BTTF Car & Carb rants***split from Auction Kings thread***

[SamHill]

Even as a carber I'm grumpy about these. I try not to be, but the time machine image is really tiresome. It's exactly like the owners of Chargers cringing at General Lee's. To think that this main gig is going to result into scores of cars being made into movie props doesn't feel like something to celebrate in the community. It doesn't move us forward at all. Others have used their time machines for charitable causes and put some money in their pockets, (both good goals) but from the perspective of someone that loves the Delorean Motor Company as a marque, it reduces important automotive history to a cartoon.

[nullset]

Even as a carber I'm grumpy about these. I try not to be, but the time machine image is really tiresome. It's exactly like the owners of Chargers cringing at General Lee's. To think that this main gig is going to result into scores of cars being made into movie props doesn't feel like something to celebrate in the community. It doesn't move us forward at all. Others have used their time machines for charitable causes and put some money in their pockets, (both good goals) but from the perspective of someone that loves the Delorean Motor Company as a marque, it reduces important automotive history to a cartoon.

No matter what you think, it is still a huge part of the car's history. Having one that's a time machine, or 100, doesn't change anything about your car.

Why do you care what others do to their cars?

--buddy

[TheDutchTexan]

It is the same of the Ford Falcon XB owners in Australia. They hate that people are swooping them up and converting them to mad max cars. Or ~1968 mustang fastback owners cringing at people with those GT500's from gone in 60 seconds. In truth it actually preserves the cars, although in a non stock form. I doubt the DeLorean would have been preserved for so long without back to the future. I would go as far as saying that they would have gone the way of the Dodo rather quick, leaving just a few collectors and die hards with them in their hands.

I for one can't wait to see your shop in person Bob. Looking forward to it!

[stevedmc]

I could care less what people do to their cars. What matters most to me is being in the community and helping each other out when possible.

For example, there is another delorean owner in Baton Rouge who has started converting his car to a BTTF replica. I have invited him to several local events and have even offered to do free work for him. He never responds. But whenever he receives a special invitation to a car show, or whenever someone from the local tv station wants to do a story on his BTTF car he gets involved.

In my opinion that is an elitist attitude and that is what bothers me. Honestly, how many BTTF replica owners do we have on here besides VideoBob? At least he is somewhat active in the community and is willing to associate with us inferior beings who drive "normal" cars.

[nullset]

In my opinion that is an elitist attitude and that is what bothers me. Honestly, how many BTTF replica owners do we have on here besides VideoBob? At least he is somewhat active in the community and is willing to associate with us inferior beings who drive "normal" cars.

I suppose I technically own a replica. It's not very good (yet), but 2930 will slowly be getting better…..

I like having my stock delorean and my replica. :)

--buddy

[uhhair]

but from the perspective of someone that loves the Delorean Motor Company as a marque, it reduces important automotive history to a cartoon.

I disagree with this, if anything the movies have cemented the Delorean as a more timeless icon if anything else. If those movies were never made, I doubt the car would be any more than an afterthought in most people's mind. The fact that almost everyone can see the car and still make a connection to it 30 years later is something that most car executives would kill for. Just because the car is in the movies doesn't reduce it to a "cartoon" as you call i, but it amplifies it's prominence in American culture.

[sdg3205]

I'd much rather see cars kept original and/or restored. When I heard Bob wanted those 3 barn cars I thought, "well there goes three more cars." Having said that, you can be sure Bob will get them running and back on the road and looking pretty darn good, and he has every right to do so.

What pissed me off was the video he posted of smashing quarter panel glass with a hammer. Go ahead and convert the cars, but please dont destroy irreplaceable pieces of the car. Keep discarded parts in the community.

[Farrar]

With folks converting an ever-larger number of cars per year to Time Machine replicas, I wonder how long it will be before the DMC-12 is outnumbered by its Hollywood counterpart, and what will happen to the value of those remaining cars as they become rarer.

Farrar

[sean]

Folks act like when a car is converted it cant be undone, well, it can be undone. Sure it may cost more to restore but it's not a total loss to come back from a BTTF conversion.

[Farrar]

I know it's not a total loss ... but the cost would be enormous. $55k for the BTTF car plus thousands in stainless repair and replacement parts ... what would it be -- $65k? $70k? That's a lot of love, and an even more lot of money. For that price you could buy a new-build from Houston with all the trimmings.

Farrar

[sdg3205]

Folks act like when a car is converted it cant be undone, well, it can be undone. Sure it may cost more to restore but it's not a total loss to come back from a BTTF conversion.

Totally, and it may even mean brining a car back from the dead or prevent it from being completely parted out. Keeps a VIN alive anyway!

[nullset]

I know it's not a total loss ... but the cost would be enormous. $55k for the BTTF car plus thousands in stainless repair and replacement parts ... what would it be -- $65k? $70k? That's a lot of love, and an even more lot of money. For that price you could buy a new-build from Houston with all the trimmings.

Farrar

If you had a time machine and wanted a stock delorean, you could probably sell it as is and buy a stock car or two..assuming it isn't trashed (see: 2930)

You could also sell off the 'time machine' parts. There's quite a market for replica props, and if they're quality, they'll fetch almost enough to buy the replacement parts.

Isn't this the same argument as modifying the car by adding a carb? I see no difference…. (if you'll excuse the hyperbole. I know the carb mod isn't NEARLY as invasive)

--buddy

[Farrar]

I don't care one way or the other; I was just wondering aloud what would happen to the value of non-Time-Machine cars when they are outnumbered.

In other words, I'm not going to argue with you. Sorry. :)

Farrar

[theMonch]

Are there really that many BTTF conversions out there? I know that they are by no means rare I have seen at least a dozen for sale in the last year and a half, some as quality as Videobobs and some not so much, but I can't imagine there being more than 100-125 in total. Weight that against the estimated 6000-7000k DMC-12's still thought to be in existance, and you really do have a minority group with the BTTF cars.

I would think that there are more DMC-12's sitting rotting away in garages and pole barns that there are BTTF conversions. No?

[Farrar]

You're not thinking fourth-dimensionally! ;-) I was talking about the future, not right now.

I see more cars being converted than unconverted. I believe Bob said he can do three in a year. Presumably, so can the other builders. That's nine per year. Eventually we will reach BTTF/non-BTTF equilibrium. And since no one has any speculation on what will happen to the value of the remaining cars, which was my only question, I guess I will leave this thread.

Farrar

[uhhair]

You're not thinking fourth-dimensionally! ;-) I was talking about the future, not right now.

I see more cars being converted than unconverted. I believe Bob said he can do three in a year. Presumably, so can the other builders. That's nine per year. Eventually we will reach BTTF/non-BTTF equilibrium. And since no one has any speculation on what will happen to the value of the remaining cars, which was my only question, I guess I will leave this thread.

Farrar

As funny as that scenario would be, it's not gonna happen. It's obvious from the low selling prices of the last few BTFF conversions that the market for them is quickly drying up. There aren't that many people who want a BTFF car, even among delorean owners, and at the rate they can make them, output will exceed demand in the very near future I think, at least at a price that is profitable for the makers of them.

[SamHill]

Isn't this the same argument as modifying the car by adding a carb? I see no difference…. (if you'll excuse the hyperbole. I know the carb mod isn't NEARLY as invasive)

--buddy

The arguable difference is that me putting a carb on my car affects other D owners very little, if any. A large number of cars being converted to time machines affects other owners as the time machine in popular perception becomes the Delorean's sole reason for being, and I believe (hope) that most in the community would disagree.

