The TesLorean

[DrJeff]

TesLorean is the codename for my (now) long-term project to create an Electric Drive DeLorean.

I bought #6313 in 2012 with the sole intention of converting the car to electric - eventually. In the meantime, I have been fixing, customizing, and upgrading various parts of the car. The overall goal was to have a car that could last another 30 years being actively driven. In 2012-2014 I spent most of my efforts on getting the car running right, fixing small things, and upgrading the interior. It has turned out to be a very good example of a well stored car - with signs of occasional fixes and repairs. Like most owners/tinkerers I can't think of many parts of the car I haven't fixed, rebuilt, or upgraded in some fashion or another. My joy in this comes from the process of learning how to convert a car to electric and all things automotive. I will certainly enjoy driving it when its finished, but I'm getting as much of a kick out of the designing and building process. Even when it is done, I doubt I'll have stopped modifying and customizing it. I don't see the car so much as a collectors item as a creative automotive platform. Having said that, I have not modified the exterior of the car and it will remain stock looking (at least to the casual observer).

Since I knew the electric conversion was going to take a long time, I planned to convert the car to EFI so that I could enjoy driving it prior to the laydown period. However, the plans got waylaid by moving house in 2014. The house and family (2 grandkids) have taken up a lot of my available time, but it is starting to come back into balance. Now in 2016, the next time #6313 is on the road it will be as an electric drive vehicle.

I'm going to use this tread to document the conversion process (which I'll largely be doing myself) and all the related work (of which there are many tasks). I'm reluctant to set a deadline for conversion (other than "before the kids take my driving license off me for my own safety"), but I'm hopeful that in the next few years the TesLorean will be driving.

Oh, and about the codename... TesLorean. When I first started the conversion process (i.e. design) one of the main concerns was not ending up with a glorified golf cart - this car had to be able to honor its design roots and that meant speed, acceleration, and handling. While I haven't finalized how much or which Tesla engineering to incorporate into the car, for me Tesla's electric design and engineering set the standard for future sports car performance.

It's going to be an interesting ride to get #6313 converted into DMC-EV.

[FPBBrandon]

Interested to watch and see how this develops!

[Peripatetic]

I've heard a method of electric conversion is to buy a salvage electric car and put the components on the new car. Are you planning the same with the Teslorean? Perhaps a salvaged Roadster or Model S or something. Having never looked at the parts of a Roadster I'm guessing it would be easier to fit.

[DrJeff]

I've heard a method of electric conversion is to buy a salvage electric car and put the components on the new car. Are you planning the same with the Teslorean? Perhaps a salvaged Roadster or Model S or something. Having never looked at the parts of a Roadster I'm guessing it would be easier to fit.

I've looked at all the options... There are three main components to consider, 1) motor, 2) transmission, 3) battery. Here's a quick round-up of the main options (not in priority order)...

Motor/Transmission
1) Tesla Model S Rear motor/inverter/transmission
- Replace the D's motor and transmission with the Rear drive unit from a Model S
- Still developing options (multiple) for driving/controlling the Model S motor (best classified as Beta-testing, but promising)
- Would require significant modifications to the D's rear subframe (significant as in potentially replace)
- Note: Putting just the Tesla motor into the stock D transmission is a complex high risk engineering challenge

2) Tesla Model S 'D' Motor/inverter/transmission
- Use one drive unit from the Tesla dual drive unit configuration (new 70D or 90D models)
- Fewer modifications to the rear subframe
- less power (but could it be enough?)

3) Custom motor/adapter and stock transmission
- EV-West dual or triple motor design linked to the stock DeLorean transmission
- Frame mostly unmodified (maybe mounting points for motor and batteries)

Note: Leaf, Volt, other drive units are configured for FWD and the hacking community has not had a lot of success in controlling or transferring these into other vehicles.

Batteries
1) Tesla battery modules from Model S
- Significant modifications/hacking needed to configure the batteries (fewer batteries, but still near 400v)
- The hacking community is coming up with solutions, but...

2) Chevy Volt battery (probably 2+ units)
- Probably the least expensive batteries available, but they do have an awkward size

3) Nissan Leaf batteries
- Unique chemistry, don't have active cooling, but are very reconfigurable to fit into the D's nooks and crannies
- Lots of community solutions coming up

4) Off the Shelf Batteries (e.g. CALB)
- Expensive, but a well known product within the EV car building world

5) Mr. Fusion
- Units are available, but don't appear to be functional, some development required

[DrJeff]

One of the challenges/benefits of electric drive is instant max torque. The challenge component of this means that there is a greater risk of loss of traction. A Tesla Model S solution is to monitor the speed of each rear wheel (in the rear drive models) and to apply a combination of reduced power and instantaneous braking to individual wheels.

So the question becomes, how best to measure the speed of the individual rear wheels? Is the only option... having magnets & sensor mounted at the wheel / transmission side (on each side)?

Thanks
Jeff

[Chris4099]

I would expect a true traction control system to actually requires sensors at all 4 wheels. Similar to ABS. I think a better solution would be to limit the power output at certain RPMs. Wait until you know the car would be moving and then have the controller ramp up power. This is also assuming you go with a fixed gear setup and the motor reports RPMs. It wouldn't be optimized for all conditions, but could at least keep you from breaking the wheels loose all the time and damaging the motor mounts.

Even with the reduced power at lower RPMs, you should still have a nice instant torque feel. Even though I've had an EV for nearly 3 years now, it still amazes me that when on the freeway I can floor it and the car starts accelerating even before I can get the "gas" pedal all the way to the floor. :)

[jangell]

This is all the purely theoretical, and I've done only basic research to date:

One thing I'd like to do (maybe in 10 years or so) is two electric motors, one for each of the rear wheels. I'd independently control the power of each motor. I'd also have to simulate a differential by taking into account the steering angle and changing the speed of each motor appropriately. If the motor didn't report its own speed directly, I was expecting to use a magnetic or optical sensor to get the true motor speed as closely as I could. The hardest part seemed to be mounting two motors and setting up the gearing to the transaxles. Some watchdogs on the motor speeds would cut power entirely if they detected that one motor was turning far faster than the other (most likely due to a bug in my code that's trying to kill me).

For slipping, you could possibly test for the amount of power used by the motor. If it suddenly spikes, you could consider a wheel to be slipping and reduce power. Tracking wheel rotation directly seems better, though.

This wouldn't be a proper traction control, or whatever the one is where it looks at the steering wheel angle and the actual direction of the car (via accelerometers/gyros) that individually applies each brakes to point you in the right direction. Also, I'm not willing to try to write my own braking system. I mean, I though it would be cool to add ABS, and in principle it seems straight forward and I'm a pretty decent programmer, but I don't have a test track, and I just know that my custom brake system would probably lead to my death.

-- Joe

[PJ Grady Inc.]

Catchy name! Hopefully Elon won't mind.:spank:
Rob

[Tamir A.]

Appears someone already purchased the domain name. Funny stuff.

T.


Catchy name! Hopefully Elon won't mind.:spank:
Rob

[DrJeff]

That was me :)

[Tamir A.]

Smart man. :)


That was me :)

[DrJeff]

I would expect a true traction control system to actually requires sensors at all 4 wheels. Similar to ABS. I think a better solution would be to limit the power output at certain RPMs. Wait until you know the car would be moving and then have the controller ramp up power. This is also assuming you go with a fixed gear setup and the motor reports RPMs. It wouldn't be optimized for all conditions, but could at least keep you from breaking the wheels loose all the time and damaging the motor mounts.

