Will the DeLorean become the next Split-Window Bus?

[Timebender]

Here's my question - and this may have been covered in another thread, but here goes.

I love my DeLorean, but have the chance to sell it, and if we did I could make a nice profit on it, and then use that to pay off some credit cards, or invest in a park model RV that we could have on our land and eventually rent out for extra income.

But I love my DeLorean and it took me forever what seems like to get one.

So I don't know if I should sell it (we have other means to get cash for the park model home or pay off debt), as I made the mistake of selling my 1963 23 Window VW Bus for a good profit years and years ago - way before they became $120,000+ collectible vehicles. Mine was one of only 20 1963 23 window busses in the world that were running and registered.

I bought that for $6,000, did some work to get it running well and safely, replaced parts, rubber, and it was about 50% restored but a nice daily driver. And then I decided to sell it to pay off some debt (my work is on/off as a designer), and sold it for $23k, which wasn't bad. Had I put another $15k into it I could have sold it for around $75k, and that was only 10 years ago give or take. Had I known then what I know now, and held onto it, I could get $120,000 or more easily.

So here I am with the DeLorean wondering the same thing.

Easy money now, or hold onto it as the numbers are dwindling, and maybe in 10 years it'll be worth $50k, $75k or more as BTTF keeps celebrating anniversaries, and foreign buyers like Japan suddenly become DeLorean crazy.

Thoughts?

[SIMid]

Just guessing here, but with the current stock of spare parts, enough to build "new " DeLoreans, I don't think the value will increase dramatically.

They will be worth more in the long run, but by how much is undetermined. Also to take into account the demand for them will also dictate the price. If owners are smart enough and say, well, DeLoreans in average condition are now worth $25K compared to $18K, then it will push all prices upwards.

As for the Combi you mentioned and several other classic cars like the Ferrari Dino and Countach have all gone ballistic, possibly around 400+% in the past 5 years.

I think they will be worth something, they have already hit rock bottom so prices should rise. By how fast will only be determined as I have said before, demand and supply.

[16949]

I believe that the market for these is just coming into it's own financially. As people that grew up with BTTF (like myself) have kids moving out and we get some discretionary savings, there will be more and more people able to afford *and want* these cars. The nostalgia group is just starting to have the assets to purchase these cars. That being said, it's countered by the DMC new builds, even if they can only build 500 more, it doesn't help resale values. On the other hand, we're down somewhere around 6000 cars and every month I'm sure that shrinks.
Ultimately, it's supply and demand and so as long as new builds don't flood the market, then we, the sellers, can control the pricing, by not selling for say 15k. Circumstances sometimes require otherwise, but the more that buy-and-hold'ers become owners, the better the market price. There was probably a 5% BTTF day premium, but it also brought a lot of awareness to people that may now want to buy them.

I think the excellent condition ones will fare far better than the rest. But if you hold it long enough, it will be worth money.

If you think you'll pay off cc debt with the funds, and then buy another delorean down the road, then don't go that route. It will be hard than you think to make that happen. If you don't care if you never drive it again, then it just depends on the cc interest rate and the other opportunity costs you will forego by holding on to it.

You make money when you buy, not when you sell. If you bought cheap enough and don't have much money in it, then you will make money. If you don't love it, then sell it and get your money's worth out of it. Otherwise, I think most will be worth 50k in 10 years. If you have 25k in it now, that's a 7.2% rate of return in 10 years.

[mr_maxime]

I was told last weekend by a shop that it wouldnt go up much because it's not a high demand car especially with it being powered by the PRV. I somewhat disagree with him, it's still a really unique car and engine swaps seem to be fairly common among the options of upgrading the PRV. Even with newly built cars, they arent original cars and probably wont affect the value of the original much.

As long as it ends up going up in value more than the interest I paid for the car, Ill be happy.

[Soundkillr]

I was told last weekend by a shop that it wouldnt go up much because it's not a high demand car especially with it being powered by the PRV. I somewhat disagree with him, it's still a really unique car and engine swaps seem to be fairly common among the options of upgrading the PRV. Even with newly built cars, they arent original cars and probably wont affect the value of the original much.

As long as it ends up going up in value more than the interest I paid for the car, Ill be happy.

The guy at the shop was just wrong. There are MANY cars out there (not even a low build amount) that are both slow, and would have never been considered a collectible car, that are now worth BIG money. A perfect case in point is the vw bus. It was economical, very large build numbers, shaped like a brick, slow as hell, and suddenly became very rare, and very sought after. Who would have EVER guessed people would pay 6 figures for a BUS of all things that cost what 3k new?
Weird things happen. I know the Delorean was never fast, but I think that will have little effect on our overall collectibility. I think one day, and sooner than later, these cars are gonna take off in value. They have had a very steady climb over the last few years, and it's only a matter of time for it to take off...

[mr_maxime]

I told him I thought he was wrong. He was basing it off of other british built cars. My personal car probably wont be a big ticket one because it isnt stock. Oct 21, 2015 may have passed, but that doesnt change how iconic the car is.

[Dangermouse]

The guy at the shop was just wrong. There are MANY cars out there (not even a low build amount) that are both slow, and would have never been considered a collectible car, that are now worth BIG money. A perfect case in point is the vw bus. It was economical, very large build numbers, shaped like a brick, slow as hell, and suddenly became very rare, and very sought after. Who would have EVER guessed people would pay 6 figures for a BUS of all things that cost what 3k new?
Weird things happen. I know the Delorean was never fast, but I think that will have little effect on our overall collectibility. I think one day, and sooner than later, these cars are gonna take off in value. They have had a very steady climb over the last few years, and it's only a matter of time for it to take off...

I will respectfully disagree with Ben here.

The average sales price on ebay for cars has been about 20k over the past 18 months/39 sales (from collectorcarpricetracker.com) I don't see a gradual rise, even allowing for a BTTF spike. Of course this is just ebay sales and not Craigslist, or forum, or whatever, but it is one verified sample pool

I just can't see it taking off in price. 10/21 was it's big chance to do so and that didn't particularly materialize, and I would think that anyone who was close to owning one in 2014/15, and a BTTF fan, would have made it happen through loans financing etc. i time for the "big day". Cars being sold over the next 6 to 9 months will struggle to find a buyer, imho. Specifically talking about good condition drivers, not budget priced project cars or top end restorations.




I was told last weekend by a shop that it wouldnt go up much because it's not a high demand car especially with it being powered by the PRV. I somewhat disagree with him, it's still a really unique car and engine swaps seem to be fairly common among the options of upgrading the PRV. Even with newly built cars, they arent original cars and probably wont affect the value of the original much.

As long as it ends up going up in value more than the interest I paid for the car, Ill be happy.

I wouldn't worry about that last one too much. Almost certainly you will have paid out more in maintenance/repairs etc on top o the purchase price, than you will ever get back when you sell it.

[Soundkillr]

I never go by ebay pricing. Especially with a delorean. My past experience has been, several sellers with deloreans, don't know what they have, and the ad reflects that. Poor photos, poor information, and in most cases, a poorly kept car. Also buying a car sight unseen plays into effect. Case in point, viper searches. I can always buy a viper cheaper on eBay, because buyers are afraid to put a top bid on a car they can't see. I have a spend limit, of what I will spend on a car sight unseen. After that amount I am out. That effects any marque I think.
How about Houston cars? When I made my comment, prices are going up, I based it on Houston cars, as well as used cars posted here. I have seen several at around a 25k mark sell here, and some as quickly as a weekend. Years ago it would have taken a 17k car to move like that. Houston's consignment cars (in all fairness) are probably nicer than most cars on eBay, and usually bring mid 20s to 30s.
Now in all fairness to DM, I don't have exact figures, just ballpark numbers I have shoved into my head, but the prices are climbing.
That said, I also base my assumptions on the trends of simple cars, that are now starting to bring bigger money. An example of that, are several old school Japanese cars. These cars are being snapped up by people left and right. Back when I was a kid, people would laugh at a first gen celica and go straight for a mustang. Now people are passing a mustang and grabbing the celica. 15 years ago, a clean 1st gen could bring 7k, 10 years ago 10k, and 5 years ago 15k. Just heard one sell a few months ago for right at 20k. Weird stuff going on out there.

[Michael]

Ebay is where people go to find the lowest price DeLoreans. Try factoring in the sales from the vendors like Tony, Dave and Stephen and you will have the upper end of the spectrum(and the upper end of quality). Going on ebay sales alone is like going in Barret Jackson sales alone. You will not get a true median unless you factor in all major sales. Ebay is a big part of that but not enough to tell the whole story.

[Dangermouse]

As we often say round here, it's the sale price, not the asking price, that matters. Sure, hemmings/DMCx have a higher asking price, but do they get that price?

That's why I used ebay numbers as they are published sales numbers. If DMCx wish to add their sales numbers to the discussion, that would be great ;). Same with cars listed here - did they get their asking price?

Don't get me wrong, we, as owners, should do everything in our power to encourage the values to go up, and not knock sellers who stretch the envelope (sorry future owners).

As Ben says, in my head, the average asking price has gone up a good ten grand over the past year and hopefully that will at least plateau, but I don't see anything that will trigger the cars going 6 figures.

[louielouie2000]

Comparing the DeLorean with the split-window bus is a bit of a misnomer, IMO. The split-window bus was the symbol of a generation- a vehicle absolutely beloved by all. It was cheerful, practical, versatile, easy to work on, and utterly nailed it's intended purpose. By contrast, the DeLorean is a bit more of an anachronism- it pretty much failed to be the car it set out to be from a cost, performance, comfort, safety, practicality, and reliability standpoint. By & large, the generation which the car was designed to please completely eschewed it. Has that stopped other cars from turning big in the past? Absolutely not- just look at the Tucker. The thing is, they made too many DeLoreans, and too many have survived. The DeLorean in this regard has much more in common with the Edsel- a mass-produced car that was designed as a status symbol for a generation which utterly missed it's mark.

This points to the one thing which I think really hampers the DeLorean's appreciation potential currently- a generational divide. Folks who are Gen X & Gen Y aged LOVE the car. Those who are of the Baby Boom generation and previous ones (as a whole) still have a very negative connotation of the car, company, and man, though. They were around for the lead-up to the launch of the car, remember it's growing pains, it's shortcomings, and JZD's high profile drug trafficking arrest. Many folks of this (and previous) generation find the whole thing to be offensive. It left a negative taste in their mouths that 3 decades has not erased. Jay Leno is a perfect example of how many people of his generation feel about the subject.

The hottest priced classic vehicles on the market right now are from the 1960s & early 1970s- these are the cars of the Baby Boom generation. Baby Boomers are the ones who currently have the money & time to devote to the classic car hobby at this moment. Hence why in some ways, the DeLorean has remained relatively repressed in value. Once these folks begin to age out of the hobby & Gen Xers start to take over the mantle, we might begin to see some real changes. Right now, the only real value creep I'm seeing for the marque is simply the rise of inflation & the fact that extremely poor condition cars have largely been removed from the buying pool.

[Michael]

Not once did I say asking price. I said sales figures.

[Ron]

Comparing the DeLorean with the split-window bus is a bit of a misnomer, IMO. The split-window bus was the symbol of a generation- a vehicle absolutely beloved by all.
...

I don't know Louie, I'm pretty much with you on everything, except the above-
In short, I would say there are A LOT of people now and then who would not be caught dead in any VW Bus, due to drug use/hippie/etc association(s) with many of their drivers. Not quite as bad if the association is linked to a relatively little known vehicle's maker ;).

[OverlandMan]

This points to the one thing which I think really hampers the DeLorean's appreciation potential currently- a generational divide. Folks who are Gen X & Gen Y aged LOVE the car. Those who are of the Baby Boom generation and previous ones (as a whole) still have a very negative connotation of the car, company, and man, though. They were around for the lead-up to the launch of the car, remember it's growing pains, it's shortcomings, and JZD's high profile drug trafficking arrest. Many folks of this (and previous) generation find the whole thing to be offensive. It left a negative taste in their mouths that 3 decades has not erased. Jay Leno is a perfect example of how many people of his generation feel about the subject.

The hottest priced classic vehicles on the market right now are from the 1960s & early 1970s- these are the cars of the Baby Boom generation. Baby Boomers are the ones who currently have the money & time to devote to the classic car hobby at this moment. Hence why in some ways, the DeLorean has remained relatively repressed in value. Once these folks begin to age out of the hobby & Gen Xers start to take over the mantle, we might begin to see some real changes. Right now, the only real value creep I'm seeing for the marque is simply the rise of inflation & the fact that extremely poor condition cars have largely been removed from the buying pool.

Some good stuff here but if we're talking about appreciation in the future and not the past or present, you have to consider that in <20 years the Baby Boomers will all be gone and the Gen Xers & Yers will be throwing down the big bucks in the collector car industry. To some degree that is already happening.

So if your logic applies, and I think it does to a degree with DeLorean specifically, the point will be moot when the Baby Boomers are gone. I do think certain high-end exotic cars targeted for the Baby Boomers when new (ie: Countach, Testarossa, 959) were also the same cars we (Gen Xers & Yers) had hanging on their walls as posters when we were kids. The DeLorean will likely never touch the values of those cars but I see no reason why it won't continue to appreciate at a moderate rate over the next two decades.

Past 20 years, we'll just have to see what the millennials and their successors think about the DeLorean. They may brush it of as junk or put it on a pedestal.

[sdg3205]

Hang on to it. Worst case scenario is prices remain steady and you remain happy with your car. If you want to pay off some debt, make the car work for you. It's a great way to subsidize and offset the cost of ownership. I earn well over $1,000 a year in selective rentals, which more than offsets gas, maintenance, upgrades and insurance (I put on less than 1,500 mi a year and this includes the cost of an additional liability policy). It can be a lot of fun.

Just a thought.

[DMCVegas]

I'll second what Louie said, and add a couple of things:

First, DeLoreans are NOT rare cars relatively speaking. I mean, hell, Hyundai has released models with the same production numbers as DMC built, and those aren't valuable. Comparing it to super-low production vehicles that also start demanding specialized mechanics and rare sought-after parts is just not fair. I mean, similar to the DMC-12 there have been other low-production, semi-obscure, luxury vehicles. Lincoln comes to mind with their truck division. But since those are really just rebadged F150s, the definitely fall into that same boat as the DMC-12 as being simple vehicles with easy to source off the shelf parts that almost any mechanic can work on.

Mechanical exclusivity goes a long way to boost a car's value, and that is something that we're kinda missing here. Though, yes, we must also shed allot of the car's negative past. I too believe that a significant chunk of that will die with the baby boomers. But for an ever more fair comparison, what is another rear-engined V6 with similar fuel systems whose value has spiked recently?

Porsche.

Vintage air-cooled Porsches have had their values shoot up tremendously in the past few years. That is something that we should really take a look at to see what happened with Porsche that we can try and replicate with DeLoreans.

Of course one of the big things about Porsches have been their sports car qualities. Which is great! But I really do believe that to add to this, as well as to create some of that rarity, we need to divide up the marque into 3 distinct goups:


All Original Stock.
Customized.
Performance Modified.


Granted the Stock category has it's own sub categories of Normal cars and Concourse. And of course we have Customized with it's own 3 main subcategories of Painted, Appearance Modifications, and BTTF Conversions. Then of course we have the Performance Modified. This would entail everything from upgraded systems for braking, suspension, cooling, & electrical, and then move on to mechanical. Here we can go for simple things like Performance cams w/shaved heads, modified fuel delivery systems, up to the ultimate of complete engine swaps.

Now there is a method to this madness, so please, hear me out. With this method of subdividing car categories, we can artificially change the apparent rarity of vehicles. We can't change production numbers, but we *can* change availability and exclusivity numbers! Example: Lets say you happen to own a concourse car. Right now your selling point is, "Hey, it's a DeLorean! They only made like 8,500 of these things to begin with, and now there's like only 6,000 or so left!"* With this applied method that I am proposing, the sales pitch totally changes to: "Say, this is a concourse DeLorean! With an average of say only 5 cars a year that compete in that competition, you're looking at only one of 150 worthy cars from the past 30 years!" If you're selling a former winner, now that number has shrank down even further to only 30 cars. And none of this is lying.

That takes care of the exclusivity portion of these cars. The next thing is that the modified cars can strike out on our own and bring recognition to the marque. Get a few of us out there with modified cars hanging out on the drag strip where reputations are made, and we'll create one helluva buzz about just how much our cars have now changed. Same if we have the support of people like Josh making parts, and we start autocrossing and holding our own with modern cars while leaving our vintage peers in the dust. And we know for a stone cold hard FACT that this kind of subdivision works! Just look at NADA and how DMCH cars can somehow suddenly enjoy a 30% percentage premium over existing prices simply because Houston did the work!

If we're going to expand the marque, we've got to do it on our own instead of constantly trying to ride the coattails of other cars' reputations.



*based upon outdated numbers that the DOA once pulled out of their asses, yet the media still touts because copy/pasting Wikipedia "facts" is as far as modern day journalism goes to research anything.

[mr_maxime]

Past 20 years, we'll just have to see what the millennials and their successors think about the DeLorean. They may brush it of as junk or put it on a pedestal.

There seem to be a good bit that like it and not many have a negative connotation with it. 90s japanese car seem to be way more popular though.

[16949]

I agree that ebay is not a good measuring stick. I "won" 2 auctions in the past 3 months but didn't meet reserve price. They were relisted multiple times thereafter and either sold for much more or sold offline. If you looked at completed listings, you'd see the same car being sold 5 times, but reserve not met, still green and completed. I bought offline for 8k more than the auctions that I won, but 3k less than it was listed for elsewhere..

If you think "there's something more"out there, there isn't. It's like someone going out with someone really rich or really good looking. They start to think that is a dime a dozen. It's not. I say hang to the delorean unless you need a kidney or if you never want to drive a delorean again. fwiw.

[Dangermouse]

I would like to formally apologize for my misguided ramblings above.

Having perused the 5 fine vehicles cars currently on offer at BHCC, (http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/inventory.htm) I was clearly off by at least $10k.

[louielouie2000]

I will respectfully disagree with Ben here.

The average sales price on ebay for cars has been about 20k over the past 18 months/39 sales (from collectorcarpricetracker.com) I don't see a gradual rise, even allowing for a BTTF spike. Of course this is just ebay sales and not Craigslist, or forum, or whatever, but it is one verified sample pool

I just can't see it taking off in price. 10/21 was it's big chance to do so and that didn't particularly materialize, and I would think that anyone who was close to owning one in 2014/15, and a BTTF fan, would have made it happen through loans financing etc. i time for the "big day". Cars being sold over the next 6 to 9 months will struggle to find a buyer, imho. Specifically talking about good condition drivers, not budget priced project cars or top end restorations.

I wouldn't worry about that last one too much. Almost certainly you will have paid out more in maintenance/repairs etc on top o the purchase price, than you will ever get back when you sell it.

I've conversed with several recent buyers over the past few months. It seems that you are indeed right, the actual sale prices folks are paying certainly don't match up to the bloated asking prices we've been seeing for years. REALLY nice examples are still trading hands for the teens and 20s. There is definitely a push by DeLorean owners & sellers to legitimize the car by setting optimistically inflated asking prices. This might equal a few high profile sales for uneducated buyers, but I get the impression that the cars are still largely being exchanged for reasonable sums.


Mechanical exclusivity goes a long way to boost a car's value, and that is something that we're kinda missing here. Though, yes, we must also shed allot of the car's negative past. I too believe that a significant chunk of that will die with the baby boomers. But for an ever more fair comparison, what is another rear-engined V6 with similar fuel systems whose value has spiked recently?

Porsche.

Vintage air-cooled Porsches have had their values shoot up tremendously in the past few years. That is something that we should really take a look at to see what happened with Porsche that we can try and replicate with DeLoreans.

Of course one of the big things about Porsches have been their sports car qualities.

The whole air cooled Porsche thing has been quite remarkable, hasn't it? Cars that were trading hands for $10k a decade ago are suddenly $100k cars. I still think there will be a correction, to a degree. However, there are other factors working behind this sudden value surge. First, these were the last Porsches to be hand assembled and built to a standard- not a price. Collectors have suddenly realized there will be no more Porsches built like that. They are mass produced automobiles now, and profit per car is paramount to quality construction.

Secondly, Porsche is not just a prestige marque- it has a storied racing history. If you look at some of the vehicles that have exploded in value over the past decade, prestige marques with racing histories are where the biggest gains are happening. Look at what vintage Alfa Romeos are commanding now. Even the grand touring Montreal which was worth maybe $15k a decade ago is now a hot commodity. The lowly Ferrari 308 is red hot now. Obviously the DeLorean has no racing history, and it's really not a prestige marque, either.

Lastly, appreciation for cars like air-cooled Porsches, vintage Alfas, and 70s-80s era Ferraris are partially driven by the fact these marques have been continually building aspirational cars for many decades. These marques have bridged generations & remained relevant because of that.


Some good stuff here but if we're talking about appreciation in the future and not the past or present, you have to consider that in <20 years the Baby Boomers will all be gone and the Gen Xers & Yers will be throwing down the big bucks in the collector car industry. To some degree that is already happening.

So if your logic applies, and I think it does to a degree with DeLorean specifically, the point will be moot when the Baby Boomers are gone. I do think certain high-end exotic cars targeted for the Baby Boomers when new (ie: Countach, Testarossa, 959) were also the same cars we (Gen Xers & Yers) had hanging on their walls as posters when we were kids. The DeLorean will likely never touch the values of those cars but I see no reason why it won't continue to appreciate at a moderate rate over the next two decades.

Past 20 years, we'll just have to see what the millennials and their successors think about the DeLorean. They may brush it of as junk or put it on a pedestal.

I definitely agree- the asking price push we are seeing these days is because Gen Xers have established careers and are now influencing the car hobby with their interests. I think Gen X is probably where the majority of fans for the DeLorean lie. Perhaps as Gen X folks continue to age & build wealth, cars like the DeLorean will appreciate in a more dramatic way.


There seem to be a good bit that like it and not many have a negative connotation with it. 90s japanese car seem to be way more popular though.

This has been one of the most interesting shifts in the car hobby to me. My guess is that video games like Gran Turismo and movies like Fast & Furious have really pushed these cars into another realm I honestly could not have foreseen.

Many folks around here beat their chests that Back to the Future will be the savior for DeLorean values. The movies are 3 decades old now- I think their influence is bound to have peaked at this point. Like Dermot pointed out, the whole 10/21/2015 thing would be the time when all of this potential frenzy could have come to a head. Yet there are still a cocktail of DeLoreans across the internet which have been sitting on the market with very reasonable asking prices in the upper teens and low/mid 20s.

[David T]

Car owners lamenting that the prices are too low is a common theme among ALL owners of classic cars, not just Deloreans. Once they buy in they are upset their investment is not going up or not going up fast enough. On the flip side new, potential owners decry how expensive it is to GET a car. Values will go up as it gets more and more expensive to acquire the parts necessary to fix up or maintain the cars. Having a large cheap inventory of parts is both a blessing AND a curse. When you have to buy a Delorean for (just an example) $15K and spend $25K on parts to make it a $30K car you will see less and less cars in #1 condition and the few that are will shoot up in value bringing all of the others up too.

[mr_maxime]

Honestly I think 10/21/15 is just a date, if you're really a fan of the movies and/or the car as a result, not buying one before then really won't matter. It's not like any fan is going to think "well, its past the date Marty goes to the future, I guess I don't care about the movies anymore"

[DMCVegas]

The whole air cooled Porsche thing has been quite remarkable, hasn't it? Cars that were trading hands for $10k a decade ago are suddenly $100k cars. I still think there will be a correction, to a degree. However, there are other factors working behind this sudden value surge. First, these were the last Porsches to be hand assembled and built to a standard- not a price. Collectors have suddenly realized there will be no more Porsches built like that. They are mass produced automobiles now, and profit per car is paramount to quality construction.

Secondly, Porsche is not just a prestige marque- it has a storied racing history. If you look at some of the vehicles that have exploded in value over the past decade, prestige marques with racing histories are where the biggest gains are happening. Look at what vintage Alfa Romeos are commanding now. Even the grand touring Montreal which was worth maybe $15k a decade ago is now a hot commodity. The lowly Ferrari 308 is red hot now. Obviously the DeLorean has no racing history, and it's really not a prestige marque, either.

Lastly, appreciation for cars like air-cooled Porsches, vintage Alfas, and 70s-80s era Ferraris are partially driven by the fact these marques have been continually building aspirational cars for many decades. These marques have bridged generations & remained relevant because of that.

The values of the air cooled Porsches is absolutely insane! My wife was a fan of this show called Saving Grace where the main character drives a 911. She liked the car and thought it would be neat to own one. So then I started looking up prices and...
:jawdrop:

The prices of the vehicles are positively insane! I think that there are indeed allot of reasons for it, especially the ones that you've mentioned. But what I honestly believe the biggest reason of all has been is hungry investors. I mean personally, I think that cars are absolutely terrible investments. But you have some misguiding advice pairing up with a bit of selfishness in wanting a toy, and classic cars are a perfect match. But I've noticed a seriously negative trend with classic car investment, and that is these babyboomer investors are just going around like locusts destroying crops with what they choose to invest in.

We saw a slight touch of it with the late 50's cars, and then what that dried up of course, as they moved into the 60's the muscle cars became the big thing. But I remember a few years ago watching one of those Barrett-Jackson auctions where the commentators were just completely blown away at the fact that clone cars were not only starting to reach the same asking prices as the vehicles they imitated, but then they suddenly started commanding MORE than the all original cars. The reasoning was simple, of course: You can enjoy a clone car completely guilt free. But it's taboo to drive an original vehicle to increase mileage, let even risking a chance for it to be scratched! So that happened. Then as the most rarest cars are gobbled up, they moved on...

As the investors wanted pristine original cars and even over-restored ones that were even more flawless than what came off of the original production lines, we all got priced out and suddenly we went with restomods to just rework the inteiors all together. Now we're getting priced out of that too. So the hobbyists moved on to cherishing patina. Then as people then shifted more and more towards patina, especially the paint on the outside, and moreso when rat rods flaunted it in the face of the rich jerk car buying "investors", we suddenly now see derelict cars being restored for their weathered paint and exterior trim, while getting clean chassis, crate engines, and overrestored interiors. Why? Because the investors consistantly want to make things unobtainable in order to make it valuable.



I definitely agree- the asking price push we are seeing these days is because Gen Xers have established careers and are now influencing the car hobby with their interests. I think Gen X is probably where the majority of fans for the DeLorean lie. Perhaps as Gen X folks continue to age & build wealth, cars like the DeLorean will appreciate in a more dramatic way.

This has been one of the most interesting shifts in the car hobby to me. My guess is that video games like Gran Turismo and movies like Fast & Furious have really pushed these cars into another realm I honestly could not have foreseen.

Many folks around here beat their chests that Back to the Future will be the savior for DeLorean values. The movies are 3 decades old now- I think their influence is bound to have peaked at this point. Like Dermot pointed out, the whole 10/21/2015 thing would be the time when all of this potential frenzy could have come to a head. Yet there are still a cocktail of DeLoreans across the internet which have been sitting on the market with very reasonable asking prices in the upper teens and low/mid 20s.

I don't know how Gen X will take things. Certainly the past has shown us that as older generations die off, along with them is taken their particular passions for specific cars. Duesenbergs are the perfect examples of how formerly multi-million dollar cars have lost so much of their values.

It'll be much more slow going for those 1960's cars on forward thanks to modern visual media that keeps us still exposed to them, but their values will drop too.

The biggest conundrum here is should prices be raised or not? If we want to raise prices, we need a new vehicle to keep the DMC-12 relevant. Who here HASN'T run into someone that's never seen BTTF? But if we also raise prices too high, well, shit. We're also gonna lock a number of good people out of the community here entirely.

[louielouie2000]

Honestly I think 10/21/15 is just a date, if you're really a fan of the movies and/or the car as a result, not buying one before then really won't matter. It's not like any fan is going to think "well, its past the date Marty goes to the future, I guess I don't care about the movies anymore"

Of course. What I was inferring is that there has been no run on the cars surrounding this event (not that I ever expected there to be one in the first place). The same DeLoreans are for sale right now that were for sale a month ago. Asking prices for those cars seemingly haven't budged in one direction or another. The massive amount of publicity hasn't equated to anything substantive as of yet.


But if we also raise prices too high, well, shit. We're also gonna lock a number of good people out of the community here entirely.

I've been saying this for 15 years. I rather enjoy the DeLorean being valued exactly where it's at. It's worth just enough so that we aren't losing cars to the scrapyard, but it's not worth so much that speculators and investors have priced out the true enthusiasts. I really think the DeLorean is in the sweet spot in this regard. Folks can buy their dream car, afford to maintain and insure it, and don't have to worry about it being worth so much that they never drive it.

While we're comparing the DeLorean to other cars, it's most interesting to me that no one ever compares the DeLorean to the car it's most closely related to: the Lotus Esprit. Lotus is a prestige marque that has been around for 6 decades, has a storied motorsports history, and there were roughly the same number of Esprits built as DeLoreans. Lotus reengineered and productionized the DeLorean. They share similar dimensions and backbone frames. Esprits of the DeLorean era perform comparably, too. Despite all of that, the DeLorean seems to outpace most Esprits in the value department, with the exception of the later V8 Esprits. The same could be said of Porsche 928s & Corvettes of the same era. Relative to their original asking prices, the DeLorean is outperforming them all. This tells me that DeLoreans are priced pretty much where they should be at the moment- and we even have the right to be proud of them.

[DMCVegas]

I've been saying this for 15 years. I rather enjoy the DeLorean being valued exactly where it's at. It's worth just enough so that we aren't losing cars to the scrapyard, but it's not worth so much that speculators and investors have priced out the true enthusiasts. I really think the DeLorean is in the sweet spot in this regard. Folks can buy their dream car, afford to maintain and insure it, and don't have to worry about it being worth so much that they never drive it.

Exactly! I'd love to one day really build up a nice little collection of cars (though with my tastes it would sure as hell be a weird one), but I would also make sure that I drive them and show them off. To me, and this is just my opinion, locking a car away to rot rather than enjoy is just a slower way of destroying it. And since no one ever gets to see it again, you might as well just send it over to the crusher now. Even melted down and made into nails or knives, the car's new purposed would be a whole lot more useful.

I believe it was a member over on one of the Ferrari boards that said something akin to, "Never driving a dream car in order to preserve it is no different than being in a relationship with someone really attractive where you insist to never have sex with them. Because you want to feel good that you were able to preserve them for their next relationship where someone else can get all the fun of screwing them."



While we're comparing the DeLorean to other cars, it's most interesting to me that no one ever compares the DeLorean to the car it's most closely related to: the Lotus Esprit. Lotus is a prestige marque that has been around for 6 decades, has a storied motorsports history, and there were roughly the same number of Esprits built as DeLoreans. Lotus reengineered and productionized the DeLorean. They share similar dimensions and backbone frames. Esprits of the DeLorean era perform comparably, too. Despite all of that, the DeLorean seems to outpace most Esprits in the value department, with the exception of the later V8 Esprits. The same could be said of Porsche 928s & Corvettes of the same era. Relative to their original asking prices, the DeLorean is outperforming them all. This tells me that DeLoreans are priced pretty much where they should be at the moment- and we even have the right to be proud of them.

I don't want to rag on the Esprit having never owned one directly, but my understanding is that they're not exactly the best of cars. The common excuse for that is, "They're built for performance, NOT reliability!" But I have read problems of randomly "winking" headlights in the rain from water pouring onto the relays, they're crampt for tall people, they're a total pain in the ass to work on, and as one person over on Jalopnik told me, their 4-banger engines don't have that steep of a torque curve, so they don't have lots of low-end torque. Steep driveway without a rolling start? You're not gonna have a good time. I don't know about anyone else, but my favorite type of performance car is the one that performs reliably.

I don't think that the Lotus comparison is 100% straight on, because I just always felt that the DMC-12 was a better built and engineered car than the Esprit. I actually got to park my own DeLorean next to an S2 one day in a mall parking lot, and did a comparison between the two. The fit and finish was better in some instances because you could tell the difference between mass American production versus European "File it until it fits" car building techniques. But holly hell was the interior poorly laid out! Just looking at things like the vents, spacing between the gear shift and the climate controls, the parking brake location, higher center console, the overbearing binnacle... It wasn't merely claustrophobic because of the size of the cockpit, but it looked anti-ergonomic to the point of being uncomfortable.

If by some odd chance that I had the cash in hand, and found an Esprit at a really good price, I'd buy one with the plans of ripping the engine out and dropping a 2.0L EcoBoost in. But otherwise, I'd really, really prefer an Eclat. Which on a side note, the Eclat's replacement, the Excel looks to have had it's rear-end taillight design reappropriated by JZD for the Firestar 500 mockup...

I've always felt that the Esprit S1 was a true Lotus, but then Lotus built the DMC-12 and the S2 was really more of a one-off of the DeLorean using new techniques learned from Bill Collins, Dick Brown, and of course JZD himself and the rest of the American engineering team. Beyond that, the most that the Esprit has in common with the DeLorean is probably a Hollywood movie connection that helps keep it's legacy alive to a great extent. Probably more so for Lotus since the DeLorean just has more striking looks that scream to get attention from everyone. Doesn't matter if you're a car person or not. You WILL see that brushed stainless, and ask just what that car is.

The DeLorean just stands out, and always will. For that alone, it will survive.