It's SMOG time - Questions about Gas Caps & C/O Mixture & Timing Advance

[Chris 16409]

I just failed by SMOG inspection due to a combination of a bad gas cap and a too high NOx value at the 25 MPH test. I was told the NOx are supposed to decrease with a higher C/O mixture. Has anybody adjusted this themselves? I know you are supposed to use a wideband O2 sensor, but can you do it manually? Josh Bengston said the value should be at 14.7.

On the gas cap front, I seem to remember hearing this is a problem area. I know Houston has reproductions available. If any of you have any experience with these, have they been trouble free? I don't want to buy a new one if it still won't hold pressure. Does anybody have any aftermarket suggestions on gas caps?

My buddy Ryan will chime in on the timing advance. The sort version, his engine is set at like 19 degrees because he has Stage II. That of coarse is not stock spec, so they failed him for that.

We'd appreciate your input, thanks.

Oh and remember we're in California so we have to deal with more bull crap!

[Ryan King]

Here is my print out from the smog shop... :/

5191

[Cory W]

I bought a new cap a year ago from Midwest. It's a better seal than the one I took off the car. Your fuel cap pressure should be no problem with one.

[Ryan King]

The Smog Shop owner was saying that I need to have my distributor adjusted to put it back into spec for timing. I tried explaining to him that my car has a bigger engine with larger cams. But he insisted the distributor has to be corrected. He wants to charge me 44 dollars to do so.

[TTait]

Ryan/Chris...

We've talked about Ryan coming down anyway... I've got a guy thats cool - that said he will not pass the car if its not running right - but there isn't going to be any BS about distributor advance or any of that. You might plan on tweaking the mix a hair and then redoing the inspection down here.

For anyone else in the LA area (SF Valley actually) I highly recommend http://www.joessmogcheck.com/

He does all of my cars, and now he does many of my friends too...

My car has the same distributor timing as yours - no problem there. I might be able to somehow help with your gas cap problem too (ahem).

Tom

[content22207]

Just detune the car to pass the test, then readvance the timing after you get home. Surely you can borrow a gas cap from someone for the test (it's a standard size). Once you have your certification, put the car back the way it was.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[TTait]

I might be able to somehow help with your gas cap problem too (ahem).

Tom


Surely you can borrow a gas cap from someone

But who? (ahem) :shhh:

[Bitsyncmaster]

I just failed by SMOG inspection due to a combination of a bad gas cap and a too high NOx value at the 25 MPH test. I was told the NOx are supposed to decrease with a higher C/O mixture. Has anybody adjusted this themselves? I know you are supposed to use a wideband O2 sensor, but can you do it manually? Josh Bengston said the value should be at 14.7.


Your standard narrow band O2 sensor should be holding 14.7 if your Lambda system is working and adjusted properly. Have you adjusted the mixture with a dwell?

[Chris 16409]

Your standard narrow band O2 sensor should be holding 14.7 if your Lambda system is working and adjusted properly. Have you adjusted the mixture with a dwell?

No, I don't have a dwell meter. Here's my SMOG report as well.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I can't believe they check ignition timing. Why should they care as long as the smog readings are in?

You look good a lower RPM and it does show your lower with CO at the higher RPM so your mixture must be lean. You need to see if your FV dwell is working properly.

Also the tank pressure test is not only the cap. If your pump boot is not tight you would leak the pressure. You can get a better seal on the boot by clamping just the pump boot and not the pump cover. They can't see the pump cover is not clamped:lol:

You may also want to verify your mechanical advance is working. I think it should have full advance at 2500 RPM.

[Ryan King]

Also the tank pressure test is not only the cap.

They actually took our caps off and pressure tested them. California is ridiculous.

[Ashyukun]

They actually took our caps off and pressure tested them. California is ridiculous.

Dang. :eek7: That's patently ridiculous. Makes me all the more glad I live in a state that doesn't require emissions inspections (though to my annoyance I still can't find a shop that will put the new cat-less exhaust system on... -_- ).

[TTait]

I can't believe they check ignition timing.

Also the tank pressure test is not only the cap.

In CA they do not check pressure at the tank, they just take the gas cap and hook it up to a vacuum hose to see if it seals well.

My guy just asked me if I knew what the timing was, and typed it in.

