Wanted WTB Late '81 Gray 5-speed [Archive] - DMCTalk Forum

View Full Version : Wanted WTB Late '81 Gray 5-speed

nirvanaman

09-05-2014, 12:54 PM

Hey all,

New here. A DeLorean has long been on my "must have someday" list, and I am thinking about pulling the trigger on a local car here in L.A. I am looking for a really nice condition car or one that has been restored. It will be an occasional driver, I have a few other cars and motorcycles as well. The car I am looking at supposedly only has 1600 original miles on it. The pics of it look like the car is in nearly new condition. Seller claims replacing the fuel pump, belts, hoses etc and that everything in the vehicle (including A/C and electric) works. Looks like the only thing it needs is tires. No frame rust (no rust that I can see at all) and no dings in the stainless.

The seller wants $34,000. Looking around here and ebay, that seems like it might be too high. Just wanted to get some thoughts from the expert folks on here. I am concerned that the vehicle is not driven often, but he said they do take it around the block, though the car is primarily a museum piece at the moment.

Thanks!

Mark D

09-05-2014, 02:11 PM

Hey first off, welcome to the forum!

It's tough to put a number on the car you're describing without seeing a few photos. At that price point the car should be cosmetically perfect with no flaws in the interior, stainless, painted fascias, black trim parts, etc. It should also be in top mechanical condition with good documentation of recent service or restoration. Mileage is not always the best indicator of condition since some low milage cars have been well stored and taken care of while others have sat in the elements and deteriorated away. If the tires need replacing I'd start with taking a grand off the price right there. The only benefit of knowing the tires need replacing is that you can chose your perferred tire after the sale rather than settling with a car with new tires that may be bargain brand/low quality.

If you are anywhere near DMCCA it might be worth having them do a pre-purchase inspection...I think the cost is a few hunded bucks, but it would be well worth it to know for sure what you're getting into before writing a check for 34k. They should be able to give you an idea if the car will be needing any service in the near future or if there are any obvious flaws that would make you want to lower your price with the seller. A few hundred spent may save you thousands.

Or if you can get some good pictures and post them here we can give you some better help and pick out any issues there might be. There are also plenty of owners in CA that might be willing to go take a look at the car with you.

34k is the top end of the market for a privately sold car so you should expect nothing but the best. If you branch out to looking at cars for sale from DMCH affiliated dealers or DPI you can definiately exceed that price in a hurry, but you should still get an excellent car for that price from a dealer.

nirvanaman

09-05-2014, 02:26 PM

Hey thanks Mark.

Here is a link to the former listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291230121348?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

There are a bunch of pics on there. Appreciate the help! I was looking to have DMC Huntington Beach take a look, only issue is that the car is registered non-operational so the car would need to be trailered down (I have a Lightning that I could tow it with, but no trailer).

DavidProehl

09-05-2014, 02:49 PM

Looks like a very nice car from the eBay pictures, but as Mark said, for 34k everything better be perfect. That is a no compromises price. I would want to ensure the stainless is perfect without any scratches or dents and that the car is as mechanically sound as possible. It should either be 100% reliable or 100% original. It doesn't look 100% original since it at least has a stainless coolant tank and is missing the throttle shield, so make sure everything else has also been gone over.

I see in one of the eBay photos it looks like there are jumper cables attached. That, along with the mileage, suggests the car isn't run or driven often. If it isn't run often the owner likely can't speak to how reliable and sound the mechanicals are. The seller will tell you it runs and he has never had problems, but he also hasn't driven it. Sure it runs, but can it handle 2,000 miles a year? Or a 200-300 mile drive?

Get the service history as Mark suggested. You'll want to see that brakes (rebuilt calipers), clutch hydraulics (new master/slave & line), A/C (new seals & hoses), cooling (new hoses & radiator), and engine (plugs & cap, seals/gaskets), have all had major tune up work done. For this price if you intend to drive it, there shouldn't be any 30 year old rubber on the car. It may have been done, just hard to tell from the pictures.

Rich

09-05-2014, 05:33 PM

Seller claims replacing the fuel pump, belts, hoses etc and that everything in the vehicle (including A/C and electric) works. Looks like the only thing it needs is tires. No frame rust (no rust that I can see at all) and no dings in the stainless.

