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content22207_2
02-22-2016, 06:14 PM
I’ve been out of the carb conversion practice for a couple of years, but am curently building up a small inventory of “kits” (no step-by-step illustrated instructions, but everything necessary to do a complete conversion in one box), estimated to be ready in about a month.

I will have both dual plane and single plane intake manifolds available (dual planes are basically “street” manifolds and single planes are basically “race” manifolds – very different operational characteristics and very different power bands).

Dual plane intake manifolds are fabricated from scratch:

39995 39996 39997

Single plane intake manifolds are adapted Peugeot 604:

39998 39999 40000

In addition to the intake manifold, I will provide:
- All hardware
- Square profile O rings
- Rebuilt carburetor (pre-tuned and test driven)
- Air filter housing with custom lid
- Throttle cable bracket
- Throttle cable ball end (manual transmission) or throttle cable clevises/shoulder bolts (automatic transmission)
- Full throttle kickdown microswitch bracket (automatic transmission)
- Injector port plugs
- PCV valve
- All hoses and clamps
- Generic fuel filter and bracket
- Fuel pump carrier (rides in stock tank boot)
- Fuel tank baffle (“tuna fish” baffle)
- Charcoal canister blockoff plate (optional)

My own car has been carbureted since 2004. I’ve been making conversions for other owners since 2008. There are currently 21 iterations of my conversions in service – it’s a well vetted design. Every conversion gets test driven on my own car before signing off. Installation takes a couple of hours. Carb conversions are totally reversible (to date no one I have assisted has either gone back to K-Jet or to EFI). Both Del Silviera and John Marconi sold their carbureted DeLoreans without any price penalty.

Final costs are still being tallied. I expect complete “kits” to cost less than $1,500.

I will post progress updates as they become available.

My own car (intake manifold is Volvo A Series, on which my dual plane manifolds are patterned):

40001

Bill Robertson
#5939

SS Spoiler
02-22-2016, 08:20 PM
Interesting jig set up for welding.....

Ron
02-22-2016, 09:19 PM
In addition to the intake manifold, I will provide:
- All hardware
...

Did you forget to list a "low pressure" fuel pump?

P.S. Welcome back Bill!

content22207_2
02-22-2016, 09:44 PM
Interesting jig set up for welding.....

Welder uses a K-Jet manifold to set up the jig. Yields manifolds that bolt right up:

40037

I am using a new welder for these latest manifolds (I don't have equipment to weld aluminum -- I machine the pieces, he puts them together). He is doing a very careful job. Owners should be pleased.

Bill Robertson
#5939

opethmike
02-22-2016, 10:05 PM
So the guy who got banned from here, went to another redneck forum, turned into a pariah there, and now is back here? Good grief.

Dear mods, please do your proper duty and get this pimple banned again.

Lou and "Boo"
02-22-2016, 10:11 PM
Was just a matter of time.

Best of luck Mr. Robertson...

content22207_2
02-22-2016, 10:32 PM
Should probably post an explanatory picture: from a distance Peugeot 604 manifolds look like dual planes, but they are in fact single plane -- there is a large common plenum under the two venturi bores:

40042

Del Silviera's manifold had those two openings routed out into one big hole. A Renault Alpine group in the UK is doing the same thing (and welding Holley footprint adapters). I suspect Peugeot originally used the two venturi bores to support a divider the baseplate gasket.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
02-22-2016, 10:46 PM
Who's Del Silviera ?

Rich_NYS
02-22-2016, 10:58 PM
Looks great, Bill. :rock_on:

I haven't yet decided if I'll reinstall K-Jet, but in the meantime I might get one of your kits if I don't like how my current setup performs.


Would you give more details on the dual-plane versus single-plane performance, and how one "feels" compared to the other? Also, do you recall if you had a single or dual plane manifold installed when I drove your car?

Pilot
02-22-2016, 11:06 PM
Can't wait to get mine.

Lou and "Boo"
02-22-2016, 11:10 PM
My experience:
Dual plane homemade -power at low rpms, power drops off at higher rpms
Single plane-power at low end and increases all the way up the rpm range

Both run well but single plane factory sand cast manifold runs noticeably smoother, even at idle.

Once I noticed the smoothness and felt the power and speed I knew I wouldn't be going back to Kjet or the homemade dual plane manifold. Not that I have a choice now anyway.

sdg3205
02-22-2016, 11:20 PM
Who's Del Silviera ?

He's a Canadian. You wouldn't know him, Lou :)

Lou and "Boo"
02-22-2016, 11:25 PM
That's true. In fact, I really don't know anybody.

content22207_2
02-23-2016, 12:27 AM
Would you give more details on the dual-plane versus single-plane performance, and how one "feels" compared to the other? Also, do you recall if you had a single or dual plane manifold installed when I drove your car?

Plenty of info on the Internet about dual plane vs single plane intake manifolds. This YouTube clip gives a short synopsis:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh1JF-9g2vk

Good rule of thumb is how many RPM's you typically spin before shifting gears. If you typically shift in the 2,000-3,000 RPM range you most likely will be happiest with a dual plane intake manifold. If you typically shift in the 4,000-5,000 RPM range you most likely will be happiest with a single plane intake manifold.

Dual plane manifolds have very strong and consistent vacuum signals, especially off idle. Single plane intake manifolds have very inconsistent vacuum signals and are noticeably slower to respond off idle (they also are a little twitchy off idle). The tradeoff is high RPM performance -- single planes allow you to reach high RPM's very quickly and easily. Dual planes will red line as well, but they take longer and the engine has to work harder to get there.

Notice suggested RPM ranges for Edelbrock and Weiand intake manifolds: dual planes are recommended for idle to mid-RPM performance, single planes are recommended for mid- to high-RPM performance. Those recommendations of course take into account common modifications such as more aggressive camshafts and higher compression ratios, but the general principle remains even on an unmodified engine.

I have both single and dual plane intake manifolds I switch back & forth between (Volvo A Series is single plane without a plenum insert, which I don't have). Typically I put the dual plane on when people will be test driving my car because it's milder mannered, especially since people don't tend to rev other owners' engines high when test driving them.

I've never seen one of Byrne's modified K-Jet manifolds in person, but if I'm understanding them correctly he's routed out a common plenum between runners 1 and 6. Performance is going to depend upon the size of that plenum -- the bigger the plenum, the boggier vacuum signals (imagine running your household water through a swimming pool between the meter and the house, then opening and closing the kitchen faucet). Since he's routing out the center of the manifold, leaving capped off runners on the other side of each live runner, there's bound to be some buffering of the vacuum signals no matter how small the center plenum is.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
02-23-2016, 12:39 AM
So Bill the manifold you drive most often on for daily use is the Volvo single plane?

content22207_2
02-23-2016, 12:40 AM
I've never seen one of Byrne's modified K-Jet manifolds in person...

Rich has a Byrne manifold.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMC-81
02-23-2016, 01:11 AM
So the guy who got banned from here, went to another redneck forum, turned into a pariah there, and now is back here? Good grief.

Dear mods, please do your proper duty and get this pimple banned again.

I am one who favors second chances. This forum is an incredible go-to place for Delorean technical knowledge, and I think Bill's experience is an asset. Let's not throw any stones yet, shall we?

Welcome back Bill.

eagle-co94
02-23-2016, 02:46 AM
Welcome back Bill!

Looks like you've got a nice collection of PRV intake manifolds there! I sold my spare and am now down to one. I'm keeping that for my next car...I think.

Glad to see that you're set up to sell an inexpensive alternative to K-Jet. I know I spent about $1500 on K-Jet on my first D just to get the motor running. If I had known about carbs back then I'd have gone that route.

Tamir A.
02-23-2016, 02:57 AM
Bill reached out and wanted to post his carb progress in a thread under this sub-forum. I said sure, just stick to the car stuff. Regardless of what stuff happened in the past, if this information and kit helps some DeLorean owners out there, than I'd rather have it be a productive thread.

T.


I am one who favors second chances. This forum is an incredible go-to place for Delorean technical knowledge, and I think Bill's experience is an asset. Let's not throw any stones yet, shall we?

Welcome back Bill.

Rich_NYS
02-23-2016, 11:33 AM
Thanks Bill,

So, that was a single-plane you were running at Justin's, right?

My manifold is off, so if you're interested in any pics or measurements let me know and I'll get them asap.

SProfita
02-24-2016, 03:54 PM
IMO the carb conversion is a genius alternative to fuel delivery on a DMC...im sure others have thought about it, and maybe there are possible plans in the works. Here in my town aircraft capitol of the world we have tons of machine shops that could possibly CAD desighn/reverse engineer a peugot mani to make in bulk. While it may increase the price, could be made in bulk kits and sold. But who knows if its worth it for a vehicle in which 8,000 cars exist... maybe the "new" models will be carbed... 

content22207_2
02-24-2016, 04:20 PM
Dug out my extra Volvo manifold to take some pictures for another thread. This view clearly shows what a single plane intake plenum looks like under the carb:

40088

Peugeot 604 looks basically the same under its two venturi bores (as stated earlier, Peugeot manifolds look like dual planes at a glance, but are really single planes underneath the venturi bores. UK Alpine club has a very similar plenum after they route those venturi bores out).

Compare to the dual plane plenum on the welding jig at the beginning of this thread.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
02-24-2016, 04:26 PM
Dual plane plenums:

40089

The reason dual planes have such strong and consistent vacuum signals is because they are 1 3/8" diameter from the throttle plates all the way to the intake ports.

The reason dual planes struggle to move air at high RPM's is because they are 1 3/8" diameter from the throttle plates all the way to the intake ports.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
02-24-2016, 04:40 PM
Peugeot 604 manifold with the two venturi openings (and a lot more meat) routed out and a 4 barrel adapter welded on:

40090

You can imagine how turbulent this tremendous size plenum is at low RPM's.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Farrar
02-24-2016, 04:46 PM
Just thought I'd pipe up here and say that as an "early adopter" of this method, I remain a satisfied customer. Bill helped me put a carburetor on my car in 2008, just before the Gettysburg show. Ever since then, fuel delivery has been the least of my car's problems. But for the younger folks out there: do your homework! A carburetor is not magic. You need to know how it works in order to use it correctly. I studied up and knew what I was getting into. This method of fuel delivery allowed me to keep the car on the road while I worked on other problems. (Until the engine destroyed itself, but that's another story.) In my opinion, if you can familiarize yourself with the Motorcraft 2100-series of carburetors before you get one of Bill's kits, you can install this kit in the morning and be driving down the road by afternoon.

Edit: Just don't do what I did, which was buy the cheapest fuel pump available. That led to a fuel delivery problem! LOL

content22207_2
02-24-2016, 06:03 PM
The worst thing an owner can do if they don't understand carburetors is stick one on their car -- the carb will be a "mystery box" that they may suspect whenever something goes wrong simply because they don't understand it. I had an owner once overheat his car, most likely from air trapped in the radiator, after doing a carb conversion and wondered if the carb might have had something to do with it.

With varying degrees, nearly carburetors are simple devices unlikely to cause problems. Some carbs are simpler than others. Autolite/Motorcraft 2100 series is incredibly simple, with very few moving parts (there are *SOME* moving parts: I advise new owners to sit down with the carb at their kitchen table and watch it go through its motions before bolting it down to get a complete understanding). One thing that distinguishes the 2100 series is it meters fuel by airflow alone (no metering rods). 2100 series also uses airflow to switch between idle and throttle circuits. And it uses the same jets for both idle and throttle circuits.

2100 series is also nice because spare parts availability is through the roof. The Chinese are even making surprisingly good replicas to this very day (they are obviously making all the bits from scratch, not laboriously tearing down OEM carbs and refurbishing them). I bought a "commie carb" out of curiosity and was really impressed with its authenticity, but continue to refurb Ford OEM carbs for my conversions.

That said, there are other carbs is use. Jeff Dickey is running a Rochester 2GC. Lou Costa is running a Holley. As long as it bolts up, sky's pretty much the limit.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
02-24-2016, 06:21 PM
When I tear a carburetor down to rebuild it, I tear it *ALL* the way down:

40093

Bill Robertson
#5939

dmruschell
02-25-2016, 12:21 AM
The worst thing an owner can do if they don't understand carburetors is stick one on their car -- the carb will be a "mystery box" that they may suspect whenever something goes wrong simply because they don't understand it. I had an owner once overheat his car, most likely from air trapped in the radiator, after doing a carb conversion and wondered if the carb might have had something to do with it.

With varying degrees, nearly carburetors are simple devices unlikely to cause problems. Some carbs are simpler than others. Autolite/Motorcraft 2100 series is incredibly simple, with very few moving parts (there are *SOME* moving parts: I advise new owners to sit down with the carb at their kitchen table and watch it go through its motions before bolting it down to get a complete understanding). One thing that distinguishes the 2100 series is it meters fuel by airflow alone (no metering rods). 2100 series also uses airflow to switch between idle and throttle circuits. And it uses the same jets for both idle and throttle circuits.

2100 series is also nice because spare parts availability is through the roof. The Chinese are even making surprisingly good replicas to this very day (they are obviously making all the bits from scratch, not laboriously tearing down OEM carbs and refurbishing them). I bought a "commie carb" out of curiosity and was really impressed with its authenticity, but continue to refurb Ford OEM carbs for my conversions.

That said, there are other carbs is use. Jeff Dickey is running a Rochester 2GC. Lou Costa is running a Holley. As long as it bolts up, sky's pretty much the limit.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Will a Holley 2 barrel bolt up? I'm waiting on pricing, but am interested in having some single plane manifolds as spares in case KJet ever goes up on me. I'd prefer to use a Holley carburetor, though, since my other cars run best with them and I've learned how to operate them.

Bill, I know that we've talked about single vs dual plane manifolds in the past, and I'd definitely want a single plane for my manual. But, for an automatic, would a dual plane be the better choice? I ask because my wife's car is an automatic and she drives less aggressively than I do. Plus, automatics usually don't shift high in the RPM range anyways.

Drewlorean
02-25-2016, 12:50 AM
I remain a satisfied customer. Fuel delivery has been the least of my car's problems.

+1

The fear of my car not starting is long gone.
The fear of my car killing me in other ways is alive and well.

Lou and "Boo"
02-25-2016, 01:20 AM
Bill, maybe you can tell us all how reliable your setup is by telling us how many "Teitlebaums" you have put on your care since converting to carberation.

So how many "Teitlebaums" is it ?

content22207_2
02-25-2016, 01:38 AM
... automatics usually don't shift high in the RPM range anyways.

One of the interesting nuances of the Renault automatic is external control of how many RPM's before the transmission shifts. That's what the second cable on the throttle spool does. Tightening or loosening it raises or lowers the shift points (can't remember which direction raises or lowers the shift points -- perhaps Farrar can confirm).

My automatic conversions include a second clevis to pull on the shift point cable, which passes through the clevis and gets locked into place with a cable stop after the user picks shift points he or she likes.

Bill Robertson
#5939

dmruschell
02-25-2016, 02:14 AM
One of the interesting nuances of the Renault automatic is external control of how many RPM's before the transmission shifts. That's what the second cable on the throttle spool does. Tightening or loosening it raises or lowers the shift points (can't remember which direction raises or lowers the shift points -- perhaps Farrar can confirm).

My automatic conversions include a second clevis to pull on the shift point cable, which passes through the clevis and gets locked into place with a cable stop after the user picks shift points he or she likes.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I've adjusted the cable on her DeLorean. It shifts at 5,000 rpms at WOT. I think there's enough adjustment left to get it to 5,500, but I'm not sure if there will be any way (without modifying the electronics) to adjust beyond that. It does have performance camshafts, so it makes power in the high rpm range. I'm just wondering if it will be worth the potential sacrifice in bottom end power when it's not driven aggressively and probably won't shift much above 5500. A dual plane seems to make more sense, unless I'm mistaken or not a lot of bottom end power is sacrificed by using a single plane.

content22207_2
02-25-2016, 02:07 PM
The engine will spin at lower RPM's. It's not as though you need to drive through a parking lot at 5,000 RPM.

But the power band definitely shifts upward. If you drive the car where it feel natural, then look at the tachometer, you will discover that you are turning at least 1,000 RPM more than usual, if not more. I'm talking about shifting-- I cruise on the highway at 2,500-2,800 RPM all the time. But on the on ramp I'm 5,000 plus RPM.

If you ever buy a single plane manifold easiest thing to do would be to put it on Ellon's car and test drive it. Carbed manifolds can be popped on & off in a matter of minutes. I orient Peugeot 604 manifolds with the carb towards the rear, so you'd need to swap throttle cables too (throttle plates are about a foot away from K-Jet's location). There's really no way to put a big kink in the throttle cable sheath and still have the cable slide smoothly.

Bill Robertson
#5939

dmruschell
02-25-2016, 02:44 PM
The engine will spin at lower RPM's. It's not as though you need to drive through a parking lot at 5,000 RPM.

But the power band definitely shifts upward. If you drive the car where it feel natural, then look at the tachometer, you will discover that you are turning at least 1,000 RPM more than usual, if not more. I'm talking about shifting-- I cruise on the highway at 2,500-2,800 RPM all the time. But on the on ramp I'm 5,000 plus RPM.

If you ever buy a single plane manifold easiest thing to do would be to put it on Ellon's car and test drive it. Carbed manifolds can be popped on & off in a matter of minutes. I orient Peugeot 604 manifolds with the carb towards the rear, so you'd need to swap throttle cables too (throttle plates are about a foot away from K-Jet's location). There's really no way to put a big kink in the throttle cable sheath and still have the cable slide smoothly.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Ok, then it sounds like single plane is the right way to go for both cars. Thanks! I look forward to when you have them for sale.

Another question: What CFM carburetor would you recommend, keeping in mind that both cars have performance camshafts? Holley has their 2 barrels (I've confirmed that they will bolt on in place of the 2100 carburetor) in 350 or 500 CFM.

Farrar
02-25-2016, 02:55 PM
The Ford 1.08 venturi on my automatic flows 287 CFM, so I imagine that or ever so slightly more would be good.

content22207_2
02-25-2016, 03:32 PM
When I said the sky's the limit for carburetors, I meant for other owners on their own recognizance. For me, 2100's are the limit. All my OEM cores are 2100's. All my spare parts are 2100's. All my rebuild kits are 2100's. All my templates for manifolds and adapter plates are 2100's. Just as Rob Grady only stocks 2.8 parts, not parts for 3.0's, LS1's, Chevy small blocks, Acura and Nissan engines, or any of the other power plants that have been dropped into DeLoreans.

My recommendation is to do a complete conversion with a 2100 first, then change to a different carburetor as a separate operation if so desired. If the different carb doesn't share the 2100 footprint you'll need to make an adapter plate anyway.

BTW: That's also my recommendation for any other changes in the engine compartment, such as removing and plugging sensors in the coolant distribution pipe, removing disused K-Jet wiring, painting and detailing, etc. Get the car running on its carb first, then make other changes as separate operations.

I posted this vid on the old .com site:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lxsemJO-Gg

Somewhat tongue in cheek, but it does show that carbureted intake manifolds can be popped on & off without any fuss. There's no reason not to do a carb conversion one weekend, then do intake valley work, wiring work, detailing and painting, etc on subsequent weekends.

Bill Robertson
#5939

dmruschell
02-25-2016, 07:46 PM
The Ford 1.08 venturi on my automatic flows 287 CFM, so I imagine that or ever so slightly more would be good.

Yeah, I was thinking 500 might be a bit much. That, and it's usually better to go slightly smaller than go too big (unless the secondaries are vacuum operated, but 2 barrels don't have secondaries).

content22207_2
02-25-2016, 08:14 PM
Our little engines are 174 cubic inches (low compression 174 cubic inches). 2 barrels provide more than enough venturi area.

With a carburetor it's all about airflow. If you don't have enough air passing through the venturis, the carb can't draft fuel. Too large of venturis, or too many venturis (4 barrel), simply won't work right.

I've helped nearly two dozen owners. The carbs we use are sized very well. Byrne Heninger uses the same carbs for his conversions (Chinese replicas).

Bill Robertson
#5939

dmruschell
02-25-2016, 09:14 PM
Our little engines are 174 cubic inches (low compression 174 cubic inches). 2 barrels provide more than enough venturi area.

With a carburetor it's all about airflow. If you don't have enough air passing through the venturis, the carb can't draft fuel. Too large of venturis, or too many venturis (4 barrel), simply won't work right.

I've helped nearly two dozen owners. The carbs we use are sized very well. Byrne Heninger uses the same carbs for his conversions (Chinese replicas).

Bill Robertson
#5939

You're preaching to the choir on carburetors. I went through a lot of research, and a few carburetors, before settling on my 750cfm Holleys (vacuum secondary) on my performance cars.

The Holley 2300 bolt pattern is exactly the same as the Motorcraft 2100, and so is a bolt-on replacement. In fact, both were used interchangeably in OEM applications in the 60s. All new 2 barrel Holley carburetors use the 2300 bolt pattern, so they should bolt right up to any of your manifolds :) I just figure since I'm already familiar with the Holleys, it would make more sense for me to stick with what I know and am happy with. Thanks for all the responses!

content22207_2
02-26-2016, 10:10 AM
Took a look at a 2300 throttle shaft. It has very large holes where Motorcraft throttle balls would be, most likely 1/4":

40125

1/4" holes may be a Holley thing. My school bus originally had a Holley carb that used a 1/4" clevis pin to attach its carb -- I had to drill out the throttle mechanism and use a 1/4" bolt when converting it to an Autolite:

40126

If you are going to use a Holley carb, it might be best just to buy a manifold and adapter plate. Everything I have is set up for throttle balls (or #10 clevis pins). Sounds like you would be able to fabricate your own throttle attachment. Don't forget that on Ellon's car you would also need to fabricate a bracket to hold the full throttle kickdown microswitch:

40127 40128

What would be great is if you sourced your own manifold, then I could simply make an adapter plate. I did that for Del Silveira and John Dore (they also got carbs from me). Del's was a fun one because his manifold had already been routed out and a Weber adapter plate welded on -- I made his adapter from a pencil rubbing alone (Del lived in British Columbia). At least for John's I had an unadulterated Peugeot manifold to work with. If you provided your own manifold then I could preserve my inventory for complete conversions. There are a couple of owners on this forum who have spare Peugeot manifolds and might be willing to sell them (Chad Krause on Today also has one). Andrew in Michigan has located several Peugeot 604's using online junkyard searches.

Bill Robertson
#5939

dmruschell
02-26-2016, 11:38 AM
Took a look at a 2300 throttle shaft. It has very large holes where Motorcraft throttle balls would be, most likely 1/4":

40125

1/4" holes may be a Holley thing. My school bus originally had a Holley carb that used a 1/4" clevis pin to attach its carb -- I had to drill out the throttle mechanism and use a 1/4" bolt when converting it to an Autolite:

40126

If you are going to use a Holley carb, it might be best just to buy a manifold and adapter plate. Everything I have is set up for throttle balls (or #10 clevis pins). Sounds like you would be able to fabricate your own throttle attachment. Don't forget that on Ellon's car you would also need to fabricate a bracket to hold the full throttle kickdown microswitch:

40127 40128

What would be great is if you sourced your own manifold, then I could simply make an adapter plate. I did that for Del Silveira and John Dore (they also got carbs from me). Del's was a fun one because his manifold had already been routed out and a Weber adapter plate welded on -- I made his adapter from a pencil rubbing alone (Del lived in British Columbia). At least for John's I had an unadulterated Peugeot manifold to work with. If you provided your own manifold then I could preserve my inventory for complete conversions. There are a couple of owners on this forum who have spare Peugeot manifolds and might be willing to sell them (Chad Krause on Today also has one). Andrew in Michigan has located several Peugeot 604's using online junkyard searches.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I've never had any trouble swapping over to a Holley carb.

So, what you're telling me is that because I showed interest in using a different carburetor, that you'd rather not sell to me? Saying that the sky is the limit for carburetors and telling people to learn about the carburetor they're putting on and then not wanting to sell them a kit because they want to use a carburetor that they're more familiar with is a bit contradictory.

I haven't been able to find a manifold on my own, which is why I've talked to you in the past and have waited for you to get pricing set on your Pugeot manifolds.

dmruschell
02-26-2016, 01:46 PM
Bill, I'm not asking for any special treatment or a special package with a different carburetor or anything like that. However you offer the "conversion package" is how I'll buy it whenever they're offered.

content22207_2
02-26-2016, 02:06 PM
So, what you're telling me is that because I showed interest in using a different carburetor, that you'd rather not sell to me?

No, what I'm saying is I'd rather sell you only the parts you will use. Doesn't make any sense for me to rebuild a carburetor that isn't going to get used (or for you to buy it).

Most people I've helped don't want to do any fabrication or source any parts on their own -- they're looking for something they can simply bolt up and start driving. Since you've already adapted Holley carbs onto your other automobiles you fall into a different category.

See if you can find a Peugeot manifold. If you can, I will gladly make a 2100/2300 footprint adapter plate for it. If you can't find a manifold we'll go with one of mine.

I've only got 5 Peugeot manifolds so of course I'd rather save mine for people looking for top to bottom conversions. At least post some messages to see what else is out there. I can make an adapter plate to fit anything you find. As stated, Del Silveira found a manifold that had already been modified, and we made an adapter plate for it no problem (he made a pencil rubbing, like a tombstone rubbing, which allowed me to match his new bolt holes). If your search comes up empty I'll sell you one of my manifolds.

Also let me know if you want other parts such as a fuel pump/carrier, fuel filter bracket, etc.

And see if you can find out what size air filter neck 2300's have. 2100's have 5 1/8" (same as standardized 4 barrel). I use Edelbrock 10" housings with a plastic lid and airbox labels.

I've got a very limited supply of plastic throttle ball ends -- definitely don't want to send you one of those if you're going to be using a clevis pin instead.

Nobody's being mean to Darren -- just don't want to rebuild or fabricate parts that aren't going to get used. Figure out what you need from me versus parts you will supply from your end. I've been down this path before: Jeff Dickey wanted a manifold only (he supplied his own carb), already had a low pressure fuel pump, etc.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
02-26-2016, 02:25 PM
A goodly portion of my "kits" come from Advance and Autozone: carb baseplate gasket, PCV valve, hoses, fuel injection hose clamps, etc. Even the air filter housings come from Autozone (I make a custom lid). I am more than happy to buy things like that on your behalf, or I can give you a list of part numbers and let you buy them up there. As stated, most owners are looking for everything in one box, not a list of part numbers. I'll work with you either way.

Things that are custom from my end:
- Intake manifold or adapter plate
- Throttle cable bracket
- Fuel pump carrier (has a 1/8" male barb at the bottom. I use Airtex E8012S fuel pumps, but any pump that fits inside the carrier with 1/8" threads will work, or you can put a hose barb in it and mount a pump elsewhere)
- Fuel filter bracket (accepts any 1/4" fuel filter, or you can swap the bracket's barbs for 5/16" or 3/8")
- Air filter lid (black nylon disc with OEM airbox stickers)
- Charcoal canister blockoff plate
- Fuel injector plugs (smooth shanks of stainless 3/8" bolts with the threads cut off)
- Tuna fish baffle

And of course rebuilt carburetors for owners who want them.

Bill Robertson
#5939

dmruschell
02-26-2016, 02:39 PM
No, what I'm saying is I'd rather sell you only the parts you will use. Doesn't make any sense for me to rebuild a carburetor that isn't going to get used (or for you to buy it).

Most people I've helped don't want to do any fabrication or source any parts on their own -- they're looking for something they can simply bolt up and start driving. Since you've already adapted Holley carbs onto your other automobiles you fall into a different category.

See if you can find a Peugeot manifold. If you can, I will gladly make a 2100/2300 footprint adapter plate for it. If you can't find a manifold we'll go with one of mine.

I've only got 5 Peugeot manifolds so of course I'd rather save mine for people looking for top to bottom conversions. At least post some messages to see what else is out there. I can make an adapter plate to fit anything you find. As stated, Del Silveira found a manifold that had already been modified, and we made an adapter plate for it no problem (he made a pencil rubbing, like a tombstone rubbing, which allowed me to match his new bolt holes). If your search comes up empty I'll sell you one of my manifolds.

Also let me know if you want other parts such as a fuel pump/carrier, fuel filter bracket, etc.

And see if you can find out what size air filter neck 2300's have. 2100's have 5 1/8" (same as standardized 4 barrel). I use Edelbrock 10" housings with a plastic lid and airbox labels.

I've got a very limited supply of plastic throttle ball ends -- definitely don't want to send you one of those if you're going to be using a clevis pin instead.

Nobody's being mean to Darren -- just don't want to rebuild or fabricate parts that aren't going to get used. Figure out what you need from me versus parts you will supply from your end. I've been down this path before: Jeff Dickey wanted a manifold only (he supplied his own carb), already had a low pressure fuel pump, etc.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Gotcha. Sorry I got defensive; I just misunderstood what you were saying. If me just purchasing what I need works for you, then it works for me, too :) It saves you the fabrication, and saves me from reselling it.

Since I eventually plan on converting the cars to use an integrated pump and sender, I'll probably get a pressure regulator to lower the fuel pressure to the carb (they're used in the muscle car community quite often, so they're readily available). So, I probably won't need a pump or anything in the fuel tank.

There are several ways to attach a throttle linkage to a Holley (and Edelbrock and Quadrajet, etc.... they all seem to have the same options for interchangeability), so if you have a limited supply of plastic balls, I'll figure something else out.

So, other than the carb itself and the fuel pump, I should need everything else in the kit. Fabrication is a bit beyond me at the moment, though I have been able to modify parts that /almost/ work to get them to work right. I'm a big fan of bolt-on and go, especially if someone else has already done the hard part. The whole point of having the kit is to keep the cars on the road!

The carb I'm looking at appears to have the standard air cleaner footprint, and the internet seems to agree that it has the 5 1/4 inch opening.

Thanks again for the help, and sorry for the misunderstanding. :cheers:

content22207_2
02-26-2016, 03:29 PM
Rebuilding these carbs really is a major undertaking. I tear them down completely, soak the aluminum castings in a variety of baths (carb solution, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits) scrubbing nooks & crannies with hand cleaner and a toothbrush between soakings, strip the steel bits with low grade acid and paint them with appliance epoxy, pull out unused vacuum barbs and fill their passages with JB Weld, *THEN* put in a kit with fresh rubber. I also use all new hardware during reassembly.

Definitely don't want to go to all that trouble for a carburetor that's just going to sit on a shelf.

Painting the steel bits:

40130

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
02-26-2016, 08:23 PM
Since I eventually plan on converting the cars to use an integrated pump and sender, I'll probably get a pressure regulator to lower the fuel pressure to the carb (they're used in the muscle car community quite often, so they're readily available). So, I probably won't need a pump or anything in the fuel tank.

I've been running a mechanical fuel pump for a year now:

40131 40132

Got mine from Autozone. About $40. They're made for Peugeot dual carb setups so there's an extra outlet that needs to be plugged. I also wasn't too keen on the barbs that came with it (smooth with no beads on the end) so I replaced them with standard barbed fittings.

I repurposed the K-Jet return line as an outbound fuel line. Old accumulator tee is capped off.

The electric low pressure pump is still in the tank as the tank interface. It's keyed to a toggle switch under my kneepad. In theory if the diaphragm in the mechanical pump ever splits I can turn the electric pump on and continue driving without ever stopping. I do use the electric pump to refill the carb if the car has been sitting for a while (rather than cranking and cranking until the mechanical pump fills the bowl back up).

One nice thing about mechanical fuel pumps: absolutely no need for safety devices such as RPM relays or inertia switches.

And of course no electrical load whatsoever (low pressure electric pumps only draw about 1.5 amps anyway).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Farrar
02-26-2016, 08:33 PM
Rebuilding these carbs really is a major undertaking. I tear them down completely, soak the aluminum castings in a variety of baths (carb solution, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits) scrubbing nooks & crannies with hand cleaner and a toothbrush between soakings, strip the steel bits with low grade acid and paint them with appliance epoxy, pull out unused vacuum barbs and fill their passages with JB Weld, *THEN* put in a kit with fresh rubber. I also use all new hardware during reassembly.

It's worth it, though. My "rebuilt by Holley" Motorcraft 2150 started acquiring rust within three months of moving to southeast Louisiana. And that was with regular use. Whatever they used to strip the gunk off of the carburetor also stripped every molecule of zinc from the steel components.

content22207_2
02-26-2016, 08:46 PM
All of the steel bits are made of low carbon steel. Doesn't take much for them to rust.

The appliance epoxy I use is a quite durable barrier, and it's 2.5% aluminum powder (that's what makes it sparkle) which acts as a sacrificial anode.

I've found that cold galvanizing enamel isn't as durable as appliance epoxy.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Farrar
02-26-2016, 08:56 PM
I've found that cold galvanizing enamel isn't as durable as appliance epoxy.

Noted for when I strip and paint #2613's frame. </joke>

Farrar
02-27-2016, 11:14 PM
I've been running a mechanical fuel pump for a year now

Can I get the part number and/or cross reference for that fuel pump, please?

Also, would that mechanical fuel pump work on a 3.0L engine? (Hint, hint...)

content22207_2
02-28-2016, 12:27 AM
http://www.autozone.com/external-engine/fuel-pump/airtex-fuel-pump/794586_0_0/

Note the extra outlet barb (Peugeot dual carb setup). I pulled mine out and tapped it for a pipe plug.

All 2.8's have a camshaft lobe to drive this pump (under a blockoff plate next to the coolant temp sending unit) but not 3.0's.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
02-28-2016, 01:45 AM
Received an inquiry asking how 2100's can get away with only one fuel circuit (2 identical circuits actually -- one for each venturi).

Each fuel circuit is fed by a jet at the bottom of the fuel bowl (Autolite/Motorcraft jets are at the bottom of the bowl, which makes them virtually impossible to expose -- one reason rock crawlers like these carbs). Both idle and throttle circuits use the same jets and fuel passages. At idle, fuel is drawn up to the booster assembly, mixes with air, then passes back down to the idle adjustment screws (one for each venturi). This happens from manifold vacuum alone. As the throttle plates open manifold vacuum drops, routing increasing fuel/air mixture into the booster assembly rather than down to the idle screws:

40179 40180

It's an ingenious design that uses no moving parts whatsoever (other than the throttle plates).

There are a couple of other nice features to the 2100:
- Integrated fuel bowl (some carbs have separate fuel bowls gasketed to the carb body)
- Single piece carb body (passages are cast and drilled into the body rather than gasketed metering blocks)
- Ability to change jets without draining and removing the fuel bowl

2100's also use annular discharge, a patented design Ford picked up through its purchase of Autolite.

2100's (and 4100's) and Holley's use the same full throttle enrichment valves (aka "power valves"). Unlike Holleys however, 2100 full throttle valves empty into the same fuel passages as idle and throttle circuits. There is a fuel well under the jets. As the full throttle valve opens (manifold vacuum drops), additional fuel bypasses the jets into this well, then into the throttle circuit as before -- it's like swapping out larger jets on the fly.

Accelerator pump has it's own circuit, located in between the two fuel circuits. As the diaphragm is compressed, fuel is pushed into nozzles directly above the venturis. Accelerator pump is the only piece of rubber in a 2100 (other than the choke pulloff diaphragm -- accelerator pump is the only piece of rubber exposed to gasoline).

2100's get good press around the Internet. They are ingeniously simple with almost no moving parts (choke mechanism has more moving parts than the rest of the carb combined).

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-09-2016, 03:49 PM
Picked up the dual plane manifolds in DC this weekend:

40721

I am now ready to mount some carbs and begin test driving.

From the thread on Today I have:

Single Plane
1) Darrin Ruschell
2) Greg Williams

Dual Plane
1) Steve Conley
2) Rachel Shroyer

Some people have contacted me over here too -- need your names as well.

Also need to know if you have a 5 speed or an automatic (nuanced differences in the installations).

Still need to make fuel pump carriers, air filter lids, and a few other odds & ends. I estimate completion before Easter.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 01:42 PM
Oops -- just overwrote a post that was erroneous anyway.

In the General section I was wondering if the full throttle kickdown microswitch is necessary (just trying to save myself from making them -- they are labor intensive). It is, and I will continue to make the brackets.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
03-10-2016, 03:11 PM
In the General section I was wondering if the full throttle kickdown microswitch is necessary (just trying to save myself from making them -- they are labor intensive). It is, and I will continue to make the brackets.

And from that very thread cited, you wrote:


Looking at the wiring diagram, it appears I may have been wrong. Full throttle kickdown microswitch grounds a signal from the Lambda ECU, but I see no connection between the Lambda ECU and the auto trans governor.

Question: Is the Lambda ECU indeed completely divorced from the auto trans governor?

These little microswitch brackets are a PITA to make, so I'd much rather not make them if they are redundant for non K-Jetters.

Bill Robertson
#5939

ಠ_ಠ
Wow. Years of you arguing that K-Jetronic was inferior and that your vast knowledge of it's operation was all the proof that you needed because you *knew* it in and out. Yet you apparently didn't.

That's fine though. We'll save that discussion another time.

However, I am concerned about something else. Specifically what you wrote in contrast to this entire kick-down switch thing.


I’ve been out of the carb conversion practice for a couple of years, but am curently building up a small inventory of “kits” (no step-by-step illustrated instructions, but everything necessary to do a complete conversion in one box), estimated to be ready in about a month.

First off, this is precisely why years ago I told you that you needed to have an entire "how-to" guide on how to perform this conversion. You need a proven, definitive guide for any novice to complete this conversion on their own.

Second, it really doesn't sound at all like you have any "kits" here that are ready for mass distribution. Not just because you don't have the parts ready, but because you don't even have the entire proper process completed as of yet (nor perhaps the functioning knowledge of automatic cars).

Please don't get me wrong, Bill. I'm not trying to undermine your efforts. And I certainly am NOT against carburetion. It's good to have alternatives. Like I also discussed with you years ago, if the conversion procedure was properly documented and planned out, it could become a normal acceptable modification to the DeLorean. But I also don't want this to turn into another situation like those model kits that another member offered up 16 years ago, where you've promised all of these turn-key kits that are ready for everyone, and the problem is that you're not quite ready yet because of improperly set expectations, and then everyone gets mad at you. If you're going to sell a universal kit that will work on either 5-Speeds to Automatics, I would highly suggest that you first test it out and verify everything BEFORE you make it publicly available and marketed as tested and ready to go.

If you are not yet ready for anything such as parts, or especially developmental restrictions, this is something that people deserve to know. You MUST set their expectations as such so that they know what they're in for.

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 04:39 PM
Be nice.

It's been a couple of years since I've made any carb conversions (for DeLoreans -- I've done 3 trucks), so I'm a little rusty, especially on the automatics. I've only ever done 4 automatics anyway:
- Farrar Hudkins
- Del Silveira
- Garen Martens
- Chad Krause
The overwhelming majority of my conversions have been 5 speeds.

