Strange vin location

[kenny]

Hi guys,
I have a question for any vin experts.
Did any cars leave the factory without the door jam vin and without the dashboard vin?
I do know some of the early 500 series cars only had the dashboard vin.
There is a car in Ireland that has neither of these but has the vin stamped on the frame on the left side of the engine bay. I don't believe it is the standard 3 or 4 digit frame number.
I don't have the vin atm but hope to find out.
I have also emailed Thomas who looks after the Delorean registry at txDMC.org to get his thoughts.
Thanks,
Kenny

[Dangermouse]

I think a few don't have the windscreen plate.

And a car with a replacement tub may not have the jamb plate, but that's unlikely in Ireland. And it's not how it left the factory.

Iirc, Keith McC has one without the usual plates but a different sort of plate in the engine bay.

[David T]

Almost anything is possible but the most likely explanation is the plates were removed after the car was made. My suspicion would be the car may have been stolen at some point in the past.

[kenny]

Thanks, I will chat to Keith, I will post a pic if I manage to get one

[Citizen]

I have also emailed Thomas who looks after the Delorean registry at txDMC.org to get his thoughts.


Email sent in return.

But to add to it, Kenny, if you do find the number from the plate in the engine bay, please let me know. I can do a reverse lookup, and find the VIN that was "supposed" to go with that frame number (provided of course, it is a frame number and that we have that frame number on file, and no, we don't have ALL of them).

Thomas

...

[Dangermouse]

Thanks, I will chat to Keith, I will post a pic if I manage to get one

So is it the same car? Or a different one from Keith?

[David T]

So is it the same car? Or a different one from Keith?

Every frame has a steel plate tack welded to the frame on the left/rear by the motor. It was probably used for inventory purposes and has no relation to the vin #. There was also no record keeping of the engine or transmission serial #'s. There IS a small index file of 3 X 5 cards DMCH has which does correlate the frame # to a vin # for some of the early cars. You might get lucky and actually find the frame # in it of your car. You might also find a partial vin inside your doors. Who owned it last? What does the Title say? If there is no identifying vin # you are going to have a hard time titling and registering it. By looking at the car you can at least narrow down what year it is by some of the car's characteristics. Some clues are the hood, the tailpipes, radio, pull straps, and antennae. If this is your car how did you buy it? Does the Bill of Sale say anything?

[kenny]

To answer some of the questions,
It's not Keith's car, it's a newly imported car from the USA.
Irish customs called me as I was registered as having imported my car in the past and they are having difficulty registering the car as there are no vins on the dash or door but there is one in the engine bay. I don't think they are talking about the frame number.
I sent them photos of what is normally on a car including the frame number.
I have asked for the vin number that is on the car/ title so will keep ye updated.
I know from the production changes you can narrow the cars vin down to a relatively small series of numbers.
It's a pity the car is the other end of the country as it has my interest.

[dmcjohn]

To answer some of the questions,
It's not Keith's car, it's a newly imported car from the USA.
Irish customs called me as I was registered as having imported my car in the past and they are having difficulty registering the car as there are no vins on the dash or door but there is one in the engine bay. I don't think they are talking about the frame number.
I sent them photos of what is normally on a car including the frame number.
I have asked for the vin number that is on the car/ title so will keep ye updated.
I know from the production changes you can narrow the cars vin down to a relatively small series of numbers.
It's a pity the car is the other end of the country as it has my interest.

Hey Kenny! No way - I also got a call (via my Dad as one of my cars was originally registered at my parents address) from Irish revenue a few weeks back about a car being imported, and they were trying to confirm the location of the vin tags. The call was from the Limerick office. Wonder if it is regarding the same car? I told them the standard locations of the vin tags, and that they shouldn't expect to find one on the chassis itself, and he seemed happy enough. Hope whoever is importing the car can get it sorted.

John

[Dangermouse]

I wonder if it is 00537 that was for sale at Beverley Hill CC late last year. It was supposed to be on it's way to England, but it could have been Ireland

it was previously thought to have been destroyed.

And it doesn't have a VIN plate on the door jamb

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=33119&stc=1


but it does look to have one on the dash, but who knows what it says

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=33120&stc=1


Read all about it here:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10587-Vin-537-found!&highlight=destroyed

[David T]

I wonder if it is 00537 that was for sale at Beverley Hill CC late last year. It was supposed to be on it's way to England, but it could have been Ireland

it was previously thought to have been destroyed.

And it doesn't have a VIN plate on the door jamb

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=33119&stc=1


but it does look to have one on the dash, but who knows what it says

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=33120&stc=1



Read all about it here:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10587-Vin-537-found!&highlight=destroyed

If the car is being imported there has to be a vin on the paperwork. The authorities are trying to validate the car to the paperwork but if the 2 plates are missing that will be difficult.

[kenny]

Hey Kenny! No way - I also got a call (via my Dad as one of my cars was originally registered at my parents address) from Irish revenue a few weeks back about a car being imported, and they were trying to confirm the location of the vin tags. The call was from the Limerick office. Wonder if it is regarding the same car? I told them the standard locations of the vin tags, and that they shouldn't expect to find one on the chassis itself, and he seemed happy enough. Hope whoever is importing the car can get it sorted.

John

Hi John, good to hear from you.
Yes, it must be the same car. I had a call from the Donegal office but they are trying to register it in Limerick thru the Limerick office.
I have asked for the VIN number from the paperwork today but I have a feeling they may not be legally allowed to provide it to me (even after the help I have given them)
If I hear any more I will keep ye in the loop.

[Rich W]

<snip>

There was also no record keeping of the engine or transmission serial #'s.
<snip>



... except on the Shipping Manifest sheets. (but no transmission #'s)

33127

[David T]

... except on the Shipping Manifest sheets. (but no transmission #'s)

33127

That list is interesting, do we have a complete set or just a few pages from the early cars? For the car in Ireland if you could get the engine # that would validate the vin #.

[dn010]

That list is interesting, do we have a complete set or just a few pages from the early cars? For the car in Ireland if you could get the engine # that would validate the vin #.

I believe this is all that is available.
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10960-SHIPPING-VIN-s-560-to-1134-BLACK-INTERIOR-manifest-photos

[DMC5180]

Something I find interesting in that shipping manifest are the huge gaps in numbers the first VIN is 577 the last is 983 on the COLOR Page only. None of the numbers have a consecutive mate pairing IE: 648, 649 ETC.

When you see the pictures of cars Parked nose to tail waiting for shipment you would think there would be consecutive line ups some place when rolling off the line. I've often wondered what it would like being on the crew that has to constantly move the cars forward in those line ups and that goes for any Auto manufacture.

[DMCMW Dave]

I've often wondered what it would like being on the crew that has to constantly move the cars forward in those line ups and that goes for any Auto manufacture.

We were at the Port of Charleston SC a few years ago. This is where BMW ships out all the Z4 and SUV (X5 at the time) vehicles for export (all built in SC). It was an amazing sight of probably 50 drivers moving cars onto the ship from where they were staged after being unloaded from trucks. They drove them in a line to the carrier ship, and apparently then bussed the drivers back for the next batch. One of those logistics things you never think about.

[DMC5180]

We were at the Port of Charleston SC a few years ago. This is where BMW ships out all the Z4 and SUV (X5 at the time) vehicles for export (all built in SC). It was an amazing sight of probably 50 drivers moving cars onto the ship from where they were staged after being unloaded from trucks. They drove them in a line to the carrier ship, and apparently then bussed the drivers back for the next batch. One of those logistics things you never think about.


That would make sense.

[kenny]

Ok mystery solved.
I was in contact with the owner.
No surprise that customs officials got it wrong completely and confused everyone involved.
They wouldn't register the car as there was NO vin on the frame even though the owner and I told them there shouldn't be.
Car is Vin 3789, black auto, one owner car with 11,000 miles imported from the USA.

[David T]

Ok mystery solved.
I was in contact with the owner.
No surprise that customs officials got it wrong completely and confused everyone involved.
They wouldn't register the car as there was NO vin on the frame even though the owner and I told them there shouldn't be.
Car is Vin 3789, black auto, one owner car with 11,000 miles imported from the USA.

Since most cars DO have a vin # on the frame and they DID find a plate on the frame with a # on it that was NOT the vin, it can cause confusion.