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Cory W
01-16-2012, 09:27 AM
It seems recently there have been some cases where people register only to sell some item of limited interest and then we never hear from them again. Others post here with no intention to adequately describe their item or post pictures. A recent "looking for" thread is turning into a bit of a zoo because other people are expressing interest in items that may be available to the original searcher.

I propose the following additional rules to the For Sale thread:
1. You must post a price with your listing. Price "OBO" is acceptable as well. State whether the price includes shipping, and where to (worldwide; within USA)
2. You must post pictures or the thread will be closed. If you want a given price, prove your item is worth it.
3. You are not allowed to bump threads. If it's there, somebody will find it. Additional information, pictures, or a price adjustment are allowed.

xbrules
01-16-2012, 09:30 AM
There should also be a minimum post requirement by members in order to sell anything say 20+ posts in order to help stop people signing up just to sell stuff and never returning.

timothymoore
01-16-2012, 09:31 AM
i 2nd this. its just so annoying when you see something for sale, whether it be a part or a car and they just post that they have something for and no description is given, no price is given and most importantly no pictures are given. i remember one thread where the owner/scammer??? posted an ad on here for a substantial amount for his car and absolutely refused to post pictures on here insisting that the car was worth the asking price.

Delorean Industries
01-16-2012, 09:34 AM
Glad this moved form Facebook to here. Hopefully we can get some results on this issue quickly.

sean
01-16-2012, 09:58 AM
I propose the following additional rules to the For Sale thread:
1. You must post a price with your listing. Price "OBO" is acceptable as well. State whether the price includes shipping, and where to (worldwide; within USA)
2. You must post pictures or the thread will be closed. If you want a given price, prove your item is worth it.
3. You are not allowed to bump threads. If it's there, somebody will find it. Additional information, pictures, or a price adjustment are allowed.

I like 1 & 3 but think 2 is not always needed, i.e. "I just ordered a set of door struts and didn't need them". Do we need to see the door struts? Now, joe nobody posts about his early '81 with low miles, he needs to post some pics. I like this discussion and hope folks understand that if you got a problem tell us about it, either threads like this or via pm. Despite our apparent poor internets facade he want this place to be enjoyed by all. So please let Tamir, Mike or myself know if you have issues with us or the forum and we'll work it out.

I don't see an issues enforcing 1&3 but again I think 2 is more subjective. We will make an effort to better enforce the random chatter that is taking place in the for sale section as well.

xbrules
01-16-2012, 11:03 AM
if you make it mandatory though to post pictures on ALL sale items, surely that will help to alleviate any potential buyer doubt in any item, even if like you say someone bought something and didn't use it, a photo will remove any potential doubt on it's condition.

What about making for sale items go through moderation before the initial post is made by the seller so the mods can ensure everything is up to scratch?

Spittybug
01-16-2012, 11:11 AM
On a similar tangent, why don't we examine enforcing a couple of the data items in everyone's avatar? Nothing onerous, just a couple of obvious ones like location and year of car or transmission type? I was thinking VIN as well, but some might consider that too personal for some reason. If everyone's location were stated (real or not), then this might help promote club affiliation or individuals helping one another in person because they are just down the road from each other. A little basic data helps people give better replies without "oh, I didn't realize you were and automatic....".

I don't have too much of a problem with people joining to sell something Delorean related and then getting out; after all, doesn't that have benefit to this group? Maybe we just need to have a post or logon minimum for your account to stay active?

Delorean Industries
01-16-2012, 11:27 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong. But once someone openly posts something available in a thread it is open game for anyone to go after it regardless of the original post. At that point it is obviously that persons intention to sell their item to anyone interested and not just the original poster.

stevedmc
01-16-2012, 12:09 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong. But once someone openly posts something available in a thread it is open game for anyone to go after it regardless of the original post. At that point it is obviously that persons intention to sell their item to anyone interested and not just the original poster.

Say what you want, but I think it is ethically wrong, to jump in and snap up something someone else is requesting when the part meets your needs/price requirement.

If forum rules are going to be changed, I think a rule should be added to prevent Josh from sniping purchases from other people.

The original poster of a parts request needs to be given a fair chance to purchase something that is offered as a reply to his/her request.

Delorean Industries
01-16-2012, 12:12 PM
Once a seller makes something public it is fair game. Ethically wrong. yeah ok Steve...... It is the sellers discretion to sell to whomever they choose. Once they make it public it IS fair game to anyone interested and obviously their intent to get as many bites on it as possible.

Delorean Industries
01-16-2012, 12:16 PM
Say what you want, but I think it is ethically wrong, to jump in and snap up something someone else is requesting when the part meets your needs/price requirement.

If forum rules are going to be changed, I think a rule should be added to prevent Josh from sniping purchases from other people.

The original poster of a parts request needs to be given a fair chance to purchase something that is offered as a reply to his/her request.

The only rule possible will be for owners with the part requested to contact the owner privately and not in the thread. You mean to tell me by starting a thread on this open forum that gives you the first right of refusal to purchase an available part? No that just lets everyone that might have it know that you are in the market. Who ever has the means to buy it being me or anyone else on here can purchase anything when ever they want regardless of who first asks for it. Tell me how this could ever be regulated on here.......

"Wait I need a frame or blank part too. But they obviously need it more then me so I guess I don't need one that bad" I'm sure everyone on here thinks exactly like that when it comes to their car being on the road.

I could care less about this. But you are right in one regard we are at the advantage when ever something comes up for sale. We are willing to trade parts and services from our vast inventory and this appeals to a lot of sellers.

stevedmc
01-16-2012, 12:20 PM
Tell me how this could ever be regulated on here.......

Nothing can be truely regulated unless Sean puts everyone on timeout. Honestly, things should just be left alone.

But it breaks my heart when some poor dude on a limited budget posts a want ad because he/she can't afford to buy from a vendor.

Someone responds, saying, I have the part you need and can sell it to you for less than a vendor. Then a vendor with an unlimited bankroll of money chimes in and says, I'm paying first and I want it now.

Next the poor guy who just wanted a deal on a part is forced to goto the vendor to buy what he was originally trying to purchase.

Honestly, it makes you look like an ass.

Delorean Industries
01-16-2012, 12:24 PM
Nothing can be truely regulated unless Sean puts everyone on timeout. Honestly, things should just be left alone.

But it breaks my heart when some poor dude on a limited budget posts a want ad because he/she can't afford to buy from a vendor.

Someone responds, saying, I have the part you need and can sell it to you for less than a vendor. Then a vendor with an unlimited bankroll of money chimes in and says, I'm paying first and I want it now.

Next the poor guy who just wanted a deal on a part is forced to goto the vendor to buy what he was originally trying to purchase.

Honestly, it makes you look like an ass.

No one is looking like an ass when we are fighting among ourselves over rare parts.... Frames are not available from vendors so your posted situation does not apply. You do not see any stepping in when someone wants a 12 dollar muffler bushing used. Its only on the hard to get rare components. The little guy is not being "squeezed".

Notifier
01-16-2012, 12:58 PM
I like the requirement for posting a price and a picture when it's appropriate. Also like the idea of a minimum post number before posting anything for sale. Gotta watch that one because people will just post some nonsense like repeatedly posting "n/m" 20 times to get unlocked. Saw that happened on another forum once and was never enforced. So maybe in order to be able to post in there you have to PM an moderator first, they check your activity, then you get unlocked.

Not sure about the post bumping. Sometimes things get stale, and a post that's 6 months old you might question if it's still available or wanted. Maybe a rule where all posts automatically get locked after 90 days (or whenever) and if you still want it advertised, you repost.

stevedmc
01-16-2012, 01:06 PM
No one is looking like an ass when we are fighting among ourselves over rare parts.... Frames are not available from vendors so your posted situation does not apply. You do not see any stepping in when someone wants a 12 dollar muffler bushing used. Its only on the hard to get rare components. The little guy is not being "squeezed".

I am not arguing or fighting. You have admitted before that you are stockpiling parts. You have jumped in countless times and cut out the little guy so you can buy stuff dirt cheap, hold on to it, and resell it for a profit. There is no denying that.

There is nothing wrong with that, but if someone responds to another person's thread saying, "Yeah man, I've got what you need", then you shouldn't instantly chime in saying I'll buy it before even giving the little guy a chance to read the response.

Why don't you just post a thousand, "I want this part", in the wanted forum, and let people come to you?

sdg3205
01-16-2012, 03:28 PM
Over on the Jeep forum there is a minimum number of posts you need to make before you can sell something. Though I don't think you need to enforce 20 posts first, it would be nice if they had to say hi on the introductions thread.

There was a few sellers from ebay just posting stuff on here with no intention of being part of a community. That just clutters things up.

