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16949
01-23-2016, 05:44 PM
Emptied the fuel tank upon purchase. Breathed on the fuel pump, had to replace that and now the boot needs replacing. I plan to just swap for the all in one, I didn't want to replace with the old style in the first place and now I have a bunch of variables that have been changed.

Meanwhile, I have to figure out what is causing it to run differently after 45 minutes. I am taking over repairs, where possible and I can plug stuff in so this is as good a place to start as any.

I took some pics of my fuse box. Ordering bitsyncs rpm relay. Probably need other things too?

Anyway, here's the Delorean porn:

3924339244392453924639247

Ryan S.
01-23-2016, 07:09 PM
Replace relays and fuses, if you haven't done so already.

DMC-81
01-23-2016, 07:36 PM
Hi there,

Dave McKeens RPM relay is a good upgrade, as is DMC's fuel pump module, although it's not a simple part change, as they recommend cleaning out the fuel tank before the installation. Looking at your relay compartment, ( nice porn by the way :) ) I can't tell how old your relays are, but they appear to have been changed at some point. I would suggest determining if you have any electrical issues (like the climate control fan speeds) before I would change them at this point. 45 minutes is a long time before the engine changes it's "tune", so perhaps it's an electrical issue, but it could be a number of other things. Regardless, when it comes time, I recommend the relay upgrade.

Can you describe how it runs differently ? Perhaps a video of the engine running, even pictures would help, especially wires/connections and vacuum hoses. That will help us diagnose what is wrong.

Do you have any history on the maintenance? It would be good to know if any tune up parts were done, and how recently.


Cheers,

Nicholas R
01-23-2016, 09:09 PM
In my experience, when the engine changed it's tune after running for a while it was one of 2 things. Either the ignition system (in my case it was the ignition coil), or what seems more likely is probably the lambda system (only applicable if you're running closed loop, which you likely are). When you first start up, everything is cold so you dont really get any response from the lambda system. After it runs for a bit, the O2 sensor heats up, warm up regulator comes up to temp, etc. lambda takes over fuel management. If there is something thats bad (remember O2 sensors are consumables) it may run right when you first start up and it's cold, but go to crap once its fully warmed up and running.

16949
01-23-2016, 11:03 PM
The boot is hacked to hold right now, and I have to keep fuel level under 1/2 tank to prevent leaking. So until that is fixed, I don't feel full confident troubleshooting as so much was adjusted in the initial fuel pump change. The problem was not immediate after the fuel pump change, but within 100-200 miles.

Right now it starts okay, although it needs to run for a few minutes or seems to want to peter out. I'm not sure that is unusual. Once it is warmed up a little, it driives fine for half an hour or so. I think the timeline is closer to 35 when the a/c is running, closer to 45 minutes if ac is not running but it is hard to be sure of those variables. Somewhere around the 40 minute mark, it will start to act like the fuel pump is failing, it wants to sputter out. If I press the clutch down, rev it higher before letting the clutch out, I can usually "limp" it along for a little while, but very slowly and with lots of "race me!" fanfare. That's the best scenario. Worst scenario is when it bucking bronco'd down the road before stalling out, when someone else was driving it and tried to just quickly disengage the clutch. If it sits for an hour, the 40 minute good driving "clock" resets. If it sits for only a few minutes, the 40 minute clock is maintained.

The only thing I notice is more frequent running of the fan in front and increased frequency of clicking noise from the fuse box as it gets closer to the time where it starts acting up.

I can drive it 40 minutes at a time, every time.

sdg3205
01-24-2016, 02:55 AM
My guess is coil too. I had the exact same thing. Coil reaches a certain temperature over time and stops producing enough spark. Car starts bucking like its running out of gas and eventually dies. A quick coil swap is nice and easy to do.

Nicholas R
01-24-2016, 03:10 AM
I chased a bad coil for years because of this. I could drive for a little while, but as soon as the engine was really heated up, it would do this thing where you the more gas you tried to give it, the more it bogged down. It was an automatic at the time so I couldn't do the clutch trick. Every time I tested the coil with a volt meter, it tested fine, because the car was usually cold when I tested it, so I never saw anything out of the ordinary. I assumed it had to be something else, so I changed cap, rotor, wires, plugs, fuel injectors, etc. first, with little change. The coil I had was some aftermarket coil from Hervey too so thinking it was (somewhat) newer, I thought it was okay. One day Patrick C had his original bosch coil with him that was still good, and I swapped it in for the hell of it. Made an immediate difference. I actually couldn't believe how quickly it made such a huge difference but it did. I think I ran with that coil up until I did the engine swap.

sdg3205
01-24-2016, 03:13 AM
+1 nick!

I even took my tank apart and stuck the damn spring in the pickup hose!

DMC-81
01-24-2016, 12:32 PM
Based on Nick and Dave's experience, and your description, I would replace the coil (101052) first then evaluate. Then at least the lambda relay (101071), if not the whole relay kit, and evaluate again.

I can see why you honed in on the relay compartment based on the clicking just before the event happens. I don't know if that is normal behavior with a failing coil/lambda system or not. Perhaps others can comment on that.

Speaking of ignition issues, here's another (non D) story. On my V8 Fiero project I had replaced literally everything in the engine bay, including rebuilding the ignition distributor/coil to an HEI version. There was one little resistor part in the distributor that I said to myself "ahh that still looks good". Then, in my second trial drive, the engine quit, and after 5 minutes, it restarted. I knew exactly what it was. :banghead: I drove the car straight home and I changed that $10 part. Problem solved.

I know how frustrating it can be to have a car not running right. Let us know how it goes.

mluder
01-24-2016, 05:20 PM
Bit of house keeping too...

Step 1: Remove Fuse box cover.
Step 2: Find a safe place to store it.
Step 3: Never put it back on.

The fuse box in these cars tend to run a little hot so most people get rid of the cover to let it breath a bit better. Of course your mileage may vary...

Cheers
Steven

16949
01-24-2016, 08:22 PM
Okay, i'll order an ignition coil. Is the original stock the way to go? I see the pertronix, etc available.

(All other things being equal, I'd like to stay original unless the original equipment is flawed.)

On another note: what is the fix for this? I'm guessing it involves taking the door apart? I'd like to see if I have any hieroglyphics some day but not a priority. I've been stuffing it back, but it seems to be coming more undone. Is is okay to lower and raise window without this in place? Maybe I can just restick and tweezer it into place..?

39311

sdg3205
01-24-2016, 08:37 PM
Just the upper door panel and then a nice big philips screw driver for the 8 or so screws holding that brace/guide/retainer in place.

Go stock coil.

DMC-81
01-24-2016, 08:48 PM
I have been very happy with Bosch parts, so I would stay with the original.

That part that's hanging is the inner drop glass seal (part 106063). Actually, I just replaced the same one (passenger side) last weekend as part of the window motor job. You have to take off the upper door trim, and then take off the black support bracket (108319) Edit: as Dave mentioned ^.
The seal just clips on to the bracket.

Here's a pic with the trim off...
39312

There's a video in this thread that shows how to remove the door trim:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7228-How-to-replace-Delorean-window-drop-glass

Cheers,

Nicholas R
01-25-2016, 02:55 AM
Go stock coil.

Agreed; they are surprisingly robust.

16949
01-28-2016, 01:18 AM
Although I am not happy with the replicar thing, I do have to give credit that DMCH shipped my order super fast, and everything was packaged well and labeled and all that. Very nicely done and professionally packaged. I like that each part had my name on it, it will be easier to keep track of parts that I've replaced versus other owners, in my paperwork files. I'm impressed with my order but otherwise still :disapprove:

The unboxing: I bought the coil and some random things like the brush for the rims, covers for the stupid vent holes so my ac doesn't end up cooling my elbow, a cover so I don't keep hitting the window switches, and the car cleaner box. I don't know if those liquids will be any good (isn't this NOS?) after decades, but I wanted the scrubbie and I didn't like not having the box from the original owner as part of my collection.. so if the cleaners actually work that will be cool.

This weekend I will figure out how to replace the coil. I will be so happy if this solves my issue.

The Ikea container bev holder hack also came. I don't know what these things were meant for, maybe to hang off railings? If it works I will have some extras to ROAK..

39389

Domi
01-31-2016, 06:13 PM
We are only 2 VIN away, I own 16951 ;)
It's funny to see you have the ASI radio and mine had the Craig.

16949
01-31-2016, 06:16 PM
Here's a link to a walk around I did
https://youtu.be/yhParO_kFYk

I need to splice together the one of replacing the ignition coil.

Unfortunately, I think the new ignition coil didn't fix the 40 minute issue. It was not as bad, but I think it still did it in an afterwards drive. So next step is to replace the rpm relay, remove the fuse box covers, and replace the fuel pump (again) with the all-in-one. Although if replacement boots are available, I may buy one and hold off on the all in one, since the fuel pump is new, the boot got cracked though and now it's rigged.

16949
01-31-2016, 06:28 PM
We are only 2 VIN away, I own 16951 ;)
It's funny to see you have the ASI radio and mine had the Craig.

That's weird, I thought the Espey Buyer's Guide says that all 83 models had the ASI. But I know with the consolidateds that they used whatever parts they had.

I have the skinny exhaust tips but I read there or somewhere that the late models got whatever tips were laying around.

Riley88
01-31-2016, 07:18 PM
Emptied the fuel tank upon purchase. Breathed on the fuel pump, had to replace that and now the boot needs replacing. I plan to just swap for the all in one, I didn't want to replace with the old style in the first place and now I have a bunch of variables that have been changed.

Meanwhile, I have to figure out what is causing it to run differently after 45 minutes. I am taking over repairs, where possible and I can plug stuff in so this is as good a place to start as any.

I took some pics of my fuse box. Ordering bitsyncs rpm relay. Probably need other things too?

Anyway, here's the Delorean porn:

3924339244392453924639247


the rpm relay is A MUST! Its awesome

Bitsyncmaster
01-31-2016, 07:20 PM
When we said to remove the fuse box cover, we meant the black plastic that shows the fuse numbers and only covers the fuses. I can see where you might have confused that we suggested the wooden cover over the whole relay compartment.

So you don't need to leave that wooden cover off. Just remove the little black plastic cover hiding the fuse block.

refugeefromcalif
01-31-2016, 07:34 PM
When we said to remove the fuse box cover, we meant the black plastic that shows the fuse numbers and only covers the fuses. I can see where you might have confused that we suggested the wooden cover over the whole relay compartment.

So you don't need to leave that wooden cover off. Just remove the little black plastic cover hiding the fuse block.

I've found that in Alabama, (in the summertime), I Have to leave that whole area uncovered to keep things cool enough. (DMCFL kept my fuse box cover last time they had it for service)... :shock:
Might just be my cars electrical issues though...

George

16949
01-31-2016, 07:44 PM
When we said to remove the fuse box cover, we meant the black plastic that shows the fuse numbers and only covers the fuses. I can see where you might have confused that we suggested the wooden cover over the whole relay compartment.

So you don't need to leave that wooden cover off. Just remove the little black plastic cover hiding the fuse block.

Yes, thank you, I did pick up that it was a cover inside, I just haven't gotten to it because I wanted to confirm that it was the black piece with the diagram

In the meantime, I left the wood off thinking it would help circulate air. I thought about it and it didn't do the 40 minute thing back when the wooden cover was off. It might have been coincidence but I wasn't sure. There were too many tweaks the first weeks which makes trouble shooting hard.

16949
01-31-2016, 07:52 PM
I've found that in Alabama, (in the summertime), I Have to leave that whole area uncovered to keep things cool enough. (DMCFL kept my fuse box cover last time they had it for service)... :shock:
Might just be my cars electrical issues though...

George

Your experience is good to know, I'm in Fla and I can't rule out the trapped heat in there causing a problem. I need to rule out the replaced fuel pump, but then my focus is on this fuse area.. Judging by the sounds I hear I feel like the 40 minute problem is stemming from something in there..

Bitsyncmaster
01-31-2016, 08:31 PM
I've found that in Alabama, (in the summertime), I Have to leave that whole area uncovered to keep things cool enough. (DMCFL kept my fuse box cover last time they had it for service)... :shock:
Might just be my cars electrical issues though...

George

Everything in there creates some heat. The RPM relay was the worst heat generator which is why that was my first item to redesign. A few people have created some fan and or vent holes in the wood cover.

aotmfilms
02-03-2016, 01:23 PM
Here's a link to a walk around I did
https://youtu.be/yhParO_kFYk

I need to splice together the one of replacing the ignition coil.

Unfortunately, I think the new ignition coil didn't fix the 40 minute issue. It was not as bad, but I think it still did it in an afterwards drive. So next step is to replace the rpm relay, remove the fuse box covers, and replace the fuel pump (again) with the all-in-one. Although if replacement boots are available, I may buy one and hold off on the all in one, since the fuel pump is new, the boot got cracked though and now it's rigged.

Just watched your video. Cool beans! For your seats you can do memory foam cushions and T-shirts over the seatbacks to save wear and tear on the covers until you can get them replaced. I do it so if people sit in my car and have something in their pockets it will go into the $50 dollar cushion instead of the $400 cover. (also if they are all sweaty it goes on the t-shirt and not on your leather, ewwww)

(I like seeing other people's DeLoreans)

--Doug

16949
03-22-2016, 04:09 PM
I apologize for how many times I say "clicking" in advance:
https://youtu.be/dYAu4R3l040

What is going on? I don't feel like this amount of clicking (and the (?blower?) fan not staying on) is not normal...

Gregadeth
03-22-2016, 04:31 PM
I apologize for how many times I say "clicking" in advance:
https://youtu.be/dYAu4R3l040

What is going on? I don't feel like this amount of clicking (and the (?blower?) fan not staying on) is not normal...The clicking is from your fan relays (the two relays on the bottom left of the compartment). Sounds like your relays are bad.

16949
03-22-2016, 04:45 PM
The clicking is from your fan relays (the two relays on the bottom left of the compartment). Sounds like your relays are bad.


Clear and simple, thank you. I'll add to my shopping list. It doesn't sound like that would contribute to the 40 minute issue, but might (?) contribute to why my ac isn't working again. (PO just fixed ac <1000 miles ago when I bought it 7 months ago).

Bitsyncmaster
03-22-2016, 05:09 PM
When your AC is switched on, that turns the compressor on which also turns the radiator cooling fans via the fan relay. There are two circuit breakers, one for the radiator fans and one for the blower which also would click if they are going open circuit (to much current draw).

If you run the AC without running the blower at a high speed, the AC will probably cycle (turn on and off) very quickly.

Your blower circuit breaker should be a 30 amp. breaker. Some early cars they used a 25 amp breaker and it would cause the blower to cycle.

If your AC is cycling that quickly, you may be low on refrigerant. The fan relay is normal to make a clicking sound when it turns the radiator fans on and off.

16949
03-22-2016, 05:21 PM
When your AC is switched on, that turns the compressor on which also turns the radiator cooling fans via the fan relay. There are two circuit breakers, one for the radiator fans and one for the blower which also would click if they are going open circuit (to much current draw).

If you run the AC without running the blower at a high speed, the AC will probably cycle (turn on and off) very quickly.

Your blower circuit breaker should be a 30 amp. breaker. Some early cars they used a 25 amp breaker and it would cause the blower to cycle.

If your AC is cycling that quickly, you may be low on refrigerant. The fan relay is normal to make a clicking sound when it turns the radiator fans on and off.

AC was working I think up until this week. This is fla so it's hard to tell for sure since I'm coming off of winter a/c usage :D

The clicking was worse in the video when I had the fan on high so I don't think it was cycling for the ac/low blow reason.

The car had only been running a few minutes in the driveway so it wasn't the 40 minute issue. But I think there's a connection and the clicking is related to the issue. It may just be the symptom and not the problem, though. Car temp isn't getting hot (although the temp gauge always seems lazy) that I can tell. If there was an issue with the radiator fan wouldn't the temp start to rise?

Bitsyncmaster
03-22-2016, 05:28 PM
Yes if the radiator fans fail, your temp gauge should show you engine is running hot. Now in the winter, you may have enough air passing over the radiator when driving to not overheat.

Your oil gauge seems to be jumping when the fans were turning on and off. I would check the two power feed throughs (+12 volt and ground) which are behind the rear wood panel below the rear window.

mluder
03-22-2016, 06:18 PM
I apologize for how many times I say "clicking" in advance:
https://youtu.be/dYAu4R3l040

What is going on? I don't feel like this amount of clicking (and the (?blower?) fan not staying on) is not normal...

That's the relay turning on the radiator fan. It should not be cycling that much. Usually that's indicative that the AC system needs a re-charge... which could indicate a bigger problem.
Take it to someplace that does AC work and have them drain the system adn pull a vacuum to see if there's a leak. If not, then a recharge should do it.

Cheers
Steve

16949
04-10-2016, 02:15 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/ec05b8b0b579d6d55e52f5524142577f.jpg

Connected to fan failure wiring unit, looks fried...

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16949
04-10-2016, 02:32 PM
http://store.delorean.com/p-7225-wire-link-fused.aspx is this the way to go or is there something better?


Eta: http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/1d09d14bb560b6ec3b26406834e81e21.jpgLooks like i have the blue unit, guess i need to get the relay update kit, or the improved. .


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Bitsyncmaster
04-10-2016, 03:16 PM
Those BUSS manufacturer fuses will not blow open if your current is close to the rating (20 amps.) I have seen this from about 5 other owners. Get fuses made by LITTLEFUSE. And your fans are probably drawing way to much current.

How can I tell that is a BUSS fuse? It has a "Z" shaped fuse element. The other manufactures use the "little bump" shaped element.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12287-Fuse-testing&highlight=fuse+testing

16949
04-10-2016, 03:44 PM
Those BUSS manufacturer fuses will not blow open if your current is close to the rating (20 amps.) I have seen this from about 5 other owners. Get fuses made by LITTLEFUSE. And your fans are probably drawing way to much current.

How can I tell that is a BUSS fuse? It has a "Z" shaped fuse element. The other manufactures use the "little bump" shaped element.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12287-Fuse-testing&highlight=fuse+testing
Scary to hear of the fire someone had from it, wow.. mine was tucked up, over and into the corridor so it was hidden and not even specified in the old manuals. So i never looked there until i was looking in another Delorean's compartment last week and wondered where my fuse was..

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Jonathan
04-10-2016, 10:39 PM
Looks like i have the blue unit, guess i need to get the relay update kit, or the improved. .

Hi Ms. 16949 (sorry, don't know your name :) ),

When you hear people talking about the "blue unit," it's in reference to what used to be in that spot on your car, thankfully.

Have a look at this service bulletin. It explains what the issue was, what the solution was, and how that three-way wire link was supposed to be (and which spots it plugged into on the blue socket).

http://www.dmcnews.com/bulletins/ST-06-9.82.html

You don't need to change out the blue socket, although confirming the connections underneath are still good wouldn't be a bad idea.

But, yes, getting that fused three-way wire link from DMCH, in addition to the other fuses and relays that are part of that kit is a good idea and a good thing to upgrade on your car if still running all the originals.

And if Dave advises against the "Z" shaped fuse element types, then I would think that's good advice to follow too. That's out of my area of expertise, so I'd go with his suggestion on the in particular type of fuses.

This is a photo of how it looked on my car when I put the replacement in soon after getting the car:

41442

And this is about what it looked like the day I got the car (it had the three-way wire without the fuses in it like the bulletin mentions):

41443

16949
04-11-2016, 12:59 AM
That makes sense, thank you. .. Since mine is an 83,it would have already had the replacement, altho reading the bulletin that sounds like it was not intended to be the permanent fix (?). .

Now to read about fanzilla and joe cool, i guess..

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Domi
04-11-2016, 04:20 PM
I have the joe cool unit and it's working really nice ;)
41451
No more worries :thumbup:

16949
05-01-2016, 06:08 PM
Not really anything to update the past month, no parts and no time.

I ordered specialt's relay upgrade kit last week. I sent them an email today for shipping eta, as next weekend I really need to work on this, I don't want a fire. I researched locally, o'reilly sells littelfuse's so I stopped there and bought some fuses and a fuse holder to replace the melted one. I hate wasting money on buying stuff twice but I was tired of not driving my car at all. I got home and realized that the existing 2nd fuse holder did not match (and wouldn't really work with the one I bought) so I would have to go back anyway and buy another one (not to mention the two I am waiting for from specialT) so rather than keep hacking I gave up and emailed specialt for an eta on shipping. I did change out the fuses in the meanwhile just not the one I am concerned about (the fan fail replacement inline). My #2 was burnt out, I put it in with the number "upside down" so I can track it if burns out again.

I also ordered the all-in-one fuel pump today (from dmc). More "wasted" money because I just paid for the old style pump in October and a few other related parts back when I let my bf order and replace that when I first bought it. I don't want to keep throwing good money after bad, so I bought the all in one and I guess I will fire-sale the original. I didn't want the original in the first place, so annoying to flush a couple hundred but I'm learning that's how year one ownership works :D

And, after reading through the concours manual, I am 88% of the way to giving up that concours one-day goal. Even though I think my car is as close to an ideal starting point for concours as you can buy for a 33 year old car, I am just not sure the work is worth the payback to get the rest of the way to concours. (I welcome opinions on that, if I am right or wrong?) And then at the end of the day, do I want a concours car or one that has some more reliable components installed.. (?) I may need to give some thought into the cost versus the value to get from "here" to "there", I guess.

I also ordered the Major Service kit today (from dmc) with:
"(1) 100523 Fuel Filter with Pad (1) 101069 Lambda Sensor (1) 102114B Oil Filter, Bosch (1) 102249 Gasket, Rocker CVR RH-123 (1) 102256 Gasket, Rocker CVR LH-456 (1) 102442 Belt, Alternator (6) 102443 Spark Plug - Silver (1) 102575 Air Filter Element (1) 102604 Rotor, Distributor (1) 102606 Cap, Distributor (1) 102702A Aftermarket Ignition Wire Set (Improved boots) (1) 105505 Drive Belt, A/C" ---
because I already saw some wear on the belts so it can't hurt to replace all that this year.

It's a bit overwhelming to figure out who to order what from, and why, and how long it will take to receive. I'm generation X so I <3 the 80s, but I also buy most everything from Amazon prime same day arrival... I am sure it is frustrating to companies that have been supplying parts for 35 years to suddenly operate under the modern expectations for shipping. I remember in the 90s buying something online and not expecting it for a month - if ever! But I still don't want to wait a long time for parts and I do have to say that DMC has a great shipping department/process. (So is Bitsynmaster great at shipping faster than I can even get to repairing).

So nothing new, just parts ordered. I haven't driven my car in a couple of weeks because of my concern over the inline fuse being melted. When I started it today, it didn't start for many attempts. I had the battery off for weeks so I knew it wasn't that and it was turning over fine. So I kept turning to let it prime and back a bunch of times and I guess that got enough fuel loaded up to where it started. I didn't have the problem again today. I'm not going to worry about that too much until I get the all in one put in. This is the first time it wouldn't start for a dozen attempts, though...

I am really looking forward to putting the all in one in, because it will rule out the big UNKNOWN I've had for the 40 minute quirk.

Morpheus
07-07-2016, 04:20 PM
After just replacing the tiny internal fuel pump in my All-in-One DMCH unit, I can't stress enough the importance of cleaning out the tank when you install it. My pickup filter was NASTY, which makes me believe that the PO of my car didn't do a very good job, if he did it at all.
44257

In addition, take this opportunity to replace the main Fuel Filter as well, since I see you ordered it. Have you checked your fuel accumulator yet? It might be a good idea to take a look in the cubby to see what's doing in there. This is what awaited me when I bought my car:
4425844259

What you see here is the ORIGINAL fuel accumulator and rubber lines. Note that the rubber is crumbling off, revealing the white reinforcing fibers underneath. Yeah, that's not good.

After replacement:
44260
Having a known-good fuel system from the tank to the Fuel Distributor is a nice feeling.