Why EFI?

[Redsquall]

What are the main reasons to going EFI?

[AugustneverEnds]

I'm not an expert on this subject by any means but from my perspective the top reason for converting to an EFI set-up are to eliminate some K-Jet parts (accumulator, fuel distributor, frequency valve) which lessens the likelihood of suffering hot and cold start problems. Some of these items are getting more difficult to obtain over time. From a performance view EFI allows for adjustments to be made more easily (running software as opposed to manually adjusting and swapping parts)

Several members here have already performed EFI swaps, Opethmike and Spittybug readily come to mind. Read their threads to gain some valuable insights. Oh and welcome to the forum :wave2:

[dn010]

I went to EFI because I wanted updated technology as well as the updated even-fire PRV version of the engine which I guess isn't a requirement since you can add EFI to the original engine. But IMO, the even-fire runs extremely smooth compared to the original engine. I also like the fact that you can manipulate settings easily with EFI. Parts are cheaper because you don't have to get DeLorean specific stuff, it is just getting over the expense of installation that you need to get over. I didn't have many issues with K-Jet in my 13 years of ownership, so that was not a main reason for me but it was nice to get rid of that stuff to be truthful...

[Jonathan]

My car is still the stock k-jet. I have not had really any big problems with it and have never given much thought to going EFI.

And maybe that's really all it boils down to for some. If you've had problems with your k-jet system, you might start looking for alternatives. The system does not take well to having old gas sit in it for long periods of time.

That's not the only reason there can be problems, but a car without a history of gummed up fuel components will fair better than one that has. This might be from more of a reliability point of view than a performance one.

The even fire/odd fire thing mentioned is more performance minded than reliability, right? Or a bit of both?

[Bitsyncmaster]

My car is still the stock k-jet. I have not had really any big problems with it and have never given much thought to going EFI.

And maybe that's really all it boils down to for some. If you've had problems with your k-jet system, you might start looking for alternatives. The system does not take well to having old gas sit in it for long periods of time.

That's not the only reason there can be problems, but a car without a history of gummed up fuel components will fair better than one that has. This might be from more of a reliability point of view than a performance one.

The even fire/odd fire thing mentioned is more performance minded than reliability, right? Or a bit of both?

+1
I think the main reason is the engine is giving the owner problems. My K-jet also works very well so I don't have another reason to go EFI. I may do it someday for the following reason.

Some owners like the challenge and like to tinker with going EFI.

[dn010]

Even/odd fire is a matter of preference I guess. I had the odd-fire original DeLorean engine, and then I had a Volvo 780 Bertone with the even-fire version. I enjoyed that there was no "rock&roll" with the Volvo and my D's engine vibrated away. As far as performance, I believe there is somewhat of a gain with the even-fire version, but it is not a vast amount so the conversion may not be done for performance reasons alone. As far as reliability, any system that has not been taken care of will not be reliable (Although, K-Jet may be more sensitive to lack of maintenance). My K-Jet was reliable, and so is my EFI. It was easy for me: I didn't have to blow a massive amount of money doing the conversion. As stated, I already had the Even-Fire version of the engine so all it was, was a matter of swapping the crank cases and purchasing the MS system&EDIS.

[DMCMW Dave]

Odd vs Even fire is a bit of a red herring in this discussion - it doesn't have anything do to with using EFI per se, but rather the lack of ability of certain EFI controllers (Megasquirt in particular) to run odd-fire spark. There are folks running Megasquirt odd-fire but they are still using the DMC ignition distributor for spark.

There are/will be other controllers that can run odd-fire spark.

[Josh]

You can run odd fire with megasquirt. But in order to do so you need MS3, and most DMC owners are running MS2 or MS1. Also need to have a crank and cam position sensor. It is much easier to just to get your tach signal off the dizzy and run fuel only. Which eliminates k-jet which is usually the reason to go to EFI (as mentioned in other posts)

[opethmike]

I went to EFI for two reasons:

1. I wanted to tinker and see if I could accomplish the challenge.
2. I planned to (and did) upgrade my heads/cams/exhaust, and you can get a much more optimal tune (and hence power) with full control of the fueling across the power band.

Personally, I think it is much more time consuming and expensive and difficult to convert to EFI than fix an existing K-Jet issue. So personally I wouldn't do an EFI conversion as a way of avoiding K-Jet issues.

[DARCOM]

I'm much happier with EFI than the stock k jet. My k jet was clogged everywhere and the price to replace all of it was to high for me at the time. I run megasquirt 2 with extra running odd fire timing and fuel. Been running it for over 7 years and have not had any problems yet. I love ajustable performance.

[DMCMW Dave]

You can run odd fire with megasquirt. But in order to do so you need MS3, and most DMC owners are running MS2 or MS1. )

I didn't realize this. Thanks for the update. I have not messed with it for a long time.


I went to EFI for two reasons:

1. I wanted to tinker and see if I could accomplish the challenge.
2. I planned to (and did) upgrade my heads/cams/exhaust, and you can get a much more optimal tune (and hence power) with full control of the fueling across the power band.

Personally, I think it is much more time consuming and expensive and difficult to convert to EFI than fix an existing K-Jet issue. So personally I wouldn't do an EFI conversion as a way of avoiding K-Jet issues.


I'm much happier with EFI than the stock k jet. My k jet was clogged everywhere and the price to replace all of it was to high for me at the time. .

A completely agree with both of these. MS is great if you like to experiment and don't mind issues along the way, potentially want to start doing more exotic engine mods that get you out of the K-Jet range, and economically might make sense if the entire K-Jet system is junk to start with and you meet the other condition (don't mind issues along the way) as well.

[alexwolf1216]

I would actually like to do this, but it seems expensive.

[dn010]

I would actually like to do this, but it seems expensive.

Not to mention all the time worth of research (where to put sensors/triggers, wiring, tach signal, spark plugs to use, fuel/spark control methods, etc) and fabricating (trigger wheel to engine, coil pack mounting plate, distributor hole cover, etc) as well as calibration, among other things that you'll be doing.

[Jonathan]

Not to mention all the time...

You don't have to be around our DMC community for long to see someone come and go. It happens where you got into something you hadn't expected and your "live the dream" dream of driving one of these cars got delayed long enough to lose the enthusiasm and throw in the towel.

Nobody wants that on day one and it is very difficult to walk away trying to keep your head up if the dream turned to nightmare.

If anyone out there is new to these cars, or new to old cars in general, I would recommend going the route of as normal or stock as possible until you get some time and experience of ownership under your belt.

These cars can be brilliant tests of your patience and perseverance even when you're just trying to get it back into good running order like the way the factory had intended. Adding the twist of making a car driveable again while switching to EFI can put you farther over that thin line from success into failure.

Making a car run well with an engine mod is probably best left for seasoned DMC owners or others with a knack for this sort of thing. I would say that the majority would hinder their chances of enjoying owning one of these cars if they tried the modifications on their first go around.

"If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything" as the saying goes ( :) ) but knowing to only bite off as much as you can realistically handle has some value too.

[alexwolf1216]

You don't have to be around our DMC community for long to see someone come and go. It happens where you got into something you hadn't expected and your "live the dream" dream of driving one of these cars got delayed long enough to lose the enthusiasm and throw in the towel.

Nobody wants that on day one and it is very difficult to walk away trying to keep your head up if the dream turned to nightmare.

If anyone out there is new to these cars, or new to old cars in general, I would recommend going the route of as normal or stock as possible until you get some time and experience of ownership under your belt.

These cars can be brilliant tests of your patience and perseverance even when you're just trying to get it back into good running order like the way the factory had intended. Adding the twist of making a car driveable again while switching to EFI can put you farther over that thin line from success into failure.

Making a car run well with an engine mod is probably best left for seasoned DMC owners or others with a knack for this sort of thing. I would say that the majority would hinder their chances of enjoying owning one of these cars if they tried the modifications on their first go around.

"If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything" as the saying goes ( :) ) but knowing to only bite off as much as you can realistically handle has some value too.

True that.

[Josh]

You don't have to be around our DMC community for long to see someone come and go. It happens where you got into something you hadn't expected and your "live the dream" dream of driving one of these cars got delayed long enough to lose the enthusiasm and throw in the towel.

Nobody wants that on day one and it is very difficult to walk away trying to keep your head up if the dream turned to nightmare.

If anyone out there is new to these cars, or new to old cars in general, I would recommend going the route of as normal or stock as possible until you get some time and experience of ownership under your belt.

These cars can be brilliant tests of your patience and perseverance even when you're just trying to get it back into good running order like the way the factory had intended. Adding the twist of making a car driveable again while switching to EFI can put you farther over that thin line from success into failure.

Making a car run well with an engine mod is probably best left for seasoned DMC owners or others with a knack for this sort of thing. I would say that the majority would hinder their chances of enjoying owning one of these cars if they tried the modifications on their first go around.

"If you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything" as the saying goes ( :) ) but knowing to only bite off as much as you can realistically handle has some value too.

I swapped the engine right off the bat :)

[Jonathan]

I swapped the engine right off the bat :)

Haha, listen here Mr. Schattenawesome... :)

What you were able to do in your first year borders on freakish. Good freakish though. Car in rough shape, engine swap, drive it across the continent for DCS. Oh, and how about I finish my engineering degree in the meantime? Awesome, my friend, simply awesome.

I had guys in my engineering graduating class back in the day that I swear wouldn't have been able to put their bike chain back on if it fell off on their way home from class. Your resume could embarrass some of the professors much less the fellow students. Rarified air up there where you are. Good job :)

[DMCMW Dave]

This will probably piss off a few, but a drastic home-brew mod such as MS EFI has a nasty impact on re-sell-ability and probably resale value. It will decrease the resale audience if not the price. It's much more difficult to find someone who understands/appreciates/isn't afraid of the modification than not.

The value part might be debatable, but buyers by and large don't want undocumented improvements. If you built it you probably understand it, but the next guy won't understand it, won't have documentation, and will find that the number of people out there who can help solve problems is much smaller than on a stock-configuration car. An informed buyer will immediately deduct the cost of turning it back to stock from the selling price, which is a very good reason to carefully pack up all the original parts and NOT sell them off.

Even if you plan on keeping the car forever, when you do this sort of thing, please take the time to make good notes of everything you did, where you got it all, custom settings etc., put it all in a binder and hide it in the car somewhere. If nothing else when your descendants sell off the car the next owner will have a chance of maintaining it. You may even thank yourself in a few years!

[DARCOM]

I plan to be buried in mine.

[dn010]

So glad I am not alone on that one!

[DMCMW Dave]

I plan to be buried in mine.

Everybody thinks that. Your heirs will think otherwise.

[refugeefromcalif]

I plan to be buried in mine.

I need to amend my will and include this.

George

[refugeefromcalif]

Everybody thinks that. Your heirs will think otherwise.

My heirs/kids think my car is Cool but, they can't afford it's upkeep. (It'll have to be sold).

George

[Redsquall]

What Kind of performance in terms of guessinated hp are we talking? Andwhat is the cost of going EFI if a pro does it?




I'm much happier with EFI than the stock k jet. My k jet was clogged everywhere and the price to replace all of it was to high for me at the time. I run megasquirt 2 with extra running odd fire timing and fuel. Been running it for over 7 years and have not had any problems yet. I love ajustable performance.

[Redsquall]

Dave -do you guys at DMCMW deal with / install EFIs?
I agree with what you said abohut buying a modded car. Dont want to live the nightmare.

[DMCMW Dave]

Dave -do you guys at DMCMW deal with / install EFIs?
I agree with what you said abohut buying a modded car. Dont want to live the nightmare.

Not at this time.. . .

[dn010]

I believe Josh at DPI does EFI installs on stock engines.

[Flicky]

SEO Motorsports in Melbourne FL has significant experience with EFI and turbos.