How about making it mandatory to drive a delorean before starting an engine swap thread?! Kidding, kidding.

mluder
01-16-2012, 07:22 PM
I would agree with the "must post a price/OBO" rule.
I appreciate that many have a good idea what a used part should sell for however, I have seen a few postings that just say "make an offer."
Now I am forced to guess based on what a new one or NOS one costs from a vendor and what I would like to pay for it. And, I have to weigh that against not wanting to offend someone.

Make an offer means I can offer anything I want, right? So if I offer $150 for your left front fender you shouldn't be offended but still...

Spittybug
01-16-2012, 07:40 PM
This is now bordering on religious/political thread. Capitalism rules this country. If you post in an OPEN forum, ALL should be allowed to participate. There is no "I got there first" or "no tag backs" like in grade school.

The moral integrity of Sam seller cannot be legislated. If Larry little guy makes an offer for something that is acceptable to Sam seller before Bob big guy jumps in, the MORALS of Sam seller should dictate, not the admins of this site.

Hence the concept of PRIVATE messages.

Ron
01-16-2012, 09:56 PM
This is now bordering on religious/political thread. Capitalism rules this country. If you post in an OPEN forum, ALL should be allowed to participate. There is no "I got there first" or "no tag backs" like in grade school.

The moral integrity of Sam seller cannot be legislated. If Larry little guy makes an offer for something that is acceptable to Sam seller before Bob big guy jumps in, the MORALS of Sam seller should dictate, not the admins of this site.

Hence the concept of PRIVATE messages.
:aniclap:

AND:
- I'd hate to miss out because someone didn't want to go through a bunch of BS to post a part someone needed.
- If someone post a part and we don't here from them again - GOOD (it will push to the bottom, never to be seen again anyway.)
-As for vultures and snipes...we all (should) know the signs...and Steve will point them out anyway! (seriously)

stevedmc
01-17-2012, 12:05 AM
As for vultures and snipes...we all (should) know the signs...and Steve will point them out anyway! (seriously)

I'll be monitoring Josh very closely from now on.



Disclaimer: I still think Josh is a cool guy. If I ever win the lottery I'm driving 16510 straight to Ohio.

SamHill
01-17-2012, 03:18 PM
I don't agree with bashing of any kind in for sale threads. Take it to PM.

Ron
01-17-2012, 03:36 PM
I don't agree with bashing of any kind in for sale threads. Take it to PM.I have a question (for everyone actually).
If this is the way it is to handled, could the PM's be sent to buyer and/or seller?

I ask because all this relates to something bugging me over items being offered not too long ago. I noticed that they were priced significantly higher than they could be found on the net -- Exact same item(s) for ~2/3 the asking price, shipped. I didn't want to trash "his" thread or see fellow members get the shaft.
Would you have posted a link? Please answer Yes or No.

stevedmc
01-17-2012, 04:18 PM
I have a question (for everyone actually).
If this is the way it is to handled, could the PM's be sent to buyer and/or seller?

I ask because all this relates to something bugging me over items being offered not too long ago. I noticed that they were priced significantly higher than they could be found on the net -- Exact same item(s) for ~2/3 the asking price, shipped. I didn't want to trash "his" thread or see fellow members get the shaft.
Would you have posted a link? Please answer Yes or No.

Are you talking about an eBay seller? Honestly, I'm tempted to start selling starters and alternators on ebay.

Ron
01-17-2012, 05:02 PM
Are you talking about an eBay seller? Honestly, I'm tempted to start selling starters and alternators on ebay.You know I'm not going to answer that...
Was that a yes or no?

stevedmc
01-17-2012, 05:06 PM
You know I'm not going to answer that...
Was that a yes or no?

Depends.

Ron
01-17-2012, 05:07 PM
No thanks, I'm not that old!

thirdmanj
01-17-2012, 05:22 PM
I don't agree with bashing of any kind in for sale threads. Take it to PM.

Eh?

SamHill
01-17-2012, 05:50 PM
Eh?

An exagerrated example:

"Your car/part/service is garbage/overpriced/performed by asshole therefore, it is only worth a coupon for a bowl of soup, or perhaps less."

Etc.

I've seen in happen on other auto boards where people talk down something someone else has just to try to get it cheaper themselves... or just because they can. Not that spite exists on these boards. I'm NOT talking about legit discussion, but abuse disguised as such.

thirdmanj
01-17-2012, 06:16 PM
An exagerrated example:

"Your car/part/service is garbage/overpriced/performed by asshole therefore, it is only worth a coupon for a bowl of soup, or perhaps less."

