Beware NTB - Don't YOU get ripped off!

[Citizen]

Ok, not necessarily DeLorean related, but you may want to beware of NTB for your other cars.

My 2005 Chevy Colorado was up for state inspection & tags. But it had thrown a trouble code that had to be fixed first. Using my scan tool, I found that it was emissions related, but wasn't sure which emission part was bad, and I didn't want to replace part-by-part until I happened on the right part to replace (would have taken all day and possibly many parts replaced that didn't need to be, and those emission parts can be expensive). So I took it to NTB, and they said they could run a diagnosis on it and tell me exactly which part it was -- cost about $103 plus tax.

After the diagnosis, they quoted me a price to replace the part -- total cost (incl. the diagnostics above) -- $408.01 !

Red flags in me went up all over the place, and so I declined the service, paid for the diagnostics and headed out for the nearest O'Reily auto parts store, and showed them the diagnostics sheet. They looked it up, and said the price of the part (Vapor Canister Purge Solenoid), $25.49 plus tax. So I bought the part, and a $5 bottle of fuel injector cleaner to add to the gas tank, and headed home.

Took me a while to install the new solenoid, mainly because of its location, but I got it in, and then cleared the service engine light. I had to drive the truck some 50+ miles so the emissions sensors would re-engage properly, then I took it and got it inspected & got tags.

LONG STORY SHORT --> NTB was going to charge me over $400 to replace a $25 part. So use them at your own peril. I won't be using them again. Now it's true that I used their engine diagnosis this time, so I was legitimately on the hook for the $113, but hey, I figure it saved me lots of time in trial-and-error replacing parts.

So $113 + $25.50 = about $138.50, instead of paying NTB $408.01.

Lesson Learned!

Thomas

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[David T]

There are parts stores that will pull codes for free just so they can sell you the right parts. I think Autozone is one. The better, more expensive scanners can usually direct you to a better diagnosis but they are to expensive for most owners to afford and keep up to date every year. The best way today to fix codes is to get the code and go on the Internet to see what it means and how others have fixed it. You can often find the most common failure and fix it yourself. As for the PRV someone said they don't throw codes THEY THROW FITS!

[NJP548]

What is NTB?

-Nick

[Citizen]

What is NTB?

-Nick

Oh sorry. NTB = National Tire & Battery.

http://www.ntb.com/

Despite the name, they do lots more than just tires and batteries.


Thomas

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[NJP548]

Gotcha. I just never heard of them. I don't think they have a location on Long Island.

Thanks.

-Nick

[Drive Stainless]

I visited my local NTB with my DeLorean spare wheel. Here's how my experience went:

1. They told me they could not get a tire for it anywhere.
2. I ordered a spare tire from Tirerack.com, which they agreed to install.
3. They installed the new tire and the old valve stem.
4. I looked at it, and then asked if they replaced the valve stem. They said "Always." I said, "No, you didn't. That's the old valve stem. Look at how dirty the threads are."
5. They apologized, and then replaced the old valve stem (for real this time) with a new one.
6. They also gouged the inside of the spare wheel in 4 places using their machine.

I wouldn't go back.

[Dangermouse]

Thomas, I would suspect NTB were quoting you an OEM part plus a couple hours labor.

They may also have been changing one or two other "common failure" items to be sure.

No excuse obviously.

They must have known you have a D and are therefore rich. The new ones cost $100 grand, doncha know ;

[David T]

I visited my local NTB with my DeLorean spare wheel. Here's how my experience went:

1. They told me they could not get a tire for it anywhere.
2. I ordered a spare tire from Tirerack.com, which they agreed to install.
3. They installed the new tire and the old valve stem.
4. I looked at it, and then asked if they replaced the valve stem. They said "Always." I said, "No, you didn't. That's the old valve stem. Look at how dirty the threads are."
5. They apologized, and then replaced the old valve stem (for real this time) with a new one.
6. They also gouged the inside of the spare wheel in 4 places using their machine.

I wouldn't go back.


This kind of service can happen anywhere. The people most shops use to put on tires are usually the newest, least experienced, and cheapest people they have. Surprisingly one of the best tire places I have ever gone to is Costco. BUT, you have to be a member and they will only put on THEIR tires. They offer road hazard and have strict procedures to check and double-check the work. All of the techs are well trained on all of the equipment. Good prices and good products. Not much use for Deloreans but for a daily driver it's great service. And if you do have a problem away from home there are Costcos all over. Tire rack is good too but often most shops will refuse to do their tires so you have to go to a participating Tire Rack shop. I bought my spare for my D from T/R. They had a Chinese tire for $40 or a Goodyear for $80. I splurged figuring the Chinese tire wasn't much better than my 30 year old spare. Many shops won't touch the small spare tires, often you have to find a small, independent shop. I reused the old valve stem but did put a new core in.

[DMCVegas]

This thread could easily delve into constant stories about bad mechanics, as well as ones about good mechanics as well. But, let's stick with the facts and break this down.

$408 is the grand total, with a $113 fee for the Diagnostic. That leaves us $295.

Now we can tack on a shop mark-up on the cost of parts, but let's not since that's more speculative. So let us then say that the cost of the part you needed with taxes rounds up to about $30. That would then leave us with $265.

The average hourly charge for a mechanic ranges between $70-$100. So lets say we err on the side of caution and go with $80 an hour. That leaves us with a little over 3 and a quarter hours of labor. Now you say that to install the part it took you a "while". I've no idea what kind of time span that entails, but certainly I can tell you now that if it came close to that 3 or so hours, then the numbers NTB was quoting you actually work out.

Compared to DIY, yes, mechanics absolutely are more expensive. But there are also tons of other charges you're paying for. The biggest one being the luxury of having someone else do the work for you. Same as with restaurants, laundry service, maids, etc. It's always cheaper to do any work yourself.

[Dangermouse]

I have found that it takes me twice as long to do a job the first time than my mechanic quoted me.

Meaning, if he quotes me 2 hours labor to fit a part, it will take me 4 hours by the time I work out how to remove the pieces surrounding the part, find the correct tools, remove the parts and re-install.

If I had to do it a second time, I would probably get much closer to 2 hours.

[mr_maxime]

I wouldn't say this is so much bad service as it is shop prices. With my accord I often went to Pepboys for diagnostics then performed the work myself. They quoted me around $1k for new pads and rotors, but i bought the parts and tools for under $200. It was a massive pain in the ass, but the accord was no longer worth fixing at a shop. I'd say you're being ripped off if they charged for services they didnt perform or werent needed.