Eagle Premier Starter

[congerz83]

Has anyone upgraded to the Eagle Premier starter? I'd like to do this because my stater is starting to go, and I would like to have a stater that actually sounds like it belongs on a car and not a ride-on mower.'

If anyone has upgraded, what did you do? Just a simple swap? Did you like the results?

I spoke with DPI Josh about this earlier, but I thought why not put this before everyone so we can have this topic on the site for others to find later...

[Ozzie]

Yup, on my last project, a starter change/upgrade was one of those 'while you're in there' jobs. See pic below, OEM and 1990 Eagle Premier (Dodge Monaco) side by side; that wire with the pin socket was the only mod, otherwise it blots right in.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6665&d=1320715390

Differences:
1) Smaller and lighter.
2) On a lower voltage battery the stock (original 29 year old) starter would crank a few times before it would catch. This newer one is much more robust on a lower weaker battery, and makes the engine fire up right away on a well charged battery.
3) Sounds cooler too, the original sort of sounds like a coffee grinder, this was has a modern "FHZZZZZT"-like sound - but again you'll only hear that on a weak battery condition.
4) I think it has less torque, but spins faster than the OEM, which is the difference in sounds.
5) Two words: Lifetime warranty. Rebuilds seem to have an iffy history with the Autozone and such, but so far so good.

Installation: I had the (Stage I) headers out, so it was super easy to put in, otherwise it would have been very challenging to remove/replace. I don't think a stock setup would be as challenging, but am not sure. If I do ever have to replace this (or "when"), I'm hoping the smaller size will allow me to do so, without removing the headers.




EDIT:
Someone please verify the hook up of the wire/pin extension above. I am fairly certain that is how it went in, but it would be good to have a second verification or correction.

EDIT 2:
Dang. I should have put me smirking, in 3/4 of the picture above.

EDIT 3:
For those reading in the future: Edit 2 was sarcasm based on recent events here at the forum.

[congerz83]

I don't thnk I'd be able to find one of those pin fittings at Home Depot..... hmmmm.

[Ozzie]

I don't thnk I'd be able to find one of those pin fittings at Home Depot..... hmmmm.

You can cannibalize it from the OEM starter (as a soldered splice with heat shrink tubing), or go to Radio Shack and get a new one.

[uhhair]

We have upgraded to the starter. It is a higher-pitched sound, but it definitely catches quicker than the old one did, and it's given us no issues since replacing it. It bolts right on, it's available from the major vendors, and the price is pretty reasonable. Unless you really have issues with your car staying all original, I'd definitely recommend doing it.

[TTait]

We have upgraded to the starter. It is a higher-pitched sound, but it definitely catches quicker than the old one did, and it's given us no issues since replacing it. It bolts right on, it's available from the major vendors, and the price is pretty reasonable. Unless you really have issues with your car staying all original, I'd definitely recommend doing it.

+1 Have one on my car - working great for 4+ years. Picked up another one for my wife's car a few years later but have not gotten around to installing it yet. You can also pick up that connector (its called a bullet connector in these parts) at any car stereo installation shop - they may give it to you free, if not give them $2 for two of them in case you don't crimp the first one on to your liking.

I think the one I got actually has and draws more power than oem, but it likely draws less power than a 30 year old one unless your solenoid has been rebuilt.

[AdmiralSenn]

I upgraded when mine died.

It sounds cooler, weighs less, is easier to find and WAY easier to install, and is the same price or less as an OEM unit. Really no reason NOT to do it, in my opinion.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Interesting that mine has the starter solenoid rotated 180 deg from Ozzie's photo. So my small wire terminal is beside the engine block. I just jumpered the white/red and blue/yellow wires together to keep the start resistor bypass working. I would think using the starter power wire would short circuit that resistor bypass but it looks like people have it working that way.

Edit:
Just remembered about the starter bypass relay not shown on the schmeatic. So using the starter power wire will work.

[congerz83]

I just had my car on a lift for about 5 minutes. Can the starter be removed with conventional hand-tools? It looks like the bolts are hard to access. Do I need a really long extension?

[congerz83]

The service book says I can unbolt from the front?

[dmc6960]

Yes, front, of the car. You'll need a decent sized extension to reach through the engine cradle, but its only 3 bolts to undue, then of course the 12v leads.

[Byrne H&A]

Hello All,
Today we replaced an OEM starter with Autozone starter #16550 that is the same size as the OEM. The only diffferance is this particular starter has two ground screws and an extra solinoid connection not on the OEM starter. Simply eliminating the two ground screws and disregarding the extra connection, the starter is the same as OEM. The engine started on the first crank. Call if you wish. Byrne (770-536-2410)

[Spittybug]

Good to know Byrne, thanks for sharing that with us.

[congerz83]

Is there any reason to hang on to the OEM starter? Or should I get my $30 core charge back?

[sean]

Is there any reason to hang on to the OEM starter? Or should I get my $30 core charge back?

I would see if one of the DMC vendors or Hervey would give you the same amount or more for it, try to keep it in the community.

[congerz83]

I had disconnected the old starter, hooked up the new one, left it hanging, turned the key, and I could hear it spinning. So I got back under the car to finish tightening down connections. Dummy that I am, I forgot to disconnect the battery. I made accidental contact with the two terminals on the top of the solenoid and zapped myself just a bit. Now nothing happens.

I checked all fuses and swaped the starter relay. Then I turn the key, the infamous "clicking" from the relay panel is still heard. It seems to be coming from the lower ZILLA box in the picture below...

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/congerz83/450cb928.jpg


I thought I may've destroyed the starter, but even when I hook the old one up, no go...

Do I have these connections right? The three red to the top post... nothing but the starters own yellow wire on the bottom? The two little white ones between the two posts to the right? I need to get this thing running. Neither starter runs when hooked up to 12V... the gear pops out... but does not spin...I can't imagine both starters die at once... I need to get this thing running. It's my only transportation right now...

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/congerz83/d960b739.jpg

[Bitsyncmaster]

If the gear pops out you must have a bad connection, probably ground. Make sure it's bolted tight to the engine.

[congerz83]

If the gear pops out you must have a bad connection, probably ground. Make sure it's bolted tight to the engine.

Dumbass question of the day... It needs to be bolted? I just got it to spin by putting both positive on the little terminal and the lower. Could I have gotten the wiring upside down? I don't think so because if I put what I think is the top wire on the bottom, it's going to be constant 12V which is no good.

Would the tight bolting matter if I can get it to spin off the battery?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dumbass question of the day... It needs to be bolted? I just got it to spin by putting both positive on the little terminal and the lower. Could I have gotten the wiring upside down? I don't think so because if I put what I think is the top wire on the bottom, it's going to be constant 12V which is no good.

Would the tight bolting matter if I can get it to spin off the battery?

Yes it needs to be grounded (bolted to block) to run. Your battery wires only feed the +12 volts. You also need to have all the 12 volt wires on.

[congerz83]

Yes it needs to be grounded (bolted to block) to run.

Ok... I'll try that, but did the connections look good?

[congerz83]

You need to have all the 12 volt wires on.

The three red, right?

[Bitsyncmaster]

The three red, right?

I had to log onto an external internet to see your photo. The three red wires look corect but what are those blue wires?

[Bitsyncmaster]

No wires should be attched to the terminals that have the copper jumper.

[congerz83]

:banghead: Bolted to block, starts right up! I should be beaten with a bat.

[sean]

:banghead: Bolted to block, starts right up! I should be beaten with a bat.

Naw, but I bet there are at least two thing you'll remember from this, one shocking and the other not so much :D

[Bitsyncmaster]

Naw, but I bet there are at least two thing you'll remember from this, one shocking and the other not so much :D

I can see how you forgot to disconnect the battery after your test. But we have to be very carfull to remember that when working on the starter or alternator. Not only the large red wires go directly to the battery but the white/red wire on the starter is not fused.

Glad you did not do any damage.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

VIN 3307 is now equipped with the Eagle starter and another happy Delorean owner joins the club.

I started experiencing having to turn the key several times before the starter would turn over and all of my grounds and power connections were good. I believe the original 30 year old starter and the heat from the DPI header very close by played a factor in the malfunction.

Definitely a big difference in size and weight.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/v/862116_10152600995110696_1239207310_n.jpg?oh=69201 f3856e93f70acc0c0a8f2c7e74a&oe=5139D49E&__gda__=1362800822_0a0143a4d497cb85cd8d88c7330869a 8

Here is where the starter mounts. The block protector plate is in position with the spacer/dowel alignment pin on the far right hole to keep everything lined up correctly:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/v/804348_10152600987315696_375834343_n.jpg?oh=236570 6df3d147e811a8d055f3d41d45&oe=513A61AD&__gda__=1362783629_5e8eb14624419d27e4277dca8a93d4f f

Heat shield wrap installed just for insurance so that the new starter will last longer with the hot header nearby...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/v/862431_10152601011290696_1722204706_n.jpg?oh=0754f e00c6813b1737afe3a1378125bf&oe=513A6BAB&__gda__=1362804803_b2d2402227cd14a5a9cbf553af31c5b 1

Wiring: Both large reds and bundle of browns go to the main post. The two small leads go to the small post. I made new weather-tight ring connectors to go on the starter and a new bullet connector to connect to the existing wiring harness. I also cleaned the connectors and made sure nothing touched that shouldn't.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/v/862651_10152601126065696_565944912_n.jpg?oh=e5fcda 77207824b334497c4014e01d8e&oe=513A1097&__gda__=1362785381_5c4e16b5ee8f8dc867dfd2361ede8e4 e

Completed installation. The DPI header had to be removed in order to replace the starter. Heat shield wrap shown:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/v/862488_10152607421790696_1179275631_n.jpg?oh=e9e17 25a53d947ea60203036b488c129&oe=513A65EC&__gda__=1362811716_59804942eed3c4ac5ccd1325a421de3 6

I'll add a link to the video I created showing the starting comparison between the original Paris Rhone and the Eagle starter. The Eagle starter definitely sounds and spins better!

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Video comparison of both starters sound and speed:

http://youtu.be/7liiaWz9d6s


http://youtu.be/7liiaWz9d6s

[Nicholas R]

Nice job! Man those definitely have different performance. That eagle one sounds like a mini jet engine winding up, haha! Just out of curiosity, why in the video does it look like your exhaust is glowing red?

[sdg3205]

What's the weight difference josh? Never hurts to shed a few!

[DeloreanJoshQ]

Nice job! Man those definitely have different performance. That eagle one sounds like a mini jet engine winding up, haha! Just out of curiosity, why in the video does it look like your exhaust is glowing red? I believe you are referring to the cat converter. The engine was dead cold for both segments. The stainless is bluish with that orange color due to heat and time. Not normal?

[DeloreanJoshQ]

What's the weight difference josh? Never hurts to shed a few!
I didn't weigh them but would guess 10 lbs. difference. Someone else might be able to chime in.

[BABIS]

I didn't weigh them but would guess 10 lbs. difference. Someone else might be able to chime in.

very nice work, well done! ;) do you have any reference number for this starter?

[DeloreanJoshQ]

very nice work, well done! ;) do you have any reference number for this starter?

16894 is the Advance Auto Parts #. I had a $20 off and free shipping promo code to ship to my door.

[sdg3205]

Does the factory asbestos heat shield get re-used for the premiere starter?

[DMCMW Dave]

Does the factory asbestos heat shield get re-used for the premiere starter?

Normally you don't remove that unless doing the exhaust. I'd recommend leaving it, or the SS replacement, in place.

[sdg3205]

Normally you don't remove that unless doing the exhaust. I'd recommend leaving it, or the SS replacement, in place.

Hey Dave,

Yes, I'm installing headers. Does that negate the use of the shield?

[DMCMW Dave]

I'd reinstall it if you can.

[PJ Grady Inc.]

I didn't weigh them but would guess 10 lbs. difference. Someone else might be able to chime in.

Great guess. NOS just under 16 lb's. Premier...a hair over 8 lb's. Colin Chapman would love that starter!
Rob

[Rich_NYS]

What's the consensus on the OEM "core?"

[Lou and "Boo"]

I really like that starter. The weight difference and the sound it makes too. Thing is, my oem starter works fine so I don't need to replace it ... yet.

[Ron]

What's the consensus on the OEM "core?"Unlike the alternators, the OEM starters are good units (cheap/easy to rebuild). If one isn't toast, it makes an excellent backup (and you can eventually sell it to one of those purists you keep hearing about ;-)

[Rich_NYS]

Unlike the alternators, the OEM starters are good units (cheap/easy to rebuild). If one isn't toast, it makes an excellent backup (and you can eventually sell it to one of those purists you keep hearing about ;-)

It works, but since I have it off I think I'll replace it.

Between the car, the tools I've been buying, a spare engine, and all the stuff [like this starter] I'm shelving......I'm going to need a bigger garage.

[Lou and "Boo"]

..I'm going to need a bigger garage.

But of course!
:hihi:

[Ron]

It works, but since I have it off I think I'll replace it.

Between the car, the tools I've been buying, a spare engine, and all the stuff [like this starter] I'm shelving......I'm going to need a bigger garage.:hysterical: ...got a wish list?

[oneroyal]

Is there reason for any concern when switching to the Eagle starter with regard to the number of teeth on the gear? (The OEM Paris Rhome starter has 9 teeth and the Eagle starter has 10 teeth.)

[DMCMW Dave]

Is there reason for any concern when switching to the Eagle starter with regard to the number of teeth on the gear? (The OEM Paris Rhome starter has 9 teeth and the Eagle starter has 10 teeth.)

Hasn't proven to be an issue, the teeth are the same size.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Is there reason for any concern when switching to the Eagle starter with regard to the number of teeth on the gear? (The OEM Paris Rhome starter has 9 teeth and the Eagle starter has 10 teeth.)

It would just make the starting RPM 10% higher. I have had the Eagle starter for many years with no problems. I even ran a current test way back when I installed it. Think it was drawing about 150 amps.

[Chris 16409]

I installed my eagle starter back in August of 2012. In October of 2015 (Day after Back to the Future Day), I went to start my car and i would get just the solenoid clicking. After a few turns the car started. The issue would come and go. On several occasions, I would have to take a hammer to the starter, and give it a whack. Earlier this week, it finally died. I couldn't get the starter to engage anymore. Since I bought it at AutoZone, they replaced it under their Lifetime Warranty policy. It tested bad, and I got a replacement the next day. I even got a small refund because the cost of the starter had decreased since the time I had originally boughten it. I just hope AutoZone keeps this part in their innovatory system. I can't imagine there are many Eagle Premiers or Dodge Monacos running around anymore.

[Drive Stainless]

Chris it's hard to beat Autozone's warranty. Even if the part lasts only three years, it provides peace of mind knowing that one small part of the car now costs less to enjoy.

I offer my upper mounting bracket as an easy way to convert to Autozone's lifetime-guaranteed alternator, but it seems like most owners don't see the value. One example from an eBay buyer:

"I like your product but it is difficult to spend $50 on something that is not currently broke on a car I almost never drive."

Maybe we would drive these cars more often if more components were backed by a lifetime warranty? Catch-22!

[Andrew]

I've had various starter problems over the years, most often the phantom solenoid click. However I recently fully resolved this issue on 5052's starter by disassembling the solenoid, cleaning the contacts with a dremel tool and greasing the armature assembly. This solved the problem 100%! The entire process took less than an hour :-)

[Ryan King]

Chris it's hard to beat Autozone's warranty. Even if the part lasts only three years, it provides peace of mind knowing that one small part of the car now costs less to enjoy.

I offer my upper mounting bracket as an easy way to convert to Autozone's lifetime-guaranteed alternator, but it seems like most owners don't see the value. One example from an eBay buyer:

"I like your product but it is difficult to spend $50 on something that is not currently broke on a car I almost never drive."

Maybe we would drive these cars more often if more components were backed by a lifetime warranty? Catch-22!

I love your bracket. Makes replacing the Alternator THAT much easier. Also a better ground to the engine. Thanks for an awesome product!

[TTait]

FYI - was just shopping around for a starter, found my best deal here:

https://www.starterpros.com/PartDetails.aspx?OS1=Y&IDNum=8234

$75 shipped. It will be a week or two before I can put it in, If there are any problems I'll let you know.

[Dontilgon]

Whats the results?

[n_tensetuning]

Just finished installing the Eagle Premier Starter. It seems the only way I can crank/start the car is with all the wires ALL on the Large/Main Stud on top (including the 2 smaller terminal wires).
The only problem is the charging voltage goes haywire on my cluster so I imagine I have one small wire that should be bolted elsewhere?

I had the stock Paris Rhone Starter with all original wiring before and no problems.

Tried running the bullet head terminal wire (as shown in this pic below from fellow member) to the lower larger stud that goes from starter solenoid to starter motor, and leaving the white and red wire hooked up with all the other wiring on large post and the car wouldn't crank this way either.
Thoughts?
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6665&d=1320715390
From what I understand the Eagle Premier starter has this smaller post, but it's a ground post...no wires to connect to it? Tried putting the 2 small wires there and that wouldn't make the car start either.

Anyone running the Eagle Premier starter with Headers/aftermarket exhaust?
I'm running the headers/no cat stainless steel UK exhaust from www.stainless-exhaust.com (amazing sound)
Unfortunately the starter wiring is really close to the header using this starter..... the only way I see to be really safe would be to cut off the small terminal/ground so I could rotate all the wiring away.

Look forward to your help and comments.
Thanks
Dave M

[Giamanut]

We have upgraded to the starter. It is a higher-pitched sound, but it definitely catches quicker than the old one did, and it's given us no issues since replacing it. It bolts right on, it's available from the major vendors, and the price is pretty reasonable. Unless you really have issues with your car staying all original, I'd definitely recommend doing it.

Bought mine at Autozone! 139. I think and I keep the Original!

[Giamanut]

I've had various starter problems over the years, most often the phantom solenoid click. However I recently fully resolved this issue on 5052's starter by disassembling the solenoid, cleaning the contacts with a dremel tool and greasing the armature assembly. This solved the problem 100%! The entire process took less than an hour :-)


5052???
I got 5051...! Oct 81 car!

[Giamanut]

Just finished installing the Eagle Premier Starter. It seems the only way I can crank/start the car is with all the wires ALL on the Large/Main Stud on top (including the 2 smaller terminal wires).
The only problem is the charging voltage goes haywire on my cluster so I imagine I have one small wire that should be bolted elsewhere?

I had the stock Paris Rhone Starter with all original wiring before and no problems.

Tried running the bullet head terminal wire (as shown in this pic below from fellow member) to the lower larger stud that goes from starter solenoid to starter motor, and leaving the white and red wire hooked up with all the other wiring on large post and the car wouldn't crank this way either.
Thoughts?
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6665&d=1320715390
From what I understand the Eagle Premier starter has this smaller post, but it's a ground post...no wires to connect to it? Tried putting the 2 small wires there and that wouldn't make the car start either.

Anyone running the Eagle Premier starter with Headers/aftermarket exhaust?
I'm running the headers/no cat stainless steel UK exhaust from www.stainless-exhaust.com (amazing sound)
Unfortunately the starter wiring is really close to the header using this starter..... the only way I see to be really safe would be to cut off the small terminal/ground so I could rotate all the wiring away.

Look forward to your help and comments.
Thanks
Dave M

Dave red and white wire goes to small terminal should be alone or you can put the bullet / bypass wire with it. Is this the way you have it?

[n_tensetuning]

Thanks for responding Giamanut

I had originally run the white/red wire and the bullet terminal wire on the small post and all the other large wires together on the top post of the starter solenoid and couldn't get the car to crank.

Are you saying I shouldn't make the connection to the bullet terminal wire (leave it alone) and just have the white/red wire to the small post?

Do you or anyone have pics of how they setup the stock wires off the paris-rhone starter on the autozone/eagle premier starter?

Wondering if the starter is defective?

I do see that the small terminal wiggles a little bit.....

I originally thought this little side post connection was a ground.....

Thanks
Dave

[Ron]

1000 words: :)

61468

[n_tensetuning]

Ron....thank you thank you

That's exactly what I needed and is the perfect picture for anyone doing this starter swap in the future.

Car started instantly wired up like this.

Also, decided to eliminate the main battery wire to the starter and ran it to the jumper post on pontoon and then just have the wire from jumper post down to starter along with little bundle of Brown wires.... helped clean up the wiring and move the wiring more away from starter.

Thanks again for posting the pic.
Super helpful and helps eliminate much confusion from earlier posts.
Dave M

[Rich_NYS]

1000 words: :)

61468


Ron is the friggin' man.

[82DMC12]

Bringing this old thread back from the dead because it was very helpful. I currently have no exhaust system installed because I'm in the middle of a frame-out restoration. My Paris Rhone starter is in good shape and has been rebuilt once, and has a new-ish starter solenoid. The problem with that starter, though, is you can't get it out of the engine if you have headers installed. So, I decided now is the time to do it.

These starters are getting hard to find now.

Autozone - no longer available
Advance Auto - photo in the only listing for a starter for a 1991 Premier V6 doesn't look like the correct starter and is not available in stores anyway
O'Reilly - one listing, shows it as ineligible for pick up in store or ship to home. says "call store to order"... I tried to do so and they said they looked it up and it's not available!

Rock Auto - had ONE Remy starter left, I bought it. There are still some Delco starters for double price.

Get one now while you still can!

[Ron]

O'Reilly - one listing, shows it as ineligible for pick up in store or ship to home. says "call store to order"... I tried to do so and they said they looked it up and it's not available!That's odd...I just tried and it will send me one for $91.99 with free shipping, $40 core.

[82DMC12]

That's odd...I just tried and it will send me one for $91.99 with free shipping, $40 core.

This one here? I called the store, they looked up the number, and they said it's not available for them to order for me and they have to put in a "Customer Support" ticket to try to find one. He also searched by application (1990/1991 Eagle Premier 3.0L V6) and he agreed that's the only one they show.


69080

[Ron]

No, Part #:R612473B:
69081



FWIW- There are 2 Remans on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/303721432463?fits=Model%3APremier%7CMake%3AEagle&epid=74436835&hash=item46b735458f:g:C9QAAOSwe~JfgfaF) for $65/no core/free shipping right now

[82DMC12]

No, Part #:R612473B:
69081



FWIW- There are 2 Remans on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/303721432463?fits=Model%3APremier%7CMake%3AEagle&epid=74436835&hash=item46b735458f:g:C9QAAOSwe~JfgfaF) for $65/no core/free shipping right now




Can you tell me what car you looked up to find that starter? Earlier in this thread it was said 1990 Eagle Premier which is what I have been searching for. When I look up that part # in your shopping cart, the O'Reilly website says it does not fit a 1990 Premier.

[Ron]

Can you tell me what car you looked up to find that starter?
1991 Eagle Premier:
69082

Check out the Chart Here (https://www.ebay.com/itm/303721432463?fits=Model%3APremier%7CMake%3AEagle&epid=74436835&hash=item46b735458f:g:C9QAAOSwe~JfgfaF).

[Jpalatinus]

Bringing this old thread back from the dead because it was very helpful. I currently have no exhaust system installed because I'm in the middle of a frame-out restoration. My Paris Rhone starter is in good shape and has been rebuilt once, and has a new-ish starter solenoid. The problem with that starter, though, is you can't get it out of the engine if you have headers installed. So, I decided now is the time to do it.

Just to clarify you CAN remove the Paris Rhone starter with headers present, I have the DMC stage 1 exhaust and did it quite easily) you have to take the solenoid out and take the starter apart while its up there and pull it out in pieces but it can be done. I do not think its very possible to install a Paris Rhone starter without removing the exhaust headers. It is quite easy to put the eagle starter in there with headers though.

Joe P.
6808
17167
883

[82DMC12]

1991 Eagle Premier:
69082

Check out the Chart Here (https://www.ebay.com/itm/303721432463?fits=Model%3APremier%7CMake%3AEagle&epid=74436835&hash=item46b735458f:g:C9QAAOSwe~JfgfaF).

Thanks! I don't know what my problem was but I cancelled the Rock Auto starter and ordered this one instead.

[82DMC12]

Hey guys,

I did get the O'Reilly Ultima starter installed and it's working GREAT. I'm really glad I upgraded while I had the engine out.

At first, I followed some instructions that another owner gave me which was authored by DPNW stating to put the red/white wire and the blue/yellow wire onto the same small post on the new starter. I did exactly that, and then connected my battery, ready to start the car for the first time since doing my frame-off restoration. The car started well but after the exhaust started to warm up I saw a bit of smoke/vapor which was probably just anti-seize burning off but I wanted to be sure so I turned off the key, however then found the starter was still spinning! I disconnected the battery which of course ended that. I waited for the exhaust to cool while looking at this thread where I see the blue/yellow is shown going to the big post that the black starter wire is on. So, I cut the small terminal off the bullet connector (blue/yellow) and put a larger ring terminal on, put it on the bigger terminal, kept the red/white on the small terminal, and re-connected the battery. Now it works perfectly.

Can anyone explain the difference? Maybe the starter the franchises were selling is not the same as the Eagle Premier starter?

Anyway, all good now but I like to understand why things go wrong.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The blue/yellow wire powers the half of the ignition resistor but I don't have the ignition relay setup on my schematic. Check to be sure you resistors are not powered all the time.

I never connected that blue/yellow wire and had no problems starting the car. I've since eliminated the resistors anyway.

[Timeless]

Add me to the list of the happy owners with the Eagle Remy starter. Installed it recently and love it.

[82DMC12]

The blue/yellow wire powers the half of the ignition resistor but I don't have the ignition relay setup on my schematic. Check to be sure you resistors are not powered all the time.

I never connected that blue/yellow wire and had no problems starting the car. I've since eliminated the resistors anyway.

Dave,

I forgot about this thread as I got busy with other stuff on my car. However, on Facebook another owner just installed this Eagle Premier starter and he has both yellow/blue and red/white on the same small stud. He claims the starter works fine.

I hooked my starter up the same way that Ron posted in post #60 and it does work however I have never looked at the blue/yellow wire on my ignition resister to see if it is powered all the time. Are you saying the blue/yellow should only have +12 when cranking? Or should it be dead when cranking? When is blue/yellow supposed to be live?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Dave,

I forgot about this thread as I got busy with other stuff on my car. However, on Facebook another owner just installed this Eagle Premier starter and he has both yellow/blue and red/white on the same small stud. He claims the starter works fine.

I hooked my starter up the same way that Ron posted in post #60 and it does work however I have never looked at the blue/yellow wire on my ignition resister to see if it is powered all the time. Are you saying the blue/yellow should only have +12 when cranking? Or should it be dead when cranking? When is blue/yellow supposed to be live?

I'm not sure since I don't have the resistors anymore. But my guess is the resistor bypass circuit needs to see 12 volts only when cranking. The white/red is only 12 volts when cranking but does not float when not cranking. The blue/yellow did provide 12 volts when cranking and did float when not cranking.

[82DMC12]

I'm not sure since I don't have the resistors anymore. But my guess is the resistor bypass circuit needs to see 12 volts only when cranking. The white/red is only 12 volts when cranking but does not float when not cranking. The blue/yellow did provide 12 volts when cranking and did float when not cranking.

Hi Dave,

What do you mean by "float"?

I just checked my car blue-yellow wire at the ignition resistors (disconnected and checking the female spade) and confirmed that I don't have +12 when the key is OFF and I don't have +12 when the car is running which sounds correct. I will need a test light to see if I have power to it when cranking (will check tonight). But of course when I plug the wire back onto the resistor, I have 12V because it's getting that from the resistor.

I guess that doesn't really matter because the starter relay prevents that +12 from going "backwards" to the starter motor itself. Am I right about that?

[Ron]

The Eagle setup doesn't have a (R)esistor terminal to feed the Blue/Yellow wire like the OEM unit does (a 2nd small spade terminal/pigtail).
But the OEM solenoid feeds the starter motor's input terminal at the same time as it does the (R)esistor terminal, so it's OK to put the Blue/Yellow on the Eagle's motor feed terminal.
It would also work by putting the Blue/Yellow to the White/Red, BUT, a hung/shorted/bad ignition relay could allow the starter to engage/hang when the key was turned to the run position...me thinks.

[82DMC12]

The Eagle setup doesn't have a (R)esistor terminal to feed the Blue/Yellow wire like the OEM unit does (a 2nd small spade terminal/pigtail).
But the OEM solenoid feeds the starter motor's input terminal at the same time as it does the (R)esistor terminal, so it's OK to put the Blue/Yellow on the Eagle's motor feed terminal.
It would also work by putting the Blue/Yellow to the White/Red, BUT, a hung/shorted/bad ignition relay could allow the starter to engage/hang when the key was turned to the run position...me thinks.

So, a couple thoughts/questions I have about that.

1. If the resistor bypass relay (the relay on the firewall below the resistors) got stuck closed, would the blue/yellow wire cause the starter to operate without turning the ignition key? It seems like it would since it can feed 12V from the ignition resistor backwards to the starter motor terminal.

2. If that is true, would a diode be recommended to install on the blue/yellow to totally prevent that possibility?

3. Does the red/white terminal operate exactly the same with the Eagle starter as it does the original Paris Rhone unit? I have an issue where sometimes the car cranks longer than it should when stone cold and I wonder if I have an issue with red/white circuit (TTS and CSV).

[Bitsyncmaster]

Hi Dave,

What do you mean by "float"?

Float means "open circuit" or "infinity for ohms".

[Ron]

So, a couple thoughts/questions I have about that.

1. If the resistor bypass relay (the relay on the firewall below the resistors) got stuck closed, would the blue/yellow wire cause the starter to operate without turning the ignition key? It seems like it would since it can feed 12V from the ignition resistor backwards to the starter motor terminal.

2. If that is true, would a diode be recommended to install on the blue/yellow to totally prevent that possibility?

3. Does the red/white terminal operate exactly the same with the Eagle starter as it does the original Paris Rhone unit? I have an issue where sometimes the car cranks longer than it should when stone cold and I wonder if I have an issue with red/white circuit (TTS and CSV).

1. No. For OEM, there would be no power to any of it if the ignition key wasn't turned on. (The White wire from Aux Relay 2 would be dead since the Aux relay is off. Note that there are two Blue/Yellow wires at that relay, and they are not connected together. The Blue/Yellow wire coming from the solenoid would not have anything on it because the solenoid would not be engaged. And the other Blue/White at he relay would not have anything on it coming from the resistors.)
Same for when someone taps the White/Red wire at the solenoid with the Eagle, since the White/Red wire will not have power when the key is off.

2. It's not. But, as said, I think things can get fouled up when the key is at on/run and the relay is stuck shut...
Put the Blue/Yellow wire at the starter on the terminal that goes from the solenoid to the starter motor (like in post 30 ;-).

3. Yes (There is a copper disk inside the solenoid that connects the two together while the starter is engaged.)
FWIW- The Big 3 and a lot of foreign starter solenoids have a "R" and a "S" marked on them when they reduce power to the coil. (R)esistor (S)olenoid.


With the key turned to off, if the relay stuck closed, the Blue/White wire at the relay going to the resistors, would get feed from the White wire coming from the Aux. relay 2. The Blue/White wire at the relay going to the Starter solenoid would be grounded through the relay's engage coil and open at the starter solenoid (floating) on an OEM setup. But

[82DMC12]

1. No. For OEM, there would be no power to any of it if the ignition key wasn't turned on. (The White wire from Aux Relay 2 would be dead since the Aux relay is off. Note that there are two Blue/Yellow wires at that relay, and they are not connected together. The Blue/Yellow wire coming from the solenoid would not have anything on it because the solenoid would not be engaged. And the other Blue/White at he relay would not have anything on it coming from the resistors.)
Same for when someone taps the White/Red wire at the solenoid with the Eagle, since the White/Red wire will not have power when the key is off.

2. It's not. But, as said, I think things can get fouled up when the key is at on/run and the relay is stuck shut...
Put the Blue/Yellow wire at the starter on the terminal that goes from the solenoid to the starter motor (like in post 30 ;-).

3. Yes (There is a copper disk inside the solenoid that connects the two together while the starter is engaged.)
FWIW- The Big 3 and a lot of foreign starter solenoids have a "R" and a "S" marked on them when they reduce power to the coil. (R)esistor (S)olenoid.


With the key turned to off, if the relay stuck closed, the Blue/White wire at the relay going to the resistors, would get feed from the White wire coming from the Aux. relay 2. The Blue/White wire at the relay going to the Starter solenoid would be grounded through the relay's engage coil and open at the starter solenoid (floating) on an OEM setup. But


Regarding point #1, I was thinking if the resistor split relay got stuck while the car was already running. When my car is running, I have +12V on the left side of the resistors. Is that incorrect? Because if the resistor relay were stuck closed, would that not pass that 12V backwards to the starter motor terminal, bypassing the starter solenoid? Perhaps there is something I'm not understanding.

[Ron]

Regarding point #1, I was thinking if the resistor split relay got stuck while the car was already running. When my car is running, I have +12V on the left side of the resistors. Is that incorrect? Because if the resistor relay were stuck closed, would that not pass that 12V backwards to the starter motor terminal, bypassing the starter solenoid? Perhaps there is something I'm not understanding.

??? You said, "without turning the ignition key".

Anyhoo...
Yes, 12V at the left side of the Resistors is correct.
(Key at Run will reduce the coil voltage, a little. When the starter is engaged, the Ignition Relay will bypass the 1st Resistor, causing the coil voltage to be reduced even less.)

What you may be missing- The Ignition Relay has two UY wires (don't ask why). One UY is connected to the W wire and 1st resistor. The other UY is connected to the coil inside the Ignition Relay and nothing else!, I.E., the two UY are never connected together. So, there is no power at the Ignition Relay that can get to the UY going to the starter. Connecting the WR wire at the Starter Solenoid to the UY wire there, does nothing more than make the Ignition Relay engage a tiny bit earlier (eliminates the time it takes for the solenoid to react and send power along the BY wire as it normally does). It's just a convenient place to get the signal that the Eagle setup doesn't offer...

[82DMC12]

??? You said, "without turning the ignition key".

Anyhoo...
Yes, 12V at the left side of the Resistors is correct.
(Key at Run will reduce the coil voltage, a little. When the starter is engaged, the Ignition Relay will bypass the 1st Resistor, causing the coil voltage to be reduced even less.)

What you may be missing- The Ignition Relay has two UY wires (don't ask why). One UY is connected to the W wire and 1st resistor. The other UY is connected to the coil inside the Ignition Relay and nothing else!, I.E., the two UY are never connected together. So, there is no power at the Ignition Relay that can get to the UY going to the starter. Connecting the WR wire at the Starter Solenoid to the UY wire there, does nothing more than make the Ignition Relay engage a tiny bit earlier (eliminates the time it takes for the solenoid to react and send power along the BY wire as it normally does). It's just a convenient place to get the signal that the Eagle setup doesn't offer...

OK great, thanks for the explanation! I will rest easy now :)

[TheStoot]

This is how I wired my Eagle starter up

[mike123]

Thanks for this incredibly helpful thread!

It looks like the O'Reilly part R612473B is in stock (https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/alternators---starters/starter/dad3c6651e74/v/a/2165/automotive-car-1991-eagle-premier) after others were having trouble finding it in the past.

Can anyone explain the functional difference between the diagram here with one wire on each post (https://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2200-Eagle-Premier-Starter&p=251876&viewfull=1#post251876), and the diagram in the post directly above where the White/Red and bullet connector wires are both on the same post?

[DMC-Ron]

Mike,
There's a subtle difference. In the photo on this thread, the blue/yellow wire (wire has been spliced and extended with a brownish wire) is connected with the white/red on the solenoid coil connection of the starter and receives power from the starter switch when the switch is in the engine cranking (starting) position. In the other referenced thread, the blue/yellow wire is connected to the load side of the starter solenoid and receives power through the solenoid contacts when the starter motor cranks. Either method works to provide power to the blue/yellow wire while the engine is cranking. The blue/yellow wire goes to the resistor relay and bypasses a coil resister to provide a higher grade spark while the engine is cranking.

Ron

[mike123]

I see - thank you Ron! Will keep this in mind as I try to swap a starter soon.