[David T]

Here in New Jersey they used to check (or at least try checking) the gas cap. I would always fail and they let it go. Eventually an edict came down from on high that the stations did not have the proper adapter and that they could no longer test the gas cap (at least for Deloreans). The used to pressurize tanks but after blowing up some they only test newer cars. If you are having trouble passing NOX and you have non-standard cams you can try adjusting the timing, that should get you to pass. It will probably degrade the power so after passing the test you may want to reset the timing. Make sure you have fresh fuel in the tank for the test.
David Teitelbaum

[Masaes727]

Dang. :eek7: That's patently ridiculous. Makes me all the more glad I live in a state that doesn't require emissions inspections (though to my annoyance I still can't find a shop that will put the new cat-less exhaust system on... -_- ).

you need to goto Eastern Kentucky for that, i.e. Maysville or come up here to Indy and we can get it done.

[Agent Smith]

Just to clear some things up:

1) California now does a low pressure evap test. This involves pressurizing the entire fuel system. There's a provision in the rules that if the evap cannister isn't accessible the tech has discretion in not performing the test. However, since the evap line is accessible, most techs will still do the test if they figure out where the line is.

2) Timing is checked.

3) The OP's test results show his engine to be in fuel control. Therefore the high NOx is due to something other than a non-stoichiometric feed gas.

[Bitsyncmaster]

2) Timing is checked.

You can just move the timing plate if you want to keep a non-standard timing. I don't imagine they check TDC :deedledee:

[Agent Smith]

I'm simply saying it's part of the test protocol. I always test these cars before they go in and that includes the evap. My experience has been they all leak like sieves until corrected. With a little effort they can be made tight through.

Btw for all who think Cali is tough on smog it's far from being worst. Try living in a state that does the IM240 Drive Cycle rather than the ASM Loaded Mode. Furthermore, enhanced testing with the ASM is only done in urban parts of the state. Most residents get to do only the Two Speed Idle test and those who live in many places don't have to test at all until a car changes hands. It may not be fair but that's the way it is.

[Chris 16409]

Before I break down and decide to take my car to a shop to be looked at, I decided to buy a Dwell Meter from Sears to take some readings. Here's the one I bought:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/ProductDisplay?partNumber=00902165000P&storeId=10153&blockType=G1&blockNo=1&catalogId=12605&prdNo=1&i_cntr=1316486793564

A note on this particular meter. Normally you are supposed to set the meter to the 4-Cylinder mode. However, this meter just has two scales printed on the face of it. One is for 6-cylinder engines and the other is for 8-cylinder engines. You simply double the 8-cylinder scale to get a 4-cylinder reading.

Initially, I was under the impression that my car was running lean, but it seems I discovered it was quite the opposite. Once the car had warmed up and I was getting the swinging needle, the meter read between 10 and 20. From what I've gathered on the forum and speaking with Dave a DMC-MW, the needle should be swinging between around 35-40. So i thought, well I must be running lean. However, to bring the swinging needle in that 35-40 range, I had to turn the mixture screw counterclockwise. This didn't make sense to me, why would I have to lean it out to make the needle read higher? After speaking with Dave, I learned it was reading between 10 and 20 because the car was actually set too rich, and the computer was trying to lean the mixture out.

So, It seems I have it set correctly now, and I hope having done this will allow my car to pass smog. I may still take it to a shop and have them hook up a wideband O2 sensor to see if I'm holding 14.7 AFR. The link below is a video I took of the dwell meter taking a reading on my car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbE-2k4Cy4E

[Chris 16409]

It looks like the DeLorean Gods were smiling down on me today, I passed my SMOG test! It appears that the adjustments I made were good enough to pass. Crisis averted until next time. It's funny because when I retested at a different shop, they didn't have adaptor for the gas cap, and he just passed it.

[yellowmxwheels23]

Mine failed today because I have the Hearvy ss air box,(They said non oem/modified) gas cap failed, secondary ignition timing is out of spec,and evap test failed.
Hope it's an easy fix or I'll have to go out and use my AZ address to register it.(no smog check in N. AZ)

[Chris 16409]

I really do hate CA in regards to SMOG checks. The second SMOG station I went to didn't have the appropriate adapter to test the as cap, do he just passed me. Is your timing out of spec because of a Stage II engine, or just for more performance?

[Delorean Industries]

It is hit or miss on what stage II cars are set at. I have seen it as high as 17 or so. This is also the setting that Steger recommends for his cam offering. (We suggestion 19) If he has a stock engine he may just have a vacuum issue to the distributor advance even. Need more details before making a call on it.

I do hate the state of CA emmisions for this reason as well. When we build engines for owners on the west coast more times then not I have to fly out and make adjustments on site to pass smog.

[David T]

Most States have Historic or some other classification that exempts you from emission testing. If at all possible that should be the way to go. I don't know if CA allows that though.
David Teitelbaum

[Ron]

Some states allow an exemption if you can show that you have spent over a given amount of money (although quite high usually) to fix 'the problem'......

[Ryan King]

Im STILL having problems with getting my car to pass SMOG. I took it to a different shop, and sure enough...they whipped out a timing gun. My car is at 18 degrees. So they failed it. The car is passing emissions perfectly. But each shop wants to charge me in the 50 dollar region to adjust the timing back to spec and charge for a retest. I would rather adjust the timing myself.

I was told it was simple. just hook up a standard timing gun, loosen the distributor bolt, and slowly turn it counter clock-wise. Am I correct? Advice??

-Ryan

[Bitsyncmaster]

Im STILL having problems with getting my car to pass SMOG. I took it to a different shop, and sure enough...they whipped out a timing gun. My car is at 18 degrees. So they failed it. The car is passing emissions perfectly. But each shop wants to charge me in the 50 dollar region to adjust the timing back to spec and charge for a retest. I would rather adjust the timing myself.

I was told it was simple. just hook up a standard timing gun, loosen the distributor bolt, and slowly turn it counter clock-wise. Am I correct? Advice??

-Ryan

Yes that is all you do to adjust the timing. Just kind of hard to get too.

[Ryan King]

Yes that is all you do to adjust the timing. Just kind of hard to get too.

Dave, have you done it before?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dave, have you done it before?

I have not adjusted mine. Mine is at 13 deg already. But that is how you do it on any car.

You could move the marking plate. The two bolts are lock-tited in but I was able to pull mine out carefully. I did that to put stainless bolts in it.

[TTait]

Ryan,

It could be geographic as well, some areas in the state have slightly different requirements as to what must be tested IIRC.
I have never had my timing checked in CA, but I'm in the LA area. not sure if you could pass if you just came down here, or if a local inspector would still check timing because of the address you use for registration. I'd call around a little and ask.

Either that, or just move the timing plate as others have suggested.

I'd be concerned that it might not pass if you change the timing back to standard... Its a fairly easy adjustment, with a few caveats: Gettng a socket down in there to loosen up the locking bolt is tough, but doable. If however the distributor won't rotate far enough to get it back into spec, then you have to re-stab the distributor, rotating it one or 2 gear teeth, and reinsert it into the head. That is a bigger pain. Read through the manual on installing the distributer and it will make the process clearer.

Tom

[deloumis]

Im STILL having problems with getting my car to pass SMOG. I took it to a different shop, and sure enough...they whipped out a timing gun. My car is at 18 degrees. So they failed it. The car is passing emissions perfectly. But each shop wants to charge me in the 50 dollar region to adjust the timing back to spec and charge for a retest. I would rather adjust the timing myself.

I was told it was simple. just hook up a standard timing gun, loosen the distributor bolt, and slowly turn it counter clock-wise. Am I correct? Advice??

-Ryan

Its pretty easy to set the timing, yes that is correct the way you mentioned. The hard part is to loosen the bolt to the distributor. What Dave mentioned about moving the marker will work, just mark it somehow to be able to move it back. That will be a lot easier to do than move timing.

[Ryan King]

My car has a Stage II engine in it, so that probably has a lot to do with it. I have never had this problem in the 7 years Ive owned the car. Does anyone have photos of said bolt that needs to be loosened? Maybe link me to a photo on the Texas DeLorean's website?

[Ryan King]

Its pretty easy to set the timing, yes that is correct the way you mentioned. The hard part is to loosen the bolt to the distributor. What Dave mentioned about moving the marker will work, just mark it somehow to be able to move it back. That will be a lot easier to do than move timing.

Woah Woah Woah. Just re-read this. Would that work!?! Youre talking in regards to this?? - http://store.delorean.com/p-6160-timing-plate.aspx
So I could move this marker counter clock wise to make the timing gun THINK its in Spec?

Is there any possible damage that could occur to my engine having it at 18 degrees instead of the suggest 13 degrees? But as it was said earlier, DMC-CA + Stage II engines seem to run at that.

[DMCMW Dave]

Is there any possible damage that could occur to my engine having it at 18 degrees instead of the suggest 13 degrees? But as it was said earlier, DMC-CA + Stage II engines seem to run at that.

Does it knock/ping when accerating? If so, there is damage that can occur to your engine (i.e. holes in pistons).

[Ryan King]

Does it knock/ping when accerating? If so, there is damage that can occur to your engine (i.e. holes in pistons).

I havent heard any knocks or pings...which is why I am concerned. I heard that could happen. What do you think I should do, Dave?

[DMCMW Dave]

I'd reset the timing to spec for your inspection (or find another inspector) and then put it back where it is assuming it runs better that way. OR leave it if you don't notice anything.

[fnzen]

By the way the DeLorean has a CA waiver for the fuel system check, DMC CA can fax it to whatever smog place you are at ......another suggestion bring it to a check only place otherwise they are out to make $$$$$$

[David T]

You have to get the timing back to spec to pass emissions. While you have the timing light on you should check the vacuum and mechanical advance. If your base timing really is 18 degrees you are WAY off, no wonder it isn't passing. My guess is one of your advance mechanisms is stuck. As for the leakage in your fuel system, I would also question if it is really the fuel cap. Are they testing it separately or while it is on the car? Here in NJ they didn't have the right adapter to properly test the cap by itself and the system had an exemption specifically for the Delorean in it's database. You also should do some preparations before you go for testing.Run the tank as far down as you can and get a 1/2 tank of fresh gas. Put a new air filter in if the old one has been in there a while. Make sure the Lambda system is working (the frequency valve is buzzing). If it has been a long time since a tune-up maybe you should do it. If you are not getting good gas mileage (over 20 MPG) you should have the injectors cleaned and any vacuum leaks fixed. Maybe adjust the valves and replace the O2 sensor and have the mixture checked and adjusted if necessary. This can cost more than the $50 to get it passed so maybe that is the way to go, let the shop adjust the distributor.
David Teitelbaum

[Chris 16409]

Helped Ryan with his timing plate.

[Chris 16409]

Well it's time to re-hash this thread. Got my registration in the mail about a week and a half ago and of course it's time for another SMOG check. Since I didn't have any issues with the place I took it to last time, and because it's not that far from my house, I took it back. However, this time the technician notices my SPEC 1 exhaust system and says "Oh that's not supposed to be there." "That is not right." Apparently the shop must have missed it last time. Go figure! Needless to say, I was not blessed with a "PASS". The owner of the shop said he had to "research" the exhaust system and would get back to me. He said that I could go, and mind you I didn't pay for the SMOG check. Maybe he just wanted me out of his shop with no "Evidence" that my car was there! If you piss off the all mighty California Bureau of Automotive Repair you will get hit with major fines. You know you've "arrived" as society when your state has an actual entity called the "Bureau of Automotive Repair." I guess we wouldn't want the DMV in charge of this. All joking aside, I just went to another shop who didn't care about my "non-stock exhaust" and I passed. Just for fun, I hooked my car up to my dwell meter before I took it in, and the reading didn't change from when I set 2 years ago. So I'm good for another two years.

I just wish California would make cars of our vintage SMOG exempt already. I mean seriously, how many cars from the early 80's are left on the road spewing out tons of pollution! I mean really, the DeLorean is pretty clean. My Carbon Monoxide readings were like 0.02! I believe that's hardly enough to snuff yourself out if you run the car with the garage closed! Anyway, feel free to tell your ridiculous SMOG related experiences.

[NightFlyer]

Trust me - you don't want me to go there. :bang:

[Chris 16409]

Well, it's 2015, and what do you know it's time to SOMG the DeLorean. My registration is due in September, so I decided to get the test done early to see where I stood. I got it tested in mid-July and here were the results:

36062

I failed because the NOx was 1029 at the 25 mph test. The max allowed is 936.

Afterward, I checked the dwell and it was a bit off, so I adjusted it. I didn't get around to re-testing it until today. I went back to the same place and here are results I got:

36063

This time I passed! This time I got 745 out of a possible 936. Also, the NOx at the 15 mph test went up to 1022 with a max of 1106.

What did I do different to get such different results? Not a whole lot. The second time I used Chevron Premium gas instead of Costco 91. Also, I had driven the car for a longer period of time prior to my second test. I guess the catalytic converters perform better when they are nice and hot. I also wonder if there is natural variation between Individual SMOG tests, or how the technician operates the car during the test. What's funny is that my results this year are better than two years ago. Two years ago the max NOx for the 15 mph test was 1136, and I blew 1109. The Max NOx at 25 mph was 966 and I blew a 915. Not sure why the numbers were lower this year. AND it looks like the max numbers allowed are being lowered. I just hope CA doesn't "price us out of the market" as it were. We really can't afford it if max numbers are decreased anymore.

[David T]

Well, it's 2015, and what do you know it's time to SOMG the DeLorean. My registration is due in September, so I decided to get the test done early to see where I stood. I got it tested in mid-July and here were the results:

36062

I failed because the NOx was 1029 at the 25 mph test. The max allowed is 936.

Afterward, I checked the dwell and it was a bit off, so I adjusted it. I didn't get around to re-testing it until today. I went back to the same place and here are results I got:

36063

This time I passed! This time I got 745 out of a possible 936. Also, the NOx at the 15 mph test went up to 1022 with a max of 1106.

What did I do different to get such different results? Not a whole lot. The second time I used Chevron Premium gas instead of Costco 91. Also, I had driven the car for a longer period of time prior to my second test. I guess the catalytic converters perform better when they are nice and hot. I also wonder if there is natural variation between Individual SMOG tests, or how the technician operates the car during the test. What's funny is that my results this year are better than two years ago. Two years ago the max NOx for the 15 mph test was 1136, and I blew 1109. The Max NOx at 25 mph was 966 and I blew a 915. Not sure why the numbers were lower this year. AND it looks like the max numbers allowed are being lowered. I just hope CA doesn't "price us out of the market" as it were. We really can't afford it if max numbers are decreased anymore.


There are a LOT of variables. For instance:
the formulation of the gasoline varies season to season and year to year
The ambient temperature
the air pressure
the calibration of the test equipment
the diligence with which the inspectors perform the test
As you can see there is a lot that is not under your control. California is a VERY strict State and it gets tougher every year. The good news is a well tuned Delorean is a very clean running car.

[Chris 16409]

I really hope California makes our cars SMOG exempt at some point. There are not enough on the road to pollute. I should contact my state Representative.

[Chris 16409]

I was looking through some of my old DeLorean files that I received with the car, and I came across an old SMOG report from 1999. It's crazy, the MAX allowed NOx was 2253 ppm! The sate is really trying hard to get old cars off the road. It just goes to show how clean the DeLorean was/is. It can still meet 2015 requirements. If they keep reducing the allowable NOx, eventually our cars will not pass.

36118

[David T]

I was looking through some of my old DeLorean files that I received with the car, and I came across an old SMOG report from 1999. It's crazy, the MAX allowed NOx was 2253 ppm! The sate is really trying hard to get old cars off the road. It just goes to show how clean the DeLorean was/is. It can still meet 2015 requirements. If they keep reducing the allowable NOx, eventually our cars will not pass.

36118

The Ethanol laced fuel is a big help to reducing NOX. No one considered it back in the '80's. Also realize the Delorean was one of VERY few cars with fuel injection. The regs were written back then for mostly carburated cars which are a lot dirtier. That's why you can still keep up with the stricter rules but you are correct, one year you will not be able to pass except under some exemption or waiver (if any are granted). Most States will allow Collector or Historical but with mileage limitations so the car can't be used regularly as a daily driver.

[Chris 16409]

It's been a tradition that I update this thread every time my car is due for a smog check. I neglected to give an update in 2017 when I had a smog check. I'll attach that report along with my new report for 2019. I was able to smog the car and was pleasantly surprised to see the NOx were the lowest they have ever been. I've had a DPI SPEC 1 exhaust since 2011 or so. I'm glad the catalytic converters have held up over the years.

This is the report from 2017

61204


This is the new report for 2019

61203


The NOx levels were half of what they were in 2017! Nothing mechanically substantial was done to the car in the last two years. I think the weather and ambient temperature have effects on these smog checks.