Even with the reduced power at lower RPMs, you should still have a nice instant torque feel. Even though I've had an EV for nearly 3 years now, it still amazes me that when on the freeway I can floor it and the car starts accelerating even before I can get the "gas" pedal all the way to the floor. :)

If I go with the Tesla drive unit, it includes the transmission (single gear - sandwiched between the inverter and motor). The transmission differential is not limited slip, so you could have one wheel spinning and another stationary (admittedly unusual conditions - oil slick under one wheel) - but with the high instant torque it is more likely that in an stock (engine) car. My plan is to put a pulse unit in place of the Lambda counter to get an independent read of the vehicle road speed and to compare that to the 1) the motor rotation and 2) the speed from each rear wheel. The vehicle speed to the motor rotation might be enough of a clue to command the power controls to ease off (whether both wheels are spinning or one is spinning).

One thought one reading the rear wheel speeds is to combine a variable reluctor sensor (http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/pickups.htm) mounted so as to detect the passing bolt heads at the CV joint or at the transmission end of the driveshaft. Alternatively the bolts could 'host' magnets somehow, a hall effect sensor might be more reliable. The bolts at the end of the driveshafts have the advantage of holding a fixed position (even with suspension travel) relative to other mounting points.

Other Tesla investigators have indicated that the Tesla uses the electronic brakes on the rear to act as a support for traction control. If a wheel begins to spin - apply a momentary brake, to provide the other wheel with some drive. I can't validate that this is the method, but it sounds plausible. Would I want to drive a vehicle with a home made system that could selectively apply the brakes to a wheel if it detected a slip? Hmm, not sure about that. Would I be more comfortable with a system that just detected if the vehicle speed varied greatly from the motor speed and adjusted the motor speed accordingly? A bit better, if the vehicle speed detector was reliable enough. Would having four sources of vehicle/motor/wheels speeds be a good idea? I think so, if it can be done.

Jeff

[DrJeff]

Two photos of the rear motor from a 2015 Tesla 70D (dual identical motor version), 259HP drive unit. The drive unit includes the motor, the inverter (DC to AC), and the transmission. The photo with the front suspension parts gives a good impression of the unit size. Suffice to say it's small.

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I'm under no illusion that this is going to be easy or quick, or supported by vendors, or anything other than going where no one has gone before.

This is going to be fun.

[delgato]

Two photos of the rear motor from a 2015 Tesla 70D (dual identical motor version), 259HP drive unit. The drive unit includes the motor, the inverter (DC to AC), and the transmission.

Wow that is cool. Were you able to buy that unit new from Tesla direct or is it from a wrecked out car?

I would be really interest what that cost however, I would understand if you did not answer that.

Is there other proprietary parts needed with that motor set up?

For instance will you need a Tesla controller and other Tesla specific parts to get that working correctly?

I am very interested in what you are doing there. I am planning to do an EV with my car once it is back together.

I had thought of the Tesla set up but was unsure if a motor was obtainable.

I would love to see lots of pics of your progress as it goes. I am really interested to learn how you end up mounting the motor, batteries, and everything else.

I have a bunch of other questions once you get a bit further into this build.

Keep us posted please.

Good luck to you.

[Chris4099]

Wow that is cool. Were you able to buy that unit new from Tesla direct or is it from a wrecked out car?

I would be really interest what that cost however, I would understand if you did not answer that.

Is there other proprietary parts needed with that motor set up?

For instance will you need a Tesla controller and other Tesla specific parts to get that working correctly?

I'm would expect it to be out of a wrecked car. Tesla doesn't sell many parts to general public. You can't for example, go to a Tesla service center and order up a 70kWh battery pack from the parts counter. You have to be a registered owner and have the part installed by them and they take the old part in return. So all these Tesla drive modules people have are from wrecked cars.

As for controlling them, there's already a guy that makes a controller board that speaks "Tesla" to the motor. Granted I haven't followed that carefully yet, so I'm not aware of any actual swaps it's been installed in yet. Just the last YouTube demo I saw was showing it controlling a Tesla motor on the work bench.

I too am looking forward to seeing how this turns out. As an owner of both a DeLorean and Tesla Model S, this hits close to home for me! :)

[DrJeff]

I've picked up your Questions and had a shot at Answers....

Q: Were you able to buy that unit new from Tesla direct or is it from a wrecked out car?
A: It is from a salvage 2015 Model S 70D. Looks like it hit a snow bank front on - about the best possible case for a salvage car. Written off due to repair costs - probably salvage decision mostly driven by the crack in the front frame. I got the rear motor. The rear was beautiful - as rears often can be.

Q: I would be really interest what that cost however, I would understand if you did not answer that.
A: Salvage teslas can be got for $20-30k (if they were flooded they could be $15-20k - but you'd be taking a significant risk as regards damage to the battery and electronics). The battery modules (if undamaged) are worth about $12-15k and find homes in automotive and non-automotive applications (solar panel backup power). My motor was advertised on 'DIY Electric Car' for $4500. Apart from the motors there are many interesting parts on the car.

Q: Is there other proprietary parts needed with that motor set up?
A: You need a battery pack that can support 400v and sufficient amps (C rating - the battery capacity can limit the HP output of the motor - you'll see references to "Battery HP"). The proprietary bits are the CAN codes that instruct the motor. The biggest challenge is going to be controlling the motor, either figure out the CAN messages that the motor responds to (EVTV has done this for the large rear motor in earlier and performance Teslas), or replace the motor controller (Michal Elias has done this - also for a large rear motor), or you could replace the controller and power stage (some developing examples here on other motors). So far as I know today - no one has 'controlled' the new 2015 motor out of the 70D model. So there's risk here, but I feel the trajectory of attempts and knowledge is heading in the right direction, and I hope to contribute to that.

Q: For instance will you need a Tesla controller and other Tesla specific parts to get that working correctly?
A: The drive unit includes the inverter and controller. The drive unit takes as input the + and - high voltage DC, and a CAN connection. The motor controller is included in the inverter.

Q: I had thought of the Tesla set up but was unsure if a motor was obtainable.
A: Only through salvage, although you could buy a Tesla and pick it apart. I've been surprised how many salvage Teslas are available, although the hassle of getting a salvage car varies from state to state, and the cause of the salvage is very important. The main reason for picking the smaller rear motor from the new 70D was fitting the motor into the space left when the PRV V6 comes out. The large rear motor from the earlier Tesla models and the performance models is over 30 inches wide. If you look at where the tesla transmission sits (between the motor and inverter) and where the drive shafts need to be located, it would have meant (essentially) removing and rebuilding the rear subframe and suspension of the Delorean to fit it in. The space at the bottom of our engine cradle is about 16-18 inches wide. The rear small Tesla motor stands a decent chance of fitting into the existing engine cradle (with the drive shaft out points in a usable position) - but I've no doubt some modifications will be needed, above and beyond mounts. I'm only going to know for sure once I lift the PRV/transmission out and trial lower the 70D in.

[DrJeff]

As part of the process of converting to Electric, lots of parts are no longer needed. My plan is to post them in the For Sale section on the forum. While some of the parts are standalone (new style fuel pump/sender unit), others could be bundled (EFI Conversion : megasquirt, fuel rails, low profile injectors, etc.). My plan is to bundle first, and if it doesn't sell, to list the items separately. There are so many items that I'm going to list them as I have them ready-to-ship, so it could take a while. I took an inventory of "parts already off the car" or purchased "waiting to go on car" in storage buckets and came to 200 separate items (not counting multiples), of which probably one third will be offered for sale. Items currently "yet to be de-installed from the car" probably account for another 20 items.

The item that I'm most curious about how to sell is the engine, as I've never sold or bought an engine before. At the moment the engine is stripped down at the top (heads still on), done to clean the valley in preparation for the EFI project that never was due to a house move.

Jeff

[DMage]

Suggest you reach out to the following members over @ teslamotorsclub.com - wk057, ingineer, and btr_ftw

All have torn into Model S components either through salvage dismantling or out of curiosity to bench test. Unless the motor is much simpler to apply signals to than I imagine, the hardest part will be the CAN communication to it that may require additional components.