Etc.

I've seen in happen on other auto boards where people talk down something someone else has just to try to get it cheaper themselves... or just because they can. Not that spite exists on these boards. I'm NOT talking about legit discussion, but abuse disguised as such.

Ahhhh.

MDC - Mike C.
01-19-2012, 11:49 PM
For Sale section rules can now be found at the top of each "For Sale" section.

You can read the new rules here:



"For Sale" Section Rules




1. Items posted for sale in any section must be for items you personally own. Do not post ads for parts or cars you saw for sale online somewhere, including ebay ads that are not yours. These threads will be deleted.

2. All posts must include the following:

a. Price
b. Item's location (city, state or country *if located outside the US*)
c. Seller's Contact Information

3. A person may sell their item for whatever price they want. Please do not make any comments about their asking price being too high. If no one buys it, the seller can lower their price.

4. Persons wishing to sell items on DMCTalk.org MUST have a minimum of 20 posts (not including replies such as "lol", smilies, etc.) If you are not a member of this community, we would like to know you a little bit before you try selling items through DMCTalk.org. If you must sell an item earlier, please contact one of the Administrators.

5. If you are posting parts for someone else, you are responsible for the transaction. Make sure you really want to be the middle-man in the transaction.

6. DMCTalk.org, it's owners, administrators, moderators, etc. are NOT responsible for the items sold, or the transactions. We basically provide advertising space, that's it. No guarantees, warranties, etc. stated or implied.

7. Once an item has been labeled as SOLD, the thread will be locked so it can not be revived. If you wish to look up an old item, please use the "search" feature.

8. Members: STOP posting remarks like "free bump,good guy or good item”. If you are NOT going to purchase the items listed. Remarks like "you can get it cheaper at so and so place" are NOT allowed.
Again, do not post a question or remark if you do not intend to buy the item.

9. An item may be bumped by the seller every 10 days.

10. If you have a question about an item you have purchased (such as for shipping), please contact the SELLER VIA PM OR EMAIL. Do NOT start a thread inquiring where your item is.

11. Any seller scamming, or attempting to scam members of DMCTalk.org will be banned immediately.

12. Vendors offering items for sale may do so; however you may NOT counter offer a similar product or item in a competitor's thread. You may start your own thread and offer your bottom line price. Bidding wars will be deleted. You may do bidding on parts and services via PM.

dmcjohn
01-20-2012, 04:16 AM
4. Persons wishing to sell items on DMCTalk.org MUST have a minimum of 20 posts (not including replies such as "lol", smilies, etc.) If you are not a member of this community, we would like to know you a little bit before you try selling items through DMCTalk.org. If you must sell an item earlier, please contact one of the Administrators.


I think that rule above is a bad idea - totally excludes people who don't feel like being an active member yet have some interesting or rare parts for sale.

Also, I think the following 2 are contradictory:


1. Items posted for sale in any section must be for items you personally own. Do not post ads for parts you saw for sale online somewhere, including ebay ads that are not yours. These threads will be deleted.

...

5. If you are posting parts for someone else, you are responsible for the transaction. Make sure you really want to be the middle-man in the transaction.

MDC - Mike C.
01-20-2012, 09:12 AM
I think that rule above is a bad idea - totally excludes people who don't feel like being an active member yet have some interesting or rare parts for sale.

That's why they can simply PM one of us, and we will let the post stay up. As proven just a few weeks ago with that car that was posted for sale by a person who no one knew on the board, we were given no info on the car, just some snide answers that his was the best, and he wasn't going to waste time posting pics of it to sell. Then what's the point of posting it on DMCTalk.org? You can read more on this example HERE. (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2490-For-Sale-1983-Delorean-DMC-12-in-Toronto-Ontario-Canada)

The post count is there so people can at least get to somewhat know who you are buying from, and the seller can understand how to use the forum. I can make up a fake name right now, show you 20 pics of a pristine left front fender, have you send me 500 bucks, and you won't get a thing. This is why we decided on that rule. Honestly, if a person can't find time to comment on a minimum 0f 20 things on DMCTalk about DeLoreans with all the info we have on here, i'd worry about buying stuff from them.

We had a case last year where a person's husband passed away and she had some stuff, not too rare, but still some stuff she wanted to unload. She wasn't an active member on the forum, but in a case like that we would allow the post to stay, because she was actually maintaining her thread. We just don't want anymore people opening up accounts, making one 'For Sale' post saying they have a part for sale, then not bother checking PM's, Emails, or even their thread, so no one who actually needs this part can not bother wasting their time, or getting their time wasted.. This is one of the stipulations we would verbalize to the person when we grant them permission to make the post on DMCTalk-- If you are going to post an item for sale, you MUST update the thread, answer the questions people are asking about your item, and let us know when it is sold so it can be properly closed.


Also, I think the following 2 are contradictory:

Not so much. In regards to rule #5: This is for those people who have elder D owners that do not have access to the internet, but wish to sell items. It has happened a few times in the past. If you are willing to put up an ad for a part for sale as a middle man, and your friend screws a person out of the deal, you are going to be held responsible since you put the ad up. Im really not concerned with this happening again, but it did happen back in about 05 on the old forum. If you sell a part for someone, money is exchanged, and your friend doesn't send the part, you better be ready to reimburse the buyer, or be ready to mediate getting the money back. If you throw your hands up and say you want nothing to do with it, rule #11 will be enforced, and the parties can handle it in court.

Delorean Industries
01-20-2012, 09:21 AM
Sounds great to me.

So as it stands with vendor on vendor action. If one of us starts the thread the other should not post a response regarding a better deal. But on a thread started by any other member we can duke it out as always?

Just checking!

MDC - Mike C.
01-20-2012, 09:49 AM
Sounds great to me.

So as it stands with vendor on vendor action. If one of us starts the thread the other should not post a response regarding a better deal. But on a thread started by any other member we can duke it out as always?

Just checking!

Josh,

What we are referring to is we don't want another vendor chiming in to an ad a competitor places.
Say you put up a thread offering one of your exhaust systems for $1600.00. You put your contact info up, and everything is fine. Then say Bill Smith's Parts O Rama chimes into your thread offering a similar exhaust system for $1550.00 etc... Well, that's pretty rude to do to someone's thread.

What we would like vendors to do is start their thread, offer the price of their item, answer any questions people have about the offer in there. That's fine. If Bill Smith wants to chime in and offer a part for sale, he must start his own thread, with his own price, and his own contact info. If at some point, you wish to throw in a discount or something, you advertise it in YOUR thread. All is well with the world.

If it turns into an insult war between vendors, such as making comments like "why buy his when you can save money with mine" type of shenanigans, we'll simply close the threads, let you know why, and have you restart the ad again.

By all means, vendors can post up deals they have. This is open to any vendor. We want it to be a place where they can advertise any specials they are offering. But this is for ALL VENDORS. All have the same opportunity, and it should be a level playing field. We all help each other out, and it should stay that way. It's just puts a bad taste in the business sense when a vendor posts in another vendor's thread counter offering. There's no point, it's rude, and honestly looks bad.

Just keep your offer on your part up to date in your thread, adjust prices on your offer as you want, etc.


Now, in line with this are people ASKING for deals on parts (i.e. the "wanted" threads). If two of you are offering similar products, post up your prices in that thread, the other person posts up prices, and let the person choose who they want to go with. None of this "well, mine is better quality, so buy from me type crap" etc...


Hope that helps!

-Mike

dmcjohn
01-20-2012, 11:06 AM
Ok fair enough.

On a different note - was there a thread deleted regarding the Henry Ford Museum? I had posted a reply there as we are planning a trip out that way so would be good to hear if anyone has already been - but the thread has vanished. Granted, the OP did seem a bit spammy...

Thanks,
John

sean
01-20-2012, 11:08 AM
On a different note - was there a thread deleted regarding the Henry Ford Museum?

Yes

OP did seem a bit spammy...
And yes

stevedmc
01-20-2012, 11:28 AM
I think that rule above is a bad idea - totally excludes people who don't feel like being an active member yet have some interesting or rare parts for sale.

That rule is for our protection and it makes sense. Do you really want to send money to a complete stranger who you know little about? Requiring the person to at least post a little in the community before selling something helps the seller build a good (or bad) reputation and you can decide if you want to do business with that person based on this.

SamHill
01-20-2012, 12:06 PM
That rule is for our protection and it makes sense. Do you really want to send money to a complete stranger who you know little about? Requiring the person to at least post a little in the community before selling something helps the seller build a good (or bad) reputation and you can decide if you want to do business with that person based on this.

I support the anti-sock puppet provision!