The seller wants $34,000. Looking around here and ebay, that seems like it might be too high. Just wanted to get some thoughts from the expert folks on here. I am concerned that the vehicle is not driven often, but he said they do take it around the block, though the car is primarily a museum piece at the moment.

Interesting specimen. Highly original-looking, which can be good.

Additional to the good comments already make an allowance of $500-800 to replace all of the headliner material depending on who does it.

In two photos (#5 and #7) we see that the driver door headliner is shot. So you can assume they are all bad. Even sitting indoors an original set of headliners won't last forever.

Have a real good look at the front fascia to understand what you have there. While there are 3 pics of it on the expired listing I cannot tell whether it has a light case of eyebrows on it or not. Need a low 3/4 side shot - or a look-see - to rule it out. Repair isn't too costly in any case.

Toss in $500-800 for all of the cooling hoses to be replaced unless they've done that some time recently.

As David and Mark say, look for records. They might have recently done lots of things but if the car ever went more than 3 years at a time without coolant change, brake fluid flush/fill, clutch flush/fill then there are perhaps hidden demons in terms of corrosion/pitting/leakage/seizing. All of it is repairable and, aside from the heater core and clutch slave, not hard for your mechanic or you to access.

Depending on what you're looking for and what else is out there for you to buy you can come to your own conclusion about a fair price.

refugeefromcalif

09-05-2014, 05:40 PM

+1 to all the above, and Welcome to the forum!
One other thing I noticed, the eBay listing states it's a 1982 but, the VIN should be for a 1981 car.?

George

Jonathan

09-05-2014, 08:19 PM

Door straps?
Cargo net?

Coolant reservoir has the cap in a position I have not seen before (most of the SS ones I have seen it is closer to the front end of the car. Not that this matters, just noting it).

Trunk area photos showing spare, carpet board?
Fuse and relay area photo?

+1 on recalls perhaps not being completed.

Looks nice though. Not one thing looks tragic, but will require work as others have mentioned. Battery tender and flat tire tell you that among other things. Doesn't mean it's a bad car. It just means it doesn't command a $34k price tag. Assuming what has been mentioned here is the case and not much more, I would put it more at $22k - $25k. I say that wishing the cars would get more than this, but they don't unfortunately.

Mark D

09-05-2014, 08:39 PM

I finally got a chance to look at the ebay listing. I think what the seller is asking is in the ball park for the condition the car is in, at least from what is shown in the photos.

The interior is a 10/10 as far as i'm concerned.....It looks to have been stored in such a way that preserved the leather/vinyl pieces extremely well. The headliners are sagging but it is not a huge issue. I think at this point the foam they used in the headliner material is way beyond the expected lifespan and to find a car that has pristine original headliners would be pretty unlikely and amazing. It's something you can use as a bargaining chip though to knock some dollars off your offer since it is an expense that you'll be looking at shortly down the road. The seat leathers and all the vinyl interior pieces are in immaculate shape and definitely reflect the low mileage shown. DeLoreans are known to have the speedometer cable drive fail due to the angle drive at the driver's front wheel, so often times a car may have been driven for thousands of miles with an inoperable speedo/odometer. I don't think this is the case with this car at all, and the mileage appears to be actual.

The frame looks excellent as well...basically no rust to speak of, and there don't appear to be fluid leaks either which is very promising. With the exception of the stainless coolant overflow bottle in the engine it also looks to be very original. All of the yellow plating on the various brackets is in great shape which means this car probably hasn't seen much rain in its lifetime. The fuel lines, coolant hoses and belts look original which you may want to consider updating in the future since rubber parts don't usually age well. Depending on how many miles you're looking to put on the car you may not need to do these things for a while since the car looks to have been stored very well.

The tires look like the original Goodyear NCT's that came with the car also. I'd be cautious about driving long distance anywhere especially at high speed. Very few owners still run original tires but there are still some out there that do. If you're going to be putting on limited miles and want to keep them original just be sure to inspect them often for signs of cracking and dry rotting. Otherwise new tires would probably be a good investment if you are planning on lots of usage.

The next step would be to get as much information as possible on any work that has been done to the car and if there has been routine flushes of the coolant, brake, clutch and transmission fluids. If the car is running and driving fine currently than you shouldn't have to be too concerned with fuel system issues which is a major concern for cars that have sat for long periods of time without use. Try to find out as much history about the car prior to the current owner purchasing it, find out what has already been done to it to bring it back out of hibernation to get it where it is today.

Overall this is a really great looking car. If it's as mechanically as good as it looks then I'd be all over this one trying to see what I could do to get the price down a bit. It's hard to imagine finding a better car out there with lower miles that isn't in a museum. This car just needs a good detailing and it would probably be right at home in one. It's to the level where I might actually feel bad about driving it more than occasionally since it really is a beautiful example.

Are you looking at this from an investment standpoint or are you just looking to have fun driving the car? This car has got to be in the top 5% so if you are going to be racking up miles and putting a lot of wear and tear on it you may want to even consider finding something in more 'driver' condition that won't be devalued with lots of use. If you buy this car and put 50,000 miles on it in the next 5 years and then go to resell it you may be looking at a loss of 7-10k, especially if the interior and other parts start to show visible wear. Otherwise if you're just looking for a weekend fun car and if you drive it on nice days and only put on a few thousand miles if you get sick of it in 5 years this car will still hold a lot of value if it's maintained in its current condition.

Great find and thanks for sharing, it's great to see cars like this so well preserved. Best of luck too with the sale if you decide to go forward on it. Keep us all posted as you find out more details!

nirvanaman

09-06-2014, 12:30 AM

You know, I have had a a number of interesting cars in my life. I would argue to say, most of them were interesting. At least they were to me. And each time, I would find an online community to share and gain insights and support. Grabbed a beer or 2 with a few of them over the years as well. I gotta say, the level of detail that you guys have gone into here, for a n00b and complete stranger is impressive and humbling.

Thank you all so much. Though I have been a fan of the car most of my life, this detailed analysis is brand new to me, so I appreciate all the insights you guys are sharing. You are awesome. Great board, great community.

To answer a few questions above, the owner did mention that the fabric on the drivers door headliner has separated and needs to be re-glued. He did state all belts and hoses were replaced, but sounds like I need to get some proof of that. In terms of my interest, I definitely want to drive the car. But it will not be a daily driver for me. I have a number of cars and this would add to the fleet. Imagine I would drive it a few times a month, prolly less than 1,000 miles a year, based on some of my other non-daily-drivers. It would be treated quite gingerly and preserved, though my garage is not a heated/air conditioned space (wish it was!). Hope not to lose big cash on it. Was really looking more for a $25,000 or so driver that could put a bit of cash into restoring, but this one popped up and piqued my interest.

Jonathan

09-06-2014, 07:27 AM

Glad you've got a good feeling about the car and the forum/community. Agreed on getting together with other owners for a beer or two. Funny how you put people together from every possible walk of life and description and with one common interest, none of those other differences matter. You'll see that in person for certain at a local event if you get to one, and especially the big ones like at DCS.

A thought came to mind when you said how you'd like to drive it a couple times per month and 1,000 miles per year type thing. One way to look at buying these cars might be to figure out how much you intend on driving the car, and then go shopping for one where the current owner drives it at least that amount or more, but not less.

You know what I mean?

If you want to drive it only once in a while, then find one where the current owner only drives it once and a while.
If you want to drive it every weekend, find one that is currently driven every weekend.
If you want to drive it daily, find one which is a daily driver for the current owner.
If you want to drive it all across the country every summer, find one that is already doing that.

You can definitely make a new to you car purchase work if you want to buy one that is driven less now than you want to drive it, but it will come with some extra work and perhaps surprises (to your enthusiasm and wallet). A car that only gets started and revved up in the garage a couple times per season can still be driven every weekend, but will require a fair bit of work to get it there.