[mark w]

Its true, every year allowable MAX limits decrease. Its the way it works- the idea is too weed out older, worn out cars over time. No consideration for collector or low mileage cars worth more now then they were new (aka DeLorean). The "system" doesnt care that your car, of any type was made for a different era... with different technology.

[David T]

Most States do make exceptions for older cars, collector cars, cars that have limited use. The theory is that even if they do pollute more than a modern car, they aren't used much so the total pollution is small. What they don't want is people trying to avoid the rules by getting an old car and using it in place of a newer, cleaner running car as a daily driver. California is in a place all by itself with their exceptionally strict rules and they keep making them stricter and stricter. Pretty soon al that you will be able to drive will be the electric cars!

[Quinn]

By the way the DeLorean has a CA waiver for the fuel system check, DMC CA can fax it to whatever smog place you are at ......another suggestion bring it to a check only place otherwise they are out to make $$$$$$


I tried contacting DMC CA about getting a copy of this waiver letter, but haven't heard back from them yet. Has anybody seen this letter, or have a copy that they can share?

[Rich]

I tried contacting DMC CA about getting a copy of this waiver letter, but haven't heard back from them yet. Has anybody seen this letter, or have a copy that they can share?

You're referring to a 10 year old post (from Sept. 12, 2012) in this thread:

"By the way the DeLorean has a CA waiver for the fuel system check, DMC CA can fax it to whatever smog place you are at"

A. The old post says there's a waiver for the "fuel system check", which sounds like just part of the full smog test, not a waiver of the entire test. Is a "fuel system check" waiver what you're trying to chase down?

B. To answer the question in your post I've never heard of such a waiver. We've been smogging our D here in the Bay Area for decades. No need for a waiver so far but you never know...

Let us know if DMC CA replies about having any useful backup docs for you to solve whatever your problem might be.

[David T]

You're referring to a 10 year old post (from Sept. 12, 2012) in this thread:

"By the way the DeLorean has a CA waiver for the fuel system check, DMC CA can fax it to whatever smog place you are at"

A. The old post says there's a waiver for the "fuel system check", which sounds like just part of the full smog test, not a waiver of the entire test. Is a "fuel system check" waiver what you're trying to chase down?

B. To answer the question in your post I've never heard of such a waiver. We've been smogging our D here in the Bay Area for decades. No need for a waiver so far but you never know...

Let us know if DMC CA replies about having any useful backup docs for you to solve whatever your problem might be.

I don't know of any waiver or paper than DMC CA could produce that would have any standing in CA unless it is a reprint of something CA granted already. The general rule is that a car MUST pass all of the standards that were in place when the car was manufactured. What CA is doing is making older cars pass newer standards, standards that the cars were never designed to pass. For instance, in 1981-82 nobody was testing the fuel systems for leakage. Lucky for us the Delorean IS equipped with a system to capture emissions from the gas tank so it *could* pass maybe. Depends on the test. It also depends on if your system is still working, for instance the seal on the gas cap is not old, tired and hard allowing some vapors to leak. Or maybe it isn't even hooked up! Here in New Jersey when they were testing the fuel system, they tried to test the gas cap on my car. They could not find an adapter to fit it to the test equipment so they just passed me. Finally they actually exempted me from the test. Now, because I have Historic plates they don't inspect me anymore except to read the speedometer. You need to do some research to see exactly what they are supposed to inspect and what levels you are expected to meet. Or see if you can get Collector or Historic status unless you want to use the car as a daily driver.

[Quinn]

You're referring to a 10 year old post (from Sept. 12, 2012) in this thread:

"By the way the DeLorean has a CA waiver for the fuel system check, DMC CA can fax it to whatever smog place you are at"

A. The old post says there's a waiver for the "fuel system check", which sounds like just part of the full smog test, not a waiver of the entire test. Is a "fuel system check" waiver what you're trying to chase down?

B. To answer the question in your post I've never heard of such a waiver. We've been smogging our D here in the Bay Area for decades. No need for a waiver so far but you never know...

Let us know if DMC CA replies about having any useful backup docs for you to solve whatever your problem might be.


