I think my engine is done for. :'(

[Farrar]

I bought the car in 2007. It has never idled properly. In 2008, a pin hole in the engine valley started causing oil to leak out. I patched it with engine epoxy and drove on. Then in 2013, the engine died while hot. Happened again and again. I changed the pickup coil in the ignition distributor. 2014 came and went with no opportunity for me to fix the car. Now it's 2015 and I'm trying to put it on the road again. While removing the old headers, I had to take the oil filter off. I had sucked out the old oil, anyway, because I was going to change it, but got sidetracked so the engine has been sitting for a few weeks without oil in it. (No big deal -- the engine hasn't turned.)

And this is what I found when I took the oil filter off.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSOBQSKyhsY

There are a few possibilities:

1. coolant leak in the engine valley has entered a pin hole and filled the crankcase.
2. cylinder liner has failed.
3. ???

What are the other possibilities?

Most of the people I have talked to so far have said it's time for a new engine -- especially since I have that pin hole on the top of the engine.

So my motto is "hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

I have never swapped out an engine before. Granted, my car is carbureted so there's not a whole lot on top of the engine, but all the same -- I have no air tools, no lift ... is this something an amateur mechanic could do? With no impact wrench or special tools? Is the fact that my car is an automatic going to make it more difficult?

Any glimmer of hope would be nice, but it looks like I am preparing for a heart transplant for #2613. Any advice on engine swaps would be appreciated -- like, maybe, where to get a functioning, compatible PRV for less than $1000...

Thanks in advance.

[Hokie]

OMG that video was so sad! :( I feel like someone should play 'taps...' Good luck to you man, and if I hear anything about an engine I'll let you know. Don't ever give up!

[Farrar]

Thanks, Hokie! No, I'm not giving up. Maybe this is my excuse to put an even-fire 3.0L in there...

[Doogie]

Ouch. Yea, we've seen similiar stuff. Here's one of the oil being drained. Little too much water :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXqogKyGwyc


There are a few possibilities:

1. coolant leak in the engine valley has entered a pin hole and filled the crankcase.

TRUE: But if you fix one pinhole, 3 come to the funeral, and you have to fix those, and again and again..

2. cylinder liner has failed.

POSSIBLE: Complete engine tear down and rebuild is warranted if this is the case.


What are the other possibilities?

Boy that's the million dollar question.. If you are LUCKY, it could be a failed Head gasket, allowing Oil and water to mix.

Most of the people I have talked to so far have said it's time for a new engine -- especially since I have that pin hole on the top of the engine.

So my motto is "hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

I have never swapped out an engine before. Granted, my car is carbureted so there's not a whole lot on top of the engine, but all the same -- I have no air tools, no lift ... is this something an amateur mechanic could do? With no impact wrench or special tools? Is the fact that my car is an automatic going to make it more difficult?

Sure, with help from friends, you can do the engine swap. No Air compressor tools are not a problem, but you have to have tools. Personally, I think it being an AutoMatic makes it MUCH easier (No clutch splines to line up getting it back in, no clutch lines to mess with). Being a Carbed car prolly makes it easier also (none of the K-Jet stuff to work around). If you find a "Complete Engine", you'll have to swap all the Carb stuff from the old to the replacement, or go back to stock.

Any glimmer of hope would be nice, but it looks like I am preparing for a heart transplant for #2613. Any advice on engine swaps would be appreciated -- like, maybe, where to get a functioning, compatible PRV for less than $1000...

Thanks in advance.

Glimmer of Hope: Hang onto the thought you just have a Bad Head Gasket. No engine removal required. If you are lucky lucky, you found the problem before any coolant circulating where oil is supposed to be did any damage.

Perhaps a compression test is in order first. You should be able to get a compression tester loaned from AutoZone / Napa / etc.

A compression test might show a few things. Low Cylinder compression in one or more obviously means something is wrong. (Crossed fingers: Head Gasket :nana1: )

I remember that you can apply pressure from an air hose (oops, might need a compressor for this test 8) ) into the Spark Plug holes and look for bubbles in the coolant overflow. If you get bubbles, you got troubles! (Head gasket! yea!)

But I'm not sure how to test for how coolant is getting into oil.

I'll let the better shade tree mechanics chime in here on that. Don't give up the hope! If I was close, I was definitely lend a helping hand!

Doogie

[Farrar]

I bought a compression tester back when I was having other engine problems, so fortunately, I can do that! Thanks!

[hmcelraft]

Coolant in the oil is usually an indication of a major fault. It may be repairable but complete disassembly is probably the only way to find and fix it. In my opinion the fault, with the highest probability is erosion of the block at the union of a cylinder liner and the block. It is just a simple function of dissimilar metals, time, and a harsh environment created by running and setting. Block rot.

[Farrar]

It just occurred to me that I had a peanut-butter-like substance on the underside of the oil breather a couple of years ago. I chalked it up to condensation since I had only been making short trips in the car, changed the oil, drove it 500 miles, changed the oil again, and drove on. Now I am wondering if this coolant-in-the-oil thing was actually the problem all along, and it's merely got worse while the engine sat with coolant in it.

Here's something I found on the Internet:


When an engine is designed with a coolant oil cooler it can fail allowing coolant into the engine. After the engine has been run and then shut off the cooling system will have about 15 pounds residual pressure forcing coolant into the engine oil.

Thoughts?

[davidc89]

Depending on how long you have had coolant in the oil, you may want to check the rod and main bearings. Coolant can eat away at these causing premature failure of the bearing.

[jangell]

I have never swapped out an engine before. Granted, my car is carbureted so there's not a whole lot on top of the engine, but all the same -- I have no air tools, no lift ... is this something an amateur mechanic could do? With no impact wrench or special tools? Is the fact that my car is an automatic going to make it more difficult?

I have never pulled an engine either, but wound up doing so when I found a hole in my block as I began an EFI conversion. Next weekend I'll be lifting a 3.0L engine into my car. I've been detailing my progress on my site (http://www.tmproductions.com/repairs-and-maintenance), if it helps; I've tried to be as thorough as possible.

I also do not have a lift, nor any reasonable air tools. You really just need a way to get the car high enough that you can disconnect everything, and then an engine hoist to lift it out of the car. You can do all the bolt removal with hand tools.

I think a 2.8L PRV will probably run you at least a couple thousand dollars used, unless you can find one from a Volvo in a junkyard. I decided to do the 3.0L upgrade, and found one on eBay for $250 plus another $200 for freight shipping. But the DMC ignition/fuel components aren't compatible, so you'll need to do an aftermarket fuel/spark solution (I'm going MegaSquirt, like so many others have). The intake manifold design is intended for EFI, so I'm not sure how hard converting to a carburetor would be, should you want to go that route.

I had other unrelated issues: I discovered some holes in the frame that I needed to weld (which first involved learning to weld), and eight or so months (over the last year and a half) of just waiting for parts to arrive, waiting for USPS to find a lost box of parts (they never did), and waiting for the weather to warm up so I could to paint the welded frame patches. At this point I'm hoping to get it operational in late June or July, assuming something else doesn't come up.

Good luck!

-- Joe

[davidc89]

If you took the oil pan off and then pressurized the cooling system(with a radiator pressure tester) you might see where the leak is if it isinternal. That would test to see if your cylinder wall was leaking or possibly head gasket. That's really the only way I know how to check for internal leaks.

[Farrar]

Cylinders 1 and 3 are leaking. The other four cylinders are not leaking.

In other news, I looked underneath the intake manifold because I saw liquid there. In this photo you can see where my previous engine hole repair is.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34215&stc=1

I mopped up some of the liquid with a papertowel. It looked like oil, but was absorbed very quickly into the papertowel, so it is quite a thin liquid.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34216&stc=1

Then I saw this puddle, which clinches it.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34217&stc=1

Joe, thanks for the link to the blog! I have bookmarked it. It looks like I will probably end up with a 3.0L engine swap. Assuming the original electronics are gone from the donor car, or they don't work, I will probably end up MegaSquirting it. (Anyone else besides me think that "MegaSquirt" sounds a little NC-17-ish?)

[jangell]

Joe, thanks for the link to the blog! I have bookmarked it. It looks like I will probably end up with a 3.0L engine swap. Assuming the original electronics are gone from the donor car, or they don't work, I will probably end up MegaSquirting it. (Anyone else besides me think that "MegaSquirt" sounds a little NC-17-ish?)

There's a short section on the MegaSquirt site where they talk about the name, and that once it got popular it was too late to change it. I get the impression they'd have preferred to go with something a bit more professional had they known.

I don't know if anyone has used the original electronics from a donor car, nor do I know if it's possible at all. One issue is that the crank sensors is on the transmission in the Eagle/Monaco, while none exists in the DeLorean normally. The 3.0L swaps seem to favor welding a missing tooth gear to the back of the main pulley so that MegaSquirt et la can read it.

Also, remember that you'll probably be spending another $1500 or so on the EFI parts (MegaSquirt, fuel lines, pressure regulator, etc), although you can probably sell some of your old parts on eBay. Probably still cheaper than buying a 2.8L, and likely more efficient as well.

-- Joe

[Josh]

sub'd

Joe knows his stuff as he is going through the same thing!

[David T]

If you took the oil pan off and then pressurized the cooling system(with a radiator pressure tester) you might see where the leak is if it isinternal. That would test to see if your cylinder wall was leaking or possibly head gasket. That's really the only way I know how to check for internal leaks.

The only way to know if the motor is salvageable is to perform some diagnostic tests including oil pressure, compression, leak-down, and coolant system pressurization. Once you do that and interpret the results you may be better off replacing the motor. Especially if you don't have the knowledge or tools to repair it. Doesn't really matter automatic or 5-speed. With that much coolant in the oil you probably lost all the bearings and rings because with that much water you don't get enough lubrication. One possibility is you have a coolant leak on top of the motor and it gets into the oil through the holes in the top of the block. A better repair and fixing the coolant leaks may be enough assuming you didn't burn out your bearings and rings yet.

[DARCOM]

I would pull the motor a see what went wrong. Then rebuild it if possible. But if you want to try your luck you can try stealseal, it fixed one of my engines tell i could get around to rebuilding it.

[Farrar]

I'm going to put exhaust on it so that I can do a proper compression test by turning the key. Maybe later this week. Here's hoping.

[DMCMW Dave]

I'm going to put exhaust on it so that I can do a proper compression test by turning the key. Maybe later this week. Here's hoping.

You don't need the exhaust on it for a compression test. Just a functional starter.

[Josh]

You don't need the exhaust on it for a compression test. Just a functional starter.

x2

ive compression tested an engine while it was sitting on a pallet! you can jump the starter directly to a battery if you have everything unhooked. Not recommended but do-able.

[DMCVegas]

It just occurred to me that I had a peanut-butter-like substance on the underside of the oil breather a couple of years ago.

Like this:

3421834219

[Farrar]

I realize I made a mistake on the post at the top of this page: it should say "leak test"not "compression test." My bad.


You don't need the exhaust on it for a compression test. Just a functional starter.

That sounds noisy, but OK. :)


Like this:

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34218&stc=1http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34219&stc=1

Yep, it looked pretty much like that. (I am pretty sure I had some pictures of it, but they were on the .com version of the site.) I ended up taking the oil breather/filler apart and cleaning it as best as I could. The consensus at the time was that I hadn't been running the car enough to get the engine good and hot, and the substance was caused by water condensation in the oil passages.

[dn010]

Before going the "swap" route, I'd at least pull the head and see if you've got a gasket issue or if it is worse like a corroded block. If it is only a head gasket then it is the cheapest easiest repair compared to pulling the engine and doing a swap especially if you don't have tools or a engine hoist of some kind. You don't necessarily need air tools but they make life easier, especially when it comes to the crank pulley nut. For a head gasket you'll just need a torque wrench and angle gauge.

Stock D engines do not have a "coolant oil cooler", the later engines may depending on the vehicle - Volvo 780s do - it is a heat exchanger that mounts under the oil filter. I am running one of them but they're a pain with hose routing if you've got headers and the original hoses are always close be being shot - they're tough to duplicate due to their shape/contour.

You CAN integrate a donor stock system (ECUs and all - in my case, I used the 780 again) into the DeLorean, but it is a PITA and the biggest obstacle is mounting the trigger ring and sensor in the bellhousing. I know of one other person that did this besides myself, and we both are now running MegaSquirt systems instead.

A swap is nice but a really long road. If you do end up needing an engine and want to keep it stock, I know someone who has a stock DeLorean engine for sale with about ~77 K on it, running when pulled, you would just need to swap the lower crankcase out since I needed to use it on my current engine :)

[jangell]

I wound agree with pulling the head first (not that I'm an expert or anything). If the engine is bad, you likely wouldn't have to put the head back on before pulling the engine/trans (the lift rings are attached to the heads, but are plenty of other places a chain could be attached).

If you do a swap, I highly recommend stripping the 2.8L engine down. You may be able to sell some of the parts on eBay, and you will definitely learn a lot about the internals of the engine if you've never done something like that before (I know I did). It helps a lot when diagnosing problems in the future, just because you have a better idea of where things, how things move inside, where the fluids run, etc.

I admit I'm slightly surprised that the 780 engine electronics worked in the DeLorean, but thinking about it more I suppose they're pretty independent and it seems reasonable that it would work. I guess i was thinking they might be tied to the rest of the car's electronics, but it's not like the original DeLorean's are in any way. I expect it's also cheaper than getting a MegaSquirt setup.

-- Joe

[DMCVegas]

Yep, it looked pretty much like that. (I am pretty sure I had some pictures of it, but they were on the .com version of the site.) I ended up taking the oil breather/filler apart and cleaning it as best as I could. The consensus at the time was that I hadn't been running the car enough to get the engine good and hot, and the substance was caused by water condensation in the oil passages.

Water condensation from an engine that is ran frequently, but NOT up to temperature can cause that, yes. A good example would be Chrysler PowerTech engines. Both in V8 and a PRV-esque V6 form where two cylinders were just lopped-off. Unlike other cars that may connect a purge hose for crankcase gasses off of a dedicated boss from the valve cover, they decided to go the route of using the oil filler neck like the PRV. But instead of pulling it through the oil cap like the PRV, they instead have it pull from from the side of the neck, below the cap. So since hot gasses never rise up to boil the condensation off, that sludge collects at the top where the hollow, insulated cap remains cold and collects condensation.

http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13727&stc=1&d=1264282750

Chrysler's fix was to insert a baffle that goes below the oil filler cap. But most oil change places just leave them sitting on the engine where they fall off while driving, and I've had 3 Service Advisors in as many states tell me that the baffle wasn't even necessary. Which was my last time buying anything from the Pentastar. Anyway...

Now I've heard of having this sludge collect down in the crank case of an engine where it isn't ran up to temperature frequently. Especially on cars in storage where the owners start them infrequently, yet never bring them to temperature. Not just with a DeLorean, but any car out there. But I've never seen anything like this condensation issue in the oil filler neck before on a PRV. Doesn't mean it's not impossible, as we can see from other engines. I'd love to hear from others on that. But the one thing that I can tell you is that when you've got a leaking head gasket, the only way for the pressure to escape is through the oil filler cap. The steel mesh insert does a pretty good job at keeping the crud out of the filter box, and CSV tube, and all of the hoses. But once that mesh fills up and blocks the crankcase gasses from escaping, it'll go for the next weakest point. As I found out on my engine, it was the Front Main Seal. Once I cleaned the mesh back out, it was fine again, but when it clogged back up, the FMS would squirt a steady stream of engine oil out. For reference, I was going through about a half-gallon of coolant a week at that point.

[Mark D]

Sorry to hear about your engine troubles. Any troubleshooting advice that I'd give you has already been said for the most part... If there is one positive thing to come away with is that when shit like this happens you know at the very least you'll have a forum full of fellow owners to try and help you out.

Once you figure out the actual source of the coolant leak I think your main decision will come down to the price of repairing your engine vs the price of replacing it. If it were me I'd probably be leaning towards the replacement route since you've got known block rot issues in the VOD. It may end up being more expensive to replace the engine but if there was ever an opportunity to make a fresh start with a known good engine this is definitely it.

Best of luck with this project...it sucks it came right at a time right when you were trying to get your car back on the road.

[Farrar]

Thanks everyone for pitching in!

The DeLorean community is amazing. Here, and even on Facebook, people I've never even met have been offering their advice. One person even located a 3.0L donor engine just a couple of hours from my home -- just in case!

I've never done a head gasket replacement before, but I have a feeling that if it comes to that, it will go a lot easier with experienced folks here able to contribute their knowledge to what I can glean from the Workshop Manual. For example, Joe's blog is remarkably detailed, and I have already taken a few pointers from it. (For example, I had no idea there was such a thing as Permatex Gasket Remover!)

I feel a lot less nervous now than I did on Saturday. You guys rock! :D

[Mark D]

Water condensation from an engine that is ran frequently, but NOT up to temperature can cause that, yes. ...

Build up like this is somewhat common in 3 series BMW's. E46 owners affectionaly call the yellow sludge "BMW Mayo". It forms on the inside of the valve cover and oil fill cap for similar reasons... like a clogged crank case breather/oil separator or a failed open thermostat that is preventing the engine from coming up to temp.

What's shown in that picture above is pretty extreme though. To build up enough condensation to make that much mayo would mean a lot of short trips where the engine never has time to burn off condensation build up.

What was the actual cause of the sludge in those photos? Was it a coolant leak or just condensation? You could make a few sammiches with that much mayo :-D

[DMCMW Dave]

RE compression test - it won't be noisy as you don't actually start the engine. You are just turning it with the starter. For the leakdown test you don't even do that.

[DMCVegas]

What was the actual cause of the sludge in those photos? Was it a coolant leak or just condensation? You could make a few sammiches with that much mayo :-D

No, it's a common problem with these engines. If you google "Jeep Libery Oil sludge/goop/foam", it's all over their message boards as a known issue. Mostly it appears to be happening up north though. It's an absolute design flaw with the oil filler neck. The cap itself is one of those clickable ones, like a gas cap. So it has this large cavity of air inside that doesn't heat up right away. Most engines have a separate vapor line to ventilate the crankcase gasses. So not only do they never blow across the oil cap, but they're kept in relatively warm tubes away from cold surfaces. Even with the PRV venting through the filler neck, the gasses still vent through the hollow cap and into the manifold and airbag. So the hot gasses from the crankcase warm everything up. But with the Chrysler design, that vapor goes right across the cap with stays cold for a much longer period of time than the rest of the engine because it's basically insulated. So it keeps contesting water vapor that traps oil, and you get sludge. Chrysler's fix for this was a baffle insert to try and route gasses away from the cap, but aside from technicians constantly loosing them during oil changes, they just don't work that well.

It's also an interesting side note about this problem and synthetic oil. I've always been told that synthetic can clean an engine and cause problems like leaks and knocking dirt loose. A couple of threads I've seen with the Jeep Liberty owners have said that while they routinely just cleaned out the sludge, it apparently was collecting and dripping down. Because when they switched to full synthetic, globs of sludge would start coming out with the waste oil as the engine cleaned itself out.

Now again, I don't have experience with DeLoreans from up north, so I don't know if this sludge problem happens up there. It might be possible, I don't know. I doubt it, but don't know. If BMWs have this problem, it's probably something in that design creating/catching condensation so that it doesn't get fully heated up. In my case, after overheating the engine 9 times (not a typo) thanks to both a string of prior idiot mechanics that did damage I didn't catch in time, and even two follies of my own doing, I was going through about a half gallon of coolant a week. That much excessive water vapor never even stood a chance at avoiding condensation.

[Farrar]

I just got an interesting offer from an owner in Texas who occasionally crosses into Louisiana: he has a block that he's willing to let me have for the stunning price of $0. All I have to do is wait until he's around, then go and meet him and pick up the block.

Amazing!

[Dangermouse]

No, it's a common problem with these engines. If you google "Jeep Libery Oil sludge/goop/foam", it's all over their message boards as a known issue. Mostly it appears to be happening up north though. It's an absolute design flaw with the oil filler neck. The cap itself is one of those clickable ones, like a gas cap. So it has this large cavity of air inside that doesn't heat up right away. Most engines have a separate vapor line to ventilate the crankcase gasses. So not only do they never blow across the oil cap, but they're kept in relatively warm tubes away from cold surfaces. Even with the PRV venting through the filler neck, the gasses still vent through the hollow cap and into the manifold and airbag. So the hot gasses from the crankcase warm everything up. But with the Chrysler design, that vapor goes right across the cap with stays cold for a much longer period of time than the rest of the engine because it's basically insulated. So it keeps contesting water vapor that traps oil, and you get sludge. Chrysler's fix for this was a baffle insert to try and route gasses away from the cap, but aside from technicians constantly loosing them during oil changes, they just don't work that well.

It's also an interesting side note about this problem and synthetic oil. I've always been told that synthetic can clean an engine and cause problems like leaks and knocking dirt loose. A couple of threads I've seen with the Jeep Liberty owners have said that while they routinely just cleaned out the sludge, it apparently was collecting and dripping down. Because when they switched to full synthetic, globs of sludge would start coming out with the waste oil as the engine cleaned itself out.

Now again, I don't have experience with DeLoreans from up north, so I don't know if this sludge problem happens up there. It might be possible, I don't know. I doubt it, but don't know. If BMWs have this problem, it's probably something in that design creating/catching condensation so that it doesn't get fully heated up. In my case, after overheating the engine 9 times (not a typo) thanks to both a string of prior idiot mechanics that did damage I didn't catch in time, and even two follies of my own doing, I was going through about a half gallon of coolant a week. That much excessive water vapor never even stood a chance at avoiding condensation.

Saabs of a certain age have this problem too. My 2000 9-3 series had 6 recalls for modified PCV hose routing changes, plus a redesigned oil filler neck, with extra vent, before they got it right.

[Farrar]

he has a block that he's willing to let me have for the stunning price of $0.

Here's the catch: it needs rebuilding. That will take me months and I will have to buy tools (for cylinder honing, ring installation, et cetera).

Which is easier to rebuild, a 2.8L or a 3.0L?

[David T]

Here's the catch: it needs rebuilding. That will take me months and I will have to buy tools (for cylinder honing, ring installation, et cetera).

Which is easier to rebuild, a 2.8L or a 3.0L?

Everything being equal and you can get parts for both, there is no difference. As a practical issue no 2 used motors are the same. One will need more than the other. It doesn't matter 2.8 or 3.0. If you don't have experience rebuilding a motor or any tools, your best choice is to get another motor that is all assembled. I would do the testing and take the heads off. Maybe your motor is not so bad and can be fixed with "just" a top job.

[jangell]

I think I was in the same boat as you before I started my 3.0L swap, but with based on my very, very limited experience, I'd agree with David T here. I didn't find doing the top of the engine to be very difficult. The heads aren't TOO hard to remove, and a machine shop would do the precision work of resurfacing and replacing the valve stems.

While I did completely take apart my 2.8L engine as learning exercise, I got the impression that it's a harder to rebuild the bottom of the engine properly, and that it requires some precision tools to get the alignments correct. But I haven't actually done it.

-- Joe

[opethmike]

Everything being equal and you can get parts for both, there is no difference. As a practical issue no 2 used motors are the same. One will need more than the other. It doesn't matter 2.8 or 3.0. If you don't have experience rebuilding a motor or any tools, your best choice is to get another motor that is all assembled. I would do the testing and take the heads off. Maybe your motor is not so bad and can be fixed with "just" a top job.

The block has holes in the intake valley, so I don't think that 'just' a top job is going to help much.

[Farrar]

The block has holes in the intake valley, so I don't think that 'just' a top job is going to help much.

Correct. Oil is collecting in the engine valley. This means that one of my previous repairs has failed, or a new pinhole has opened up between the cylinder banks.

[Farrar]

If tests confirm that my stock block is indeed a piece of Melba, I will probably lean toward swapping in a 3.0L upper. As long as I am rebuilding something, I might as well rebuild something with a few more cubic centimeters that will idle smoothly.

[Farrar]

Melba. Toast. Get it? I can't believe no one got it.

Anyway, I poured water into the intake valley tonight. If there's a pin hole, then in time I should be able to drain water out of the oil pan. I was careful to fill the water to a level above the casting fins (or whatever they're called) so that every recess, shallow and deep, was filled with water.

Fingers crossed.

[Nicholas R]

Depending on how tiny the hole is, the surface tension may be enough to prevent the water from seeping in; especially since it's not under pressure. If you add a drop or two of dish soap it can help break down the surface tension and it may flow better.

Best of luck :thumbup:

[Farrar]

Depending on how tiny the hole is, the surface tension may be enough to prevent the water from seeping in; especially since it's not under pressure. If you add a drop or two of dish soap it can help break down the surface tension and it may flow better.

It's mixed with antifreeze. Maybe that will help...?

[Farrar]

This is curious.

There is one place in the valley where the water level has gone down a lot. It is also where the water has become much more green than it was yesterday.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34259&stc=1http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34260&stc=1
(Sorry for poor-quality pics - taken with phone and cheap flashlight.)

Is the seal at the back of the water pump prone to leaking? I installed a new pump with new seals back in 2009, if that means anything.

[DMCMW Dave]

Question - since this started, have you cranked the engine? If the leak is the cylinders, and the sump filled with antifreeze, it wouldn't take much cranking time to get into the filter.

[Farrar]

since this started, have you cranked the engine?

No.

[DMCMW Dave]

No.

OK, because other than leaking into the oil galleys from above that's about the only way it can get into the filter. If it's a cylinder jug seal, it can't run uphill to the filter.

[Farrar]

What are the chances my cylinder liners are OK and I have a pin hole behind the water pump AND a leaking rear water pump seal? Would that eventually cause coolant to end up in the oil filter? Or am I too hopeful? :P

[David T]

What are the chances my cylinder liners are OK and I have a pin hole behind the water pump AND a leaking rear water pump seal? Would that eventually cause coolant to end up in the oil filter? Or am I too hopeful? :P

The only way I can think of water getting into the filter is somehow it gets into the crankcase and then the motor is turned (started or at least cranked) and the oil pump pumps the oil and water into the filter.

[Farrar]

While I'm working on other stuff and can't devote 100% of my attention to the DeLorean this week, I'm going to take a few minutes do a leak-down test just for fun and see what I find.

[Hokie]

Farrar - I've been rooting for you buddy! Any updates? Any good news I hope?

[Farrar]

Farrar - I've been rooting for you buddy! Any updates? Any good news I hope?

Thanks, Hokie! No news right now as I haven't had any garage time. The last few weekends have been busy with "real life" things, and the summer semester is in full swing now, as well. If I can catch up on my homework and laundry this weekend, I will be able to get back into the garage at some point before Sunday night.

[Farrar]

I finally got around to taking the old oil to the shop to be recycled. It was supposed to be 20w50, but it poured out like water. There was a lot of coolant in there.

Between the hole in the top of the engine and the massive coolant leak into the oil, I am assuming that this engine is toast. I'm not going to do anything until I have the time, money, tools, and space to replace the engine.

Thanks to all who tried to troubleshoot and help me out.