PRV mods and Engine swaps

[knightjp]

Have a look at these...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5wiDIzMXac


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo2gYK1yQgI

I managed to find these two examples of engine swaps. I wonder if there is any other swap you guys have heard of other than the V8 swaps mentioned in other threads.
Any porsche or other german engines???

I also want to know about the various mods that can be done to the PRV... I know about the twin turbos and the Stage 3 mods offered by DMC.. Is there anything else that can be done???
What if we changed the SOHC to a DOHC and added a supercharger on top if the twin turbos to which is attached via an electromagnetic clutch so it can be switched on or off.

[Mike C.]

The 2JZ swap was done by a member on the forum a couple of years ago, then he sold the car.

The rotary car is pretty popular as well.

When it comes to engine swaps, you talk to 10 guys and you will get 12 answers. Some are all for it, but D mechanics are weary of touching them.
Some hate it because it kills resale value.
Some love it because it's different, and gives the car the sound it should have
Some hate it because it is not original.

There's more involved than just pulling motors and plugging a new one in. There have been numerous upon numerous threads in the past about people swearing they are doing a swap, or are "in the planning stages" of doing a swap (which loosely translates to 'im full of crap and think this is a camaro, and I can make this a fast and furious race car to street race at 2am in Los Angeles").

Some people have pulled it off wonderfully
Some people have failed miserably and sell their cars off after realizing they messed up.

We have had 5.0 swaps, LSx Swaps, Lotus Swap, Land Rover V8 swap, Cadillac motor swaps, twin motor swaps, VQ swaps, etc.

Personally, I like something different. In reality, I do know of people having difficulty selling engine swaps before.

[knightjp]

There have been numerous upon numerous threads in the past about people swearing they are doing a swap, or are "in the planning stages" of doing a swap (which loosely translates to 'im full of crap and think this is a camaro, and I can make this a fast and furious race car to street race at 2am in Los Angeles").


Personally, I like something different. In reality, I do know of people having difficulty selling engine swaps before.
Kinda contradictory there on whether you are for or against engine swaps.

I'm a huge fan of stock and original. So if the car has got what I believe to be a perfect combination, you won't hear me talking about adding anything aftermarket. I wouldn't change anything to improve it either.

But hand me a car with a story like the Delorean's and my wheels just keep turning on how I can make this car, the way it should've been.
You know what I'd like to see... I'd like to see the Delorean story revisited.
Delorean was looking to have Porsche engineer the car for production; but Porsche wanted 2 years. He then went to Lotus who managed to do it by borrowing ideas from the Esprit; not exactly a bad choice, but given more time, they probably would have come up with something similar or something differenct.. no one will ever know.

What I'd like see is.. take two DMC-12s and give it to each of these companies. Then document (video) on what the two companies would change or do to improve the performance, the handling, etc...

Obviously retaining the stock engine is good provided you can get the performance and sound from it that is required for a sports car.
I've highlighted a few mods that are done by DMC... including the Stage 3 upgrade.. but is there anything else that can be done.
What about changing the stock unit for a bigger 3.0L PRV V6??? Is there a way to make it a DOHC???

[Nicholas R]

The 2JZ swap was done by a member on the forum a couple of years ago, then he sold the car.
...content removed...
Some hate it because it kills resale value.
...content removed...


Not always. In fact as I recall, the 2JZ car went for a bit more than what a comparable stock D would have gone for.

I suppose it depends on quality and craftsmanship. Having been very upclose and personal with that car, I can vouch that the swap was performed very beautifully.

[knightjp]

Not always. In fact as I recall, the 2JZ car went for a bit more than what a comparable stock D would have gone for.

I suppose it depends on quality and craftsmanship. Having been very upclose and personal with that car, I can vouch that the swap was performed very beautifully.

I can't see why not, considering that the 2JZ is one of the most sought after engines in the world. That and the V8s seem to be the one thing that Toyota got completely right and by using them in various cars, they've developed a cult following.

Does anyone have a picture of a Delorean with a Porsche Carrera engine in it???

[nofear365]

What you rarely see is a video of one of these swaps in action. I've never seen the twin engine flexing it's muscle. Never saw the northstar conversion doing anything other than idleing.

I can only think of a handful of conversion cars that actually demonstrate with video the success of their new engine. DeLotus is one of them... Malevy's nissan swap is another (on my youtube page). I guess you can count the one with the ford that keeps stalling?

[knightjp]

Malevy's nissan swap is another (on my youtube page). I guess you can count the one with the ford that keeps stalling?
Link please... :)

[Farrar]

Link please... :)

First video result here (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=DeLorean+Ford+V8).

Farrar

[knightjp]

First video result here (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=DeLorean+Ford+V8).

Farrar
Nah... I was actually looking for the car with the Nissan engine...

[Farrar]

And again (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=DeLorean+VQ35).

Google is our friend. :)

[Citizen]

The 2JZ swap was done by a member on the forum a couple of years ago, then he sold the car.

The rotary car is pretty popular as well.

[snip]

We have had 5.0 swaps, LSx Swaps, Lotus Swap, Land Rover V8 swap, Cadillac motor swaps, twin motor swaps, VQ swaps, etc.


VINs please! (for the record book)

[Nicholas R]

I can't see why not, considering that the 2JZ is one of the most sought after engines in the world. That and the V8s seem to be the one thing that Toyota got completely right and by using them in various cars, they've developed a cult following.

Just FYI, the 2JZ is a turbocharged inline 6 cylinder

[knightjp]

Has anyone seen a Delorean with a Porsche Carrera engine in it???
From what I can figure, to give good balance in between size, weight of the PRV V6 and more power... Either the 1999 Carrera engines or the 3.0L Ferrari V8 from the Lancia Thema 8.32.

[congerz83]

Well as long as we're pipe dreaming... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_SHO_V6_engine#3.0

[knightjp]

We have had 5.0 swaps, LSx Swaps, Lotus Swap, Land Rover V8 swap, Cadillac motor swaps, twin motor swaps, VQ swaps, etc.


I've seen videos about a few of these swaps, but no really great ones. Obviously the Lotus engined one has to be the coolest since it came from the car the Delorean engineered to be like..

Will a Porsche 911 engine fit into the Delorean??? Or would it require more work than a V configuration would...
Has anyone tried putting the engine from the Subaru Impreza WRX???

[Mike C.]

Not always. In fact as I recall, the 2JZ car went for a bit more than what a comparable stock D would have gone for.

I suppose it depends on quality and craftsmanship. Having been very upclose and personal with that car, I can vouch that the swap was performed very beautifully.

So was I :wink:

Yes, Eddie's car sold for more than a standard car. With engine swap cars, that's not always the case...



Kinda contradictory there on whether you are for or against engine swaps.

No, it isn't. I stated my preference that I like things that are different. However, I don't like half assed swaps... plain and simple.


but is there anything else that can be done.
What about changing the stock unit for a bigger 3.0L PRV V6??? Is there a way to make it a DOHC???

3.0 PRV swaps have been done.


I've seen videos about a few of these swaps, but no really great ones. Obviously the Lotus engined one has to be the coolest since it came from the car the Delorean engineered to be like..

Will a Porsche 911 engine fit into the Delorean??? Or would it require more work than a V configuration would...
Has anyone tried putting the engine from the Subaru Impreza WRX???


If you have the money, most anything will fit... no one on the board has done either of those swaps though.

[knightjp]

I guess no one likes my idea of giving Lotus and Porsche two DMC-12s and seeing what they come up with. I'd really like to see what Porsche and Lotus would change in the Delorean as it is now. Lotus did a Lada for Top Gear I know.

In reading the Delorean story, what interests me is one of the great "What Ifs"....
What if Delorean had two years to give Porsche to engineer the prototypes for production? What if the same amount of time was given to Lotus???
What changes in the engine and handling setup would have been made???

[dmcjohn]

I would speculate that Porsche would have designed a full double wishbone suspension setup with anti-roll bar for both the front and rear suspension, which would have been great!

However, they wouldn't have had as much experience with composites as Lotus, so not sure what direction the underbody would have gone.

[knightjp]

Porsche are the experts of RR layout. After all they practically invented and re-invented all the way through the 911s 40+ years of development. If anyone could've given the Delorean what it needed to be a sports car, it would be those blokes.

However like dmcjohn said, Lotus has always been able to make light weight, small engined cars that were exceptional in handling and giant killers in terms of performance... Their knowledge of composites was important for Delorean to keep the weight down on the DMC's construction. After all, stainless steel is heavier...

I guess Lotus did the best they could with the time they had, but it would be nice to see what they would've come up with had they been given more... much more. Porsche too...

What I'd like to do is put the suspension setup. gearbox and engine from a 911 into the Delorean.

[Farrar]

After all, stainless steel is heavier...

... than what?

Farrar

[knightjp]

... than what?

Farrar Regular steel & metal used for making cars...

[Farrar]

Regular steel & metal used for making cars...

Regular steel panels would not have been bolted to a fiberglass underbody.

The car could have been all fiberglass, but that wouldn't have given DeLorean the look he wanted. The car could have been mild carbon steel, but that wouldn't have given DeLorean the rustproof body he wanted.

If you want to make a fast, good-handling DeLorean, stick a turbocharged flat 4 in the middle of a carbon fiber underbody and put stainless panels on it. If you're gonna go, go all the way.

Farrar

[knightjp]

Regular steel panels would not have been bolted to a fiberglass underbody.

The car could have been all fiberglass, but that wouldn't have given DeLorean the look he wanted. The car could have been mild carbon steel, but that wouldn't have given DeLorean the rustproof body he wanted.

If you want to make a fast, good-handling DeLorean, stick a turbocharged flat 4 in the middle of a carbon fiber underbody and put stainless panels on it. If you're gonna go, go all the way.

Farrar
I've not driven a Delorean, so you'd probably know more about the way the car handles; but the Lotus had a hand in the development. Lotus is known for making giant killers with great handling cars. Surely the stock Delorean has good handling.

[opethmike]

I've not driven a Delorean, so you'd probably know more about the way the car handles; but the Lotus had a hand in the development. Lotus is known for making giant killers with great handling cars. Surely the stock Delorean has good handling.

The handling is good, but not great. Esprits of the same vintage piss all over the D in terms of handling. Lotus is notorious for "dumbing down" the handling on the cars that they help engineer for other companies.

[Farrar]

Yes, I drove mine the other day. In terms of body roll, it handles better than my 2006 PT Cruiser, but not as well as my 1998 Concorde or my 1993 Duster. I cannot compare it to vehicles of the time, since I was not driving in 1981.

In my opinion, a stock DMC-12 handles okay -- but not great -- partly because the car is too tall (I think Lotus designed the chassis to sit lower), and partly because it's rear-engined. The DMC-12 prototype, according to people who have driven it, handles like it's on rails compared to the stock DMC-12, in part because of where the drivetrain sits. Unfortunately, Citroën's 4-banger provided less oomph than was desired, so DeLorean suggested a turbocharged version. Citroën said "non," so that was the end of that.

Farrar

[knightjp]

Yes, I drove mine the other day. In terms of body roll, it handles better than my 2006 PT Cruiser, but not as well as my 1998 Concorde or my 1993 Duster. I cannot compare it to vehicles of the time, since I was not driving in 1981.

In my opinion, a stock DMC-12 handles okay -- but not great -- partly because the car is too tall (I think Lotus designed the chassis to sit lower), and partly because it's rear-engined. The DMC-12 prototype, according to people who have driven it, handles like it's on rails compared to the stock DMC-12, in part because of where the drivetrain sits. Unfortunately, Citroën's 4-banger provided less oomph than was desired, so DeLorean suggested a turbocharged version. Citroën said "non," so that was the end of that.

Farrar
Another major difference is that the stock DMC has a backbone chassis like most Lotus cars... one of the things borrowed from the Esprit. The prototype had some kind of sub-frame thing...
I think it had something more to do with fact that Lotus was taking stuff from the Esprit to save time and that was a mid-engined car not a rear engined one like the Delorean.
Seeing how the initial design was based on the Esprit, I guess Lotus thought that whatever they were porting over would work; forgetting one import aspect.. The engine. The Delorean was initially designed to be a mid engined car... not a rear engined one. It was the sudden shift to the PRV that made that change... not a good one, but then again given to the right people, it would've been great.
Frankly even John Delorean admited that Porsche would've done a better job had they been given the time they wanted since they had a lot of experience with the 911.

[Farrar]

The Delorean was initially designed to be a mid engined car... not a rear engined one. It was the sudden shift to the PRV that made that change...

I believe I said that.

Oh, well. :shrug:

[knightjp]

I believe I said that.

Oh, well. :shrug:

Yes you did... I guess you could call it re-tweeting.. :lol:

[knightjp]

Trying to decide whether I should go for Japanese or German (Subaru or Porsche) in terms of the engine...

Subaru EZ engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_EZ_engine)

Porsche 996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_996)...

The thing is although the size difference in extremely small, the power and torque figures are quite a bit difference.

[Nicholas R]

What would you do in terms of transmission.

[knightjp]

What would you do in terms of transmission.
Transmission from a Porsche 996

Wow the Delorean with the Mazda 20B tri-rotor is quite popular.
I wonder how a naturally aspirated rotary engine is compared to the Flat 6. Both are well balanced engines.

[Jimmyvonviggle]

I don't get this thread. Who cares what Porsche would do if given a DeLorean. I'm sure they could have taken a Ford Pinto and made it a decent car too.

Any car (or any product) is always under time constraints to get it to market.

Either you love the DeLorean with all its quirkiness and charm or get another car. I'm not against tweeks or upgrades, but lets not make this car into something else.

[DMCMW Dave]

Wow the Delorean with the Mazda 20B tri-rotor is quite popular.

Popular how? I've only heard of the one being built (in FL). Then it was sold off and apparently disappeared from the face of the earth after about 2007.

I'd love to know what ever happened to it.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Poor MPG killed the rotary. To bad they did not keep working the R&D on that motor. I think it's so much better then the reciprocating engines.

[knightjp]

Poor MPG killed the rotary. To bad they did not keep working the R&D on that motor. I think it's so much better then the reciprocating engines.Apart from that other Japanese engineer (I forget the name), John Delorean was the only other engineer who saw the potential of the Rotary engine. Infact, they made a prototype for a Corvette which was powered by a mid-mounted rotary engine and had gullwing doors.
GM did not see much potential in the project and scrapped it. Delorean, tried to buy the engineering plans for the car and the rotary engine research off GM, but fearing his success with the concept, they declined. It would have saved him a huge bundle in terms of development cost. Well thank goodness they declined, otherwise we would not have this glorious Delorean shape.

But on the other hand, while GM scrapped their rotary engine plans, the Japanese engineer was backed by Mazda for its R&D and now they're the only ones that I know of, who are mass producing rotary engines.
It's an awesome concept and apart of the flat engines, its the smoothest that I know of. But low torque and bad fuel efficiency does make it a gamble.


Popular how? I've only heard of the one being built (in FL). Then it was sold off and apparently disappeared from the face of the earth after about 2007.

I'd love to know what ever happened to it.

Well I say popular, 'cuz if you do a search on google, you'll find hundreds of threads and articles on it. Do a search on youtube for Delorean and the video is one of the first hits you get... :)


I don't get this thread. Who cares what Porsche would do if given a DeLorean. I'm sure they could have taken a Ford Pinto and made it a decent car too.

Any car (or any product) is always under time constraints to get it to market.

Either you love the DeLorean with all its quirkiness and charm or get another car. I'm not against tweeks or upgrades, but lets not make this car into something else.
When you read through the Delorean company history, you can't help think what if....
However you're right... :)

[congerz83]

I don't get this thread. Who cares what Porsche would do if given a DeLorean. I'm sure they could have taken a Ford Pinto and made it a decent car too.

Any car (or any product) is always under time constraints to get it to market.

Either you love the DeLorean with all its quirkiness and charm or get another car. I'm not against tweeks or upgrades, but lets not make this car into something else.

Why is there a problem with people getting creative? Of course most of this thread is speculation and sometimes impractical, but that's why DMC owners/fans are who they are. To be an owner of one of these things, you're already thinking "outside the box". That comes with the keys...

[knightjp]

Why is there a problem with people getting creative? Of course most of this thread is speculation and sometimes impractical, but that's why DMC owners/fans are who they are. To be an owner of one of these things, you're already thinking "outside the box". That comes with the keys...
Well said.... :)

Having said that its a weezy lump, later generation PRVs, built after Delorean closed down, did manage to get a good rep. After all the fast speed record on LeMans was set by a Peugeot powered by a turbocharged PRV; and that record still stands, from what I know...

But lets face it. These were all set by 3.0L PRVs and not the 2.8L ones used in the Delorean. 0.2L difference doesn't sound much but it is...

Which does bring us a question.... how is it according to wikipedia companies like Venturi and Peugeot were getting over 250BHP with 3.0L PRVs by turbocharging them and here we are over 20 yrs later with struggling to get 150BHP from our 2.8s...
And how does the PRV compare to the engine that replaced it.. PSA ES engine.

[dmc6960]

But lets face it. These were all set by 3.0L PRVs and not the 2.8L ones used in the Delorean. 0.2L difference doesn't sound much but it is...

Your reading too much into everything. Just enjoy the DeLorean for what it is.

[knightjp]

Your reading too much into everything. Just enjoy the DeLorean for what it is.
:)

[Farrar]

Just enjoy the DeLorean for what it is.

Quote of the week!

[knightjp]

I've been doing quite a bit of reading up on these two engines... So far from what I've gathered, these are no V8s but their sounds do turn heads. With quite a few awards each in terms of design and testimonials on based their reps, these engines have proven themselves, when compared to the normal straights, inlines & Vs...

Choosing between them based on their merits and exclusivity is frankly proving very hard. I'm probably going to be happy with either one in the car, but I just thought I might choose based on their sound. So I chose a videos with both engines having the same aftermarket exhaust system.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATTPBexFmZI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZyDLNpL-jI

The flat 6 probably has its flaws, but I haven't found a single one yet. The Rotary has one major flaw.. its torque figures when naturally aspirated. Its fuel efficiency also questionable, but not much of an issue with me.
OK... the Rotary in the video is no 3 rotor, but I think I'd be happy with a Renesis.

[Nicholas R]

I really doubt that there is enough room in the engine bay for a flat 6. That is a very wide engine and the Delorean engine bay barely fits a V engine. Not to mentio the frame is V shaped to accomidate a V engine. The transmission mates to the engine at the right in the middle of the engine cradle. I'd be VERY surprised if that flat six could fit in that cradle low enough to mate to any transmission.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/419982_10100361944801725_21412543_45990194_1188119 413_n.jpg
http://www.tunersgroup.com/images/gallery/gallery443.jpeg
Best of luck.

[Farrar]

If each Borla exhaust system in those videos has been tuned for those particular engines in that application, wouldn't you end up with a much different sound on a DeLorean because of the significantly shorter pipes?

[ramblinmike]

If each Borla exhaust system in those videos has been tuned for those particular engines in that application, wouldn't you end up with a much different sound on a DeLorean because of the significantly shorter pipes?

....and odd fire, and 8.8:1 compression, and cam profile......

[knightjp]

I really doubt that there is enough room in the engine bay for a flat 6. That is a very wide engine and the Delorean engine bay barely fits a V engine. Not to mentio the frame is V shaped to accomidate a V engine. The transmission mates to the engine at the right in the middle of the engine cradle. I'd be VERY surprised if that flat six could fit in that cradle low enough to mate to any transmission.
Best of luck.
Thanks... The thing is I've not yet decided which engine I would want to go with. Like I said below, both have excellent talking points and so far I haven't come across anything negative about the flat 6. But there are slight discouraging points about the rotary engine, which I've also mentioned.

I've not completed my research... Both engines have their die-hard fans. Its separating the factual advantages and disadvantages from the emotional hype that is taking me a bit of time.
Which engine I'm a fan of?... Both... LOL

[DMC5180]

FWIW: A (3 rotor) rotary was installed several years ago.(black car) Also A Cadillac 32V Northstar about 12 years ago now. 300HP stock. It had nice rumble to it and looked good in the Delorean. I don't know where either of those cars reside today.

[DMCMW Dave]

FWIW: A (3 rotor) rotary was installed several years ago.(black car) Also A Cadillac 32V Northstar about 12 years ago now. 300HP stock. It had nice rumble to it and looked good in the Delorean. I don't know where either of those cars reside today.

I mentioned the Mazda a few posts back - it seems to have just gone missing.

The ACE Cadillac has reportedly gone the way of many engine swap vehicles - it's not running, and DeLorean shops won't work on it since the Caddy install is so unusual, and neither will Cadillac people since it's not in a Caddy. The company who did the conversion is out of business. I believe it is somewhere in Texas. Too bad, I thought it was a good looking piece of work. I saw in in person at the DOA convention around 1999.

It appears there is another Cadillac conversion that's been in process for almost 10 years, it does not seem to be going anywhere either.

IMO you can count the number of successful DMC engine conversions (successful meaning they actually run and drive, with functional air conditioning and at least as much reliablity as a decently-maintained stock DeLorean) on one hand.

Dave S (engine swap skeptic)

[Chris Burns]

Engine swaps are cool to look at, but a waste of a car usually:bawling:

I say, KEEP IT STOCK! Somethings were not susposed to be tampered with.

I'm getting ready to see a modified Delorean here soon, once owned by Smokey Yunick. The engine block was cut in half and turbocharged. Didn't turn out too well. Belongs to a Porsche dealer now in their private collection.

[DMC5180]

The Smokey Yunick engine is an interesting piece of engineering. There were some pretty amazing claims boasted about it. You can read about it here:http://www.rexresearch.com/yunick/yunick.htm

[knightjp]

The Smokey Yunick engine is an interesting piece of engineering. There were some pretty amazing claims boasted about it. You can read about it here:http://www.rexresearch.com/yunick/yunick.htm
Those who aren't gear-heads, wouldn't know who that is... but he's a legend in more ways that one.
Say the name Smokey Yunick to a NASCAR fan or a hot-rodder, and see the reaction. Truth be told, he's kinda like the Steve Jobs of the engineering world... :) There just won't be another one like him...

[knightjp]

IMO you can count the number of successful DMC engine conversions (successful meaning they actually run and drive, with functional air conditioning and at least as much reliablity as a decently-maintained stock DeLorean) on one hand.

Dave S (engine swap skeptic)

Let's face it. An engine swap on a Delorean isn't as easy as you see these Hot-rodders doing it on TV or in garages all over. This isn't some front engined, rear wheel drive car. Its a rear engined, rear wheel drive car with unique attributes. Its got the engine and transmission from a Renault Alpine A310, backbone chassis from Lotus, etc...

So its not easy, but not impossible. It is possible to combine a unique car, engine, etc.. but there are going to be problems to solve. I like how Stacey David says it in his show Gearz.. "When you combine a unique car, engine and suspension on a project, you're gonna have some problems and will need to get around them. The trick is not to build it cheaply and quickly, but to take the time to over-engineer it well enough so that you can enjoy it; it won't be breaking on you all the time."

There are successful engine swaps by the dozens done to various cars, whatever make or model. I've seen LS1 engines going into Porsche 911s; despite how awesome its Flat 6 is. I'm sure there are successful Delorean swaps as well still running in perfect condition.
Doing an engine swap on a Delorean is nothing short of a re-engineering exercise IMO


http://www.tunersgroup.com/images/gallery/gallery443.jpeg
Best of luck.
This is a pic of a Subaru engine isn't it??

[Massaku]

The plan for mine is to swap in an all aluminum Pontiac V8 from butler performance when I finally retire the D from daily driver status... for me it would be the ultimate engine.

Pontiac engines are awesome because of the fact they are extremely smooth and quiet in daily operation but will easily generate respectable power numbers without sacrificing drive-ability. The butler aluminum engine is sweet because the block only weighs 138lbs and is built to withstand 2500hp and 2100trq. The best combo for the Delorean would probably be the butler aluminum block with a forged aluminum 400ci rotating assembly. A mild cam and Edelbrock aluminum round port heads would yield VERY smooth operation and very healthy performance numbers while keeping weight low. This setup would be costly but you could have the awesome roar of a V8 while not drastically altering the weight distribution of the stock car.

Does anybody know what the dry weight of the PRV is?

[knightjp]

The plan for mine is to swap in an all aluminum Pontiac V8 from butler performance when I finally retire the D from daily driver status... for me it would be the ultimate engine.
I take it that this Pontiac V8 is different from the SBCs and LS engines... I know the last few Pontiacs were just rebadged Holdens and the last Firebird was using a LS engine.
So I'm guessing this engine is from the time when GMs brands made their own...

[Massaku]

I take it that this Pontiac V8 is different from the SBCs and LS engines... I know the last few Pontiacs were just rebadged Holdens and the last Firebird was using a LS engine.
So I'm guessing this engine is from the time when GMs brands made their own...

Yes Pontiac used to produce their own engines "back in the day" along with Buick, Olds and other various GM products. The latest Gen of GTO was based off of the Holden Manaro and I believe 1998-2002 Trans ams used the LS-1. The last "traditional" Pontiac V8 left the plant in 1978 and the last one was sold in 1979. The original engines were great but were rather heavy weighing 600+ pounds for a complete engine. The Butler aluminum engine is based off of the original Pontiac 400 but weighs MUCH less than the original. Also the connection that JZD had to pontiac would make it just that much cooler.

[Chris Burns]

The Smokey Yunick Delorean looked great! She is VIN 1585 with 3k miles. The engine that is currently in her is not the original engine. It's a turbocharged racing motor. The original engine is on the shelf at the museum. I wasn't susposed to take any pics, but I snapped a pic when no one was looking. I was so lucky to see this car since it's in private hands.:smile:

[dvonk]

haha, sneaky! :paranoid:

thanks for sharing the pic!

[Chris Burns]

No problem! That's what I'm here for.:tongue2:

The exhaust on the car is very strange. It runs from the top and snakes down and out the rear. The AC compressor is on the very bottom. The car is in excellent shape and the frame looked flawless.

[DMC5180]

What museum is it at? Kinda looks like Don Garlits. They have a Smokey Yunick Tribute Garage set up there. To bad you didn't get a quick pic of the Adiabatic Engine. I've only seen it in the car.

[Chris Burns]

It's in a private museum in Jacksonville Fl with a bunch of high dollar cars. When Smokey passed away in 2001 his son donated the car to the musuem. It was at the 2006 Amelia Island Concours and at DMC Open House 2007 (hasn't been out since). The mechanic in charge said to call him and when they take Delorean out next they will let me know:rock_on:

[knightjp]

Was walking past a Porsche 911 the other day and it seems the engine bay is rather small too so I'm almost sure that a Porsche Flat 6 is a small unit & can fit into the Delorean. However, I could be wrong.

I wonder what the dimensions are of both the Porsche Flat 6 and the Subaru Flat 6 engines. Does anyone know???

[dmc6960]

I wonder what the dimensions are of both the Porsche Flat 6 and the Subaru Flat 6 engines. Does anyone know???

This is a DeLorean forum. The Porsche and Subaru forums would be better suited to answer your question.

[delornut]

Those who aren't gear-heads, wouldn't know who that is... but he's a legend in more ways that one.
Say the name Smokey Yunick to a NASCAR fan or a hot-rodder, and see the reaction. Truth be told, he's kinda like the Steve Jobs of the engineering world... :) There just won't be another one like him...

Smokey's autobiography was done as an audio book and was read by John DeLorean who was a close friend. Don't know if it's still available.

Bruce Benson

[Jeff K]

TC, all this conjecture is fun and interesting. If you are really serious, just get a 5 year old Corvette Z06 and save a ton of time, effort and money.

[living_the_dream]

why not just put a turbocharged PRV in it or put that supercharger that DMC is doing now? That way you don't jack up frame and you get the power you wanted.

[tgraham]

I was so lucky to see this car since it's in private hands.

The Smokey Yunick car was at a DMC Open House event in either 2005 or 2007... I think. Surely someone has a photo of the engine. I probably have one somewhere...

Travis

[Nicholas R]

why not just put a turbocharged PRV in it or put that supercharger that DMC is doing now? That way you don't jack up frame and you get the power you wanted.

Because even that barely gets you to the 200hp mark. I'm pretty sure this thread is shooting for 300hp minimum. Plus $$$.

[Chris Burns]

The Smokey Yunick car was at a DMC Open House event in either 2005 or 2007... I think. Surely someone has a photo of the engine. I probably have one somewhere...

Travis

Here is a picture of the Smokey Yunick engine. Hopefully I will be seeing this Delorean again soon and will be getting better pictures of it!

[Nicholas R]

Here is a picture of the Smokey Yunick engine. Hopefully I will be seeing this Delorean again soon and will be getting better pictures of it!

Any idea what that motor is?

[knightjp]

Here is a picture of the Smokey Yunick engine. Hopefully I will be seeing this Delorean again soon and will be getting better pictures of it!

Awesome pic, thanks for sharing..


Because even that barely gets you to the 200hp mark. I'm pretty sure this thread is shooting for 300hp minimum. Plus $$$.
Turbocharging the stock engine gets you close, but some amazing achievements have been made with the 3.0L PRV V6 engine. Most would consider upgrading their PRVs to that and then turbocharging it. Personally I see that as a decent and calculated way to go. But I do have respect for the ones who dare to think out of the box, like me. ;)

This thread is about people who dare to be different no matter what others think.... :)

[congerz83]

This is a DeLorean forum.

Wow! Thank you for that beneficial confirmation!:thumbup:

[Chris Burns]

Any idea what that motor is?

Not sure what it was based off of. The guy in charge of the car said it was a custom made engine built by Smokey.

[knightjp]

Not sure what it was based off of. The guy in charge of the car said it was a custom made engine built by Smokey.
Its an Adiabatic Engine. Information on it here... http://www.rexresearch.com/yunick/yunick.htm

[DMCVegas]

Any idea what that motor is?

I believe it's a Buick V6 that was cut in half to only have 3 cylinders. He was a big fan of that engine for chopping.

[living_the_dream]

You can get over 250 hp with the 3.0 liter engine easy with a turbo. Get Martin to make you a engine. 0-60 in under 6 seconds probably closer to 5. Isn't that fast enough??? That one guy from new York is getting 270 hp to the wheels. I bet his 0-60 time is under 5 seconds.

[knightjp]

Any idea what that motor is?
Its been mentioned quite a few times...
Its an Adiabatic Engine. Information on it here... http://www.rexresearch.com/yunick/yunick.htm

[Chris Burns]

The Smokey Delorean is in beautiful condition (even the frame is rust free!). I think the car was only driven a few times for experimental reasons and left in Smokey's garage in Daytona for years. My Delorean bud in Jacksonville is friends with the owners of the Smokey Delorean and said the car runs rough.

Judging by the info I read the engine has around 156hp and gets 40mpg.

[knightjp]

Smokey's engine is an engineering marvel. We all know that, but there are posts online attempt to disprove the claims based on melting points for steel, etc... I don't care about that. Smokey knew what he was doing when he built that engine and if he said it could do what it could do, that's good enough for me.

I'm right now I'm debating within myself about the Porsche Flat 6 and the Rotary engines.
So far I can work out that the Rotary engine doesn't produce enough torque at low revs and does use up quite a bit of fuel for its size, but its an extremely smooth & reliable engine which has other merits as well. Rumors of the 16X from Mazda have been floating around, but there isn't any idea when it will come out.
The Porsche Flat 6 is a tried and true well balanced engine that has proved to be reliable as well. It has a great torque band and good amount of power for its size.

The problem is that its easy to find an article on the Rotary engine's faults and merits, but nothing so far on the advantages and disadvantages of the Flat 6. If anyone comes across an article, please let me know.

[The_Reverend]

Transmission from a Porsche 996


Is that the transmission used in that video with the Mazda 20B motor? What's up with that noise it makes when it shifts?

If I was to swap the engine, I'd stick with what I know, a Honda engine.

J32A2 V6 Swap.

http://www.k20a.org/upload/100_2856C.jpg

http://www.automotive-illustrations.com/img/Honda-Acura/Odyssey-v6.jpg

[knightjp]

Is that the transmission used in that video with the Mazda 20B motor? What's up with that noise it makes when it shifts?

If I was to swap the engine, I'd stick with what I know, a Honda engine.

J32A2 V6 Swap.



Honda engines are excellent engines. However not the torquiest engines. Most of the power comes in at high RPM levels... What are power and torque figures of the J32A2 V6???

[The_Reverend]

Honda engines are excellent engines. However not the torquiest engines. Most of the power comes in at high RPM levels... What are power and torque figures of the J32A2 V6???

Google is your friend ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_J_engine

260 hp (194 kW) @ 6200 rpm and 232 lb·ft (315 N·m) @ 3500-5500 rpm

IMHO. Great motor for the deLorean. Has a rev limit of 7200 RPM. Most people confuse the lack of torque on Honda engines because of the high rev limits, this particular motor is a bit of an exception.

[knightjp]

Google is your friend ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_J_engine

260 hp (194 kW) @ 6200 rpm and 232 lb·ft (315 N·m) @ 3500-5500 rpm

IMHO. Great motor for the deLorean. Has a rev limit of 7200 RPM. Most people confuse the lack of torque on Honda engines because of the high rev limits, this particular motor is a bit of an exception.

When is comes to bulletproof reliability and good fuel economy, nothing comes close to a Japanese engine and Honda is no exception.
Sorry guys. But that's the truth. Even a SBC has issues now and then.

It actually surprises me that John Delorean never thought of a Japanese engine for the Delorean in the first place. Maybe with the exception of the Wankel units, nothing from Japan caught his interest. Considering he might have been able to get the engines cheaper and with them being more reliable, produce good amounts of power and easy units to work on, it would have been a good choice. But I guess he was trying to build an exotic sports car and part of the flavor comes with an exotic engine.
I guess when the Citroen engine deal fell through, he needed an engine and transmission quickly and the Alpine A310's drive train was a perfect fit.

[Farrar]

It actually surprises me that John Delorean never thought of a Japanese engine for the Delorean in the first place.

Would have been expensive to haul all of those engines to the UK for installation. France is a lot closer to N Ireland than Japan.

[sean]

Would have been expensive to haul all of those engines to the UK for installation. France is a lot closer to N Ireland than Japan.

I cant recall the American perception of Japan in the late '70s but it might have also had something to do with them not getting the nod especially when you consider Japan was mostly pushing out economical 4cyl engines. Sure Proto had a 4cyl installed but I cant imagine JZD would have ever settled for a small 4cyl production engine, all my opinion of course.

[Farrar]

I cant imagine JZD would have ever settled for a small 4cyl production engine,

Nor can I... when he saw how the Citroën engine performed, he wanted to turbocharge it, and Citroën said "non." It took a long time for Legend to develop a turbocharging system for the PRV. DeLorean was relentlessly and continually pressed for time; I imagine if he had been able to afford it (time/money), every DMC-12 would have been turbocharged, but there was no way he could start production in 1981 if he'd decided to wait for that, and he had promised an ambitious timetable to begin with.

Just my opinion.

[opethmike]

Nor can I... when he saw how the Citroën engine performed, he wanted to turbocharge it, and Citroën said "non." It took a long time for Legend to develop a turbocharging system for the PRV. DeLorean was relentlessly and continually pressed for time; I imagine if he had been able to afford it (time/money), every DMC-12 would have been turbocharged, but there was no way he could start production in 1981 if he'd decided to wait for that, and he had promised an ambitious timetable to begin with.

Just my opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly with Farrar. I think a very interesting topic to think about is how the car would've been received had it arrived with the expected performance abilities.

[knightjp]

I agree wholeheartedly with Farrar. I think a very interesting topic to think about is how the car would've been received had it arrived with the expected performance abilities.
I did mention it would be interesting to take the Delorean back to Lotus and see what they would change. But that might cost a lot and I'm not even sure Lotus would be willing to do it. Oh wait... they did do that Lada for Top Gear.

[Chris Burns]

Speaking of which, I wonder how the DeLotus is doing (Delorean with the Lotus engine).

[knightjp]

The PRV is somewhat a complex thing... Not considerably an awesome engine, but not completely bad either.
Reading the wiki article on it, I've come to realize that it was used in so many cars. Even the Japs used it; and they make really good reliable V6 engines of their own.
Kinda makes me wonder... if the PRV was so widely used in Alpines, Volvos, Renaults & Peugeot, enough to have lap records and gr8 amounts of power, there should be some stuff that could be done to give the PRV the power without having to resort to just Turbo Kits. Alpine owners in the UK have found ways to modify the manifold to place a Holley carb on it and give the engine an extra 30BHP.. Enthusiasts of Volvos, Renaults & Peugeots should be having more similar options like that. Why not find out if any of those can fit the Delorean?

I know in the US, you guys have engine machine shops that build SBCs and SBFs with insane amounts of power using performance cams, pistons, etc... What if we were to find such parts for the PRV & build an insanely powerful engine for that...

[Farrar]

Some owners have already done this. Poke around this site some more.

[Squall67584]

The PRV is somewhat a complex thing... Not considerably an awesome engine, but not completely bad either.
Reading the wiki article on it, I've come to realize that it was used in so many cars. Even the Japs used it; and they make really good reliable V6 engines of their own.
Kinda makes me wonder... if the PRV was so widely used in Alpines, Volvos, Renaults & Peugeot, enough to have lap records and gr8 amounts of power, there should be some stuff that could be done to give the PRV the power without having to resort to just Turbo Kits. Alpine owners in the UK have found ways to modify the manifold to place a Holley carb on it and give the engine an extra 30BHP.. Enthusiasts of Volvos, Renaults & Peugeots should be having more similar options like that. Why not find out if any of those can fit the Delorean?

I know in the US, you guys have engine machine shops that build SBCs and SBFs with insane amounts of power using performance cams, pistons, etc... What if we were to find such parts for the PRV & build an insanely powerful engine for that...

Well... basically that's what vendors like DMCH and DPI have done. All of the mods that are typically done to SBCs and SBFs are the same for any engine, ie port and polished heads, aggressive cams, high compression pistons, better fuel and spark control, free flowing exhaust, and so on. From everything I've seen, you can do this to the PRV. Both the StageII and SpecII from their respective vendors have some or most of those things.

DPI for example lists port and polished heads, very aggressive camshafts, and high flow exhaust. From there, you could add high compression pistons from a Euro spec PRV, which I read somewhere on this forum that someone did (maybe they'll chime in and say what pistons they used and from where they got them.) Then add Megasquirt controled EFI and spark control like what members Spittybug and Opethmike did, and maybe add a MSD iginition module and coil for even more spark. Now, I'm not sure on exact HP numbers, but going by what DPI lists for their engine packages, you could be looking at something around 220-225hp. Then, there's also the swap to the 3.0, which some have used. I haven't seen too many performance parts for that engine, but I'm sure they're out there.

Given that horsepower number of 225 for a NA 2.85 litre V6 is pretty good, even by today's standards. Keep in mind that the larger HP numbers that are seen in some modern cars are due to technology that they've incorporated that is either impossible, or not cost effective to retroactively put on the PRV. Mainly, I'm referring to variable valve timing and direct port injection. That variable valve timing is usually what gives them such great numbers. Look at Honda's 4 cylinders. My Acura has 200hp NA, and a comparable Chevrolet with same displacement but no VVT can push 150-160hp. Usually, their stock cars need a supercharger or turbo to make 200 or more.

Now, there might have been a PRV with DOHC which could help too, but I'm sure cost for that would be through the roof.

[knightjp]

Haha... Maybe I should stick with my initial idea and just replace the PRV with a modern Porsche Flat 6 or Mazda Renesis Rotary unit. ;)

[knightjp]

10446

I wonder if anyone has ever considered an Alfa Romeo Arese V6 as an option for an engine swap. I own an Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 and the engine is pretty sweet. Simply one of the best engine ever made... They actually chromed the inlet pipes... :)

[tyb323]

10446

I wonder if anyone has ever considered an Alfa Romeo Arese V6 as an option for an engine swap. I own an Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6 and the engine is pretty sweet. Simply one of the best engine ever made... They actually chromed the inlet pipes... :)

John DeLorean was considering switching out the PRV for this engine from what I've seen in the Pennebaker doc.

[knightjp]

John DeLorean was considering switching out the PRV for this engine from what I've seen in the Pennebaker doc.
The Pennebaker Doc???
Was the Alfa V6 even around when Delorean was up and running???

[tyb323]

D. A pennebaker made a delorean documentary, where he mentions the prv is a bad choice and they want to switch to the Alfa Romeo v6, the one you mentioned. It's been in production since 76, this meeting took place in 81

[Nicholas R]

I think for the work involved it would be a lot easier to do a 3.0prv since they have similar output and the 3.0 bolts right up to the bellhousing with little modification.

[opethmike]

I think for the work involved it would be a lot easier to do a 3.0prv since they have similar output and the 3.0 bolts right up to the bellhousing with little modification.

As well as being a very established swap, with very known paths to turbo-charging.

[knightjp]

D. A pennebaker made a delorean documentary, where he mentions the prv is a bad choice and they want to switch to the Alfa Romeo v6, the one you mentioned. It's been in production since 76, this meeting took place in 81 Do u have video link???

[tyb323]

http://vimeo.com/9952635

He mentions it around 33:15

[knightjp]

http://vimeo.com/9952635

He mentions it around 33:15 Well no doubt those chromed inlet pipes would have looked cool inside a delorean

[knightjp]

While I know there is a 2JZ swap, don't think there was ever a Delorean with a Nissan RB26 swap...
Both phenominal engines... In twin turbo form, they could produce upto 600 - 700 BHP just by increasing the boost through the turbos and tuning the stock chip..

[Squall67584]

I remember when the thread concerning the 2JZ was going on back on the. com site, but I never saved any of the pics. From what I remember, the only thing between the engine and the outside air was the taillight boards. While it was an amazing feat of engineering, I'd be afraid of driving it in case of accident.

How about the Rover V8? I believe that was originally a Buick V8 and can be modded for some major power. I remember reading somewhere years ago about that being a possible swap, I think it was on DMCH's site concerning the stage II swap about 10 years ago or so. I've no idea how that swap was done or if anything had to be cut for it to fit.

[Chris Burns]

The modded Delorean to watch out for is the LS1 Delorean. I will be seeing this one at DCS! The Toyota powered one is great as well. There is one in MO with a 351 Cleveland made like a Pantera. It was converted in 1986 at a cost of 50k and driven only a few times.

Now it just sits in a private garage rotting away.:jawdrop:



Personally I'm happy with the stock car, :) but it will be interesting to see how these recent engine swaps will turn out.

[Nicholas R]

Lol, funny the 2JZ car comes up. Just spent the last 8 hours working on both my car and that car at the same time. Got the AC going in mine but still working on it in the 2JZ car. Its amazing how little I ended up having to do to get the DeLorean hoses in the LS1 compressor. I spent several hours in a junkyard on Monday trying to get assorted Toyota A/C lines and fittings to try to make something for the 2JZ car. Hoping to get it done before DCS. Also did rear wheel bearings in my car. I definitely needed them.

Also just out of curiosity, is the Rover V8 a cast iron or aluminum block?

[ramblinmike]

Aluminum heads and block......

Dreaming up your next project?

:)

[knightjp]

What about the Jaguar AJ-V8? Same all aluminum engine used in the Ford FortyNine Concept.
If ur going the V8 route, I think that and the current Mustang Engines would be the best choice for me... Or if ur really extreme, How about a 5.7 Hemi... ;)

[Dangermouse]

Lol, funny the 2JZ car comes up. Just spent the last 8 hours working on both my car and that car at the same time. Got the AC going in mine but still working on it in the 2JZ car. Its amazing how little I ended up having to do to get the DeLorean hoses in the LS1 compressor. I spent several hours in a junkyard on Monday trying to get assorted Toyota A/C lines and fittings to try to make something for the 2JZ car. Hoping to get it done before DCS. Also did rear wheel bearings in my car. I definitely needed them.
?

How did the 2JZ car survive in FL without AC? (Well more-so the driver)

[knightjp]

How did the 2JZ car survive in FL without AC? (Well more-so the driver)Good question and it deserves an answer... ;)

[EarlHickey]

Well no doubt those chromed inlet pipes would have looked cool inside a delorean

Intake runners ideally are brightly polished dead smooth for intelligent scientific reasons, not bling.

Natural rough cast is far better than painting the damned things.... pretty sure.

The other comment about variable cam timing and such....

VANOS or other types of VVT would not be an impossible mod no more than variable runner lengths including multiple butterflies and their own injectors would be. I could probably point you to a certain 61 inch engine that makes ~3hp/CID & 63ft/lbs, and is nearly as tractable as a farm tractor with power delivery being like that of an electric motor.


AND THEN......... the real pisser is that the prv is a long rod engine with pretty decent and appropriately sized ports that do not need enlarging without changing the con rod lengths........ but, I don't see any appropriately dimensioned exhausts for the prv deloreans (maybe the houston one actually is but nobody will simply post up the numbers, it does look short and fat) and long rod reversion machines do not suffer poorly designed exhausts, or over-sized intakes, well at all.

Mercedes Benz learned this lesson well and it's sad that in doing so they seemingly lost any desire to ever attempt a desmodremic engine ever again. BMW learned it the last time when they introduced the 3 and 4 liter V-8's in the mid-90's. Several others figured this out at various points in time, yet, seemingly wasted lessons for many still.

Yet I do prefer the longer ratios to the shorter ones, but, again, these beasts have their own fancy's.

And then there is the complete lack of squish in the chamber that never needs a dish piston (unless maybe contoured reliefs to induce some swirl and/or tumble), much less a retarded reverse dish piston, USA or Euro spec. I'm reasonably sure that the chamber needs semi-tubbing, very tight squish, lots of it, and flat top pistons. Mr Faulks posted as such here and I look forward to speaking with him soon to see if he's tub'd one, half-tub'd or semi-tub'd and to which directions they were biased, although it does appear reasonably obvious which way they should be tub'd.


Faulks is right that the engine needs a roller top-end and roller profiles to fully wake up (and I'll add to reduce part throttle pumping losses with the minimal amount of energy consumed to spin the assembly) although I highly suspect several have been going at this engine as if it had a 1.6:1 rod ratio with their tuning approaches with respect to cam timing and center-lines. Just a guess based on the differences in limited data I've seen between the secret mystics results and those I've seen with published specs having very nice, fat and flat torque curves.

I have the rockers and will have two freshly ground billet bumpsticks in the near future.



Ive been looking closely at making a DOHC pent roof head bolt onto the prv block and being very pragmatic, this idea is more appealing to me than even a fully rollerized stock head and should bring it into the realm of many 10-15 year old thoroughbred engines with very little additional effort needed, well at least not if one is married to the notion of purist type originality. A bucket shim DOHC cam head of decent design will make the same, or better numbers than a SOCH of more optimal design than the prv, with 20 degrees less duration and much less left, while providing the ability to change center-lines.

I'll spend a bit more time in the local parts houses comparing some head gaskets before trekking back out to the not so local boneyards. Has anyone adapted a DOHC pent roof top end to one of these yet?

After studying the PRV 24V head, I've no interest in owning one at any price, there are too many far better designs available for dirt cheap and bore OD's and center-lines are far from proprietary.

[Nicholas R]

How did the 2JZ car survive in FL without AC? (Well more-so the driver)

Haha, very good question. Perhaps it's part of the reason why it was sold and sent to Ohio. My understanding is that Ed was going to work on the A/C but never got around to it. Cliff (current owner) is licensed with R-12 and R-134a and has all the equipment necessary to charge and balance pretty much any A/C system. I think they just made a deal and considered the fact that the A/C wasn't finished yet. We're finally getting to it now.

[Chris Burns]

I saw the Toyota powered Delorean before it was sold to Cliff. I kept thinking at the time, (before I saw the engine), this is not a stock Delorean! Sounded great!! Can't wait to see it again at DCS.

Here's a pic I took of it in 2010 in Orlando.

[EarlHickey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGmV5RUm628

This is more like what a prv should sound like if properly tuned..... much more like this than a big American V-8. I think even higher pitched and a bit more shrill on full song would probably be the results of one tuned absolutely taut and crisp.

[knightjp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGmV5RUm628

This is more like what a prv should sound like if properly tuned..... much more like this than a big American V-8. I think even higher pitched and a bit more shrill on full song would probably be the results of one tuned absolutely taut and crisp.
That is an Alfa Arese V6... I own a 156 with that engine. Its beautiful engine. One of the best ever made, but its high maintenance. Its got DOHC. From what I know about engines, DOHC produce more power that SOHC.
I know that the PRV did have a DOHC engine.. Only one built for the 24hrs LeMans race...

[knightjp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFEqClpt5ck

[EarlHickey]

I don't recall if this is the same engine with goofy and asinine valve train but the point is it's exhaust note is more in the ball park as it's exhaust system is much more likely to be appropriate for it as opposed to what I've seen and heard on the dmc's.... which appear more appropriate for extremely high revving large displacement F1 or NHRA top fuel engines.

Now if I'm wrong about any of the designs out there, so be it, however, I've asked more than once for the basic dimensions.

I won't be sharing any of my project pix or specifics with this group since it would appear that the moderation staff is quite concerned I may post something truthful somebody may not like.

[Example Redacted]

So, you won't be seeing what my stainless header for a street prv looks like but Ill tell you it's loooong, skinny and runs much tighter collectors and exit pipes than any Ive seen on anyone's dmc and it will scream like a pair of LSR big bore tridents.

They wont sound anything like a deep and throaty v8....


Btw.... I read about the DOHC Peugeot or Renault Lemans effort. 253 mph record and a completely destroyed engine.


And an aside....The most suitable head graft Ive found so far involves cutting a chamber off a head and the results would be downdraft ports, all the bells and whistles with no reason why the prv wouldn't make the same staggering power numbers as the donor engine, if not better.


That is an Alfa Arese V6... I own a 156 with that engine. Its beautiful engine. One of the best ever made, but its high maintenance. Its got DOHC. From what I know about engines, DOHC produce more power that SOHC.
I know that the PRV did have a DOHC engine.. Only one built for the 24hrs LeMans race...

[EarlHickey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFEqClpt5ck


Did I miss something aside from it not being able to get out of it's own way?

I think if that were my car with that claim, I'd back that sad video up with a run on the salt or any number of timed standing mile runs.

Either are far gentler on the drive-line of a scarce vehicle that an all out quarter mile thrashing.

I'm pretty sure that fuel rail is not a hard one to clean with the factory procedure being to block off the supply and return side, tap into the rail and run it on a pressurized tank of effective crud cleaning and highly doped jizz.

I certainly cured many of them that way in less than the absurdly short factory flat rate time allotted.

Heck, they even give you an easy access schrader port to screw onto with even AC hoses if you don't have the proper equipment.

Maybe cali pump fuel is even worse than the crap here.

Maybe that one has some hard core Corky Bell fuel rail that makes easy cleaning impossible, although I doubt such a mean part exists.

Nice install and nice shop just the same. I am sure when that car is right, it's loads of fun.

[EarlHickey]

http://www.allpar.com/photos/bios/weertman/big-block-V8.gif

What does this have that the prv has absolutely none?

http://www.allpar.com/photos/dodge/1960/engines/383.gif

What does this induction setup have in common with the stock CIS setup on the prv?
Why did they do this?

http://www.allpar.com/photos/dodge/1960/engines/361-wedge.jpg

This has LOTS of what the prv is missing and the prv will never be anything more than a tarted up pig without it.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/b-engines.html



http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/images/gif/crossr5.gif

Dang, even Chevy did it for an engine that shares at least one commonality with the mighty Mopar and prv engine.

http://www.camaro-untoldsecrets.com/articles/crossram.htm

The torque curves from the better of these is most impressive with several showing 100% + VE from John Deere ranges all the way past 5000 rpm.


Here is what is wrong wrong wrong.........for starters

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/crazyedfsu/3.0L001.jpg


http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm

[EarlHickey]

Big bore...... whateva...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/crazyedfsu/set.jpg

looks like there is room for a half an inch of additional stroke, real easy like and maybe even more

although that and some big bore would leave room to cure what the prv completely lacks

[DCUK Martin]

Huh :umm:

Yes people have done 3.2 litre cranks but 93mm bore is all you're going to get.

Most of your images above are invisible to me, just some message about visiting allpar.com

[EarlHickey]

Huh :umm:

Yes people have done 3.2 litre cranks but 93mm bore is all you're going to get.

Most of your images above are invisible to me, just some message about visiting allpar.com

Click the link and look at the cross ram stuff, especially the long spaghetti setup for the 383 B-range engine.
Compare internal geometry at the victory link.

Why is 93mm the bore limit? I think I read it once and likely forgot.


I think the engine needs lots more stroke although an additional 2mm of bore would give just a tiny bit more room to fix the chamber. Can it swing 13mm additional stroke? More? Less? Stroked out to 3.5 liters, with a "n" of 1.8 or so, would be just about right.


What are the limiting constraints at what additional amounts of stroke? There appears to be nearly a mile of compression height at the piston and really good rods can be fitted to that crank that are very svelte on the big ends.

BTW, are any of the even or odd fire cranks nitrided or have any other conditions that would make welding them not such a good idea?


Pray tell, why ever has anyone ever paid money to fit reverse dished pistons in a prv, for any reason? It's mind boggling to me really. Crazy that any factory would use them even for a low compression EPA appeasing sick puppy. It sure seems that if nothing else, they had to make the EPA trick tedious and exceedingly more difficult.

Those are just about tantamount to putting great ports and almost chamber layout in a side valve arrangement.

[MFaulks]

I think you will find those are pistons from John Lane for forced induction i.e. a reduction in static compression ratio to allow higher over pressure from forced induction. The land areas are pretty in effective however as you have noted as they don't form any quench / squish with the chamber. I must admit I prefer flat tops, or specifically shaped to put the compressed combustion space over to where ionisation will occur the fastest.

The odd fire crank isn't really up to it (welding) I don't think - I have had failures, but to give you some idea it's about 2.2 kg lighter than the 2.5lt 63mm stroke even-fire crank, and about 3kg lighter than the 73mm stroke even-fire; accepting there are differences (3ltr is counter balanced) but they are roughly the same volume of material. There are no special treatments as I remember. There would obviously be some advantage to the odd-fire crank if it was a more robust and durable item from the point of view of bearing diameter, oil loading (shear velocity) and frictional losses. I think for an ultimate high rpm application a steel odd-fire crank would be the way to go. My thoughts only though :-)

Martin

[dvonk]

Why is 93mm the bore limit? I think I read it once and likely forgot.

i guess thats some of your legendary "lost tuning knowledge" (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3084-Ask-David-and-Farrar-Technical-Questions-and-Advice-About-Carbureting-a-DeLorean&p=54360&viewfull=1#post54360):


...What I can assure you is that it's very likely I've forgotten more about tuning engines than you'll ever know...

quantity of knowledge is irrelevant if it cannot be retained... :evilgrin:

[DCUK Martin]

93mm is the practical limit due to the space between the cylinders - you could maybe shave another mm by running thinner liner walls.

3 litre PRVs have 93mm bore. 2.8 and 2.5 turbos have 91mm bore. Ye Olde odd fires from the days of yore (pre DMC) have an 88mm bore.

[EarlHickey]

i guess thats some of your legendary "lost tuning knowledge" (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3084-Ask-David-and-Farrar-Technical-Questions-and-Advice-About-Carbureting-a-DeLorean&p=54360&viewfull=1#post54360):

quantity of knowledge is irrelevant if it cannot be retained... :evilgrin:

Your daddy should be proud to have spawned such a useful creature and the moderators should be as well for allowing such useless and counter-productive replies in information sharing threads. Perhaps you've never looked objectively, but, I have and a DMC owner using the search feature must wade though miles of such irrelevant and useless sheeeat just to get to possibly reasonable answers, which many times, are made far less valuable by even "experts" being unable to agree over what should be simple matters and even extends over into matters of vehicle safety. Great? Impressive? I think not.

[EarlHickey]

I think you will find those are pistons from John Lane for forced induction i.e. a reduction in static compression ratio to allow higher over pressure from forced induction. The land areas are pretty in effective however as you have noted as they don't form any quench / squish with the chamber. I must admit I prefer flat tops, or specifically shaped to put the compressed combustion space over to where ionisation will occur the fastest.

The odd fire crank isn't really up to it (welding) I don't think - I have had failures, but to give you some idea it's about 2.2 kg lighter than the 2.5lt 63mm stroke even-fire crank, and about 3kg lighter than the 73mm stroke even-fire; accepting there are differences (3ltr is counter balanced) but they are roughly the same volume of material. There are no special treatments as I remember. There would obviously be some advantage to the odd-fire crank if it was a more robust and durable item from the point of view of bearing diameter, oil loading (shear velocity) and frictional losses. I think for an ultimate high rpm application a steel odd-fire crank would be the way to go. My thoughts only though :-)

Martin

You are correct in that I do find it quite peculiar that an actual near zero decking dish or flat-tap piston wouldn't be used instead of a reverse dish. I don't know where the outer flats of the higher CR pop-ups actually deck, but, I'd want them really snug. I'm just about left to assume it's been repeatedly done that way actually believing the original designers must have had god reasons for the reverse dish which decks quite negatively, much in a similar manner that Turner's 1930's design was worshiped, revered and flailed upon, years after all it's insurmountable design weakness had been clearly revealed.

I do thank you for sharing your hard earned and learned knowledge with this engine and your efforts with force feeding it sure do appear to be impressive.
I've no doubt that you are quite driven and passionate about getting satisfying results from it.

Hypothetically and with no respect to the stock parts limitations or likely limitations , what is the largest stroke that can swing in the prv block using stock rods, even fire and odd fire?
At this point, do the rods foul first? If not, what does foul first.

If I may address the other gentleman from the United Kingdom at the same time, thank you and what is the liner wall thickness at the 93mm bore and what is the max OD liner that can be stuffed in the block?
Do you suspect or know if better material might be used to good advantage for the liners which might prove durable being bored perhaps to 95mm?
As I typed earlier, and my meaning was likely not clear, I'm not so much concerned with additional bore area, although I might be if I were married to the idea of the prv head.



My objective is getting a good chamber in and on a prv block with displacement a bit better optimized for it's internal geometry. I am not seeing rev ranges in the stratosphere, but instead, a tuned and ice cold carburetor induction which contains the second pulse, along with all inertial effects, complimented by an exhaust that works with it to produce a very fat, long and flat torque curve with acceptable HP numbers for the amount of fuel consumed. I'm ok with the odd fire and necessary twin exhaust exits although I'd prefer even fire having both headers intelligently merged to further this cause. To do so with the odd fire would mean a jumble of stainless mambas which would repel me from the engine bay for simple even service even though I am not bound by the constraints of the lower deck cover and will not use it at all. I'll not have my engine left exposed to, and unprotected from, the open skies.

I'm not married to the OEM designs as far as it's engine with ancillaries or it less than performance and efficiency oriented air handling.

Tentatively, I'm thinking an engine which performs as stated and sonically chokes somewhere around or under 7500 rpm, maybe even slightly under 7000. Too soon to say for sure.
Nothing lofty or pie in the sky in the least! I simply want something useful and pleasant that isn't pumping wasted utilized fuel beyond the bell mouths or past the collectors.
Sounds reasonable doesn't it?

To those ends, IF the prv head were to be used, I'm about certain it would be wise to trade off a bit of flow for drastic improvements in the chamber. I'm reasonably sure this would hold true for NA or force fed applications.

I'll send you contact info and we can discuss billet bumpsticks. There seems no shortage of idle and amazing production equipment here as much of the manufacturing base has been moved to other parts of the world. However, the postal bandits' international rates and what the vat/duties guys do on your end, may take any joy out of such an endeavor. I haven't been bitten with the forced induction bug for this car, but, I'd be more than happy to hook you up with capable and willing hands that could very well prove invaluable towards furthering your mighty force fed prv's.


Just a an aside, the DMC and Volvo heads/intake ports? seem to differ slightly from the other prv's in that the injector is seated in the head while they are sans the port roof trench that others have. They also have a large relief on the port floor, at the flange, to ease the ingress into the port from the very flat bottomed tuned runners. I don't know if the injector nozzle is actually closer to the DMC/Volvo valve head, although it would seem it must be if the manifolds are all interchangeable. I suspect you likely know this and weren't concerned in splitting hairs when sharing port size and volume info, I just wanted to clarify that for any future readers. It is possible the variation could make a difference for somebody's future effort. If I am mistaken, I gladly stand corrected and will defer to your vast experience with this engine.

Thank you both and have a good day.

[Ron]

OK...tit for tat....let's stay on topic guys.

Take it to PM if you must continue. Similar posts in the future will be deleted.

[EarlHickey]

OK...tit for tat....let's stay on topic guys.

Take it to PM if you must continue. Similar posts in the future will be deleted.

I have absolutely no objections to the removal of any off topic posts or personal attacks, in this entire thread, including this one, so perhaps, and just maybe, it could prove useful to others.

In fact, it would be appreciated if you did with this one and several others that have good information buried in similar garbage.

[EarlHickey]

Any thoughts other than it sounding like an excited model t while it idles?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgs4bpfAVYQ

[c.t.coburn]

When is comes to bulletproof reliability and good fuel economy, nothing comes close to a Japanese engine and Honda is no exception.
Sorry guys. But that's the truth. Even a SBC has issues now and then.

It actually surprises me that John Delorean never thought of a Japanese engine for the Delorean in the first place. Maybe with the exception of the Wankel units, nothing from Japan caught his interest. Considering he might have been able to get the engines cheaper and with them being more reliable, produce good amounts of power and easy units to work on, it would have been a good choice. But I guess he was trying to build an exotic sports car and part of the flavor comes with an exotic engine.
I guess when the Citroen engine deal fell through, he needed an engine and transmission quickly and the Alpine A310's drive train was a perfect fit.

from what I've read Renault financed the engines (and transmissions? I'd presume) so THAT was the deciding factor.

the shame is that no engineering work was done (or they were too pressed for time) to preserve Euro. spec horsepower figures (approx. ?? 150+ ??) certainly would have been a different car.

from the same era Daihatsu (which Delorean had business discussions with) installed a "tiny" turbocharger in the Charade!!?? that didn't even require an intercooler, instead of the Legend twin turbo setup (which was snapping transmissions and blowing up engines) maybe they should've tried Daihatsu's tack? say 10 -15hp boost?

if you check out Tamir's Delorean site he's got an article about Grumman doing work on the prototype cars, guess only their work on the door opening mechanicals was used? they talked about a composite roof in the article, had Grumman been more involved perhaps some of the ERM process could have actually been used? or some variant? at the very least maybe they wouldn't have used a 500-lb. steel chassis? 2,300 - 2,400 lb. car? maybe someone could try a chassis swap!

of course Colin Chapman was similar to JZD and was winning at grand prix at the time so he must have looked like a better bet than boring old Grumman engineers.

[knightjp]

from what I've read Renault financed the engines (and transmissions? I'd presume) so THAT was the deciding factor.

From what I've read, they entered negotiations with Renault 'cuz they were building the Alpine A310 at the time. There was talk of an Alfa Arese V6 too..
But since the Alpine was a pretty fast rear engined sports car, exactly what Delorean wanted his car to be, Renault was a better business move in terms of time and cost. That way, they could not just use the engine, but also the transmission, etc as well.



of course Colin Chapman was similar to JZD and was winning at grand prix at the time so he must have looked like a better bet than boring old Grumman engineers.
By Grumman, do you mean the Northrop Grumman? The same guys that built the F-14 Tomcat and the B2 bomber? Wow...

But anyways, I wouldn't count Chapman out. He was a pretty big name. Considering his light weight sportscars were real handlers and were defeating major cooperations on race track would have sounded like an awesome thing for Delorean.. Remember he wanted his car to handle well.

[c.t.coburn]

From what I've read, they entered negotiations with Renault 'cuz they were building the Alpine A310 at the time. There was talk of an Alfa Arese V6 too..
But since the Alpine was a pretty fast rear engined sports car, exactly what Delorean wanted his car to be, Renault was a better business move in terms of time and cost. That way, they could not just use the engine, but also the transmission, etc as well.


By Grumman, do you mean the Northrop Grumman? The same guys that built the F-14 Tomcat and the B2 bomber? Wow...

But anyways, I wouldn't count Chapman out. He was a pretty big name. Considering his light weight sportscars were real handlers and were defeating major cooperations on race track would have sounded like an awesome thing for Delorean.. Remember he wanted his car to handle well.

that's the Grumman, at the time ('78-79) they were looking to enter other markets (bought Flxible bus , a disaster) and built the post office's delivery vehicle (guess that turned out better, it was one of the largest contracts awarded at the time).

they designed the torsion bar that opens the gull wing doors. article on Tamir's Delorean site relates that they had designed a composite roof as a possibility for the car? just speculating on how the car might have been different, Mike Loasby stated the prototype could have been developed just as easily as adapting Lotus methods to a (more) mass produced vehicle.

[knightjp]

that's the Grumman, at the time ('78-79) they were looking to enter other markets (bought Flxible bus , a disaster) and built the post office's delivery vehicle (guess that turned out better, it was one of the largest contracts awarded at the time).

they designed the torsion bar that opens the gull wing doors. article on Tamir's Delorean site relates that they had designed a composite roof as a possibility for the car? just speculating on how the car might have been different, Mike Loasby stated the prototype could have been developed just as easily as adapting Lotus methods to a (more) mass produced vehicle.
Pretty much looks like Delorean could've had all the help he wanted to build his car, provided the funding and the time was given to him...

[Exolis]

Did a quick search but didn't find anything, so apologies in advanced. But has anyone seen/heard/considered doing a Turbo Diesel? My Girlfriend has a 99 Beetle and her dad has a new TDI 2.0 Passat with the Automatic-Manual Dual Clutch thing and they both get insane amount of Fuel Efficiency and the Passat has great performance as well. So figured a Diesel in a DeLorean would be a neat idea for a swap.

The Nissan swap is neat, I wouldn't mind doing something like that if I can get a nice discount from work. Though I one day hope to be able to salvage or buy parts from the Nissan Leaf for an Electric DeLorean. I've always thought the idea of an electric DeLorean would be awesome from the few custom builds I've seen, however doing my own custom one would seem pointless now with something with advanced engineering with systems like the Leaf. The one delorean.com is doing also seems great, but haven't seen/heard anything about a DIY Kit to convert existing ones.

Also, does anyone know where one would go for Engine/kits/supporting electronics for such things like a Diesel or specific engine? (not the typical Summit racing block engines).

[knightjp]

Did a quick search but didn't find anything, so apologies in advanced. But has anyone seen/heard/considered doing a Turbo Diesel? My Girlfriend has a 99 Beetle and her dad has a new TDI 2.0 Passat with the Automatic-Manual Dual Clutch thing and they both get insane amount of Fuel Efficiency and the Passat has great performance as well. So figured a Diesel in a DeLorean would be a neat idea for a swap.

The Nissan swap is neat, I wouldn't mind doing something like that if I can get a nice discount from work. Though I one day hope to be able to salvage or buy parts from the Nissan Leaf for an Electric DeLorean. I've always thought the idea of an electric DeLorean would be awesome from the few custom builds I've seen, however doing my own custom one would seem pointless now with something with advanced engineering with systems like the Leaf. The one delorean.com is doing also seems great, but haven't seen/heard anything about a DIY Kit to convert existing ones.

Also, does anyone know where one would go for Engine/kits/supporting electronics for such things like a Diesel or specific engine? (not the typical Summit racing block engines).
The Nissan Leaf is a great idea for a car but not necessarily a great car. Now someone might think I'm completely bonkers but that's the truth. Perhaps its the inconvenience of time it takes to recharge, etc.. If I wanted to make the Delorean Electric, I'd turn to Delorean's enemy and previous employer, GM..
The Chevrolet Volt is frankly the best idea. Instead of being a hybrid like the Prius, the volt is a completely electric car, except it isn't. It's got a petrol engine which only comes on, to provide power to the motor & charge the battery; in no way does the petrol engine drive the wheels..

[Exolis]

The Nissan Leaf is a great idea for a car but not necessarily a great car. Now someone might think I'm completely bonkers but that's the truth. Perhaps its the inconvenience of time it takes to recharge, etc.. If I wanted to make the Delorean Electric, I'd turn to Delorean's enemy and previous employer, GM..
The Chevrolet Volt is frankly the best idea. Instead of being a hybrid like the Prius, the volt is a completely electric car, except it isn't. It's got a petrol engine which only comes on, to provide power to the motor & charge the battery; in no way does the petrol engine drive the wheels..

I like the Leaf, had one for 2 weekends and it drives great and get where I wanted to without worry. Also with the Navi system you can see where there are Charging Stations at. Luckily for me, my work place has a Quick Charger along with quite a few 240V Charging stations. So it would be easy and practical for me at least.

The Volt on the otherhand, while a good concept, it lacks in performance. From what I've seen, the Volt gets about 35 City and 40 HWY and I don't know if that includes using HVAC with that, when the generator is running. Had they decided to use a Diesel instead, they could of got a lot higher performance.

[knightjp]

I like the Leaf, had one for 2 weekends and it drives great and get where I wanted to without worry. Also with the Navi system you can see where there are Charging Stations at. Luckily for me, my work place has a Quick Charger along with quite a few 240V Charging stations. So it would be easy and practical for me at least.

LOL.. U just proved my point. For the Leaf to be a viable alternative, doesn't depend on the manufacturer, but on the Government. Its infrastructure that required. Ur experience with it is good, 'cuz your government is investing in it; but that too certain States.


The Volt on the otherhand, while a good concept, it lacks in performance. From what I've seen, the Volt gets about 35 City and 40 HWY and I don't know if that includes using HVAC with that, when the generator is running. Had they decided to use a Diesel instead, they could of got a lot higher performance.
It wouldn't make much of difference to the Volt if the engine was a diesel. As I said before, the engine only runs to provide power to the motor and charge the battery. From what I've read, the concept will appeal to those who drive long distances and are very far from the nearest charging point. Also I've read that the performance figures are almost identical to the Leaf. Maybe it lacks the performance due to the fact that its lugging a petrol engine everywhere, whereas the Leaf doesn't. That extra weight has to count for something in the performance loss.
Still for whatever the reason, I still put my money on the Volt's drivetrain. For now, its the best of both worlds.

[Exolis]

LOL.. U just proved my point. For the Leaf to be a viable alternative, doesn't depend on the manufacturer, but on the Government. Its infrastructure that required. Ur experience with it is good, 'cuz your government is investing in it; but that too certain States.


It wouldn't make much of difference to the Volt if the engine was a diesel. As I said before, the engine only runs to provide power to the motor and charge the battery. From what I've read, the concept will appeal to those who drive long distances and are very far from the nearest charging point. Also I've read that the performance figures are almost identical to the Leaf. Maybe it lacks the performance due to the fact that its lugging a petrol engine everywhere, whereas the Leaf doesn't. That extra weight has to count for something in the performance loss.
Still for whatever the reason, I still put my money on the Volt's drivetrain. For now, its the best of both worlds.

The government is helping out with a boost of support, but it's not forcing people to put up charging stations. Working for Nissan at the Tech Center, we are doing work with the Leaf so it's natural that we have charging stations. :P These same charging stations are also used for the Volt, MiEV and other future EVs. ( http://green.autoblog.com/2010/11/01/what-is-evse-its-electric-vehicle-supply-equipment-and-heres/ )

That's cool and I respect that, I think it's a great concept too. However when compared to other vehicles such as Prius or even the new MY13 Altima, for what should be heavily Higher then a typical all Gas vehicle, it doesn't get that much extra. Concept is great, but there is still a lot of improvement needed for it, same thing can be said for the Leaf too I suppose.

[knightjp]

The government is helping out with a boost of support, but it's not forcing people to put up charging stations. Working for Nissan at the Tech Center, we are doing work with the Leaf so it's natural that we have charging stations. :P These same charging stations are also used for the Volt, MiEV and other future EVs. ( http://green.autoblog.com/2010/11/01/what-is-evse-its-electric-vehicle-supply-equipment-and-heres/ )

That's cool and I respect that, I think it's a great concept too. However when compared to other vehicles such as Prius or even the new MY13 Altima, for what should be heavily Higher then a typical all Gas vehicle, it doesn't get that much extra. Concept is great, but there is still a lot of improvement needed for it, same thing can be said for the Leaf too I suppose.
It would be nice if the Delorean EV would cost about the same as a normal Delorean. But it appears that they gonna be charging quite a bit for it.

[knightjp]

Probably have mentioned this before. What do you guys think of the power unit from the Chevy volt. Considering its electric and unlike a hybrid, the petrol engine only charges the batteries to give more range.

[knightjp]

Was watching Wheeler Dealers recently and they were doing an Alpine A310; the car from which the Delorean got its engine and transmission from. What they did to get more power was to have a kit made that would replace the existing manifold and carb setup with a Holley 4 barrel. It involved having a manifold machined with a special adapter plate.
Would that help Delorean PRVs get more power??

[Nicholas R]

Was watching Wheeler Dealers recently and they were doing an Alpine A310; the car from which the Delorean got its engine and transmission from. What they did to get more power was to have a kit made that would replace the existing manifold and carb setup with a Holley 4 barrel. It involved having a manifold machined with a special adapter plate.
Would that help Delorean PRVs get more power??

There are several people with carbureted DeLoreans, but the power output is pretty much the same. Nothing really changes but the fuel delivery method; you're still getting the same amount of air and fuel into the cylinder. If you want to increase the power you have to either change how much air and fuel are going in, modify the compression, change displacement, modify cam and ignition timing, etc.

If you're interested in carbed DeLoreans, then this is the place for you:
http://dmctalk.org/forumdisplay.php?54-Carb

[knightjp]

There are several people with carbureted DeLoreans, but the power output is pretty much the same. Nothing really changes but the fuel delivery method; you're still getting the same amount of air and fuel into the cylinder. If you want to increase the power you have to either change how much air and fuel are going in, modify the compression, change displacement, modify cam and ignition timing, etc.

If you're interested in carbed DeLoreans, then this is the place for you:
http://dmctalk.org/forumdisplay.php?54-Carb
Your car has a LS1 in it.?!
How is it? Does it handle well?

[The_Reverend]

I really really want to do a Honda J32 swap in my Delorean

[Nicholas R]

I believe that's the same engine tommyrich put in his car. You should contact him if you really are interested in that swap.