Whats the deal with Rusty Frames?

[MADMACK692]

Hello!

There seems to be a lot of discussion about frames rusting. I have seen a few build threads that have shown the frame getting sections cut / replaced. Seems to usually be the engine cradle.

I also noticed that DeLorean Performance Industries has a weld in repair section for the engine cradle.

Has anyone installed one of these weld in sections? How difficult is it? Are rusted frames fairly common? This may be a good way for me to get a fixer upper. I have had repairs like this done to previous vehicles. It doesn't scare me. The only thing with it is that once I get a cars frame / unibody patched up I refuse to sell it or trade it in to ensure no one gets screwed as I feel a major repair like that shouldn't be hidden.

But honestly, I want a project D and have no desire to cut it lose once its done. Also seems satisfying to fix a D on its death bed and keep it on the road.

What do you guys think would be a fair price for a fixer upper with a bad frame? I know every case is different but I think its a safe assumption that a D with a bad frame is in fair to poor shape otherwise...

Thanks Guys!

[DMCVegas]

Rusty frames are more of a problem in wetter, and especially colder climates where the roads get salted. The epoxy is pretty tough, but it is susceptible to some physical damage, and even chemical as once it comes into contact with brake fluid for example, it becomes soft and will peel right off. Which leaves an opportunity for water to get in between the remaining epoxy and frame. In that area, the water gets trapped because it can't evaporate off, which creates more of a rust problem.

A common area for rust is the frame right below the Brake Master Cylinder. You've got plenty of opportunity for brake fluid to get spilled while refilling the MC after a flush, and the seals between the MC and the Reservoir can go bad on old units, which also causes seepage.

Another area for rust is around the tow hooks, They're steel and coated in epoxy, but the coating can become physically damaged by tow hooks and expose the metal.

Just keep in mind that the DeLorean isn't a unibody. It's a cab & chassis design which utilizes a double-Y frame. So you could repair (properly), or even swap out the chassis entirely, and the safety of the vehicle wouldn't be compromised as with unibody cars.

[Morpheus]

Welcome to the forum!

We get a lot of folks coming in here saying they want to find a project car and fix it up, and I admire that enthusiasm. The costs involved in resurrecting a rotting DMC are such that you are almost always much better off just purchasing a good running vehicle from the start. Believe me, even a D in "good" condition is going to need some work done to it. The benefit of doing it this way is you actually get to drive and enjoy the car during the restoration, which helps you stay focused on your goal.

I speak from experience. I purchased a "fixer-upper" D a few years back that needed a complete frame-off restoration. After 3 years of pouring money and time (not to mention blood, sweat, and tears) into it, I lost the joy of ownership. I viewed the car as an endless time and money suck, and began to resent it. Eventually I sold it, still in pieces, to another owner so they could finish what I started. It was a costly lesson to learn.

Years later, I took the plunge again. This time, I found a car that was in amazing shape (and very low miles) and spent a bit more for it. So far, I have done some major work on it such as exhaust manifold gaskets, coolant hoses, tune up, water pump, radiator, fans, etc. Every bit of work I did myself, and though it gets frustrating sometimes I enjoyed the hell out of it. In between large projects, I have been able to drive it and enjoy it, which makes all the hard work worth it. Of course, YMMV, and it's a personal decision that only you can make, but go into it with eyes wide open so you won't resent your purchase later on.

[dn010]

Before you go thinking it will be a good way to get a cheap fixer-upper DeLorean:

I've gone through a frame already- I'm on my second. I got my car in 2002 not knowing or caring about frame issues or what to even look for. I used to drive my car in upstate New York as a daily driver all year including winter. One day I heard a crunch while I was taking a sharp turn and when I inspected, my crumple zone was so rusty it collapsed on itself. That lead to my first repair by reinforcing the front of the frame. After a while then I needed to graft on a section on the front because reinforcements failed. - Not only will the frame rust, every component along with it will rust as well including the hard vacuum lines and fuel lines on top of the frame. My suspension was trashed, LCAs useless, every nut and bolt was junk, springs were garbage, brake lines were a joke - there was very little that was able to be salvaged in my case. Not only that, components on the fiberglass body were rusted as well (riv-nut components). I can't even tell you how much time and $ I spent/wasted repairing the first frame!

In the end, I had enough of that and was lucky to have gotten some what of a roller from a CA car, it saved me from having to buy all the suspension links, lines, etc. but that one still needed work where the MC leaked on the frame rail. If you add up all the links, link bolts, bushings, lines, LCAs, bearings etc it can get expensive quick.

When you're looking at a car with a rusty frame you have to look at all the other components and consider what else will need to be replaced and add it all up. I'm sorry but I have to laugh at the guys who just slap a coat of POR-15 on rusty components thinking to themselves their rust troubles are solved. You can repair it all you want but you also have to prep surfaces correctly and prevent future rust which is tough with boxed in areas - it will only begin rusting from the inside out since most people don't coat the inside with anything and welding burns off any coating you put on prior to patching. If your time is worth anything add that up too; depending on your situation - add a wife & kids into the mix and you multiply your time until complete by 5. Then you'll be working on your frame and looking at the rest of the body up in the air on blocks wondering when the hell you'll ever be able to enjoy the car again.

The BEST THING I can tell you is to save yourself a headache and get a D with a good frame & components. I traded a car for my DeLorean and spent more than the cost of a good daily driver on restoring mine.

My first, junk frame for your viewing pleasure. There are more in my "old frame" photo album, I wish I had one of the inside of my engine cradle but it's on my home computer. Oh, and by the way - this frame had been coated heavily in POR-15, twice.
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=39656&d=1455200716

[SS Spoiler]

Bought my car 1988 from a guy who lived in downtown Minneapolis.
Frame had so many holes in it that it didn't collapse was a miracle. I
was able to by a new frame from KAPAC in 1989. If my frame rotted
out in 7 years, todays cars need a very close look see.....

[NJP548]

Bought my car 1988 from a guy who lived in downtown Minneapolis.
Frame had so many holes in it that it didn't collapse was a miracle. I
was able to by a new frame from KAPAC in 1989. If my frame rotted
out in 7 years, todays cars need a very close look see.....

Just out of curiosity, how much was a new frame from KAPAC in 1989?

Thanks.

-Nick Pitello

[SS Spoiler]

Back in 1989 I think I paid 1,800 dollars. KAPAC was selling stuff for the original
list prices of 1981. Looking back I wish I bought more stuff....

[David T]

If you buy a car with a rotten frame you can also figure it will need a LOT of other things too. In some cases it is easier, faster, cheaper to just get another frame. If you do that you wind up replacing a lot of bushings too. Any car with a frame that bad will usually need all sorts of other parts too. It will become a restoration and can cost over $20K in parts alone. Frames are getting scarce and expensive and if it isn't nearby, shipping is expensive. Buying one to fix up isn't always cheaper than buying one in the best condition you can afford and then fixing that one up. In the end you will spend less and have a car to use quicker. The common areas for rot are the front crumple zone and the engine cradle. On cars with rotten frames all of the nuts and bolts are gong to be so corroded that many will break as you try to take things apart. Adds to the fun. In many cases a car with a rotten frame is worth less than $3K but the seller wants over $10K for it! Don't overpay for a car with a rotten frame, it isn't worth it. Especially if it isn't a runner (the motor won't start, the car doesn't drive). There is a small but important difference between an automatic frame and a 5-speed frame. They can be modified, just be aware of the necessary change if you do a reframe.