That's all I was trying to capture with that thought. If you want to play it the safest, seek out a car that is proven to do more currently than you intend on doing with it yourself. The proving piece can be the toughest part, but can give you some insight as to what questions to ask when you go look at it.

nirvanaman

09-08-2014, 12:55 AM

mr2nut123

09-08-2014, 09:52 AM

All those faults, no receipts? There are cars in better condition for $22-25k

Jonathan

09-08-2014, 10:43 AM

OK so I got to check out the car today. No surprise, but not quite as flawless as the seller purported. Overall, looks like a very nice original car but there are a few concerns. Primarily, still, is the issue with the car not being driven. Additionally, the driver side window and electric mirror do not work. The A/C blows, but is not cold. Could be low or out of coolant. The car started, after a bit of hesitation. Idled around 850, but a bit rough. Not sure if that is normal. Hood release is broken, looks like an easy fix but I couldn't check under it as a result. Interior in good shape overall, leather is dry and could use conditioning but no cracks. Found both door straps and the cargo net.

The not being driven part is going to be the biggest thing that takes the car down from a $34k car to something less than that. It might not be any one thing that has now failed from sitting there, but will likely be an accumulation of things that add up. Find out if you can when it was last registered (or owned by someone that did register it for the roads) and then working backwards from $34k, subtract $1k for every year since that point. As an approximation of course.

If you go back to check it again, find out if the compressor clutch is clacking in when you turn on the A/C. You might just be feeling the air blowing by you from the vents and it isn't really cooling at all. Take a temperature gun with you if you want to measure it at the vents. The compressor won't come on if the Freon is low or gone, it's not supposed to anyway.

I may have missed whether this car has a gas flap or not, but getting the trunk cable resolved is fairly important. It can be relatively simple, but that's generally once you're already in the trunk and not if you have to Jimmy it open. It can be done, just be careful not to break anything in the process.

Not sure how big a deal this is, but there was a lot of surface rust on the car, especially on the hood.

30595 30596

Very few of the other photos are big cause for concern, like the weatherstriping being not quite right, etc. They aren't big ticket items unless they are indicating something else. It didn't look that way to me though and I see very few rusty fittings or screws or bolt heads, save the waistline of the alternator (but that could be from something unrelated).

This "rust" on the hood is not a good sign. I would find out more about this, especially what exactly it is. If it's just dirt of some kind and that can be cleaned off, then okay. If it is rust, then what that likely means is that some previous caretaker person for this guy's car collection might have tried to shine it up with steel wool. If that has happened, it's left tiny pieces of the steel in the stainless and it is those little pieces that are rusting. I don't know what the solution to that is though in terms of cleaning as opposed to replacing.

Assorted other pics. No service records, but did speak with their mechanic. Fuel system lines replaced he said, oil changed. Not much else from the sound of it. One of the tires was nearly flat so I couldn't drive it. Owner has never registered it for the roads. He apparently has something like a 45 car collection, mostly Porsches and Ferraris and the like.

Would love to get everyone's thoughts. At this point I'm thinking this is not a $34,000 car.

Again with the never driven it part. This kills the car's value in most cases as our cars don't have much of a market as show pieces only. Maybe years from now they will. As others said, not $34k, but somewhere in the low 20s at best.

mr2nut123

09-08-2014, 10:47 AM

As others said, not $34k, but somewhere in the low 20s at best.

I just thought I'd capitalise some key words in this guys accurate post. I would be offering no more than $20,000 in its current state, there are cars for just a tad more in far better condition with all the assurances with regards to regular running and paperwork.

DavidProehl

09-08-2014, 11:12 AM

somewhere in the low 20s at best.

I agree with 99% of Jonathan's assessment, however I think low to mid 20s would be a fair price for the right buyer. Some buyers highly value low mileage cars. This car is in great shape, for a buyer who values low miles paying above 20k doesn't seem out of line.

Since it has sat for so long, leaking oil, and has no records 34k is way out of line.

DMCMW Dave

09-08-2014, 11:31 AM

Try to clean the surface rust off with a blending pad. If there are pits underneath the rust, it just got a whole lot more expensive. They can be worked out but the cost will approach the value of a good used panel.

You'll need all 4 headliners. The center ones don't sag like the doors as the edges hold them up, but I can guarantee they are loose.

Mark D

09-08-2014, 11:55 AM

Great attention to detail when you were there taking photos...It definitely gives a more accurate picture of the car than the Ebay listing.

I think the other guys commenting in this thread hit most of the points I was going to make... If you can get the seller down to a more realistic range (somewhere in the low/mid 20's) I think this car has still has a lot going for it that some other DeLoreans don't. Most of the cosmetic issues you pointed out seem pretty minor and can be fixed with reasonable cost. On the plus side, all those visible flaws should be a good way for you to talk the seller down from his unrealistic price. Somtimes it's harder to convince a seller that lack of documentation is a reason to drop the asking price compared to pointing out obvious flaws that they can see. After a really good cleaning this car will shine up to look much better than it does covered in a layer of dirt and dust so you've got that on your side as well.

If you have any other photos of the interior it would be interesting to see, because my original 10/10 statement doesn't seem to be completely accurate. Hopefully the only issue was the cracked ash tray, but you also want to be on the lookout for any discoloring of the dash/binnacle/glove box lid/knee pads. Sun exposure will usually start to turn these parts brown. Hairline cracks in the binnacle typically start to form in the middle where it meets up with the dash. The dash itself may start to crack if it's really dried out...usually this happens first near the punched out speaker grille openings on each end. Some of the interior parts are no longer available and reproductions don't always exactly have the same quality or feel as the originals. Dying/replacing interior parts is also a pretty big undertaking since usually if you want everything to match color you'll end up redying just about everthing. If this car really does have a pristine interior that is a huge plus that should make it stand out among your other options.

The other cosmetic plus is the condition of all the fasteners, clamps, brackets, etc. In humid and rainy areas these parts all rust and discolor pretty quickly, so finding an original car with shiny bright yellow brackets, silvery clamps, and non rusty bolt heads adds a lot to the cosmetic appeal of the car. Working on a non-rusty car is also a lot more enjoyable than struggling with rusty nuts and bols. These parts can all be replated or replaced but they can only be original once. If I had to guess on the belts and hoses I'd still say they are original. Or if they were replaced as the seller is claiming they would have been replaced with NOS parts and not parts. The clamps look factory original but it's possible if hoses were replaced the clamps could have been reused. Without documentation proving if/when something has been replaced you usually have to assume that it hasn't.

The two biggest issues I'd be concerned about are the rusting stainless panels and unknown service history. If you're still seriously considering this car I'd have the seller put some air in the tires so you can test drive it and see how it runs and drives. Engine, brakes, clutch, cooling system, electrical system, etc can have issues you'll notice only when driving. Even in the mid 20k range you should be getting a car where nearly everything works correctly and the car isn't going to leave you stranded. I would insist on having a local shop do a mechanical inpection. They may be able to find date codes on the hoses and belts to verify what the seller is telling you. You may also want to track down that previous owner listed on the DOA membership sheet and see if you can get more information from him. I'd follow Dave's advice in regards to the stainless rust. It may not be a big issue, or it could be a deal breaker if there is deeper corrosion.

Glad you're enjoying the forum so far and hopefully you're finding answers to other questions you may have in some of the other threads that are out there. You may run across a few threads where there is drama between a few owers but in general this place really is about helping eachother out. It has made a positive difference in my ownership experience and hopefully you'll find it does the same for you too.

nirvanaman

09-08-2014, 04:04 PM

Great feedback all. Appreciate the help. I went back to the seller with my thoughts. No response yet. :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nirvanaman

09-09-2014, 08:55 PM

So the owner says he has another cash offer for $30,000. I encouraged him to take it, my search continues. Thanks again to all for the great insights and detailed help.

alexwolf1216

09-09-2014, 09:30 PM

So the owner says he has another cash offer for $30,000. I encouraged him to take it, my search continues. Thanks again to all for the great insights and detailed help.

If I were him, I would grab that and run like the wind.

mr2nut123

09-10-2014, 07:44 AM

If I were him, I would grab that and run like the wind.

lol, you're not wrong there! Either he's bluffing (most likely) or there are some moronic people in this world..

The first thing I'd do with any car purchase is check the forums for a few days minimum.

ssaleen

10-05-2014, 07:15 PM

Are you still looking for a Delorean? I have a late 81 with perfect grey interior I was really thinkin about sellin:(