Hi Rich,

I'm not looking for a waiver of the entire test. I'm assuming the "fuel system check" that the original poster is referring to, is the low pressure EVAP test. This is a separate portion of the overall smog test, where they check to see if you have any leaks between your fuel tank and charcoal canister. My car ultimately failed this part of the smog test, after much deliberation by the smog technician whether it had to be done at all, on a Delorean. He checked with 6 other of his associates at other smog stations and half of them said it had to be done, and the other half of them said it didn't. So, he couldn't complete my smog test that Saturday. During the following week, my smog tech contacted BAR for the final verdict. Whoever answered the phone that day, said to do the EVAP test. So, I took my car in the following Saturday and it passed all the tests, except for the EVAP portion.....of course. To make it even more frustrating, the tech looked up the smog history on my individual car, and noted that the EVAP test had only been performed about half of the times. In passing, I mentioned that I had seen a comment posted about possibly waiving the EVAP portion of the test. If I can get him a copy, he said he might be able use it to pass the test on my car.

[Rich]

Hi Rich,

I'm not looking for a waiver of the entire test. I'm assuming the "fuel system check" that the original poster is referring to, is the low pressure EVAP test. .... To make it even more frustrating, the tech looked up the smog history on my individual car, and noted that the EVAP test had only been performed about half of the times. In passing, I mentioned that I had seen a comment posted about possibly waiving the EVAP portion of the test. If I can get him a copy, he said he might be able use it to pass the test on my car.

Hi Quinn,
Sorry to see you're finding tests not being done consistently and, worse, that the techs don't all agree on what tests need to be done.

The EVAP waiver, if you can find it and if it works, is an easy solution.

Another easy solution may be diagnosing and repairing the Evap system, which is very simple and has good parts availability. The repairs you could probably do yourself - not sure what the diagnostics will consist of besides maybe a smoke test to find anything disconnected or missing.

Another option is to take it to a CARB referee (https://asktheref.org/about/program-background/). "The mission of the Smog Check Referee Program is to assist qualified California motorists through the smog check process"

It's conceivable the DMC CA waiver, if it exists, came from a CARB referee decision somewhere.

I'm sure you'll find a way.





(https://asktheref.org/about/program-background/)

[Chris 16409]

I?ve never had the EVAP test done in all my years of ownership. I have attached screenshots of the SMOG manual. It says if part of the car has to be disassembled to access the charcoal canister then the test is not applicable. Our canisters are behind the access panel.

69239

69240

The smog techs are not supposed to disassemble any part of the car. Show them the manual.

[Rich]

Nice catch there, Chris. This answer looks equivalent to a "waiver".
You may be qualified to be a CARB referee. At least you know how to find and read the CARB rulebook, something a few of Quinn's knucklehead smog technicians couldn't manage.

The rules explain something I began wondering about:
My last two CA smog test reports both noted the "Fuel Evaporative Controls Functional" test was Not Applicable on our car. Now I see why.

And CA owners now have a reason to be happy the D's charcoal canister is strapped away inside the left pontoon, unseen and untested.

I've filed the two photos you posted in case I ever need to smog our D at a station with a confused technician.
Recommending other CA owners whose Ds are registered in CARB smog-regulated counties do the same.

Please let us know how well this works for you, Quinn.

[Quinn]

Nice catch there, Chris. This answer looks equivalent to a "waiver".
You may be qualified to be a CARB referee. At least you know how to find and read the CARB rulebook, something a few of Quinn's knucklehead smog technicians couldn't manage.

The rules explain something I began wondering about:
My last two CA smog test reports both noted the "Fuel Evaporative Controls Functional" test was Not Applicable on our car. Now I see why.

And CA owners now have a reason to be happy the D's charcoal canister is strapped away inside the left pontoon, unseen and untested.

I've filed the two photos you posted in case I ever need to smog our D at a station with a confused technician.
Recommending other CA owners whose Ds are registered in CARB smog-regulated counties do the same.

Please let us know how well this works for you, Quinn.

My tech already has these very same documents. He called BAR because the document is ambiguous. It's poorly written. If you read it closely, it says that the charcoal canister and the lines must not be accessible. Both conditions must be met, in order to be exempt. The BAR representative told him that the test has to be performed, since vent lines are accessible and can be pinched off, even if the canister can't be accessed.

I'm kind of over it now. I'd rather just get the lines fixed, if I do indeed have a leak somewhere. It's just frustrating that we are being governed by a document that is open to interpretation. If I had taken my car to the other smog shop a couple blocks down the street, we may not even be having this conversation. It's just my luck that I would randomly take it to Dudley Do-right.