New A/C Panel Design Prototype - Thoughts/Suggestions?

[kajcienski]

Hello all! As there are more than several DeLorean AC panel/Double DIN design plans floating around that (in my own opinion) throw us in the direction of over-design or simply never get made, I thought I would have a little fun and attempt my own simple update. I'll skip the long step by step procedure and progress report I tend to love writing and try to just keep it simple ;)

So far... The decal is designed and have found a manufacturer ready to roll (graphic changes can still be made at this point) - the modified clear AC panel has been molded and ready for the plastic resin to be poured - the "el wire" lighting has been ordered and ready for install (this replaces the uneven "light tube" system) - lastly, the modification to the console bracket itself is the approaching next step (holding off until I decide on an HVAC mode switch direction - see below).

Here is a brief breakdown on what I set out to do:

a) Slightly update the look of the decal (get rid of the redundant word labels around the selector switch) while keeping with the overall design feel and integrity of the original car - more importantly, something I just personally liked
b) Chuck the rarely operational "fan fail" light
c) Add a back-lit DMC logo
d) Improve the overall back lighting from light tubes to "el wire"
e) Attempt to find and somehow integrate a more "common and dependable" HVAC mode switch - A super suggestion by Dave S
f) Do all of this without major surgery and keep to something that others in the community could do to their cars if desired

Here is what I came up with (see pic). I am very happy with it but wanted to share it with the community and welcome any suggestions or comments before I move onto actually producing a prototype.

A couple of questions:

1) Does anyone know of another HVAC switch that might easily work into this? Is it crazy or even possible to step away from the vacuum-type switch and somehow integrate a more modern non-vacuum switch?
2) Thoughts on overall design?
3) Unforeseen problems?

[dmcjohn]

Good job!

I think it looks nice, but the only thing I'd change is to space the DMC letters closer together as per the original logo - I mocked up a revised version attached...

7386

[kajcienski]

Good job!

I think it looks nice, but the only thing I'd change is to space the DMC letters closer together as per the original logo - I mocked up a revised version attached...

7386

That does indeed look better! Originally I was playing with even more space and ended up bring closer together - evidently not enough. Thanks!

[dmc6960]

How are you handling the multiple colors with the EL lighting? EL panels do not give off good colors like this panel should have.

If you wanted to eliminate light pipes, an arranged array of appropriately colored LEDs coupled with a flat sheet of acrylic would be sufficient. I'm employing a similar method for back-lighting my electronic instrument cluster project.

Also not a fan of the modified typeface. I'm really keen on keeping the nature of the appearance as 100% stock as possible.

Interesting though the idea to move the door lock and defrost lights, along with elimination of the fan fail light.

[kajcienski]

How are you handling the multiple colors with the EL lighting? EL panels do not give off good colors like this panel should have.

If you wanted to eliminate light pipes, an arranged array of appropriately colored LEDs coupled with a flat sheet of acrylic would be sufficient. I'm employing a similar method for back-lighting my electronic instrument cluster project.

Also not a fan of the modified typeface. I'm really keen on keeping the nature of the appearance as 100% stock as possible.

Interesting though the idea to move the door lock and defrost lights, along with elimination of the fan fail light.

Not everyone's cup of tea I guess! Thanks for the input though. I think the new symbols (needed after taking away the word graphics) are in line with cars of the time, just a tad updated. I personally think it stays in character with a possible option of the day. But understand people who want to stay stock! As far as lighting, I am having the colors put on the decal as per the original and using white light "el wire" to illuminate it. The plain white LED's are another option but was curious to try this first.

[dmc6960]

Careful using "white" light not produced by a filament. This light often will not be in a full color spectrum, leading to colored filters nearly filtering out ALL of the light! LEDs need to produce the actual light in the color you want, and I think EL is similar.

[kajcienski]

Careful using "white" light not produced by a filament. This light often will not be in a full color spectrum, leading to colored filters nearly filtering out ALL of the light! LEDs need to produce the actual light in the color you want, and I think EL is similar.

Did not know that with the EL... If I wanted to stick with the gels on the back of the decal as the original, what would you recommend? Would a bright LED strip (ribbon) not work well to back-light through the gels? Just trying to find the easiest way to do this as possible...

[Farrar]

Neat! I was thinking of something similar involving smoked acrylic and LEDs so that the panel would appear completely black until backlit. Any chance you could include that function and save me the trouble of manufacturing it myself? ;-)

Farrar

[kajcienski]

After feeling totally dizzy from back light research, I think I am going to keep it simple using light tubes like the original - and hope that a dash of reflective coating will give it that extra little boost!

[Bitsyncmaster]

After feeling totally dizzy from back light research, I think I am going to keep it simple using light tubes like the original - and hope that a dash of reflective coating will give it that extra little boost!

I think that will give you the best results. It was always my plan to make a PCB with many colored surface mount LEDs and use it on the original clear plastic panel.

[john 05141]

I certainly like to see a big improvement.
Yours is already an improvement, but as you ask for comments, here you go;

-I like the set up for the knobs better in one row! absolutely. But I think it would look better if you put them on top of the panel, and the switches lower.
-The DMC logo is way too big. When you open the door, it has DMC already on the door sills.
-Maybe a good idea to throw in some ambient lighting??
-I do not mind the lettering on the origiginal decals
-the light and hazard switches may use a more modern update as well.

John

[DeloreanJoshQ]

On the middle knob, I would fill in the white on the one side with black paint since you eliminated the redundant wording for the modes; it would make the knob setup look more uniform in my opinion.

[Jimmycxc]

Looks good. I know a navigation/double din radio would look great in our cars, but you have the problem with having relocate a lot of times on the dash to make it work. A single din with a flip up screen will block the vents.

Has anyone designed or implemented a new dash where you swap the vents and the radio position so you can keep all the lower knobs in the same place, but use a single din flip out radio while not blocking the vents?

[Ron]

On the middle knob, I would fill in the white on the one side with black paint since you eliminated the redundant wording for the modes; it would make the knob setup look more uniform in my opinion.+1

...and flip the headlight switch over the "wrong" way (unless you have a right hand D ;-), or down the road,...anything but toward the driver.:umm:

[rudolf1379]

Hi, I just want to say that I'm impressed and look forward to seeing what you end up with. Do you have an approximate price yet? I appreciate it.

Nelson

[kajcienski]

Hi, I just want to say that I'm impressed and look forward to seeing what you end up with. Do you have an approximate price yet? I appreciate it.

Nelson

Thanks! No price yet, but would just offer it at cost if anyone wanted it. It would have to include a new decal, plastic light panel, and hopefully a simple way to modify the bracket. I'll keep everyone posted. I would like to take everyone's comments/suggestions into account while still keeping to what I set out to do - so not sure on timeline, but ready to rock 'n roll on it!

[AdmiralSenn]

I realize I may be alone here but I'd like to see the fan fail light as an option, especially since I just bought a new fan controller and fail unit (Bitsyncmaster's) that actually use the fan fail light as intended.

[Bitsyncmaster]

I realize I may be alone here but I'd like to see the fan fail light as an option, especially since I just bought a new fan controller and fail unit (Bitsyncmaster's) that actually use the fan fail light as intended.

My fan fail unit has a feature not being used yet. It provides a weak -5 volt bias on the fan fail light driver when the fans are running. I was planning on making my replacement AC panel have a green light to indicate the fans running and then that light would go red when indicating a fan failure.

[kajcienski]

Hello all! I thought I would post the progress on this project (with attached pictures) if anyone wanted to follow along.

1) I began with a damaged/cracked light panel I found at a total discount on this forum. Using a Dremel tool, I then cut out the sections of the panel I wanted to shift around to create my new design. Then using epoxy putty for plastics, I re-formed the panel in the desired configuration (you can see this in the picture). It is not the prettiest thing (didn't bother too much on parts of it since it will not be seen), but it got the job done perfectly! I actually had to create a new light tube to illuminate the new "DMC" logo on the decal design - wasn't as complicated as I had originally thought which was good.

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2) I then created a mold of that prototype part and prepped it to pour in the new plastic resin (that big blue "brick"). I had to use a resin that was crystal clear for the light tubes and would also stand up to the car heat. It came out perfect! The picture shows the light panel after painting it black to block the light in spots. I'm still waiting on the reflective white paint for the backs of the light tubes but already carries the light extremely well and distributes it evenly through a mocked-up decal overlay.

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Plug - I got the mold and resin materials from "Smooth-on". They make great products and found that the cheaper trial kits contained more than enough to do the job keeping the cost down.

3) The decal design is now complete and am currently having that fabricated (you can see the final design in the attached photo). It will have the same green-ish tint as the original when lit.

9222

Still "to do"...

1) I have purchased a new console bracket and need to re-locate the HVAC selector switch mount along with 2 light bulb ports. Hopefully nothing behind the bracket will be too much of a problem.

2) Slap the new overlay on and install!


Almost there guys! I hope to have this all wrapped up within the next 2 weeks. I will post the final installation soon after. This has been a great little project so far!

[Jack]

3) The decal design is now complete and am currently having that fabricated (you can see the final design in the attached photo). It will have the same green-ish tint as the original when lit.

9222


First off great job on the mold and fabrication.

May I ask the process or company you are using to produce the overlay ?
Was considering making one myself that would follow the "original" but never implemented design of solid black until back lights illuminate the panel.
But I'm unfamiliar with the process used to "print" the overlay.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Nice looking work your doing.

[kajcienski]

First off great job on the mold and fabrication.

May I ask the process or company you are using to produce the overlay ?
Was considering making one myself that would follow the "original" but never implemented design of solid black until back lights illuminate the panel.
But I'm unfamiliar with the process used to "print" the overlay.

Thanks! There are many companies that will do "graphic overlay" prototyping. Even some that specialize in automotive. Until I get the final from the company I used and see how it turned out, I would rather wait on the recommendation just in case ;) There is probably a way to do the "home" version but to get the quality, heat resistance, and exact professional look and texture of the original decal - as far as I know you need to go through a company. If you look at the back of the original decal, there are quite a few micro-layers going on there.

On a separate note - DMCH has run out of AC light panels. I can honestly say after doing the mold and casting process, most anyone who can follow directions could just use the cracked panel and reproduce a perfect new part. It would run less than $100 using trial kits and other supplies. I will post the product numbers for the mold and resin kits I used from Smooth-On, I don't have that info handy right now.

[Spittybug]

Nice indeed.

Has anyone ever investigated replacing our 3 knob system with something more modern for climate control? I know we are vacuum driven for doors and flappers rather than motor driven like today's modern versions. I was wondering if anyone perhaps knew of an aftermarket product or another car that had a digital interface but vacuum controls....

I'm getting interior mod design fever again... maybe touch screen in place of the whole a/c panel itself...hummmm.

[Farrar]

I would recommend against a touch-screen for safety reasons. They can be hard to see in harsh daylight, and considering what kind of car you're driving do you really want to have to take your eyes off the road just to change the temperature?

I have actually thought of modernizing out HVAC system as well. Since you work faster than I do, here's what I have been thinking. Some early cars with automatic temperature control had a self-contained unit (in other words, they did not connect to the more modern "body control module" that every car has these days). You could simply remove one of those lock, stock, and barrel from a junkyard car -- temp sensor, flap motors, control interface, etc. I was thinking that a nice 7-segment LED display for temperature, with a small blue indicator light for when the compressor is on, would look period-appropriate for our cars. You could make buttons that are easy to used without looking at them -- for example, a single round button for on/off, and next to it two half-circle buttons, the upper half to raise temperature and the lower half to lower temperature. This way, you could easily tell by feel which button you're touching and you would never have to take your eyes off the road. Anyway, that's what I was thinking. Sorry for the long tangent.

[Spittybug]

Pics of "era-appropriate"?

[Farrar]

Pics of "era-appropriate"?

I don't have any.

Perhaps I chose my words poorly. Let me try again: I don't think the display would have been that sophisticated in 1977-81, but I think that a display reminiscent of VFD would not look out of place. In terms of the interior I keep in mind what the car might have looked like if they had stayed in production for a few more years and kept the interior up with the times. The outside of the car looks futuristic; I try to think of what the inside of the car would be if it had the same aesthetic -- if they had been as forward-looking (e.g. DMC6960's backlit gauge cluster project). This may only work in my head; you may think it's hideous and out of place.

For your junkyard searching, I do know that some manufacturers were putting automatic temperature control in some of their vehicles as early as 1985, e.g. Oldsmobile and Lincoln.

[20098]

I like the look of the decal, however, the "M" in the DMC logo looks a little off. Other than that, I think this project is great.

[john 05141]

I like that a lot, can't wait to see pictures installed.

John

[dmc6960]

I hate to burst your bubble here, but after re-reading the thread it looks like you've left out a very important detail...

The position of the knobs lights and buttons are all dictated by the radio bracket as well, NOT just the AC panel. You'll need to do some custom metalwork to get your new decal to fit in the car properly. This image shows the work another forum member did to make a double-din radio bracket...

http://i54.tinypic.com/281xzrc.jpg

[Nicholas R]

I hate to burst your bubble here, but after re-reading the thread it looks like you've left out a very important detail...

The position of the knobs lights and buttons are all dictated by the radio bracket as well, NOT just the AC panel. You'll need to do some custom metalwork to get your new decal to fit in the car properly. This image shows the work another forum member did to make a double-din radio bracket...

http://i54.tinypic.com/281xzrc.jpg

What ever happened to this project?!!! I was so ready to pay whatever price they wanted for that!

[kajcienski]

I hate to burst your bubble here, but after re-reading the thread it looks like you've left out a very important detail...

The position of the knobs lights and buttons are all dictated by the radio bracket as well, NOT just the AC panel. You'll need to do some custom metalwork to get your new decal to fit in the car properly. This image shows the work another forum member did to make a double-din radio bracket...

http://i54.tinypic.com/281xzrc.jpg

Yep - I am aware of needing to alter the bracket - had mentioned that in my last update on the 24th (I called it the "console bracket"). Good news is that it is almost ready! Just really waiting on the new decal now. I'll be posting pics of the whole process I went through once complete. Thanks for head's up though :) I might have not been clear about the bracket. Oh - one thing to add... The original light panel had a bright white paint to back the light tubes. I am instead trying a special "white" glow in the dark paint I found online. Funny thing is that when I tested it and then turned the light off, it was strong enough to keep the panel decal glowing which I thought was pretty cool.

[Nicholas R]

There's no chance you want to take on the Double DIN project is there? :D

[kajcienski]

I like the look of the decal, however, the "M" in the DMC logo looks a little off. Other than that, I think this project is great.

I'm using a font called "rustproofbody" - any suggestions on another font that matches DMC (for Mac)?


There's no chance you want to take on the Double DIN project is there? :D

I'd certainly be up to at least partnering on it with someone as far as my experience with re-designing and prototyping out (molds/resins) a new smaller light panel for the double din project, as well as decal design. That big of a bracket modification would be a headache for me though ;) Anyone interested? That is... When someone figures out the "right" place to re-locate the headlights and hazards without looking silly and also "partially period correct" to the car :) I haven't really seen a solution I like to that yet unless I missed something.

[20098]

There is another font that I have on my computer called "DMC" and the "D" and "C" are more similar to the original logo typeface. However, the "M" is not.

Maybe someone could work on the graphic for you like in the instrument cluster thread(?).

I've attached the "DMC" font that I have.

9334



I'm using a font called "rustproofbody" - any suggestions on another font that matches DMC (for Mac)?

[kajcienski]

There is another font that I have on my computer called "DMC" and the "D" and "C" are more similar to the original logo typeface. However, the "M" is not.

Maybe someone could work on the graphic for you like in the instrument cluster thread(?).

I've attached the "DMC" font that I have.

9334


Thanks! I compared to the original on the car and can just slightly manipulate the current font to match. Glad you guys caught that!

[1batt4u]

What ever happened to this project?!!! I was so ready to pay whatever price they wanted for that!

Yes, that is mine!!! :wave:

I am in the process on working on this project!!

I was busy with other stuff, and getting my Delorean together!

I am currently working out the bugs, and working on a custom shifter plate for the headlight/hazard switches and defrost/fans/door lock indicators

[sadeeky]

that does indeed look better! Originally i was playing with even more space and ended up bring closer together - evidently not enough. Thanks!

thats awesome i want that for my car!!!!

[kajcienski]

Okay - my modified bracket is now complete! With the help of my Dremel, some scrap aluminum sheet metal, steel reinforced epoxy putty, black trim paint, and a few cool Home Depot finds (see below), we are in business!

Here is the new modified bracket ready to be installed:

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Grommets and Spacers:

As you may know, the original clips that go in the light tube bracket holes are not available - so had to find an improved solution. While at Home Depot for a good hour, I found some grommets that work perfectly and snap right into the light tube holes. Since they are rubber and the perfect size, they should work better than the original metal rings to keep the bulb secure. As far as the holes for the "lock doors" and rear defrost bulbs (I opted to cut the holes to exact size instead of just knocking a square section out of the bracket as the original), I found a grommet and plastic spacer that worked perfectly together to keep any light from bleeding as well as hopefully hold the bulb sockets nice and snug (unlike the original which tends to just fall out if you don't wrap it in electrical tape). Below are is the information if anyone is interested as well as a view of the spacers snug in the grommets for the "lock doors" and rear defrost.

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Concerns/Questions:

I have only rough tested the grommets in combination with the bulbs and loose sockets as far as a truly "perfect" fit (so far so good) so am crossing my fingers it all works as planned. Another concern is that my grommets might melt due to the high heat that the bulbs produce. In that case, I have to ditch this plan or try LEDs. If I go with LEDs, does anyone have any experience swapping them out on this panel? Type or model number? Will it produce the right light to illuminate the decal colors correctly? Thanks everyone!

EDIT: I got brave and just tested the neopreme rubber grommet over a high heat open gas flame and there was no distortion or softening. It should handle bulb heat unless I am totally missing something...?

[kajcienski]

All systems "go" and I have reached the final hurdle (a biggie) - the HVAC panel graphic overlay. I'm not sure if anyone else has had experience in this area, but have found it incredibly difficult to find a proper graphic overlay specialist to agree to take on this project. I did get one quote from a respected company but it ended up over the 3k mark to produce 5 prototypes. Yikes! This price even included the fact that I had prepared all of the design files. Unless I can convince 30 people to commit, I just can't see that being a rational choice especially since the whole fun of this project is finding creative ways to make it work low cost. So, I have ventured out into the "do-it-yourself graphic overlay" arena and might have cracked it, or at least found a respectable solution.

After a ton of research and experimenting with different materials, the following is what I have come up with:

I found a special high heat resistant 4mil polyester film used in silk screening (polyester or vinyl is also used for true graphic overlays) that comes "frosted" or rather "textured" on one or both sides - also compatible with laser printers. The texturing helps with toner adhesion and gives the decal the correct surface look. What I then did is I printed the reverse image of the AC panel graphic on the 8.5 X 11 film sheet using a laser printer. While this does not result in an overlay with the exact surface texture the original DeLorean decal had, it matches the texture and look of more modern car decals and am very happy with the outcome.

Now in terms of getting the image to look and perform correctly when illuminated, I had to go through several steps.

For the colored graphics on the overlay, it looked great after printing when placing the overlay on a white surface. Remember that for any graphic that is white in color, the printer went sans toner and is meant to rely on the white paper it is printed on. The black toner meant to block out light looked perfectly even but when shining light through it, the light bled quite a bit. To fix this, I simply altered the main graphics file so that all graphics were white and therefore left the first pass of color alone and only used black toner where needed. After running the film sheet through the printer 5 more times (again, only printing the areas where I needed the light to be blocked), I had achieved total "black-out" and no light penetration through the desired area. Now I have a "decal" that looks great sitting on a white sheet of paper but clear in spots that are suppose to be white and washed out in colored areas (due to the small amount of toner) when held up to the light or when backlit.

The next step is building up the light gels to adhere to the back of the polyester film to make it look color correct in daylight AND when backlit. As I just mentioned, the printed decal looks correct but needs a white surface to achieve the true color in areas where there is a thin layer of color toner meant to be backlit and white where there is no toner at all. I turned to a heavily frosted diffusion light gel as the next layer. This will not only take care of the needed white layer but will help with even light distribution. However, the decal will still look "washed out" when held up to the light again due to the micro thin toner.

To fix the "washed out" look when lit, matching color gels must be used as the 3rd layer to the decal to provide a rich color when backlit. Living in Manhattan, I was lucky to have a super mega supplier of light gels and took my time matching gels to each of the desired colors. This 3rd layer gave the overlay the correct look when lit - brilliant!

The last step (which I am currently on) is to adhere all 3 layers permanently and cut it out. Since the film and gels are meant to withstand high heat (and assuming the adhesive can do the same), I don't anticipate any issues with car heat deforming the decal. I am planning to throw the finished decal into my other car and let it bake for a month to be sure.

I'll follow up with step-by-step pictures after finishing it up in the next week or two - assuming I don't botch up the adhesive and cutting the darn thing out. Wish me luck!



For fun, here are the presentation blueprints for the decal I am going to go uber nerd on and hang in the garage.

http://www.dreamartists.com/FINAL-Decal-Design-DeLorean-4a.pdf

[jawn101]

Good luck, Matt! You'll get it.

[kajcienski]

All systems "go" and I have reached the final hurdle (a biggie) - the HVAC panel graphic overlay. I'm not sure if anyone else has had experience in this area, but have found it incredibly difficult to find a proper graphic overlay specialist to agree to take on this project. I did get one quote from a respected company but it ended up over the 3k mark to produce 5 prototypes. Yikes! This price even included the fact that I had prepared all of the design files. Unless I can convince 30 people to commit, I just can't see that being a rational choice especially since the whole fun of this project is finding creative ways to make it work low cost. So, I have ventured out into the "do-it-yourself graphic overlay" arena and might have cracked it, or at least found a respectable solution.

After a ton of research and experimenting with different materials, the following is what I have come up with:

I found a special high heat resistant 4mil polyester film used in silk screening (polyester or vinyl is also used for true graphic overlays) that comes "frosted" or rather "textured" on one or both sides - also compatible with laser printers. The texturing helps with toner adhesion and gives the decal the correct surface look. What I then did is I printed the reverse image of the AC panel graphic on the 8.5 X 11 film sheet using a laser printer. While this does not result in an overlay with the exact surface texture the original DeLorean decal had, it matches the texture and look of more modern car decals and am very happy with the outcome.

Now in terms of getting the image to look and perform correctly when illuminated, I had to go through several steps.

For the colored graphics on the overlay, it looked great after printing when placing the overlay on a white surface. Remember that for any graphic that is white in color, the printer went sans toner and is meant to rely on the white paper it is printed on. The black toner meant to block out light looked perfectly even but when shining light through it, the light bled quite a bit. To fix this, I simply altered the main graphics file so that all graphics were white and therefore left the first pass of color alone and only used black toner where needed. After running the film sheet through the printer 5 more times (again, only printing the areas where I needed the light to be blocked), I had achieved total "black-out" and no light penetration through the desired area. Now I have a "decal" that looks great sitting on a white sheet of paper but clear in spots that are suppose to be white and washed out in colored areas (due to the small amount of toner) when held up to the light or when backlit.

The next step is building up the light gels to adhere to the back of the polyester film to make it look color correct in daylight AND when backlit. As I just mentioned, the printed decal looks correct but needs a white surface to achieve the true color in areas where there is a thin layer of color toner meant to be backlit and white where there is no toner at all. I turned to a heavily frosted diffusion light gel as the next layer. This will not only take care of the needed white layer but will help with even light distribution. However, the decal will still look "washed out" when held up to the light again due to the micro thin toner.

To fix the "washed out" look when lit, matching color gels must be used as the 3rd layer to the decal to provide a rich color when backlit. Living in Manhattan, I was lucky to have a super mega supplier of light gels and took my time matching gels to each of the desired colors. This 3rd layer gave the overlay the correct look when lit - brilliant!

The last step (which I am currently on) is to adhere all 3 layers permanently and cut it out. Since the film and gels are meant to withstand high heat (and assuming the adhesive can do the same), I don't anticipate any issues with car heat deforming the decal. I am planning to throw the finished decal into my other car and let it bake for a month to be sure.

I'll follow up with step-by-step pictures after finishing it up in the next week or two - assuming I don't botch up the adhesive and cutting the darn thing out. Wish me luck!



For fun, here are the presentation blueprints for the decal I am going to go uber nerd on and hang in the garage.

http://www.dreamartists.com/FINAL-Decal-Design-DeLorean-4a.pdf



UPDATE

Okay, I got a tad of waviness using the 4mm polyester film after adhering everything together. This could be from overworking the material... This prompted me to search high and low to source the actual overlay material used by specialists. Bingo! I will have the material next week and try out the same process. The color gel layer and white diffusion layer should remain the same and heat stable. Will shoot over an update next week. The new material should guarantee long life and optimal scratch resistance.

[kajcienski]

UPDATE

Okay, I got a tad of waviness using the 4mm polyester film after adhering everything together. This could be from overworking the material... This prompted me to search high and low to source the actual overlay material used by specialists. Bingo! I will have the material next week and try out the same process. The color gel layer and white diffusion layer should remain the same and heat stable. Will shoot over an update next week. The new material should guarantee long life and optimal scratch resistance.

Wow! Got the new decal material in (8B35 - velvet/matte) - matches the original decal material perfectly! It worked superbly when printing on my color laser printer. The only change to the original set of layers I constructed was instead of printing 5 times on the same top sheet to block out light, I printed once in color on the 8B35 and then added a black/clear layer (printing 4 times to thicken toner) on a transparency. I have to say this could not have turned out better. It is finished and looks 100% factory made and once I figured out the proper layering and construction method, really didn't take too long to put together (about 2 hours). Considering 5 specialist companies refused to make this because it was too involved and the one who finally gave me a quote wanted over 3k, this is a small miracle ;) I'll have more details on construction and pictures in a follow-up thread after I finish the entire installation this weekend. Cheers!

[Iznodmad]

That's awesome. Can't wait to see some pics. This is something I have an interest in purchasing.

[jawn101]

Wow! Got the new decal material in (8B35 - velvet/matte) - matches the original decal material perfectly! It worked superbly when printing on my color laser printer. The only change to the original set of layers I constructed was instead of printing 5 times on the same top sheet to block out light, I printed once in color on the 8B35 and then added a black/clear layer (printing 4 times to thicken toner) on a transparency. I have to say this could not have turned out better. It is finished and looks 100% factory made and once I figured out the proper layering and construction method, really didn't take too long to put together (about 2 hours). Considering 5 specialist companies refused to make this because it was too involved and the one who finally gave me a quote wanted over 3k, this is a small miracle ;) I'll have more details on construction and pictures in a follow-up thread after I finish the entire installation this weekend. Cheers!

You could team up with Jim Reeve and finally produce replacement decals appropriate to the different styles! This is all very exciting news.

[kajcienski]

Here is the final decal! Phew...

Here is a picture of the new decal side by side with the original. The texture and color matches perfectly and retains the same velvety scratch-resistant surface made from the common graphic overlay material "Lexan". All layers are heat resistant.

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As mentioned in a previous post in this thread, the new graphic overlay decal has four thin layers. 1) The full color image printed in reverse on the back of the Lexan sheet 2) 5 passes of the image black/clear on a transparency to block out light 3) A white diffusion layer that gives the clear sections the appropriate white color 4) Color gels that enhance and enrich the decal colors when applying a back light. Here is a picture of the back showing the white diffusion gel (layer 3) and the colored gels (layer 4).

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Here is a close-up of the new decal to show the color and texture.

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Here is the decal when applying a back light. Notice how the "Lock Doors" and "Rear Defrost" only appear through the decal when lit - when the light is off, the decal will appear black in those areas as you can see in the pictures above. Also notice how the "DMC" appears to have a slight "cool blue" tint only when lit.

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I will be making a new decal for the shifter (automatic) to match the AC panel look as well as a custom back light install in the ashtray which I will post when finished (will be the plug port coming from my new Parrot stereo). Stay tuned for updates and a log of the complete install!

[jawn101]

here is the final decal! Phew...

wow!!!!!

[Squall67584]

Looks absolutely amazing!!! With this, along with the parrot stereo and the new gauge cluster being designed in another thread, the interior of the D will fit right along with modern cars.

[BTTF-1]

Verey very impressive.

Ed:hihi:

[kajcienski]

Thanks guys! I forgot to mention that the light tubes have a glow-in-the-dark reflective material so when the car shuts off, the panel has an afterglow through the graphics. Not really a function but wanted to give it a try for fun.

[dvonk]

oh, thats too awesome. i love glow in the dark stuff. :)

[DMC5180]

That's really sharp. How will you be backlighting this?

[kajcienski]

That's really sharp. How will you be backlighting this?

Thanks! If you look further back in the thread, you will see I molded and cast a custom light panel (like the original) made to fit the modified bracket.

On another note, I have pictures of the final install and am happy to say it passed a weekend of heat testing with flying colors. Will post pictures tomorrow.

[kajcienski]

Hello! Well, the updated HVAC panel project has come to a close! Both the graphic overlay and the light panel withstood the hot car with flying colors. I took a couple quick pictures the other day before I permanently affixed the decal and light panel to the bracket and wanted to share them with everyone below (NOTE: that is why there is some bleeding light in the photos because the panel and decal were still loose). Since these pictures were taken, I have customized the center knob to match the left and right one with only one white marking and have finished up securing the decal and light panel permanently. I was going to give you my step-by-step log but realized I posted most of the details already. I have made extra light panels so I might consider putting together a few mod kits if there is any interest. Unfortunately because of the materials and time, it will most likely not be cheap. However, I am putting it out there if anyone is interested...Thank you for all of your helpful comments along the way - it looks absolutely BEAUTIFUL in the car! If anyone would like additional photos or informations, let me know and will post those in this thread.

ALSO! Stay tuned for a new thread including the custom illuminated USB, iPhone, and "line in" panel mounted inside the ashtray for the Parrot radio. The plan is for it to look stock when closed, then when you open the ashtray, a graphic overlay will light up and you will have all of the plug mounts ready to roll. That should be complete in a few weeks.

(Before securing the decal and panel)
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[jawn101]

Hello! Well, the updated HVAC panel project has come to a close! Both the graphic overlay and the light panel withstood the hot car with flying colors. I took a couple quick pictures the other day before I permanently affixed the decal and light panel to the bracket and wanted to share them with everyone below (that is why there is some bleeding light in the photo since it was loose). Since these pictures were taken, I have customized the center knob to match the left and right one with only one white marking and have finished up securing the decal and light panel permanently. I was going to give you my step-by-step log but realized I posted most of the details already. I have made extra light panels so I might consider putting together a few mod kits if there is any interest. Unfortunately because of the materials and time, it will most likely not be cheap. However, I am putting it out there if anyone is interested...Thank you for all of your helpful comments along the way - it looks absolutely BEAUTIFUL in the car! If anyone would like additional photos or informations, let me know and will post those in this thread.

ALSO! Stay tuned for a new thread including the custom illuminated USB, iPhone, and "line in" panel mounted inside the ashtray for the Parrot radio. The plan is for it to look stock when closed, then when you open the ashtray, a graphic overlay will light up and you will have all of the plug mounts ready to roll. That should be complete in a few weeks.

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This looks even better than expected. Well done!

[kajcienski]

This looks even better than expected. Well done!

Thanks Jon! Now that I know how to make graphic overlays myself, I have a fever... Trying to find other places in the car to use them (like a new shifter decal that matches the HVAC and then the ashtray project I mentioned).

[jawn101]

Thanks Jon! Now that I know how to make graphic overlays myself, I have a fever... Trying to find other places in the car to use them (like a new shifter decal that matches the HVAC and then the ashtray project I mentioned).

Put your overlay fever to work making replacement headlight and hazard switch decals! Lots of us have worn out ones and don't necessarily want to get the pricey new DMCH switch :) I'd buy one of each!

[kajcienski]

Put your overlay fever to work making replacement headlight and hazard switch decals! Lots of us have worn out ones and don't necessarily want to get the pricey new DMCH switch :) I'd buy one of each!

That would be pretty simple - I'll take a closer look. I would be worried about the decal thickness not looking flush. Any graphic update requests?

[DMC5180]

Looks nice! Can you post a better No flash photo of the illumination in darkness. The blue half of the temp control seems like it's not getting enough light. But that could be the detached decal causing that.

[kajcienski]

Looks nice! Can you post a better No flash photo of the illumination in darkness. The blue half of the temp control seems like it's not getting enough light. But that could be the detached decal causing that.

Thanks! I'll post some additional pictures when I am at my garage next. The blue part of the decal, even on the original light panel and decal, does not light up nearly as well. I am looking into adding a small LED to give that side of the temp control decal the extra light it needs to even out. But before that, am going to try extra reflective material on the back of the panel. It doesn't look totally out of place, but is noticeable since everything else on the panel lights so evenly. I'll post what I end up with.

[kajcienski]

Thanks! I'll post some additional pictures when I am at my garage next. The blue part of the decal, even on the original light panel and decal, does not light up nearly as well. I am looking into adding a small LED to give that side of the temp control decal the extra light it needs to even out. But before that, am going to try extra reflective material on the back of the panel. It doesn't look totally out of place, but is noticeable since everything else on the panel lights so evenly. I'll post what I end up with.

After working on a "black" decal in which the graphics only light up when backlit like in Vin 500, I determined that the stock backlit panel just doesn't give off the even light needed for it to look any good or effective. Possibly this is the reason the original never made it past Vin "1". However, I have made a prototype light panel that uses super bright LEDs (tuned to the desired light intensity with resistors) offering incredibly even lighting, long life, and very little heat. It is installed in the car and works extremely well with my current overlay. I will be continuing with the "black" HVAC overlay and see what I come up with. If it looks like I hope it will, I might make a few for the stock knob arrangement (I have moved my center knob and warning light around as in an earlier post) for kicks. However, the light panel would need to be converted to a custom LED panel as I did for it to show correctly. Fun stuff!

[dvonk]

...I have made a prototype light panel that uses super bright LEDs (tuned to the desired light intensity with resistors) offering incredibly even lighting, long life, and very little heat...

that is wicked sweet. :headbang:

looking forward to seeing some pictures!

[nelshaun]

All systems "go" and I have reached the final hurdle (a biggie) - the HVAC panel graphic overlay. I'm not sure if anyone else has had experience in this area, but have found it incredibly difficult to find a proper graphic overlay specialist to agree to take on this project. I did get one quote from a respected company but it ended up over the 3k mark to produce 5 prototypes. Yikes! This price even included the fact that I had prepared all of the design files. Unless I can convince 30 people to commit, I just can't see that being a rational choice especially since the whole fun of this project is finding creative ways to make it work low cost. So, I have ventured out into the "do-it-yourself graphic overlay" arena and might have cracked it, or at least found a respectable solution.

After a ton of research and experimenting with different materials, the following is what I have come up with:

I found a special high heat resistant 4mil polyester film used in silk screening (polyester or vinyl is also used for true graphic overlays) that comes "frosted" or rather "textured" on one or both sides - also compatible with laser Epson ink cheap from InkJetSuperStore.com (http://www.inkjetsuperstore.com/epson-ink-cartridges). The texturing helps with toner adhesion and gives the decal the correct surface look. What I then did is I printed the reverse image of the AC panel graphic on the 8.5 X 11 film sheet using a laser printer. While this does not result in an overlay with the exact surface texture the original DeLorean decal had, it matches the texture and look of more modern car decals and am very happy with the outcome.

Now in terms of getting the image to look and perform correctly when illuminated, I had to go through several steps.

For the colored graphics on the overlay, it looked great after printing when placing the overlay on a white surface. Remember that for any graphic that is white in color, the printer went sans toner and is meant to rely on the white paper it is printed on. The black toner meant to block out light looked perfectly even but when shining light through it, the light bled quite a bit. To fix this, I simply altered the main graphics file so that all graphics were white and therefore left the first pass of color alone and only used black toner where needed. After running the film sheet through the printer 5 more times (again, only printing the areas where I needed the light to be blocked), I had achieved total "black-out" and no light penetration through the desired area. Now I have a "decal" that looks great sitting on a white sheet of paper but clear in spots that are suppose to be white and washed out in colored areas (due to the small amount of toner) when held up to the light or when backlit.

The next step is building up the light gels to adhere to the back of the polyester film to make it look color correct in daylight AND when backlit. As I just mentioned, the printed decal looks correct but needs a white surface to achieve the true color in areas where there is a thin layer of color toner meant to be backlit and white where there is no toner at all. I turned to a heavily frosted diffusion light gel as the next layer. This will not only take care of the needed white layer but will help with even light distribution. However, the decal will still look "washed out" when held up to the light again due to the micro thin toner.

To fix the "washed out" look when lit, matching color gels must be used as the 3rd layer to the decal to provide a rich color when backlit. Living in Manhattan, I was lucky to have a super mega supplier of light gels and took my time matching gels to each of the desired colors. This 3rd layer gave the overlay the correct look when lit - brilliant!

The last step (which I am currently on) is to adhere all 3 layers permanently and cut it out. Since the film and gels are meant to withstand high heat (and assuming the adhesive can do the same), I don't anticipate any issues with car heat deforming the decal. I am planning to throw the finished decal into my other car and let it bake for a month to be sure.

I'll follow up with step-by-step pictures after finishing it up in the next week or two - assuming I don't botch up the adhesive and cutting the darn thing out. Wish me luck!



For fun, here are the presentation blueprints for the decal I am going to go uber nerd on and hang in the garage.

http://www.dreamartists.com/FINAL-Decal-Design-DeLorean-4a.pdf
Well I don't have a specific printer for printing blueprints but I do go to a friend's place for me to print for. How much does a blueprint printer cost by the way?

[Bitsyncmaster]

Well I don't have a specific printer for printing blueprints but I do go to a friend's place for me to print for. How much does a blueprint printer cost by the way?

Blueprints were done exposing a translucent original to special paper behind it. It's not something that is done anymore since computer printers or plotters are capable of making better and cheaper copies.

[kajcienski]

Well I don't have a specific printer for printing blueprints but I do go to a friend's place for me to print for. How much does a blueprint printer cost by the way?

Although after more testing and now having modified certain materials and processes, I do the printing on a color laser. Not sure how a blueprint printer got into the question. There is one specific company that is producing the velvet/matte poly needed for the correct decal look that uses a coating specific to laser toner adhesion. What I found is that without this adhesive coating, the toner would separate from the poly if handled or bent a fair amount. The layering I described has also changed after testing. When I have some time, I will post up my final step-by-step. More information can be found in my "black decal" thread.

[DeloreanJoshQ]

What is the status of this project??

[kajcienski]

Project done and looks fantastic! I'll post the final design pics soon. I ended up going with a version of the original graphics that in the end, looks much better than my previous design. Very happy with it!

[Ryan King]

project done and looks fantastic! I'll post the final design pics soon. I ended up going with a version of the original graphics that in the end, looks much better than my previous design. Very happy with it!

pictures

[kajcienski]

Will post pics soon. On another note and terribly annoying (attention moderators), the guy with the handle "nelshaun" added to my quote a few posts back and stuck in a reference to a printing supply website (he is the one that mentioned blueprint printers off topic). That was NOT part of the original post that he quoted. I can't believe these guys are going to the trouble to go on a DeLorean forum!

[jawn101]

Will post pics soon. On another note and terribly annoying (attention moderators), the guy with the handle "nelshaun" added to my quote a few posts back and stuck in a reference to a printing supply website (he is the one that mentioned blueprint printers off topic). That was NOT part of the original post that he quoted. I can't believe these guys are going to the trouble to go on a DeLorean forum!

Come on Matt, everyone knows we DeLorean owners are influential and wealthy with large social circles... perfect marketing targets... :lol:

Seriously though, I'm dying to see how far you can go with this. The project looks so great. And I stand behind my suggestion to put your overlay development skills into reproducing earlier style decals and headlight/hazard switches... :)

[Ron]

Will post pics soon. On another note and terribly annoying (attention moderators), the guy with the handle "nelshaun" added to my quote a few posts back and stuck in a reference to a printing supply website (he is the one that mentioned blueprint printers off topic). That was NOT part of the original post that he quoted. I can't believe these guys are going to the trouble to go on a DeLorean forum!
Anxious to see the pics (...there is one in my shop now that's hard to read).

fyi, I banned nelshaun back in September...

[Nicholas R]

Will post pics soon. On another note and terribly annoying (attention moderators), the guy with the handle "nelshaun" added to my quote a few posts back and stuck in a reference to a printing supply website (he is the one that mentioned blueprint printers off topic). That was NOT part of the original post that he quoted. I can't believe these guys are going to the trouble to go on a DeLorean forum!

Lol, wow, "I'll just slip this sneaky little plug in here; I'm sure no one will notice."


...I found a special high heat resistant 4mil polyester film used in silk screening (polyester or vinyl is also used for true graphic overlays) that comes "frosted" or rather "textured" on one or both sides - also compatible with laser Epson ink cheap from InkJetSuperStore.com....

That's so ridiculous. Every previous post of his even looks like he actually has a DeLorean; but he can't miss a nice little opportunity to try to promote some website? How ridiculous :rolleyes:

Sorry to get off topic.

[kajcienski]

Hi Guys! Here is the final installation I decided on! This final version incorporates the original graphics to keep in the car's overall feel and style - like it could have been the original design in '81. I really dig it! This installation uses my LED backed lighting panel (its own self-contained panel unit that taps into any of the original light sockets) to ensure dead even light behind the graphic overlay (something the original panel in our cars did poorly). The pictures look accurate for the most part (just an iPhone camera) but looks a bit washed out in the lighted pictures for some reason. Glad this year-long project is done! Learned a lot.


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[dmc6960]

Very impressive. Nice work.

[dmc6960]

Also, great call with sticking with the original graphic design style. You can't always "modernize" certain aspects of this car and have it look right.

[kajcienski]

Also, great call with sticking with the original graphic design style. You can't always "modernize" certain aspects of this car and have it look right.

Yep, I realized that after 30 designs! Perhaps I am use to to what is there, but the original font, colors, and general style fits perfect - and unique to our cars.

[1batt4u]

I also like that you kept the original design of the "Heat/Cold". Is the sticker smooth or textured?

[kajcienski]

I also like that you kept the original design of the "Heat/Cold". Is the sticker smooth or textured?

The material is the standard for graphic overlays so matches the finish/texture of the original exactly. No way to really tell it apart from an original production overlay - good stuff. If you look back in this thread, you can see pictures of an earlier design of mine next to the original decal. You can see the texture comparison there. Thanks!

[1batt4u]

Ok saw it. My overlay is actually smooth. I know a few were smooth like mine and others textured. Overall I think there were 4 different styles of the stock overlays.

Someone posted all of them together in the old forum.

[TTait]

By the way - I'm running a Parrot Asteroid stereo too, wanted to mention that you can get one of the DMC logos for the AT gear shift and it fits perfectly over the existing Parrot button. I'm using the SS one, but I understand there may also be a version made of frosted white plastic with teh DMC silk screened onto it - that one should light up similar to the parrot button assuming it fits too.

See post #25 here for a pic...

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2474-Interesting-new-stereo-head-unit-available-Parrot-Asteroid/page3

[outatym2001]

Ok saw it. My overlay is actually smooth. I know a few were smooth like mine and others textured. Overall I think there were 4 different styles of the stock overlays.

Someone posted all of them together in the old forum.

Do you mean this thread? There are a total of 49 posts so far.
HVAC panel-Ouline vs. Solid Lettering -VIN cut-offs?
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1640-HVAC-panel-Ouline-vs-Solid-Lettering-VIN-cut-offs

[1batt4u]

Do you mean this thread? There are a total of 49 posts so far.
HVAC panel-Ouline vs. Solid Lettering -VIN cut-offs?
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1640-HVAC-panel-Ouline-vs-Solid-Lettering-VIN-cut-offs

Yes, just saw this post! I think there's supposed to be a total of 5. I have the real early one, with out the "Heat" Cold" on the temp. control.

[kobachi]

Yes, just saw this post! I think there's supposed to be a total of 5. I have the real early one, with out the "Heat" Cold" on the temp. control.

What's the word on these panels? Are they available yet?

[john 05141]

Dave is enjoying a ski holiday so he can clear his mind and finish this when he gets back...
It will be a few weeks I guess.

Jan

[kajcienski]

Dave is enjoying a ski holiday so he can clear his mind and finish this when he gets back...
It will be a few weeks I guess.

Jan

I think this was meant for the Dave M thread ;)