Exhaust Manifold Gasket Leak

[Ras12]

I am 95% sure that I have an exhaust manifold gasket leak. When I start the car in the morning I hear a loud ticking coming from the manifold area. The faster I go the faster the ticking noise but as the engine heats is isn't as loud and lessens quite a bit.

I know I have to replace them but don't want to get into the project now, not drive the car in good weather and not be able to finish it due to work, kids, etc. I rather do it in the winter when I don't drive the car. Are there any negatives to driving the car like this? I don't believe Driving like this will damage the engine or car, correct?

[Ron]

Ticks have a habit of growing ;-)

Depending on exactly where it is, nearby parts might be damaged (hoses, wires, etc). Hot exhaust gases can cut grooves in the manifold or head (it's aluminum). IF you get a fuel leak too, you are going to have a bad day.
It's a gamble I would avoid if possible...

[jmettee]

Are you sure it's not a valve tick & time for a valve adjustment? I've heard valve slack quiet down as the engine warms up, but I think the exhaust leaks I've heard generally stay the same intensity.

Problem with exhaust manifold gasket replacement is a good chance of having issues with shearing off mounting studs. Most people have headaches with this & very few have them easily come out (like I was lucky enough to have happen to me)

[AugustneverEnds]

Taking the exhaust manifold off SUCKS!!! :angry0: With the cylinder head being aluminum, the manifold being cast iron and the studs steel, it all fuses together and the odds you have getting them off with out any studs snapping is close to the odds for winning the lottery. All I can recommend is spraying them with your favorite penetrant for as long as you can before you attempt removal and be as patient as possible. Also there is a decent chance the manifold is not level anymore and you will need a machine shop to skim a bit off to correct it.

PJ Grady sells a nice one piece stainless steel manifold gasket and SpecialT also sells individual gaskets made of stainless.

[Jonathan]

The noise coming from an exhaust manifold gasket leak is pretty unique. Have a look/listen to this video I did of my car before I got the gaskets replaced:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUA_4UB_Yms&feature=youtu.be

I have an after video too to show the difference, but it's taking a long time to upload for some reason so I'll see about finding time to do that for you this weekend.

I have heard people say that this is a 4-6 hour job and an extra 1-2 hours for every stud you snap. I got "lucky" as Justin mentioned and didn't snap any studs. However, my consolation prize was that two of the holes were in bad shape from someone before me that got working on it. I had taken this job to a mechanic and I'm glad I did. I don't have a lift, specialty tools nor the patience or expertise to have handled what was necessary to make it right. To each his own, but this was one job I was glad to drop off and come get later when it was finished.

You can also look for leaks on your car by seeing if there is any black looking soot coming from a corner of one of the cylinders. It won't be spraying through the air when you look, but might show signs of it being in a outward pattern from one or more corners where the existing gasket is/should be.

[vps3922]

PJ Grady sells a nice one piece stainless steel manifold gasket and SpecialT also sells individual gaskets made of stainless.

OR: you wait and save up a bit and get a stage I, like I did. I had an exhaust manifold gasket leak and decided to use the opportunity to upgrade to stage I at the same time.

You can still drive with it, but like Ron said: check out where it is and it can actually grow. But it should be fine unless you plan a cross country trip. I drove a few hundred miles with my leak until I was able to afford the stage I.

[gulwng3]

OR: you wait and save up a bit and get a stage I, like I did. I had an exhaust manifold gasket leak and decided to use the opportunity to upgrade to stage I at the same time.

You can still drive with it, but like Ron said: check out where it is and it can actually grow. But it should be fine unless you plan a cross country trip. I drove a few hundred miles with my leak until I was able to afford the stage I.

+1 Same story for me. It was going to cost half the price for a Stage I to get the exhaust fixed (by a professional DMC mechanic - not me!) so I just upgraded to the Stage I. Worth every penny.

Andy

[Ras12]

-Jonathan's video is exactly what mine sounds like!! It is only coming from the drivers side as well. I will do a little more looking this weekend but I am sure that is the problem. I really don't want to tackle this problem because it may take too much time and I don't want to screw things up when I break off a stud and become impatient. Ha! Time wise I wonder if this is something Grady could do on a Saturday. Start at 8am and finish that evening then drive home. That would be fantastic!!

[David T]

-Jonathan's video is exactly what mine sounds like!! It is only coming from the drivers side as well. I will do a little more looking this weekend but I am sure that is the problem. I really don't want to tackle this problem because it may take too much time and I don't want to screw things up when I break off a stud and become impatient. Ha! Time wise I wonder if this is something Grady could do on a Saturday. Start at 8am and finish that evening then drive home. That would be fantastic!!

Driving on an exhaust gasket leak you don't do much damage except the noise (and it tends to get worse over time). Over a long period of time you may warp the manifold but it can be ground flat. The big thing about doing the exhaust manifold is you are going to break studs unless you heat the nuts up to cherry red before you attempt to remove them. Once you get it all apart you should replace the nuts and studs and of course the gaskets. Check the manifold for flatness and if necessary have it ground flat or it will leak again soon. To get the nuts that hot you have to use an Oxy-Acetalyne torch. A real fun job!

[DMC5180]

-Jonathan's video is exactly what mine sounds like!! It is only coming from the drivers side as well. I will do a little more looking this weekend but I am sure that is the problem. I really don't want to tackle this problem because it may take too much time and I don't want to screw things up when I break off a stud and become impatient. Ha! Time wise I wonder if this is something Grady could do on a Saturday. Start at 8am and finish that evening then drive home. That would be fantastic!!

I'd be really surprised if you could get it done on a Saturday, but you can always ask.

[DMC Fanatic]

I had my exhaust manifold gaskets replaced by Rob Grady and it ended up taking a few days because of the broken studs. Chances are he'll tell you to leave the car there for a few days.

[Jonathan]

Here is the after video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPhH_NowHh8&list=UU3swtBcojBiuREerJ2GauXw

I took mine to a local guy and not Grady, but I also left it with him for a couple days. It is a job you could get done in one day, but I didn't want to make the guy feel like he needed to rush if he had to tackle a broken stud or something else.

My opinion on spending the extra money on the Stage 1 isn't about what a Stage 1 upgrade is like or what it isn't, it's just about spending extra money you weren't planning on. It's only a deal/good investment if that's what you wanted in the first place. Light bulb replacements usually come in packs of two yet I only ever seem to need one when I go buy a pack. So I spent $5 for two when I only really needed to spend $2.50. It might come in handy later, but initially it represents money that's just taking space up on a shelf or in a box instead of in my account. If you want a new TV and it is $500 for the one you want, the salesman might tell you about an even better TV that is $1,000 AND they throw in this nice Bluray player with it. You did get a better TV and a new Bluray player, but you just spent twice as much as you intended to. Kind of like buying the 5 gallon jug of pickles at Costco to some degree, when you only really needed the small size. Get what you need first otherwise some of these things are just bleeding your checking account. Like I said, just my opinion, and not really something that's solely about cars.

[mluder]

A lot of the time required depends on the state of your car.

In my case I was able to remove all but one stud with relative ease. Soaked them for a few days with PB Blaster or similar penetrating oil. The one I broke off was my fault and even then I was able to get it out with a left handed drill bit and an extractor.

The nuts that gave me the most trouble were the manifold to crossover pipe. The restricted access coupled with rust made a couple nearly impossible. In the end the method that worked best was heating them with a torch to red hot... you CAN do this with a hand held propane torch - you don't need an oxy-acetylene torch. Also, buy one of those protective mats that plumbers use when they solder. You can use it to protect areas you don't want to melt. Once you get them red hot spray some penetrating oil on them - I prefer PB Blaster. The heat will cause the oil to get sucked up into the thread. Do this a couple of times and let it soak. I then used an impact driver to get the nuts off. This same method can be applied to the suds if they're giving you grief.

You can do it in a weekend if you're relatively handy. In the end if you do the work yourself it's significantly cheaper than upgrading to a Stage I for obvious reasons. Believe me I weighed that choice heavily. That being said if you're going to have a shop do it there will be a min. labor charge plus any time removing any broken bolts. Most shops aren't used to dealing with this sort of thing unless they specialize in older cars and then you usually pay a premium for their services/knowledge.

[Lightning]

Eddie did mine due to a leak, even after using penetrating oil on the car for 3 months, sprayed 2x a week and not driven, we still had bolts snap. I ended up with him drilling and rethreading. I grabbed Hervey's exhaust kit. Oddly enough, both mine and Sherry's car had inside damage on the passenger side in the same areas and we're both missing the same bolt (might have been 2 bolts) so expect to take it off and need to remachine the inside mounting side to have a new flat surface.

[Szabi]

I have got new exhaust manifold gaskets from Delorean Europe, and if you look at the 3 gaskets on below picture, 2 of the gaskets have (steel?) rings in the middle, and the thickness of the gaskets is around 1.7 mm. The middle one does not have the ring and its thickness is 1.4 mm. Ok, I am not an expert and this is the first time I see a manifold gasket, so I asked the seller if this will not cause any problems. The answer is that they do not understand what the problem is...
I am asking the experts here: would you build this in your car?
30147

[martiq]

Sounds like you will have to explain the problem once again to Ed. I got gaskets from delorean.eu six weeks ago. they were all identical with the ring edge.

[Lightning]

For the normal engine, not having the ring should be ok, it just won't guarantee the best possible seal. The ring helps seal the gasket when everything is tightened down. On my turbo upgrade we did the ring gaskets as it guarantees the best seal as you don't want leaks on a turbo.

[vps3922]

My Stage I was done by John from DMC NW in half a day. All studs came out fine and none broke. That's why it did not take a lot of time. The reason why I got the stage one was due to a talk with Toby Peterson.
He said that it can happen that studs break and digging them out can be a pain. I planned to get this done by DMC NW and not do it myself as they have the proper tools and experience. He said that the bill can easily rake up labor costs to over $1k if they get problems with the studs, and maybe not only with one. The stage I includes installation costs and it dies not matter if they have to dig every stud out or not and if it takes half or a full day. He therefore recommended, if I want the optimized stainless steel exhaust system with stainless steel gaskets in the future anyway, that I should rather rake up another $1k and get the stage I than only get the gaskets replaced.

I liked the idea of an exhaust system made out of stainless steel and optimized exhaust flow, which removes the necessity of a crossover and reduces the heat in the engine compartment. And hey, nobody is opposed to 18-20 HP of added thrust. :wink:
I was, however, a bit suprised about the sudden sporty sound from the car. I was used to a much more silent driving experience. But I got used to it. Finally it sounds like a sports car.:D

[opethmike]

There's no way stage 1 or spec 1 add 20 horsepower, but I do agree that the sound improvement is huge, and nearly mandatory in my book. The stock setup, even when in good shape, sounds like an asthmatic lawnmower.

When I did mine, all of my manifold studs and nuts came out easy. Even the one for the manifold to cross-over pipe. What gave me a HUGE headache was the catalytic converter. Every single bolt there snapped, and the force sent my hand flying into various painful bits of car.

[Ras12]

Any advice for the "weekend do it yourself'er" on this type of job? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[DMCMW Dave]

Any advice for the "weekend do it yourself'er" on this type of job? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Beg borrow or rent a real acetylene torch. And some lessons on how to heat up the nuts without setting the car on fire if you've never used one.

[Dangermouse]

Does a plumbing propane torch just not get hot enough Dave?

[DMCMW Dave]

Does a plumbing propane torch just not get hot enough Dave?

It might eventually, but when I'm dealing with a 36 of them 10 minutes each vs. 30 seconds each is a big deal. Also it heats the nuts so fast that there is a but of thermal shock between the nut and stud, which helps with getting them to break loose.

[mluder]

Does a plumbing propane torch just not get hot enough Dave?

I used a plumbing propane torch on the stuck crossover nuts. It worked fine but it did take a lot of time and persuasion.

[iflights]

Bringing back an old thread on the subject.

Couple of questions for the experts here:

1. I only have a problem with the gasket on the left side. Question: Should I just replace both sides?

2. Is there a better manifold solution I should consider than just putting the original manifolds back on? Perhaps an improved manifold I can mate to my existing exhaust system?

Thanks

[Chris 16409]

I picked up a set of these on RockAuto. For $5 you get 6 pieces to do the both sides of the engine:

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1440145,parttype,5400

As far as I know FEL-PRO is a reputable gasket supplier.

[mluder]

Bringing back an old thread on the subject.

Couple of questions for the experts here:

1. I only have a problem with the gasket on the left side. Question: Should I just replace both sides?

2. Is there a better manifold solution I should consider than just putting the original manifolds back on? Perhaps an improved manifold I can mate to my existing exhaust system?

Thanks

1. Typically speaking, if the car has more than one of something, it's always best to all of it since you're into it already. If you had all original fuel lines and one was leaking you wouldn't just replace the bad one... It's only a matter of time before the other one goes.

2. Don't quote me on this but I believe Josh at DeLorean Performance Industries has a set of upgraded replacement manifolds that mate with the factory crossover pipe.
<EDIT> ype... Here you go... http://www.deloreanindustries.com/exhaust-manifold-kit-stainless-factory-connect/

Cheers
Steven

[DMCVegas]

It might eventually, but when I'm dealing with a 36 of them 10 minutes each vs. 30 seconds each is a big deal. Also it heats the nuts so fast that there is a but of thermal shock between the nut and stud, which helps with getting them to break loose.

What about an Oxy/Mapp torch? I know that Propane is around 3,600 degrees where Acetylene is about 6,300. But the Oxy/Mapp torch for less than $100 gets about 5,300 degrees. It's also supposed to be safer to use.

[iflights]

1. Typically speaking, if the car has more than one of something, it's always best to all of it since you're into it already. If you had all original fuel lines and one was leaking you wouldn't just replace the bad one... It's only a matter of time before the other one goes.

2. Don't quote me on this but I believe Josh at DeLorean Performance Industries has a set of upgraded replacement manifolds that mate with the factory crossover pipe.
<EDIT> ype... Here you go... http://www.deloreanindustries.com/exhaust-manifold-kit-stainless-factory-connect/

Cheers
Steven

Thanks Steve, exactly the option I was hoping to find.

[David T]

Thanks Steve, exactly the option I was hoping to find.

I don't know about Oxy/Mapp being any safer than Oxy/Acetalyne. As for "better" PJ Grady sells a set of studs and nuts made out of S/S that should be easier to remove in the future if you ever have to do that job again. At least use Never-Seize when you reassemble. If the manifolds are not flat you need to have them ground flat or the gaskets will not last.