[DrJeff]

Suggest you reach out to the following members over @ teslamotorsclub.com - wk057, ingineer, and btr_ftw

All have torn into Model S components either through salvage dismantling or out of curiosity to bench test. Unless the motor is much simpler to apply signals to than I imagine, the hardest part will be the CAN communication to it that may require additional components.

Yeah. I've been watching their work closely. Lots and lots of developing knowledge on how the model S is put together and how the parts of it can be re-used.

Good YouTube posting this morning by Jack Ricard of EVTV (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyQpFvFbFIc) (go to minute 60 - at the 1hr mark). He talks about the smaller front motor used in the Tesla Dual motor model S.

Other people to watch are Michal Elias (replaced the motor controller on a Tesla full size motor) and Damien Maguire (building his own inverter). There are also other hobbyists on DIY Electric Car that are tackling the motor control challenges.

CANbus looks the most likely route for controlling the motor, but the alternative motor controllers provide some benefits to getting around the Tesla firmware already in the motor.

Jeff

[ucfierocharger]

Dr. Jeff, I'm a good friend of Nicholas R on the forum here, and helped him with his LS1 conversion. About the same time you started your project here, I started my own electric conversion on my Fiero (link to blog (http://carjlinn.blogspot.com/search/label/Hybrid%20Fiero%20Project)). I won't bore with non-delorean related details unless you ask, but Nick sent me a link to this thread to follow as I do mine. Basically I am looking for 100hp to power the front wheels while keeping an engine in the rear. I have decided to use the Leaf system because of this and the batteries. Obviously you're looking for a much higher output system on yours since it is the main drive. Have you seen what Jehu Garcia has done with his VW bus on youtube? Link to his youtube Electric samba here (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2l32K1w0jp-m04Jl-3PHmtapevOuCeIp) He basically built his own tesla battery packs for his DIY powerwall, and from the looks of the OEM packs he had in one video, they might fit very well in the front of the D.

I'm by no means an expert in any of this at all, but seeing as we are trying to do similar things, if you have anything you want to bounce off me, PM me.

I really look forward to seeing this happen!

[DrJeff]

... I have decided to use the Leaf system because of this and the batteries. Obviously you're looking for a much higher output system on yours since it is the main drive. Have you seen what Jehu Garcia has done with his VW bus on youtube?

Taking on the Leaf system takes some guts - from what I've read it is a highly integrated unit and difficult to hack. I have been watching the Electric Samba VW project. I haven't landed on a battery design yet, but I'm leaning away from anything too hacked-up, just not sure how to explain why the garage burned down to the wife :)

I made some posts tonight on the "DIY Electric Car" forum about starting to reverse engineer the iBooster brake system from the Model S (with autopilot) and the Tesla 100% electric AC compressor. So far the AC compressor looks like it will be straightforward. The iBooster (a no vacuum, 100% hydraulic & electric) brake system is going to be much more involved to figure out.

This weekend I'm just hoping to get the front suspension back in the car. If everything goes good I should have one of those 'suspension money shots' by Sunday. I won't have the calipers in yet as I'm still powder coating them (a slow process with a small volume oven).

[Chris4099]

Why not just get a vacuum pump and reservoir? That way you can reuse the standard DeLorean brake booster/MC. My Tesla is the older version that uses a vacuum pump (pre-AP hardware change) and it works just fine. Also keeps you from having to convert the HVAC system as it uses vacuum too.

[DrJeff]

Why not just get a vacuum pump and reservoir? That way you can reuse the standard DeLorean brake booster/MC. My Tesla is the older version that uses a vacuum pump (pre-AP hardware change) and it works just fine. Also keeps you from having to convert the HVAC system as it uses vacuum too.

I could very well end up using a vacuum pump and reservoir, but the iBooster is designed to increase the energy recovered from regenerative braking AND it is just cool to reverse engineer. The driver uses the accelerator and brake as normal, but if regenerative brake is available, the iBooster balances the use of the regenerative braking with the use of actual brakes. This gets away from the EV driver - lifting off the accelerator, which activates regenerative braking, and then pressing the brake only to finally bring the car to and hold the car at stop.

There is also another benefit, active braking... the iBooster has sufficient braking power to activate the brakes on command without assistance. This could be integrated with collision avoidance. Obviously needs lots of testing and fail-safes, but interesting nonetheless.

You also don't have the noise of the vacuum pump, or any limit to the amount of braking you can do (assuming you don't have a very large reservoir).

RE: HVAC and vacuum control. I absolutely want to get away from using vacuum to activate HVAC doors.

Also: If you've got braking, steering, acceleration on command...

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Jeff

[Chris4099]

I get where you are coming from with the whole "cool" factor and reverse engineering. But if the vacuum pump is sized properly, it should be just fine. I've done long stretches of stop/go traffic on a downhill slope. I'll basically ride the brake pedal and vary the amount of pressure the whole time and never lose brake power. The pump runs a lot, but keeps up.

As for regen control, trust me do what Tesla does and keep it on the accelerator. This makes for more single pedal driving (less moving the foot back and forth between pedals). Only touch the brake pedal when you need the actual hard braking or complete stop. Simple to setup and better driving experience once you get used to it. You're driving an EV, not an ICE. Take advantage of that! :)

[DrJeff]

Got some more Tesla parts for the TesLorean...

1. Steering column and wheel (motor driven up/down, in/out adjustment, stalk controls, computer interface controls)
2. dc-dc converter (uses 400v supply to generate 12v supply)
3. high voltage (400v) junction and distribution box (sends power to AC, coolant heater, PTC cabin heater, power steering)
4. electric coolant heater
5. A/C coolant chiller (uses AC supply to chill coolant)
6. coolant pumps (x3)
7. coolant diverter valves (x4) (used to direct coolant flow as needed to the batteries, drive unit, dc-dc converter, cabin, chiller)

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[DrJeff]

They look sort of trashy in a sexy kind of way, and like most lingerie they won't be seen by the public.

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[DrJeff]

After a lot of preparation and playing with spring compressors, I finally got to test fit all the front suspension components (except the sway bar). Everything fits pretty good, after some trials with the LHS spring bowing out and striking the angle drive. Re-greased and refitted the original angle drive (creates another 5mm space) and fits the spindle nut better. Also turned the spring so that the end of the spring was outermost at the lower control arm.

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[Domi]

They look great in red :)

[SS Spoiler]

I didn't know there is supposed to be springs pushing the pads apart?
Or is this something you added?

[DrJeff]

I didn't know there is supposed to be springs pushing the pads apart?
Or is this something you added?

Hervey (SpecialTAuto) sells them as anti-chatter solutions, i.e. springs and washers. Needed a small cable tie to compress the spring while fitting. I haven't driven on them yet, so no idea if they make any difference.

[DrJeff]

I got some more Tesla Parts for the TesLorean - maybe.

- Lay (intermediate) shaft (from Tesla 70D front drive unit) [drive unit is unlikely to fit with the transmission directly in the middle of the car, so this makes it easier to make the drive shafts equal length.
- Front camera (contains the Mobileye chip for autopilot - car, pedestrian, lane markings, and speed limit sign recognition)
- Rear view mirror (low profile, info)
- Light and rain sensor
- Yaw sensor
- Accelerator pedal (double redundant potentiometers) !!! Made by Ford !!!
- Air temp sensors (from climate control)
- Wiring harness

Most of these are just interesting parts that may or may not find their way into the TesLorean. I'm very interested to see if I can reverse engineer the information coming out of the Front Camera with image recognition.

[DrJeff]

Went live with the project blog website today. www.TesLorean.com (http://www.teslorean.com)
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Many thanks to my brother-in-law who put all the smarts and graphics into the site! Lots of content to update still on all the happenings on the project.

[DrJeff]

Quick update on the TesLorean project...

Lots of powder coating on rear suspension parts and calipers. Getting closer to putting the wheel back on and starting the body/frame separation. Surprising what you can achieve with a toaster over, besides just toast. Got the bushings in after this photo, going in was fine, getting them out what a chore (needed two heavy duty washers with exactly the right ID). I used the Hervey "springs between the pads" again.
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Got some new Tesla parts. Picture is the PTC Heater (electric air heater). The design previously called for the same coolant loop that cooled/heated the drive unit & batteries to also heat the cabin, but after further study the heat from the drive unit / batteries would not show up fast enough to aid in defrosting the windows. The PCT heater uses battery voltage (400v) and can be instantly switched on/off and at six different heating levels. This also removes the need for a coolant loop into the airbox, so the coolant loops can stay with the batteries and drive unit.
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Jeff

[DrJeff]

Between vacation breaks, still forging ahead with the rear suspension rebuild..

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- Poly trailing arm bushing
- DMC Inconel bolt for the trailing arm
- SPAX shocks (adjustable)
- Powder coated, refurbished calipers
- Powder coated upper and lower control arms
- Powder coated stock rear spring
- Stainless braided flexible brake line
- Stainless caliper cross-over brake line
- Cleaned, treated, and painted frame area
(still to do : refurbish and rebuild parking brake)

[DMC-81]

Looking great! :thumbup:

[Lwanmtr]

Looks like an awesome project....hope you're documenting all of it...hehe.

[DrJeff]

I scrapped together this listing from multiple postings on this forum (thanks to all the contributors!). I've already got most of the 'disconnect' items done, but I wanted to get a checklist together to be sure I didn't miss anything.

I'll be doing the lift on a MaxJax 2 post lift, probably doing the separation at an upcoming Tech Day - so I can attract some extra eyes. Frame will be set down on wheel dollies (just to make moving it around the garage a little more flexible), and the body will go onto some mover dollies connected with a temporary frame (to make it movable - and not stuck on the lift). Once separated the engine and transmission are coming out, and ready for positioning the Tesla motor and measuring for mounts and axles.

Body Frame Separation

- Disconnect
- - Front
- - - Bracing
- - - - Front radiator shroud
- - - AC
- - - - Evaporator Lines @ passenger wheel well
- - - Coolant
- - - - Heater Core lines @ front firewall
- - - Control
- - - - Steering linkage @ firewall
- - - - Speedo cable at Angle Drive
- - - - Brake lines @ master cylinder
- - - Electrical
- - - - Radiator Fan lines @ front frame
- - - - Horn lines @ front frame
- - - - Fuel level sender wiring @ sender
- - - - fuel pump wiring @ fuel pump
- - - - Front lighting wiring/ground junction area @ front crumple tubes
- - - Fuel
- - - - Fuel filler hose @ fuel tank
- - - Hydraulics
- - - - Clutch line @ master clutch cylinder
- - - - Brake lines @ master cylinder
- - Cabin
- - - Shift boot and shifter @ console/shifter area
- - - Mode switch vacuum lines @ engine bay / driver's pontoon ?
- - Engine Bay
- - - Control
- - - - Throttle cable @ spool
- - - Electrical
- - - - Engine wiring @ connector box
- - - - O2 sensor @ sensor
- - - - Alternator Power @ alternator
- - - - Starter Power @ starter
- - - - Automatic Transmission computer lines (if applicable)
- - - - Battery ground cable @ passenger lower control arm AND @ rear frame
- - - - Frame/body grounds @ rear quarter stainless panels
- - - Emissions
- - - - Carbon Canister lines @ drivers pontoon
- - - Air
- - - - Air duct to filter box @ passenger's pontoon
- - Rear
- - - Control
- - - - Emergency Brakes @ each brake caliper / rear hub
- - Rear Fascia
- - - Engine cover release cable @ release
- - - Rear tail lights (for access)
- - - Fascia wiring assembly @ inside rear fascia
- - - Bolts along bottom of fascia
- - - Rear fascia assembly (whole)
- Bolts Removed
- - 2 bolts in the trunk bolting to shock towers
- - 2 bolts inside near center console bolting sideways into the frame
- - 2 bolts near the transmission/engine connection bolting the frame the body to the frame
- - 2 seat belt bolts @ inner side of seat
- - 2 in rear pontoons @ pontoon inside, after rear fascia removed
- - 2 above the rear shock towers (under shock tower brace)

[Lwanmtr]

Thats a big list. Cant wait to see how the project progresses.

[Nicholas R]

We should make that list alone a sticky'd post. People are often looking for a comprehensive list of the items that need disconnected in order to do a body/frame separation.

Keep up the good work! :thumbup:

[DrJeff]

Made good progress running through the checklist in preparation for the body-frame separation. As Nick suggested, I'll create a new thread with the separation checklist included, I just wanted to 'test run' it on 6313 first. I have already found some updates (such as the rear marker lights needing to be pulled back into the rear fascia), but more on that later.
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When I got the rear fascia off of 6313, it looks like I might have the frame of 6311. If you're out there 6311, I've got your frame. I've got to think that this was something that happened at the factory. Perhaps the 6313 frame was pulled from the line for a fix and 6311 stood in to keep things flowing, or 6311 was written by mistake on the rear frame? The VIN number under the headliner on the driver's door is consistent with the VIN tags, i.e. 6313.

[DMCMW Dave]

When I got the rear fascia off of 6313, it looks like I might have the frame of 6311. If you're out there 6311, I've got your frame. I've got to think that this was something that happened at the factory. Perhaps the 6313 frame was pulled from the line for a fix and 6311 stood in to keep things flowing, or 6311 was written by mistake on the rear frame? The VIN number under the headliner on the driver's door is consistent with the VIN tags, i.e. 6313.

The frame VIN almost never matches the body VIN. Seems that it wasn't particularly important to the production folks back in Ireland. In fact, most of them seem farther off than yours.

[Lwanmtr]

Yep...the number on my frame doesnt match either...hehe.

Cant wait to see more.....

[durech]

I scrapped together this listing from multiple postings on this forum (thanks to all the contributors!). I've already got most of the 'disconnect' items done, but I wanted to get a checklist together to be sure I didn't miss anything.

I'll be doing the lift on a MaxJax 2 post lift, probably doing the separation at an upcoming Tech Day - so I can attract some extra eyes. Frame will be set down on wheel dollies (just to make moving it around the garage a little more flexible), and the body will go onto some mover dollies connected with a temporary frame (to make it movable - and not stuck on the lift). Once separated the engine and transmission are coming out, and ready for positioning the Tesla motor and measuring for mounts and axles.

Body Frame Separation

- Disconnect
- - Front
- - - Bracing
- - - - Front radiator shroud
- - - AC
- - - - Evaporator Lines @ passenger wheel well
- - - Coolant
- - - - Heater Core lines @ front firewall
- - - Control
- - - - Steering linkage @ firewall
- - - - Speedo cable at Angle Drive
- - - - Brake lines @ master cylinder
- - - Electrical
- - - - Radiator Fan lines @ front frame
- - - - Horn lines @ front frame
- - - - Fuel level sender wiring @ sender
- - - - fuel pump wiring @ fuel pump
- - - - Front lighting wiring/ground junction area @ front crumple tubes
- - - Fuel
- - - - Fuel filler hose @ fuel tank
- - - Hydraulics
- - - - Clutch line @ master clutch cylinder
- - - - Brake lines @ master cylinder
- - Cabin
- - - Shift boot and shifter @ console/shifter area
- - - Mode switch vacuum lines @ engine bay / driver's pontoon ?
- - Engine Bay
- - - Control
- - - - Throttle cable @ spool
- - - Electrical
- - - - Engine wiring @ connector box
- - - - O2 sensor @ sensor
- - - - Alternator Power @ alternator
- - - - Starter Power @ starter
- - - - Automatic Transmission computer lines (if applicable)
- - - - Battery ground cable @ passenger lower control arm AND @ rear frame
- - - - Frame/body grounds @ rear quarter stainless panels
- - - Emissions
- - - - Carbon Canister lines @ drivers pontoon
- - - Air
- - - - Air duct to filter box @ passenger's pontoon
- - Rear
- - - Control
- - - - Emergency Brakes @ each brake caliper / rear hub
- - Rear Fascia
- - - Engine cover release cable @ release
- - - Rear tail lights (for access)
- - - Fascia wiring assembly @ inside rear fascia
- - - Bolts along bottom of fascia
- - - Rear fascia assembly (whole)
- Bolts Removed
- - 2 bolts in the trunk bolting to shock towers
- - 2 bolts inside near center console bolting sideways into the frame
- - 2 bolts near the transmission/engine connection bolting the frame the body to the frame
- - 2 seat belt bolts @ inner side of seat
- - 2 in rear pontoons @ pontoon inside, after rear fascia removed
- - 2 above the rear shock towers (under shock tower brace)

I look forward to another Tech Day at your house. The last one was awesome.

[Nicholas R]

The frame VIN almost never matches the body VIN. Seems that it wasn't particularly important to the production folks back in Ireland. In fact, most of them seem farther off than yours.

Dave, in your experience, have you seen many (or any) where the frame actually does match the VIN?

[DrJeff]

I have successfully decoded the LIN (Local Interconnect Network) controller that sends messages from the Tesla steering wheel (actually a Mercedes Benz column) to the micro-controllers in the steering column. This means that the buttons, scroll wheels, and horn on the Tesla wheel can be used, given that I can fit the wheel to the DeLorean, including the placement of the clock spring.

The Tesla and DeLorean steering wheels are about the same depth (front to back). The Tesla wheel has a 21mm-66 spline connection to the steering column. I believe the DeLorean is 9/16in-36 spline.

Has anyone tried (safely) fitting a non-momo wheel to the DeLorean column? and/or fitted a clock spring?

Jeff

[vwdmc16]

I really doubt anyone has put a clockspring in a DeLorean, what are you doing with the air bag? Making it non functional?

[DrJeff]

I really doubt anyone has put a clockspring in a DeLorean, what are you doing with the air bag? Making it non functional?

Airbag was rendered "non-functional" by the previous owner of the Tesla.

Fitting a clock spring looks like it will require a re-engineering of the steering column stalks and shroud. I'm working on adapting the Tesla control stalks (well 2 out of 3 - don't need the autopilot one) for use. If I can pull it off, I can accommodate the clock spring. Wilder options include wireless powering and Bluetooth for data transfer.

Jeff

[Timeless]

I'm excited to see this come to fruition! Good luck with the project :thumbup2:

[DrJeff]

Fun time lapse video (https://youtu.be/O7e3D6HuPvQ) of the body frame separation.

I'll be updating the checklist with some more details and alternatives found during separation...

new checklist items...
- rear side marker lights had to be pulled back into the rear fascia
- reverse switch connector at firewall or on transmission
- rear fascia held on by fender washers (look like post production or late production adds), get to inside of pontoon through vacuum canister door and through air intake opening.
- removing the battery and feeding the positive battery lead and grommet out of the battery box proved easier that starter/alt connections.

Jeff

[Lwanmtr]

Neat video...makes it look easy...hehe

[DMCMW Dave]

- rear fascia held on by fender washers (look like post production or late production adds), get to inside of pontoon through vacuum canister door and through air intake opening.

Jeff

That's a really common "enhancement" but I've never been able to figure out if it was an assembly line "fix" or something they did a the QAC. It is VERY common.

[DrJeff]

After many months of preparing, measuring, rechecking, I got to see today how the Tesla motor will sit in the DeLorean engine cradle. This was just a test fit up... still lots of cleaning and work to do on the frame in preparation. Next up... building motor mounts and measuring for driveshafts.

The Tesla Drive Unit is the 260 HP and 250 lbft (at 0 rpm) motor from the rear of a Tesla Model S 70D. I had guestimated that the 70D rear motor would be able to sit at the bottom of the engine cradle (22in across) and yet position so that the driveshafts would be roughly aligned to run to the DeLorean stock wheel hubs without interference. The fit up gets pretty close, just need to leave room for the High Voltage feed to the drive unit and also tip the transmission (nose down) to keep the driveshafts clear of the trailing arms.

Rolled the frame rearwards to get access to the engine.
47972

Transmission and Front of Engine shown from above.
47973

Engine bay with engine and transmission removed.
47974

Tesla Motor (drive unit = motor, transmission, and inverter) shown in engine bay from the rear.
47975

Tesla drive unit shown from the side (highlighting the space at the rear of the engine bay)
47976

Tesla drive unit in the engine bay shown from above
47977

Close up of the Tesla Drive Unit in the engine bay from the rear.
47978

The CV connection to the Tesla transmission will sit about 4 inches further forward than the stock Delorean shafts. The Tesla transmission sits to one side, so I'm going to use the lay (intermediate) shaft from the Tesla front motor. Rough measurements tonight put the drive shafts at about 20 and 19 inches long.

The Tesla drive unit is about 200lbs and replaces the DeLorean engine and transmission. Of course the TesLorean will have to accommodate a heavy 400v battery, however it can be distributed in multiple places around the car.

[Lwanmtr]

Could you use the stock transmission with that motor?

[DMCMW Dave]

Could you use the stock transmission with that motor?

For about 30 seconds, assuming you could figure out a way to hook it up.

[Chris4099]

Could you use the stock transmission with that motor?

The way Tesla designs these, the motor is on one side with the power inverter on the other side and the differential in-between. To mount a motor directly to the transmission, you need to redesign the power inverter to mount separately so you can eliminate the differential (there's cooling lines and wiring between the two, so no simple task). You really don't want a standard transmission with an Tesla motor anyway. The power band and RPM range is so wide that it allows the motor to be connected to a single speed transmission. Just adding more gears to change ratios only reduces efficiency and reliability. Plus, it's way cooler to be in a car that just has this constant acceleration from 0-100+ MPH without any delays from changing gears. :)

[DrJeff]

I did some more positioning of the drive unit today. The drive unit can be tipped nose down by up to 45 degrees (and still have the transmission oil pump functional). This brings the transmission CVs to within 1 inch of the stock position.

It leaves some interesting engine mount challenges, but all manageable. Next step is to mock up some engine mounts. Also confirmed that the drive unit will sit below the support bar that spans across the rear shock towers. This means that the drive unit can be pulled up and back, or forward and down (akin to transmission removal) if it needs to come out for maintenance.

[DrJeff]

Doing work today on getting ready to rebuild the brake lines...

Here's a photo (looking from the front of the car) of the brakes lines (sans car) without the flexible lines included. The foremost section is for the front wheels. The rear section runs from the master cylinder, along the outside and then underside of the central tunnel, and then splits off to each wheel. The rear outer lines run from the flexible lines down to the rear calipers along the trailing arms.
48010

These are my measurements, but if someone knows better I'd be delighted to be corrected. The brake lines are 3/6 (tubing OD). Male fittings appear to be 10mm x 1.0, 11mm long (but I could be wrong - they could be 3/8-24). The female fittings are also 10mmx1.0 (assuming I got the males correct). The only fittings that are a different size (on the brake lines) are the connections into the rear calipers. These appear to be 3/8x24thread and 5/8in long. I measured the rough lengths (in inches, ~approx).
48009

The brake line flares appear to be DIN/ISO Bubble Flare at the male fittings, and Double/SAE 45 degree flare at the female fittings.
480064800748008

As regards the TesLorean, I'll be using the iBooster from the Tesla (autopilot capable) which replaces the vacuum booster with electric braking support. The outlets from the brake master cylinder are 1/4in lines. I'll be using 1/4 to 3/16 adapters to connect the iBooster to the DeLorean lines. The iBooster sits closer to the firewall than the stock DeLorean master (since there is no vacuum booster). I'm leaning towards nicopp (nickel copper alloy lines) rather than stainless just to make the task of working it easier and reduce the likelihood of stresses from bending.

[DrJeff]

Found this old thread with brake fittings information from TommyRich in post #6. Excellent table of data included. Thanks to TommyRich for posting.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12291-Brake-Line-Length-and-Thread-Size

Here's the direct link to the table of data (as an image).
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=35880&d=1438968021

[tommyrich]

Thanks to TommyRich for posting.

You are most welcome :hihi2:

[DrJeff]

Did some test fitting for the iBooster (vacuum-less electronic brake assist) and EPS (electric power steering). The EPS has been long planned, but the motor location sits where the existing steering column to steering box linkage is. This area is also occupied by the brake lines coming out of the stock master cylinder.

The iBooster is going to be mounted in place of the stock vacuum booster and brake master cylinder. The stock brake 'spacer' (which holds the brake booster away from the firewall) will need to be modified slightly (shortened), to provide enough space for the EPS motor unit. The iBooster brake lines emerge from inside-side of the master cylinder (the stock DeLorean cylinder lines emerge from the outside-side - which conflicts with the motor placement). Between shifting the iBooster towards the firewall and relocating the brakelines inwards, there is enough space for the EPS motor unit. The motor unit will be secured by a bracket to the LHS shock tower inward side (where the front brake line T is currently located). The brake line T will relocate to the other side of the iBooster brake master cylinder. I'll likely be adding a proportioning valve for adjustments to the front/rear brake force - to more closely emulate the stock master cylinder.

Shows the rough positioning of the iBooster (vacuum booster and master cylinder replacement). A modified version of the stock bracket 'spacer' will be used. The 'fork' on the front of the iBooster (which connects to the brake pedal linkage) is removable (threaded) and will be replaced by a longer plunger to connect to the stock DeLorean brake pedal.
48044

Shows the rough positioning of the EPS unit. The EPS unit isn't sitting in exactly the correct position (because I only have two hands).
4804248043

The EPS linkage is as follows...
- Steering Column (existing)
- 9/16-36 to 3/4DD vibration reducer u-joint
- 3/4DD rod (approx 4 inches)
- 3/4DD to EPS motor input u-joint
- EPS motor
- EPS bracket to frame
- EPS motor output to 9/16-36 at steering box u-joint

I would estimate (note: UNTESTED) that fitting the EPS motor unit in a car with a standard brake booster and master cylinder would be possible, however the lines into the master cylinder would need to be moved and more than likely the T-split in the lines to the front brakes.

[Lwanmtr]

Looks good. wont that EPS thing poke into where the washer bottle is located?

[DrJeff]

Looks good. wont that EPS thing poke into where the washer bottle is located?

Didn't think of that one, so I just rechecked it. From the top of the LHS shock tower (forward) to a 'fender brace' that sits behind the washer bottle is ~14in. The EPS motor (when positioned correctly) extends to 6 to 7 inches (forward) of the top of the shock tower. So (phew) there's a good few inches of clearance.

[Lwanmtr]

Ahh cool. I'll admit my judgement of space under there isn't perfect.specially looking at it without the rest of the car there...hehe.

[Josh]

Try to keep your cv angle as minimal as possible. I have my transmission moved 3" forward and would not move it any more. If you move it more than 1" forward I would suggest running the dune buggy boots, they allow for much more angle. It looks like your axles will be short too, so this will be more of a concern.

This project is very cool, excited to see it moving along.

Also as a check the brake lines are indeed 3/16 tubing with 10mm ends. It is a very common size.

[David T]

Try to keep your cv angle as minimal as possible. I have my transmission moved 3" forward and would not move it any more. If you move it more than 1" forward I would suggest running the dune buggy boots, they allow for much more angle. It looks like your axles will be short too, so this will be more of a concern.

This project is very cool, excited to see it moving along.

Also as a check the brake lines are indeed 3/16 tubing with 10mm ends. It is a very common size.

On the subject of CV joint angle, you want it as close to straight as possible at ride height which should be the middle of the rear suspension travel. The more you increase the angle the less power you can transmit and the shorter the life of the joints. The shafts can move in and out a little bit to allow for up and down movement. You must make sure your shafts are not too short or too long so you can maintain that movement. Take the springs and shocks out and check the suspension and shafts for full freedom of movement in all positions of the suspension. In most electric conversions since the transmission is no longer necessary, they do away with it altogether and connect the motor right to the differential or in this case the final drive. You may find you must limit the amount of power at low speeds so you don't spin one wheel. The diff in a Delorean is not a "limited slip" type diff.

[Josh]

On the subject of CV joint angle, you want it as close to straight as possible at ride height which should be the middle of the rear suspension travel. The more you increase the angle the less power you can transmit and the shorter the life of the joints. The shafts can move in and out a little bit to allow for up and down movement. You must make sure your shafts are not too short or too long so you can maintain that movement. Take the springs and shocks out and check the suspension and shafts for full freedom of movement in all positions of the suspension. In most electric conversions since the transmission is no longer necessary, they do away with it altogether and connect the motor right to the differential or in this case the final drive. You may find you must limit the amount of power at low speeds so you don't spin one wheel. The diff in a Delorean is not a "limited slip" type diff.

Oh no david! When are my CV joints going to inevitably fail?

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k38/jschatte/Facebook/Project%2082%20Delorean/11863290_1122271064453072_1020124336085084363_n.jp g (http://s84.photobucket.com/user/jschatte/media/Facebook/Project%2082%20Delorean/11863290_1122271064453072_1020124336085084363_n.jp g.html)

Some swaps to not allow you to have perfectly straight CV axles, so you need to deal with it. There are options out there, for example I used dune buggy axles that are good to 26 deg, mine are running at 10 deg and are fine.

[DrJeff]

... In most electric conversions since the transmission is no longer necessary, they do away with it altogether and connect the motor right to the differential or in this case the final drive. You may find you must limit the amount of power at low speeds so you don't spin one wheel. The diff in a Delorean is not a "limited slip" type diff.

For this project the DeLorean transmission/differential (everything) is being removed. The Tesla Drive Unit includes (integrated with the motor) the single reduction gear and differential.

The Tesla differential is not limited either. The Tesla monitors the wheel speeds and if one wheel begins to spin it fires the electronic parking brake on that wheel - essentially acting in a manner similar to anti-lock brakes, but for traction control.

I'll be fitting tone rings to both rear wheels, however I may or may not implement some form of traction control. There are several potential solutions, none are straightforward, e.g. reducing power to the motor, fitting electric brakes (the Tesla ones are unlikely to fit), or a quaife differential (already developed for the large Tesla motors). My current plan is to wait and see how bad the problem is (or how fun it is) and then decide how involved the solution needs to be.

[David T]

Oh no david! When are my CV joints going to inevitably fail?


Some swaps to not allow you to have perfectly straight CV axles, so you need to deal with it. There are options out there, for example I used dune buggy axles that are good to 26 deg, mine are running at 10 deg and are fine.

Everything fails, it is just a matter of time. The more stress you put on a part the sooner you can expect it to fail. Good design dictates limiting the angle if you want longevity out of the C/V joints. Since all engineering is a compromise you can give up longevity for simplicity or economics or anything else. As an example, if lasts 10,000 miles instead of 100,000 miles that may be an acceptable trade-off to you. In racing it just has to last 1/4 mile in some cases!

[opethmike]

Lol, ever the optimist there.

[DCUK Martin]

CV joints should always have at least 2 degrees of angle in order for the grease to circulate. Running a joint perfectly straight is a surefire way to have it fail very early

[David T]

CV joints should always have at least 2 degrees of angle in order for the grease to circulate. Running a joint perfectly straight is a surefire way to have it fail very early

You are correct, it should never be perfectly straight but it never will be. As you drive and the wheels go up and down that should be enough so the joint moves and the grease circulates and the bearings move. As important as the angle is, the length is also very important as a previous poster mentioned. Too short or too long and you will put a lot of stress on the joints and the suspension and eventually something is going to give. At ride height the joint should be "neutral" and at the ends of travel it should be about equal as to length and angle. This is just one of the things anyone doing a swap must consider and work out. Mess up and parts fail prematurely.

[DCUK Martin]

You are correct, it should never be perfectly straight but it never will be.

To not account for periods when it *might be* would be lazy engineering. This is why driveshafts are always offset either fore or aft.

[DrJeff]

More investigative work on the Brake Lines today. Prepared some sample brake line flares using the Eastwood Brake Line Flaring Tool.

48297482984829948300

So Male fittings are bubble. From the pictures it looks like the DIN setting (for the flares inner edge) is the best fit. Female fittings are Double Inverted (a bubble with the 'bubble' folded back into the line). From the female fitting pictures it looks like the 45 setting (for the flare inner edge) is the correct fit.

Only reservation I have is that the flares I'm comparing to have been cinched down inside a fitting (for 35 years) and may have changed shape slightly.

Jeff

--------------------------------------------------

Found this old thread with brake fittings information from TommyRich in post #6. Excellent table of data included. Thanks to TommyRich for posting.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?12291-Brake-Line-Length-and-Thread-Size

Here's the direct link to the table of data (as an image).
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=35880&d=1438968021

[DrJeff]

Now that I have a design for the battery pack location in the DeLorean, I was able to find the final position for the motor. Previously the motor sat further forward (in the space once occupied by the transmission) and tipped nose down about 40 degrees. Now the motor will sit over the engine cradle with the transmission tipped nose down about 25 degrees. This lessens the angle on the half-shafts.

51479 51480 51481 51482

The motor mount at the side of the Tesla motor was removed and put aside to avoid obstruction. It will still be used, but a bracket will attached to the side of the motor to allow the rubber mount to move to a less awkward position.

The half shafts are 22in and 25in, so closer in length than previously, also removing the potential need for a lay shaft.

This creates some space in front of the motor which could accommodate a pump or other non-high voltage units.

The Chevy Spark EV battery pack will be split into 3 parts, front 2 modules, rear 2 modules, and controller neck. I'll be using the existing shell (carbon fiber) and metal supports, with modifications to maintain the waterproofing after splitting. The two front modules will sit behind the rear axle where belts, oil pan and exhaust used to be. The rear two modules will sit directly above the engine cradle and motor, in the location previously occupied by the intake manifold. The weight won't be quite as low or as central as I'd like, but it won't be all that far from the original DeLorean weight distribution.

I'm putting misc electronics and high voltage (ac compressor, dcdc, heater, chiller, etc.) in the prior fuel tank area. The layout will be serviceable from below by removing the fuel tank covering plate. I'll be adding a splash cover for the fuel tank area to allow any water to drain away.

[Lwanmtr]

Not gonna put batteries in where the fuel tank was? Might help weight distribution.

[DrJeff]

Not gonna put batteries in where the fuel tank was? Might help weight distribution.

They (battery modules from the Chevy Spark EV) simply don't fit. The fuel tank area isn't tall enough, long enough, or wide enough (for sufficient length). I've checked the dimensions of Tesla battery modules (same no fit story). About the only modules that did fit were from the Nissan Leaf and even then they are best built into blocks and the blocks are two large for the fuel tank area.

I should have about 100 lbs of parts in the fuel tank area, which is pretty close to the weight of 15 gallons of gasoline (6.3 lbs/gallon).

Jeff

[Lwanmtr]

Thats too bad. I guess you could put 100lb sandbag up there to offset the weight...hehe

[DrJeff]

Mounts for the Tesla drive unit (motor, inverter, transmission) completed (although not painted yet). The welding is ugly but functional.

I used the existing engine and transmission mounting points for the new front and rear brackets. The Tesla motor has rubber mounting bushings built-in front and rear. I attached the Tesla side mount to the DeLorean frame and made a bracket to adapt the drive unit mount points to the new side mount location.

The drive unit sits more to the left than right for two reasons, 1) the high voltage (400v) DC power cables enter at the bottom right (just forward of the existing RHS motor mount), and 2) to shift the differential as close to center as possible. In the Tesla the rear motor is positioned to the left hand side to leave the differential equidistant from the wheels (in the front-wheel drive Tesla's they use a lay shaft). With the DeLorean engine cradle, the half-axles will be 1-2 inches longer on the LHS than the RHS.

The Tesla motor can produce 250 ftlb at 0 RPM, so the drive unit will be pulling up on the front mount and pushing down on the rear mount. The side mount is principally for stability.

The drive unit is tipped down about 20 degrees (from the level mount found in the Tesla). This is well within the 45 degree limit for the oil pickup. The position was selected to provide clearance for the half-shafts.

5217152172

Next up axle measurements. Custom axles are needed to accommodate Tesla differential inner CV and DeLorean rear hub outer CV connections.

Jeff
TesLorean.com

[vwdmc16]

That looks the tits! Keep going !

[Jupiterbandit]

That is very impressive! Very much enjoying your journey.

[DrJeff]

I post more frequent updates on the project (Tesla in a DeLorean) to Twitter, DIYElectricCar, and Facebook, since those particular are threads are specifically about the conversion of cars to electric. However, I thought you guys might get a kick out of this update...

53788

It shows the positioning of the major EV components in the car. Some of the basics...

- Trunk area (front) will be filled with two (or four) battery modules (laid bottom to bottom - with common cooling plate between). It will also have the charger in the spare wheel well, and the battery pack controllers, fuses, and pre-charge circuit.

- I'm still debating where to put the charge port. The gas filler location is not ideal - you'd need to leave the hood open for hours while the car is recharging (would be different with a gas flap hood). I may put it behind the front grill, much the same as the DMCH electric delorean. It looks a little awkward, but it would remain dry.

- The old gas tank area will have a collection of modules for high voltage connects/distribution, coolant pumps, coolant heater and chiller, ac compressor. It will be serviceable from the bottom by removing the fuel tank closing plate. Coolant heater runs off battery power (400v) and raises the temperature of the battery pack on very cold days. The coolant chiller is attached to the AC system. The AC compressor runs off battery power (400v) - very efficient and runs at different speeds depending on demand.

- The DCDC converter will take traction battery power (400v) and output 14v, supported by the 12v lead acid battery.

- There are 3 electric coolant pumps and 3 diverter valves. The system pumps and routes coolant between the traction battery (400v) and the Tesla drive unit. Heater, Chiller, Radiator, etc. are all employed to keep the battery and drive unit at optimal temperature.

- High voltage lines, coolant lines (no refrigerant line), CAN and low voltage will be routed through and on the underside of the central tunnel.

- The Tesla DriveUnit includes a "transmission" (single 9:1 reduction gear and differential), so the PRV engine and the transmission are removed. There is no shifting linkage through the tunnel. The car will operate like an automatic - although the acceleration will be smooth and continuous from 0 to top speed.

- For weight distribution, there will be about 250lbs up front (battery and charger), and 450lbs at the rear (battery and drive unit), with about 100lbs in the gas tank area.

- The dash will remain as stock however the meaning and function of most dials and lights will change. Only the speedometer, 12v battery, and coolant temp will read as per stock. The rest (including the Tach) will have meaning for the EV systems status.

- The upper central vents have already been moved to the knee pads and the upper console area has the trip computer. It will display the battery status, and information from various systems (drive unit, battery, temps, DCDC, accelerometer).

- The gear shift area will have buttons to shift PNDR, creep mode, and cruise control. There will also be an emergency power disconnect.

- Stock buttons in the center console will be moved to the prior door AC panel area (already moved). Only the rear window defrost switch will be kept in the console area.

- Other than the trip computer in the upper center console, lack of shifter, cabin customization, LED headlights, the car will appear to be a stock DeLorean. I'm going to mount fake exhausts to keep the rear lines and look consistent with stock.

Jeff

[Lwanmtr]

Looks like its coming along nicely. I dont follow twitter and facebook is evil...hehe.
Hope you'll post more here too.

you could always put like a little fog machine connected to the exhaust tips so they could smoke a bit for added realism...hehe.

[BladeBronson]

Can you modify either the air intake or power antenna vents for a charging port?

[Josh]

Hey I recognize that model...
Glad it can be of use to you!

[Nicholas R]

Hey I recognize that model...
Glad it can be of use to you!

I thought that looked familiar! Haha :wink:

[DrJeff]

Hey I recognize that model...
Glad it can be of use to you!

It was very useful. Found it by doing Google 'delorean frame' searches. I snagged images from the front, rear, and side too.

Thanks
Jeff

[DrJeff]

Key milestone today - test installed the axles connecting the Tesla drive unit to the DeLorean rear hubs.

Picture from above the DeLorean rear transmission area with the Tesla drive unit fitted, the adapters (make from Tesla inner CV joints), and the axles.
55949

Looking down the passenger trailing arm at the rear wheel hub. Can see the axle, CV joint, and tone ring.
55950

thanks to the DriveShaft Shop (http://www.driveshaftshop.com/) for building the adapters and custom axles.

[Lwanmtr]

very cool. so it'll be done in a couple days then? :)

[81dmc]

Will the Teslorean be DC fast charge capable? Perhaps install the module used for the handshake at a tesla supercharger?

It would be hilarious seeing a Delorean at supercharger...:hihi:


This comes to mind...
https://electrek.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/screen-shot-2017-10-25-at-12-04-17-pm-e1508947538720.jpg?quality=82&w=500#038;strip=all&w=400

[DrJeff]

I got the PowerKey 2300 SI running. Just a little hiccup with the default CAN baud rate (mine was 250KBPS, not 125KPBS as in the documentation). The panel will sit slightly forward of where the gearshift was. I'm still debating whether I should put a cup holder where the gear shift has been removed. A DeLorean with a sensible cup holder location may just be a step too far for the purists :)

I bought mine directly from Blink Marine.

Unit is very solid and has great key action. You can select the key symbol inserts from 200+ available (very easy to change). The pic shows some of the button light colors possible, essentially combinations of RGB, shown here at 100% brightness.

My car will have D-drive, R-reverse, (P) - park, Charge, Up, and Down. I haven't landed exactly on the purpose of Up/Down yet but it could be a regen level adjuster OR air suspension... TBD :)

58373

I landed on using a button panel like this after using a similar arrangement in the FIAT 500e. In the TesLorean, the button will only indicate selected once the trip computer has confirmation back from the HSR motor control module that the motor is in the selected mode.

There is backlighting and the button LEDs can be made to blink.

I'll need to work on the color scheme and what information I need the buttons to convey as the car is being operated/charged. It will be something more subtle that the Christmas tree shown in the photo.

No N neutral required - (P) is sufficient. The TesLorean will rely on the manual hand brake to stop the car rolling. The trip computer will monitor the manual handbrake and flash warning lights until it is engaged.

[Lwanmtr]

Cool.

Make the up and down arrows play sheep noise.

Yeah, it might be taking it too far to put in a cup holder..borderline blasphemy...so stop such deviant thoughts..

[81dmc]

Now THIS is cool! Great work!

One thing. Install. That. Cupholder. I installed two in my car where the window switches used to be, and they are the best thing since sliced bread.:)

Also, if you end up using the cluster design, please post a picture of the finished product!

:thumbup:

Edit: Think this is the first time I've seen someone else use sealed deutsch connectors...

[DrJeff]

Trip Computer design is finished and ready to go in the car. The Trip Computer is the master controller in the TesLorean as it controls the primary source of input from the driver (apart from the steering and accelerator) and issues commands to the thermal controller, charger, battery control, instrument cluster, drive unit...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeS9nn2E1fg&feature=youtu.be

Recent work on the TesLorean has all been on controller programming (too darn hot to be in the garage).

Jeff

[Lwanmtr]

Very cool.

[Timeless]

Updates?

[DrJeff]

Updates?

Recent activity...
- Coding the Trip computer : it acts as the master controller for all the car's systems
- Desktop integration testing : Trip computer, KeyPad Pro, 4D Systems display, HSR drive unit controller, BCM battery control module, and Charger controller
- Charger : now charging at 10kW full power
- Motor position : Rebuilt the motor mounts to reduce the angle on the axles and allow easy routing of the high voltage cabling into the drive unit

[CyberBill]

How long do you think you have before your first drive under electric power?

[DrJeff]

How long do you think you have before your first drive under electric power?

I would say 3-4 months. I'm waiting on part I've engineered in coming from Northern Italy (delayed for obvious reasons). Apart from that I need to resize the axles since I moved the motor location. Goal is to have the car road ready for the Full Charged show in April 2021 in Austin Texas.

Jeff

[DrJeff]

I assembled the Digital Instrument Cluster for the TesLorean and thought it might be interesting to post.

637576375863759

Some technical details...
- 2 of 4D Systems 9in displays
- Reads CANbus traffic from other car controllers (such as Tesla Drive Unit, Trip computer) and updates the digital gauges
- Stock 12v signals for warning lights, indicators, headlights all route through opto-isolator to protect microcontroller
- Ruggiduino (Arduino) microcontroller
- fused 1 amp 12v

Project details...
- Kept the original gauge housing (light blue plastic) and re-fashioned to hold the electronics
- Split the original gauge housing in half, to create the space for the two 9in displays

Operational details...
- Flux Capacitor icon only shows when at 88mph
- 55 and 88 mph highlighted on the speed gauge (hard to see in the photo)
- Gauges for Speed, Torque, Coolant Temp, 12v, High voltage battery capacity, and Power consumption/regen
- Warning gauges for power steering, battery management system, Tesla drive unit, battery capacity, and handbrake
- Cruise control icon shown above the speedo
- Screen brightness adjusted from the trip computer (in the center console)

Jeff

[Lwanmtr]

A dash like that would be cool to have even in a non-electric (hint, hint). :)

[81dmc]

Nice design... lol


Really want to see this car drive, good work!

[CyberBill]

- Flux Capacitor icon only shows when at 88mph

ahaha! LOVE THIS!!

[cjquijano]

I would say 3-4 months. I'm waiting on part I've engineered in coming from Northern Italy (delayed for obvious reasons). Apart from that I need to resize the axles since I moved the motor location. Goal is to have the car road ready for the Full Charged show in April 2021 in Austin Texas.

Jeff

Hello, I am really interested in this project and I would love to know how it is progressing. Any chance you will put together documentation that a less talented person could follow?

Thanks!
Christopher

[mike123]

Hello, I am really interested in this project and I would love to know how it is progressing. Any chance you will put together documentation that a less talented person could follow?

Thanks!
Christopher

I'd love to hear any updates as well; last I've seen is what looks like a completed monitoring interface. Maybe that was the last step and DrJeff is enjoying the open road in his TesLorean!

Christopher, there's another electric project which has a remarkable amount of content produced, in this thread:
https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?18218-VIN-5510-Bill-s-DeLorean-Restoration

It started as a frame restoration, then turned into an electric conversion, and I can only assume a hover mod will be next. Bill's YouTube channel has hours and hours of videos showing what he's done, what problems he's faced, etc. It's intimidating to start watching because there is so much, but once you're caught up, the level of detail in each video is pretty amazing.

[rgehrig]

Jeff
Hope your car is working.
What model 4D Systems displays did you use?
Looking into updated display for my DeLorean.
Thanks
Robert