[Ron]

Isn't this the same argument as modifying the car by adding a carb? I see no difference.
Me either...to each hack his own..., hack. :deviltail:

[SamHill]

Me either...to each hack his own..., hack. :deviltail:


The other arguable difference is that one hack is for functionality and the other is car with a coffee grinder and other garbage hanging off the back.

[sean]

The other arguable difference is that one hack is for functionality and the other is car with a coffee grinder and other garbage hanging off the back.

All points of view. I'm pretty sure Martin might have the same garbage sentiment about hanging a carb on a D. I don't give two shits either way what folks do with their car, they worked hard for it and they can put what ever garbage they want in it or on it.

[Ron]

The other arguable difference is that one hack is for functionality and the other is car with a coffee grinder and other garbage hanging off the back.

Yeah, LOL.

From what I have seen, the functionality argument begins with not understanding K-Jet (easier to spend $100s on a conversion than time to learn, for most problems) and winds up sucked into a famous black hole with 3 stars on each side of it.

The latter, is what sucked us into the black hole we are in here now.

:wink:

[Soundkillr]

Yeah, LOL.

From what I have seen, the functionality argument begins with not understanding K-Jet (easier to spend $100s on a conversion than time to learn, for most problems) and winds up sucked into a famous black hole with 3 stars on each side of it.

The latter, is what sucked us into the black hole we are in here now.

:wink:
Amen!! An argument not understood by several who tote "the mod"

[timothymoore]

Folks act like when a car is converted it cant be undone, well, it can be undone. Sure it may cost more to restore but it's not a total loss to come back from a BTTF conversion.

if i remember correctly doesnt video bob drill holes in almost every panel to mount wiring for the replicas? can drilled holes in the stainless panels be repaired?

[nullset]

if i remember correctly doesnt video bob drill holes in almost every panel to mount wiring for the replicas? can drilled holes in the stainless panels be repaired?

Yes, drilled holes can be repaired.

http://www.pjgrady.co.uk/GenericContent.aspx?PageType=Site_Map&ShowContent=Project_11_Antennae_Hole.html

Very nice workmanship here.

Note: I didn't say it's easy….just that it can be done :)

--buddy

[sean]

if i remember correctly doesnt video bob drill holes in almost every panel to mount wiring for the replicas? can drilled holes in the stainless panels be repaired?

Yes they can, but of course it would be costly.

[ramblinmike]

To each his own in the hack/no hack controversy. The one thing all of us need to remember is that the supply of original parts is always diminishing. Glass sections, stainless panels, and many other parts of the car won't be remade. The demand will never be there. We need to treat the stockpile of OEM parts with the respect it deserves. Once it is gone, it is gone.

[sean]

. Once it is gone, it is gone.

I partially agree with this but when we exhausted things like dashes, angle drives, fuel senders and steering racks folks like DMCH step up and make things happen. I think our life time and probably the next two are DeLorean safe part wise.

[Iznodmad]

This tangent has got me thinking. Has anyone committed the sin of all sins to the DeLorean community........has someone made a Time Machine WITH a carb conversion? I am not aware of one, yet. If not who will be the first and what kind of value would it/could it have?:shameful:

[sdg3205]

This tangent has got me thinking. Has anyone committed the sin of all sins to the DeLorean community........has someone made a Time Machine WITH a carb conversion? I am not aware of one, yet. If not who will be the first and what kind of value would it/could it have?:shameful:

Go for the win and add power steering.

[theMonch]

You're not thinking fourth-dimensionally! ;-) I was talking about the future, not right now.

I see more cars being converted than unconverted. I believe Bob said he can do three in a year. Presumably, so can the other builders. That's nine per year. Eventually we will reach BTTF/non-BTTF equilibrium. And since no one has any speculation on what will happen to the value of the remaining cars, which was my only question, I guess I will leave this thread.

Farrar

Ohhh fourth dimensionally. Now I understand. Ill hae to rewatch buckaroo banzai to brush up on my dimensions. :)

I would think the more time passes and the less cars and parts there are (wheter it be from conversions or not), the more value to the remaining bunch. The only things that really hold the D back as a full blown collector car at this point IMHO are that they are a bit finiky and they are underpowered. It is arguably one of the most distinct vehicles ever made.

[Dracula]

It's about time I chime in here. Though my opinion is well-known for being against BTTF cars, I will defend my reasons for thinking so, yet, I want to add two new points to this thread. First: my opinion.

I think that the conversions take a perfectly good car or, in some cases, excellent restoration candidate, and turns it into a joke.

Point #1: Most people don't remember the premiere of the DeLorean as a car and, instead, only know of the BTTF movies; since the last movie came out in 1991, that gives the films a decade of being relevant after the initial hype of the DeLorean died down. Since that defines their first exposure to the cars, you see more people viewing them as the BTTF time machine first and a real car second. As a result, the BTTF car appeals to their early memories and, in most cases, the reason that they wanted the car in the first place. Just look at the threads about people's first exposure or the reason they own DeLoreans. How many of those stories involve lusting over the car in the movie? That's why there's such a surge in people buying and creating "prop cars." If the going rate is around $50,000 for one, then it's not too out of line with a vintage muscle car. With regimes shifting and the auto industry failing to produce any other iconic machines that people could lust after in their childhood, they contribute to the destruction of functional DeLoreans.

Point #2: People are always apt to say that a prop car can be undone, but how many cars have you ever heard of being reverted to stock. It doesn't seem to matter if it's a good or a poor conversion, they tend to stay in that state as opposed to receiving the proper restoration that they needed that prompted their alteration in the first place.

[videobob]

Maybe these BTTF fans are treated badly and shunned by other Delorean purists and they are causing a split? That's not cool.


I could care less what people do to their cars. What matters most to me is being in the community and helping each other out when possible.

For example, there is another delorean owner in Baton Rouge who has started converting his car to a BTTF replica. I have invited him to several local events and have even offered to do free work for him. He never responds. But whenever he receives a special invitation to a car show, or whenever someone from the local tv station wants to do a story on his BTTF car he gets involved.

In my opinion that is an elitist attitude and that is what bothers me. Honestly, how many BTTF replica owners do we have on here besides VideoBob? At least he is somewhat active in the community and is willing to associate with us inferior beings who drive "normal" cars.

DMC has lots of these glass panels and I think they are about $20 each.
After I tried tirelessly to sell them for any price, people won't even take them for FREE!! (if they have to pay for packing and shipping) they were piling up in the shop.
8 cars, 16 sets of glass.
They are hard to store.
So I started breaking them to toss them out!!!
That said, I have hoods, fenders, piles of rear louvers, back carpet, back bulkhead panels, battery and lock box covers and all the other bits I rip out of the car.
All for sale, dirt cheap.
Let me know if you want any of it.


I'd much rather see cars kept original and/or restored. When I heard Bob wanted those 3 barn cars I thought, "well there goes three more cars." Having said that, you can be sure Bob will get them running and back on the road and looking pretty darn good, and he has every right to do so.

What pissed me off was the video he posted of smashing quarter panel glass with a hammer. Go ahead and convert the cars, but please dont destroy irreplaceable pieces of the car. Keep discarded parts in the community.

Stock vs. modified.

It's funny, but when I first came on the scene in 2003 my motto and sales tactic was all about keeping things stock and unharmed.
I was the first to offer the LED conversion kits to prevent people from hacking the wires and installing toggle switches for the door lights.
I offered my radio wire harness kit so that people could install a modern radio without hacking into the harness.
I offered my replacement radio antenna kits so people could keep them working without having to add a static antenna.
All of my parts were designed to keep the car as unharmed as possible!

Fast forward 8 years and I am now drilling holes into almost every single panel on the car!!!
Usually the donor car is a basket case in the first place, but not always.
Sure, you can revert the cars back to normal with a little welding and filler but
we all know that won't happen.
BACK TO THE FUTURE is a timeless classic and will live on long after we are all gone.
(the story will anyways, and I am sure they will eventually remake it)
There is no doubt that without these movies the Delorean would not have the
success it has today.

This year's Comic-Com is centered around the Delorean and HOT WHEELS just put out several Delorean and BTTF cars to celebrate it.
It is not forgotten at all!

So bad news for the purists, BTTF will always be associated with the Delorean till the end of time. With less that 1% of the total production cars being converted into replica show pieces, this keeps the legacy, story and memory of the original car alive.
It is each owners responsibility to preserve the car how they see fit.

So thank you to those who support me, for those who don't I will be happy to sell you my removed bits so you can make sure they help to preserve other cars that need these parts.
Thanks!!!
- Videobob

[sdg3205]

DMC has lots of these glass panels and I think they are about $20 each.
After I tried tirelessly to sell them for any price, people won't even take them for FREE!! (if they have to pay for packing and shipping) they were piling up in the shop.
8 cars, 16 sets of glass.
They are hard to store.
So I started breaking them to toss them out!!!
That said, I have hoods, fenders, piles of rear louvers, back carpet, back bulkhead panels, battery and lock box covers and all the other bits I rip out of the car.
All for sale, dirt cheap.
Let me know if you want any of it.

People might not take them now, or even need them now, but in 20 years? One good hail storm in a DeLorean heavy area could wipe out a lot of glass. Just sayn...

Why not drop everything off at DMCH? about 150 miles from you? If you had that much stuff I'm sure they pick it up themselves!

[Kenny_Z]

It's the same argument I see over 69 chargers, though their conversions are a little less invasive. They also pull way more money than a Delorean in comparable condition.

I'll not one that can leave a car original if there's something that can be improved, especially if it can be reverted. Converting to a carb is something that can be reverted, same with EFI conversions and engine swaps.

There's many things I'd love to do to my D if I had enough funds. I'd love to swap the intake and do a FI throttle body type conversion with an improved exhaust system. I'd do all the suspension improvements as well. If I had unlimited funds I'd do an engine swap just to see what the D platform could do.

On my 66 Mustang I would love to go to a coilover front shock system, replacing the entire front half of the car. I'd do a 4 point suspension upgrade in the back, drop her into the weeds, tubs, 6 speed manual, and fuel cell. That's a radical conversion, hard to revert, and something that many Mustang purists hate. But she's my car and that is what I want.

With my Nova I was going to do a v8 conversion but the inline 6 was so interesting and unique that I decided to keep it. It turned out to make things more difficult for me because of the lack of support on the I6 but it will be worth it. I am going to swap the powerglide for a 4 speed automatic.

[TheDutchTexan]

His shop is in Dallas, and he lives (as far as I know, have not yet have the pleasure of meeting him) in Ft Worth.

A quick mapquest puts DMCH about 235 miles away. Not quite around the corner. There are too many assumptions being made. A hailstorm in a DeLorean heavy area is a bit of a stretch. Sure, if a hailstorm where to hit a huge D meet yes. But since that chance would be one in a million I doubt one would loose a window to a hailstorm. Most DeLoreans sleep inside, and do not come outside if there is a threat of severe weather around.

And DMCH would not send a driver over to pick it up if they have a tonne of those windows, and they perhaps sell a few a year because of breakage. That would simply be a bad business decision. No business operates on a loss principle. The cost of gas, the purchase price, and the stockroom all have monetary value. Same goes for Bob storing those windows at his shop. It would occupy valuable space. Space that can be used for props or even a few cars.

This is starting to sound like a bit of a witch hunt. And I for one dislike folks ganging up on an individual for doing something out of the ordinary.

[videobob]

Thanks for the support!
Nothing new, it's always been a witch hunt.
It concerns me that an entire new generation of people are being created
that only know social interactions via the internet.
They don't understand the connection with speaking to people face to face
and how to gauge reactions, peoples feelings and the consequences of insulting
people for the purpose of elevating yourself or a fragile ego.
In real life no one ever gives me any guff (to my face).
It only happens on the internet, behind my back.
My skin has gotten to be pretty thick over the years.
But again, thanks for the support!

I actually live in South Dallas, an area known as "Oak Cliff", which is famous for being where Stevie Ray Vaughan is from, he is also buried in the cemetery down the street from me. This area is also known for being a famous "black area", not the Ritz exactly,
but I found a 6000' sqft house with 4 bedrooms, 4 bath, jacuuzi room, game room,
full bar, 3-car garage, work shop and guest house....all for $100K.
SO I snapped it up!!!
I might be the only white guy for miles but everyone here loves my flare
and no one calls the cops when I throw a huge party.
It's awesome!
My shop is just down the road in nearby Duncanville at I20 / I67.

Anyone is welcomed to come check it out and I am happy to help you with your Delorean.

[Kukem]

I don't normally jump into debates like this. But what the hell.

I was 1 when the DeLorean was debuted. Hardly an age where I would have realized the hype or even known what the car was. I was 5 when I saw BTTF for the first time. I was 6 when someone told me it was a real car. I wanted one ever since. Fast forward to this year; I saw my very first DeLorean in person due to a teriffic owner from these boards at the age of 31.

None of this is relavant, except to me. I will buy my dream car in the coming weeks and even though I will keep it as close to stock as I can, the BTTF Time Machine will ALWAYS be the reason I knew these cars existed. Not everyone had that experience and some people were lucky to have exposure to the stock car, but for those of us who fell in love with the DeLorean because it was our first exposure to the car, have no less love for it than others. Purists will exist in every community; cars, art and even music, but those who like to create things for themselves or modify existing products to resemble something they love are justified to do so. It's a car.

I love Back to the Future and I love the DeLorean. If I had the money, I'd have both. I respect both for the thing they are and just because my personal tastes differ from the next guy, be it in cars, music or even art, doesn't mean I should be shunned. If you don't like it, don't do it yourself.

To each their own.

[stevedmc]

Why not drop everything off at DMCH? about 150 miles from you? If you had that much stuff I'm sure they pick it up themselves!

Hervey is closer plus he adds balance to the force.

[sdg3205]

His shop is in Dallas, and he lives (as far as I know, have not yet have the pleasure of meeting him) in Ft Worth.

A quick mapquest puts DMCH about 235 miles away. Not quite around the corner. There are too many assumptions being made. A hailstorm in a DeLorean heavy area is a bit of a stretch. Sure, if a hailstorm where to hit a huge D meet yes. But since that chance would be one in a million I doubt one would loose a window to a hailstorm. Most DeLoreans sleep inside, and do not come outside if there is a threat of severe weather around.

And DMCH would not send a driver over to pick it up if they have a tonne of those windows, and they perhaps sell a few a year because of breakage. That would simply be a bad business decision. No business operates on a loss principle. The cost of gas, the purchase price, and the stockroom all have monetary value. Same goes for Bob storing those windows at his shop. It would occupy valuable space. Space that can be used for props or even a few cars.

This is starting to sound like a bit of a witch hunt. And I for one dislike folks ganging up on an individual for doing something out of the ordinary.

I'm not going to argue with you.

Smash the parts. Natural disasters are 1 in a million and don't occur. DMCH is unlikely to pick up free glass/parts if it's passing through Dallas - it's not like they're a completely different kind of company (http://dmchelp.com/) that goes out of it's way for owners to ensure the future of the marque.

Gear down, big rig. It was a reasonable suggestion. Perhaps your opinions on saving irreplaceable parts will change when you get your car.

[stevedmc]

This tangent has got me thinking. Has anyone committed the sin of all sins to the DeLorean community........has someone made a Time Machine WITH a carb conversion? I am not aware of one, yet. If not who will be the first and what kind of value would it/could it have?:shameful:

I believe one of the movie cars was carbureted. I think it was one of the cars used in the third movie.

[sdg3205]

Hervey is closer plus he adds balance to the force.

I'd be totally cool with that, too.

[congerz83]

So tired of the VideoBob thrashing. Get off the soap boxes and let the man do his thing. Same with the Bill Robertson beatings that get distributed here often. These cars are our personal property and we should be able do with them what we wish with out facing mousey criticism from the so called "purists". Horses for corses. This is why I'm reluctant to go to these events. Or If I attend, i'll have to keep the engine bay covered to keep people from seeing my carburetor.

[nullset]

So tired of the VideoBob thrashing. Get off the soap boxes and let the man do his thing. Same with the Bill Robertson beatings that get distributed here often. These cars are our personal property and we should be able do with them what we wish with out facing mousey criticism from the so called "purists". Horses for corses. This is why I'm reluctant to go to these events. Or If I attend, i'll have to keep the engine bay covered to keep people from seeing my carburetor.

I honestly don't care if someone chooses to carberate their car. What I get annoyed at is the insistence that every car should be carbed if anything is wrong with it at all.

Do what you want to your car….Bill gets made fun of for evangelizing.

My fictionalized comment:

My tires are low on air. I'm not sure if they need to be replaced or not.

Carburetors weigh less than K-jet, so your little car won't need as much air in the tires. I'll drive halfway across the country to install one for you. I'll bring some diet cheerwine!

Note: NOT AN ACTUAL QUOTE. This is just what I see whenever the carb subject comes up.

I think if I'd been in a place where I'd spent thousands of dollars and many weeks trying to get my fuel system working reliably and it just wasn't happening, I'd probably consider a carb. I've never been in that place though.

--buddy

[Soundkillr]

So tired of the VideoBob thrashing. Get off the soap boxes and let the man do his thing. Same with the Bill Robertson beatings that get distributed here often. These cars are our personal property and we should be able do with them what we wish with out facing mousey criticism from the so called "purists". Horses for corses. This is why I'm reluctant to go to these events. Or If I attend, i'll have to keep the engine bay covered to keep people from seeing my carburetor.

On that topic...Bill gets railed on for his approach, nothing more. Anyone who tried to prove an opinion or product as a saving grace is just asking for it. If I had bttf owners telling me the car they own is better than stock I would find it laughable, if however they were cool about it, I would have an "to each his own" attitude. i think more alternate fuel people would see this more if they quit trying to prove "that" way is superior

[sean]

Do what you want to your car….Bill gets made fun of for evangelizing.

Yes...

On that topic...Bill gets railed on for his approach, nothing more. Anyone who tried to prove an opinion or product as a saving grace is just asking for it. If I had bttf owners telling me the car they own is better than stock I would find it laughable, if however they were cool about it, I would have an "to each his own" attitude. i think more alternate fuel people would see this more if they quit trying to prove "that" way is superior
and YES!!

[Iznodmad]

I think most of us can agree that the DeLorean has it own host of potential problems and 30 years of time adds insult to injury. It takes guts to own a DeLorean or two and to actually use and maintain it. It takes even more guts to complicate it by putting props on the car. I'll keep my problems to a minimum, unless I hit the lottery. IF I had unlimited resources, I would give VideoBob a call........just for the hell of it.

[nullset]

I think most of us can agree that the DeLorean has it own host of potential problems and 30 years of time adds insult to injury. It takes guts to own a DeLorean or two and to actually use and maintain it. It takes even more guts to complicate it by putting props on the car. I'll keep my problems to a minimum, unless I hit the lottery. IF I had unlimited resources, I would give VideoBob a call........just for the hell of it.

I appreciate what videobob does…but for me, it's much more fun to build than to buy.

The BTTF replica community is sadly fragmented. Gary Weaver, Videobob, and the 'fight club' guys just seem not to be able to get along.

This sucks because it makes it hard for those of us that have no beef with any of them to find one place with all the information / resources related to building a conversion. They spend their time arguing over who has the most "screen accurate" car, or generally insulting and mistreating each other.

Can't we all just get along? :) LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! etc etc.

[stevedmc]

I think most of us can agree that the DeLorean has it own host of potential problems and 30 years of time adds insult to injury. It takes guts to own a DeLorean or two and to actually use and maintain it. It takes even more guts to complicate it by putting props on the car. I'll keep my problems to a minimum, unless I hit the lottery. IF I had unlimited resources, I would give VideoBob a call........just for the hell of it.

I'd drop a car off with DPI Josh if I had some serious money.

[TheDutchTexan]

I'm not going to argue with you.

Smash the parts. Natural disasters are 1 in a million and don't occur. DMCH is unlikely to pick up free glass/parts if it's passing through Dallas - it's not like they're a completely different kind of company (http://dmchelp.com/) that goes out of it's way for owners to ensure the future of the marque.

Gear down, big rig. It was a reasonable suggestion. Perhaps your opinions on saving irreplaceable parts will change when you get your car.

Don't state you are not going to argue with me and then still argue with me.

1. - A helpful website hardly makes a company different, they still need to operate at a profit to keep said helpful website up. Making bad business decisions will not help their cause. It is not like they have a huge costumer base.
2. - If there is no room to store parts there is no room. One can not wait for another company to come pick up the parts whenever they come around to passing trough a certain part of the country.
3. - 1 in a million does not mean natural disasters do not occur. It is just highly unlikely they will happen during a massive D meet. Do not twist my written words.
4. - It will not change my opinion about the quarter windows when I get my car. They don't sell hardly any of those. Besides, if they ever come to the point where they are running low / out decades down the line I am sure they will put in the R&D to get new ones.

Reasonable suggestion yes, just not sound from a business point of view.

[Mark D]

...

The BTTF replica community is sadly fragmented. Gary Weaver, Videobob, and the 'fight club' guys just seem not to be able to get along.

Sadly, we have tried many times to reconcile our differences, but both of the people who's names you listed above have tremendous egos and a sense of self entitlement that have continued to tear our small community apart.

Most of you read Gary's apology thread back on DMCTalk.com. He tried for years to control information and decide who was worthy of being part of the community and having access to the rare props. He used countless people and destroyed dozens of relationships. The method in which he ripped people off monetarily was sickening. Eventually those that he exiled and deemed not worthy formed their own community where we all get along and share info, and help eachother build their cars without the drama. He could not live without knowing what those other builders were up to. He hacked into several forums and ftp storage sites and stole gigabytes of information. He is fueled by his desire for fame and profit and has stepped on countless backs to reach his goals.

Videobob was cast out of the community too by weaver. While deep down he's probably not a bad dude, he has also screwed over countless people in the quest for profit. He's recasted other people's work and sold it as his own to make money. For those of you not involved in prop making to know what that means, it would be like someone here spending hundreds of hours designing and building some new part for the delorean, like that double din radio bracket only to have someone buy one and then start selling poorly made knock offs. Then he'll go online and slam your parts and say his is better. He is also notorious for hoarding parts. If someone finds a source for a connector or a hose or something and shared the information so everyone else could get one, Bob would go buy up every single one and then resell to his "friends" for 10x the cost. Then on top of that tell the guy at the source that the parts were super rare time machine parts so the next time he hot more in stock he'd charge the next buyer 10x the cost too. Ever wonder why all the worthless vintage crap that his bolted on the car costs so much? You can thank videobob.

So that is some backstory for you all. The majority of people in the community get along, but it has been only a couple of guys that have almost ruined it for so many others. Your average Joe on the street has limited access to only the most commonly known knowledge about the cars because the rest of us have to protect our info from the vultchers.

[nullset]

Eventually those that he exiled and deemed not worthy formed their own community where we all get along and share info, and help eachother build their cars without the drama. He could not live without knowing what those other builders were up to. He hacked into several forums and ftp storage sites and stole gigabytes of information. He is fueled by his desire for fame and profit and has stepped on countless backs to reach his goals.


I asked on offto55 (is this the site you're talking about?) for help with making some props, and was told to wait for them to do a run so I could buy them.

I go to Gary's site and he posts detailed pictures of what he makes and how he makes it.

Regardless of the history, at least he's willing to share.

If you're talking about some other site, let me know. I'd love to find a good community of BTTF delorean builders without any drama, and willing to share plans/specs/etc.

I don't want to buy a time machine. I already did that (see 2930. It's pretty horrible). I want to build the pieces, because for me, that's the fun.

"Fight Club" is so secretive I have no idea how to get involved.


--buddy

[valdez]

What a bunch of opinionated crybabies. :tantrum: You want something to cry about?

Wait til you guys see the wooden body kit I'm making!
:hippo:
Ummmmm, desecration at it's finest.

[nullset]

What a bunch of opinionated crybabies. :tantrum: You want something to cry about?

Wait til you guys see the wooden body kit I'm making!
:hippo:
Ummmmm, desecration at it's finest.

One day I'll make a Bricklin into a Time Machine….. ;)

Complete with stainless steel body? Hmm……

--buddy

[Mark D]

I'm sure the bricklin owners would LOVE you then :lol: I"m sure they are already annoyed with everyone thinking their car is a DeLorean.

I think it would be really cool to see though.

[Mark D]

I asked on offto55 (is this the site you're talking about?) for help with making some props, and was told to wait for them to do a run so I could buy them.

I go to Gary's site and he posts detailed pictures of what he makes and how he makes it.

Regardless of the history, at least he's willing to share.

If you're talking about some other site, let me know. I'd love to find a good community of BTTF delorean builders without any drama, and willing to share plans/specs/etc.

I don't want to buy a time machine. I already did that (see 2930. It's pretty horrible). I want to build the pieces, because for me, that's the fun.

"Fight Club" is so secretive I have no idea how to get involved.


--buddy

What part exactly were you trying to make? We do a lot of group buys, so if it was something we had to get from a vendor that was most likely why we were waiting to do a run. It's cheaper to buy in large quantities, and then everyone pays less overall. The vents on the back of the car are a good example.

[Gary Weaver II]

Really? You're bringing up in the middle of a BTTF-Bash AGAIN? I have had NOTHING to do with any of your group for nearly a year. I've never publicly criticized your group's "technically accurate" Replica when it went up for auction. Neither have a I publicly criticized your reworking of Terry Matalas' conversion after he broke our agreement and failed to finish paying for it. I've done nothing to YOU PERSONALLY Mark. You weren't even IN Fight Club when I made my posts here. Yet you are INVARIABLY there to criticize and spread the same lies and misrepresentations time and time again whenever I'm brought up.

I said my peace to everyone here and on the other forums LAST YEAR. I have moved on. I'm doing exactly now what I said I would do then if the peace didn't last. I'm NOT commenting, I'm not getting involved. I simply want to work on my own car and my own projects in PEACE without being brought up anytime you, or Fight Club/TemporalFX want to put a few more notches into your belt. Take your pot-shots elsewhere. Better yet, just don't take them at all.

You can apparently make a really nice looking Time Machine. Why not focus on that and share the GOOD. Just do me and everyone else a favor, move on, and leave me out of it.

Sincerely and for the LAST time in one of these bash-threads,
Gary Weaver


Sadly, we have tried many times to reconcile our differences, but both of the people who's names you listed above have tremendous egos and a sense of self entitlement that have continued to tear our small community apart.

Most of you read Gary's apology thread back on DMCTalk.com. He tried for years to control information and decide who was worthy of being part of the community and having access to the rare props. He used countless people and destroyed dozens of relationships. The method in which he ripped people off monetarily was sickening. Eventually those that he exiled and deemed not worthy formed their own community where we all get along and share info, and help eachother build their cars without the drama. He could not live without knowing what those other builders were up to. He hacked into several forums and ftp storage sites and stole gigabytes of information. He is fueled by his desire for fame and profit and has stepped on countless backs to reach his goals.

Videobob was cast out of the community too by weaver. While deep down he's probably not a bad dude, he has also screwed over countless people in the quest for profit. He's recasted other people's work and sold it as his own to make money. For those of you not involved in prop making to know what that means, it would be like someone here spending hundreds of hours designing and building some new part for the delorean, like that double din radio bracket only to have someone buy one and then start selling poorly made knock offs. Then he'll go online and slam your parts and say his is better. He is also notorious for hoarding parts. If someone finds a source for a connector or a hose or something and shared the information so everyone else could get one, Bob would go buy up every single one and then resell to his "friends" for 10x the cost. Then on top of that tell the guy at the source that the parts were super rare time machine parts so the next time he hot more in stock he'd charge the next buyer 10x the cost too. Ever wonder why all the worthless vintage crap that his bolted on the car costs so much? You can thank videobob.

So that is some backstory for you all. The majority of people in the community get along, but it has been only a couple of guys that have almost ruined it for so many others. Your average Joe on the street has limited access to only the most commonly known knowledge about the cars because the rest of us have to protect our info from the vultchers.

[Michael]

If someone finds a source for a connector or a hose or something and shared the information so everyone else could get one, Bob would go buy up every single one and then resell to his "friends" for 10x the cost. Then on top of that tell the guy at the source that the parts were super rare time machine parts so the next time he hot more in stock he'd charge the next buyer 10x the cost too.

That's called capitalism


Ever wonder why all the worthless vintage crap that his bolted on the car costs so much? You can thank videobob.

And that's called free market, these two things are the reason why any person in this country can make his/her dreams come true.

[videobob]

I think you have my story confused with Gary's.
I was a little bit more of a Robin-Hood with my stuff.
Unlike other websites, my website gave all the information away for free.
I gave out all the sources, model numbers, build instructions, etc.
There were some parts that I kept in my storage that I refused to simply give away to my competition, so I guess that makes me a "hoarder"?
Truth is that I created all my own competition.
All these new guys out there were all on my website soaking up the info and
buying parts from the sources I revealed.
So you are totally right when you say I was the source of the reason all the hard to
find stuff is gone and more expensive, but not for the reason you claim.
Long before J Ryan, Joe Walser and so many of these other new guys came along
I was doing this stuff and they were all members of my original website.
They took what info they needed from me and used it against me.
The reason "we" can't get along is because we all sell cars and are in competition with each other. No other reason. It's pretty cut and dry.
-VB


Sadly, we have tried many times to reconcile our differences, but both of the people who's names you listed above have tremendous egos and a sense of self entitlement that have continued to tear our small community apart.

Most of you read Gary's apology thread back on DMCTalk.com. He tried for years to control information and decide who was worthy of being part of the community and having access to the rare props. He used countless people and destroyed dozens of relationships. The method in which he ripped people off monetarily was sickening. Eventually those that he exiled and deemed not worthy formed their own community where we all get along and share info, and help eachother build their cars without the drama. He could not live without knowing what those other builders were up to. He hacked into several forums and ftp storage sites and stole gigabytes of information. He is fueled by his desire for fame and profit and has stepped on countless backs to reach his goals.

Videobob was cast out of the community too by weaver. While deep down he's probably not a bad dude, he has also screwed over countless people in the quest for profit. He's recasted other people's work and sold it as his own to make money. For those of you not involved in prop making to know what that means, it would be like someone here spending hundreds of hours designing and building some new part for the delorean, like that double din radio bracket only to have someone buy one and then start selling poorly made knock offs. Then he'll go online and slam your parts and say his is better. He is also notorious for hoarding parts. If someone finds a source for a connector or a hose or something and shared the information so everyone else could get one, Bob would go buy up every single one and then resell to his "friends" for 10x the cost. Then on top of that tell the guy at the source that the parts were super rare time machine parts so the next time he hot more in stock he'd charge the next buyer 10x the cost too. Ever wonder why all the worthless vintage crap that his bolted on the car costs so much? You can thank videobob.

So that is some backstory for you all. The majority of people in the community get along, but it has been only a couple of guys that have almost ruined it for so many others. Your average Joe on the street has limited access to only the most commonly known knowledge about the cars because the rest of us have to protect our info from the vultchers.

[videobob]

Yes it was, but it was not a Delorean Engine.
I think it was a Volkswagon or a Porsche maybe.


I believe one of the movie cars was carbureted. I think it was one of the cars used in the third movie.

[sdg3205]

Yes it was, but it was not a Delorean Engine.
I think it was a Volkswagon or a Porsche maybe.

Yes, Volkswagon I believe.

there are some good pics of it on a site dedicated to the BTTF 3 car and its restoration.

[videobob]

If anyone here is looking for a new prop website that has a little more room for expansion, check out http://www.bobspropshop.com/
It's not as elitist as the RPF, it doesn't have the same agenda as others.
This will be the fan interaction site to accompany my TV show next year
and will be very busy.
There is a live shop webcam into the shop, lots of videos, media and downloads
and will be a fun place for prop lovers to hang out.
It is just getting started but I assure you it will grow and I will eventually
get ALL of my archive photos up there.

In the meantime, check out this little documentary I put together about going
to spend time with Kevin Pike and how we researched building my replica!

http://youtu.be/R4jggag4NSU

Thanks!!!

[Mark D]

Really? You're bringing up in the middle of a BTTF-Bash AGAIN? I have had NOTHING to do with any of your group for nearly a year. I've never publicly criticized your group's "technically accurate" Replica when it went up for auction. Neither have a I publicly criticized your reworking of Terry Matalas' conversion after he broke our agreement and failed to finish paying for it. I've done nothing to YOU PERSONALLY Mark. You weren't even IN Fight Club when I made my posts here. Yet you are INVARIABLY there to criticize and spread the same lies and misrepresentations time and time again whenever I'm brought up.

I said my peace to everyone here and on the other forums LAST YEAR. I have moved on. I'm doing exactly now what I said I would do then if the peace didn't last. I'm NOT commenting, I'm not getting involved. I simply want to work on my own car and my own projects in PEACE without being brought up anytime you, or Fight Club/TemporalFX want to put a few more notches into your belt. Take your pot-shots elsewhere. Better yet, just don't take them at all.

You can apparently make a really nice looking Time Machine. Why not focus on that and share the GOOD. Just do me and everyone else a favor, move on, and leave me out of it.

Sincerely and for the LAST time in one of these bash-threads,
Gary Weaver

It was nullset that brought your name into this conversation actually, and if people are interested to know why there is a rift in the BTTF community they have a right to know the truth. Everything I said was true, and you've gone on the public record admitting to everything I just said.

(If anyone cares, you can read the full apology from weaver here) :
http://www.offto55.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1189

Also, don't presume to know when I became a member of Fight Club. Both of the boards you hacked into and the FTP site you stole from had information that I was directly involved with creating. You stole information from me and from my friends. I'd say that's personal. We have proof that you also tried hacking into other people's accounts besides the one you were able to compromise and my username was on that list.

People have a right to know what you've done. I understand it stings when your name comes up again and more people learn the truth. I have seen what you did to Terry's car first hand as well. If I can prevent one more person from having to go through what he's gone through then the time wasted posting about it here is worth it. He's lucky his car did not start on fire from your wiring job. There was hardly a single fuse anywhere to be found. You cut up his out of production interior side panels to make your poorly made aluminum parts fit. The list goes on and on. I'm not even going to get into the other stories he's told about your time there working at his house.

The fact in all of this is you can't just walk away from what you did and expect your name to never come up in this community because you've "moved on". You made your bed, now lie in it.

[TemporalFX]

Neither have a I publicly criticized your reworking of Terry Matalas' conversion after he broke our agreement and failed to finish paying for it.

Gary Weaver II was paid in full for his "work". I am happy to provide copies of his endorsed checks. :D Unfortunately, I can also provide copies of the repair bills for damage he also did to the car. Fortunately, the car has got enough work to pay itself off! And then some! :D

And Gary, thanks for the kind words about Joe Walser's and Temporal FX's new conversion. We're quite proud of it. And you'll be seeing a whole lot of this car. A whole lot. :D Stay tuned!

Just another thought in time!

[videobob]

Terry, since you're feeling so open, I'd love to know what you paid Gary for the car.
He has always made me out to be some sort of pirate who rapes and pillages BTTF fans for every penny because I make my living selling these parts.
A "profiteer" he calls me.
Yet he never mentions the fact that he has sold at least 4 Time Machines that I know of and countless other parts throughout the years.
If I had to guess, maybe $300K-$400K over the years!!!
That's no chump change!
What's more, it seems that everyone who has ever bought anything from him
or done business with him has regretted it.

I try so hard to get along with people.
I know I am a controversy magnet, but I do try hard to get along with people
and will ALWAYS accept an olive branch and open to having a discussion.
You know this first hand.
Well, I have tried in vein to get along with Gary over the years, but his massive and fragile ego and insecurity will not allow him to be friends with anyone who he considers to be a threat or competition.
When I made my "Auction Kings" car and he heard all the hype I put into it
and heard how Kevin Pike raved about it, well, he just couldn't take it.
So we are no longer speaking.
I think this time it is a good riddance.

[nullset]

Point #2: People are always apt to say that a prop car can be undone, but how many cars have you ever heard of being reverted to stock. It doesn't seem to matter if it's a good or a poor conversion, they tend to stay in that state as opposed to receiving the proper restoration that they needed that prompted their alteration in the first place.

Come to Atlanta, and see the time and energy I'm putting into the mechanical restoration of my car and THEN say that.

Your attitude seems to be that, if you aren't old enough to remember the car before seing back to the future, you shouldn't be able to own one?

You must buy all your parts from Delorean One, with an attitude like that.

--buddy

[nullset]

What part exactly were you trying to make? We do a lot of group buys, so if it was something we had to get from a vendor that was most likely why we were waiting to do a run. It's cheaper to buy in large quantities, and then everyone pays less overall. The vents on the back of the car are a good example.

I asked for help with the dimensions on the rear deck vents, and was told to "wait for metal madness 2". No other information was offered.

I don't want to buy vents. Not from Gary, Videobob, or anyone else. I want to make them. That's what I was asking for help with.

"Wait for us to make them so you can buy them" is not a helpful response.

--buddy

[TemporalFX]

Terry, since you're feeling so open, I'd love to know what you paid Gary for the car. I have tried in vein to get along with Gary over the years, but his massive and fragile ego and insecurity will not allow him to be friends with anyone who he considers to be a threat or competition.

I'm really not interested in discussing Gary here. I only responded because he mentioned me directly. To be fair, Gary worked at a reduced rate for me at high speed. The result would have been adequate for 80% of the general population. However, he was paid in full despite bizarre claims otherwise. I'm happy to go into details in private, but I'm not interested in a "bash Gary" thread.

However, I'm quite happy with my new Temporal FX car which can be seen at:

www.temporalfx.com

[nullset]

www.temporalfx.com

Oh no. A full screen flash popup window?

I'd check this site out if it was actually available in HTML, and didn't try to resize my windows.

--buddy
(Oops. Off topic…)

[TemporalFX]

LOL. Oh, those re-sized windows. They plague the world.:angry_whip:

[Dracula]

Come to Atlanta, and see the time and energy I'm putting into the mechanical restoration of my car and THEN say that.

Your attitude seems to be that, if you aren't old enough to remember the car before seing back to the future, you shouldn't be able to own one?

You must buy all your parts from Delorean One, with an attitude like that.

--buddy

You have yourself said, in this thread and other places, that you aren't undoing the conversion, so that only further proves my point. You had initially stated that was your intent, now you list a series of reasons that you decided against it. Since that disagrees with my ideas of automotive restoration and alteration, it will always be a point of contention.

It's the antagonizing comments like your joke about converting a Bricklin or comparison of myself to DeLorean One that are needlessly added for, what I assume to be the sake of fueling a conflict.

I understand that most people have the movie as their first form of exposure and that can't be helped. However, I've seen too many nice cars turned into sub-par replicas and the worst is when a car that could've been slowly fixed on even a limited budget becomes modified into a half-baked representation of the movie car. I don't buy a car that I can't budget a restoration for and treat with care. If I can't maintain it, I won't buy it. Too many people buy cars they can't afford to repair or maintain, and this is not exclusive to DeLoreans, and then let the car deteriorate because they can't get their money out of it or afford to fix it. People need to assess their finances before they purchase any classic vehicle, let alone two.

[nullset]

You have yourself said, in this thread and other places, that you aren't undoing the conversion, so that only further proves my point. You had initially stated that was your intent, now you list a series of reasons that you decided against it. Since that disagrees with my ideas of automotive restoration and alteration, it will always be a point of contention.


When I bought the car, I wasn't sure what I was going to do with it. I decided that it's more cost effective to go forward than to go backward. Either way, I'm working my ass off making sure it is 100% mechanically sound and safe. I'm doing a frame off. This is more attention than this car has had, probably since it's construction.



It's the antagonizing comments like your joke about converting a Bricklin or comparison of myself to DeLorean One that are needlessly added for, what I assume to be the sake of fueling a conflict.


It's called humor. I am jealous of your Bricklin. I'd love to see one in person some day. I'd never even heard of them until after owning a Delorean for a while. The "Delorean One" comment was related to what I perceive as an elitist attitude.



I understand that most people have the movie as their first form of exposure and that can't be helped. However, I've seen too many nice cars turned into sub-par replicas and the worst is when a car that could've been slowly fixed on even a limited budget becomes modified into a half-baked representation of the movie car. I don't buy a car that I can't budget a restoration for and treat with care. If I can't maintain it, I won't buy it. Too many people buy cars they can't afford to repair or maintain, and this is not exclusive to DeLoreans, and then let the car deteriorate because they can't get their money out of it or afford to fix it. People need to assess their finances before they purchase any classic vehicle, let alone two.

I could completely put 2930 back to stock, and then sell it for a hefty profit. I would then have nothing but a little bit of money in my pocket, and have lost a huge chunk of my life for it. I chose instead to do what I wanted to do with it, and to have something I can enjoy.

I can afford to own both cars or I wouldn't have bought them. If my choices for 2930 were to either return it to stock or part it out, it would actually be more cost effective for me to part it out. Would you prefer that? I chose the third option, of restoring it as I can, and making it a movie car, as it's a poor candidate for stock restoration.

Back To The Future will always be linked with these cars. If no more movie cars were made, 50 years from now, someone will still see a Delorean and yell "BACK TO THE FUTURE!". Embrace it, or it'll drive you insane.

It's not like there are thousands for replica cars out there. In the end, a car is a car. As cars go, I'd argue a Delorean isn't even all that rare. If I can perpetually find at least 5 for sale on ebay, I consider that to be proof that they are not that rare.

--buddy

[TemporalFX]

Back To The Future will always be linked with these cars. If no more movie cars were made, 50 years from now, someone will still see a Delorean and yell "BACK TO THE FUTURE!". Embrace it, or it'll drive you insane.

Word.

[uhhair]

Word.

+1 to this.

[delorean85]

I have known Gary for a number of years and have DIRECT dealings with him. His parts are second to none. He has worked many hours on some of these parts just to be copied and slandered for obvious monetary reasons. I never speak up to much on these boards because of the politics. I simply want to enjoy my Delorean. Gary is my friend and I felt that I needed to clear the air the best that I could.

The Terry story.....well there are two sides to every coin. I find it awfully convenient that "Temporal Effects" opens up and Gary, who is considered to be the best at what he does by many "non-BTTF vendors" is openly slammed with all this "evidence" from members of a certain club in California that certain members are now selling cars publicly. I have seen the e-mails from Terry and KNOW for a FACT that much more was promised for Terry’s conversion and he was aware of a lot of the issues that were mentioned above. 100% of the libelous accusations can all be explained to a reasonable person that is not caught up in the ‘we are better’ game. I mean if you want to get down to “damaged parts” how bout all of the drilled fenders and quarter panels and that have to be done to make a BTTF conversion. C’mon get a life. These cars have to be modified from an original Delorean’s state to make these BTTF cars. All of the modifications were done with Terry’s consent and knowledge. I have SEEN the e-mail’s with my OWN eyes. Gary is the victim on this deal. He simply wasn’t paid what he was promised. I am sure you have checks that were cashed but c’mon man you know what your end of the bargain was. If you have a problem with the hood you should PM Gary…I know he will trade your back. He has told me on many occasions on how he wished he had it back to be screen accurate. I can honestly tell you he cares nothing about a “flap” hood. And a lot of the parts you had fixed could have been replaced if you would have simply asked before you got in bed with some other BTTF group…..Even though you gave your blessing on the modifications.

Gary has never STOLEN BTTF props off of a screen used car like "some" people have and admitted to it. And praising themselves for their actions! Again…..I have seen the evidence.

Gary is not part of a big faction or group. Some of the bullies need to get a life and stop playing the 'mine is better' game just to market their cars better when they sell them for insane amounts of money.

Just think about it...If you are going to start selling BTTF cars wouldn't you want to be perceived as the "best". Yes is the answer. But to many that would not mean creating libel against another person. Defamation of character is a very serious action that can have very serious consequences.

I know "hundreds of thousands" is an inaccurate number for what he has made. I know his profit margins are extremely small after you factor in car cost and parts for the conversion and in my opinion too little for all of the negativity towards him over a group of people only interested in promoting themselves as the "best" to make a few dollars.

Video Bob---C’mon man. Just because he has kicked you off his boards and refuses to sell you parts because you just get other peoples work and then market them as your “own” and as the “best”, is that a reason to jump on the wagon when there is not a person that I know in the Delorean community that doesn’t roll their eyes when your name is mentioned.

Adam Lee

[SamHill]

Defamation of character is a very serious action that can have very serious consequences.




Not hardly ever, actually.

[TemporalFX]

The Terry story.....well there are two sides to every coin. I find it awfully convenient that "Temporal Effects" opens up and Gary, who is considered to be the best at what he does by many "non-BTTF vendors" is openly slammed with all this "evidence" from members of a certain club in California that certain members are now selling cars publicly. I have seen the e-mails from Terry and KNOW for a FACT that much more was promised for Terry’s conversion and he was aware of a lot of the issues that were mentioned above. 100% of the libelous accusations can all be explained to a reasonable person that is not caught up in the ‘we are better’ game. I mean if you want to get down to “damaged parts” how bout all of the drilled fenders and quarter panels and that have to be done to make a BTTF conversion. C’mon get a life. These cars have to be modified from an original Delorean’s state to make these BTTF cars. All of the modifications were done with Terry’s consent and knowledge. I have SEEN the e-mail’s with my OWN eyes. Gary is the victim on this deal. He simply wasn’t paid what he was promised. I am sure you have checks that were cashed but c’mon man you know what your end of the bargain was. If you have a problem with the hood you should PM Gary…I know he will trade your back. He has told me on many occasions on how he wished he had it back to be screen accurate. I can honestly tell you he cares nothing about a “flap” hood. And a lot of the parts you had fixed could have been replaced if you would have simply asked before you got in bed with some other BTTF group…..Even though you gave your blessing on the modifications.

Adam Lee

Well written, Gary! I mean, Adam! Or is it Tom? :D I'm happy to provide anyone who cares to know with more detailed information on this particular transaction including emails, video footage, and eye witness accounts. However, I have no interest in continuing this back and forth here on DMCTALK as... I'm sure... no one is interested. I'm hoping the admins here delete this thread.

Aren't "sock puppets" not allowed here on DMCTALK?

[videobob]

"Adam Lee"?
Never heard of ya.
Funny how Gary uses the word "Interesting" so much a joke-shirt was made about it!

Adam, unless you have met me or done business with me personally, anything you know about me that was fed to you via Gary is most likely bullshit.

I'm a good dude, with good friends, who does good work, who gets great compliments from the people who know what's what and that's all that really matters.

The guy who ended up buying my car at Auction Kings got my name as a recommendation directly from Bob Gale.
Kevin Pike helped me with the project, invited me to stay at his house and pronounced my car "The best replica he has ever seen".
So who's opinion is more valid?
The guy who wrote the movie and the guy who built the original car, or
some poindexter in small town Oklahoma who's pissed because he got beat
in the "who's got the better nerdy car" competition?

Gary the Weave, = Owned.

[videobob]

Buddy, I used to give away the dimensions and CAD's of the vents on my website but I admit that I don't do that anymore.
I got sick of giving away all my secrets and creating my own competition.
I no longer give that stuff away nor do I sell it.
I only sell complete replicas.

You could do what I did...get in your car with a camera and a ruler, drive to Universal Studios, pay off a maintenance worker, gain access to the car, measure all the parts and pieces, stay in hotels and run up a bill for a few thousand bucks, spend about 8 years meticulously going through photos, watching the videos, taking screen shots, having scaled up prints made, making templates out of foam board and MDF and working with CAD engineers and metal shops to help you make them....spend about $3000 on that project, put a few together and see how you like them and how they fit, try it again and again....
Did I mention the Plasma cutters? TIG Welders? Brake & Shear?
... and all those little machine screws....damn.
Oh wait, you want someone to just hand all that stuff over to you for FREE!!!
That would be awesome!!!!
It took me 8 years of full blown solid work to get where I'm at today.

No one said this was easy dude.

So in my opinion, if someone offers to SELL you all that for a small price I would jump all over that without a complaint!!!
- VB


I asked for help with the dimensions on the rear deck vents, and was told to "wait for metal madness 2". No other information was offered.

I don't want to buy vents. Not from Gary, Videobob, or anyone else. I want to make them. That's what I was asking for help with.

"Wait for us to make them so you can buy them" is not a helpful response.

--buddy

[stevedmc]

So who's opinion is more valid?
The guy who wrote the movie and the guy who built the original car, or
some poindexter in small town Oklahoma who's pissed because he got beat
in the "who's got the better nerdy car" competition?

Awesome.

[nullset]

You could do what I did...get in your car with a camera and a ruler, drive to Universal Studios, pay off a maintenance worker, gain access to the car, measure all the parts and pieces, stay in hotels and run up a bill for a few thousand bucks, spend about 8 years meticulously going through photos, watching the videos, taking screen shots, having scaled up prints made, making templates out of foam board and MDF and working with CAD engineers and metal shops to help you make them....spend about $3000 on that project, put a few together and see how you like them and how they fit, try it again and again....
Did I mention the Plasma cutters? TIG Welders? Brake & Shear?
... and all those little machine screws....damn.
Oh wait, you want someone to just hand all that stuff over to you for FREE!!!
That would be awesome!!!!
It took me 8 years of full blown solid work to get where I'm at today.

No one said this was easy dude.

So in my opinion, if someone offers to SELL you all that for a small price I would jump all over that without a complaint!!!
- VB

I'd rather not recreate the wheel. If someone has gone to all that effort, I'd much prefer asking them for help to doing it myself. That way, I can focus on other things. I have some skills others might not have. Others have some information I don't have.

So yes, I'm going to ask for information wherever I can get it. And you're welcome to hoard whatever you want, and share what you want.

What I'm looking for is COOPERATION, which seems not to exist within the BTTF builder's community.

So far, Gary's website is the only place to actually show reference material, so I'll absorb as much as I can. If I manage to come up with something reasonable, I'll be releasing the plans so others can use them. Why? Because this is a hobby, not my livelihood. It's FUN.

--buddy

[Mark D]

Hahaha... Adam Lee? Really Gary? Was "Styker" already taken this time? How many fake/sock puppet accounts have you created in your lifetime man?

If you've got something to say just say it instead of hiding behind fake accounts and IP anonymizers.

The distorted view of yourself and the world around you is evermore apparent when you create these bogus usernames to try and drum up support for yourself. It's really twisted to see how you really feel about yourself under the guise of a phony username.

If what I'm reading from videobob is true then you have completely alienated yourself from every other member in this hobby. Maybe you would have some real people in your corner if you hadn't burned every single one of those bridges.

In spite of all the damage you have caused throughout the years I am really starting to just feel sorry for you. I mean it's really getting sad dude. I think everyone here gets it by now, so this is gonna be the last I say for a while unless there are more inquiring people who want to know.


Word.

So true.

I'm sure there will still be people who get annoyed by it too.

It comes with the territory I guess. Hopefully more people remember it for the positive things and less for the cocaine newspaper headlines.

[valdez]

In spite of all the damage you have caused throughout the years I am really starting to just feel sorry for you. I mean it's really getting sad dude. I think everyone here gets it by now, so this is gonna be the last I say for a while unless there are more inquiring people who want to know.


Really now?
You're the only one who's never stopped bitching about the other builders and I doubt you're gonna stop anytime soon.

More inquiring people? Who inquired in the first place? All I see are new or hijacked posts that keep popping up and nearly all are started by you in order to bash others over old grudges.

You have become so ridiculous that you are now bashing Gary via a 3rd party's post about their work, plus started a new one all together in the same day. Suck it up and move on buttercup, you are becoming more distasteful than those you are bashing even if everything you say is true.

[sean]

I should have learned my lesson from the last BTTF bitch fest between the prop sellers. This thread is done and any further discussion about prop stealing, hoarding and other stupidity will be deleted. I swear this shit is worse than the political garbage we had.