DeLorean automatics are somewhat different beasts from their contemporary domestic counterparts (solenoid shifting versus hydraulic valve body, microswitch kickdown versus a rod, governor cable, etc). I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside the DeLorean community who wouldn't have to study them pretty intensively to figure out how they work.

I've got two 5 speeds, so I'm intimately familiar with those. It's just the automatics I am a little rusty on.

You are correct that I don't have any kits ready yet. That's what I'm working on now. I used to make them two at a time, which was much more manageable. Making a dozen at one time is fantastically labor intensive. After these are gone, if I ever make any more it will definitely be two at a time again.

I was just trying to save myself the trouble of making the microswitch brackets. They are something of a PITA. For example, to cut adjusting slots for the mounting screws I have to drill adjacent holes then file out material between them (microswitch has very little throw so it needs to be adjustable front/rear for the throttle mechanism to trip it).

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 04:43 PM
Just about *EVERYTHING* on these conversions is made by hand. I even make the air filter lids myself (10" plastic lids with DeLorean stickers aren't available over the counter). Anything I can do to minimize the amount of time and effort I spend cutting and shaping is to my benefit, especially since I don't charge for my labor (welder who welded up the dual plane manifolds -- from pieces I machined myself -- told me my overall labor was worth well over a thousand dollars).

Has always mesmerized me that people bitch and complain about these conversions when I am basically giving them away for free -- all I ask is material reimbursement.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-10-2016, 05:50 PM
I'll be nice but I will just say Buyer Beware.
People can PM me if the want the entire story and to know what you are really getting into with this 'vendor' but to respect Tamir I will be nice in public. Tamir has always been very resepectful to me and I at least owe him the mutual respect.

Andrew
03-10-2016, 06:29 PM
Can I get the part number and/or cross reference for that fuel pump, please?

Also, would that mechanical fuel pump work on a 3.0L engine? (Hint, hint...)

Autozone and Rockauto are both now showing the Airtex 1436 as NLA. However, Summit can still special order it. I have been running a mechanical pump on 5052 from the first time I turned the key approximately 5,000 trouble free miles ago.

DMCVegas
03-10-2016, 06:32 PM
Be nice.

I am being nice, Bill. As I have said, I want carb conversions to be a viable option for the DeLorean. And a good process for this would be documenting a conversion. As of right now, it's just more of a niche thing. Like the Island or BAE turbochargers. Though those did have proper documentation. As my interest in carburetors being an option is as such, I also want to ensure that is carried out properly. Part of that is making sure that you don't stumble in this endeavor. If I wasn't being nice, I'd undermine you right now with that microswitch bit and the go right into that old K-Jetronic thread. That is however is for another place and time.

As of right now, I'm just trying to protect you, Bill. And more importantly, this project for viable carb conversions.

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 06:33 PM
I've only ever done 4 automatics anyway:
- Farrar Hudkins
- Del Silveira
- Garen Martens
- Chad Krause


Correction: five automatics: Jim Edwards.

I may be a little rusty here and there, but I promise you: I'm not figuring these out as I go along. I've been doing the same basic conversion since 2008.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 06:40 PM
I'm just trying to protect you, Bill.

Thank you for your concern, but I really don't need protection.

As stated, I've been doing the same basic conversion since 2008. Only changes have been extremely minor: automatic kickdown bracket has been changed to move the microswitch to the inside, dual plane throttle cable bracket are now cut and folded from one piece of metal (previously they were welded up from two pieces), etc. Manifolds themselves are virtually identical except the flanges are now cut from 3/8" thick aluminum rather than 1/4" -- everything else is the same.

I have started using clevises and shoulder bolts for automatic conversions rather than throttle balls to preserve my limited supply of plastic ends (previously I used two throttle balls for automatics).

Etc.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 06:41 PM
People can PM me if the want the entire story and to know what you are really getting into with this 'vendor' but to respect Tamir I will be nice in public. Tamir has always been very resepectful to me and I at least owe him the mutual respect.

Or you can just go to the other forum and read for yourself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
03-10-2016, 06:45 PM
Fair enough.

Quick question about those 5 previous automatic cars you worked on. Since they were not equipped with kickdown functions for their automatic transmissions, will those cars be retrofitted in hindsight? How did you wire up those existing microswitches instead?

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 06:52 PM
Fair enough.

Quick question about those 5 previous automatic cars you worked on. Since they were not equipped with kickdown functions for their automatic transmissions, will those cars be retrofitted in hindsight? How did you wire up those existing microswitches instead?

They *WERE* equipped with kickdown brackets. This is Chad's carb (microswitch is on the inside of the bracket -- you can see the wires sticking out. Farrar's was the only one on the outside of the bracket):

40737

I was just trying to save myself a little labor. Had I known all the fuss it would create I just would have made the brackets.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-10-2016, 06:57 PM
Or you can just go to the other forum and read for yourself.

Bill Robertson
#5939
Yes but being that im being censored to protect Bill and my posts were deleted. PM me or call me to a full explanation. Just helping owners know the pros AND cons.

There are several owners who had very similar experiences to mine. One in NY and one in Texas to name just a few.

Just trying to inform everyone. After all it's nice to have ALL the information, not just the vendor's biased side of the story.

Lou and "Boo"
03-10-2016, 06:58 PM
They *WERE* equipped with kickdown brackets. This is Chad's carb (microswitch is on the inside of the bracket -- you can see the wires sticking out. Farrar's was the only one on the outside of the bracket):

40737

I was just trying to save myself a little labor. Had I known all the fuss it would create I just would have made the brackets.

Bill Robertson
#5939

And on Today you will find the problem Chad has with his carb setup on the automatic. Don't worry Bill, I'll be here to inform owners of the complete truth since you refuse to.

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 07:03 PM
This is the little bracket that is causing so much unhappiness:

40738

I keep one on hand at all times to use as a pattern.

As stated, I need to make at least three of these things for the latest conversions. For their diminutive size they take a surprisingly long time to make. Holes have to be drilled extremely precisely.

Next time I'm keeping my mouth shut and just making the brackets.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 07:17 PM
And on Today you will find the problem Chad has with his carb setup on the automatic. Don't worry Bill, I'll be here to inform owners of the complete truth since you refuse to.

Louis, you really need to keep the foolishness on the other forum.

As far as Chad's car not running right, this video indicates otherwise (fast forward to 3:02 to watch the car accelerate):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmH0Ag3WVP8

Chad is unhappy with the slow acceleration, but there's nothing I can do about that -- automatics are slower than 5 speeds.

Chad does have his shift point cable set pretty low, but again there's nothing I can do about that -- each owner is responsible for setting his own shift point cable. All I can do is provide a clevis and a threaded hole to attach it to. Personally I'd set the cable to shift at least 3,500 RPM. I believe Darrin has Ellon's cable set close to 5,000 RPM. If Chad were to raise the shift points he'd get slightly better acceleration.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-10-2016, 07:54 PM
I just want to be clear here I am not trolling bill all I am doing is helping owners get full information which Bill does not give. I am trying to let owners be fully informed before they get involved with Bill Robertson and his carb conversions. I have said nothing nasty nor personal it is all backed and based on my experience with this man and the mechanics of the conversion .

There is absolutely no customer service and any problems that you have he will blame it on everything else and deny it has anything to do with his product even when it obviously does. In my situation he admitted they were problems with the carburetor and then sent me another carburetor that was slightly different and when I asked him why the car wouldn't run right he started blaming everything except for the carburetor when the carburetor was the only thing that was changed. This was all after I had an issue with my alternator overcharging. After changing the alternator my car ran fine however once I put the second carburetor on the car did not accelerate and had a lean drop at idle to open throttle. Bill started by talking about the full throttle enrichment valve but then went on to blame everything else on the carand changed his tune not admitting that it was a problem and then refusing to help me or speak to me at all. If this post gets deleted but it just proves Bill has something to hide. Buyer beware.
You will not get any help no respect if you run into any issues at all. As Robert said documented information would be great but Bill wants everyone to depend on him so that he can play God and disrespect everyone and not help them at all. My car's performance went from awesome to crap and now in stuck like that with no help from him. This isn't even half the story, I could go on and on with the disrespectful insulting emails and all of the childish games he plays.
I feel I am doing potential carb conversion owners a service by stating my experiences. The truth may not be nice (not in this case) but it IS the truth after all.

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 08:05 PM
Another video of Chad's car (fast forward to 2:38 -- he starts the car, backs it into the driveway, lets it idle for a few minutes, then pulls it back into the garage):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8vvPZZmkg

There definitely are some personality problems on the other forum, but those do not in any way contradict the way Chad's car appears to run in these videos.

Chad is using Louis' previous intake manifold with a replacement carb (Louis' car is a 5 speed, Chad's is an automatic -- previous carb did not have provision to pull on the shift point cable so I swapped them out).

I was not present for the installation but Steve Rice was. As I understand it some of the hold down bolts snapped off, and they went off center drilling them out, but as you can clearly see from its rock smooth idle they managed to get the new manifold vacuum tight.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-10-2016, 08:22 PM
Most of my experience can be seen over on Today, but with NightFlyer as a mod. My posts are now being deleted. PM me for full info.

Once Bill swapped my carb out due to faulty stripped jet threads, my car is a slug now with the replacement carb. I tried to ask for help to figure it out but Bill ridiculed me in public and insulted my intelligence and mechanical ability.

I did rebuild and swap a supercharged engine in my Fiero by myself thank you very much.
Not bragging but I'm far from feeble with mechanics.

All I wanted to know was what the difference between the two carbs were so I could make the replacement operate the same as the original , but I was insulted and ignored instead.
This is what you are in for !

I, as well as many others, fully regret getting involved with this 'vendor'.
In my opinion he isn't playing who a full deck, but this is obvious from his banning here due to his own actions.

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 08:35 PM
Louis, please try to control yourself on this forum.

You have two of my carburetors already -- I am not sending you a third (in fact you need to make up your mind which one to keep and which one to send back). Both carbs performed identically on my own car. Whatever problems you are having most likely are not fuel delivery related. Personally I think you damaged something on the ignition side when your voltage regulator failed and you were running more than 20 volts through the car (Louis had an externally regulated alternator, since swapped out for one of the internally regulated xRef's).

As far as assistance is concerned: you yourself said our relationship was permanently severed. I am simply honoring your exact words.

FWIW: you really need to keep personal attacks on the other forum.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-10-2016, 08:43 PM
No personal attack here. Just stating the Facts of my experience to warn other potential clients of your so they are fully informed of what they are getting into, because there are MANY cons.

And for the record , that relationship severing happened due to being ridiculed which was months after I was asking for information from you.

My car was soooo fast with the Peugeot manifold and the first carb, then Bill sent a new carb, nothing else changed and now the car dogs with a bad lean drop so it won't accelerate.

I have swapped my coil with a pertronix flame thrower as bill suggested, (and is what he runs) but the car still dogs because it IS the carb.

What Bill us leaving out is that he test drove the carbs on a different type of manifold on his car, and later admitted that it may not be right for my manifold. Of course all of that admittance was in a private email and all of his denial and most of his ridicule was displayed on a public forum.

Again,
Being honest. I gave nothing personal against Bill. But I do have something professional/mechanical against him because he screwed up my car and now refuses to even help try to figure out what he did.

Also, I never asked for a third carb but Bill keeps saying I'm not getting one so that he can remain with the upper hand in his mind. All I ever asked for was information on how I can make the car run right again.

Word to the wise, beware.

P.S. I don't see where I was out if control at all, but again , it's one of Bill's ways to subtly insult his customers.

Personal ribbings are purely in good fun. My experience sure isn't fun.

DMCVegas
03-10-2016, 09:18 PM
There definitely are some personality problems on the other forum, but those do not in any way contradict the way Chad's car appears to run in these videos.

That is true. Chad does indeed confirm that the car runs well as per his Craigslist ad where he is selling it.

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5472425024.html

Lou and "Boo"
03-10-2016, 09:27 PM
Oh if I could only post what people are now PMing me...

More negative experiences similar to mine, but I have to respect their privacy.

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 10:02 PM
That is true. Chad does indeed confirm that the car runs well as per his Craigslist ad where he is selling it.

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5472425024.html

He confirms it in his own videos: "just waiting for the light to change; as you can hear, the carb runs great."

The way Chad's car starts, runs, and shuts off indicates the manifold is vacuum tight. I'm sure the frigged up bolt holes may require a little more positioning care, but he's obviously managed to tighten it down leak free.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-10-2016, 10:07 PM
That is true. Chad does indeed confirm that the car runs well as per his Craigslist ad where he is selling it.

http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5472425024.html

Minor error in the ad: Chad's carb is late 70's to mid 80's Motorcraft (2150). It's based on the original Autolite 2100, but there are nuanced differences.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Rob_In_Houston
03-13-2016, 11:06 AM
Chad said that he regrets his conversion because of Bill. Has Chad has feuded with everyone selling parts or is Bill a problem? I was told that this is the cheapest route and to stay away from Bill. Has anyone else had the same? Lou here has had a problem with Bill? Why was Bill and Chad banned?

I want to do my research to make a 20k car happen. Is this a good idea? These cars sit for lots of time. I know carbs can do that. Fuel injection can't. Why should I use a carb? Is the fuel injection bad?

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 02:55 PM
Chad didn't buy anything from me -- he bought an intake manifold, a carburetor, and a throttle cable bracket from Louis Duet. That's it. I made him other elements of a carb conversion after the fact, but he still hasn't paid me for those yet.

Don't know what kind of alternate reality holds me accountable for parts bought from Louis, but Chad definitely dwells there. Kind of like holding McDonald's accountable because Burger King didn't give him fries with his Burger.

Let's be totally clear here: Chad purchased parts from Louis Duet, not Bill Robertson.

Chad does have parts from Bill Robertson, but he never paid for those, so technically he never purchased them -- until payment is received, he stole them.

Chad is a very difficult person to deal with. IIRC he tried to sue Josh Bengston. He definitely has a bad entitlement complex. Somewhere on the other forum is a thread where he got mad at me because I wouldn't travel half way across the country to work on his car (in his mind the fact he would pay for the plane ticket is all that mattered -- as if my time and energy had no value).

And this is the kicker: Chad bought his parts from Louis Duet -- if Chad is going to demand someone to come work on his car (or make a bunch of free parts), it should be Louis, not me.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-13-2016, 03:32 PM
I just need to interject and point something out. I have to call bullshit on Bill . Bill has posted publicly that Chad bought his conversion from me which absolutely never happened. The only thing Chad is ever given to me other than good times, good friendship, and service to our my country was a 12 pack of Mr. Pibb for helping him arrange the purple car sale.

Lou and "Boo"
03-13-2016, 03:36 PM
Speaking from my experience and viewing the experiences of many many members here Bill Robertson has a sordid past has been banned and comes back and lies and acts like a petulant child to everyone who does not feel the same way he does or does not go along with his lies.
This has been the experience that I've had with Bill Robertson when I first bought a DeLorean back in 2011 people had already warned me that he had this past I didn't listen to them and now I regret it. word to the wise.

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 03:56 PM
Louis, please try to control yourself on this forum.

Is Chad running your old intake manifold? If so, I rest my case.

Is Chad running your old throttle cable bracket? If so, I rest my case.

Is Chad running a replacement carburetor I swaped out because your old carburetor (the one he bought from you) wasn't set up for an automatic transmission? If so, I rest my case.

Chad also has a bunch of new parts, sent because Louis kept his fuel pump and carrier, air filter & lid, charcoal canister blockoff plate, etc -- those are the additional parts I made for Chad, for which payment has yet to be received. I also am awaiting payment for additional parts necessary for the auto trans carb (the one I swapped out for Louis' old carb).

Interesting sidenote: Chad refused to send back Louis' old carb for about a year. His reasoning: he was holding it hostage to force me to help him with his car (I didn't need the old carb *THAT* bad). This is all documented on the other forum.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 04:07 PM
BTW: Admins may want to investigate new account Rob_In_Houston -- it looks suspiciously like a Louis Duet troll account.

Roy Hinkley is the name of Louis Duet's troll account on the other forum -- it could be a troll account over here as well.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-13-2016, 04:09 PM
I think it's a good thing that people can see exactly how delusional you are Mr. Robertson. You took the manifold that was on my car and sold it to Chad. End of story. Does that mean that whoever's car the Peugeot manifold was on before mine means that I bought it from them? Obviously not, this is absolutely insane whereas no money nor anything else was ever given to me for the carburetor set up that you had me hand it to Chad in front of your face so that you didn't have to ship one from your house to him. It was a matter of a convenience but it was still a sale between you and him. It was never an agreement between Chad and I'll about the carburetor set up or otherwise it was the first time I've ever met him and it was the last time that I ever trusted you in anyway. On the way home that day you made phone calls behind my back and then called me in a crazy rant insulting me and ever since then it's been nothing but a problem. This is the absolute truth of my experience Mr. Robertson. I am not out of control whatsoever I'm stating the absolute truth and reality. Unlike your twisted truth where I sale transaction happened that never did.
When you sent me my Peugeot manifold and carb and I installed that, I was going to ship back the manifold and carb to you but you told me to hold onto it because you were coming up anyway to help Chad with the purple car. Once Chad was here and you spoke with him you instructed me to go into the backyard and get the homemade manifold and carb out of the shed and put it in Chad's truck so you didn't have to ship one to him from your house to save shipping costs. This is the absolute truth for everyone to see. I am nobody else but Lou and "Boo" and RoyHinkley who is on moderated status. I am not using any other accounts on either forum. I have nothing to hide.

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 04:19 PM
FWIW: Louis just posted a message on the other forum openly acknowledging that Roy Hinkey is a DMCTalk troll account: "The only accounts I have on Today and on Talk is Lou and "Boo" and RoyHinkley" (http://www.dmctoday.com/showthread.php?2102-DMCToday&p=51092&viewfull=1#post51092)

Admins may want to examine status of that other forum. It currently is in a state of meltdown, in no small part due to out of control troll activity. That is the largest single reason I abandoned ship and came over here. It is in everyone's best interest to make sure troll activity doesn't spiral out of control.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-13-2016, 04:39 PM
OK I admit right Hinckley was my account if that calls for a ban then band me but that's the only thing that I've ever done never lied about anything at all

Rob_In_Houston
03-13-2016, 04:43 PM
http://imgur.com/YIh91mN

Rob_In_Houston
03-13-2016, 06:55 PM
I will pay more for fuel injection parts. I see what Chad said about Bill. I ask to see if what Chad says is true and get attacked. Is that how this forum is? I may not be a forum guy.

DMCMW Dave
03-13-2016, 07:01 PM
Is that how this forum is? .

Only a very small corner of it.

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 07:04 PM
Please read this post (#26): http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?13269-Carb-Conversion-quot-Kits-quot-ETA-March-April-2016&p=191584&viewfull=1#post191584

Carburetion is not for everybody.

The worst case scenario is an owner who sticks a carb on his car without understanding what he is doing. I've had a couple of apples out of that barrel before, including Chad Krause.

What is particularly puzzling to me is Chad's inconsistent statements between YouTube and the other forum. On YouTube he extols the virtue of his carburetor, which does run quite well (I've captured Chad's YouTube videos -- later tonight I will edit them down to just parts that show his carb in operation). But on the other forum Chad claims that his carburetor doesn't work at all and it's all my fault. Very baffling -- video footage does not match his public pronouncements whatsoever.

Anyway, if you would rather stick with K-Jet, that's totally fine with me. Carb owners are in a minority already -- one less isn't going to make any difference.

Perhaps you should make some entreaties to the EFI crowd.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Rob_In_Houston
03-13-2016, 07:18 PM
>content22207_2
Chad said he likes the carb. He recommended a carb for a stick. His complaint is the linkage setup. I had never heard of a De Lorean with that setup before the forums.

