Bosch EV12 injectors?

[FABombjoy]

Seem like a good candidate for Kjet heads. Anyone ever try?

I picked up a p/n 280157012 just to eyeball it. They're a fairly easy to find VW/Audi part. 4 hole injector, end cap looks to be the cone-type (not the two spray version) but I haven't ran any fluid through it to double check yet. 26.9lb/hr equivalent - plenty of overhead for power without being expensive.

Tip is just about at the opening to the intake port, not quite as long as a kjet injector but way closer to the intake path than most others.

52333

[Josh]

They look very similar to EV1/EV6 injectors I have used in the past, with the exception of the actual injection point on the bottom. the ev12s stick out very far.
If you are after a compact injector (height) I would suggest the 99+ Gm truck injectors. They are basically a stubby EV6

[FABombjoy]

They do seem like they will fit. I will probably have to swap one of the compressor bracket bolts for either a smaller head or an allen head. Or just remove it entirely since there are 3 other bolts and a belt to hold it in place :D Could install injector extension caps too but they're probably not needed.

I'mma gonna use 'em, we'll see how it goes!

[Delorean Industries]

We use that body style on our builds.

[FABombjoy]

I appreciate that you are willing to share that 😊

[Drive Stainless]

It really helps to keep the intake valves cleaner if the injectors spray onto them instead of the conventional Kjet design. Like night and day difference.

[FABombjoy]

So does meth injection!

[Delorean Industries]

We use a much higher lb rating though.

[opethmike]

So does meth injection!

52338

[FABombjoy]

We use a much higher lb rating though.
It's not the size of the injector, it's how you use it :D


52338
"I love meth. Methy meth meth. Here it goes down, down into my motor." -Walter Burgundy

[Delorean Industries]

Lol... High impedance injectors such as these are a bit flaky at duty cycles above 85%.

[FABombjoy]

I'm thinking the 031J from the Audi TT turbo is a winner as the TT makes 225HP with 4 of them @ 3b fuel pressure and takeoffs are plentiful.

You should shoot me a price of what you offer so I can weigh my options ;)

[opethmike]

You can calculate how big the injectors should be based on your expected horsepower; and best to not exceed 85% duty cycle for injector health.

[FABombjoy]

...plus a touch more for turbo cars...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170711/22c55a5421bb900f5268977c42911f8c.jpg

[FABombjoy]

EV6 vs EV12 dual cone test. Not super scientific but satisfying to my own curiosity.

EV12 look good. Seems the vast majority of "in the wild" EV12 are dual cone but both cones spray the valve nicely with very little (if any) wetting of the injector port wall.
EV6 is a bit dribbly since the injection point is higher and strikes the injector port wall. Single cone version would probably be preferred but I was having trouble finding them with usable flow numbers for anything but stock power levels.

Have decided on p/n 0280155897 (06A906031S) - 30lb/hr EV12 which are super cheap and plentiful. I'll profile dead times and post the results.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSxnyXPM85o

[FABombjoy]

Here it is, $200 later!

Injector dead time (latency) profile for 0 280 155 897
30LB Bosch EV12. Jetronic electrical connector. Plenty of headroom for a NA or moderate boost turbo 2.8. Used in 1.8T engines and "Cheap as chips" on eBay - I paid about $10/injector

Important Note:
These injectors have an angled spray pattern. To ensure good spray on the intake valve the electrical connectors must face the center of the block.

Jetronic connectors have a provision for weather boot but this will interfere with the intake manifold at cylinders 1,3,4,6. You can cut the boot mount off of the connector and backfill the terminals with suitable high temp silicone. This will not interfere with the weatherpack seal between the connector body & injector.

52854

How well do these injectors work? Hell if I know! I should have an answer in September :D

[opethmike]

Be sure to locate a Fanzilla to keep your engine temperature under control.

[Bob635]

Impressive research and testing.

[FABombjoy]

Thanks, hopefully it works out! I wish I had more time to properly test on-car using a fuel rail & pump.

Participation in EFI seems to have peaked but hopefully someone else might benefit from this data.

[Delorean Industries]

Thanks, hopefully it works out! I wish I had more time to properly test on-car using a fuel rail & pump.

Participation in EFI seems to have peaked but hopefully someone else might benefit from this data.

Sent you some goodies.

[FABombjoy]

Sent you some goodies.
Woohoo, thanks!

Before too long this ole' bucket of bolts might just move under its own power.

[FABombjoy]

Additional notes:

Earlier I said that only the 1/3/4/6 connectors would not fit due to the intake. Not sure why I said that as all 6 will not with with a stock Jetronic plug. I made up some "shortie" Jetronic plugs and all is well.

Here is a quick video of the actual spray pattern for the 0 280 155 897 injectors. No modifications to the stock K-Jetronic injector ports were made.

I didn't want to spray a ton of gasoline into the engine so it's only 4 sprays at 10ms. This is slightly lower than the lowest pulse needed to idle. It fans out nicely and pretty much bullseyes the intake valve. I'm hopeful that some efficiency gains can be had tuning injector timing in sequential mode.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPpeZuRZU28

Edit: Either Youtube or Premiere is making this clip look like two different types of spray but it really is the same video clip repeated 4 times.

[FABombjoy]

Another install note:

You really need to ensure extended tip injectors are completely parallel to the injector ports and do not contact the sides of the head.

Last night I ran some final boost leak tests on my turbo & intake system. Basically running compressed air into the turbo inlet and listening for leaks. In doing so the pressure against the injectors must have tweaked something and caused the extended injector tips to touch the sides of the head.

I started the car and heard what sounded like either rod knock or like one of the valve adjusters had disappeared. That was quite a disheartening noise considering the car was running fine just a few days earlier. You could hear it from the back left side but a stethoscope on the valve cover and lower block revealed nothing out of the ordinary.

While pondering what the noise could be - and noting that the engine was running OK even though it had a loud knocking noise - I was fine-tuning some injector parameters. When I switched from 1 squirt/cycle to 2 squirts, the speed of the knock doubled. I had no idea that an injector could be so loud.

I powered the engine down, did a quick visual check, and restarted. The noise was gone. Heat plus vacuum must have caused everything to reseat properly. At least I know what it is and if it happens again and will be double-checking squareness during my post-shakedown inspection.

Moral of the story: Consider paying a pro to convert your car to EFI

[BABIS]

for those who are using the EV12 injectors: have you had to change the lower o-ring to a bigger diameter one?

[FABombjoy]

I've worked on 2 conversions now and IIRC no diameter changes, just put new O rings on. They're pretty snug, we added just a touch of grease to get them in place without binding against the injector ports.

[Josh]

I had to lube it up quite alot before it would pop in. Very snug but it works.

[BABIS]

thanks guys. one vendor told me to install fatter orings to ensure the seal.
I have brand new injectors and the original orings fit quite right, but they aren't hard to install or remove at all

[FABombjoy]

There's definitely a "feel" for what's likely acceptable but it's hard to convey :)

As long as there is a bit of resistance, and if your rails are locked to the heads, everything should be fine. New O rings might make all the difference.

Should be easy to test the results with one of these:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?14435-How-to-Build-an-intake-manifold-leak-finder-for-about-20