Backlit Electronic Instrument Cluster

[dmc6960]

Imagine turning this...
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3415&d=1313084294

Into this...
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=3416&d=1313084295

Completely backlit, exact matching typefaces as original, illuminated needles, vacuum fluorescent odometer/trip meter, in either US or Metric display. Lets even dim them with a rotatable trip reset shaft. No more fragile dimmer on the shifter plate, do whatever you want with it now.

But it doesn't end there...

Imagine eliminating the angle drive. Take it off and replace it with something like this...
http://www.dakotadigital.com/cartimages/prd_sp_42.jpg

Now you have a completely self-contained electronic speedometer and odometer. Your trip reset shaft now becomes a selection button to switch between a full 6 digit odometer (not a 5+.1!), trip meter, and even a realtime digital speed readout. Gone are the problems with a jumpy needle, lack of 100,000+ mile accounting, rusting cables, flaky lambda counter, and of course that pesky angle drive. 85mph, 140mph, or 240km/h? Take your pick.

What about the rest of the gauges? Many people tell you to refer to them as an approximation of what the car is doing. Well imaging being able to completely trust everything they tell you. True voltage, true engine RPM, true oil pressure, true engine temp. Imagine even getting a flashing warning light if your engine is overheating. How about an RPM gauge that returns and stays at 0 when the engine is off!

What about that fuel gauge and low fuel light? Never worked right? Well how about replacing it with a now drop-in generic unit? Like one of the ones from here - http://www.egauges.com/vdo_send.asp?Sender=VDO_Adjustable, all while maintaining complete compatability with original senders, reproduction senders, and TankZillas. Sounds good? I think smart-dampened gauge pointing is even better. Instead of showing you the real time float position, lets average it over 30-60 seconds, and show you that value. Now accelerating uphill or stopping downhill will no longer have a dramatic affect on its accuracy. And how about a nice fluid motion through the whole empty-full range? Yes we can. Lets also trigger that low fuel light a little more smartly. No flickering once its getting low, just turn the darn thing on and leave it on for a minute (assuming its just barely flickering). Now you wont miss it and you should go get gas now.

What if you want an external device to trigger the LAMBDA light when needed? Well just plug in to the original LAMBDA counter plug. No need to worry about loosing your service counter, thats all handled electronically now.

While we're at it, lets also ditch that Mylar flex board with its copper contacts that are always lifting up and shorting out, every single time you pull out the binnacle/cluster. Gone they are!

All this, and maybe even more, are being worked on right now. I posted about possibly doing this back on the .com forum, so now that I actually am doing this, I figured I'd start a new thread about it. This will be a DROP IN REPLACEMENT unit for the whole instrument cluster. Remove binnacle, remove cluster, swap plastic lens, install new cluster into binnacle, replace binnacle. Remove angle drive, replace with new electronic sender. Hook up (possibly) two additional power and ground lines. Replace fuse #5, bypass stock dimmer, done. Optionally replace fuel sender, temp sender, and oil pressure sender as well.

I'm working towards a goal of having a complete unit for display at DCS'12. If enough testing is done at that point, perhaps also sell them there. This is something I've wanted to do since I bought my car 11 years ago. I am now making it happen.

[Farrar]

Jim, I was thinking of working on something similar, but I will now cease my work and wait for your project to bear fruit... whilst I save my pennies to buy one post-2012.

Looking forward to your progress!

Farrar

[DavidProehl]

Looks awesome Jim!

Do you know if rolling/analog style odometers exist that could plug into what you are setting up so they look original? I bet once you have this setup swapping in new parts that have an original appearance will be simple for those that are interested.

You are doing a lot right here. Can't wait to see it in operation!

[Bitsyncmaster]

Jim, I was thinking of working on something similar, but I will now cease my work and wait for your project to bear fruit... whilst I save my pennies to buy one post-2012.

Looking forward to your progress!

Farrar

Hope you use a big jar.:wiggle:

That is one beautiful looking panel. I still think your to optimistic setting that date but at least you will have something to show.

[1batt4u]

Its funny, I was going to start a thread on this right now, till I saw this!!

I just got my new gauge cluster from DMCH, cause mine is a little faded and worned out!

I rememeber someone on the old forum started a thread on a illuminating cluster!!

Good to see this thread went up, I really hope it happens soon!!!

[TTait]

I met with a vendor recently to discuss electronic speedometers, and one thing that bothered me was that they reported that they could not set the starting value for the odometer, it just started at 0. I'm proud of the miles on my car, and for the most part the odometer is accurate. Any chance of setting it with your unit?

Also, you didn't mention it but I presume your system also offers easy and precise speedometer calibration with any size tire/wheel combination. Yes?

Kudos - and good luck - this should be nice.

[vwdmc16]

I so want.....

[john 05141]

Wooow... very very interesting!!!
I also hope this project actually comes to life! Although no problems with mine, I do not care about a 100% original car, but like modern updates.

2 things come into my mind reading this;
-I hate green dashboard lights, so are other colors an option?
-What does this look like at daytime?

John

[Mike C.]

:yesss:

If you make this, I may not sell my car!!! Seriously, I hate the night time with the current panel lighting.

Any chance of making the colors changeable?

[dmc6960]

DavidProehl - Unfortunately I do not think mechanical rolling numbers will be possible with this setup. While it would be possible to control them electronically, there will probably not be any room behind the front panel for the mechanism for it. Trying to keep with the period look, a Vacuum Fluorescent Display (like I have simulated in the picture) is the current plan for the odometer/trip meter as they were available in the early 80's. Right now I've been having trouble sourcing a simple small 6-digit unit, but that is the plan.

TTait - Yes, the odometer can be pre-set at purchase, but will not be user-configurable in the car. I am also proud of the miles on my car, having well over 100,000 on it. This way with the 6 full digits, you will actually know it now. With regards to wheel size it can technically be calibrated for anything, but it probably couldn't be user-calibrated like many of those universal speedometers you can buy. If there are one or two other tire/wheel sizes there seems to be a consensus on, I could put a user-configurable jumper in it to change the setting.

john 05141 - The goal is for it to look 99% stock at daytime. Just look at your existing cluster, and imagine an electronic odometer in place of the mechanical one. Erase the trip meter.

john 05141 and Mike - While I hadn't planned on making other colors available, there is no technical reason I couldn't do it. The green color is to match the look obtained with the HVAC decal. Many OEM gauges (including our HVAC decal) use incadescent lights with complex acrylic piping to evenly illuminate the them. Different color (ex. white at day, green at night) is obtained by a green layer on the backside of the decal. To reduce costs, I have to have a specific design for the decals and have them made in bulk. However, since this will be directly backlit with LEDs (no light-piping), the decals can be made from a single layer. The alternate color of illumination is then obtained by a specific color LED. By simply installing a different color LED in those specific spots, a different color can be obtained. Be aware though that the color of the VFD cannot be changed. It is also important to note that these will not be drop-in LEDs. They will be considered non-user-replaceable surface mount units soldered directly to the PCB. I will provide specs for LED replacement which an electronics repair specialist could perform if necessary after many many years of use.

[Mark D]

I am definitely interested in buying one of these when they become available. Keep us all posted on progress!

[Ashyukun]

I'd definitely be all for this, especially if we could customize the color of the lights- my own cluster has all the white lights replaced with red for better night vision (though I need to do something about the stupidly bright green light for the headlights... I need a photocell for that so it's bright enough to see in the daytime and then dims considerably at night).

The replacement for the angle drive is particularly of interest to me since it would make one more thing much easier on the car: hooking up an aftermarket cruise control. I could do away with occasionally touchy magnet system I have now and just hook the new VSS up to the cruise control and have it run off of that. You could even natively put an extra connector on the setup to tap off for either a cruise system or for another accessory (like a BTTF digital speedometer) to pull a speed reading from...

[TTait]

If you want to go nuts, you could build the lighting with red, green, and blue leds, individually or with rgb modules. With the right driver you can select preset colors or even mix most any color you can think of. RGB would also mix to white.

I figured that I might do something to update my display one day, but I was waiting for electronic paper displays to get a little more mature. In a couple years I think we'll be able to put in two side by side e-paper displays, and make them look like anything...

[jfirios]

Okay now I am chomping at the bit for two things for my car. One is the Double din adapter that I cant wait to have finished and now the back lit binicle. I definately want it. If you can have it in Blue led, That would be awesome. WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN?
I am finishing up all the engine and suspension and electrical and exhaust upgrades now and wanting to start the interior upgrades soon.
When when when when.

[ed uding]

Respect Jim, I know what a hard work it can be to come up with some new.
I am in for a unit as well.

Regards Ed
www.delorean.eu

[DMC5180]

I need to do something about the stupidly bright green light for the headlights... I need a photocell for that so it's bright enough to see in the daytime and then dims considerably at night).


Don't use LED's in that location. They are annoyingly bright.

Replace those bulbs with a lower watt type: You only see them at night anyway.

161 (3W) 14V 13 lumens I think I use this one. But, I have not been in the Cluster in years. The intensity in my cluster is much less in that location than the signal indicators

194NA (4W) 14V 19 lumens This has a greenish coating on it.

194 (4W) 14V 27 lumens I use 194G ( green) 25 lumens for cluster illumination I wish it was a little brighter. I don't think they make a 168G though. Green LEDS are Too Bright IMO.

168 (5W) 14V 38 lumens

[Domi]

Awesome project, keep us informed pleased :)

[jfirios]

Oh, don't miss understand. I do know how much work it is to do something like that. I custom made a lot of stuff for my last car. I am just very happy someone is doing it. Looking forward to seeing it done and in my car :)

[dvonk]

badass. i like mods that improve the look/functionality while maintaining the 'stock' feel. :headbang:

[Farrar]

WHEN WHEN WHEN WHEN?
When when when when.

Read post #1 in this thread. Your answer is there there there there, there there there there.

Patience is important when your car is 30 years old...

Farrar

[dmc6960]

So now, lets talk about the history of this project...

Like every DeLorean owner, the first time they drive at night after getting the car, I was sorely disappointed. Are you seriously telling me that this car has a nice backlit HVAC panel like modern cars, but then has this crummy overhead lit instrument cluster?

Three months after I got my car it went in for winter storage, but not the cluster. I pulled out the binnacle and brought it home. Then proceeded to disassemble everything about it. I learned much about how it all works. Technology used is direct actuated air-core motors for the temp, fuel, and oil gauges. They read resistance off of each sensor. Volt meter is a D'Arsonval Movement Meter (almost the same as an air-core motor). Tachometer is an air-core motor controlled by a small analog circuit board. The speedometer is a standard cable driven mechanical (Eddy Current) unit. Odometer and trip meter attached via gearing directly to the input, and the needle driven by a rotating magnet.

History lesson - Speedometer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedometer

The eddy current speedometer has been used for over a century and is still in widespread use. Until the 1980s and the appearance of electronic speedometers it was the only type commonly used.

Originally patented by a German, Otto Schulze on 7 October 1902,[2] it uses a rotating flexible cable usually driven by gearing linked to the output of the vehicle's transmission. The early Volkswagen Beetle and many motorcycles, however, use a cable driven from a front wheel.

A small permanent magnet affixed to the rotating cable interacts with a small aluminum cup (called a speedcup) attached to the shaft of the pointer on the analogue instrument. As the magnet rotates near the cup, the changing magnetic field produces eddy currents in the cup, which themselves produce another magnetic field. The effect is that the magnet exerts a torque on the cup, "dragging" it, and thus the speedometer pointer, in the direction of its rotation with no mechanical connection between them.[1]

The pointer shaft is held toward zero by a fine torsion spring. The torque on the cup increases with the speed of rotation of the magnet (which is driven by the car's transmission). Thus an increase in the speed of the car will twist the cup and speedometer pointer against the spring. The cup and pointer will turn until the torque of the eddy currents on the cup is balanced by the opposing torque of the spring, and then stop. Since the torque on the cup is exactly proportional to the car's speed, and the spring's deflection is proportional to the torque, the angle of the pointer is also proportional to the speed. At a given speed the pointer will remain motionless and pointing to the appropriate number on the speedometer's dial.

The return spring is calibrated such that a given revolution speed of the cable corresponds to a specific speed indication on the speedometer. This calibration must take into account several factors, including ratios of the tailshaft gears that drive the flexible cable, the final drive ratio in the differential, and the diameter of the driven tires.

History Lesson - Air-Core Motors - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_core_gauge

The air core gauge consists of two independent, perpendicular coils surrounding a hollow chamber. A needle shaft protrudes into the chamber, where a permanent magnet is affixed to the shaft. When current flows through the perpendicular coils, their magnetic fields superimpose and the magnet is free to align with the combined fields.

History Lesson - D'Arsonval Movement Meter - http://www.engineersedge.com/instrumentation/electrical_meters_measurement/darsonval_movement.htm

A commonly used sensing mechanism used in DC ammeters, voltmeters, and ohm meters is a current-sensing device called a D’Arsonval meter movement. The D’Arsonval movement is a DC moving coil-type movement in which an electromagnetic core is suspended between the poles of a permanent magnet.

The current measured is directed through the coils of the electromagnet so that the magnetic field produced by the current opposes the field of the permanent magnet and causes rotation of the core. The core is restrained by springs so that the needle will deflect or move in proportion to the current intensity. The more current applied to the core, the stronger the opposing field, and the larger the deflection, up to the limit of the current capacity of the coil. When the current is interrupted, the opposing field collapses, and the needle is returned to zero by the restraining springs. The limit of the current that can be applied to this type movement is usually less than one milliampere.

So back in the winter of 2000/2001...
This is when I first took apart a cluster. Upon removal of each gauge, I discovered that due to their construction there is no open space behind them for any lighting. This goes for EVERY gauge...
3788
When I first discovered this, I needed to figure out an alternate way to do the backlighting. I was contemplating the idea of re-molding every gauge face in clear acrylic. Lights would then illuminate at the end of it, and carefully placed scores in the plastic would light up the spots under the numbering. I was able to obtain a complete extra set of non-functional gauges I could used for experimenting and prototyping. I had done high-resolution scans of the gauges and started cleaning them up. I had posted feelers out on the DML about the project. Unfortunately by the end of 2002, it started seeming like the concept would not work well enough. It started to require significant modifications to the cluster housing, something I didn't want to do. It also was looking less and less like I would be able to retain a completely stock appearance, which was the #1 requirement. The final nail in this was the cost needed to mold new plastic. So the original project was stopped and all extra parts associated with it were boxed up for later use.

Back in 2008, I got a new idea. Unlike the 2001 project which required significant investment (plastic molding = $$$), this new idea could be a simple one-off job for my own car. The idea came to me as I was throwing out (technically recycling) a bunch of laptops where I work. Disassembling one of the laptop screens revealed a perfect piece of translucent plastic. It was thin, had a slight taper, and had formed grooves to illuminate the LCD's backlight.
3787
The backlight itself is a really thin cold fluorescent tube. The idea now was to remove the gauge faces, simply glue the newly cutout plastic to the metal housings of each gauge, and attach the backlight to the top of the cluster. Over the next year I collected several old LCD displays. Unfortunately by now, I started having speedometer issues. I figured as long as I would be irreversibly modifying my own cluster to do this, how about I graft an electronic speedometer on as well. So now we're ballooning again. In the junkyard I found the near-perfect replacement. From a mid-late 90's Nissan Maxima, it was 140mph in a 270º sweep, had a 6-digit ODO on top of the needle, and a 4-digit TRIP below the needle. The trip letters were a little extra spaced, and the reset arm was in a different spot, but everything else about it made it seem like a perfect match.
3786
I had done some experiments with it, hooked it up to its speed sensor. The speed sensor though was going to need a logic box inbetween it and the speedometer though, as it would not turn at the correct speed when attached where the angle drive would be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uChdQYUB0T4


While rummaging through cluster after cluster at the junkyard, an entirely new concept came to be realized. All of the new cars I had been taking apart now used completely digitally controlled clusters. Gone were the mechanical speedometers, heck gone even are the electronic speedometers with mechanical rolling numbers. Everything is 100% electronic, all contained on a single circuit board. Needles are now driven by stepper motors, no longer air-core motors. What if, just WHAT IF, I could build a completely new cluster, which would eliminate every problem known on ours. This would solve the problem of backlighting. No longer would I need to deal with light-pipes. I could just illuminate the gauges directly behind them because there would be space now. I can also inexpensively build a new housing to contain it all. I would still need new molded plastic for the front and sides of the gauges. However now I have a product that a LOT of people might be interested in, this could easily cover the investment necessary for that, along with the design and printing of the backlit decals, IC programming, circuit board design, etc. I put a feeler out for it back on DMCTalk.com, shortly before the crash. It generated enough interest that I began the necessary investments to design the project. I have sources for many of the components I'm going to need. The project is moving now, even better than expected. I'll be posting regular updates as I have them, but if a month goes by without a good update to report on then so be it.

Next up will be a detailed photo anatomy of the stock instrument cluster...

[Farrar]

Jim,

Awesome update! Nice to see where this is coming from.

Farrar

[dvonk]

+1, i like the evolution of your idea. looking forward to further updates! :)

[john 05141]

Glad to read a blue color is possible. I read I am not the only one in favor of a blue color. I can hardly wait, I want one as well!!

I do not drive that often in the dark, but it is a great feature. But the digital counter is what catches my eye the most.
Please update us.

John

[Farrar]

Glad to read a blue color is possible.

Me too; I have blue for the other controls in the car thanks to white LEDs behind the green plastic.

Farrar

[TheDutchTexan]

+1 On blue! By the time I get my DeLorean there will be so many more disirable parts available!

It al started with repro torsion bars that are supposed to be better than the originals, and now... it goes on!

[ydjk58]

Definitely a +1 for the blue, espicially something like the ice/light blue used in new fords, or maybe as was suggested, an RGB LED set up for customization. I do believe newer mustangs have that.

[dmcjohn]

Definitely a +1 for the blue, espicially something like the ice/light blue used in new fords, or maybe as was suggested, an RGB LED set up for customization. I do believe newer mustangs have that.

Yep - the new mustangs have this - I had a rental 2011 mustang for a few weeks this summer and loved the feature where you could choose the backlit colour (and halo ring around the edges) of the dash gauges. You could also choose a colour for the footwell lights and the illuminated Mustang text on the doorsill. I'd be very interested in getting this into my DMC also!

John

[john 05141]

I have a very dim blue light in my footwells. You hardly notice it unless it is pitch dark. They are simple blue LEDs I masked a little to dim the light to perection.
I have another such LED next to the rear shelf light. It lightens up behind the cargo net with a fine bluinsh light at night, very nice. They go on when I turn on the lights.
I had pictures on the old forum, I do not have them anymore, but if some wants, I'll make a new picture.

John

[jfirios]

great update, I am really looking forward to being able to get the cluster from you. I think the Blue is incredible, well also because all my special lights are going to be blue in the car. :) Looking forward to getting one when you are finished. Great work.

[deloman]

Jim! This is a very interesting project and I like it very well.
THUMBS UP from the other side of the atlantic ocean! :thumbup:

[Twilight_Fenrir]

Wow, I don't even have a DeLorean yet, but I want one of these :P That's a thing of beauty.

[dvonk]

Wow, I don't even have a DeLorean yet, but I want one of these :P That's a thing of beauty.

+1. im already buying some accessories i know i want to use with/in my DeLorean.

[DavidProehl]

I was at Jim's over the weekend and saw some of the material he is planning to print the gauges on...looks fantastic. He demoed how the backlight will be able to shine through. This is going to be an impressive unit when completed. He is looking at using the same 3M material used in Cessna airplane gauges. Jim really knows what he is doing with this.

[Farrar]

He is looking at using the same 3M material used in Cessna airplane gauges.

Oof. My wallet hurts already. :lol:

Farrar

[Ashyukun]

Oof. My wallet hurts already. :lol:

Farrar
Sounds like you've at least got some time to save up for it, at least. ;)

[DMC5180]

He is looking at using the same 3M material used in Cessna airplane gauges. Jim really knows what he is doing with this.

Slight correction here. That would be Cirrus Aircraft (not Cessna). Jim is the Lead Man on the project. But is getting a little help sourcing here and there. :biggrin:

Don't fret! The 3M material is a commercial product not just for aircraft. The piece part cost should be reasonable in small quantity once the initial artwork is finished.

[Jeff K]

Just awesome!

[robvanderveer]

Pictures please?

[Nicholas R]

What about this? Is it the same project?

http://www.az-d.org/indiglo.html
http://www.az-d.org/elglo.jpg
http://www.az-d.org/DkBlElGlo.jpg
http://www.az-d.org/DkBlElGlo2.jpg

[dn010]

What about this? Is it the same project?

http://www.az-d.org/indiglo.html
http://www.az-d.org/elglo.jpg
http://www.az-d.org/DkBlElGlo.jpg
http://www.az-d.org/DkBlElGlo2.jpg



That kit is something that AZ-D offers-apparently for some time now, which is why I didn't understand the hype over this post....

[DavidProehl]

That kit is something that AZ-D offers-apparently for some time now, which is why I didn't understand the hype over this post....

I think the excitement is around an entirely new cluster. What Jim is working on isn't just an overlay, he is working on modernized gauges that you can actually trust in addition to the back lighting.

[robvanderveer]

What about this? Is it the same project?

http://www.az-d.org/indiglo.html
http://www.az-d.org/elglo.jpg
http://www.az-d.org/DkBlElGlo.jpg
http://www.az-d.org/DkBlElGlo2.jpg

I have that very same speedhut kit installed in my D, but I never managed to get a picture like that! Buyers beware..

[SIMid]

Jus tto throw a spanner in the conversation, has anyone thought of ultraviolet light? Will it light up the white graphics on the cluster?

Just an idea.

But I do like what Nicholas posted up, looks great!

[Nicholas R]

Jus tto throw a spanner in the conversation, has anyone thought of ultraviolet light? Will it light up the white graphics on the cluster?

Just an idea.

But I do like what Nicholas posted up, looks great!

You know I've never thought about that but it would be kind of neat. Heck the gauges are already white; I'll bet even just a thin uv light bar or strip would make it pop. Hmmm...

Also it looks to me like the illuminated gauges I just posted are just decals that have all the numbers clear with electroluminescent strips behind it. Could be mistaken though...

[SIMid]

You know I've never thought about that but it would be kind of neat. Heck the gauges are already white; I'll bet even just a thin uv light bar or strip would make it pop. Hmmm......

When running the unltraviolet light, you really dont see any light at all. Plus you could just get new graphics printed with luminous colours and they would glow at night. Just thoughts messing around in my head. :lol:

[dmc6960]

The SpeedHut EL decals are most definitely NOT the same. Those decals are rather lackluster in person. They do not even closely match the typeface of the original cluster, are very monotone at night, bleed light through their edges, and don't solve the problem on non-backlit needles. Not to mention your still running a completely original cluster with all of it's disadvantages.

UV illumination is something I've tried as well. The red and yellow light up very nicely, but that is it. The white lettering, blue lettering, and the needles are all as dark as could be under UV light.

I havent had much to update about this lately, but I hope to within the next week or so have a full breakdown about the entire stock cluster, it's specific weaknesses, and what will specifically be improved upon with the new one.

[Farrar]

Thread bump! Any news? :)

Farrar

[dmc6960]

As with everything anybody does life slows you down.

What I do have...

Limited working software to drive the stepper motors for the needles. Still needs lots of refinement though and I'm trying to obtain specific driver IC chips for them which will make them work much nicer. Minimum order requirements: 100/pcs @ $6.50/each. That fine for producing 50 dashes, but not so fine for prototyping to see how well it would work.

Also have a lead on a plastics manufacturing company which has done low volume production for reasonable rates. Conveniently they are only 2 miles from my home so working with them should be easy (keyword: should).

I had also brought my spare cluster and the sample backlit decals to the Minnesota Fall Apple Orchard gathering to show how the design is currently working out.

Also now that I finally found the battery for my good camera I can get some high-res photos of the sample decals and more details about the stock cluster and writeup some more info on what is changing.

Stay Tuned....

[Farrar]

Cool beans, Jim! I just wanted to make sure you hadn't given up on the project. :-)

Farrar

[Mike C.]

That's awesome Jim! Keep it up!

[dvonk]

+1, im excited about this and i dont even have a D yet... :wiggle:

[deloreanz]

I have experience and a good source for rapid prototyping if you're considering using any sort of additive manufacturing for a prototype or mold.

[Farrar]

Thread bump!

Any progress? 8)

[dmc6960]

Yes, still progressing. No new good details to report yet. But certainly still progressing.

On a side note, if anyone can figure out a way to obtain ONE or TWO of these chips...

http://mcrmotorusa.com/IC%20Drivers.html

Or compatible Switec M-S Quad Driver X12.017

It would be a spectacular help. They should be the *key* to a good fluid needle. However the only manufacturer/distributor I've found of them or equivalents will only sell by the case. A box of 100 at $6.50 each. I dont want to buy the whole damn case until I know for sure I can get the electronics to work right. They've told me their "dealer" network only sells their stepper motors.

So there's a little preview of the costs which will be involved in development of this. That box of 100 costing $650 will supply *ONE* component needed twice in each dash, enough for 50 dash units. Fortunately not many other components will have such a high minimum purchase requirement.

[dmc6960]

On a side note, if anyone can figure out a way to obtain ONE or TWO of these chips...

http://mcrmotorusa.com/IC%20Drivers.html

Or compatible Switec M-S Quad Driver X12.017


Also compatible is a VID66-06 or VID66-08 chip. These are all manufactured in China and seem to only sell in even larger quantities than I can get the other one for. They are all cross-compatible.

***BOUNTY***

If anyone can find me a small quantity (or individual) of these for a reasonable price, I will reward you with $20 or a more substantial discount on the finished product.

[sphiend]

There seems to be a bunch of stepper motor ic's on eBay available in small quantities. I know nothing about this stuff but thought perhaps you could have a look there.

Search eBay for stepper motor ic

[dmc6960]

I have easy access to the actual stepper motors. They are sold by everyone to replace the original bad ones on mid-2000's GM vehicles.

What I'm looking for is a source for new IC driver chips which effortlessly drive the stepper motors in a smooth fluid motion. I've found several compatible chips, but no source to buy a small quantity of them for prototyping.

http://mcrmotorusa.com/IC%20Drivers.html
MS Quad Driver X12.017
VID66-06
VID66-08

[ramblinmike]

mouser.com seems to have a bunch of driver chips available individually.

[dmc6960]

Small Update...

Dedicated "specific" driver chips are assumed to be not available right now, based on my refusal to buy a very large quantity without knowing if I can get them to work right.

On that note, I have progressed with programming a chip to drive the stepper motor directly. Its a crude program, one for forwards and one for reverse, nothing linking the two or varying how fast it moves and nothing to stop it (except the stepper's physical stop).

BUT IT WORKS.

As I have time on Sunday and Monday to further refine the program, I'll take a video and post it up.

[DMC5180]

Jim,

Have you contacted any of the Driver chip suppliers to see if you can get developmental "Samples". Usually "off the shelf" component suppliers will work with you even if your only a small fish. Was there anything available at Digikey,Newark,Allied or Mouser?

[dmc6960]

Have you contacted any of the Driver chip suppliers to see if you can get developmental "Samples". Usually "off the shelf" component suppliers will work with you even if your only a small fish. Was there anything available at Digikey,Newark,Allied or Mouser?

This is a very specific type of driver chip, probably very uncommon with hobbyists. None of the common major electronics distributors have anything even close. I've contacted MCR and Juken Swiss Technology about samples. MCR said no, minimum order is 100 at $6.50 each; and there was no response from Juken.

In other news, after this weekend's foray in my first extended go with PIC programming....

[dmc6960]

I now have a basic control of the stepper motor destined to drive the needles for the gauges...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Y4iUdh8A4

This is running a preset program which is turning it 300º in each direction, with a 1 second pause between each rotation.

Next step is to control its movement and position with a potentiometer. This will simulate the oil pressure, engine temp, and fuel level senders; and provide complete proof-of-concept with everything I need to do. If I am successful in doing this, I will likely not even need the dedicated driver chips I talked about earlier.

Progress is here.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Looks good. Even looks fast enought to use for the tach. Another guy getting into software to replace our 70's hardware :giggle:

[dmc6960]

And it should be able to go at least twice as fast as this, with proper acceleration curves built into the program. (That part is still beyond what I've accomplished). This seems to be the fastest it can go reliably without missing a step.

To finish my next goal, I need to divide an 8 or 10 bit ADC code into the number 150 or less, then write some if/thens to add/subtract X (the difference between Y [the current position of the stepper] and Z [the ADC code, the desired value of Y]), to/from Y.

My first attempt at reading how to do this (the chip doesn't actually divide) had my head spinning faster than that motor. My first reads on the if/thens were at least mostly comprehended.

[robvanderveer]

To get your prototype working, i suggest you use a higher level cpu/platform to experiment with the hardware. I've had amazing experiences with Netduino or TinyClr, both C#, .Net capable, step through debugging, full programming support. Their prototype boards are about the size of a deck of cards.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Just shift the 8 bit value to the right one place to divide by 2. Hence you will get a number from 0 to 127.

For 10 bit shift it 3 times for the same 0 to 127 number.

That is how you divide in assembler code with simple CPUs.. To divide by other exponents, you can manipulate a few shifts and add the two values.

[dmc6960]

To get your prototype working, i suggest you use a higher level cpu/platform to experiment with the hardware. I've had amazing experiences with Netduino or TinyClr, both C#, .Net capable, step through debugging, full programming support. Their prototype boards are about the size of a deck of cards.

Thats a bit more complex than I need for this project. I should be able to control both the Volt/Temp gauge with a single PIC16 chip, both the Oil/Fuel gauge with a single PIC16 chip, the Tach with a single PIC16 or 18 chip, and the Speedo likely a single PIC18 chip.

This whole project is a start-from-scratch learning for me. Too easy to go over my head so I'm keeping each step very simple. Starting with the simple gauges then working my way up.

[dmc6960]

Ordered 6 .30" 7-segment green LED displays for experimental use for the odometer. A Vacuum florescent display is going to be DOA, as there are no commercially available ones in the package/size I need. Not to mention that in general the LED displays are several times cheaper AND have the ability to be built in different colors. There are .28" ones available as well, but I'm going to try the .30" ones first. FYI the vertical opening on the speedometer for the odo display is .28".

Color update - Backlighting WILL be available in 3 colors; Green, Red, and Blue. These are the most commonly requested colors. Green backlit will have alternate colors for all the alternately colored labels (red, yellow, and blue). The red and blue backlighting will wait and see how it looks before determining those other colors. Odometer colors will be green (normal), with red and blue optionally. If it is ever desired to switch colors of the backlight (like a person's different preference if the car is sold), the unit can be returned and colors switched for a small fee. Unfortunately RGB 7-segment displays are not available in the extreme small size needed, thus a user-adjustable color can not be an option.

After this project is done (at least a year from now) I may consider building a replacement A/C decal in the unavailable most-desired style (Type 2 or 3 here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1640-HVAC-panel-Ouline-vs.-Solid-Lettering-VIN-cut-offs&p=20511&viewfull=1#post20511)), LED backlit, which will have the option to plug-in to the new cluster for matched dimming. Color options will be the same as the cluster.

[robvanderveer]

For proper 'old school' display, this would be way cool:

http://blog.onlineclock.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/vacuum-tube-clock.jpg

[Bitsyncmaster]

For proper 'old school' display, this would be way cool:

http://blog.onlineclock.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/vacuum-tube-clock.jpg

Nixi tubes. Were the only option until 1970.

[dvonk]

nixie tubes are totally sweet... i don't think theyd match the interior though :wink:

[AdmiralSenn]

After this project is done (at least a year from now) I may consider building a replacement A/C decal in the unavailable most-desired style (Type 2 or 3 here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1640-HVAC-panel-Ouline-vs.-Solid-Lettering-VIN-cut-offs&p=20511&viewfull=1#post20511)), LED backlit, which will have the option to plug-in to the new cluster for matched dimming. Color options will be the same as the cluster.

Just curious, would these black out with the key off? If so, consider one sold whenever you get around to it.

[Farrar]

If I may ask a question out of ignorance: why did you decide to use multiple ICs instead of a PIC with multiple inputs and outputs like an Arduino? I ask only because I have seen a BMW gauge cluster driven by an Arduino and I think it had the same number of gauges as our cars. Thanks, and sorry if it's a dumb question!

Farrar

[Bitsyncmaster]

If I may ask a question out of ignorance: why did you decide to use multiple ICs instead of a PIC with multiple inputs and outputs like an Arduino? I ask only because I have seen a BMW gauge cluster driven by an Arduino and I think it had the same number of gauges as our cars. Thanks, and sorry if it's a dumb question!

Farrar

That's a good question. If you have dedicated simple routines than it's better to use many small micros. With large complicated software, you make a simple change in one routine and a bug creeps into something you never intended to change. It also makes circuit board layout much cleaner. These small micros cost from 50 cents to a few bucks. If you use interrupts then that can change the timing anytime you make a software change. We run into this problem at my day job. We share a 700 pin FPGA on a circuit board and when one user makes a change in that FPGA it messes up a lot of other logic timing.

[Farrar]

That makes perfect sense. Thanks, Dave!

Farrar

[dmc6960]

Just curious, would these black out with the key off? If so, consider one sold whenever you get around to it.

As of right now, no they will no black out. I need to keep consistent parts to try and keep this affordable for people. Too late to back out now anyways Adam, you already commited on one back at the beginning of the thread! :evilgrin:

I will ask if it's possible for a blackout face when getting the main decals printed. If its not horrible, I may let people choose it for an additional cost.

[dmc6960]

If I may ask a question out of ignorance: why did you decide to use multiple ICs instead of a PIC with multiple inputs and outputs

Dave pretty much answered it all. However these chips do have multiple in's and out's. While my software is still in its infancy, the side gauges will be sharing a single PIC with the software loop just going back and fourth updating the gauges. Really easy since none of them have consistent rapid updating like the tach and speedo will. The tach is going to need to interpret the odd-fire RPM signal and update the stepper position sometimes before it even reaches it so the needle doesn't stop-start or overrun the speed. The speedometer will need to keep several odometers in addition to rapid updates.

[DMC5180]

So the gauges will be lit at all times when the key is on? Even with the visible graphics? Will the graphics be color matched or translucent clear/white for the various color options?

[dmc6960]

No they will not be lit at all times. Only with the parking/headlights. IF I made a blackout version I would need to modify the back lights to be on extra bright during the day.

Only what is white right now will still be translucent white. Normal illumination color for those will be green. Other colors will be their normal tint and illuminate in those colors. See image in first post of this thread.

Right now the other color options will only be able to do the white lettering (everything green in that first post photo). Once the first set of decals are made I'll play around will all the colors.

Along with the PIC progamming I'm doing now, I'm also making the vector graphics for the decals. Doing much of this work myself should help keep costs down. I'll post visuals of them as I get them completed.

[jmrydholm]

This is very cool. I like!

[dmc6960]

Well I've done it. I've created software that simulates real life movement of the pointer needle based of a variable input. Its crude software, and leaves out many functions that will later be incorporated. However this proof-of-concept confirms that it can certainly be done.

In the video, it starts off at a random position, rotates completely counter-clockwise, has a 1 second pause, then jumps about 10º clockwise just to back off a little from the internal stop. After another 2 second delay, it reads the position of the potentiometer and moves the needle to that position. Subsequent moving of the POT then moves the needle in the corresponding direction. You'll notice a bit of jitter in the movement, best I can tell this is due to noise from the POT itself, its a pretty weak unit. The in-car sensors will provide much more fluid movement. Also, the motor is currently moving in 2º increments, while the final design will have it moving in 1/3º increments, so it will appear completely fluid.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJrdOb3aZkc

[Bitsyncmaster]

Very cool. Now your getting pretty good writing code.8)

[DavidProehl]

Nicely done! :thumbup2: Great to see the steady progress you are making.

[robvanderveer]

To stop the erratic fluctiations of the needle due to false readings of the pot you can always add a running average function to the input (or output). Say for example you take 10 readings a second, take the average of the last 10 readings using a circular buffer. The processor should have to problem doing that. No only does this dampen any off readings, it also provides for a smooth tweaning of the needle without any complex logic. For even smoother results you can use a larger buffer.

[dmc6960]

To stop the erratic fluctiations of the needle due to false readings of the pot you can always add a running average function to the input (or output). Say for example you take 10 readings a second, take the average of the last 10 readings using a circular buffer. The processor should have to problem doing that. No only does this dampen any off readings, it also provides for a smooth tweaning of the needle without any complex logic. For even smoother results you can use a larger buffer.

Thats been the plan for the fuel sender from the start (30-60 second average). Other gauges need quicker response time. Right now its about a 20-40ms delay between single readings. The lag with that is barely noticeable, I can only see it because I know its there. While experimenting, a 200ms smoothed it out nicely but there was a noticeable delay in the readings. Perhaps having 4 readings 5-10ms apart would provide good results.

Further logic will incorporate acceleration into the needle. So it if only needs to move a few degrees or so, it will do it mildly. If it need to move a full swing right away, it will accelerate to the stepper's full speed (which is still I think about twice as fast as seen here).

[robvanderveer]

What kind of servo's are you using? I remember the servos from my RC car back in the days, those servo's made quite the bit of noise, probably because of the gears involved.

Wouldn't like anything like 8 of those noisemakers in my binnacle.

[dmc6960]

They are X25.168 stepper motors. They are designed specifically for automotive instrument clusters. When driven with a proper pulsetrain, they are not noisy at all.

It is a Lavet style stepper motor with two coils. Turns nominally in 1/3º (on the pointer shaft) partial steps. A full step is 3 partials, and the complete pulse cycle (2 steps) is 6 partial steps, which equates to 2º on the pointer (hens why right now its moving in 2º increments). Unit has internal stops, with a total of 315º available on the pointer shaft.

[robvanderveer]

:worship:

[Farrar]

:worship:

+1

[dmc6960]

So my 7-segment LED samples came in today. These units have 7.6mm (.30") high characters. This slightly exceeds the actual vertical opening of the stock odometer cutout. Unfortunately the width of the units lined up together more than slightly exceed the odometer opening, by 8mm. These units are some of the narrowest I can find. Most of the 7mm and 5mm 7-segment displays I've found actually are slightly wider. Unfortunately, nothing beneficial is gained from 2 or 3-digit units either. I have found one manufacturer of a 5mm unit which is only 6.9mm in width. This would put the total width at 41.4mm, still exceeding the stock 36mm but slightly better than the 44mm I have now. Another concern about the small size of these are the ability to solder them. The super small units are all surface-mount devices with incredibly small contacts. Designed for "reflow" soldering on a manufacturing line. Not hand soldering in someone's workshop. While browsing many of the manufacturer's websites, a lot of them advertised "ask us about custom units, at affordable prices". So I'll throw a few feelers out there for a single 6-digit unit which perhaps can be made a little more compact than individual units. We'll see. Once I have the vector graphics completed for the speedometer I may also play around with slightly enlarging the scale to make the units I currently have fit with an OEM look. If this looks OK, I'll enlarge every gauge, print out some quickie samples, and lay them over my spare cluster. So I have several options to pursue here.

Here are the photos of the 7-Segment lineup...
764076417642

[thirdmanj]

I'm just geeking out over the progress you're making! I follow this thread with keen anticipation and find it most educational too! I'm most certainly interested in purchasing the final product!

[ramblinmike]

Would this one do the trick?

http://www.kingbrightusa.com/images/catalog/SPEC/ACSC02-41SGWA-F01.pdf

[Farrar]

I have found one manufacturer of a 5mm unit which is only 6.9mm in width. This would put the total width at 41.4mm,


Would this one do the trick?

That one seems to be 41.4mm as well.

Farrar

[ramblinmike]

That one seems to be 41.4mm as well.

Farrar

I was focusing on the ones he had in the picture. Oops!

[dmc6960]

It seems one of the more difficult things people have faced when trying to make replica speedometers, is an inability to match the typeface of the originals. I myself do not know the actual typeface. I've done automated font searches using high resolution images of the typeface, and have come close, but they are licensed fonts which would be at least $30 for a personal copy, but legally would require much more if used in a sold product. So the next best thing, make new ones from scratch. Using a digital micrometer and high resolution "eyeballing", I've taken measurements of the dimensions, including width, height, and curve radii.

Here is the first (and easiest) character, the Zero, and its measurements...

76907691

The original file is in a vector format with infinitely small border lines. So it can be scaled perfectly when used in different manners in the whole cluster.

[dvonk]

awesome. i love how thorough you are being with this! i cant wait to get one... the only prerequisite is i need a D first. :lol:

actually, when you start selling them, ill probably get one even if i dont have a D just to be sure i get one... :wink:

[1batt4u]

Are you gonna have different speedo gauge set up, 85mph, 140mph or 160mph, or even a 95mph for BTTF??

[dmc6960]

Are you gonna have different speedo gauge set up, 85mph, 140mph or 160mph, or even a 95mph for BTTF??

Plans are for 85mph, 140mph, and 240km/hr.

[Farrar]

Jim, how's the fontifying going? Might the font eventually be available for download? I have a few projects I can think of where it would come in quite handy..... ;)

[dmc6960]

Well I'm not making a whole "font" per se, just the perfectly scaled vectors for every character used in the cluster. I have completed several other numbers but when I did the 8 everything looked way off, despite using the measured dimensions. It appears the 8 uses different radii on its curves. I've taken some higher resolution scans and am currently reevaluating all of the demensions I've done so far. The vectors could be made available per request.

[knightjp]

What about this? Is it the same project?

http://www.az-d.org/indiglo.html
http://www.az-d.org/elglo.jpg
http://www.az-d.org/DkBlElGlo.jpg
http://www.az-d.org/DkBlElGlo2.jpg

This is definitely an excellent thing to do for the interior. I know the Delorean's interior can seem dated. I thought of making it completely digital, but this is awesome. Completely updates the interior lighting.

[knightjp]

Does anyone have a before and after picture of the whole interior after this lighting conversion is done???

[robvanderveer]

This is definitely an excellent thing to do for the interior. I know the Delorean's interior can seem dated. I thought of making it completely digital, but this is awesome. Completely updates the interior lighting.

I've got this installed on my car, and I wish I didn't. It's a $100 kit, not very easy to install, and the effect is moderate. Better wait what the poster's project turns out to be!

[dmc6960]

This is definitely an excellent thing to do for the interior. I know the Delorean's interior can seem dated. I thought of making it completely digital, but this is awesome. Completely updates the interior lighting.


I've got this installed on my car, and I wish I didn't. It's a $100 kit, not very easy to install, and the effect is moderate. Better wait what the poster's project turns out to be!

Yes, PLEASE DO NOT bring that EL kit back into this thread. It is in NO WAY related to what I am building. What I'm building will be leaps and bounds better than that product.

[knightjp]

Yes, PLEASE DO NOT bring that EL kit back into this thread. It is in NO WAY related to what I am building. What I'm building will be leaps and bounds better than that product.
Alright, we wont. But please be sure to post pics afterwards. I'm really waiting to see the finished thing.

[dmc6960]

Alright, we wont. But please be sure to post pics afterwards. I'm really waiting to see the finished thing.

Then be prepared to wait at least a year. I do plan to have some type of prototype available for viewing at DCS this year.

[dmc6960]

I do have about half the vector characters completed. I will post about them once they are all done. Stepper motor programming is taking a break while I do this. Once all the complete vector graphs are done, I will have a full set printed in the backlighting decal material I already have samples from. These will become the base for my prototype viewable at DCS.

After all that is done, I will purchase spare oil and temp sensors and maybe a Saab fuel sender to start writing the programs for those gauges.

Are we having fun yet?

[1batt4u]

How r things going?? :biggrin:

[dmc6960]

Slow and steady wins the race. Nah, its just slow because I refuse to pay anyone else to do what I can mostly do myself. Things are going fine, no new problems, but nothing new to report. Still working on the graphics.

Also pondering getting a vendor booth at DCS to display the prototype. However these will NOT be for sale at DCS, still probably a year out on that.

[1batt4u]

Cool!!

I don't if it were asked, I'm sure it was, what illuminating colors will you offer?

Also when is DCS?

[dmc6960]

Available colors will be green, blue, or red.

DCS is June 14-17 in Orlando, FL.

[1batt4u]

Cool!! I will get in blue!! :D

Make sure it is a nice blue, not that dark blue like some cars have. It actually bothers my eyes.

[seventy4burban]

I'm down for blue, will match my head unit and blue LEDs in my AC control panel.

[john 05141]

Blue!!

[dmc6960]

I'll try to make sure the sample at DCS can do all the colors then.

[dmcnorway]

Volkswagen Blue by any chance?

Stian B.
Norway

VIN # 06759

[1batt4u]

Volkswagen Blue by any chance?

Stian B.
Norway

VIN # 06759

I hope not!! Sorry to say, that actually bothers my eyes, dont know why! Needs a slight lighter blue

[dmc6960]

Another new component arrived today. This is an AC generator speed sensor. At approximately 1000rpm it produces about 3vac. The plan is for it to directly replace the angle drive in the adapter nut. The size of the threaded area appears perfect to machine off the threads and machine in a grove for the circlip. While I dont have a spare angle drive sitting around anymore to do exact measurements, I'm pretty sure its nearly dead on. If anyone has a non-functional angle drive they'd be willing to mail me, I can provide a discount for a completed dash when available.

New speed sensor...
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8818&d=1331003206

Angle drive...
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8819&d=1331003208

[DMC5180]

I have a new AD in reserve. I can do precision measurements for you if that would work.

[dmc6960]

I have a new AD in reserve. I can do precision measurements for you if that would work.

Yes, precision measurements would work. Looking for the length and diameter of the shaft that seats inside the hub nut, the with and depth of the groove for the circlip, and the diameter of the circlip itself. Thanks!

[DMC5180]

Well as usual, now that I need it for something I can't locate it. Funny thing is I ran across it while reorganizing the garage 6 mo ago. Dang it !

Sorry about that.

[dmc6960]

Its all good.

In other news, here are some of the completed number characters...

8927 8930 8926 8929 8928

And of course after looking at them all lined up right now, I may need to make adjustments to the middle of the 3 and 8 (slightly raise upward). We'll see though.

Hope to have the rest done by the end of this week. Then next week, drawing a whole gauge...

[DMC5180]

Decided to look in one more place on hunch and found the AD this morning. I have it with me and will get you those numbers this evening.

[dmc6960]

More Numbers...

8943 8944 8942

Now the 9. Not a very important number. No possible configuration other than a BTTF 95mph unit would use one. Just in case though, I tried two things...

First, I tried just flipping the 6 so the 9 is a direct mirror of it...
8946

Then I also tried manipulating the closed loop so it would vertically be the "smaller" loop since it is the TOP loop on the 6 and 8 which is smaller than the bottom...
8945

At first, the mirror 9 didn't look right, so I created the modified one. But now comparing the two with the other numbers, the mirror one is probably the better one. Thoughts?

All I have left now is the 4, then I can get some of the letter characters done. Here is everything so far...

8951 8947 8943 8948 8949 8944 8942 8950 8946 8945

[DMC5180]

Jim, check your PM's and E-mail

[Farrar]

At first, the mirror 9 didn't look right, so I created the modified one. But now comparing the two with the other numbers, the mirror one is probably the better one. Thoughts?

I agree. In context, the flipped 9 doesn't look out of place at all. Nice work as always!

[DavidProehl]

I like the mirrored one best as well.

[Jack]

I may have messed the post referencing this, but what are the numbers for and why do they need to be remade/customized?
If these are vector images I could help you make whatever you need.

[dmc6960]

I may have messed the post referencing this, but what are the numbers for and why do they need to be remade/customized?
If these are vector images I could help you make whatever you need.

All you really need to read is the first post of the thread. In short though, I'm building an electronically controlled and backlit instrument cluster. New decals need to be printed for the gauges, and there is no perfect match for the typeface used. Therefore, I'm recreating all of them by hand using high resolution scans and measurements. They are vector drawings, as will be the final layout before its handed off to the specialized printers.

Thanks for the offer to help, but I'm almost done. :rock_on:

[dmc6960]

Finished the 4. All numeral characters for the cluster are complete. They are all based off of the speedometer and tachometer numbers. All secondary numbers (kph and small gauges) use identical typeface just scaled smaller.

Quick summary...

All characters are 3mm wide by 5.6mm tall. Exceptions are the 1, which is 1.6mm wide, and the 4, which is 3.5mm wide. Majority of the line widths are approximately .8mm with several exceptions. The radii used on the 0 does NOT completely match the other character's radii, but is close. The vertical portion of the 0 is perfectly strait with no radii, and all other characters have a very slight radii in most of their vertical portions. Characters with dual loops (3,5,6,8 ) have a larger radii on the bottom loop than the top loop. The 5 and 6 have a much larger bottom radii than the bottom of the 3 and 8. The 9 does not exist on any OEM design, 85mph, 140mph, or metric.

I will now work on drawing out all the letters. MPH, km/h, RPM/100, VOLTS, TEMP, OIL, FUEL.

If anyone has high resolution pictures or vector graphics of the common automotive icons for Battery, Temp, Oil, and Fuel; it would be very helpful. I'm not looking forward to drawing those especially since they exist identically everywhere. There must be a good source for them.

The final lineup....

8968 8969 8970 8971 8967 8972 8973 8974 8975 8976

[dmc6960]

9311 9313 9310

And then some...
9312
After struggling with the P, then realizing it matches some skewed angles of the 0, nearly everything I need for the speedometer is done. As you can see I've also started on the actual speedo itself. Only have the easy bits right now though, as I've previously measured these dimensions they were easy to draw. Perhaps slightly more difficult will be all the angled hash-marks on their exact angle and position, but I don't foresee too much difficulty. Of course there is no "outline" on the speedo face right now, and as the colors are inverted its hard to tell exactly where the borders are. You could highlight the image though if you need a basic idea. When I get it completed I'll have all the colors proper so it'll look exactly like a DeLorean speedometer.

[davidrucker11387]

Something that I was thinking about working on is an LCD replacement to go where the clock and rheostat are located. Its purpose would be like on a modern car display information such as door status, Avg. MPG, Inst. MPG, Check Engine, Cruise Control Output, Outside Temp, Maybe Compass, etc... I love your progress and cant wait to see your prototype at DCS! I havent fully decided about my project yet, although It would be a good addition to your cluster. In my opinion anyway lol. What's everyones thoughts on the LCD?

Davidrucker11387
DeLoDave, 6410

[Farrar]

What's everyones thoughts on the LCD?

My thought it is will have to have a hell of a good backlight to be seen in daylight. Sounds neat, though. :)

[Tillsy]

My thought it is will have to have a hell of a good backlight to be seen in daylight. Sounds neat, though. :)
Or perhaps an OLED panel?

[davidrucker11387]

OLEDs are nice but sometimes hard to come by in the size format that I would like. Also if going the trouble of OLED I would want full color instead of 1 or 2 color formats like they are commonly available. The '84 Chrysler Laser is where my inspiration has come from so far on the LCD screen idea and I too was thinking on going with a digital dash but more on the lines of its obvious that its digital and not looks stock but works digitally also like the laser. I attached a picture for those of you that havent seen those cars.

[DMC5180]

If you want that kind of digital dash, it's sort of already been done using gauges from Dakota Digital.

[dmc6960]

9486

First render of a speedometer. Few nuances still remaining...

Most of the angles between ticks on the stock speedo are about 16º. However there are a few that are 15º and 14º. This variability will be too difficult to manage with my basic software for the needle. Therefore I have decided to make them all 16º. This results in the 5mph tick being a little too close to the trip rest opening. Unfortunately that opening is a fixed location, as the new shaft will need to be in the exact same spot to clear the cluster lens.

The stock speedo is biased about 2º counter clockwise. I have recreated that here, but I may keep it strait on the final product. This will allow for better 5mph placement and better overall aesthetics.

As is obiously noticeable, the km/h ticks are not here yet, perhaps tomorrow. I still need to draw a lowercase k, m, and h. With time running out I may omit that on the initial prototype prints.

The prototype I hope to bring to DCS will be an 85mph speedometer. But the final product will still be available as 140mph or all metric (240kph).

I will soon also be placing an order for a temp sender and oil pressure sender so I can use them as a measurement base without sacrificing my own car. I will be back to PIC programming soon now.

[dmc6960]

Also just today I ordered a mid 80's Saab 900 fuel level sender. As I understand it this is a direct fit for our tank but with different connectors and perhaps no low fuel light switch. Also I believe this sender reverses the variable resistance from what the stock gauge needs to read (reverse full and empty). As I understand this is the fuel sender which TankZilla used. The new cluster will be able to operate on both this unit and stock style units, user selectable so you can change it out whenever you need to.

[dmc6960]

Got the Saab fuel level sender today. This unit will fit inside the stock location for the OEM level sender. It reads in reverse of the OEM unit, so it is not a drop-in replacement for those without a good unit right now. I got this for two reasons, first is to have a benchtop unit for testing with the new cluster. And second is to eventually replace my original sender (still working mostly fine after 120k+ miles!). Since the new cluster will operate strictly off of logic, it is a relatively simple manner to create two programs which will operate in normal or reverse. User selectable! So the fuel gauge will work on original senders, and all DMCH reproduction senders, including the new all-in-one unit with the new fuel pump.

9641

In addition to that, I've been reading quite a few reports lately about people having problems with their TankZilla units. It also seems that most all of the problems are with the adapter box associated with it, NOT the unit itself, which I do believe is the exact unit I just purchased. Therefore people with TankZillas will be able to bypass their adapter boxes if they wish and run their sender directly with this new cluster.

[Farrar]

Since the new cluster will operate strictly off of logic, it is a relatively simple manner to create two programs which will operate in normal or reverse. User selectable!

With a jumper, I presume? Or am I thinking too old-fashioned? ;)

[dmc6960]

With a jumper, I presume? Or am I thinking too old-fashioned? ;)

Jumper or DIP switch.

[stevedmc]

Yes, still progressing. No new good details to report yet. But certainly still progressing.

On a side note, if anyone can figure out a way to obtain ONE or TWO of these chips...

http://mcrmotorusa.com/IC%20Drivers.html

Or compatible Switec M-S Quad Driver X12.017

It would be a spectacular help. They should be the *key* to a good fluid needle. However the only manufacturer/distributor I've found of them or equivalents will only sell by the case. A box of 100 at $6.50 each. I dont want to buy the whole damn case until I know for sure I can get the electronics to work right. They've told me their "dealer" network only sells their stepper motors.

So there's a little preview of the costs which will be involved in development of this. That box of 100 costing $650 will supply *ONE* component needed twice in each dash, enough for 50 dash units. Fortunately not many other components will have such a high minimum purchase requirement.

Have you considered checking the junk yard for a car that might have this chip?

[dmc6960]

Have you considered checking the junk yard for a car that might have this chip?

A junk yard would not be a reliable way to procure 100+ chips for producing the cluster in numbers. If I was just doing for myself then yes.

I have found alternatives to using this chip so it fortunately is no longer necessary. I'm just driving it strait off the PIC. A little extra programming never hurt anyone right? :D

[Farrar]

A little extra programming never hurt anyone right? :D

Considering that there is a program out there to allow a TRS-80 Model 100 to read an SD card, I'd say you're right about that! :)

Yesterday, I was under my dashboard doing some electrical stuff and found myself looking up at the underside of my gauge cluster. I immediately started thinking about this project. :lol:

[stevedmc]

A junk yard would not be a reliable way to procure 100+ chips for producing the cluster in numbers. If I was just doing for myself then yes.

I have found alternatives to using this chip so it fortunately is no longer necessary. I'm just driving it strait off the PIC. A little extra programming never hurt anyone right? :D

I just meant it would be a good way to get parts for the prototype. Any idea what this thing is going to cost? Are we talking hundreds of dollars, $500, or closer to a thousand? It looks awesome.

[WelmoedJ]

I have not yet cut into this discussion, however I'm very impressed with what I read and see.
On DMCNews Hervey mentioned soon having a new unit that combines fuel pump and fuel sender into one unit.

You may want to consider and contact him for details enabling you to incorporate another improvement into your project.

Welmoed.

[dmc6960]

Yesterday, I was under my dashboard doing some electrical stuff and found myself looking up at the underside of my gauge cluster. I immediately started thinking about this project. :lol:

And the first thing you can do with that memory is forget everything! The back of the new cluster will be a nice clean PCB with one lamp socket (alternator), a few DIP switches, and accessory plugs for future functions/expansions...:deviltail:

[dmc6960]

Hervey mentioned soon having a new unit that combines fuel pump and fuel sender into one unit.

I tend not to do business with him anymore. Doesn't matter though, as he'll have to make his unit compatible with stock gauge which will by default work with mine.

[dmc6960]

I just meant it would be a good way to get parts for the prototype. Any idea what this thing is going to cost? Are we talking hundreds of dollars, $500, or closer to a thousand? It looks awesome.

If I could give you pricing right now I would. Just too many uncertainties still. Biggest factors will the the parts costs for stuff I need to have made for me. New cluster housing, new fascia, new needles, and perhaps more. Right now a whole new old stock cluster from DMC costs $328.13, or $578.13 for the metric one. It will be above those numbers, but I still have no idea how much higher.

[dmc6960]

Nothing majorly new to report. I'm working on the vector graphics for the other gauges right now. Even if I cannot complete a working prototype by DCS I'd still like to have some sample decals printed up to bring with, and perhaps one or two example gauges showing how they will work.

I've also recently purchased from DMCMW a new left front hub nut and retaining ring. The idea here is I'll attach the new speed sensor in the same fashion that the angle drive is attached. Then I can quickly swap it onto my car once its ready to real road testing. This will also be how the part is provided with the new cluster.

I've also purchased an engine water temp sensor for the temp gauge. I will use this to calibrate the temp gauge function.

I'm also now working on basic circuit design layout for each individual function. Once proven out individually for the prototype, they will be combined for the final design.

While it may still be at least a year before these can be sold, I may be looking to have a few real-world test mules installed into cars across different parts of the country by the end of this year. These will need to be heavily used cars in all weather conditions. More info on this after I have the first working prototype.

[avanti]

More Numbers...

All I have left now is the 4, then I can get some of the letter characters done. Here is everything so far...

8951 8947 8943 8948 8949 8944 8942 8950 8946 8945

One small suggestion:

When designing fonts, it is standard to slightly increase the size of characters with curved tops or bottoms and make them extend slightly higher and/or lower than the characters with flat tops/bottoms. So, for example, the numeral "0" should actually extend slightly below the baseline and be slightly taller than, say, the numeral "1". This is called "overshoot" and is done to compensate for an optical illusion that makes the curved edges look like they are not properly lined up. The usual overshoot is about 1.5%. You can read about it here:

http://www.typographydeconstructed.com/baseline/

[dmc6960]

One small suggestion:

When designing fonts, it is standard to slightly increase the size of characters with curved tops or bottoms and make them extend slightly higher and/or lower than the characters with flat tops/bottoms. So, for example, the numeral "0" should actually extend slightly below the baseline and be slightly taller than, say, the numeral "1". This is called "overshoot" and is done to compensate for an optical illusion that makes the curved edges look like they are not properly lined up. The usual overshoot is about 1.5%. You can read about it here:

http://www.typographydeconstructed.com/baseline/

I can see exactly what you mean. I may do this, thanks for the info!

[Farrar]

I may be looking to have a few real-world test mules installed into cars across different parts of the country by the end of this year. These will need to be heavily used cars in all weather conditions. More info on this after I have the first working prototype.

As soon as I have a/c again I plan to drive my car in all kinds of weather. I will also be re-doing my console and kneepads in the future and that would be a good time for me to install a new cluster. If you need a test mule in a hot and humid area of the U.S., let me know... otherwise I look forward to watching the progress continue to unfold here. :)

[stevedmc]

While it may still be at least a year before these can be sold, I may be looking to have a few real-world test mules installed into cars across different parts of the country by the end of this year. These will need to be heavily used cars in all weather conditions. More info on this after I have the first working prototype.

I'm planning to drive 10k miles this year and have logged 2,600 miles so far for the year. I'm game if you need a southern redneck to test one.

[1batt4u]

Anything new?

[dmc6960]

Currently getting quotes for the decal printing, and to also have one hopefully printed up before DCS. Unfortunately there will not be a complete prototype ready for DCS. If I can get a prototype decal printed before DCS I will rig it up with some lights to give a good impression of the backlighting for people to see at the show. I'll also have all of my bits and pieces with for people to see the replacement for the angle drive, etc.

Work on my own car is taking up too much time to get everything else I wanted done. But oh well. I will be selling them for sure at DCS '14.

[dmc6960]

Been quickly finishing the vector images for the gauge faces. What I'm doing now is NOT final. There may be tweaking of positioning still happening. I also will further refine the characters to reflect the 1.5% baseline extension on the curved characters. Right now I'm just quickly finishing what I can so I can get accurate printing quotes and still hopefully a prototype printed before DCS.

Here is a Speedometer and Tachometer. I have now removed the 2º CCW shift the stock speedo has.

10353 10354

[dvonk]

those look great, jim! :thumbup:

[dmc6960]

Who would have thought finding a high resolution image or vector image of the STANDARD International Automotive Fuel Gauge symbol would be so hard?

Well it is. So I have to make my own. Spent less than an hour making the gauge, including the characters for FUEL. Then the entire rest of the evening drawing out the fuel icon by hand. I do think though the results speak for themselves....

10358

"UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" will follow later for the final prints. Since its an irrelevant statement these days, perhaps I'll have an option to omit it. I know the metric cluster has the bottom segment in red, does it still carry the Unleaded text?

[dmcnorway]

Hi Jim, excellent project; looking forward to the final result :-)
I can tell you that the metric cluster does indeed have the "unleaded fuel only" print + the bottom segment in red.

Curiously enough, it does not have the "fuel" print at all! So it would be nice if you could add that to a couple of clusters :-)

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759



Who would have thought finding a high resolution image or vector image of the STANDARD International Automotive Fuel Gauge symbol would be so hard?

Well it is. So I have to make my own. Spent less than an hour making the gauge, including the characters for FUEL. Then the entire rest of the evening drawing out the fuel icon by hand. I do think though the results speak for themselves....

10358

"UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" will follow later for the final prints. Since its an irrelevant statement these days, perhaps I'll have an option to omit it. I know the metric cluster has the bottom segment in red, does it still carry the Unleaded text?

[dmcnorway]

And ... it's also missing the "VOLTS" print, the "TEMP" print and the "OIL" print...

Best wishes
Stian Birkeland
Norway

VIN # 06759



Who would have thought finding a high resolution image or vector image of the STANDARD International Automotive Fuel Gauge symbol would be so hard?

Well it is. So I have to make my own. Spent less than an hour making the gauge, including the characters for FUEL. Then the entire rest of the evening drawing out the fuel icon by hand. I do think though the results speak for themselves....

10358

"UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" will follow later for the final prints. Since its an irrelevant statement these days, perhaps I'll have an option to omit it. I know the metric cluster has the bottom segment in red, does it still carry the Unleaded text?

[Dangermouse]

Modern cars have a little triangle beside the pump symbol that points to the side of the car that has the gas flap. Any thoughts about adding one pointing to the left, or would that be out of character?

And would having it pointing to the front of the car instead, be too geeky?

[dmc6960]

We're really cookin' with oil now! An oil gauge that is...

10360

After learning additional functions of the drawing program I'm using (Inkscape) last night for the Fuel icon, the Oil icon was much easier to draw by hand today.

Also had to make an S, hadn't done that yet. The 3 middle markings are each an additional and progressively 2.5º turned CCW.

I think I'll go do some needed work on the actual car now after some lunch.

[dmc6960]

Modern cars have a little triangle beside the pump symbol that points to the side of the car that has the gas flap. Any thoughts about adding one pointing to the left, or would that be out of character?

And would having it pointing to the front of the car instead, be too geeky?

It would probably be out of character. I'm trying to keep the appearance as close to original as possible. If I do something not exactly original to the cluster, it will still keep the same look and feel of the original cluster. The most prime example I can think of this are the speedometers. The 140mph unit may not have been installed in over 99% of the cars, but there was the factory desire for it if not for the US regulation. Also the visual appearance of the 240km unit does not completely match the rest of the typeface, I hope to correct this with the KM version. The only major departure from the original should be the odometer/trip meter.

[dvonk]

It would probably be out of character. I'm trying to keep the appearance as close to original as possible...

i had the same sentiments. while Dermot's suggestion is valid, i dont think it would quite fit with the originality.

also, i hope whoever is responsible for fueling up the DeLorean would know enough about it to know where the filler neck is! :wink:

[jawn101]

Jim, those decals look amazing. You have such a huge amount of dedication to the project! I can't wait to see the finished product. Great work.

[DavidProehl]

I continue to be blown away by this project. The attention to detail is amazing. I can't see this project being anything other than a success.

[dvonk]

+1. i think were really privileged to have such a talented, diverse community willing to develop these labor-intensive, small-batch projects.

take a bow, gents! :fancy:

[dmc6960]

And now for my latest creation, the Volt Gauge!

10377

Perhaps yet tonight I can complete the Temp gauge.

Thanks for all the support folks!

[jawn101]

And now for my latest creation, the Volt Gauge!

10377

Perhaps yet tonight I can complete the Temp gauge.

Thanks for all the support folks!

Wow Jim! This is great!! Even the colors are perfect. How did you do that?

Comparing this to the oil gauge though, it looked like the very center tick was slightly rotated on the oil gauge, is that right? I could just be imagining it :)

[dmc6960]

Wow Jim! This is great!! Even the colors are perfect. How did you do that?

Comparing this to the oil gauge though, it looked like the very center tick was slightly rotated on the oil gauge, is that right? I could just be imagining it :)

Yes, on the oil gauge the 3 middle ticks are each and progressively an additional 2.5º CCW. Go look at yours.

Colors were just a visual match/guess. If the prototype prints dont match the colors very well, I will be sending the printing company the spare gauge faces I have for a color match.

[jawn101]

Ah, I saw you said that they were rotated but thought you meant from zero. Now I get it!

[dmc6960]

No Temp gauge tonight. Got everything done except for drawing the universal TEMP icon. Tomorrow it is then.

[SIMid]

Modern cars have a little triangle beside the pump symbol that points to the side of the car that has the gas flap. Any thoughts about adding one pointing to the left, or would that be out of character?

And would having it pointing to the front of the car instead, be too geeky?

Could just flip the filler neck to the other side. ;)

But keeping it as original as possible would look fantastic when unlit. :thumbup2: Looking forward to this mod/upgrade!

[DMC5180]

Regarding the tick mark colors, make sure you find an example of a NOS gauge for color comparison. Yours have probably faded a bit. I know mine are about 60% the color richness of an NOS unit.

[dmc6960]

Temp gauge icon took much longer than I thought it would. But at last, the final primary gauge is complete...

10394

I will also be drawing the side dummy light decals eventually, but not at this time. The full resolution vector images of all 6 gauges will now be used to print the prototype backlit decals.

[dmc6960]

Just a little compilation of all 6 gauges together at last...

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10409&d=1337091746

[jawn101]

:wow::wow::wow::wow:

[thirdmanj]

:yesss:

[20098]

Nice job on this Jim. Looking forward to seeing more.

[82DMC12]

Totally awesome!

[jawn101]

Jim, these are so awesome... do you have any plans to offer an overlay to let the folks who stay with their stock gauges revitalize the faces? I bet you could sell the pants off that and it might help defray some of your costs in developing the electronic cluster. Just a thought, I have no idea what any of the economics of your project are. :)

[Jeff K]

Jim, these are so awesome... do you have any plans to offer an overlay to let the folks who stay with their stock gauges revitalize the faces? I bet you could sell the pants off that and it might help defray some of your costs in developing the electronic cluster. Just a thought, I have no idea what any of the economics of your project are. :)

+1 on this. My faces are quite faded. I would like the back-light option too, but even revitalizing the faces would rock!
Jeff

[dmc6960]

Jim, these are so awesome... do you have any plans to offer an overlay to let the folks who stay with their stock gauges revitalize the faces? I bet you could sell the pants off that and it might help defray some of your costs in developing the electronic cluster. Just a thought, I have no idea what any of the economics of your project are. :)


+1 on this. My faces are quite faded. I would like the back-light option too, but even revitalizing the faces would rock!
Jeff

Unfortunately no, this will not be a possibility. You would have to do all of the gauge faces to match, and there are going to be enough subtle differences that the new faces will not be 100% compatible with the original gauges. One example is the speedometer. If you see my previous notes you'll notice the stock gauge has a 2º counter-clockwise bias in all the ticks. The spacing isn't 100% equal either. Those deficiencies needed to be corrected for the electronic speedo and as such could not accurately be used on an original speedometer.

[20098]

I noticed that these two MPH gauges looked different. When it's said that no two DeLorean's are the same, it makes sense.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]10411[ATTACH=CONFIG]10412

These two pics are from the cars DMC Florida currently has up on eBay.

[jawn101]

Unfortunately no, this will not be a possibility. You would have to do all of the gauge faces to match, and there are going to be enough subtle differences that the new faces will not be 100% compatible with the original gauges. One example is the speedometer. If you see my previous notes you'll notice the stock gauge has a 2º counter-clockwise bias in all the ticks. The spacing isn't 100% equal either. Those deficiencies needed to be corrected for the electronic speedo and as such could not accurately be used on an original speedometer.

Ah, too bad. Still, the fact that we laypeople didn't notice the differences means you done good at least, right? :)

[dmc6960]

Unfortunately, I was unable to get decals printed out in time to bring to the show. This pretty much means there is nothing to show people at DCS. I'm a bit disappointed, but oh well. By the time for the next show I hope to have a vendor booth and be selling them like hotcakes! Now that the majority of the work I needed to do on my own car is complete, I can continue work on this sometime after returning from DCS.

[1batt4u]

Whats new? :-)

[dmc6960]

Ha, had a feeling you'd ask.

Haven't worked too much on it since our last PMs. For everyone else, here is the general update from over the summer...

I wasn't able to get any prototype decals printed up in time for DCS. Since there hasn't been any other pressing need for something good looking and flashy, I haven't pursued that any further yet. For operational prototype purposes I can use cheaply printed decals. I've also inquired about the engineering diagrams for the original cluster if found. I HAVE found out the technical name for the typeface used in the cluster. All characters match except the zero/"O". I may yet end up redrawing the whole cluster, especially if I get the engineering drawings. That'll be easy though, and can wait until later since what I have now will be more than good enough for operational prototypes.

I've done a little more work on the software I have controlling the stepper motors. I've also got an analog circuit ready to test the real DMC sensors in the program. Still need to build a basic power supply for the testing. I have not yet started on the software that operates all the other functions of the cluster, like the PWM dimming of the backlighting, high temp triggers, etc. I'm also reading up on the more complex uC's I'm going to need for the speedometer, which is by far the most complex gauge and will likely be my last to complete.

I've done some rough work on 3D renderings of the cluster housing and gauge faces with the hope that a design of my own will reduce development costs. The housing may still be something I make myself, but the gauge face(s) certainly need to be a professionally molded product. So far though I haven't been very good at 3D rendering, curious what tools other folks use.

So thats about it for now, I did spend much of the summer just driving my car and doing home maintenance. I should have relatively large amounts of free time this winter, especially after the new year to work on this. I've gone 3 years now without a reliably working speedometer, I'm motivated.

[Morpheus]

Keep up the good work, Jim! I'm excited to see the finished product.8)

[1batt4u]

Ha, had a feeling you'd ask.

Haven't worked too much on it since our last PMs. For everyone else, here is the general update from over the summer...

I wasn't able to get any prototype decals printed up in time for DCS. Since there hasn't been any other pressing need for something good looking and flashy, I haven't pursued that any further yet. For operational prototype purposes I can use cheaply printed decals. I've also inquired about the engineering diagrams for the original cluster if found. I HAVE found out the technical name for the typeface used in the cluster. All characters match except the zero/"O". I may yet end up redrawing the whole cluster, especially if I get the engineering drawings. That'll be easy though, and can wait until later since what I have now will be more than good enough for operational prototypes.

I've done a little more work on the software I have controlling the stepper motors. I've also got an analog circuit ready to test the real DMC sensors in the program. Still need to build a basic power supply for the testing. I have not yet started on the software that operates all the other functions of the cluster, like the PWM dimming of the backlighting, high temp triggers, etc. I'm also reading up on the more complex uC's I'm going to need for the speedometer, which is by far the most complex gauge and will likely be my last to complete.

I've done some rough work on 3D renderings of the cluster housing and gauge faces with the hope that a design of my own will reduce development costs. The housing may still be something I make myself, but the gauge face(s) certainly need to be a professionally molded product. So far though I haven't been very good at 3D rendering, curious what tools other folks use.

So thats about it for now, I did spend much of the summer just driving my car and doing home maintenance. I should have relatively large amounts of free time this winter, especially after the new year to work on this. I've gone 3 years now without a reliably working speedometer, I'm motivated.

It's been 6 months, just curious what you been up to with this? Hopefully some good progress.

[dmc6960]

Yep. I had several rounds last year with some really good momentum going. Then over winter, which was supposed to be the "kick-ass" time, everything stopped as I got loaded down with a second job. I really want something GOOD to show people for all the effort I've put into this so far, and I keep interested in it instead of one of those pipe dreams that always seem to fizzle. A benefit on my end is already the ~$300 I've invested in tools and parts so far. Eventually to be a lot more. I've set an ambitious personal goal of having something really good to show at the DMCMW open house next month.

Billy, if your selling your instrument cluster in anticipation of purchasing one of these units, I'd suggest you wait until they are actually available. It'll still be at least a year until I have anything complete.

[1batt4u]

Yep. I had several rounds last year with some really good momentum going. Then over winter, which was supposed to be the "kick-ass" time, everything stopped as I got loaded down with a second job. I really want something GOOD to show people for all the effort I've put into this so far, and I keep interested in it instead of one of those pipe dreams that always seem to fizzle. A benefit on my end is already the ~$300 I've invested in tools and parts so far. Eventually to be a lot more. I've set an ambitious personal goal of having something really good to show at the DMCMW open house next month.

Billy, if your selling your instrument cluster in anticipation of purchasing one of these units, I'd suggest you wait until they are actually available. It'll still be at least a year until I have anything complete.

I had already bought from DMCH a NOS a while ago. Just trying to sell my old one.

[dmc6960]

Finally some more progress...

While I haven't really had any additional free time, I've been squeezing in work during the evenings instead of going to sleep.

At this point, I'm back into the program coding. Where I last left off, I was using a potentiometer to adjust the micro's analog input. This gave a really "rough" approximation of an analog sensor. I was able to get the stepper motor to go up and down, approximately the same amount I was turning the POT. The stepper motor was also being controlled in really rough increments, 2º at a time, for each change in the input. There was also no filtering on the input line leading to a LOT of jitter in the results.

See this video for that action... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJrdOb3aZkc

Shortly before the DMCMW open house... Ok, literally the night before; I assembled an analog input circuit to allow me to attach a fuel level sender to a new breadboard I was using to demo. Hooking this up without any modifications to my previous code produced results less than exciting. This was due to an improper resistor rated much too high. It left me with about 6-8 units of resolution, instead of 256-1024. I did show a few people this during the open house. I would hold the sender unit one way, and the pointer would show it, flipped it over to move the float to the other end, and the pointer moved ~90º the other way. Due to the existing jitter and very low resolution, it was difficult to show people half-way or any kind of fluid movement.

Now that I've had a week at home, I've made some massive progress. I started out by getting the input circuit correct so I would have nearly full-resolution on the analog input. Next I implemented a running filter to nearly eliminate all jitter. And finally I've had success at moving the pointer at the smallest resolution its capable of, 1/3º. UNFORTUNATELY it seems handling a fuel level sender like a shake-weight is counterproductive to its lifespan. It is now broken. To make matters worse, this generic VDO-built unit for 1983-1987 Saab 900's*** is no longer available. I THINK I have one ordered from a parts house that still has one in stock, but we'll see.

***For those who dont know... This fuel sender from the Saab is the unit used for TankZilla. It has the same physical dimensions as the OEM fuel sender. It is made out of aluminum and steel instead of plastic. Unfortunately for DeLorean-owners it reads the resistance in reverse from a DeLorean unit. This makes it worthless as a drop-in replacement. The TankZilla unit used a logic-box to transpose the readings to properly send it to the DeLorean gauge. Of course, this is all a non-issue for a programmable micro-controller.

Since the fuel sender is by far the easiest to work with while sitting on the couch, table, or bed, its what I've been doing all my initial work with. Next up in the program, is to incorporate acceleration into the pointer. Right now, its always moving at a constant speed with instant stop. This can result in the pointer loosing its accuracy if it skips any steps while reversing. The acceleration logic will prevent this from happening, and give the pointer a very fluid appearance. After that is complete, I will expand the program to run two gauges at once, which is currently the plan for the 4 smaller gauges. Once that is working properly, I will setup a temporary oil-pressure and fuel-level gauge in my car. These work well for testing, because they use approximately the same resistance range, are in the same "gauge pod", and are also the most dynamic of the 4 small gauges. While I'm driving around in the daytime testing these, I will expand my programming into the tachometer, then the speedometer during the evenings.

Unfortunately the fuel sender died before I could make a fancy movie of me using it like a shake-weight. But here is a picture of me doing some tests on an OEM temp sensor. Surprisingly, my wife was not upset about using the kitchen tools.
20127

[NightFlyer]

I'm hoping that when Jim is done with this project, it looks a little something like this:

http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/studios/1986_Italdesign_Oldsmobile_Incas_interior_01.jpg

We just have to get Jim to work on redesigning the steering wheel with the integrated stalks and controls :biggrin:

[jawn101]

I'm hoping that when Jim is done with this project, it looks a little something like this:

http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/studios/1986_Italdesign_Oldsmobile_Incas_interior_01.jpg

We just have to get Jim to work on redesigning the steering wheel with the integrated stalks and controls :biggrin:

OK, I gotta ask... what's that from?! I love it.

[DavidProehl]

The image file name says it is a 1986 Italdesign Oldsmobile Incas interior. Found some more photos here: http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/1986_oldsmobile_incas/

[jawn101]

The image file name says it is a 1986 Italdesign Oldsmobile Incas interior. Found some more photos here: http://www.carstyling.ru/en/car/1986_oldsmobile_incas/

Show-off....

Thanks :)

[dmc6960]

Apparently you guys forgot about one of my requirements...

Maintain original appearance.

Though that does look pretty neat.

[dmc6960]

UNFORTUNATELY it seems handling a fuel level sender like a shake-weight is counterproductive to its lifespan. It is now broken. To make matters worse, this generic VDO-built unit for 1983-1987 Saab 900's*** is no longer available. I THINK I have one ordered from a parts house that still has one in stock, but we'll see.

Well, unfortunately it seems the place I found which said they were "In Stock" does not actually have them "In Stock". I've received a message stating...


Upon processing your order, our manufacturing facility has informed us that the following item(s) are backordered with a new Estimated Ship Date as shown below:
New Estimated Ship Date: 4-6 weeks
Reason: Manufacturing Delay (Build to order part)

I responded that I would like to wait the 4-6 weeks. However if this truly no longer manufactured, I'm just out of luck on it I guess. I could buy a used one on eBay, but I have other things I can continue working on in the mean time. I don't need it to test the pointer acceleration logic, I can do that manually. Of which, I believe I'm between 1/3 and 1/2 of the way completed with that programming. After that works, I'll incorporate a second gauge into the logic, and get the test setup into the car.

After that I'll work on the tachometer.

[Bitsyncmaster]

That VOD sender has a very fine nichrome wire. You may just need to clean it. I used some scotch brite pad to very carefully polish the wire in mine.

[dmc6960]

You think it just needs cleaning? This was a brand new unit never installed into a car. It now reads open across the whole range of the float. The low level light still closes. It happened sometime after I shook it rapidly back an fourth. This was to observe the needle pointer response and see if it skipped any steps. It didn't fail while I was doing that though, and I lost several hours on the program after it stopped working and I thought I screwed something up.

[Tomcio]

.... This was to observe the needle pointer response and see if it skipped any steps. It didn't fail while I was doing that though, and I lost several hours on the program after it stopped working and I thought I screwed something up.

Jim,
Why don't you use a potentiometer instead of the actual sender? Use a straight type to better visualize the set level. You can move it as fast as you'd like and if it breaks you're out 50 cents. AFAIR the sender reads 0 at one end and 90-100 ohms at the other. It should read 0 at empty and if the resistance gets too high at full the pointer will actually show more that full - with the failed or disconnected sender (open) the needle points straight up. So it's easy to find the max resistance required.
I'm thinking about something like this:
20156

[Bitsyncmaster]

You think it just needs cleaning? This was a brand new unit never installed into a car. It now reads open across the whole range of the float. The low level light still closes. It happened sometime after I shook it rapidly back an fourth. This was to observe the needle pointer response and see if it skipped any steps. It didn't fail while I was doing that though, and I lost several hours on the program after it stopped working and I thought I screwed something up.

Just pop the bottom screw off and it will open. Maybe the contacts on the float came loose or a pin on top needs to be soldered.

[dmc6960]

Why don't you use a potentiometer instead of the actual sender?

Yea, for endurance testing (how quickly can I jump the needle back and fourth before it starts skipping steps?) this would be best. Its what I should have done in the first place. Still need to do full-up bench testing using the real sensors and senders though. This will ensure proper calibration of the input circuits and the program. I do still have a functioning original fuel sender on my car. It reads both full and empty, just not quite linear in between. Though who else with 130k+ miles can say they're still on their original eh?

[aipri]

A little late to the party here, but I just discovered this thread and must say thank you for this massive undertaking. I haven't even purchased a D yet, but I want this cluster, I hope you are able to get it completed! :cheers:

[Bitsyncmaster]

Yes I'm going to get this also. My center console looks so good it makes the dash look like shi? at night.

[1batt4u]

What's the story on the electronic cluster?

[DMCSPRINT]

Hello I am installing Dave's LED ac panel and would like to modernize the instrument cluster as well. Was just checking to see whatever happen to this project? If your selling them how much? Thank you