Stage III Supercharger Upgrade Thread

[DeloreanJoshQ]

I received a DML email from James Espey. In it he said the Stage III engine upgrade is now available. I couldn't find it on www.delorean.com

I am interested in what all is modified to the engine to make the stage III work.
Also, I am interested in a "kit" version that would be sold to fit and convert my engine to a supercharged setup.

I would have liked to done a turbo set-up but I've already invested in a nice SS exhaust, so now I'm curious in the supercharger setup to increase HP.

Does anyone have any info on this? Dave S? James E?

Thanks!

Josh Q

[Chris Burns]

I received a DML email from James Espey. In it he said the Stage III engine upgrade is now available. I couldn't find it on www.delorean.com

I am interested in what all is modified to the engine to make the stage III work.
Also, I am interested in a "kit" version that would be sold to fit and convert my engine to a supercharged setup.

I would have liked to done a turbo set-up but I've already invested in a nice SS exhaust, so now I'm curious in the supercharger setup to increase HP.

Does anyone have any info on this? Dave S? James E?

Thanks!

Josh Q

I know that they do a Stage 2 1st and then they do a Stage 3. James said it would be about 9k for the upgrade.

[Michael]

I know that they do a Stage 2 1st and then they do a Stage 3. James said it would be about 9k for the upgrade.

I wonder if that's including labor, and if so will it be avaliable as a kit so I will not have to spend 1000.00+ just to ship it off to DMC for who knows how long? I would be really interested in this with winter approaching....would make for a good project.

[opethmike]

I'm quite curious about the details of this upgrade. Do they keep the stage 2 cam shafts in there? Those are ground for naturally aspirated performance, and high breathing cams tend to not play very nice with forced induction.

[Delorean Industries]

Ready to see a price and stipulations on this upgrade being performed so we can better market our alternative.

@Josh Q
I would though love to see a supercharger along with my spec I exhaust!

[nofear365]

I'm dieing to see one in action. Nothing on Youtube yet other than 1 dinky video of the stage 3 pulling away.

[DMC5180]

Do they keep the stage 2 cam shafts in there? Those are ground for naturally aspirated performance, and high breathing cams tend to not play very nice with forced induction.

I had the same question and it was confirmed Stage 3 bolts on top of a complete stage 2 package. It's also my understanding that it has quite High torque at low RPM 1200-1500 But then falls off at High Rpm. Kind of the opposite of typical Stage 2. I'm hoping to get test Drive/ride in the car this spring. I had experienced the prior Blower configuration a several years ago and that one really put you back in the seat. This one should be even better. I would still like to see the Dyno-chart of the car for proof of the claims.

[TheDutchTexan]

^ Doesn't make sense. The stage 2 is a N/A build, and doesn't have a forged bottom-end as far as I know. The cam is a N/A grind, and would hamper any supercharger from breathing right.

I know the stage III can only be called a stage III if it is a natural progression from the stage II. But anyone who knows the basics of supercharging knows that you have to forge your bottom end in order to run a decent amount of "boost" without blowing your engine. DMC already proved that the PRV doesn't handle forced induction too well.

I still wonder if they are going to use a roots / twin screw style or centrifugal supercharger. I am already seeing DPI coming up with a kit that undercuts the DMC one by a fair margin. 9 grand for a supercharger... Even if it includes the stage 2 rebuild, that stage 2 is not purpose built for supercharged applications and thus moot.

[DCUK Martin]

For the record, the rods and crank are plenty strong enough for over 300hp. The original pistons shoud be too, although Renault saw fit to increase primary ring thickness on the forced induction engines.

Cams and ignition timing are another matter entirely.

[thirdmanj]

So, if I understand whats being said. We have confirmed that the Stage III will be a natural progression from Stage II with no needed internal modifications? I understand whats been said about the the natural aspiration has a different set up than superchargers for the forced induction reason. So do we know definetly or not if DMCH has designed arround that known problem. Because IF that is the case, for those of us who already have Stage II this Stage III should fall well below the 9k price tag w/out all the mods having to be performed.

[1batt4u]

I remember from the last thread on Stage III, someone posted that you do not need Stage II to install Stage III. And the last confirmed price was $5.5-$6K

[opethmike]

I remember from the last thread on Stage III, someone posted that you do not need Stage II to install Stage III. And the last confirmed price was $5.5-$6K

Nope. I asked James in a thread on the topic on my Facebook page; the cost is 9k to go from stage 2 to stage 3.

[Iznodmad]

I'm just waiting for someone to pony up and say they have purchased one, or it is getting installed, or something. There has to be someone here with deep pockets that is getting this done. I find it hard to believe there are 3-4 people that have "pre-ordered" the near 6 figure DMCEV and not the roughly $10K S3 upgrade.

[TheDutchTexan]

Ok, that can't be right... I know a DeLorean is no Mustang, but no one in their right mind will pay 9 grand for a supercharger on top of what they already paid for the stage II. Without stage II it's going to be what? 16k? Not to mention you're limited by the drive-train. 9k for an extra ~100hp is a lot of dough.

Guess we'll have to wait and see when all the pricing and info becomes visible on the DeLorean.com website.

And personally, wait till some people are running the setup, and see how the drive-trains holds up. I really wonder about the transmission... And I am willing to bet automatics can forget about stage III altogether. If people start to race them from a dig (or go balls out on the highway in 5th gear) stuff is going to break.

[opethmike]

The 9k quote is directly from James Espey to me, it is right. Good price? No. The price they want? Yes.


Ok, that can't be right... I know a DeLorean is no Mustang, but no one in their right mind will pay 9 grand for a supercharger on top of what they already paid for the stage II. Without stage II it's going to be what? 16k? Not to mention you're limited by the drive-train. 9k for an extra ~100hp is a lot of dough.

Guess we'll have to wait and see when all the pricing and info becomes visible on the DeLorean.com website.

And personally, wait till some people are running the setup, and see how the drive-trains holds up. I really wonder about the transmission... And I am willing to bet automatics can forget about stage III altogether. If people start to race them from a dig (or go balls out on the highway in 5th gear) stuff is going to break.

[thirdmanj]

The 9k quote is directly from James Espey to me, it is right. Good price? No. The price they want? Yes.


I do wish some definitive information would come out on this one way or the other and dispel this useless speculation!

Personally, I would very much like to have the Stage III upgrade provided it doesn't cost 9k to take my Stage II up to III. If that is the case what does it cost to go from stock to Stage III? If it's the same, then I concider my self royally ripped off after already spending the close to 8k for my Stage II.

[1Mcfly4u]

I do wish some definitive information would come out on this one way or the other and dispel this useless speculation!

Personally, I would very much like to have the Stage III upgrade provided it doesn't cost 9k to take my Stage II up to III. If that is the case what does it cost to go from stock to Stage III? If it's the same, then I concider my self royally ripped off after already spending the close to 8k for my Stage II.

I think we're both in the same boat Tait, theres no way I'm dishing out another 9k. As far as the engines go in both cars all of my business is going to DPI from now on. It's funny theres a price for Stage III but no information on what you are really getting with it or how much of your Stage II upgrade gets used.

[Delorean Industries]

I have spoken with a number of you over performance options in the last few days in regards to cost versus gains etc. While I think we are very competitive with what we offer as I have stated I can't say until officially released that we beat out the stage III offering price wise. I can say though that our boosted engine packages have forged internals and are based from the ground up where one isn't added to the other as an upgrade from a NA package we offer. Our NA packages are priced along the Stage II price line and single turbo option is sub 12k installed.

To stay competitive as I have mentioned we are not running a belt drive compressor to compete with DMC and will continue to stick to single and dual turbo's indefinitely with forged internals and mandatory EFI accept for one off belt driven builds upon request.

Owners who have purchased our exhausts, engines or other upgrades have the option to trade in on a prorated bases towards other upgrades as always in the future and we will still build any custom crazy set up you can dream up as well.

[TheDutchTexan]

^ One can only dream of a forged prv6 with a M62 residing on top. Listen to that blower whine!

On-topic: If one wants to play you have to pay. But there is a threshold where people will start walking away. I am all for modifications myself, just as long as they are tastefully done, priced right and when the hood is opened it doesn't look like a hack job.

The prices of DeLoreans @ DeLorean.com have skyrocketed. It almost seems like they are trying to push the little guy out and create a pool of more elite owners with wallets the size of Uranus. I feel it is becoming less and less likely that I will own one down the line. Speaking of which, I need to update my sig... I've lost about half my fund after buying a 4 door for the wife so it is easier for her to haul the baby around.

[DCUK Martin]

Please don't forget little ol' me over this side of the pond. You might be surprised by how much it (doesn't) cost to ship a car over...

http://www.delorean.co.uk/delorean_performance.html

:biggrin:

[nullset]

The prices of DeLoreans @ DeLorean.com have skyrocketed. It almost seems like they are trying to push the little guy out and create a pool of more elite owners with wallets the size of Uranus. I feel it is becoming less and less likely that I will own one down the line. Speaking of which, I need to update my sig... I've lost about half my fund after buying a 4 door for the wife so it is easier for her to haul the baby around.

Just remember, that's not the only place to buy a Delorean. In fact, it's probably the most expensive place to buy one!

--buddy

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Please don't forget little ol' me over this side of the pond. You might be surprised by how much it (doesn't) cost to ship a car over...

http://www.delorean.co.uk/delorean_performance.html

:biggrin:

How much would it cost to ship over your 260HP turbo engine to here in the states?

[DeloreanJoshQ]

I have spoken with a number of you over performance options in the last few days in regards to cost versus gains etc. While I think we are very competitive with what we offer as I have stated I can't say until officially released that we beat out the stage III offering price wise. I can say though that our boosted engine packages have forged internals and are based from the ground up where one isn't added to the other as an upgrade from a NA package we offer. Our NA packages are priced along the Stage II price line and single turbo option is sub 12k installed.

To stay competitive as I have mentioned we are not running a belt drive compressor to compete with DMC and will continue to stick to single and dual turbo's indefinitely with forged internals and mandatory EFI accept for one off belt driven builds upon request.

Owners who have purchased our exhausts, engines or other upgrades have the option to trade in on a prorated bases towards other upgrades as always in the future and we will still build any custom crazy set up you can dream up as well.

I would be interested in upgrading my engine to turbo and efi, and the option to trade in my newly purchased spec 1 exhaust in order to do so would be nice. However, I would like to do alot of the work myself for learning and self-pride purchases....

[opethmike]

I would be interested in upgrading my engine to turbo and efi, and the option to trade in my newly purchased spec 1 exhaust in order to do so would be nice. However, I would like to do alot of the work myself for learning and self-pride purchases....

Plenty of good folks to help you out with EFI around these parts. Owen, Jim, and Dave McKeen got me going nicely!

[1batt4u]

For stage 3, which stock parts will have to be removed/not used anymore??

Also, there is a serpentine pulley and belt used on stage 3. Will and original pulleys have to be replaced, or anything??

Any detail on it, would appreciate it!!

I am in the procedd of working on my engine, I would like to know as much info on stage 3, so I know if I really want it, I can prepare my engine for it!!

Thank you!!

[Manxmann]

As an owner of a previously 'upgraded' car, which I have at great expense returned to stock'ish config (stage ii) I feel I'm qualified to comment.

Any upgrade/swap is only as good as the development work undertaken and the quality of the workmanship employed to implement. If either is lacking the results are nothing short of appalling and over time will only leave a sour taste. I can attest that shortcomings of a poorly developed solution soon overwhelm any benefits from the performance gains achieved.

From what I have read and seen thus far the DMCH stage 3 meets both these pre requisites looking very OEM in its delivery, reports of extended development time and multiple mules lends weight to a feel of a properly developed solution. Not something that can said of all solutions being offered.

[SamHill]

As an owner of a previously 'upgraded' car, which I have at great expense returned to stock'ish config (stage ii) I feel I'm qualified to comment.

Any upgrade/swap is only as good as the development work undertaken and the quality of the workmanship employed to implement. If either is lacking the results are nothing short of appalling and over time will only leave a sour taste. I can attest that shortcomings of a poorly developed solution soon overwhelm any benefits from the performance gains achieved.


What happened?

[DMC5180]

Sounds like a Forced Induction Upgrade gone bad and he opted to step back down to a Stage II type (stock-ish appearing setup).

[Chris Burns]

Pic of the new Stage 3 setup. DMC says it will work fine with the K-Jet system.

[stevedmc]

Pic of the new Stage 3 setup. DMC says it will work fine with the K-Jet system.

Its looks complicated yet beautiful. If I understand correctly, they are supplimenting K-Jet with TBI. I love TBI.

[opethmike]

Its looks complicated yet beautiful. If I understand correctly, they are supplimenting K-Jet with TBI. I love TBI.

Supplimentary injector != TBI.

Its pretty much exactly what Lotus did with the Turbo Esprits of the 80s.

[outatym2001]

IT'S ALIVE!!!
Here are two pictures I took while the super charged PRV V6 engine was running. DMC Northwest is performing this install for the very first paying customer or should I say retail installation.
It’s not me (but I was tempted some time ago until my job ended then I lost interest).

The supercharged D (SuperD) is getting fine tuned and as you can see the original air filter box will not work in this application. A new one is still being fabricated and refabricated and re-refabricated. You can’t hurry perfection.

[Ashyukun]

I got to look over and ride in the vinyl-skinned Stage 3 when I dropped by DMC-H after Christmas (since I was visiting relatives in the area). Was a blast to ride in, and the new vinyl looks pretty good on it. Couldn't do the conversion on mine though without a lot of extra parts and/or re-working, since 16655 is carbureted.

[Chris Burns]

My bud test drove the Stage 3 car at DMC Open House. He said it drove like his Delorean with Island Twin Turbo kit. :thumbup2:

[beech]

Thanks for the picture, Mark. That very fast DeLorean belongs to me. You've seen it more recently that I have! Hope all is well with you.

Brent



IT'S ALIVE!!!
Here are two pictures I took while the super charged PRV V6 engine was running. DMC Northwest is performing this install for the very first paying customer or should I say retail installation.
It’s not me (but I was tempted some time ago until my job ended then I lost interest).

The supercharged D (SuperD) is getting fine tuned and as you can see the original air filter box will not work in this application. A new one is still being fabricated and refabricated and re-refabricated. You can’t hurry perfection.

[1batt4u]

2 things!

1. Is there a serpetine pulley that mounts with the crankshaft pulley?? Have pictures of that set up? Would really love to see it!!

2. Can we please see a HQ video of the car idiling and in action??

Thank you!!! :smile:

[nofear365]

2. Can we please see a HQ video of the car idiling and in action??



I've been asking for that myself! Can't seem to find anything other than this:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVyanTomslY

[beech]

Here's a picture of the "perfect" air filter. I get to pick it up soon! I think I wait for a day reasonably clear of snow and ice, though... I let everyone know if I enjoy it. ;)

7825



IT'S ALIVE!!!
Here are two pictures I took while the super charged PRV V6 engine was running. DMC Northwest is performing this install for the very first paying customer or should I say retail installation.
It’s not me (but I was tempted some time ago until my job ended then I lost interest).

The supercharged D (SuperD) is getting fine tuned and as you can see the original air filter box will not work in this application. A new one is still being fabricated and refabricated and re-refabricated. You can’t hurry perfection.

[vwdmc16]

That does fit nice , I sure dont like how its will pull in just hot air on a non intercooled engine

[Delorean Industries]

That does fit nice , I sure dont like how its will pull in just hot air on a non intercooled engine

Something tells me this could end up being a problem.

[beech]

Just drove it home for the first time. Can't stop smiling. Wow! Way to go, Toby and DMC Northwest. Way to go DMC Houston! Runs like a champ, sounds like a champ, and finally, finally, behaves like a champ!

[opethmike]

Congrats, enjoy! Is the supercharger pretty audible?

[beech]

Thanks Mike. Yes, you can hear it for sure - but it is solid sounding and certainly not obnoxiously loud.


Congrats, enjoy! Is the supercharger pretty audible?

[opethmike]

Cool, I love the whine of a supercharger. I think we would all love to see some videos of your car, if you please.

[1batt4u]

Yes, woud love to see a video!!!

[spinaltap1]

Hi guys,
I'm just wondering what type of horsepower is involved with the Stage III upgrade.
Around 300?
Thanks.

[Michael]

Hi guys,
I'm just wondering what type of horsepower is involved with the Stage III upgrade.
Around 300?
Thanks.

No not quite. I remember reading in the 230-240 range...which would suit me just fine.

[DMC5180]

Look Here for details:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2530-Stage-I-II-and-III-details-and-pricing&p=33984&viewfull=1#post33984

[beech]

I'll put up a video shortly. I'm moving houses right now and I've got a ten month old daughter, so I'm lucky my wife let me go pick up the car! I'll try to do it this weekend, if I get a moment.

[outatym2001]

Thanks for the picture, Mark. That very fast DeLorean belongs to me. You've seen it more recently that I have! Hope all is well with you.

Brent
Brent thanks for posting. I’m sure there will be many questions on long term reliability and costs.
Yeah, haven’t seen you in like a long time. I only attend the Pacific Northwest DeLorean Club tech sessions in order to maintain my daily driver DeLorean. Got a new full time temporay job which I started four months ago. So the good news is I’m working but it’s only temporary.


2 things!

1. Is there a serpentine pulley that mounts with the crankshaft pulley?? Have pictures of that set up? Would really love to see it!!

2. Can we please see a HQ video of the car idling and in action??

Thank you!!! :smile:
Pictures below have text showing the location of the black pulley tension wheel directly below the Supercharger silver pulley wheel.
From what I was told the new aluminum crank shaft pulley wheel is bonded to the original steel pulley wheel and then the original crank nut is installed with an air impact wrench.
The metal key holding the original pulley wheel to the crank shaft is not utilized on the new aluminum pulley wheel. That’s the reason for bonding the two.
There is just enough muffler clearance when using the 2011 version of the Stage II exhaust system by www.delorean.com.
That exhaust system looks SSSOOOooo good but it’s a bit louder than I prefer to have in my DeLorean which is a daily driver. A plus is it’s entirely made of stainless steel.

I took a video with my digital camera of the start up and idling and revving of the SuperD. Don’t have any video of it actually moving. Toby Peterson of DMC NW started it while I stood behind the SuperD. The video is 78 MB and is one minute seven seconds long. I have never attempted at posting videos online so I don’t know the process. I will try either ww.streetfire.net or www.youtube.com or ???

Other pictures available at the facebook page of Toby Peterson. In order to view the pictures you have to be a current member.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Toby-Peterson/1555757543

[dvonk]

Just drove it home for the first time. Can't stop smiling. Wow! Way to go, Toby and DMC Northwest. Way to go DMC Houston! Runs like a champ, sounds like a champ, and finally, finally, behaves like a champ!

congratulations, Brent, it sounds awesome! do you mind sharing the VIN of the lucky first Super-D for the history books? :smile:

[outatym2001]

Hey Brent I just thought of this. You need to get a personalized Washington State license plate that says SUPER D. With a small space in between the letters SUPER and the D. I know you have to pay an additional $32.00 fee every year for personalized plates but shoot it goes to a good cause the Department of Fish and Wildlife.

[beech]

Not at all. 892. Early 81. Sibling of Claude's - they must have been sitting on the dock together, chatting, 30 years ago...



congratulations, Brent, it sounds awesome! do you mind sharing the VIN of the lucky first Super-D for the history books? :smile:

[beech]

Hi Mark - I promise I'll think about it! It's a good idea. It may have to be "Hartford", after it's benefactor:

http://www.builderscounsel.com/2011/06/insurer-beware-failure-to-defend-ends-with-hefty-verdict/


Hey Brent I just thought of this. You need to get a personalized Washington State license plate that says SUPER D. With a small space in between the letters SUPER and the D. I know you have to pay an additional $32.00 fee every year for personalized plates but shoot it goes to a good cause the Department of Fish and Wildlife.

[Farrar]

Hey Mark,

No matter how big the video file is, YouTube will automatically compress it into a format which will not take long to load on viewing. I have uploaded files in excess of 1GB to YouTube before -- it will take a long time, so you can just hit "start uploading" and take a coffee break, but the result will still be good. Another good site for uploading videos is Vimeo.com -- their videos sometimes take less time to load than YouTube's, and the default viewing quality is also very good, in my opinion.

Congratulations again!

[outatym2001]

So, I finally uploaded my video to www.streetfire.net
Yeah, it’s pretty boring to watch a SUPERCHARGED DeLorean start up and idle and rev it’s engine for one minute and eight seconds but this is it so far. The whole registering and upload process was easy but during the actual upload I walked away from the computer since it takes a long time to upload a 91MB file.
The owner of DMC Northwest, Toby Peterson, started the engine while I took the video.

DeLorean Supercharged with Stage III
http://www.streetfire.net/video/delorean-supercharged-with-stage-iii_2367591.htm

[Chris Burns]

Great video man! :popcorn:

Sounds like a mean Delorean.

[DMC5180]

It does have a Nice Sound to it. Can't wait to hopefully experience the Prototype at DMCMW this spring. Heard it might be on an Affiliate Tour in Spring.

[DMC5180]

Beech,

Definitely have fun with it, thats what its for.

I would however, be interested in knowing what the MPG will be under (normal highway) (65-75) cruising conditions. Perhaps over a nice long 250-300 mile fill up to fill up. I average 28 to 30.5 (Mod. Stage I) in summertime (depending on outside air temp). Just curious to see how much loss you'll experience with the blower.

[DniveK]

I test drove one at DMC Houston last week, lots of power. Overall I was really impressed with what DMC accomplished. I hope they will sell enough of them to get their R&D money back out of it. There is nothing like the power from a super charger, but they sure are loud. The high pitch whine in your ear when that super charger spines up will drive you batey if you drive balls out all the time. That being said, you could always insulate the fire wall a bit more to supress the sound better. I think its well worth the money for the added fun it brings to the car. I suggest everyone thinking about it go to DMC and test one out.

[beech]

I'm curious about that, too. I'll see if I have the self control to drive it conservatively for an entire tank... I'll report back.

Brent


Beech,

Definitely have fun with it, thats what its for.

I would however, be interested in knowing what the MPG will be under (normal highway) (65-75) cruising conditions. Perhaps over a nice long 250-300 mile fill up to fill up. I average 28 to 30.5 (Mod. Stage I) in summertime (depending on outside air temp). Just curious to see how much loss you'll experience with the blower.

[opethmike]

I'm curious about that, too. I'll see if I have the self control to drive it conservatively for an entire tank... I'll report back.

Brent

Yeah, good luck with that! :)

[DSNW Toby]

Something tells me this could end up being a problem.

The DMC Stage III comes with a very sophisticated ECU (with custom code written specifically for this application) that works with the other electronics in the car to maintain excellent control over everything (ignition timing, lambda system, engine idle). Try as I did, I could not get any predetonation at all during the drives in Houston. The ambient temperatures were in the mid 90's, and I flogged the crap out of the car on the track and the street. As a matter of fact, I could not get any complaining at all out of the car. No issues.

[DMC5180]

I hope they will sell enough of them to get their R&D money back out of it. There is nothing like the power from a super charger, but they sure are loud. The high pitch whine in your ear when that super charger spines up will drive you batey if you drive balls out all the time. That being said, you could always insulate the fire wall a bit more to supress the sound better. I think its well worth the money for the added fun it brings to the car. I suggest everyone thinking about it go to DMC and test one out.

The HIGH take up of Stage I/II. helped subsidize the Years of development that went into the final Product. If it weren't for that, the ROI would take a lot of these being sold. IIRC there were at least 3 other variations of prototypes developed through the years.

[DMC5180]

The DMC Stage III comes with a very sophisticated ECU (with custom code written specifically for this application) that works with the other electronics in the car to maintain excellent control over everything (ignition timing, lambda system, engine idle). Try as I did, I could not get any predetonation at all during the drives in Houston. The ambient temperatures were in the mid 90's, and I flogged the crap out of the car on the track and the street. As a matter of fact, I could not get any complaining at all out of the car. No issues.

Does this mean the sock Idle ECU goes away or is By-passed.

[spinaltap1]

Any idea why the boys at DMC opted for a supercharger?
I would have thought that they'd try to emulate the twin turbo PRV-6s built by Legend Industries back in the day.

[DMC5180]

Any idea why the boys at DMC opted for a supercharger?
I would have thought that they'd try to emulate the twin turbo PRV-6s built by Legend Industries back in the day.

Edd Uding at DMCEU is attempting to replicate the Legend setup. As for why DMCH didn't, I believe COST was the biggest factor along with internal work required. This Blower setup does not require new forged Pistons. It is literally an external bolt-on kit for existing stage II cars.

The existing turbo kits used over the years have been limited to about 200HP due to detonation issues. I suppose with the use of modern fuel and spark management that figure could be raised. Frankly, I'm impressed they were able to get what they did out it. Precise fuel and spark control made the difference.

[opethmike]

Edd Uding at DMCEU is attempting to replicate the Legend setup. As for why DMCH didn't, I believe COST was the biggest factor along with internal work required. This Blower setup does not require new forged Pistons. It is literally an external bolt-on kit for existing stage II cars.

The existing turbo kits used over the years have been limited to about 200HP due to detonation issues. I suppose with the use of modern fuel and spark management that figure could be raised. Frankly, I'm impressed they were able to get what they did out it. Precise fuel and spark control made the difference.

Supercharger/turbo charger doesn't matter; its the boost level that matters. This charger runs 5 PSI. They could have run 5 PSI through a turbo. So, they could have gone turbo(s) without requiring forged internals either.

[DMC5180]

Agreed

The question was why didn't DMCH emulate the Legend setup. Which was supposedly around 280-300 hp. That setup required Forged internals and lowered Compression ratio to get the Boost.

[spinaltap1]

Cool.
Thanks for the info fellas.

[AdmiralSenn]

From my (admittedly shadetree) understanding of how forced induction works, 5 psi on a supercharger nets far better off the line performance than 5 psi from a turbo.

Superchargers start making boost very early, turbos don't really spool until higher rpms (unless they're sized and tuned to spool earlier, and then you typically lose high end flow).

Roughly the same power increase, but it kicks in at different times. From the turbo vehicles I've driven, the power is more of a frenetic, higher RPM kick than just "more power". (Granted the last turbo car I drove was a drifting-built monster, but even so.)

The other side of this (and probably far closer to the mark) is that they can still offer Stage 1 and 2 kits with a supercharger without having to design yet another set of exhaust manifolds. Better branding and less R&D money wasted.

[DMC5180]

The other side of this (and probably far closer to the mark) is that they can still offer Stage 1 and 2 kits with a supercharger without having to design yet another set of exhaust manifolds. Better branding and less R&D money wasted.

I forgot about that reason. The Stages are simply performance stepping stones. It was designed to compliment the previous work. What is now a Stage II today was the original performance development program. They just split it up to create the I and II

I also know that Stephen has played with turbos back in the days of D1 and has had to deal with them from customer cars. He is not a fan.

[DSNW Toby]

Does this mean the sock Idle ECU goes away or is By-passed.

The new Stage III control ECU obtains a signal from the DeLorean idle ECU for use in its control over the ignition ECU. It also uses signals from the Lambda ECU as guidance in controlling the auxiliary injector. The idle and lambda ECU's function more or less as normal, while the ignition ECU is intercepted and controlled when the MAP sensor detects a boosted condition. If I told you anymore, I'd have to ... well ... you know ...

[DSNW Toby]

From my (admittedly shadetree) understanding of how forced induction works, 5 psi on a supercharger nets far better off the line performance than 5 psi from a turbo.

Superchargers start making boost very early, turbos don't really spool until higher rpms (unless they're sized and tuned to spool earlier, and then you typically lose high end flow).

Roughly the same power increase, but it kicks in at different times. From the turbo vehicles I've driven, the power is more of a frenetic, higher RPM kick than just "more power". (Granted the last turbo car I drove was a drifting-built monster, but even so.)

The other side of this (and probably far closer to the mark) is that they can still offer Stage 1 and 2 kits with a supercharger without having to design yet another set of exhaust manifolds. Better branding and less R&D money wasted.

The supercharger makes boost from just off idle, and therefore enhances torque from a lower RPM. As noted above, a turbo does its thing at a much higher RPM. For a turbo, the exhaust system is very restrictive until you transition into boost once it spools up. Once you overcome the restrictions with forced induction, then it doesn't really matter. However, with a supercharger you have a free flowing exhaust system at all times. In the DMC setup, the blower is also bypassed at idle so you have a decent naturally aspirated engine until you nudge off-idle and start to develop boost.

The "magic" of the Stage III system is not the horsepower yield. It's the available torque produced throughout a broad RPM range. This thing just doesn't stop pulling.

Turbos make and retain lots of heat, their lubrication oil cokes up, they have bearing wear while spooling down after engine shut-off from loss of engine oil pressure ... I have a tough time saying anything good about turbos. However, that's just me ...

[DMCMW Dave]

I have a tough time saying anything good about turbos. However, that's just me ...

no, it's not just you..

[Delorean Industries]

I would love to know what you guys dislike in regards to turbochargers. I have a feeling that your opinions and dislikes are heavly weighted towards experiences with BAE, one off customs and island kits utilizing stock prv gaskets and fuel systems. Point being: apply modern technology such as sealers, internals and efficient oil and water cooled turbochargers and reliability is not an issue.

[DMC5180]

The new Stage III control ECU obtains a signal from the DeLorean idle ECU for use in its control over the ignition ECU. It also uses signals from the Lambda ECU as guidance in controlling the auxiliary injector. The idle and lambda ECU's function more or less as normal, while the ignition ECU is intercepted and controlled when the MAP sensor detects a boosted condition. If I told you anymore, I'd have to ... well ... you know ...

Toby, Thanks for the explanation. I'll be sure to :umm: before crossing a street. :biggrin:

[spinaltap1]

I have a couple of questions fellas.
Why could the original delorean engine set up not achieve performance levels seen with the modern Stage 2. I am aware of the strict emissions standards back in the eighties that strangled the engine of horsepower but I can't see why, with a little tweaking, a Stage 2 setup was not obtainable.
Secondly, why was the suspension of the original car altered so dramatically.
Thanks.

[outatym2001]

Seems strange to me I should be posting this when other people have more interest in this than I do. It’s most likely they are very busy and I don’t have a life so I have the free time to read and post this information for y’all.
From DMC Help.

http://www.dmchelp.com/content.php?123-Stage-I-II-and-III-pricing-and-details

Stage I, II and III pricing and details
by
DMCH Stephen
Published on 12-13-2011 05:45 PM
Stage I (parts only) - New stainless muffler, catalytic converters, headers, heatshield, DMC etched exhaust tips and brackets. Also includes fresh air intake, lambda sensor, ignition coil and K&N air filter. Hardware kit includes nuts, bolts, washers, exhaust mounts, exhaust manifold gaskets, flange gaskets and studs. $2149.00

Stage I (installed) All of the above, installed for $2695.00

------------------------------

Stage II (installed only) - All the items listed in Stage I, plus: Bosch silver tip spark plugs, sparkplug wire set, distributor cap and rotor, ported and polished heads (combustion chamber matched), camshafts with Stage II spec profile, 6 new injectors with seals. Parts replaced as part of the install process also include rocker cover gaskets, cylinder head gaskets, timing cover gasket and seals, intake o-rings and manifold gaskets, water pump bypass and heater hoses.

Installed price $5750

------------------------------

Many people got the chance to drive the Stage III at the track during the DMC Open House this past October, and it's now available for installation.

Performance numbers are an estimated 233hp and 230ft lbs of torque at the flywheel (based on the generally accepted 32% transmission/tire loss for horsepower and 20% loss of torque). Over three runs; one on a 90degree day and two the following morning with the temp in the mid-upper 70s, the max horsepower at the wheels was 157.53 and torque of 184.48. The low numbers on the 90 degree day were 153.97hp and 179.64 ft. lb.

Stage III (installed) - All the items listed for Stage I and Stage II, plus: Sprintex supercharger, crankshaft pulley, belt and tensioner, ECU and wiring harness, fuel enrichment add-on and all necessary ducting and plumbing.

Stage I to III - Includes Stage II and Stage III components - $11,495 (installed)

Stage II to III - Includes Stage III components - $8,695.00 (installed)

Pre-2011 Stage I and II installations may require redesigned muffler at additional cost ($279).

Any questions, please contact me directly at [email protected]

Regards,

Stephen Wynne

------------------------------------
DeLorean Motor Company
15023 Eddie Drive
Humble, Texas 77396 USA
Tel: 800/872-3621 (USA only)
Tel2: +1-281/441-2537
Fax: +1-281/441-2813
http://www.delorean.com
http://www.facebook.com/deloreanmotorcompany
------------------------------------
This article was originally published in forum thread: Stage I, II and III pricing and details started by DMCH Stephen View original post

[DMC5180]

Mark, That info has been posted previously in "Vendor news and notes"

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2530-Stage-I-II-and-III-details-and-pricing

[outatym2001]

Mark, That info has been posted previously in "Vendor news and notes"

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2530-Stage-I-II-and-III-details-and-pricing

Oops. Yeah that’s the problem with so many different threads and categories going on. I never check the “Vendor News and Notes” cuz new things come up so rarely that I always forget about that section of DMC Talk. And when new things do get introduced it usually takes a lot of months (years) to actually see something physical you can buy.

[dmcpom]

while the super charger is good in its own right it uses engine power to make power ,A turbo uses wasted energy a well set up turbo with/without a bag (heat insulator around the turbine housing ) will give good response off the line and top end with a compromise in each depending what your after top end /down low or all round , , water cooled turbos will allow the heat to disipate better so as not to burn up the oil/carbon up the turbo drain and really if its turbo or super charger it should be driven conservative before shut off not like a demon .:angry_whip: