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MSpieler
09-15-2015, 05:01 PM
Hello Delorean Community!

Wanted to formally introduce my restoration project and mission with all of you. I have been a Delorean owner for 10 years (purchased on March 19th 2005, See title below), but only got to enjoy a few months with a running car. After much tinkering, I started dismantling the car and discovered that the car had been in a flood and was never issued a salvaged title. Since then I have explored multiple options for restoring the car, but every outcome yielded an unreliable solution and could potentially become a money pit project. I even considered selling the car/parts, but deep down I couldn’t part with my dream car. So today I am proud to announce that I will be doing a complete restomod of my Delorean (VIN 5210) and will be sharing all of the hard work with you!

My mission with this project is to share all of the CAD, wiring diagrams, programing and parts inventory with the community, in hopes that it could help other owners who want to modernize their car on a budget. At the heart of this project are several core principles I will follow to ensure quality, reliability and usability. The principles are as followed:

Goal – To keep more Delorean’s on the road and bring a car that was ahead of its time, to the future once again.

Target total cost of parts for the project - $12,000-$16,000 USD
Target Timeline length – One Year

- Equipping the car with a light weight performance EFI engine and drivetrain

o I have had enough of others who mock the Delorean for having an unreliable and weak engine, which we all know isn’t entirely true. I would be happy to put in a PRV engine with EFI modification (i.e. Josh’s kit from DPI), but a good condition engine and transmission is not within my budget. That is why I am looking for a suitable replacement that fits comfortably into the engine bay, that is reliable and has enough power for a spirited daily driver. (preliminary engine and transmission concepts below)

- No major alterations to the chassis or body

o All parts created will simply bolt on to the existing architecture without needing to cut into the frame or weld components to the chassis. Only small (less than ˝”diameter) holes are allowed to accommodate new parts.

- All parts made can be fabricated at local machine shops

o Parts such as transmission transfer plates, engine mounts, interior modifications, etc. will be available as a Solidworks part files and drawing packages, with which you could bring to a machine or fabrication shop of your choice.


- An Original car with modern touches

o The Delorean interior is iconic, but many of the electrical and mechanical components are prone to failure. The parts I will be focusing on updating will be:

- Replacing the vacuum driven air handler unit with electromechanically driven system.
- Updating all interior electrical system with a computer driven solution, which will utilize either Raspberry pi, Intel Edison, or NVIDIA Jetson TK1.
- Updating Interior comfort with Dynamat, high quality leather and carpeting.
- Updating instrument cluster electronics

As the project progresses, I am sure that new guidelines will be added to ensure that those who follow this project can replicate the results on their own and achieve the same, if not better, success.

Please Note, I have infinite amount of respect and admiration for the Delorean Motor Company team, but that original parts for the Delorean are becoming more scares every year and I want those parts to go to preserving working vehicles. The research and development work of companies like DMC and DPI is critical and invaluable to Delorean owners in keeping our dreams on the road. My motivation is help keep more Deloreans on the road, rather than dooming other projects to become parts cars. I want to help provide an updated low cost solution for those who want to work on building or rebuilding their dream.

That being said, I am open to comments, suggestions, feedback and constructive criticism in an effort to build trust through transparency and open up to an inspiring community to gen involved in continuing the legacy of John Delorean.

I also would like to thank you in advance for your attention, support and patience as I do my best to provide updates as progress is made. Unfortunately given my current state of employment and education, there may be periods of time in which I will be unable to work on my project, but I will still try to respond to as many inquires as I can.


Current Progress as of September 13, 2015

VIN 5210 has been moved to its new home at my home north of Boston! The move was both damage control, to keep it out of the elements and a strategic move so that I could work on it during the winter. Note the car has already been dismantled down to the tub and chassis, with only a few components left on the car. All the stainless steel is in perfect shape, in a storage rack I designed to protect them for a long periods of time. Also, I held on to as many non-water damaged parts that I could and are also stored off site with the stainless.
The Tub is in very good shape with only a few cosmetic imperfections, such as a fading of the glossy clear coat and a small chip in the rear of the car, in the engine bay. I’m currently looking into local locations to do a gentle baking soda media blast and to applying a durable clear coat or Polyurea to protect the tub. The Cassis has only minor surface rust and relatively minor epoxy delamination, but I will be having the frame blasted and refinished with a powder coating either way.


First project part!
- Left and right Bulked inserts: I currently have measured the parts and will be drafting them up in Solidworks either this week or next and will share the drawing via pdf, until I can identify an external file sharing solution for the part files. I’m currently researching other materials to replace the plywood, but I’m open to martial suggestions and or input on how to replace those parts.

Engine Options
- I’m a huge fan of the VR6 swaps but, after researching other engine swaps and measuring the engine bay, I have focused the bulk of my research on Ford inline 4 engines that can be turbo charged (i.e. 2.3L ecoboost and 2L Duratec/ Zetec) that provide up to +250bhp out of the box. The reasoning behind the focus on these engines are because they are small, light weight and come with a plug in engine ECU kit (Link to Ford Performance (http://fordperformanceracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=25303)). I am still researching options at the moment and I am still very open minded on suggestions. Let me know what you all think would make the best engine swap!

Have any other questions? Feel free to ask in the thread or PM me directly

A big thanks to everyone on the forum, DPI and DMC! And an extra special thanks to clenet (http://dmctalk.org/member.php?66653-clenet) and others in DMCNE.
I look forward to our discussions and sharing this project with you!


Many thanks!
- Mike

Rich W
09-15-2015, 05:35 PM
Hi Mike,

Good Luck with the project, but beware of the pit-falls of "budget creep" with "over-restoring" parts like the frame, if it's not absolutely necessary.

While I am a big backer of doing as much as you can "while you are in there", such as replace seals whenever and where ever possible, re-doing
items like the frame with a complete strip and powder-coat can run as much as 1/4 to 1/3 of your current budget (when the work is out-sourced).
If the frame is as good as you say, you may want to strip and re-finish the areas of concern and save funds for other parts of the project. A good
example of this is the current VR6 project that Eddie is working on, with frame work done, as needed, and re-finished in Rustoleum Smoke Gray.

A lot of your work will be based upon how you intend to use the car when its done (or as soon as it is road-ready). If it will not see Winter roads,
powder-coating the frame may a bit over-kill, but that is one of the decisions you will need to make. If you keep the HP at 250 or under, you may
not need to upgrade the brakes much, such as maybe only upgrading the front brakes to vented rotors and upgraded pads, but again, this will be
something that you will need to decide upon based on your intended use and the amount of HP the engine swap will be making.

Keep in mind that it is OK to do some of this work in phases and you may be able to get the car back on the road sooner, and make some upgrades
and changes down the line (during Winter months each year), while enjoying the car sooner, if you get all the major work done and road-ready first.

Again, good luck with the project and keep us posted with progress updates, when you can.

See you at DCS 2016?

Lwanmtr
09-15-2015, 08:26 PM
Sounds like a fun project.

I hope you will document everything..and if it all works, maybe put together a set of instructions with lists of parts, etc in your upgrades.

Im still in the process of just bringing mine back to life...but would (in the future) like to modernize the car...that is when money allows..lol

MSpieler
09-15-2015, 09:08 PM
Thanks for the advice Rich!
Great points about the chassis restoration and, to answer your question on use, I do plan on driving it frequently but not daily. I was planning on getting a quote from East Coast Refinishing & Surface Stripping Inc. later this month once I had stripped the chassis down. I had been looking at using some chemical rust removal products like POR-15 (http://www.por15.com/) as a way to preventing the exposed metal from rusting further and using Alvin's Lab Metal (http://www.alvinproducts.com/ProductLine/tabid/62/aT/View/ProductID/3/Lab-metal.aspx) to repair the surface. Have you ever used either of those products? I'll plan on taking some more pictures of the rust spots, to better identify the better course of action.

I agree with you that the brakes, particularly up front, will need to be upgraded in the future to accommodate for the bump in power. My ideal horsepower is probably just over 280-310HP, which will require me to do some amping up a couple other components but I can only speculate until I nail down an engine. I really want to get is on the road sooner and I certainly hope to see you and the community at DCS 2016!
(P.s. I'm a big fan of your work!)

Also, thanks for the encouragement Rob!
I do certainly plan on documenting everything, sharing all drawings and putting together some how-to videos like Nick Roedl did.

Lwanmtr
09-15-2015, 09:16 PM
Not sure of engine designations...but the 3.2 v6 in my 99 Mustang was pretty reliable..not sure if you looked at those...only 197 hp..but decent

MSpieler
09-15-2015, 09:41 PM
Thanks! I have been considering a Ford v6, specifically the 3.6L V6 Ecoboost (http://fordperformanceracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22829) (which will be used in the new Ford GT in 2017) but my hesitation is that the block dimension and configuration will be too large. The Duratech V6's from 1994-2012 were a 60 degree piston configuration, where as the PRV was at 90 degrees (much like the Ford 289/302). Also, from what I can gather, the PRV block length was only about 19" long from crank pulley to fly wheel, which is a rather small space envelope to fit in. I'll do a deeper dig on the 99' Mustang engine and continue gathering as much technical engine data as the project moves along.

Nicholas R
09-16-2015, 12:47 AM
Thanks! I have been considering a Ford v6, specifically the 3.6L V6 Ecoboost (http://fordperformanceracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22829) (which will be used in the new Ford GT in 2017) but my hesitation is that the block dimension and configuration will be too large. The Duratech V6's from 1994-2012 were a 60 degree piston configuration, where as the PRV was at 90 degrees (much like the Ford 289/302). Also, from what I can gather, the PRV block length was only about 19" long from crank pulley to fly wheel, which is a rather small space envelope to fit in. I'll do a deeper dig on the 99' Mustang engine and continue gathering as much technical engine data as the project moves along.

Please consider this advice; choose an engine that has a lot of aftermarket engine swap support. This will pay dividends in the future when you're trying to come up with custom parts and adapters, as well as when you have questions about how to wire, program, and get things going. This will also help in 15 years when you're trying to get replacement parts.

There are a lot of engines that sound like they would be awesome to have in the car, but you will be 100% on your own figuring it all out. Especially as cars and engines get more complicated, this will be more and more difficult.

My first choice wasn't actually the LS1 (though now I dont know why I would have chosen anything else). In the beginning I was looking for the Cadillac Northstar LH2 engine. My reasoning was that it was a little smaller, and I know people had success with the older Northstars in DeLoeans in the 90s. After doing some research, I realized that was a ridiculous idea because no one anywhere was swapping LH2 Northstar engines so I'd be completely on my own. I couldn't even buy a Northstar flywheel because EVERY production vehicle with an LH2 Northstar was automatic, and therefore had a flexplate. Then I entered the LS world. There are forums after forums after forums dedicated to LS engines and how to swap them. There are libraries of books, manuals, diagrams, etc. on how to build, install, modify, and improve them. When I needed help getting something working, the DeLorean forum was not the place to go; it was searches on LS1Tech/LS1/LS1LT1/LS1GTO/CamaroZ28/and all of the other LS based forums. Then there were the parts stores. Jegs/Summit Racing/Speedway Motors/etc. are full of aftermarket LS engine parts. And when it came to reprogramming the computer my local tuning shop was able to help with everything.

Obviously I can only speak from the LS perspective. Maybe the ford and other engines you're talking about have the same support, maybe not; I honestly dont know. Just be sure to do the research on what kind of safety net you'll have available when you hit a wall. This is stuff you need to know long before you choose a path, not after.

Best of luck! :thumbup: This sounds like a pretty awesome project; I hope you're able to see it all the way through the way you want. Those of us that have engine swapped cars are here if you need to ask questions. I will say this; (not to discourage you) your timeline sounds pretty aggressive. An engine swap alone is usually about 6 months to a 1 year by itself if you're working on it a lot. Add on top of that a full car restoration?... That is certainly a lot of work. I'm not saying it's not possible or taking a jab at you, I'm just trying to be realistic. I'd hate for you to make an unrealistic goal and loose motivation on the project as a result.

Keep us updated on your progress! :thumbup2: :wrenchin:

Bitsyncmaster
09-16-2015, 05:38 AM
I've also been thinking of replacing the heavy plywood panels in the DeLorean. I have two options I'm toying with.

1. Cut foam for the core and face with a layer or two of fiberglass.

2. Or use a honeycomb core and face it with fiberglass.
https://www.acpsales.com/Core-Materials-and-Foam.html

I think they already have a honeycomb core already faced. That stuff was used with experimental aircraft construction and is way stronger than you would need but very pricey.

MSpieler
09-16-2015, 10:59 AM
Please consider this advice; choose an engine that has a lot of aftermarket engine swap support. This will pay dividends in the future when you're trying to come up with custom parts and adapters, as well as when you have questions about how to wire, program, and get things going. This will also help in 15 years when you're trying to get replacement parts.

There are a lot of engines that sound like they would be awesome to have in the car, but you will be 100% on your own figuring it all out. Especially as cars and engines get more complicated, this will be more and more difficult.

Hey Nick,
Thank you for your input and advice! No worries about discouraging me, I do agree that my timeline is a bit aggressive and your philosophy on choosing an engine is spot on. I too was inspired by projects like the Northstar engine and the Lotus engine swap but, the one that caught my attention the most was the Eagle Premier EFI PRV swap I saw at DMC back in 2008. Since then I checked ebay and my local auto scrap yard on a regular basis for years for a donor car, but no luck. About a year ago, a friend of mine introduced me to a tuner shop that wanted to swap in a Toyota 2JZGTE engine but, quickly realized that I didn't have the funds to support their budget. I think the appeal of the inline 4 Ford engine is that they are used in all sorts of motorsports, such as Esslinger Engineering's (http://www.esslingeracing.com/) Ford 2300 SOHC used in midget racers or Cosworth Duratec (http://www.cosworth.com/products/crate-engines/duratec-engines/) used in Caterhams and Formula 2 cars. That being said, I will follow up on your advice and see what kind of supporting documentation I can get and find additional online safety nets / resources to help move the project along. Hopefully I can hit my target of one year, but the reality of the project will have to dictate the timeline rather than my enthusiasm.

I look forward to hearing more of your feedback in the future :thumbup2:


I've also been thinking of replacing the heavy plywood panels in the DeLorean. I have two options I'm toying with.

1. Cut foam for the core and face with a layer or two of fiberglass.

2. Or use a honeycomb core and face it with fiberglass.
https://www.acpsales.com/Core-Materials-and-Foam.html

I think they already have a honeycomb core already faced. That stuff was used with experimental aircraft construction and is way stronger than you would need but very pricey.

Thanks for the material ideas!

I have seen some of the honeycomb reinforced material before but it was a small custom formed part and was pretty expensive. I'll keep looking because there may be some DIY guides for making a cored material like this, for other projects. I like the fiberglass composite option too and I'll investigate the material a little further as well. Initally, I was considering some solid materials (see below) that could be easily machined at a local shop I've used before, Altec Plastics (http://www.altecplastics.com/). I also have considered doing my own carbon fiber parts but the best build method requires heat and pressure and the closest autoclave to me can only handle parts that are 12"x12".

Material concepts
Derlin (http://www.mcmaster.com/#delrin-(made-with-acetal-resin)/=yypjoj)
Rigid HDPE Polyethylene Marine Grade Sheet (http://www.mcmaster.com/#9785t262/=yypkhs)
Easy-to-Machine ABS Shapes (http://www.mcmaster.com/mv1441916932/#8586k511/=yyovxf)

Domi
09-16-2015, 03:27 PM
Good luck on your restoration project, please keep us update :thumbup2:

silverhair01
09-17-2015, 09:11 AM
Are people still regularly adding dynamat? Seemed to me like the general consensus was that it might not be worth the hassle of application and added weight given the minimal benefits people have reported. I don't own a D so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Looks like a fun project. Best of luck. I look forward to the pics.

MSpieler
09-17-2015, 04:43 PM
Are people still regularly adding dynamat? Seemed to me like the general consensus was that it might not be worth the hassle of application and added weight given the minimal benefits people have reported.

To my knowledge I haven't heard any issues with Dynamats. Was there any specific form thread that discussed the pro's and cons of insulation? I would greatly appreciate the knowledge! Thanks :thumbup:

I will add, I was inspired to use Dynamats on the chassis itself, after seeing Jay Leno's restoration of the 1966 Lotus Elan, which has a similar double-Y configuration (See Video). Has anyone else used the Dynamat in a similar way?

Also will take some pictures of my chassis tonight to show what kind of rust I'm dealing with. If you have an opinion on how I should repair the chassis, based on the damage, please let me know.

Thanks again everyone for the feedback!


https://youtu.be/3rfQyWbmcdY?t=1m41s

silverhair01
09-17-2015, 05:59 PM
From the threads I've seen, it seemed as though most think it did help with some cabin noise, but not anywhere near as much as they had hoped. Some were having trouble with getting the seats to slide because of the mat thickness but I think they got that resolved. Old thread to reference is here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9700-How-many-dynamat-do-I-need&highlight=dynamat.

Henrik
09-18-2015, 02:40 PM
An engine swap alone is usually about 6 months to a 1 year by itself if you're working on it a lot.

Hi Mike,
I wanted to emphasize Nick's point about the lead-time. My D is currently undergoing a swap to a turbo VR6 by SEO Motorsports and the swap piece alone is a 6 month project, so that would exclude the prep work I did myself beforehand which took about another 6-12 months.

Read all about the project here:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12356-Conversion-project-Turbo-VR6-manual-transmission

Henrik
#1283

MSpieler
09-18-2015, 03:29 PM
I wanted to emphasize Nick's point about the lead-time.
Hey Henrik,
Thank you for your attention and concern! I'm incredibly excited and inspired by the progress you and SEO have made on your project.

I agree with both You and Nick that I must be realistic with my schedule and not rush work or sacrifice quality to hit a deadline. My only reason for putting a time frame on the project is so that I can hold myself accountable for the work I am doing and so I don't lose my my enthusiasm. I look forward to your feedback as the project continues :thumbup2:


Update - Chassis Rust

Attached are some images that demonstrate the extent of the rust. The worst part of the car looks to be on the front driver side, near the gas tank. I won't know the extent of the damage until I get in there with some tools and cleaner but, if you have seen this damage before, let me know what you would do!

Thanks!

36887368883688936890

Henrik
09-18-2015, 04:17 PM
Hi again Mike,
Picture #2 looks like brake fluid leakage to me - a right of passage for all D owners. Here is a thread about that:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10399-Looking-for-thread-re-brake-fluid-leak

And here is a thread about Dynamat:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3715-Sound-proofing-for-the-interior
Truth be told I never noticed any difference in sound deadening at all, but I did a complete overhaul of my interior so it was one of those "while I'm in there". My guess is that Dynamat is more effective on sheet metal, but who knows, maybe other D owners have a different experience.

Henrik
#1283

MSpieler
09-18-2015, 05:40 PM
Hi again Mike,
Picture #2 looks like brake fluid leakage to me - a right of passage for all D owners. Here is a thread about that:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10399-Looking-for-thread-re-brake-fluid-leak

Awesome Thread, thanks Henrik! :cool:


And here is a thread about Dynamat:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3715-Sound-proofing-for-the-interior
Truth be told I never noticed any difference in sound deadening at all, but I did a complete overhaul of my interior so it was one of those "while I'm in there". My guess is that Dynamat is more effective on sheet metal, but who knows, maybe other D owners have a different experience.


Given the conversation on this thread and some of the other feedback I've been getting, I'll probably stay away from Dynamat and focus on using Dynaliner/Dynapad on large larger thicker sections such as the transmission insulation pad on the rear deck. I've also seen some local hot rods that used polyurea based coatings in their trunks and firewalls to reduce road noise but I'm not completely sold on the idea. Certainly something to investigate in the future.

Shuttleman
09-18-2015, 07:27 PM
Make sure there is no corrosion inside the box section.
3689336894ATTACH=CONFIG]36895[/ATTACH]

MSpieler
09-18-2015, 07:54 PM
Make sure there is no corrosion inside the box section.

That looks like a complete nightmare! I'll be sure to check inside, thanks for the advice Shuttleman!