Along with DPI's locations in OH and AZ, I believe they also sells their kits with PJ Grady in NY.

If you want to alter the performance of the D in any significant way while still keeping the PRV, then EFI is much easier.

Figure $6 to 8K for the conversion. By virtue of keeping in-tune easier you might get 5% performance and fuel economy increase. Add a turbo, heads, and bottom end work and you can near 300hp if your wallet can build up the rest of the drive-line. Don't forget to upgrade the brakes too.

There is also the consideration to swap out if your engine it bad into a 3.0 PRV engine from a '90 or 91 dodge monaco/eagle premier. They have EFI along with being even fire.

[Nicholas R]

SEO Motorsports in Melbourne FL has significant experience with EFI and turbos.

I'll give another +1 to SEO Motorsports; very highly recommended. Eddie has quite a few very satisfied customers with both EFI installs, EFI +turbo installs, and engine swaps. If there is something in a car that you want, Eddie can almost definitely make it happen.

[Delorean Industries]

I believe Josh at DPI does EFI installs on stock engines.

Yes. Everything in the shop minus a handle full of cars have been converted. Every car being assembled from scratch is built with efi and a even fire bottom end with 2.8 heads. This way it looks the part but also has a modern ignition system as well. The power increase is significant just by making the switch.

Installs available by appointment at our Ohio and Arizona shops. Jobber kit also available for owners wanting to do the install themselves. Proper dyno tuning is recommended as street tuning is not advised and will end in a sub par final result.

[Redsquall]

So that i can undestand the performance value, how much better would you say acceleration is?




I'm much happier with EFI than the stock k jet. My k jet was clogged everywhere and the price to replace all of it was to high for me at the time. I run megasquirt 2 with extra running odd fire timing and fuel. Been running it for over 7 years and have not had any problems yet. I love ajustable performance.

[DARCOM]

I'm not sure how to answer. My k jet never ran right and i have never been driving in another Delorean. But from what i started with its a huge improvement. Also the more i opened the exhaust and intake then tuned it ,it just got better and better.

[opethmike]

You're not really going to gain much horsepower or torque from EFI alone. Some, but nothing you'll notice. EFI will give you more reliability, better starts, and easier/more effective tuning once you do other upgrades.

[Josh]

You're not really going to gain much horsepower or torque from EFI alone. Some, but nothing you'll notice. EFI will give you more reliability, better starts, and easier/more effective tuning once you do other upgrades.

X2

[Lightning]

Besides the reliability, my driving around is 20+mpg right now in the city with an EFI+Turbo setup and I tend to run it hard so I know i'm not being fuel efficient. Eddy did my conversion and I'm loving it. The other thing I've noticed on cars that he's done for EFI is that when you press the gas it doesn't putt along then start moving, it just starts moving. I suspect that the EFI affects the HP due to not constantly flooding the cylinders with fuel too. I need to put mine on a dyno, haven't done that yet.

[SEO Motorsports]

Just to add what most of my customers main complaint it is that the K-jet is not working, failing or constantly causes them issues. EFI eliminates many of the common problems people live with being a DeLorean owner. With EFI all you have to worry about is fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel injectors, coolant temp sensor, intake air temp sensor and I install wideband o2 sensors. All of these can be checked with a laptop or basic tests your average mechanic would know. I have a customers car I'm finishing up that is EFI turbo running higher boost by his request on the stock motor and OMG it pulls like no other. The biggest thing is tuning. I easily spend over a month tuning each car so it starts, idles cruses and gets max power when requested. No engine is the same and each will have its own tune. Find your tuner before you even think about going EFI! It can easily run worse than the K-jet if you don't know what you're doing.

Sorry I have been slammed and not checking the forums much but you can email me at [email protected] with any question or concerns about going EFI. Done properly EFI is far superior over the K-jet, add a turbo and you'll have a smile on your face because it won't feel like the same car at all.

[opethmike]

It was a revelation going from my bone stock engine to heads/cams/exhaust/EFI.