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nick sutton
09-05-2011, 05:01 PM
I came across this photograph which was taken the day I left the company in early 1983. It was taken at the rear of the Training building. The photograph was taken after the last shipment was made to the USA and therefore is one of the seven cars auctioned at the factory by Henry Butcher and Sons.

It is an early car and therefore not suitable for shipment with the others that left under the wing of the Receiver.

Thought you might be interested.

Nick

sean
09-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Very cool, thanks for the share!

SamHill
09-05-2011, 05:43 PM
"No Exit" indeed.

Farrar
09-05-2011, 10:49 PM
It is an early car and therefore not suitable for shipment with the others that left under the wing of the Receiver.

She looks absolutely gorgeous to me.

Thanks, Nick! It's so wonderful to have you "here" with us.

Farrar

jawn101
09-05-2011, 10:56 PM
Amazing picture. Real vintage gold. Must have been a sad day but it was the start of a new chapter for these little cars. Thanks for sharing!

Rich W
09-06-2011, 03:26 PM
Nick...great photo and great side story as well.

Do you happen to recall any other details about this DeLorean?

Was this a car that "sat around" for a long time at the factory
or possibly an early car that was returned to the factory after
it had been used for testing or for some other publicity use?
Any other photos (at different angles?) of this "last car"?

This early car happens to have the individual DMC logo letters
on the grille, that were used prior to the single logo part being
completed, which is one reason why I am asking for more info.
It could have been a grille swap at some point, but I doubt it.

Thanks,
Rich W.

nick sutton
09-06-2011, 04:54 PM
Rich

I recall that the only other car was on a ramp under repair. This car appears to have little mileage as is shown from the only other photo (see below) taken from the rear. The car is unregistered.

The last batch of cars to the US went a week or so earlier and these remaining cars were regarded - I suppose- by the Receiver as being not of saleable quality.

Nick4920

jawn101
09-06-2011, 04:57 PM
I wonder what could have earned it the dubious honor of 'not saleable quality' - it looks nice enough from these pics.

These are the sort of little mysteries that make the DeLorean story so fascinating :)

Rich W
09-06-2011, 05:07 PM
Hi Nick,

Thanks for the additional photo and view.

Do you happen to recall if these "final cars" were being "prepped to go"
in the factory, and then "staged to go" in or near the training building?

Were the auction vehicles sent to auction or auctioned "on site" later?

Now I need to watch the video (clips) from the auction again, to try to
see if this car was captured during the video at the auction.

Thanks,
Rich W.

nick sutton
09-06-2011, 05:17 PM
Hi Rich,

This was one of the last seven that were sold at the factory auction. This one was unregistered. The photo was taken at the rear of the training building - the main offices were in the same building. These cars were early cars - of this I have no doubt. otherwise the Receiver would have sold these a s merchantable products.
Nick

content22207
09-06-2011, 05:25 PM
These cars were early cars - of this I have no doubt.

Car pictured has an early style gas flap hood.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Rich W
09-06-2011, 05:34 PM
Bill,

Actually, although the car has a gas flap hood (rather obvious in the photo),
it cannot be determined if it is an early gas flap hood or just a gas flap hood.

There are two different versions of the gas flap hood that can only be determined
by examining the mounting locations of the hood hinges.

The early gas flap hood is mounted with bolts through the hinges and into threaded
plates that have been bonded into the fiberglass support section of the hood.

The later style gas flap hood (and all other production DeLorean hoods) are mounted
with nuts and washers onto studded plates bonded into the fiberglass support section
of the hood. The change appears to have been made to install the hood more easily.
Having removed and installed a few of each type of gas flap hood, I would agree.

Later,
Rich W.

content22207
09-06-2011, 05:42 PM
Irrespective, that car wasn't built in the summer of 1982.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Rich W
09-06-2011, 05:51 PM
Nonsense...(could not resist)

This car could have been "completed" in the Summer of 1982 or Winter 1982.

The last car built...VIN20105...the last gold car, built on December 24, 1982
used the "spare" gold plated gas flap hood. This is a well documented late car.

In addition, many "1983" DeLoreans had the early "1981" style mufflers installed,
since that was what was available, in quantity, at the time, in late 1982.

Later,
Rich W.

content22207
09-06-2011, 05:56 PM
Are you calling Nick a liar?

Bill Robertson
#5939

nick sutton
09-06-2011, 05:58 PM
I that I case must see a priest to get absolution not easy at 10 O'clock at night.

Rich W
09-06-2011, 06:03 PM
Nonsense...you need to lay off the Cheerwine a bit, Bill...

The last car "built" does not imply the last car to "leave" the factory.

Irrespective of the facts, Bill will never admit to saying anything wrong.

Let's try not to clutter this excellent thread from Nick any further.

Thanks,
Rich W.

nick sutton
09-06-2011, 06:29 PM
I have been thinking about the DNA of the early cars and the difference between these and the later ones. Exterior body parts alone don't tell the full story because we cannabalised parts from early cars to later ones (The Middle East cars are a good example of this process)

The way to identify an early car is the A post structure. This was a difficult part to make and one of the last parts to be released for production. So the cars made ( I recall) in January,February and early March had a GRP sub structure to the A post trim (GRP parts made by Lotus). Mid March it changed to a vacuum forming then ( I believe) to a fibre form low cost structure.

If in doubt rip off your A post covers and take a look.

Nick

A Van
09-06-2011, 06:32 PM
I am sure I have seen somewhere a copy of the brochure for that auction which detailed the Vins, also I think 1-2 were registered, narrows it down slightly.

A Van
09-06-2011, 06:34 PM
I think also 1-2 RHD sold at the same auction?

A Van
09-06-2011, 06:40 PM
Found the auction catalogue here

Lists all the Vins

http://www.deloreanmuseum.org/auctioncatalog.html

dvonk
09-06-2011, 11:47 PM
The last car built...VIN20105...the last gold car, built on December 24, 1982 used the "spare" gold plated gas flap hood. This is a well documented late car.

not trying to be a douche, :wink: but i have images of 4300, 4301 and 20105... none of them have gas flap hoods. not surprising though, since they ran out of gas flap hoods c. VIN 3200.

the Amex brochure showed a "gold-colored" D prototype (sliding windows) that had a gas flap hood, though.

content22207
09-07-2011, 01:04 AM
This early car happens to have the individual DMC logo letters
on the grille, that were used prior to the single logo part being
completed, which is one reason why I am asking for more info.
It could have been a grille swap at some point, but I doubt it.


My observation about the early hood differs from your observation about the early grill lettering exactly how?

I am a little perplexed why you felt the need to go to the mat over this, especially since I was *AGREEING* with you and Nick.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Rich W
09-07-2011, 04:01 AM
Dvonk...you are correct, I stand corrected,
literally (while typing on my iPhone). I did
mix up my Amex photo reference with the
lined hoods on all three factory gold cars.

Bill will need to wait until I get to a computer
to post another reference photo that appears
very similar (if not the same) as the last car
rear view photo, unless Nick posts it first (lol).

Later,
Rich W.

dmcjohn
09-07-2011, 04:53 AM
Rich

I recall that the only other car was on a ramp under repair. This car appears to have little mileage as is shown from the only other photo (see below) taken from the rear. The car is unregistered.

The last batch of cars to the US went a week or so earlier and these remaining cars were regarded - I suppose- by the Receiver as being not of saleable quality.

Nick4920

Hi Nick,

Cool photos!

It's a bit dark to tell for sure, but the shot from the rear looks like the car has the lower skirt fitted under the rear fascia which covers the view of the engine/sump - this was not fitted to production cars so might suggest this was a pilot car / training car - I wonder where it ended up?!

Thanks,
John

A Van
09-07-2011, 05:37 AM
Took a look at the catalogue, the low mileage cars were

513 - 70
529 - 534
534 - 381

Pilot 25 - 372

A Van
09-07-2011, 05:52 AM
Don't think it's Vin 513, it has the same type of logo as Rich pointed out, but no gas flap

Thanks to Thomas McCauley who recently helped get Vin 513 running again, he also took some pics

http://www.deloreaneurotec.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1741

A Van
09-07-2011, 06:31 AM
529 is in The Netherlands, I have asked Rob D if he knows the owner maybe it will have the skirt still fitted

Andy
09-07-2011, 08:14 AM
529 is in The Netherlands, I have asked Rob D if he knows the owner maybe it will have the skirt still fitted

VIN#529 is registered in BELGIUM at the moment and it was for sale a few years back ; I know know if it was sold ...

49304931

Dangermouse
09-07-2011, 09:14 AM
I wonder what could have earned it the dubious honor of 'not saleable quality' - it looks nice enough from these pics.
:)

I would presume in the case of the RHD car, that the receiver would have believed it would raise more money being sold in the UK than in the US, perhaps.

Perhaps also the rules for importing and selling a "new" car in the US would have precluded the cars with the higher 3000+ mileages?

A Van
09-07-2011, 10:08 AM
Andy, is that a flat bonnet?

Looks like it

My money is on Vin 534

DMCH James
09-07-2011, 11:53 AM
The "last car built" was 20104. The car that was given the last VIN (20105) was an earlier production car (confirmed by the early, coarse pontoons and chassis number), reportedly used for training purposes that that shipped to Columbus specifically with the intent to be skinned with the spare set of gold panels - which were at the parts center in Irvine - and raffled off by Consolidated. The car itself may be well-documented, and it may have a late VIN, but it is not a late car. This information comes from Leif Montin and Jeff Abrams.

James




The last car built...VIN20105...the last gold car, built on December 24, 1982
used the "spare" gold plated gas flap hood. This is a well documented late car.

DMCH James
09-07-2011, 12:43 PM
the Amex brochure showed a "gold-colored" D prototype (sliding windows) that had a gas flap hood, though.

Regardless of what was written elsewhere, C.R. Brown told me that they used the Visioneering car for the photos, and the "gold color" was added in the printing process.



It's a bit dark to tell for sure, but the shot from the rear looks like the car has the lower skirt fitted under the rear fascia which covers the view of the engine/sump - this was not fitted to production cars so might suggest this was a pilot car / training car - I wonder where it ended up?!


I've only seen this rear valance (which is actually part of the rear fascia) on one car - the Visioneering car which was used for many early press photos and the 1980 NADA show, per Barrie Wills. Also per Barrie, this car was also sent to Dunmurry for the "family night" at the factory and later flown back to the states where it had was used for testing of a couple different side stripe designs - I've got photos of those around here somewhere.

The earliest photos of the Visioneering car are easy to identify because the wheels are not actually wheels, but casts of the wheel, made into "hubcaps" and pressed on to the wheels. As soon as wheels were available, they were quickly put on the car.

IIRC, Tom Vertin also told me that Nick Fulcher flew to the states to finish up the interior of this car, as well. Maybe Al can ask him to confirm?

I've posted all the photos/press clipings of the Visioneering car(that were provided to me by Visioneering that were taken as the car was being built in Detroit in 1979) to the DeLorean Museum page on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/deloreanmuseum

James

dmcjohn
09-07-2011, 12:46 PM
The "last car built" was 20104. The car that was given the last VIN (20105) was an earlier production car (confirmed by the early, coarse pontoons and chassis number), reportedly used for training purposes that that shipped to Columbus specifically with the intent to be skinned with the spare set of gold panels - which were at the parts center in Irvine - and raffled off by Consolidated. The car itself may be well-documented, and it may have a late VIN, but it is not a late car. This information comes from Leif Montin and Jeff Abrams.

James

Hi James,

Regarding the last VIN number - 20114 exists in Ireland - it was one of the cars cut up and put back together.

John

dmcjohn
09-07-2011, 12:53 PM
I've posted all the photos/press clipings of the Visioneering car(that were provided to me by Visioneering that were taken as the car was being built in Detroit in 1979) to the DeLorean Museum page on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/deloreanmuseum

James

Hi James,

Those are the coolest photos I've seen in a long time, thanks for sharing them!

John

DMCH James
09-07-2011, 01:07 PM
I was under the impression that 20114 was one of the "kits" sold by the receiver - it was never a completed car, then cut up and put back together. The VIN plate on the car appears to be "home made" and isn't a factory style plate at all. Have any of the other cars turned up?

Now, we have doors here in the building with later VIN's written on them, including one as late as 20116. I think it's safe to say, however, that the last VIN that appeared on a factory "Manufacturer Statement of Origin" was 20105.

James

20098
09-07-2011, 02:35 PM
Speaking of door VIN's...VIN 20098 has written in black magic marker "V20111" along with a key code that I assume goes to VIN 20098.

FWIW

DMCH James
09-07-2011, 02:46 PM
Speaking of door VIN's...VIN 20098 has written in black magic marker "V20111" along with a key code that I assume goes to VIN 20098.

FWIW

Both doors? Is the sticker still on bottom of your steering column? What does it say?

Here is a photo of the new door with VIN 20116 (and some other cave art).

James

David T
09-07-2011, 04:06 PM
As I was told, the last car was assembled using the extra gold panels that DMC had to keep in inventory as part of the deal with AMEX when they built the other two gold cars. When they went to assemble it they couldn't find one of the doors and had to have another door gold plated. BIG problem, the door doesn't match the other panels. It is near impossible to match the plating unless they are all done at the same time. The car was assembled by Consolidated after DMC went bankrupt along with the other '83 cars. All of this is hearsay, I don't have any documentation. Since the car is "cobbled" together it seems to support the story. Last I heard the car is in Maryland owned by a Dentist and not being used. I know someone who has pictures of it in the garage.
David Teitelbaum

DMCH James
09-07-2011, 04:21 PM
Close, but not quite. The spare parts (one door was damaged) were held by DMC in Irvine. These parts (along with all the rest of the spares) were acquired by Consolidated, and shortly thereafter sold to Kapac. Jeff Abrams was in Irvine and saw the spare set of gold panels and had the idea to take one of the training cars that they found in Dunmurry and skin it with the spare set of panels and use one of the extra tan interiors in it, as well.

The car was shipped to Columbus, as were the spare panels/interior, and the car was completed in Columbus by Dick Craft (now deceased).

I've personally seen this car and the coarse pontoons, and the frame number (2155 - whereas VIN 20104 has a frame # of 9504). The current owner is in Maryland, and is not a dentist. The dentist who owned a gold plated DeLorean (VIN 1542) sold the car in the late 80's to someone in the Toronto area and has not re-surfaced.

James


As I was told, the last car was assembled using the extra gold panels that DMC had to keep in inventory as part of the deal with AMEX when they built the other two gold cars. When they went to assemble it they couldn't find one of the doors and had to have another door gold plated. BIG problem, the door doesn't match the other panels. It is near impossible to match the plating unless they are all done at the same time. The car was assembled by Consolidated after DMC went bankrupt along with the other '83 cars. All of this is hearsay, I don't have any documentation. Since the car is "cobbled" together it seems to support the story. Last I heard the car is in Maryland owned by a Dentist and not being used. I know someone who has pictures of it in the garage.
David Teitelbaum

tjd
09-07-2011, 06:01 PM
I've only seen this rear valance (which is actually part of the rear fascia) on one car - the Visioneering car which was used for many early press photos and the 1980 NADA show, per Barrie Wills. Also per Barrie, this car was also sent to Dunmurry for the "family night" at the factory and later flown back to the states where it had was used for testing of a couple different side stripe designs - I've got photos of those around here somewhere.

The earliest photos of the Visioneering car are easy to identify because the wheels are not actually wheels, but casts of the wheel, made into "hubcaps" and pressed on to the wheels. As soon as wheels were available, they were quickly put on the car.

IIRC, Tom Vertin also told me that Nick Fulcher flew to the states to finish up the interior of this car, as well. Maybe Al can ask him to confirm?

I've posted all the photos/press clipings of the Visioneering car(that were provided to me by Visioneering that were taken as the car was being built in Detroit in 1979) to the DeLorean Museum page on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/deloreanmuseum

James



Thanks for sharing the Visioneering car pics today. One of my favorite pieces of DeLorean history. I'm looking forward to more pics of this kind being shared by The DeLorean Museum.

Rich W
09-07-2011, 08:02 PM
Attaching a 3/4 rear view of what may be Pilot 22 (D22 on the PJ Grady UK website)
or just another view of the Visoneering Car, as James mentioned earlier.

4956

Another DeLorean owner pointed out the similarities in the rear view photo from Nick
and this photo, including the straps under the car in similar locations.

Note the "short" louvers and the lower valance on the rear fascia, which may point
to its identity as the Visoneering Car, as James indicated.

I can also confirm that the Visoneering Car had fabricated "hubcaps" that were made
with some type of resin compound(s). I have photos of the "caps" being made, most
likely where the Visoneering Car was being assembled. I showed the photos to Nick
recently, so I should be able to find one or two to post, from my photo archive.

Later,
Rich W.

tjd
09-07-2011, 08:11 PM
If DMCH have the blueprints for the lower valance I think this would be a great "new" accessory to offer that I'm sure would be a hit. I know I'd add the piece to my car, I don't know why it was deleted from the production car.

dvonk
09-08-2011, 12:06 AM
the Amex brochure showed a "gold-colored" D prototype (sliding windows) that had a gas flap hood.

Regardless of what was written elsewhere, C.R. Brown told me that they used the Visioneering car for the photos, and the "gold color" was added in the printing process.

ive always thought the Amex brochure looked 'colorized,' thanks for the info. :smile:



...The spare [gold] parts (one door was damaged) were held by DMC in Irvine. These parts (along with all the rest of the spares) were acquired by Consolidated, and shortly thereafter sold to Kapac. Jeff Abrams was in Irvine and saw the spare set of gold panels and had the idea to take one of the training cars that they found in Dunmurry and skin it with the spare set of panels and use one of the extra tan interiors in it, as well.

does anyone know what happened to the damaged gold door? was it just stripped and replated? if not, it would definitely be a neat piece for the museum... :thumbup2:

20098
09-08-2011, 12:09 AM
Not to get much more off topic...

Yes, both doors have the "V20111" written in marker along with my key code. The sticker on the underside of the column cover is yellow with "20098" written in blue pen as well as the same key code found on the doors.

1981 style exhaust, riveted dash and driver side VIN plates, frame number 009692 and engine number 000010196.




Both doors? Is the sticker still on bottom of your steering column? What does it say?

Here is a photo of the new door with VIN 20116 (and some other cave art).

James

Dangermouse
09-08-2011, 12:46 AM
Close, but not quite. The spare parts (one door was damaged) were held by DMC in Irvine. These parts (along with all the rest of the spares) were acquired by Consolidated, and shortly thereafter sold to Kapac. Jeff Abrams was in Irvine and saw the spare set of gold panels and had the idea to take one of the training cars that they found in Dunmurry and skin it with the spare set of panels and use one of the extra tan interiors in it, as well.

James

James. Where did the actual vin plate come from then. Were there some loose vin plates shipped from the factory after it went under?

Farrar
09-08-2011, 01:03 AM
If DMCH have the blueprints for the lower valance I think this would be a great "new" accessory to offer that I'm sure would be a hit. I know I'd add the piece to my car, I don't know why it was deleted from the production car.

I have always wanted something to shield my alternator from splashes and help the rear end look more finished;'this would accomplish both. I think it's a definite win if it goes into production!

Farrar

dvonk
09-08-2011, 02:29 AM
that would be cool, does anyone have some clearer photos of the lower valance?

DMCNY
09-08-2011, 10:11 AM
Nick and James, thank you for sharing the photo's.

On the Visioneering car, I noticed the fascia was made from fiberglass. Was this something they had thought of doing for production cars as well?

Sidaries
09-08-2011, 10:27 AM
Can somebody help me out and say why the Visioneering car is called Visioneering car?

Farrar
09-08-2011, 10:29 AM
Can somebody help me out and say why the Visioneering car is called Visioneering car?

It was built by Visioneering.

Farrar

DMCH James
09-08-2011, 10:33 AM
A brief description of the car, and how it came to be, is posted with the album of photos:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.254870127879250.66936.166957630003834&type=1

James


Can somebody help me out and say why the Visioneering car is called Visioneering car?

sean
09-08-2011, 10:34 AM
It was built by Visioneering.

Farrar
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/298292_254873937878869_166957630003834_801479_8816 20783_n.jpg
4960

Check out what James posted:


I've posted all the photos/press clipings of the Visioneering car(that were provided to me by Visioneering that were taken as the car was being built in Detroit in 1979) to the DeLorean Museum page on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/deloreanmuseum

James

DMCH James
09-08-2011, 11:02 AM
James. Where did the actual vin plate come from then. Were there some loose vin plates shipped from the factory after it went under?

The VIN plate may have been made up before it left Dunmurry. Remember that Consolidated put new VIN plates on all the assembled cars left at the factory when they acquired those cars - that's why the 15xxx, 16xxx and 17xxx VINs have glued on dash VIN plates and the numbers under the headliners are 10xxx, 11xxx and 12xxx.

Only the 20xxx VINs - reportedly the cars that were partially completed and still on the assembly line that had never had VIN plates installed - got the 20xxx VIN plates.

FWIW, we still have several thousand blank door jamb VIN plates.

James

sean
09-08-2011, 11:16 AM
FWIW, we still have several thousand blank door jamb VIN plates.

James
Are these for sale?

DMCH James
09-08-2011, 11:24 AM
Are these for sale?

These are not for sale...

James

sean
09-08-2011, 11:25 AM
These are not for sale...

James

Ugh.... you tease! :D That would be awesome to have, make a nice wall piece out of it.

A Van
09-08-2011, 05:31 PM
IIRC, Tom Vertin also told me that Nick Fulcher flew to the states to finish up the interior of this car, as well. Maybe Al can ask him to confirm?

I've posted all the photos/press clipings of the Visioneering car(that were provided to me by Visioneering that were taken as the car was being built in Detroit in 1979) to the DeLorean Museum page on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/deloreanmuseum

James

Sure, I will phone him tomorrow


Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

Dangermouse
09-08-2011, 08:42 PM
Only the 20xxx VINs - reportedly the cars that were partially completed and still on the assembly line that had never had VIN plates installed - got the 20xxx VIN plates.

FWIW, we still have several thousand blank door jamb VIN plates.

James

Do the 20xxx cars have windscreen vin plates at all? At what part of the production process were the windscreens put on?

A set of blank vin plates would make awesome drinks coasters. Just in time for Christmas. Hint hint :)

DMCH James
09-08-2011, 09:17 PM
Do the 20xxx cars have windscreen vin plates at all? At what part of the production process were the windscreens put on?

A set of blank vin plates would make awesome drinks coasters. Just in time for Christmas. Hint hint :)

The 20xxx VIN's do have riveted dash VIN plates. They were most likely attached to the dashes and then the dashes installed after the windscreens during production. If you remove one of the glued on dash VIN plates, you can see where the old one was drilled out, but we know from experience that it's next to impossible to rivet one back in with the dash/windscreen installed. Hence why the 15,16 and 17xxx dash plates are glued.

A set of blank VIN plates could also be used to for more nefarious purposes, which is why you won't see them sold in any way/form from us.

James

Dangermouse
09-08-2011, 10:06 PM
I had realized that you wouldn't just sell a completely blank plate for obvious reasons. But I thought you could stamp/etch something in the space where the vin goes - "merry Christmas 2011", "James' DeLorean" or something that would render it useless as a vin plate but create something out of it. Why keep them otherwise?

Ryan King
09-09-2011, 11:10 PM
James, do you guys also have the tooling for stamping the VIN plates?