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 07:31 PM
If you are talking about the shift point cable then you are absolutely correct -- that is a DeLorean only nuance you won't find on any of its domestic contemporaries.

One of the reasons automatic owners ask me to provide carburetors for them is not all carburetors have provision to pull on that cable. For example, the carburetor Chad purchased from Louis Duet did not have it (Louis' car is a 5 speed). I rebuilt an automatic compatible carb for Chad and swapped them out. Took Chad about 18 months to return Louis' carb, but he finally did so. I am still awaiting payment for clevises and shoulder bolts.

Farrar Hudkins has an automatic DeLorean with a carburetor if you'd like more information. And Derrin Ruschell will be soon be getting an automatic compatible conversion to test drive on his wife's car. Jim Edwards has an automatic conversion if he's on this forum (owner in Raleigh -- he attends Darren Decker's gatherings so Darren might have contact info).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Rich_NYS
03-13-2016, 08:04 PM
Is that how this forum is? I may not be a forum guy.

Rob,

Most of the time the forums are a great place to get connected with others & share info. What you're seeing isn't the norm, and [I think] more a case of bad timing that it surfaced around the same time you joined.....it's just a storm, and it will pass. Please try not to get discouraged...stick around a while and I think you'll be glad you did. I've been an owner for only a few years and have received much helpful info from the other owners & vendors who frequent the forums.

BTW, I currently have a carb setup on the car I'm restoring. I haven't yet decided if I'll return to fuel-injection or not (I have all the components plus a spare engine.) I have driven Bill's carbed 5-speed within hours of driving a fuel-injected 5-speed, it ran nice and I enjoyed driving it.

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 08:11 PM
Assistance isn't just limited to online interactions. DeLorean owners often travel to one another's houses for on site assistance. For example, even though Louis Duet lives 1,000 miles away from me, I've been to his house half a dozen times to work on his car in person. I also drove up there in a service truck to help Chad Krause load a DeLorean onto a trailer that unfortunately turned out far too rusty to restore (I am on the right):

http://www.dmctoday.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2472&d=1405194954

Online forums are great repositories of information, and they allow you to interact with people around the globe, but they really are just the tip of assistance available.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-13-2016, 09:24 PM
Correction:
Bill had been to my house 3 times. I always thanked him and still do for his early years. He did help me with many things including dying my carpets black for me. I have nothing to hide. I admired Bill and still do for his technical wisdom and ingenuity. I'm not happy that things went sour but when I had the issue with the second carb I emails him and he ignored it so after a few emails asking for help I posted my problem on the forum and that's when all the personal stuff started to be unleashed on me.
I never meant to embarrass Bill or anything I want nothing more than to have my carb to run the way it did with the first Carberator on the peugot manifold and give bill's carb back and to return bill's carb to him. But I don't know it very well so trying to figure it out is gonna to take time. I do have a family and I don't have all my time dedicated to working on cars and I actually just broke my foot so I can't drive the car (5spd) so Bill will have to exercise some patience, j know it's been a while and I'd apologize for that but I started out nicely asking for help and then he unleashed so I reatilstedcsndbthings got out if hand back and forth.
But I cannot trust him after all the lies. I never sold anything at all to Chad . I am not the Rob in Houston account. Give the guy a break, everyone attacks him saying he's he no wonder new owners are grin turned away , it's not because Bill screwed me , it's not because I put an honest review of my real experiences that happen to ge against the seller, it because there are some regulatory issues over on today (being nice) and even here (not so much lately)people jump all over everyone and never give anyone the benefit of the doubt.
Bill WAS very nice to me and then I honestly think he got offended that I posted my carb issue on the public forum he went berserk, and that's the way he's always been since then and I'm stuck figuring this out on my own or spending more money for someone to make it right. I don't feel I should have to do that . It's like i went over his head and he got insulted and it was downhill from there with insults and the like.
Just want the truth to be told. People need to educate themselves with complete information. I think Tamir would appreciate people knowing the whole truth.

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 09:47 PM
Louis very publicly severed all contact with me on the other forum. It probably is best if he does the same on this forum.

Louis has two carburetors, one paid for and one on loan. Between both of them he, or an outside mechanic of his choice (Louis lives down the road from Allstate Carburetors: www.allcarbs.com), can certainly assemble a carb to his liking, after which the unused casting and parts can be returned to me.

Because Louis has very publicly severed all contact with me, that is of course not something I am eligible to do for him.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-13-2016, 10:03 PM
But again, helping me figure out the issue wasn't something you were doing long before that linking severing of aquaintence.
I will leave now, my story is done.
I will only come back to correct the lies and inconsistencies made by Bill.
That is unless he has me banned in the meantime.

content22207_2
03-13-2016, 10:03 PM
I am sure all the personal bickering that is spilling over from that other forum is very confusing to Talk members trying to make rational and reasonable decisions.

To date I have helped 18 owners convert to carburetion. Louis Duet and Chad Krause are the only two to complain (Chad being a particularly odd case because on video his car runs just fine, and he extols his carburetor -- I suspect his complaints are personal, not carb related at all).

Please accept my apologies on Louis' and Chad's behalf. I sincerely hope bickering will not continue on this forum. It is highly counter productive.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-13-2016, 10:06 PM
Carry on now that everyone is fully informed and the playing field is clear.

Good luck to all.

My words are a fair and honest review from a real life paying customer , not personal bickering.

Lou and "Boo"
03-14-2016, 08:48 AM
To answer a request from DMC today administrator, I have been asked to post that any and all deleted posts have been reinstated.

Carry on :)

DMCVegas
03-14-2016, 12:33 PM
I will pay more for fuel injection parts. I see what Chad said about Bill. I ask to see if what Chad says is true and get attacked. Is that how this forum is? I may not be a forum guy.

Truth? You walked in on an ongoing drama which involves many people, and has lasted for many, many years now.

The forum is a great advantage to ownership. You have a massive archive of past questions that have been answered, and anything that you do not see, you can ask and usually get a quick answer in no time flat. Along those lines too we also have some great social aspects too of where we can communicate back and forth about offline events and whatnot. Being in Houston is a perfect example of the tech days that get held, along with parades and other gatherings and whatnot. You can find more information here:

http://www.citizenkidd.com/dmc/pages/home.asp

And likewise the DOA will probably be of a good advantage for you as well. Things have been rather quiet with the club for a while, but they're looking to liven up in the very near future for sure.

http://www.deloreanowners.org/

I don't care what the subject is, anytime you participate in online message boards, there will always be drama somewhere, in some corner of that site. Comparatively, the DeLorean marque's online community presence is actually one of the oldest on the internet. The group of people you see now go back to the mid 1990's where we started out on USENET. From there the DML was born, and many people took on projects to help the community. From cross-referencing databases, to scanning parts manuals, organizing tech tips, and especially moderating that old list. And it helped to further offline communications.

Comparatively, the group that comes to closest to the DeLorean community is the Miata group. And that's mainly just do to their sheer numbers. VWVortex comes close too. In terms of drama and arguing though, this site is like Romper Room compared to others. But again, we're all pretty tight-knit as a group here. People do come and go, but hell, I'm coming up on my 20th year of being apart of the online DeLorean community. And if I've learned anything, it's that these fights don't last.

Lou and "Boo"
03-14-2016, 12:47 PM
Truth? You walked in on an ongoing drama which involves many people, and has lasted for many, many years now.

The forum is a great advantage to ownership. You have a massive archive of past questions that have been answered, and anything that you do not see, you can ask and usually get a quick answer in no time flat. Along those lines too we also have some great social aspects too of where we can communicate back and forth about offline events and whatnot. Being in Houston is a perfect example of the tech days that get held, along with parades and other gatherings and whatnot. You can find more information here:

http://www.citizenkidd.com/dmc/pages/home.asp

And likewise the DOA will probably be of a good advantage for you as well. Things have been rather quiet with the club for a while, but they're looking to liven up in the very near future for sure.

http://www.deloreanowners.org/

I don't care what the subject is, anytime you participate in online message boards, there will always be drama somewhere, in some corner of that site. Comparatively, the DeLorean marque's online community presence is actually one of the oldest on the internet. The group of people you see now go back to the mid 1990's where we started out on USENET. From there the DML was born, and many people took on projects to help the community. From cross-referencing databases, to scanning parts manuals, organizing tech tips, and especially moderating that old list. And it helped to further offline communications.

Comparatively, the group that comes to closest to the DeLorean community is the Miata group. And that's mainly just do to their sheer numbers. VWVortex comes close too. In terms of drama and arguing though, this site is like Romper Room compared to others. But again, we're all pretty tight-knit as a group here. People do come and go, but hell, I'm coming up on my 20th year of being apart of the online DeLorean community. And if I've learned anything, it's that these fights don't last.

+1
I agree with everything said here.

DMCVegas
03-14-2016, 01:13 PM
Carburetion is not for everybody.

That certainly is the case, Bill. But you do need to be a bit more explicit than that. Carburetion isn't for everyone for two big facts. The first are the consequences of carburetion.

If you live in an area that doesn't require emissions testing, you're fine using a carb. But if your area DOES require testing, or if you even have the possibility of relocating to an area that does require testing, you absolutely shouldn't get involved with a carburetor. In California and Nevada for example, after they enter your VIN into the system to conduct your smog check, the very first thing that they do is pop the hood (or in our cases engine covers) and look for this:

http://images.wikia.com/deloreantech/images/f/f6/VacuumRoutingDiagram.png

They have to check the vacuum diagram to first ensure that it is present, and will then verify that all of the vacuum hoses are in place for the Emissions Control Equipment. Which if memory serves, not only does this carb kit NOT have any provisions for vacuum lines to connect to the charcoal canister, but it has been advised to people in the past to remove the canister entirely and just vent it out into the atmosphere, along with the Crank Case too if memory serves. Even if you connected those lines, it still doesn't match what is on that diagram and would result in an immediate testing failure. Even in states like Nevada that DO give certain exemptions for classic cars, the car has to pass at least one single emissions test to be granted an operating exemption, and can still be summoned to the state Smog Lab for an inspection at any time.

And aside from the negative impact upon the environment of just venting gasoline vapors out, there are also some other serious concerns. First off is how much more that is going to cost you. Both in terms of fuel lost to evaporation, to damage to your fuel pump and prematurely clogged filters from all the dust and dirt that can contaminate your fuel by way of that line. Then you also have to worry about Fire Risk from Spiders.

So no, a carb conversion most certainly is NOT for everyone. There are a few serious things to think about before you consider it.



The worst case scenario is an owner who sticks a carb on his car without understanding what he is doing.


Assistance isn't just limited to online interactions. DeLorean owners often travel to one another's houses for on site assistance.

Which brings up the best part of this entire thing here. People NEED a proper, permanent guide. I know that you have sacrificed so very much, Bill, to go out of your way to drive to people's homes to help them. And that's nice. But there are times that you're not going to be able to do that. Sometimes like with Chad and Lou here, people have a falling out. Sometimes like me, I don't want people over at my house. Even if you are on good terms, what happens when you die, Bill? Who will help them then? And that's the crux of this entire thing: People need a complete guide for Carburetor Conversions. Not just on how to install them, but on how to properly tune them with an Infrared Gas Analyzer, or even just an O2 sensor. Then they need to know how to do things like troubleshoot exhaust gas ratios, and how to determine when, and what size jets to swap out, etc. They cannot be left on their own to just figure it out. And if you've EVER in your life ever used a manual to troubleshoot or repair something, you know how valuable that documentation is.

Farrar
03-14-2016, 01:35 PM
One of the frequently-cited sources of information for stock DeLoreans is the workshop manual. There are also books on Bosch fuel injection which owners have recommended to other owners. Similarly, there are books available which could help a user set up and tune a carburetor. Before I considered replacing my malfunctioning K-Jet system with a 2150 setup, I consulted a book on auto repair and tune-up from the 1960s. It had an entire chapter on carburetors, from theory to operation and tuning. That helped me make up my mind.

A Google search for "carburetor setup" turns up many useful results. (This one includes photographs (http://www.wikihow.com/Adjust-a-Carburetor). This one uses a vacuum gauge (http://classicinlines.com/vacuum.asp). This one is specific to the Motorcraft 2150 (http://grantorinosport.org/BubbaF250/carb/carb02.html).) The last time a thread was started here on DMCTalk along the lines of "Q&A for carburetion," it ended up not being so useful in the long run. Meanwhile, no one seems to have made a specific "How to" thread for converting from K-Jet to carburetion via Motorcraft 2150 and one of Bill's bespoke manifolds. Perhaps the next owner to perform the conversion can snap pics and do a write-up. That might satisfy the craving for DMCTalk-hosted documentation. (I'd do it myself, but my conversion is already done. And I don't have the time for such a project right now. Doing a proper writeup takes a lot more time and effort than one might initially think if one has not yet done such a thing.)

I won't get involved in any feuds or troll-feeding, but I am willing to answer questions, to the best of my knowledge, about carburetor conversion on an automatic DeLorean. Mine was converted in 2008. I don't know everything, but I'm willing to share what I know.

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 02:03 PM
DML

DML is still alive & kicking. It started as an eMail digest, and that is still an option, but people accustomed to online forum formats would probably prefer accessing the DML via its Yahoo interface (not 100% identical to an online forum, but reasonably close): https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dmcnews/info

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-14-2016, 02:39 PM
Bill, can you please tell if both of the carb's I have (yes, one will be sent back to you) are 2100s or 2150s?



Getting an education on the carb and trying to figure it out alone is what is making me hesitant. I don't want to mess anything up. I am determined to get your carb back asap but first I need to know what exact model I am dealing with.
I am also replacing all ignition components in the engine compartment as you suggested the issue maybe ignition, even though it happened directly from swapping from one carb to the next.

I think that that first carb had the full throttle enrichment valve blocked off and the replacement carb had it installed. I don't see how the full throttle enrichment valve would cause bad sputtery hesitation from say idle to mid pedal, but I don't know how it all works. I know you don't want to help me but it's really helping both of us.
Thank you Bill !
And I repeat what Bill says and I fully agree. Don't make the mistake I did and be uneducated to your carb. Educate yourself on the workings of the Carberator so you won't be stuck with an issue that you don't understand, like I am.
Louis

If Bill doesn't offer information and anyone else is comfortable with these carbs, please help. It may be a choke adjustment or even the fact that the new carb had smaller jets that may be too small given I am using the peugot manifold even though it test drove ok on Bill's Volvo manifold.

I am just trying to remedy my car and my ongoing dispute with Bill. Trying to get his carb back asap.

No trolling , no libelous comments ... I think we can all see that.

Thank you all.

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 03:03 PM
Definitely never should have helped owners in person (free of charge, thank you very much) -- that's come back to haunt me with a vengeance. Definitely doesn't pay to be nice. I have learned my lesson: in the future I will sell parts only -- it's up to buyers to know what they are doing. I will continue to provide information of course (I give copious annotated pictures like this:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/374049_273043672740890_205508091_n.jpg?oh=01bd2461 5e88031981f56ebb242532a6&oe=578F2A4C

And I will provide textual assistance (answer questions), but my days of helping owners in person are over.

If nothing else, it gives owners a bad entitlement complex -- they *EXPECT* you to come to their house, and get mad if you don't. Does anybody get mad at James Espy if he doesn't come to their house?

Speaking of which: When DMCH sells you a water pump, they assume you know what to do with they thing. Unless there's something wrong with the pump itself, if an owner screws up his water pump install, that isn't Houston's fault.

When Betty Crocker sells you cake mix, it's up to you not to burn the cake.

Chad and Louis are the first owners to burn me in terms of hands on assistance (in Chad's case he got pissed off I wouldn't travel all the way to Texas -- as you can see in the videos his install went perfectly well using pictures and text answers, but he remains pissed off still).

Speaking of Chad, here's the excerpted video I promised. As you can plainly see, his car runs just fine. Chad is pissed off to be certain, but he can't be pissed off about the carb conversion itself:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG0JjhCGCv0

I probably should walk away from the money he still owes me. As Josh Bengston discovered, it's best to take a financial loss and sever all contact with Chad.

Anyway, progress continues on these next conversions. If you know what you are doing, and can install one without chasing me around the Internet like a crazy ex girlfriend, I am more than happy to sell you all the pieces. I will provide copious annotated pictures like this:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/383359_273043502740907_1658505921_n.jpg?oh=0ce18bc 41845d0608b0daff05f464ffa&oe=5797FE86

I will answer any and all questions in text. But don't expect me to come to your house, or think you deserve it. You're getting plenty of uncompensated labor in the parts already.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 03:16 PM
Bill, can you please tell if both of the carb's I have (yes, one will be sent back to you) are 2100s or 2150s?

You have 2100's. All my Peugeot manifold conversions use 2100's.

Only differences between 2100 and 2150:
- 2150 has external choke pulloff (some 2100's have external pulloffs as well, but I only use 2100's with integrated pulloffs for ignition distributor clearance)
- 2150 throttle plates sit in recesses in the throttle shaft rather than slots
- 2150's have variable air bleeds (baseball bat shaped rods raised and lowered by a cam on the throttle shaft)

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 03:51 PM
If you live in an area that doesn't require emissions testing, you're fine using a carb. But if your area DOES require testing, or if you even have the possibility of relocating to an area that does require testing, you absolutely shouldn't get involved with a carburetor. In California and Nevada for example, after they enter your VIN into the system to conduct your smog check, the very first thing that they do is pop the hood (or in our cases engine covers) and look for this:

http://images.wikia.com/deloreantech/images/f/f6/VacuumRoutingDiagram.png

40812

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
03-14-2016, 03:55 PM
DML is still alive & kicking. It started as an eMail digest, and that is still an option, but people accustomed to online forum formats would probably prefer accessing the DML via its Yahoo interface (not 100% identical to an online forum, but reasonably close): https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dmcnews/info

Bill Robertson
#5939

I never said the DML is gone. What I said was that it was apart of the DeLorean community's evolving online presence.

The DML isn't an email digest. That is merely how it was setup pre-e-groups (which was acquired by Yahoo! later on) in a form of it's original USENET format of threads. A topic was posted, and then all replies were submitted to create individual threads. Subscription options via e-mail were either in multiple real-time individual message throughout the day, or a daily summary which was the digest. But it has always remained a Mailing List, and not a digest.

Since USENET access required more technical know-how to access (less after Eternal September, but some still needed), that was a contributing factor as to why so many DeLorean owners were so technical to begin with, and helped go a VERY long way into organizing the shared data, and ultimately the community to this very day. Most of our growing pains were long sorted out before other marques even thought about maintaining message boards.

Except for a handful of people that keep recycling the same discord and chaos over and over again...

Lou and "Boo"
03-14-2016, 04:01 PM
You have 2100's. All my Peugeot manifold conversions use 2100's.

Only differences between 2100 and 2150:
- 2150 has external choke pulloff (some 2100's have external pulloffs as well, but I only use 2100's with integrated pulloffs for ignition distributor clearance)
- 2150 throttle plates sit in recesses in the throttle shaft rather than slots
- 2150's have variable air bleeds (baseball bat shaped rods raised and lowered by a cam on the throttle shaft)

Bill Robertson
#5939


Thank you Bill. Now we can get somewhere and make progress in 'making amends'.

One thing holding me up is this damn broken foot due to a fall at Camelbacks indoor waterpark last Saturday. And I'm replacing ignition components to isolate the problem but I don't know how to do the duraspark module so I'll use my oem one, I hope that isn't an issue.

DMCVegas
03-14-2016, 04:08 PM
40812

Bill Robertson
#5939

Yep, that is tampering, and highly illegal as all hell too. You are defeating the emissions control devices that the DMC-12 came equipped with, AND on top of that you're forging EPA-approved labels, and they can come after you for that.

https://www.fbi.gov/lasvegas/press-releases/2013/air-duct-company-and-its-owner-sentenced-for-selling-diluted-pesticide-with-forged-labels

I'm telling you, Bill, you're playing with fire on this. What you are posting online is admissible in court as evidence against you. And just because you're some small-time guy running this business out of your home, that doesn't mean that you're immune because you're too small to go after. You're risking allot here, and neither good intentions nor ignorance of the law will grant you immunity.

Lou and "Boo"
03-14-2016, 04:09 PM
Oh and Bill in my case, helping me in person wasn't the issue. It was more of an issue that you werent around when I put the replacement carb on and the fact that I asked you to diagnose it from states away.
I'm not saying you are to blame for not being there when I swapped carbs, I didn't expect you to come to me for that, but it is probably somethingyou could have remedied immediately with your knowledge and with the turn of a screwdriver, or if I can quote bill correctly 'a dime', as far as the mixture screw goes . And I know that's only an idle adjustment, that much I do know. And it's from listening to you!

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 04:18 PM
I'm telling you, Bill, you're playing with fire on this.

With Duke Power pouring coal ash into all our rivers, I think the EPA has bigger concerns.

If deviating from stock configuration poses a moral dilemma, by all means do not convert your car to carburetion. That certainly is a consideration to factor, alongside carburetion's other pros and cons.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-14-2016, 04:23 PM
With Duke Power pouring coal ash into all our rivers, I think the EPA has bigger concerns.

If deviating from stock configuration poses a moral dilemma, by all means do not convert your car to carburetion. That certainly is a consideration to factor, alongside carburetion's other pros and cons.

Bill Robertson
#5939
Well said Bill !

DMCVegas
03-14-2016, 04:23 PM
I have learned my lesson: in the future I will sell parts only -- it's up to buyers to know what they are doing.


Speaking of which: When DMCH sells you a water pump, they assume you know what to do with they thing. Unless there's something wrong with the pump itself, if an owner screws up his water pump install, that isn't Houston's fault.

And there is your big problem, Bill. You see, there is one HUGE difference between DMCH and you. And it's this right here:

https://store.delorean.com/images/Product/large/manualsbundle.jpg

DMCH has a Workshop Manual that you can acquire from them to know how to work on the car. It gives instructions, tool recommendations, specific parts lists, and best of all exact specifications for you to tune your car. Car maintenance and repair isn't an art in the least. Just follow the directions, and you're done. But you don't have any directions at all. In your scenario, DMCH can easily sell you a water pump with no problem because if you don't know how to install it, they have a Workshop Manual that explains to you how to do it. Hell, they even have a fully licenced garage to perform the work for you if you so request it.

You on the other hand are selling "kits" and then leaving people high and dry. You don't educate them on their purchases before hand, and now you want to offer minimal support after. I'm sure that if DMCH sold someone some parts, and when that person called back with questions a DMCH rep on the other end berated them for not being smart enough to know how to do the work, they'd probably be in the same boat as you are right now with angry people.

Simply put, DMCH doesn't have the problems that you do, because they didn't create the problems that you created.

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 04:29 PM
This is getting ridiculous.

You act as if I invented carburetion, or as if I was the first person ever to put a carburetor on a car.

I make intake manifolds, same as Edelbrock and Weiand. When you buy an Edelbrock intake manifold the thing shows up in a box. Edelbrock assumes you know how to bolt it on.

Same with the carb. When you buy a rebuilt carb from Champion or Nation Rebuilders, it shows up in a box. They assume you know how to bolt it on.

On the old .com you complained very loudly that I wasn't providing step by step illustrated instructions. That's not my target audience. If you don't know how to bolt down an intake manifold, please don't buy anything from me.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 04:33 PM
I rebuild carburetors that were previously installed on Ford or AMC automobiles:
a) Somebody bolted the carb on when it was new
b) Somebody unbolted the carb before selling it to me
c) Somebody maintained or repaired the carb as necessary between a) and b)

I assure you: I did not invent carburetion, nor am I the first person ever to work with it.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
03-14-2016, 04:34 PM
With Duke Power pouring coal ash into all our rivers, I think the EPA has bigger concerns.

If deviating from stock configuration poses a moral dilemma, by all means do not convert your car to carburetion. That certainly is a consideration to factor, alongside carburetion's other pros and cons.

Bill Robertson
#5939

You're a slam-dunk case, Bill. You don't have an LLC, you don't have any warning statements, and best of all you've apparently committed fraud with that emissions label. Corporations are difficult to fight, but people like you are not. Your arrogant thinking might just cost you. You're the perfect resume padding for some ambitious prosecutor's resume.

It isn't a moral dilemma Bill, it's a legal one. And you can start this entire thing up once again where you make installing a carburetor into some sort of quasi-political statement in order to get people to rally behind you once again. But of all the "pros and cons" of this, have you ever bothered to tell anyone the potential legal ramifications? Or the environmental ones? Or how when touting carburetion's superiority over K-Jetronic, the fact that it probably never worked for you because you really didn't know how to make it work? Was that apart of your disclosure?

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 04:43 PM
I have assisted 18 owners to date. Only two of them are complaining, one of whom extols his carburetor and posts video that shows it working normally (problems he has with me are personal, not carb related).

Only one person is having problems, which most likely are self induced (this owner was running more than 20 volts through his electrical system when I first met him, yet stubbornly refuses to swap out what may well be a damaged ignition ECU. Pickup coil in the distributor could also be damaged. You can't run 20 plus volts though your electrical system without *SOME* repercussions).

By the numbers I have a 95% success rate.

In school they would give me an "A".

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
03-14-2016, 04:56 PM
I rebuild carburetors that were previously installed on Ford or AMC automobiles:

And those carburetors were approved for installation from the factory in accordance with existing Federal regulations for those specific applications. Yours are not, and people need to be aware of that.



I assure you: I did not invent carburetion, nor am I the first person ever to work with it.

No, but the intallation onto this specific application has not been properly documented at all. And that needs to happen, which you still refuse to do. I'm guessing because you perhaps want to ensure you're to sole source for information on this conversion process?



I make intake manifolds, same as Edelbrock and Weiand. When you buy an Edelbrock intake manifold the thing shows up in a box. Edelbrock assumes you know how to bolt it on.

Same with the carb. When you buy a rebuilt carb from Champion or Nation Rebuilders, it shows up in a box. They assume you know how to bolt it on.

Because there is an existing Workshop Manual already in print for that car that gives the instructions on how to install said manifolds. And with carbs you do have documentation on what cables to attach, and how to set up the linkage, etc. You have none of this. So again, you have no documentation here, and your comparison is invalid.



On the old .com you complained very loudly that I wasn't providing step by step illustrated instructions. That's not my target audience. If you don't know how to bolt down an intake manifold, please don't buy anything from me.

Bill Robertson
#5939

And is it any wonder? You've got two people so far who claim to be unhappy with your product. And what do we tell people when they have difficulty with a product they purchased from a vendor? We tell them to go back to the vendor. And yet here you are, in the role of a Vendor, and you're refusing the help people. That isn't going to make the carburetion conversion procedures standard. In order for that to happen, there needs to be permanent, public documentation so that people can proceed with this without your help. From the installation & tuning to the fabrication of manifolds. You clearly do not want that. Because if is was a zero-profit operation for you, why do you insist upon never letting go?

Now you know just as well as I do that the problem here isn't simply bolting parts on. You have all of these other concerns for vacuum hoses, environmental controls, transmission kickdown switches, emissions laws, etc. Things that would normally be in a Workshop Manual, but are not because such things do not exist. That is a concern for the community. If Chad and Lou have problems with their carbs, you should just be able to tell them to read their manuals and be done with it. But they don't seem to have that option, do they?

Why aren't more people complaining? I dunno. Maybe you did a good job. Maybe they're afraid of you since you've set yourself up as their only lifeline if they have problems. Because where else are they going to turn? I mean, you can talk all you want about how any mechanic *should* be able to work on a carburetor with no problem. But hell, we have people with bone-stock cars that get turned away from shops as it is. Where are these people supposed to turn for help once you inevitably become unavailable to them?

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 05:08 PM
Carb conversions are 1-2 weeks away from completion.

If you do not know what you are doing, please do not buy one.

If you know what you are doing, PM me to discuss payment, shipping, etc.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-14-2016, 10:56 PM
Just so everyone's clear: you can run evaporative emissions with a carburetor if you want. OEM manufacturers did it throughout the late 70's/early 80's.

Most of us carb guys throw the charcoal canister away, but that's a choice, not a necessity. I provide a charcoal canister blockoff plate, but an owner doesn't have to use it -- it's an option.

If an owner wants to plumb the charcoal canister into his carb, just tee into the spark advance line (ported vacuum) for the purge signal, and into the PCV line (manifold vacuum) for canister evacuation.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-14-2016, 11:03 PM
Very useful info, I may revert to my charcoal canister someday now that I know how to hook it up.

Thanks Bill !
I know with the Fiero swap it can be hooked up if there's any raw fuel fume smell but I didn't hook mine up on that either.
I haven't noticed any raw fuel smells in or around either car though.

I've always said Bill does have great mechanical knowledge and ingenuity.

dmruschell
03-15-2016, 04:21 AM
This is getting ridiculous.

You act as if I invented carburetion, or as if I was the first person ever to put a carburetor on a car.

I make intake manifolds, same as Edelbrock and Weiand. When you buy an Edelbrock intake manifold the thing shows up in a box. Edelbrock assumes you know how to bolt it on.

Same with the carb. When you buy a rebuilt carb from Champion or Nation Rebuilders, it shows up in a box. They assume you know how to bolt it on.

On the old .com you complained very loudly that I wasn't providing step by step illustrated instructions. That's not my target audience. If you don't know how to bolt down an intake manifold, please don't buy anything from me.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Haha agreed.

There are plenty of resources out there to help people learn how to tune a carburetor. If someone is putting a carburetor on their car, common sense would say to learn how to operate and adjust it properly. Figuring out the vacuum hose routing for a carburetor shouldn't be difficult either.

Assuming the parts are functioning correctly, if you can't bolt down an intake manifold, bolt on the carb, and set the idle mixture and speed, you probably shouldn't be running a carburetor (or should research and figure out how :) ).

content22207_2
03-15-2016, 08:32 AM
Figuring out the vacuum hose routing for a carburetor shouldn't be difficult either.

3 or 4 hoses in my installations:
- 3/8" hose: manifold vacuum to the HVAC and brake booster tee
- 5/16" hose: from PCV valve
- 3/16" hose: ported vacuum to spark advance
Automatics only:
- 3/16" hose: manifold vacuum to the modulator valve

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-15-2016, 10:49 AM
Haha agreed.

There are plenty of resources out there to help people learn how to tune a carburetor. If someone is putting a carburetor on their car, common sense would say to learn how to operate and adjust it properly. Figuring out the vacuum hose routing for a carburetor shouldn't be difficult either.

Assuming the parts are functioning correctly, if you can't bolt down an intake manifold, bolt on the carb, and set the idle mixture and speed, you probably shouldn't be running a carburetor (or should research and figure out how :) ).


Agreed, and lesson learned...

Educate yourselves people ,,, I didn't and I'm paying the price because I had a falling apart with Bill. It was my fault too for getting out of hand and I have apologized to Bill but I understand he is done with me. And I have to respect that.

That's what my posts are all about here. An honest and fair education.
If I knew how to get the carb tuned or working correctly, none of this would have happened.

"If woody went straight to the police, none of this would have happened." <- I love that woody woodpecker episode.

DMCVegas
03-15-2016, 12:27 PM
I provide a charcoal canister blockoff plate, but an owner doesn't have to use it -- it's an option.

If you're speaking of a "block-off plate" to just leaving the canister connected without any way to purge itself, that is HIGHLY dangerous.

Fuel tanks build pressure up from residual heat (usually exhaust lines, but in our cases the water pipes next to the tank do quite nicely), and that pressure has to have somewhere to go. Meaning it will leak out through either the gas cap, or the fuel sending unit. Best of all will be the fact that thanks to the pressure differential, if you use a pickup hose with the pump it's going to collapse. Which leads to noisy fuel pumps, low fuel pressure, and best of all a shortened lifespan of that pump since it's being starved so bad. Worst of all will be those leaking gas fumes which are as much of a danger in a garage with a furnace or a water heater as they are for someone driving when those fumes all get sucked into the engine compartment.

Going over everything we've covered with this just being the latest of items, are you really making everyone aware of the hazards & risks involved with your kits?

Lou and "Boo"
03-15-2016, 12:34 PM
I have assisted 18 owners to date. Only two of them are complaining, one of whom extols his carburetor and posts video that shows it working normally (problems he has with me are personal, not carb related).

Only one person is having problems, which most likely are self induced (this owner was running more than 20 volts through his electrical system when I first met him, yet stubbornly refuses to swap out what may well be a damaged ignition ECU. Pickup coil in the distributor could also be damaged. You can't run 20 plus volts though your electrical system without *SOME* repercussions).

By the numbers I have a 95% success rate.

In school they would give me an "A".

Bill Robertson
#5939

I like the school analogy Bill. :)
I would give you an A for your vast knowledge but I'd have to call your parents or have you serve detention for behavior. ;)

I would like to make amends and at least be civil to each other from now on .....Peace?

I AM replacing ignition components to give you the benefit of the doubt but I don't know how to make a duraspark adapter and I don't think you would like to help by making the adapter for me... Or am I wrong on that?

Let's shake computers and make up.

We cannot forget our experiences but maybe we can start with a clean slate?

content22207_2
03-15-2016, 12:41 PM
If you're speaking of a "block-off plate" to just leaving the canister connected without any way to purge itself, that is HIGHLY dangerous.

Fuel tanks build pressure up from residual heat (usually exhaust lines, but in our cases the water pipes next to the tank do quite nicely), and that pressure has to have somewhere to go. Meaning it will leak out through either the gas cap, or the fuel sending unit. Best of all will be the fact that thanks to the pressure differential, if you use a pickup hose with the pump it's going to collapse. Which leads to noisy fuel pumps, low fuel pressure, and best of all a shortened lifespan of that pump since it's being starved so bad. Worst of all will be those leaking gas fumes which are as much of a danger in a garage with a furnace or a water heater as they are for someone driving when those fumes all get sucked into the engine compartment.

Going over everything we've covered with this just being the latest of items, are you really making everyone aware of the hazards & risks involved with your kits?

Oh please.

A solid piece of plastic is a solid piece of plastic -- no hoses in or out. If you block off the charcoal canister opening it is physically impossible to attach anything (I guess an owner could drill a hole in the blockoff plate, but in such instance why not simply leave the factory plate in place?).

Charcoal canister mounts to the factory plate anyway -- if you throw the plate away there's nothing to attach the canister to (unless an owner decides to just let it rattle around loose inside the pontoon -- again preposterous).

Your incessant trolling is becoming quite tiresome.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-15-2016, 12:42 PM
Just to add, in Bill's defense and I know that sounds strange coming from me,

I was soooo pleased with my cars peugot setup. The car was screaming fast. The issue I am having is most probably a tweaking adjustment issue or a swapped carb component issue (mentioned the full throttle enrichment valve was on one but not the other) and could have been easily fixed in a matter of minutes if Bill was there to try it out and experience for himself and make the adjustments or changes himself. Being that I am a total dumb ass when it comes to carbs, I AM hesitant to mess with it but I gotta get up the nerve and try.
I DO wish I had Bill's help with this problem.
I am satisfied with his product as far as the equipment goes. I just had a falling out which I was mostly to blame for since I let myself get out of hand online.


Bill, can we please be civil and get back to a talking basis with mutual respect?

DMCVegas
03-15-2016, 12:43 PM
Haha agreed.

There are plenty of resources out there to help people learn how to tune a carburetor. If someone is putting a carburetor on their car, common sense would say to learn how to operate and adjust it properly.

There are guides, and yet no one follows them. Tons and tons of people will swear up and down that you need only listen to an engine in order to "tune it by ear" which is clearly wrong. You NEED to analyze the exhaust gas. If you could tune it by ear, equipment manufacturers would have sold aural-based equipment with microphones instead of gas probes. So there again is yet another aspect of a carb conversion which I didn't even cover yet. How to actually tune a carburetor properly. And unlike your inaccurate information, it involves much more than just setting everything up at idle speeds.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0507-carb-tuning-tips-tricks/



Figuring out the vacuum hose routing for a carburetor shouldn't be difficult either.

Assuming the parts are functioning correctly, if you can't bolt down an intake manifold, bolt on the carb, and set the idle mixture and speed, you probably shouldn't be running a carburetor (or should research and figure out how :) ).

If this is a kit, that means that there should be instructions to go along with it rather than a "just figure it out for yourself" attitude. Example: When DMCH came out with their Stage II engines, I asked the very same questions directly about how someone is supposed to tune one of these new engines in the future. The response I received was that you need only follow the adjustment instructions inside of the Workshop Manual. The same specs one tuning the engines are interchangeable. So they already had all of this information figured out before their product was delivered to market. Unlike this "kit" being offered.

Which of course means that as we've seen with Lou, there is no support for any of these carb conversions once they have been completed. And you can laugh at me, and try and keep up this elitist attitude all you want, but I guarantee you that I'm asking the very same questions that many others have. And the answers we've all received certainly are NOT encouraging ones.

content22207_2
03-15-2016, 12:46 PM
The purpose of this thread is to keep owners waiting for carb conversions updated on progress.

Would everyone please stop polluting it with extraneous posts.

This is a progress thread -- period.

If you have any other comments or concerns, please post them in appropriate threads (there already is an "ask about carburetion thread).

Thank you in advance for keeping DMCTalk neat and tidy.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-15-2016, 12:46 PM
In defense of Rob,

Although Robert's inquiry questions go seem aggravating, he does have good points that SOME owners may need to be aware of, especially thise in the smog state of California where the lawn mowers need catalytic converters. Kidding about the lawn mowers guys! But I think Robert is trying to open the information so everyone can educate fully when weighing the options.

But you see my point?

I am NOT trolling Bill.

I may have in the past on Today and even here with my "Tietlebaums" question. But I see how that's not fair and I have turned over a new leaf and I am trying to make amends.
Peace Bill? Friends or at least civil again?

Lou and "Boo"
03-15-2016, 12:52 PM
There are guides, and yet no one follows them. Tons and tons of people will swear up and down that you need only listen to an engine in order to "tune it by ear" which is clearly wrong. You NEED to analyze the exhaust gas. If you could tune it by ear, equipment manufacturers would have sold aural-based equipment with microphones instead of gas probes. So there again is yet another aspect of a carb conversion which I didn't even cover yet. How to actually tune a carburetor properly. And unlike your inaccurate information, it involves much more than just setting everything up at idle speeds.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0507-carb-tuning-tips-tricks/




If this is a kit, that means that there should be instructions to go along with it rather than a "just figure it out for yourself" attitude. Example: When DMCH came out with their Stage II engines, I asked the very same questions directly about how someone is supposed to tune one of these new engines in the future. The response I received was that you need only follow the adjustment instructions inside of the Workshop Manual. The same specs one tuning the engines are interchangeable. So they already had all of this information figured out before their product was delivered to market. Unlike this "kit" being offered.

Which of course means that as we've seen with Lou, there is no support for any of these carb conversions once they have been completed. And you can laugh at me, and try and keep up this elitist attitude all you want, but I guarantee you that I'm asking the very same questions that many others have. And the answers we've all received certainly are NOT encouraging ones.

I would have continued to have support if I didn't start trolling Bill. Understandably he decided not to help me. I have to respect that and live with it.

I regret posting my issue online after but gearing back from Bill, but I was seeking help .

Sorry it came to this Bill. I truly apologize.

content22207_2
03-15-2016, 12:53 PM
The purpose of this thread is to keep owners updated on carb conversion progress.

If you have any other comments or concerns, please post them in appropriate threads.

Thank you in advance for keeping DMCTalk neat & tidy.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
03-15-2016, 01:07 PM
Your incessant trolling is becoming quite tiresome.

Bill Robertson
#5939

No Bill, this isn't trolling at all. This is simply a demonstration of Critical Thinking in action.

Just because you are uncomfortable with the questions doesn't mean that I'm trolling. That's not how trolling works at all.

I have asked you multiple questions about different things to which you have mostly ignored. These are all legitimate questions about real concerns that anyone who is considering a carbureator conversion in general should be asking. Especially when the very scenario I warned you about years ago of abandoned owners with no where to turn are now suddenly coming to pass. When I have had a concern, I have also provided verified sources whenever possible.

Your responses back have as previously stated been to ignore the question, or to try and bait me into an argument. Usually with the underlying tone that I'm apparently not smart enough for Carburetion, or your typical martyrdom ploy. Now that is trolling.

If you feel that I am somehow trolling with you and that my input on this thread has absolutely no value to your potential customers, then I wholeheartedly invite you to involve the moderators in on this.



The purpose of this thread is to keep owners updated on carb conversion progress.

If you have any other comments or concerns, please post them in appropriate threads.

Thank you in advance for keeping DMCTalk neat & tidy.

Bill Robertson
#5939

No it's not, Bill. The entire purpose of this thread is for you to sell Carburetor Conversion Kits. You said that in your very first post to this thread. You're selling something, and I have questions. It's not my fault you can't answer them.

Lou and "Boo"
03-15-2016, 01:09 PM
The purpose of this thread is to keep owners updated on carb conversion progress.

If you have any other comments or concerns, please post them in appropriate threads.

Thank you in advance for keeping DMCTalk neat & tidy.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Point taken.

Will do!

P.S. Duraspark ?

dmruschell
03-15-2016, 01:15 PM
There are guides, and yet no one follows them. Tons and tons of people will swear up and down that you need only listen to an engine in order to "tune it by ear" which is clearly wrong. You NEED to analyze the exhaust gas. If you could tune it by ear, equipment manufacturers would have sold aural-based equipment with microphones instead of gas probes. So there again is yet another aspect of a carb conversion which I didn't even cover yet. How to actually tune a carburetor properly. And unlike your inaccurate information, it involves much more than just setting everything up at idle speeds.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/ccrp-0507-carb-tuning-tips-tricks/

There is no way you're not trolling.

I said for people to learn how to tune a carburetor properly, and you accuse me of giving "inaccurate information." Please kindly leave this thread and take your trolling elsewhere.

To keep this on topic, I'm happy to hear the carb kits are almost completed. People can have an opinion of Bill one way or another, but making the manifolds (and various other bits) is helpful since PRV carbureted manifolds aren't common. I'm planning to get the Pugeot manifolds based on my driving style, but there are still parts for adapting the carb to that manifold and other parts that I'm thankful that Bill makes.

DMCVegas
03-15-2016, 01:40 PM
There is no way you're not trolling.

I said for people to learn how to tune a carburetor properly, and you accuse me of giving "inaccurate information." Please kindly leave this thread and take your trolling elsewhere.

That wasn't trolling in the least bit. I provided factual information as a rebuttal against your inaccurate advice of how to tune a carburetor. Again, your disagreeing with me doesn't automatically equal trolling on my part. I have pointed out faults when the appear in the hopes that they would be addressed. And like my response to you here, I am actually responding and addressing your concern accordingly. Clarification is my goal, not angering anyone.

Furthermore, as I said to Bill, if you have a problem with someone questioning things, and in the process you feel that it is a violation of forum rules, speak with the moderators.

dmruschell
03-15-2016, 02:02 PM
That wasn't trolling in the least bit. I provided factual information as a rebuttal against your inaccurate advice of how to tune a carburetor. Again, your disagreeing with me doesn't automatically equal trolling on my part. I have pointed out faults when the appear in the hopes that they would be addressed. And like my response to you here, I am actually responding and addressing your concern accordingly. Clarification is my goal, not angering anyone.

Furthermore, as I said to Bill, if you have a problem with someone questioning things, and in the process you feel that it is a violation of forum rules, speak with the moderators.

Reread my post. I never told anyone how to tune a carburetor. I didn't say to tune it by ear, by using engine vacuum, by using a tachometer, or by using an exhaust gas analyzer. All I said was that people who are converting to a carburetor should learn how to tune one, and that there are many resources available for people to learn how to do that. You're the one that mentioned tuning it by ear, and said that that's what I was advocating and said that I was spreading inaccurate information. You put words in my mouth that I never said.

DMCVegas
03-15-2016, 02:21 PM
Reread my post. I never told anyone how to tune a carburetor. I didn't say to tune it by ear, by using engine vacuum, by using a tachometer, or by using an exhaust gas analyzer. All I said was that people who are converting to a carburetor should learn how to tune one, and that there are many resources available for people to learn how to do that. You're the one that mentioned tuning it by ear, and said that that's what I was advocating and said that I was spreading inaccurate information. You put words in my mouth that I never said.

So you're telling me that you never wrote this:


if you can't bolt down an intake manifold, bolt on the carb, and set the idle mixture and speed, you probably shouldn't be running a carburetor (or should research and figure out how :) ).

Because tuning a carburetor require a lot more than just that, and you're making it seem like that's all there is to it.

content22207_2
03-15-2016, 02:30 PM
The purpose of this thread is to update owners of carb conversion progress.

Please post other comments or concerns in appropriate threads.

Thank you in advance for keeping DMCTalk neat & tidy.

Bill Robertson
#5939

dmruschell
03-15-2016, 03:27 PM
So you're telling me that you never wrote this:

"if you can't bolt down an intake manifold, bolt on the carb, and set the idle mixture and speed, you probably shouldn't be running a carburetor (or should research and figure out how )."

Because tuning a carburetor require a lot more than just that, and you're making it seem like that's all there is to it.

Last comment on this issue because it's derailing the main purpose of this thread, and it's tiresome just refuting someone making assumptions about what was (or wasn't) said.

That is the bare minimum required to run a carburetor, so if you can't do the bare minimum, then you shouldn't be running a carburetor. It is a logical fallacy to assume that I meant that there is nothing more than that required to properly tune a carburetor. Assuming what I meant, one way or another, is much different than providing "factual information," as you claim you are doing. Again, let this go.

DMCVegas
03-15-2016, 03:51 PM
That is the bare minimum required to run a carburetor... It is a logical fallacy to assume that I meant that there is nothing more than that required to properly tune a carburetor.

That is precisely what I wanted to hear from you. Thank you.

content22207_2
03-15-2016, 05:21 PM
I'm planning to get the Pugeot manifolds based on my driving style, but there are still parts for adapting the carb tothat manifold and other parts that I'm thankful that Bill makes.

You've got to find a manifold in the first place. I am sure 35 years ago they were as close as your friendly neighborhood Peugeot dealer, but in the year 2016 they are a little scarce to come by. I've tapped out Canadian and Australian Peugeot forums.

Speaking of which: these manifolds are not brand spanking new in a box. Quite the opposite actually. I am doing my best to clean them up, but if anyone thinks there won't be dirt and grime trapped in nooks and crannies I just can't reach, they can divest themselves of that pleasant notion here and now. I just bought two wire brushes for my Dremel too and they disintegrated within minutes. I am back to toothbrushes and Go Jo.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCMW Dave
03-15-2016, 08:08 PM
. I am back to toothbrushes and Go Jo.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Try soda blasting or walnut blasting. You can buy very inexpensive DIY setups for either.

Drive Stainless
03-15-2016, 08:57 PM
Try soda blasting or walnut blasting. You can buy very inexpensive DIY setups for either.

I think Dave just offered the DMCMW parking lot for this purpose. Can the blasting wait until the 2016 DMCMW open house in June? :devil:

EDIT: Kidding, but didn't you just build a big brand new garage, Bill?

dmruschell
03-15-2016, 11:52 PM
You've got to find a manifold in the first place. I am sure 35 years ago they were as close as your friendly neighborhood Peugeot dealer, but in the year 2016 they are a little scarce to come by. I've tapped out Canadian and Australian Peugeot forums.

Speaking of which: these manifolds are not brand spanking new in a box. Quite the opposite actually. I am doing my best to clean them up, but if anyone thinks there won't be dirt and grime trapped in nooks and crannies I just can't reach, they can divest themselves of that pleasant notion here and now. I just bought two wire brushes for my Dremel too and they disintegrated within minutes. I am back to toothbrushes and Go Jo.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Don't clean them up too much; it will make the rest of my engine compartment look bad! :P

SProfita
03-16-2016, 12:50 PM
Working on getting more deloreans back on the road. Waiting on a shipment of peugeot intake manifolds.

Andrew
03-16-2016, 06:11 PM
Working on getting more deloreans back on the road. Waiting on a shipment of peugeot intake manifolds.

I'm a big fan of the Peugeot manifold. I'm running one on 5052 and I have a spare ready if I ever decide to carb 4194. They are pretty difficult to find on this side of the pond these days. Are you having the Peugeot manifolds fabricated or do you have a overseas source?

content22207_2
03-16-2016, 08:10 PM
Hopefully it's an old supply. If I was going to get new manifolds sand cast from scratch I would use Volvo A as the pattern, not Peugeot 604. Volvo A locates the carb almost in the center of the manifold (about 1/2" foreward). Peugeot 604 2 barrel venturi is offset very far to the rear. I have to use early model 2100's with integrated pulloffs on my Peugeot conversions because later models would only have about 1/8" clearance between the external pulloff and the distributor.

My fabricated manifolds closely emulate Volvo A, albeit dual plane rather than single plane:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/564678_370159799695943_1820713466_n.jpg?oh=83e5cda 3af65a2b4fccd1bd9ba0884f5&oe=578AA8A6

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/564678_370159816362608_1366003768_n.jpg?oh=6819cda 33d0e26eca7397e738d1c942d&oe=574C6E5F

Peugeot 604 distributor clearance with an early model 2100 (integreated pulloff). Plenty of room. You can imagine how close an external pulloff would be:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/423713_352253511486572_725941828_n.jpg?oh=b42ad59f 893f511cee4cd99af15e7e23&oe=57991C38

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-16-2016, 08:14 PM
Of course using a Volvo A manifold as a pattern would definitely need to be modified to match some sort of carb footprint -- from Douvrin it just has a big hole:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/993917_588825531162701_381597239_n.jpg?oh=370b5c5d 047be60cb6388a47e3fc6ca3&oe=5790364F

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-16-2016, 08:34 PM
Bill is the Volvo manifold faster than the peugot ( more air flow ) ?
The plenum tubes look larger than the peugot to me but maybe it's just the picture.

content22207_2
03-16-2016, 08:43 PM
40837 40838

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-16-2016, 09:36 PM
Sorry Bill, I see the peugot picture modded to take a four barrel carb but your words never posted. Also, I thought you always said that the 2100 was perfectly suited for the engine and that larger carbs would bog it down rather than make it faster.

Are you saying that the fastest manifold would be that peugot with the four barrel conversion ? If so where can I find one? If I go four barrel I'd do a quadra jet because it's got the monster secondaries.

Thank you
Also , if sticking with the 2100, is the Volvo faster than the peugot due to larger intake plenum tubes to each cylinder?
And what are those red lines in the photo?

content22207_2
03-17-2016, 12:59 AM
Red lines are a stock Peugeot manifold.

You can try a 4 barrel if you want, but I wouldn't recommend it. Our engines are only 174 cubic inches. And they're low compression. With very gentle valve lift.

Bigger is not always better.

Bill Robertson
#5939

davidc89
03-17-2016, 01:23 AM
CFM = Cubic Inches x RPM x Volumetric Efficiency ÷ 3456.

You can calculate how big of a carb you need.

Lou and "Boo"
03-17-2016, 08:45 AM
I will stick with the 2100 because my car was lightning fast with it. I am in the process of making the replacement carburetor the same specs as the original carburetor even though I can't test drive anything at least I can give my replacement car back to Bill. It is his property.

I wish Bill could see that I'm trying to do the right thing.

content22207_2
03-17-2016, 01:28 PM
If your car *WAS* lightening fast (past tense), chances are something else changed other than fuel delivery. There is very little inside a 2100 to go bad, and the things that can fail are nearly all idle and off idle devices (choke cap, accelerator pump, etc). After the throttle plates open, fuel delivery is managed by air flow alone. Make sure the choke plate is opening all the way (closed choke plate restricts air flow -- good when the engine is cold, bad when the engine is warmed up).

I'd suspect ignition, especially since you were running excessive voltage through the system for an extended period of time. Obviously the ECU may have been damaged. Normally the ECU controls hall effect voltage -- don't know if excessive voltage into the ECU could cause excessive voltage through the distributor pickup as well. You can wire a Duraspark ignition module temporarily using 1/4" quick connects scotch locked to the factory harness.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Jimmyd
03-17-2016, 05:04 PM
If your car *WAS* lightening fast (past tense), chances are something else changed other than fuel delivery. There is very little inside a 2100 to go bad, and the things that can fail are nearly all idle and off idle devices (choke cap, accelerator pump, etc). After the throttle plates open, fuel delivery is managed by air flow alone. Make sure the choke plate is opening all the way (closed choke plate restricts air flow -- good when the engine is cold, bad when the engine is warmed up).

I'd suspect ignition, especially since you were running excessive voltage through the system for an extended period of time. Obviously the ECU may have been damaged. Normally the ECU controls hall effect voltage -- don't know if excessive voltage into the ECU could cause excessive voltage through the distributor pickup as well. You can wire a Duraspark ignition module temporarily using 1/4" quick connects scotch locked to the factory harness.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Hi bill was trying to contact you about payment and shipping of single plane manifold kit -thanks

Lou and "Boo"
03-17-2016, 06:07 PM
If your car *WAS* lightening fast (past tense), chances are something else changed other than fuel delivery. There is very little inside a 2100 to go bad, and the things that can fail are nearly all idle and off idle devices (choke cap, accelerator pump, etc). After the throttle plates open, fuel delivery is managed by air flow alone. Make sure the choke plate is opening all the way (closed choke plate restricts air flow -- good when the engine is cold, bad when the engine is warmed up).

I'd suspect ignition, especially since you were running excessive voltage through the system for an extended period of time. Obviously the ECU may have been damaged. Normally the ECU controls hall effect voltage -- don't know if excessive voltage into the ECU could cause excessive voltage through the distributor pickup as well. You can wire a Duraspark ignition module temporarily using 1/4" quick connects scotch locked to the factory harness.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Thank you Bill. I really do appreciate the information.
Sincerely,
Louis

Lou and "Boo"
03-17-2016, 09:04 PM
Bill, the problem is off idle. just as the throttle plates open up from idle it goes to die out. And when feathering the gas lightly it will rev but in gear is has no acceleration. The accelerator pump diaphragm looks brand new.'

Do you know what the power valve rating is in HG? This would be the power valve on the original carb as the replacement one had a plugged power valve.

content22207_2
03-17-2016, 11:08 PM
Hi bill was trying to contact you about payment and shipping of single plane manifold kit -thanks

I've got you scheduled for a Peugeot manifold w/ manual trans carb.

My intention is to price the Peugeot manifolds/adapter plates the same as fabricated manifolds.

Just added up material and subcontracted labor cost for a fabricated manifold:
Central Plenum McMaster 8975K268 43.20
Top Plate McMaster 8975K235 19.87
Flanges McMaster 8975K91 18.77
Elbows (4) McMaster 43485K123 148.56
Runners McMaster 5038K241 20.95
Throttle Bracket Bar McMaster 8975K594 1.96
Shipping 10.00
Labor: Drill Central Plenum 50.00
Labor: Welding 170.00

That's $483 *WITHOUT any compensation for my own time cutting and shaping the pieces (all done by hand).

Does kind of irritate me that I go to all this trouble to laboriously make the pieces by hand, yet owners of late, especially on that other forum, act as if I am mistreating them. Makes me feel very taken for granted. I used to enjoy making these things to help owners out, but the last few people I've helped have been so high maintenance, and have such a bad entitlement complex, that they risk screwing everything up for everybody else.

40857

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-17-2016, 11:12 PM
There are a few other manifold costs: carb hold down studs and nuts, gasket between the top plate and central plenum (or between the adapter and Peugeot manifold), brass vacuum barbs, brass plugs for unused holes, etc.

Bill Robertson
#5939

SProfita
03-18-2016, 05:16 AM
I sourced the peugeot manifolds from overseas and will be looking for me. Me and a gentleman are trying to get a CAD design and reproduction going to spare owners feeling guilty for taking advantage of content, lol. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The project may take a bit of time to get underway, but will be a surefire way to get Deloreans back on the road without replacing the many kjet components that are sometimes likely to fail.

SProfita
03-18-2016, 05:18 AM
*Correction* Looking for more, not me.

content22207_2
03-18-2016, 08:50 AM
As stated, I'd relocate the carburetor to the center of the manifold. That's where all OEM carbs were located.

Peugeot 2 barrel is offset to one end of the manifold because it had a 1 barrel at the other end (like running a dual quad or 6 pack manifold with the other venturi openings capped off).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-18-2016, 09:05 AM
From my research, the power valve HG rating is half of the vacuum rating at idle. I will use the power valve that was in the original carb because it performed nice on that.
Mike carb site sells 7.5 HG ones but other sites sell ones that fit 2100 carbs and have various HG ratings.

I will check vacuum once I get this running again with the replacement carb.

I do not feel entitled, and I have stated many times that I feel bad for badmouthing Bill and I have apologized in public and in private to Bill.

What more can I do?!?

Lou and "Boo"
03-18-2016, 09:51 AM
I've got you scheduled for a Peugeot manifold w/ manual trans carb.

My intention is to price the Peugeot manifolds/adapter plates the same as fabricated manifolds.

Just added up material and subcontracted labor cost for a fabricated manifold:
Central Plenum McMaster 8975K268 43.20
Top Plate McMaster 8975K235 19.87
Flanges McMaster 8975K91 18.77
Elbows (4) McMaster 43485K123 148.56
Runners McMaster 5038K241 20.95
Throttle Bracket Bar McMaster 8975K594 1.96
Shipping 10.00
Labor: Drill Central Plenum 50.00
Labor: Welding 170.00

That's $483 *WITHOUT any compensation for my own time cutting and shaping the pieces (all done by hand).

Does kind of irritate me that I go to all this trouble to laboriously make the pieces by hand, yet owners of late, especially on that other forum, act as if I am mistreating them. Makes me feel very taken for granted. I used to enjoy making these things to help owners out, but the last few people I've helped have been so high maintenance, and have such a bad entitlement complex, that they risk screwing everything up for everybody else.

40857

Bill Robertson
#5939

Bill, that price must be for just the manifold. The kit I bought included fuel pump, bowing, and carb and was well over $1000.

And yes, Bill's time and labor were not included in the price. I would have had no problem paying more for that but Bill insisted to not get paid for his labor or time. I have the itemized list somewhere but it was many years ago and I sure prices have changed since then.
The welding costs went up slightly from what I remember but that is due to Bill using a different welder than he did when he made the manifold years ago.

Upon second look, that $400 something number IS just for the items Bill listed in his post. The complete 'kit' includes more and is more money that $400 something.

My fault, sorry for the confusion.

content22207_2
03-18-2016, 10:08 AM
$400 does not include a single penny for my labor (not even $17 -- I had to drive 1,000 miles to/from DC to get the manifolds welded up so even that was long gone in fuel cost before I ever got out of North Carolina).

Of *COURSE* there are additional costs: carburetor itself, throttle cable bracket, hardware, hoses, air filter, fuel pump & carrier, fuel filter & carrier, throttle cable ends, gaskets and O rings, etc. Everything from the heads north has to be replaced. Anyone looking at a manifold alone sees only the tip of the iceberg.

Bill Roberston
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-18-2016, 10:11 AM
Well said Bill. And thank you again for the information. It is greatly appreciated as your help Always was.

How about that enrichment valve HG rating you use ?

Lou and "Boo"
03-18-2016, 10:47 AM
Oh and Bill,
I am replacing ignition components but the original carb ran great (but had high rpm cutting out) on the way from my house to my friend Tom's house (about 30 miles) and the only thing changed was the carb and then in the way home it was falling on its face.
I understand it could be ignition, but with that experience, it would be a big coincidence that the ignition crapped out right as the carb, and ONLY the carb, was changed.

Jimmyd
03-18-2016, 10:07 PM
I've got you scheduled for a Peugeot manifold w/ manual trans carb.
Hi bill just let me know when you come up with final price and I'll get payment to you immediately -thanks for all your hard work and time to come up with a simple fuel delivery for the deloreans -
My intention is to price the Peugeot manifolds/adapter plates the same as fabricated manifolds.

Just added up material and subcontracted labor cost for a fabricated manifold:
Central Plenum McMaster 8975K268 43.20
Top Plate McMaster 8975K235 19.87
Flanges McMaster 8975K91 18.77
Elbows (4) McMaster 43485K123 148.56
Runners McMaster 5038K241 20.95
Throttle Bracket Bar McMaster 8975K594 1.96
Shipping 10.00
Labor: Drill Central Plenum 50.00
Labor: Welding 170.00

That's $483 *WITHOUT any compensation for my own time cutting and shaping the pieces (all done by hand).

Does kind of irritate me that I go to all this trouble to laboriously make the pieces by hand, yet owners of late, especially on that other forum, act as if I am mistreating them. Makes me feel very taken for granted. I used to enjoy making these things to help owners out, but the last few people I've helped have been so high maintenance, and have such a bad entitlement complex, that they risk screwing everything up for everybody else.

40857

Bill Robertson
#5939

Hi bill just let me know when you come up with the final price and I'll get payment out to you immediately-thanks for your hard work and time to make a simple fuel delivery system for the deloreans

Lou and "Boo"
03-19-2016, 06:56 AM
The last few pages prove how Bill is lying about his buisness transactions. Bill stated that Chsd BOUGHT his parts from me which is NOT TRUE. Be careful who you are dealing with here!

http://dmctoday.com/showthread.php?1887-Bill-Facilitates-Returning-Lent-Property

I am like the Deloresn community's Ralph Nader.
The only one here willing to speak the truth about thier rotten experience with this vendor and his online slanderous behavior.

Heed my warning people, get informed!

Lou and "Boo"
03-19-2016, 07:36 AM
All this justifies the countless warnings I received from well respected owners in the community when I first bought my car and mentioned Bill.
Bill also lies about how many people he screwed over. Bill, ever hear of a Rick from Congers NY?
Hiding the dealings with him is just another tactic to avoid the reality of your unethical business practices.

Be warned people!

Lou and "Boo"
03-19-2016, 07:42 AM
Oh, and thank you Tamir for your support in my quest to educate people on what REALLY happens when you get involved with Bill.

I am finished here but can be reached via PM. I will post only to correct lies that Bill may continue to fabricate.

Bill is on moderated status already. Talk mods are not fooled by Bill and can see his condescending, nasty tone and immoral behavior to people AFTER he takes their money.

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 09:22 AM
Louis, please try to conduct yourself with decorum on this forum.

Tamir and I have already been in conversation about your incessant badgering. If you think it is getting a warm reception, you are sadly mistaken. In the forum owner's eyes at least you are very much in the wrong.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 09:23 AM
I have helped 18 owners to date: 16 trouble free, and 2 who have been nothing but trouble. You do the math.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 09:38 AM
I have absolutely no desire to engage Louis in his incessant baiting and goading, but this one assertion needs to be addressed because it impunes the owner of this forum:

Louis' contention that Tamir is sending him supportive messages directly contradicts a message I received from Tamir March 15.

I do not publicly post PM's -- that's why they are called "private" -- but this excerpt gives you an idea what Tamir communicated: "Lou and Boo stuff".

Unless Tamir is saying two different things to two different users, I assure you: the owner of this forum is not thrilled with many of Louis' posts.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-19-2016, 10:06 AM
Funny Bill, that's not the information I got from Tamir.
Quite the contrary.

Anyway to correct Bill's record. It's at least three owners who he screwed over by being an immature, unethical person. But trying to badger anyone, just setting the record straight as Bill gas MUCH to hide.
If I was going to research a person I wanted to buy something from, I would be overjoyed that unhappy customers aren't silenced so I could get the complete information on the seller. That is all that is happening here, Bill tries to twist it into something it isn't to hide his sordid history.

People can decide what they want. Tamir knows why I am posting here.

I am not on moderated status as Bill is. Bill may be PMing Tamir demanding that, but I know Tamir knows I am giving my honest review of my experiences with Bill without any personal insults or badgering.

If Bill makes this out to be more than it is and convinced Tamir to stifle me in any way, I know the full information is here for all to see and educate themselves on so that now they can make a fully informed decision. This is my contribution to the community and I am getting many thanks in PMs for being honest and standing up for the truth.

81dmc
03-19-2016, 11:10 AM
IMHO, I don't think Talk needs any drama from Bill over here. With his first account, he trolled this forum, bringing trouble, especially to newbies. Good luck, but Bill is a troll and needs to be stopped before more trouble sparks.

Just sent this to Louis via PM. Also, when I was new to the community, I was surprised by the drama that was unfolding.


This is the last post I will ever make in Bill's thread, but I just want to warn new members so they can avoid future conflicts.

Lou and "Boo"
03-19-2016, 11:15 AM
Thank you for being brave enough to tell the truth Rodolfo.

This is just one of the many members who PMd me, but for now the only one that was brave enough to post the truth publicly.

Good man.

:cheers:

Maybe Bill was on moderated status here from the start of his 'reverse migration' being that Tamir knew his sordid past.

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 12:12 PM
This discussion is not germane to carb conversions.

But Louis since Louis keeps raising the question, let me clarify his misconception before the confusion propagates any further.

My status bar reads "Senior Member", not "Moderated." There are no restrictions on my activity.

Contrast to Louis' status bar on the other forum, which now reads "Banned". There are significant restrictions on Louis' activity over there now.

That's all that needs to be said on this topic.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Lou and "Boo"
03-19-2016, 12:18 PM
Anyone can go to view forum leaders at the mid bottom of the home page and see that in the moderated section is Bill's account and a test mule. No matter who gets banned or what gets deleted I am done with Bill once and for all.

40889

40890

The carb isn't bright and shiny, but it is complete as I said it has the plugged power valve in it.
It is complete.

Good riddance Mr. Robertson. You can now continue to speak lies as I am silenced on Today.

DMCVegas
03-19-2016, 03:08 PM
This discussion is not germane to carb conversions.

Over the years I have seen plenty of criticism of DeLorean vendors within threads related to their products. This criticism has ranged from the product being focused upon, to the vendor themselves.

This thread is no different. You have now decided to place yourself into the role of a vendor that is providing kits to the community, so as such you are going to be subject to the very same conditions which even you subjected other vendors to. If there are those who are unhappy with your product, or you as a vendor, they are more than entitled to speak out with opposing opinions and viewpoints.

This discussion is quite germane to carb conversions. It discusses those failures which people have had not just with the conversions themselves, but with the level of support the vendor is both willing, and able to provide before/during/after conversions. Which in this case is apparently either minimal to nonexistent.

No one is picking on you, or singling you out. Anyone who has ever tried to offer a product to the community goes through the same thing.

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 03:40 PM
A charity, not a for profit vendor, would be a closer analogy. Factoring my uncompensated labor, I lose a small fortune on every conversion.

Welder who did my latest manifolds estimates my uncompensated labor close to $1,000.

Rob and Houston aren't in business to lose money.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
03-19-2016, 04:37 PM
Actually I am a charity, not a for profit vendor. Factoring my uncompensated labor, I lose a small fortune on every conversion.

Rob and Houston aren't in it to *LOSE* money.

Welder who did my latest manifolds estimates my uncompensated labor close to $1,000.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Profit margins grant no degree of exemption here, Bill.

But please, let us be clear upon the facts stated thus far:


You claim that you are immunte to both criticisim as well as accountability because of your profit margins.
You promise ZERO support for your product.
If someone dares to be outspoken in regards to their predicament of the lack of support offered either pre or post-sale, your only rebuttal is to belittle them for their lack of knowlege.
If someone presses you hard enough to push through all of your strawman arguments and your lack of responses, then play the martyr card and we're back to square one with your whining about how since you're not doing this "for profit", you *shouldn't* be held accountable. And to pretty please with sugar on top pity you...



Bill, we've all been through this with you before. When I first started talking with you about carb conversions, my concern was that there was a severe lack of documentation. To which your advice was that you could help out like you've done for so many other people. To which I rejected that as a solution, and pushed further for there to be a printed documentation list to go along with this. Even pointing out that if you're dead, what good does that do the community. And then you went on the offensive to try and belittle me about my lack of knowledge of carburetors.

From there in order to further gain support for your carburetor conversions you started attacking K-Jetronic. Not only were you rebuffed about this, you clearly proclaimed that you were so knowledgeable about K-Jetronic that from your own experiences and expertise with it, carbs were superior. All the while ignoring and finally rejecting the help that others were not only willing to give, but to really find out precisely what it was that went wrong with your car. Nope, you assured us all that you were perfectly fine and knew all about K-Jet.

Then suddenly you start asking if the Automatic Transmission Computer was integrated into the LAMBDA ECU. Really? Mr. I know all about K-Jetronic but can't even be bothered to read a wiring schematic for this car! Which just proves you lied to everyone.

But hey, let's not stop there, eh? When you got called out and defeated on your argument about K-Jetronic you then tried to accuse everyone of being elitists. That everyone opposed to your half-assery was simply a purest that wanted to stop the modification and customization of all DeLoreans. Which again, was a lie. But hey, you got to feed those lies to others and in turn got them to fight your fight for you. Then what happened when that failed? You started attacking the DeLorean itself. Because your only recourse at that point was simply to try and anger other people.

When that failed, as did all of the other troll attacks from people whom you convinced to fight your fights for you (and got banned in the process), what did you do? You played that same, lame, pity-me routine. Just as you've done here. Wanting everyone to feel sorry for you because you're doing this at-cost. Or because you're sacrificing yourself so much. You're never appreciated! Woe is you...

And we're now back to where you started with the wanting to be The Carbureted Martyr.

Documentation is key. Case in point: We got lucky with Charles Muffley and how he left behind documentation for those Island Twin Turbo kits. These people who buy and install your "kits" would be at a massive disadvantage if you were to suddenly die, or as we've seen you have a falling out with people and now they're stuck without any support.

So here we are, Bill. You riled up enough trolls, then went off to help form your own message boards over on Today. And as it seems now, they got tired of you over there, and so now you're back. Oh, but not before a quick detour over to the DML so that you could burn a few bridges over there too.

You and I both know, Bill, that the cost involved with these carb kits is much higher than expected. What you "loose" in money, we both know you'll gain in personal profit by finally being the center of attention again. Which is very telling as to why you're trying to call yourself a "charity"...

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 05:29 PM
Why don't you buy just an intake manifold alone and do the rest of the conversion yourself? That's what Jeff in South Carolina did. Rich in New York is doing the same.

Jim in Virginia is buying an intake manifold to use for a throttle body conversion.

Derrin may substitute his own carb for the 2100 I provide.

There are multiple ways to skin a cat.

Just buy the pieces you want and do the rest yourself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 05:51 PM
For the record: I am not the only person in the world to have ever worked with carburetors.

I'm not even the only DeLorean owner to have ever worked with carburetors.

Anybody who claims that I alone have knowledge is just being silly.

What I do have is a collection of jigs and templates, allowing me to reproduce the same intake manifold over and over again (I don't have to figure it out from scratch). I've made the same intake manifold 22 times now.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 06:08 PM
Same basic manifold for 8 years (only real difference is thickness of the flanges, increased from 1/4" to 3/8" to accommodate a welder's high power TIG machine):

Manifold 2 (2008 ):

40905

Manifold 22 (2016):

40906

Bill Robertson
#5939

Andrew
03-19-2016, 06:27 PM
Why don't you buy just an intake manifold alone and do the rest of the conversion yourself? That's what Jeff in South Carolina did. Rich in New York is doing the same.

Jim in Virginia is buying an intake manifold to use for a throttle body conversion.

Derrin may substitute his own carb for the 2100 I provide.

There are multiple ways to skin a cat.

Just buy the pieces you want and do the rest yourself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

That's what I did. I found a complete Peugeot 604 system. (Intake, solex carbs and air cleaner.) I know of a handful of others who have done the same. However from my own experience I can attest to the fact that the solex carbs are difficult to tune and even worse to source parts for. It is also quite difficult to find a complete Peugeot system. If I do it again, I would probably go with a Peugeot manifold with an Autolite 2100 carb.

content22207_2
03-19-2016, 06:40 PM
Autolite/Motorcraft 2100/4100 are not necessarily the end all be all (though they do have many positive features to recommend them), but their parts availability is absolutely through the roof. They also readily accept mixing & matching parts from earlier/later renditions (within limits).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Drive Stainless
03-19-2016, 08:41 PM
I will restate my offer here: If anyone is not happy with one of Bill's kits, please contact me about purchasing it. I already have buyers in line both here and overseas. I made this same offer to Bill's most outspoken critic, Lou, and he refused.

Tamir A.
03-19-2016, 11:56 PM
Oh Bill and Lou. Listen guys, don't try using any communication I've had with you on PM and twisting it to suit whatever position you "believe" I may have blessed. The fact of the matter is there are a few members who've reached out to me and aren't pleased that I've allowed Bill to be back on the forum. But from everything I've seen from Bill thus far on his return, he has restrained himself from a lot of baiting and attempts by you and others to veer off topic from his carb stuff. And i get it, if you've had beef with him in the past, I don't expect anyone to get over that and all of a sudden like the guy. But from what I can tell, he has some knowledge to dispense, and for some, it might be helpful. Bill is not being moderated, he is free to post without our approval.

Lou - you seem to have made your point in this thread multiple times, ease up alright. As I've told both of you on separate occasions, nobody's looking for drama over here, so bite your tongue sometimes and don't feel the need to say every little thing that may come to your mind in a post. Just stick to the car stuff, it's pretty simple.

T.


Funny Bill, that's not the information I got from Tamir.
Quite the contrary.

Anyway to correct Bill's record. It's at least three owners who he screwed over by being an immature, unethical person. But trying to badger anyone, just setting the record straight as Bill gas MUCH to hide.
If I was going to research a person I wanted to buy something from, I would be overjoyed that unhappy customers aren't silenced so I could get the complete information on the seller. That is all that is happening here, Bill tries to twist it into something it isn't to hide his sordid history.

People can decide what they want. Tamir knows why I am posting here.

I am not on moderated status as Bill is. Bill may be PMing Tamir demanding that, but I know Tamir knows I am giving my honest review of my experiences with Bill without any personal insults or badgering.

If Bill makes this out to be more than it is and convinced Tamir to stifle me in any way, I know the full information is here for all to see and educate themselves on so that now they can make a fully informed decision. This is my contribution to the community and I am getting many thanks in PMs for being honest and standing up for the truth.

content22207_2
03-20-2016, 01:09 AM
Just stick to the carb stuff, it's pretty simple.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Jimmyd
04-01-2016, 08:04 PM
Why don't you buy just an intake manifold alone and do the rest of the conversion yourself? That's what Jeff in South Carolina did. Rich in New York is doing the same.

Jim in Virginia is buying an intake manifold to use for a throttle body conversion.

Derrin may substitute his own carb for the 2100 I provide.

There are multiple ways to skin a cat.

Just buy the pieces you want and do the rest yourself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Hi Bill just checking in on the carburetor kits -thanks

content22207_2
04-01-2016, 08:36 PM
I'm getting to them as fast as I can. Things keep popping up to delay me. For example, at the beginning of this week I had to make a rush trip to South Carolina to retrieve a dead DeLorean (which necessitated rigging up an electric winch the day before, and 32 feet of modified jumper cables to reach the back of the truck, so I could pull said dead DeLorean onto my tow dolly):

41215

41216

41217

BTW: anybody who tells you a DeLorean can't be dolly'ed is incorrect -- they dolly just fine (normal automatic transmission restrictions apply -- take the drive axles off).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Jim D
04-02-2016, 08:18 AM
I have used a tow dolly with the rear setting on the dolly. Works great just need to tie down the engine hatch. Seems to tow better with the heavy end on the dolly.

Citizen
04-02-2016, 09:17 AM
I have used a tow dolly with the rear setting on the dolly. Works great just need to tie down the engine hatch. Seems to tow better with the heavy end on the dolly.

In addition to tying down the engine hatch, I would also completely remove the louvers off the car (easy to do), as it seems they'd catch a lot of air if left on.

Thomas

...

content22207_2
04-02-2016, 09:54 AM
I don't like to tow with the steering axle on the ground. Not only are you totally dependent upon the steering wheel lock, but if the steering wheel doesn't lock totally straight ahead you end up fighting the car. It's OK around town, but towing several hundred miles like that would be exhausting. Does save you from pulling the driveshaft/drive axles on an automatic.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Farrar
04-02-2016, 03:44 PM
Does save you from pulling the driveshaft/drive axles on an automatic.

No big deal, just make sure the owner has loosened the 17mm fasteners on the drive axles to make them easier to remove. ;)

content22207_2
04-02-2016, 05:11 PM
"just make sure the owner has loosened *MOST* of the 17mm fasteners on the drive axles to make them easier to remove"

Fixed that for you.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
04-04-2016, 08:52 PM
This morning I had to make a rush trip to Southern Pines to get a replacement stove for my church (that's the way my life goes), but after a very late lunch I was able to put Derrin's carb and one of his manifolds on my car to test drive it. Drives just fine. Indistinguishable from my Volvo manifold.

41284

Peugeot throttle cable bracket is *VERY* close to my mechanical fuel pump. Throttle cable clears OK, but there's no way I could thread a shift point cable in. If anybody gets a Peugeot conversion and a mechanical fuel pump I will need to re-engineer the bracket (Derrin is going to use electric pumps in his tanks so there's no problem).

41285 41287

There's 2.125" difference between Peugeot carb mounting point and Volvo -- I made an extended throttle cable mount for when I go back to my Volvo manifold:

41288

Still need to make air filter lids, charcoal canister blockoff plates, fuel filter brackets, fuel pump carriers, etc, but hopefully that won't take much longer. Need to wake my school bus up from winter hibernation for a field trip this weekend, so I'm working around that.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Jimmyd
04-04-2016, 10:40 PM
This morning I had to make a rush trip to Southern Pines to get a replacement stove for my church (that's the way my life goes), but after a very late lunch I was able to put Derrin's carb and one of his manifolds on my car to test drive it. Drives just fine. Indistinguishable from my Volvo manifold.

41284

Peugeot throttle cable bracket is *VERY* close to my mechanical fuel pump. Throttle cable clears OK, but there's no way I could thread a shift point cable in. If anybody gets a Peugeot conversion and a mechanical fuel pump I will need to re-engineer the bracket (Derrin is going to use electric pumps in his tanks so there's no problem).

41285 41287

There's 2.125" difference between Peugeot carb mounting point and Volvo -- I made an extended throttle cable mount for when I go back to my Volvo manifold:

41288

Still need to make air filter lids, charcoal canister blockoff plates, fuel filter brackets, fuel pump carriers, etc, but hopefully that won't take much longer. Need to wake my school bus up from winter hibernation for a field trip this weekend, so I'm working around that.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Thanks for the update Bill

content22207_2
04-05-2016, 01:40 PM
Like I said: these carb conversions are competing with 1,001 other projects (just discovered the bus' backup light switch is broken, and one of the mirrors is cracked -- it's always something):

41303

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
04-06-2016, 07:19 PM
I don't like to tow with the steering axle on the ground. Not only are you totally dependent upon the steering wheel lock, but if the steering wheel doesn't lock totally straight ahead you end up fighting the car. It's OK around town, but towing several hundred miles like that would be exhausting. Does save you from pulling the driveshaft/drive axles on an automatic.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I wouldn't recommend towing backwards on a dolly for long distances for both the much higher amount of work that needs to be done in order to avoid damage to the louvers and potentially the body, plus the ground clearance on the Spoiler. However, if you do need to tow for a short distance on a dolly, you should never, EVER rely solely upon the steering column lock to secure the direction of the front wheels. That is just dumb. You need to straighten the wheels out, and then secure the wheel using the seat belt.

NEVER remain totally dependent upon the steering wheel lock!

http://cliff.hostkansas.com/pffimages/GrapeApe-steeringwheel.JPG

norcimo
04-14-2016, 02:35 PM
What is the real advantage of going carb? more HP? please give me specifics.

thank you

eagle-co94
04-14-2016, 03:24 PM
Probably the best reason is if you find a car that's been sitting and K-jet has gone to crap. It's easily a couple thousand to get it running again whereas a carb swap will get the car running faster for much less.

content22207_2
04-14-2016, 05:52 PM
Actually only one owner I have helped converted to carburetion because his K-Jet wasn't working (Bob Babcock). Everyone else did it as an elective procedure.

Each owner can cite his own particular reasons for converting. In my case K-Jet wasn't an option (nor any other multiport injection system) -- my replacement engine has no injector bungs in its heads. I also prefer simplicity and reliability of carburetion. And it's nice not having a bunch of fuel injection components in the way of basic engine maintenance and repair.

My car also draws less than 60 amps, largely due to the lack of K-Jet components (not just the ECU's, idle air & frequency valve, etc -- I'm also running a mechanical fuel pump). A 90 amp alternator provides more than enough electricity for my needs.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Farrar
04-14-2016, 08:28 PM
What is the real advantage of going carb?

If you like carburetors more than you like K-Jet, then it is to your advantage to "go carb." That's the real advantage.

MountainGoat
04-19-2016, 12:43 PM
Hi Bill -- I'm on the waiting list (Steve Conley) from the other forum, now watching this thread too :) Awesome progress!

content22207_2
04-19-2016, 01:13 PM
Awesome progress!

Not really. I'm about a month behind pouring some concrete, so that's lept to the front of the line:

41548

I'm working on these conversions as much as I can (there are a couple of other projects ongoing as well). Darren's carb and one of his manifolds have been on my car for a couple of weeks now. I've got Greg Williams' carb and manifold ready to test drive next (I'm doing the Peugeot manifolds first). Hopefully this week I can finish off the accessories (fuel filter assemblies, fuel pump carriers, etc) to get Darren's and Greg's conversions boxed up. James Dolan is the last Peugeot conversion, then I'll start on the dual planes.

Over the weekend I bought a can of tuna fish to make some tuna casserole, and a fuel tank baffle.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
04-19-2016, 01:22 PM
Concrete was delayed until I bought some rims to mount a pair of Load Range E tires. I've got three pallets of concrete to pour. Believe it or not the truck isn't sitting on the rear axle (it's close, but still a couple of inches away). Helper springs help, but I really don't think they were designed for 3,400 lbs of concrete (the nice boys at Lowes also had a hard time loading the pallet -- it's actually sitting behind the rear axle).

41549 41550

Bill Robertson
#5939

Jimmyd
04-19-2016, 06:36 PM
Concrete was delayed until I bought some rims to mount a pair of Load Range E tires. I've got three pallets of concrete to pour. Believe it or not the truck isn't sitting on the rear axle (it's close, but still a couple of inches away). Helper springs help, but I really don't think they were designed for 3,400 lbs of concrete (the nice boys at Lowes also had a hard time loading the pallet -- it's actually sitting behind the rear axle).

41549 41550

Bill Robertson
#5939

Thanks for the update BIll-James Dolan

MountainGoat
04-19-2016, 07:01 PM
Concrete was delayed until I bought some rims to mount a pair of Load Range E tires. I've got three pallets of concrete to pour. Believe it or not the truck isn't sitting on the rear axle (it's close, but still a couple of inches away). Helper springs help, but I really don't think they were designed for 3,400 lbs of concrete (the nice boys at Lowes also had a hard time loading the pallet -- it's actually sitting behind the rear axle).

41549 41550

Bill Robertson
#5939

Wow ... that is amazing. Poor truck :)

DMCMW Dave
04-19-2016, 11:35 PM
Julee and I were driving through eastern North Carolina today on the way to South Carolina from the Outer Banks. We took kind of a back-road route, and I think I found Bill's shop. Look closely over the entry door in the right hand photo (I added a close-up detail).

These two pictures could stitch together left/right (I zoomed in on the left one for some reason I don't recall), and I really took them today.

4156641567 41568.

Drive Stainless
04-20-2016, 01:17 AM
Reliable Carburetor? Isn't that an oxymoron? :)

content22207_2
04-20-2016, 08:57 AM
I believe "redundant" is the word you are looking for.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
04-21-2016, 10:57 AM
Concrete was delayed until I bought some rims to mount a pair of Load Range E tires. I've got three pallets of concrete to pour. Believe it or not the truck isn't sitting on the rear axle (it's close, but still a couple of inches away). Helper springs help, but I really don't think they were designed for 3,400 lbs of concrete (the nice boys at Lowes also had a hard time loading the pallet -- it's actually sitting behind the rear axle).

41549 41550

Bill Robertson
#5939

Why wouldn't you just use a trailer to haul a load that heavy?

Aside from being much cheaper than all of these "upgrades" you installed, it's a helluva lot safer. You're running a massive risk at permanently damaging your chassis by bending it, and you're endangering your own life if you get into an accident. Not just because you've placed so much weight behind the rear axle and risk loosing control, but because if you're at speed and hit something, that cargo is going to shift and could crush you to death when it comes flying forward. There's a reason that trucks designed to haul loads like that have safety barriers and racks behind the cabs.

content22207_2
04-21-2016, 02:27 PM
Why wouldn't you just use a trailer to haul a load that heavy?

Because I don't have a trailer....

Rear axle Gross Weight is 3,166 -- I was well less than half a ton over.

This isn't my first trip to this rodeo. I've hauled three pallets of concrete and two pallets of shingles (no telling what the tree man who owned the truck before me hauled). Weak link has always been the Load Range B rear tires. I've now got a pair of Load Range E trailer tires I can air up to 80 PSI.

People haul all kinds of crap in half ton pickups. Rear axle is only semi-floating, so I wouldn't make a daily practice of it, but for the occasional pallet it works just fine.

It's my truck anyway so I don't see why you're upset. You use your truck however you want and I'll use my truck however I want.

Just explaining to people waiting on these carb conversions what other projects are interfering....

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
04-21-2016, 02:29 PM
Truck rides better with the pallet of concrete centered over the rear axle:

41589

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
04-21-2016, 02:31 PM
For those who don't want to throw peanuts from the sidelines:

Fuel pump carriers and fuel filter brackets are now finished:

41590

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
04-21-2016, 02:44 PM
And I made tuna casserole last night (I need the can for a fuel tank baffle).

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
04-21-2016, 04:49 PM
Because I don't have a trailer....

Rear axle Gross Weight is 3,166 -- I was well less than half a ton over.

This isn't my first trip to this rodeo. I've hauled three pallets of concrete and two pallets of shingles (no telling what the tree man who owned the truck before me hauled). Weak link has always been the Load Range B rear tires. I've now got a pair of Load Range E trailer tires I can air up to 80 PSI.

People haul all kinds of crap in half ton pickups. Rear axle is only semi-floating, so I wouldn't make a daily practice of it, but for the occasional pallet it works just fine.

It's my truck anyway so I don't see why you're upset. You use your truck however you want and I'll use my truck however I want.

Just explaining to people waiting on these carb conversions what other projects are interfering....

Bill Robertson
#5939

A trailer is about $40 from U-haul to rent, and much cheaper than those tires alone. Not to mention your helper springs and whatever else you've got.

And Gross Axle Weight Rating is NOT payload capacity. That's simply what an axle can carry, and not what you can put into the bed. For that # you need to Take the Rear GAWR and subtract the weight of the passengers, campershell, suspension, the chassis, the body, the bumper, the wiring, the fuel tanks, and the amount of fuel inside of them, etc. Whatever number you're left with, that is your payload capacity. Which for your truck is probably only varies between 1,300 to 2,000 lbs depending upon options. Which all that concrete is WAY over the capacity limit either way.

Yeah, it's your truck and all, and you can most certainly do with it what you want to. But it just seems to me you didn't know how to use it safely. Because what you're doing is really dangerous.

content22207_2
04-21-2016, 05:25 PM
Let's just agree to disagree.

You have a well established history of writing very lengthy diatribes against everything I do. Chances of me pleasing you now are nil.

To be brutally honest I don't know why you don't have me on your ignore list.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Jimmyd
04-21-2016, 06:22 PM
Let's just agree to disagree.

You have a well established history of writing very lengthy diatribes against everything I do. Chances of me pleasing you now are nil.

To be brutally honest I don't know why you don't have me on your ignore list.

Bill Robertson
#5939

The pieces look good Bill thanks for the update-James Dolan

DMCVegas
04-21-2016, 07:55 PM
Let's just agree to disagree.

You have a well established history of writing very lengthy diatribes against everything I do. Chances of me pleasing you now are nil.

To be brutally honest I don't know why you don't have me on your ignore list.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Disagreements are fine for opinions, but not facts. I don't have you on an ignore list because you keep spouting out incorrect, and at times like this, dangerous information that needs not merely an opposing view for the sake of countering it, but rather a truthful one for safety's sake.

And never please me? You drive a Ford truck as well. Hell, we're practically twinsies!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3xVwxASiTPU/VH-OFvYsy5I/AAAAAAAAL5E/dEJokU38j5k/s1600/Kevin-Hart-Shaquille-O%E2%80%99Neal-twins-2-03.jpg

content22207_2
04-21-2016, 08:26 PM
Greg Williams' conversion:

41591

You can tell it apart from Darren's conversion because I am holding Darren's carb in my hand (there are a couple of other nuanced differences):

41592

I know it's been a long time coming, but these conversions are close to being finished. Thanks to everybody for being patient.

Bill Robertson
#5939

MountainGoat
04-21-2016, 08:28 PM
For those who don't want to throw peanuts from the sidelines:

Fuel pump carriers and fuel filter brackets are now finished:

41590

Bill Robertson
#5939

Looking beautiful! :)

content22207_2
04-23-2016, 12:02 PM
Yeah, it's your truck and all, and you can most certainly do with it what you want to. But it just seems to me you didn't know how to use it safely. Because what you're doing is really dangerous.

For Robert: a pallet of sand (only 1,750 lbs, so the truck walked this home without breaking a sweat):

41647 41648

(Lowes has it on clearance for $1.69 a bag).

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
04-27-2016, 07:22 PM
Fuel injector plugs and fuel tank baffles:

41715

These conversions are competing with concrete pouring and other yard projects, but I *AM* working on them whenever possible.

Obviously need to make some more tank baffles (I am eating tuna casserole whenever possible...).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Jimmyd
04-27-2016, 07:30 PM
Looks good Bill -thanks for the update
Fuel injector plugs and fuel tank baffles:

41715

These conversions are competing with concrete pouring and other yard projects, but I *AM* working on them whenever possible.

Obviously need to make some more tank baffles (I am eating tuna casserole whenever possible...).

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
04-29-2016, 06:27 PM
Air filter lids and charcoal canister blockoff plates:

41733

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
04-29-2016, 06:36 PM
And a freshly scrubbed school bus (that's what chewed up most of my time and energy today):

41734

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
05-02-2016, 01:01 PM
Yeah, it's your truck and all, and you can most certainly do with it what you want to. But it just seems to me you didn't know how to use it safely. Because what you're doing is really dangerous.

While I was getting my school bus inspected this morning Haney's came lumbering into the parking lot in this bad boy:

41811

I assure you: there are people who abuse their trucks far worse than me.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Rich_NYS
05-02-2016, 01:51 PM
While I was getting my school bus inspected this morning Haney's came lumbering into the parking lot in this bad boy:

41811

I assure you: there are people who abuse their trucks far worse than me.

Bill Robertson
#5939


A friend of mine posted this on Facebook last week:

41812

The person who posted it used to live where this happened.

content22207_2
05-06-2016, 09:54 AM
Yeah, it's your truck and all, and you can most certainly do with it what you want to. But it just seems to me you didn't know how to use it safely. Because what you're doing is really dangerous.

Another day, another pallet of concrete:

41872

I am about a month behind getting all this concrete poured before summer (and the monsoon season isn't helping). I will get back to carb conversions ASAP.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCMW Dave
05-06-2016, 02:26 PM
Another day, another pallet of concrete:

41872

I am about a month behind getting all this concrete poured before summer (and the monsoon season isn't helping). I will get back to carb conversions ASAP.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Is all this really saving that much over a Redi-Mix truck? Seems like a lot of work.


Sent from phone

Rich_NYS
05-06-2016, 02:45 PM
Is all this really saving that much over a Redi-Mix truck? Seems like a lot of work.

+1

It appears no break-even analysis was performed on this job...lol.

eagle-co94
05-06-2016, 03:55 PM
Can a mod strip these off-topic complaints about someone's choice in concrete into another thread? This is ridiculous.

content22207_2
05-06-2016, 06:18 PM
a) I am showing people what I am working on instead of their carb conversions

b) I am showing Robert that the world won't end if you haul a pallet in the back of an F150 on an occasional basis (rear axle is only semi-floating so I wouldn't do it on a daily basis)

To answer Dave's question: a pallet is .93 cubic yards. This is my second pallet this year. I would pay a short charge for 2 yards that would negate any ready mix cost saving. Concrete in a bag cost 20%-30% more than 5 plus yards of ready mix (no short charge), but there's no way I could pour and float 5 yards by myself. And this year I am only going to pour 2.5 pallets anyway, in a variety of 3 and 4 foot wide pours. There's no way a truck would have come out to do the 3x24 foot apron in front of my garage (.75 yards). Concrete trucks definitely have their place and purpose, but sidewalk size pours is not one of them.

I do have an electric mixer that takes most of the sting out of mixing it myself.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
05-06-2016, 06:27 PM
This apron used 35 bags of concrete, or .77 cubic yards. If I called Ready Mix and asked them to bring me less than a yard of concrete they would hang up on me.

41877

There's a place and purpose for concrete trucks, and there's a place and purpose for a pallet of concrete in the back of your pickup truck.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCMW Dave
05-06-2016, 06:54 PM
Can a mod strip these off-topic complaints about someone's choice in concrete into another thread? This is ridiculous.

Well - it is Bills thread. . .


This apron used 35 bags of concrete, or .77 cubic yards. If I called Ready Mix and asked them to bring me less than a yard of concrete they would hang up on me.

41877

There's a place and purpose for concrete trucks, and there's a place and purpose for a pallet of concrete in the back of your pickup truck.

Bill Robertson
#5939


Makes sense, I was thinking you were pouring a whole driveway or something one truckload at a time.

content22207_2
05-06-2016, 07:27 PM
I don't have a bull float so I couldn't do a driveway even if I wanted to. My hand float is 24" which works perfectly for 3 and 4 foot wide pours.

A driveway needs at least two people anyway.

And a backhoe.

If I ever get the bright idea to excavate a driveway with a wheelbarrow and a shovel you have my permission to take me away.

Bill Robertson
#5939

DMCVegas
05-06-2016, 07:31 PM
b) I am showing Robert that the world won't end if you haul a pallet in the back of an F150 on an occasional basis (rear axle is only semi-floating so I wouldn't do it on a daily basis)

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/rolling_eyes_neil_degrasse_tyson.gif

All it takes is one time for you to overload that truck to either make it ass-heavy to slide and/or flip, bend your chassis to compromise the safety of a vehicle, or have a load shift and crush you to death. The world may not end for the rest of us, but it'll end for your ass with a quickness. You risking your own life pays me no nevermind, but it's gonna suck if anyone else gets hurt because of your disregard for both physics and common damn sense. The freedom to be an dick doesn't grant you the automatic freedom to be a dick to other people.

But let's face it, Bill, you ain't sharing photos because you're trying to keep people happy. You're just once again fishing for pity by tossing another one of your typical Pity Parties. "Woe is me, for I am just SOOOO busy! Please forgive me for nothing, and please keep flooding me with complements because I crave attention so bad!" Which is why you invoked my name in the hopes that you could start a fight with me so that other people would feel sorry for you being on yet another loosing end of an argument.

content22207_2
05-06-2016, 07:57 PM
In the bad old days (pre-Amazon) one of the advantages of Ready Mix over bagged concrete was the addition of fiber reinforcement. Now you can buy it online and add while mixing: http://www.amazon.com/32-500-4-Inch-Anti-Crak-Concrete-Fibers/dp/B000CODWAE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462574887&sr=8-1

I actually buy mine off eBay because Amazon has raised free shipping to $45.

Fiber reinforcement is extremely low cost and worth every penny. I've got a fiber reinforced 18x40 foot slab since the 1990's, only 3.5 inches thick, with no expansion joints and not a single crack. Fiber's no match for tree roots of course.

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207_2
05-07-2016, 08:40 PM
But let's face it, Bill, you ain't sharing photos because you're trying to keep people happy. You're just once again fishing for pity by tossing another one of your typical Pity Parties. "Woe is me, for I am just SOOOO busy! Please forgive me for nothing, and please keep flooding me with complements because I crave attention so bad!" Which is why you invoked my name in the hopes that you could start a fight with me so that other people would feel sorry for you being on yet another loosing end of an argument.

Actually I invoked your name because you flew off the handle when I hauled some concrete (notice the quoted post). I've hauled sand and another pallet of concrete since, and the world still didn't come to an end.

Half a dozen people have been waiting patiently for these conversions to get finished. I suspect they appreciate status updates. It's no different than Tom explaining that his LED door lights are delayed because he caught the flu.

This afternoon I assembled a carb for James:

41893

This is the last of the Peugeot conversions, then I will start on the dual planes. Need to paint his throttle cable bracket and make a return spring (they're custom cut to size), then it will be ready to test drive. I've been driving Greg's conversion for several weeks now.

As soon as Suzy gets the air filter labels I can box up Darren's and Greg's conversions. James' will probably be ready by then too.

Bill Robertson
#5939