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View Full Version : Suspension Observation: Steering Wheel Turns Lock-to-Lock, 1 Full Turn - Left, 1.5 Turns-Right



DeloreanJoshQ
05-30-2011, 05:43 PM
I made a new observation today:
The steering wheel turns lock-to-lock, 1 full turn to the left and 1.5 turns to the right...
I understand that this makes sense because turning right requires a more tight turn than turning left on roads, but doesn't help in drive-thrus that always turn left and when in parking lots. Why wasn't the car designed to make tighter turns or have a variable speed gear-box(turns faster the more you turn the wheel with the worm gear)?
Is it possible to do any mods to the steering rack and steering components?
Just wondering....
The turning circle has been my only slight pet peeve when driving the car....

Josh Q

tyb323
05-30-2011, 05:45 PM
You may need an alignment to set it back to normal, it should be even on both sides. As for turning radius, yeah... Just yeah...

DeloreanJoshQ
05-30-2011, 05:50 PM
You may need an alignment to set it back to normal, it should be even on both sides. As for turning radius, yeah... Just yeah...

I had the car aligned already....doesn't mean it isn't correct, but how would you correct that?

So it should be 1.25 turns from center to left and center to right?

Can anyone turn their wheels from center to left and center to right to confirm?


Thanks!

David T
05-30-2011, 05:59 PM
Something is not properly centered. A good alignment shop should have fixed that.
David Teitelbaum

DeloreanJoshQ
05-30-2011, 06:01 PM
Something is not properly centered. A good alignment shop should have fixed that.
David Teitelbaum

How many turns can you make from center to left and center to right on your car David?

David T
05-30-2011, 10:17 PM
With the steering wheel centered straight-ahead I can turn 1 1/4 turns either side to the "lock". That gives a total of 2 1/2 turns from full right to full left. And when the wheel is centered the car should go straight. And when the car goes straight it should not "lead" to either side on a flat (not crowned) road. There should be NO detectable looseness or play in the steering wheel. If you watch the wheels and properly inflate them you should notice even wear across the tread. You have the correct amount of turns, you just have too much on one side. You need to have the steering centered. Somehow the rack is mispositioned or they have the tie rod ends WAY misadjusted. A good alignment shop should be able to fix this.
David Teitelbaum

tyb323
05-30-2011, 10:41 PM
It's fixable. My car was only doing 3/4 turn to the left for a while there...

DMCMW Dave
05-31-2011, 08:10 AM
The alignment shop needs to center the rack. This will probably leave your steering wheel aimed the wrong direction when going straight forward. You will then need to pull the wheel off and center that. Then you will probably find it off a little, i.e. 1/2 spline one way or the other. THEN you can center the wheel by tweaking the front end alignment in tiny increments.

What has happened is that someone centered the alignment in favor of the wheel by adjusting the rack, and didn't pay attention to the fact that in one direction the tire is hitting the sway bar and in the other it can't turn far enough.

DeloreanJoshQ
05-31-2011, 12:26 PM
The alignment shop needs to center the rack. This will probably leave your steering wheel aimed the wrong direction when going straight forward. You will then need to pull the wheel off and center that. Then you will probably find it off a little, i.e. 1/2 spline one way or the other. THEN you can center the wheel by tweaking the front end alignment in tiny increments.

What has happened is that someone centered the alignment in favor of the wheel by adjusting the rack, and didn't pay attention to the fact that in one direction the tire is hitting the sway bar and in the other it can't turn far enough.

The rack and pinion was replaced with a rebuilt rack by the previous owner.

Can't I just center the rack with the steering wheel, unhook the steering column intermediate shaft from the rack, then turn the intermediate column shaft so that the steering wheel is straight again, hook it back up, and then adjust the tie rod ends?

jbreeden
05-31-2011, 12:39 PM
As for turning radius, yeah... Just yeah...

On the Jay Leno's Garage episode about the Delorean, Leno made a comment about the car having a good turn radius.

Sure, uh-huh, right.

Chris4099
05-31-2011, 12:44 PM
Can't I just center the rack with the steering wheel, unhook the steering column intermediate shaft from the rack, then turn the intermediate column shaft so that the steering wheel is straight again, hook it back up, and then adjust the tie rod ends?

That is exactly what you need to do. However, disconnecting the steering shaft can be more difficult then just pulling the steering wheel. Pull the wheel and adjust it so that when it's centered, you can turn it equal distance left/right. It's now centered to the rack. Then take it to an alignment shop so they will readjust the tie rod ends.

Chances are when the PO installed the new rack, he didn't center it properly. The alignment shop then simply centered the wheel and aligned it. They should have noticed an issue as most likely one of the tie rod ends is maxed out on adjustment.

DMCMW Dave
05-31-2011, 01:05 PM
Can't I just center the rack with the steering wheel, unhook the steering column intermediate shaft from the rack, then turn the intermediate column shaft so that the steering wheel is straight again, hook it back up, and then adjust the tie rod ends?

Yes but - . There is a flat on the rack so that the column only fits one way. To move the wheel in relation to the rack you have to do it at the top fitting or at the wheel itself. You should center the rack first, i.e. make sure it travels the same left and right, THEN align the wheel. There is no left/right "stop" in the column, so you need to fix whatever is wrong at the rack.

You will probably find that one of the tire rod ends has LOTS of threads showing and one has none. Or you have a bent steering knuckle (were the tie rod end attaches) on one side. Compare the space between the knuckle arm and the backing plate on either side.

David T
05-31-2011, 06:00 PM
The order is to center the rack. Now you center the wheels by adjusting the tie rod ends and adjusting the toe to spec. NOW you remove the steering wheel and center the wheel. This is assuming you have all of the correct parts, they are all installed correctly and nothing is bent. Any good alignment shop should know this stuff, it's basic 101 car alignment. There is nothing unusual or weird about the Delorean except the sway bar doubles as a front strut bar to hold the front wheels in position front-to-back.
David Teitelbaum

Chris4099
05-31-2011, 06:08 PM
David,
I have to disagree with this. The alignment shop will typically take the steering wheel and point it straight forward when adjusting toe. It's generally assumed the wheel is centered to the rack. The alignment machine can only adjust toe based on the position of the two wheels, not on actual position of the rack. That's why they assume the wheel is centered to the rack when they point the wheel forward during the alignment.

DMCMW Dave
05-31-2011, 07:35 PM
David,
I have to disagree with this. The alignment shop will typically take the steering wheel and point it straight forward when adjusting toe. It's generally assumed the wheel is centered to the rack. The alignment machine can only adjust toe based on the position of the two wheels, not on actual position of the rack. That's why they assume the wheel is centered to the rack when they point the wheel forward during the alignment.

They assume the car has not been taken apart. Sometimes not the case. ;)

If the shop gets the car in alignment, and the car turns one way shorter than the other, AND the tie rod ends have wildly different amounts of threads showing, the shop is supposed to know that something isn't quite correct yet.

Chris4099
05-31-2011, 07:51 PM
Dave,
True, they SHOULD see that, but once in my case and clearly with the OP's, it doesn't always happen. :mad: Too bad it's so easy to install the column or wheel off center. This seems to happen a lot after people replace a steering component.

David T
05-31-2011, 08:42 PM
The Old-Timers will know to check for centering. On the newer alignment racks the machine tells them to turn from lock-to-lock and then calculates the center. If the steering wheel is off-center after aligning the car the tech is supposed to center the wheel. Not all techs are conscientious and take pride in their work (or even know how to do it right if the machine doesn't tell them!). There is no excuse for sloppy or poor work. If the shop doesn't do a good job or you are not happy with the work then you should not go back. That said EVERY shop is only as good as their worst mechanic on a bad day. On the car we are talking about if they just set the steering wheel straight ahead the wheels would be pointing WAY over and a blind man would have seen it. Try it, turn your steering wheel 1/4 turn and see how far off center they will point!!!!!!! At the very least the shop should make it right at no additional cost assuming there are no bent or broken parts that have to be replaced. The fact that this seems to happen often is only a reflection on the quality of the work, not the way it SHOULD be done.
David Teitelbaum

tyb323
05-31-2011, 09:01 PM
He also said the back was sliding out while he was entering the highway... I'm thinking they just photoshopped leno in the car!

DeloreanJoshQ
05-31-2011, 11:09 PM
Just looked through my photo documentation and found the below photos before changing the tires and sway bar bushings....

Can you see any obvious signs from these pics?


http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/182490_10150396274900696_671145695_17217211_527706 _n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/181591_10150396275055696_671145695_17217214_224879 1_n.jpg

Here are a couple more...

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/184746_10150412295900696_671145695_17424528_652985 8_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/189773_10150412296075696_671145695_17424530_780161 _n.jpg

The thread looks even to me......anyone else?

dmcjohn
06-01-2011, 04:34 AM
Are you sure you have your steering rack retaining plate fitted on the passenger side?

If you don't have this part on your car, maybe your rack has slipped sideways.

I'll have to look under my car later but just looking at the positioning of your steering rack boots - on one side it is fully outside the frame extension, and on the other side some of the boot is within the frame extension - might suggest your rack is not positioned correctly.

John

DeloreanJoshQ
06-01-2011, 08:01 AM
Are you sure you have your steering rack retaining plate fitted on the passenger side?

If you don't have this part on your car, maybe your rack has slipped sideways.

I'll have to look under my car later but just looking at the positioning of your steering rack boots - on one side it is fully outside the frame extension, and on the other side some of the boot is within the frame extension - might suggest your rack is not positioned correctly.

John

I have never touched the steering rack so I don't have any experience as this is my first D.

David T
06-01-2011, 08:09 AM
In one of your posts you said the rack was replaced. It is possible either the rack is not the right one for the car (or not rebuilt right?) or somehow when it was installed it was mispositioned. Something is obviously wrong. You are right in questioning the unequal turning radius.
David Teitelbaum

dmcjohn
06-01-2011, 08:37 AM
Hi Josh,

This is the part I'm suggesting may be missing from your car: Part number 15 at this link:

http://www.delorean.com/store/c-352-5-2-0-steering-rack-assembly.aspx

http://www.delorean.com/store/images/PRODUCT/medium/108148.JPG

It should be sitting between the frame and the passenger side steering rack mount. It prevents the steering rack from moving side to side - so if it was not refitted to your car by the previous owner, your rack may have moved position, hence the difference in steering lock and the visual difference with the steering rack boots.

Hope this helps, best of luck!
John

DeloreanJoshQ
06-01-2011, 07:13 PM
Hi Josh,

This is the part I'm suggesting may be missing from your car: Part number 15 at this link:

http://www.delorean.com/store/c-352-5-2-0-steering-rack-assembly.aspx

http://www.delorean.com/store/images/PRODUCT/medium/108148.JPG

It should be sitting between the frame and the passenger side steering rack mount. It prevents the steering rack from moving side to side - so if it was not refitted to your car by the previous owner, your rack may have moved position, hence the difference in steering lock and the visual difference with the steering rack boots.

Hope this helps, best of luck!
John

Passenger side....does it look like the plate is at the bottom?

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/jaq78/DSC06436.jpg

Driver side....

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p48/jaq78/DSC06449.jpg

I also measured the tire when turned left and right...

At left the outer edge of the tire is roughly at 4 inches from the fender
At right the outer edge of the tire is rougly at 6 inches from the fender

DMCMW Dave
06-01-2011, 07:51 PM
That plate looks correct. Don't worry about measurements to the sheet metal, the sheet metal is all over the place. Measure from the stud on the tie rod end to the brake backing plate on both sides. That should be the same.

Turn the steering wheel all the way to the left. Now turn it all the way to the right and count the turns. You may want to mark it with piece of tape. Now turn it 1/2 the number of turns that you counted. It should he in the position for going straight, that is the "center" of the rack. Something doesn't seem right yet as your tie rod end threads look correct, but the rack is going farther one way than the other.

DeloreanJoshQ
07-05-2011, 12:46 PM
The issue has been resolved to the best of it's ability.

Cliff Schmucker helped me this weekend. The tie rods are evenly spaced when viewed from below, but caused the steering wheel to turn 1 full turn to the left and 1.5 turns to the right. After careful measurements he moved the pass tie rod in all the way which equated to 5.25 turns. He then moved the driverside out 5.25. We then went for a drive and it tracked the same. I stuck a piece of tape on the "true center" of the steering wheel and he pulled the steering wheel off and re-adjusted it.
I can now turn to the right 1.6 turns and to the left 1.4 turns and the steering wheel is straight when driving straight.
It is close enough for it to no longer be an issue for me.
Thanks for all of the help!!

Jonathan
09-25-2013, 08:52 PM
The alignment shop needs to center the rack. This will probably leave your steering wheel aimed the wrong direction when going straight forward. You will then need to pull the wheel off and center that. Then you will probably find it off a little, i.e. 1/2 spline one way or the other. THEN you can center the wheel by tweaking the front end alignment in tiny increments.

What has happened is that someone centered the alignment in favor of the wheel by adjusting the rack, and didn't pay attention to the fact that in one direction the tire is hitting the sway bar and in the other it can't turn far enough.

Old thread, I know, but it's pretty close to what I was wondering about so thought I'd spare us all in making a new one...

I scooted down to the fire department today to ask what their opinions were on car fires and extinguishers. No one there except the receptionist, so that story will continue another day (and in another thread). While parking the car though, I thought I felt/heard the tire rubbing on something. It was when I had the wheel cranked all the way to the left. I had backed up and then was about to pull forward when I got the feeling it was rubbing. I eased off slightly on how far the wheel was turned and then parked it.

When leaving, I tried to turn the wheels all the way and see if it would repeat. I did the same when I got home in my driveway. No rubbing that I could make happen again. I was still on a hard, level surface, and going about the same speed (slow). I found the wheel would turn 1.25 turns to the left (and then end up finishing at 9 o'clock) and it would turn a little under 1.25 turns to the right (and would finish at 2 o'clock). The steering wheel is pretty much centred when the car is facing straight forward, not perfect, but pretty close.

Would I have rubbed on the sway bar as mentioned? Is there something I should be checking out or adjusting? I couldn't get it to do it twice, but it seems like it has done it in the past and I just didn't take much notice of it. Not sure honestly.

I had my steering rack off and the boots replaced/greased and then aligned a few seasons ago, but that's quite a few miles since any of it was take apart in any way. Cause for concern??