Volvo Ignition Distributor Versus DeLorean Ignition Distributor

[content22207]

While poking around online I came across an OCR scan of the Volvo ignition manual. Unfortunately the graphs didn't survive the translation (I'll buy a printed copy), but distributor specs did:
4710

Comparing either B28 distributor to the DeLorean specs on Page A:01:02 of the Workshop Manual reveals just how flat a DeLorean advance curve is.

If an owner finds a junkyard Volvo distributor in good condition, I would definitely swap it in.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dn010]

I actually have a distributor from a B27F installed in my D. I purchased an engine removed from a Volvo probably in '05, and the distributor was just in better shape than the original one I had but it looked identical to me. I really haven't had any trouble with my engine until lately, would the distributor do better or worse for a stock engine? The volvo engine was even fire instead of our odd fire - so I was questioning this move... Thanks

[content22207]

I actually have a distributor from a B27F installed in my D. I purchased an engine removed from a Volvo probably in '05, and the distributor was just in better shape than the original one I had but it looked identical to me. I really haven't had any trouble with my engine until lately, would the distributor do better or worse for a stock engine? The volvo engine was even fire instead of our odd fire - so I was questioning this move... Thanks

You can't use a B280 distributor on a B28. They mount in two completely different places (there's no place to put a B280 distributor on a B28, and no gear to drive it). I sincerely doubt your donor engine was even fire.

Since you are still K-Jet, if you are having engine running problems I would start a thread in the General forum.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dn010]

I meant to put B28F in my post, not B27F.... I'll have to go take a look at the engine plate to make sure I'm getting it correct, as well as take a look at the crank again. I can tell you that the block has main bearing caps that bolt through the side of the block as well as inside, and the heads that came off I believe didn't have any injector ports like the D. There was no front mounted distributor or covers that would accept one on this engine. I'll check out what exactly I took this distributor off of and let you know, I may be wrong. Thanks.

[dn010]

Well the engine is indeed a B280F - number plate in VOD. The crank has split journals - even fire. At this point, not sure what the distributor came out of. Problem is I got 2 engines worth of "top end" and one bottom end, many parts just arriving in boxes - I guess there is no way of telling what it is from, but it isn't from a D. I'd offer to take it out and get some numbers off it so I could actually know what I've got (since I didn't know there were differences)...but I think that task is best saved for a Friday night with a 12 pack.

[content22207]

Your distributor has to be odd fire -- the engine wouldn't run otherwise (assuming you've got an odd fire engine in the car).

Just pop the distributor out and look at the numbers stamped on the side. Only takes a minute or two.

Oh wait, you're K-Jet -- nevermind.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[TTait]

Your distributor has to be odd fire -- the engine wouldn't run otherwise (assuming you've got an odd fire engine in the car).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Bob, explain something to me here...

Why does it matter if the donor is odd or even fire, as long as you can put the proper cap on it. I thought all the distributor itself did was spin the rotor and advance as required...

Why couldn't one use an even fire distributor on an odd fire engine IF the proper cap fits, or is it more a matter of how it interfaces with the head and cam?

Tom

[content22207]

Hell effect sensor. The distributor tells the ignition ECU when to ground the coil and when to build high tension. An even fire distributor would do that too late for the even numbered cylinders.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dn010]

Even fire engines fire evenly; the [similar] distributor cap terminals are spaced evenly around the cap. Look at our odd fire distributor caps - the inputs for the plug wires are grouped in 2's and the groups are spaced apart from eachother. As Bill said - all the internals would have to match what is going on with the cap.

The even fire distributor doesn't even mount where the odd fire one does-it is a totally different design all together. They kindly [and finally] put the even fire distributor on the end/front of the right side cylinder head - if it was installed on a D it would be closest to the rear fascia.

I've read that even fire PRVs produce LESS HP than our odd fire [147 compared to 170]. If this is correct, I gotta laugh - those folks trying to put EFI in their D for better performance by dropping a B280 in their car not realizing they are going with less HP ...

[dmc6960]

I'm having trouble understanding what I see there. However the DeLorean's workshop manual puts it clear as day...

Base Timing - 13º ±2º

Centrifugal Advance...
1000rpm = 0º
2000rpm = 10º
3000rpm = 14º
4000rpm = 20º

Vacuum Advance...
5 in HG = 3º
10in HG = 12º
15in HG = 20º

These numbers assume the highest advance under throttle would be about 33º-36º (13º+20º+[maybe up to 3º])=36º.

Cruising advance (lower rpm, lower load), 13º+12º+12º=37º

Convert the Volvo numbers into an easy to read list like this and we'll talk...

[delornut]

While poking around online I came across an OCR scan of the Volvo ignition manual. Unfortunately the graphs didn't survive the translation (I'll buy a printed copy), but distributor specs did:
4710

Comparing either B28 distributor to the DeLorean specs on Page A:01:02 of the Workshop Manual reveals just how flat a DeLorean advance curve is.

If an owner finds a junkyard Volvo distributor in good condition, I would definitely swap it in.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I installed a B27 distributor in my DeLorean and drove it from Minnesota to Houston and back a few years ago. The engine felt like it had more torque and pulled better in higher gears but didn't rev as freely as the stock distributor. I swapped one of the B27 weights into the DeLorean distributor and played with the B27 and B28 springs along with making some gradual changes to the weights. I couldn't find a shop with a Sun machine to actualy plot out a re-curve so it was trial and error but my car revs easily to 6000 rpms and is noticably quicker up to about 5000 rpms. I run the advance at 18 degrees. The only non-oxygenated fuel around here is 97 octaine so the 18 degree advance works fine. From my seat of the pants experiance I would say just swapping a B27 distributor might prove dissappointing. The advance comes on quicker, the engine feels like it has a bit more torque but as the rpm's rise it begins to flatten out more than the stock DeLorean distributor.

Bruce Benson

[Ron]

Even fire engines fire evenly; the [similar] distributor cap terminals are spaced evenly around the cap. Look at our odd fire distributor caps - the inputs for the plug wires are grouped in 2's and the groups are spaced apart from eachother. As Bill said - all the internals would have to match what is going on with the cap.

The even fire distributor doesn't even mount where the odd fire one does-it is a totally different design all together. They kindly [and finally] put the even fire distributor on the end/front of the right side cylinder head - if it was installed on a D it would be closest to the rear fascia.

I've read that even fire PRVs produce LESS HP than our odd fire [147 compared to 170]. If this is correct, I gotta laugh - those folks trying to put EFI in their D for better performance by dropping a B280 in their car not realizing they are going with less HP ...
Good Reply!

A visual aid:
4732

[Farrar]

I've read that even fire PRVs produce LESS HP than our odd fire [147 compared to 170].

Where did your extra 40 HP come from? Did you remove your catalytic converter?

Farrar

[dn010]

Even fire engines = 147HP
Odd fire engines = 170HP
It is only 23HP difference...

DeLoreans are using odd fire = 170, Dodge Monaco, Eagle Premier are using even fire with 147HP. So those engines are less, and those who are putting those even fire EFI engines in their D's are going with less.

The reduced HP from what I read, I believe is from a different cylinder head design on the even fire engines.

[Farrar]

From what I've read, I believe it has something to do with the design of the cylinder heads they used.

So what type of cylinder heads are in your D which give you 40 more HP over stock? Or did you remove your catalytic converter?

Edit: FWIW, numbers on Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco, stock 3.0: 150 hp / 171 lb-ft.

Farrar

[dn010]

I'm using the original odd fire engine with UK exhaust.

I know, the DeLorean is rated only at 130BHP. I was going by odd fire / even fire PRV specs, not DMC in general. If you put even fire with all the emission reduction parts in a D, I'm sure you'll wind up with less then 147..

[Farrar]

Ah, so.

Thankee.

Farrar

[content22207]

I think there is some confusion going on here between Eurospec and North American PRV's.

B28E - 155 HP (9.5:1 compression)
B28F - 136 HP (8.5:1 compression)

B280E - 170 HP (10:1 compression)
B280F - 147 Hp (9.5:1 compression)

The mechanical advance of Volvo distributors kicks in at much lower RPM's than a DeLorean distributor. Farrar has driven both on his engine, perhaps he can add his own "seat of the pants" evaluation.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[dn010]

Well - I stand corrected. It was my understanding that the engines were rated for 170 but emission'd down to 130. A long time ago I did a search for 170hp Delorean and that's what I got. So, in actuality, the even fire has 17hp more?

Bill - do you happen to have B27 specs?

[nullset]

Well - I stand corrected. It was my understanding that the engines were rated for 170 but emission'd down to 130. A long time ago I did a search for 170hp Delorean and that's what I got. So, in actuality, the even fire has 17hp more?

Bill - do you happen to have B27 specs?

It's a common misunderstanding.

One of my coworkers is convinced that if I gutted my cat, I'd suddenly gain 40 horsepower.

Um, no. It doesn't work like that. There's lots of stuff that was different between the 170hp engine and the 130hp engine!

[Farrar]

The mechanical advance of Volvo distributors kicks in at much lower RPM's than a DeLorean distributor. Farrar has driven both on his engine, perhaps he can add his own "seat of the pants" evaluation.

No, I can't; it's been so long since I drove the car with a DMC ignition distributor that I can't remember how it behaved. Sorry.

Farrar

[content22207]

It's rotor button hasn't burst into flames -- you're on the winning side irregardless.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Spittybug]

I would love to know if anyone has done any serious work concerning an advance curve that would be optimal for our engines. I'm not tied to the limitations of the existing dizzy since I'm now EFI'd. I have a 12x12 table of manifold vacuum vs. RPM and can input any desired advance angle in each cell. Optimizing this is infinite! I have indeed found that getting more advance in earlier certainly helps. I max out at about 37 degrees. I keep a vigilant ear open for too much advance and the predetonation it creates. So far I think I'm OK.

Has anyone done any work in this area or have any dyno testing experience?

[DeLorean]

also note, the 150 HP, EFI 3.0 Eagle premier was always a cat converter car, there was no "euro version, but if there was, it would probably have been "190 HP" - the 3.0 premier motor with proper EFI WILL be in improvement over the standard 2.8.

[Farrar]

the 3.0 premier motor with proper EFI WILL be in improvement over the standard 2.8.

Two thumbs up!

Farrar

[vwdmc16]

I just purchased a b27 volvo dizzy and will install it tonight, ill do a seat of the pants review and maybe one day i can get back on my old shop's dyno and compare.

[content22207]

Haven't you seen -- seat of the pants doesn't count on DMCTalk.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[vwdmc16]

true maybe we should show hard evidence on our findings and claims...

[vwdmc16]

well after a few hours the dizzies have been swapped and it was a success. i Finally fixed the intermittent low rpm/ idle misfire/ interference that ive had for years,:ohcrap::rock_on: the car now idles at 800rpm so smoothly! its just pure sex to me, ive been so frustrated with this problem that nobody had seen.

so as for performance, the volvo dizzy feels just the same as the Dmc one, but to be sure i will try to get it on the rollers ASAP and not just keep repeating that it is faster/better because i say so....

[Farrar]

Wolff, are you still running the stock ignition ECU?

Farrar

[vwdmc16]

the grey case ECU? yes, the volvo one and the DMC one have the same part # on them. i should mention i tried installing just the "new" volvo ecu to see if it cured my misfire but it did not. The repair was from the new dist-ecu harness wire or the pulse coil.

[nkemp]

Bump ...

Wolff, did you ever get any dyno info?

[vwdmc16]

ah, no. ive been busy working on my race car on the dyno. but ill try to soon:wrenchin: