DCUK Stainless Steering Shaft/Joint Set

[jawn101]

Got mine earlier this week and finally got it installed this weekend. Here are my initial impressions:

- Joints are really nice quality. Very flexible.
- Shaft is insanely thick. Three, maybe 4 times as thick as the original one.
- Everything fits just as it should. The bolts Martin supplies are very nice as well. They are hex heads with 13mm nyloc nuts, so you'll already have the right tools on hand. I used an SAE hex set as the 5.5 metric was too small and 6 was too large.

Assembly looks great, way nicer than the price would lead you to believe. Installation is conceptually easy but of course your own experience will vary based on skill and condition of your car. My car wasn't the problem - I was. I messed this job up in a couple of ways but nothing serious and nothing that I couldn't overcome with some help from Martin.

That brings me to my next point, Martin himself - stand up guy. Great communication, great service and an exceptional part at a very fair price. This part made the greatest single difference of anything I've done to the car to date.

Other notes:
- I installed this with the DPNW Delrin bushing and it fit with no problems.
- You'd be wise to have some long handled needle nose pliers or vice grips on hand to hold the column while you install the shaft, otherwise it will collapse back inside the car.
- I had to crank pretty hard on the bolt that connected the upper joint to the column in order to get it threaded through the depression in the column end - don't be afraid to do that. I was and it held me up for 2 days, but once I just pressed on there was no issue. Martin assures me that the bolts he supplies are more than strong enough to take this.
- Martin suggested (too late for me, sadly) that the easiest way to get the upper joint on is to work from the access panel in the trunk underneath the fuel/clutch fluid filler. I bet it would have made it a lot easier than working under the car.
- If I had to say anything negative it would be that the paint on the joints started flaking off during the install. But I installed and removed the assembly 5 or 6 times due to my own mistakes, so that was likely the culprit.

After installation the car is driving much smoother, handling a lot easier and no more lumpiness in the steering. My OEM U-joints were completely seized up - when I got the shaft out I couldn't bend them at all by hand. So this was a huge improvement.

Thanks again Martin!

[jawn101]

By popular demand.. pictures.

[Delorean Industries]

I have yet to see one of these in person. Is the shaft the only stainless part or are the U joints stainless as well? They look to be an exact OEM replacement which is awesome!

[jawn101]

I have yet to see one of these in person. Is the shaft the only stainless part or are the U joints stainless as well? They look to be an exact OEM replacement which is awesome!

I just added some pics above if we cross-posted and you didn't see them :) I am not certain if the joints themselves are stainless as they are painted, but the shaft is a huge chunk of stainless stock.

[DMC5180]

Are the Cast Yokes broach cut for the HEX stock? It kinda looks like 6 contact points in a round hole. The Joints appear to be cast steel like the original which is fine and keeps the cost to a minimum. You can always go high end with Toby's Custom ALL stainless version (beautiful piece)

[Delorean Industries]

Are the Cast Yokes broach cut for the HEX stock? It kinda looks like 6 contact points in a round hole. The Joints appear to be cast steel like the original which is fine and keeps the cost to a minimum. You can always go high end with Toby's Custom ALL stainless version (beautiful piece)

Note all vendors have access to the part DMCNW also sells. All components available from Borgeson.

[jawn101]

Are the Cast Yokes broach cut for the HEX stock? It kinda looks like 6 contact points in a round hole. The Joints appear to be cast steel like the original which is fine and keeps the cost to a minimum. You can always go high end with Toby's Custom ALL stainless version (beautiful piece)

Yes, the yoke holes are hex-shaped with deep channels for the bar stock to fit very tightly in. The DMC franchised all-stainless unit is definitely beautiful, but sometimes price has to be a factor. This setup is 1/3 the cost!

[DMC5180]

Note all vendors have access to the part DMCNW also sells. All components available from Borgeson.

I was aware of the Borgeson unit. I was also under the impression, The Spline size of the Column shaft and steering rack was a non-standard size that Toby or Darryl-T had to have those ends custom cut for the assembly. Either way the The cost of Pieces alone are quite high so you have to put in some Margin for profit.

Either way it is good to have options to consider. I doubt I would try to go rouge and piece one together . Not worth the trouble for me.

[Delorean Industries]

I was aware of the Borgeson unit. I was also under the impression, The Spline size of the Column shaft and steering rack was a non-standard size that Toby or Darryl-T had to have those ends custom cut for the assembly. Either way the The cost of Pieces alone are quite high so you have to put in some Margin for profit.

Either way it is good to have options to consider. I doubt I would try to go rouge piece one together . Not worth the trouble for me.

All off the shelf components from the manufacture. I stocked up on the joints only a few days prior to Martins solution. Which from a price stand point really does make sense. For many it is hard to drop 400 in a part plus install for something so simple.

[DCUK Martin]

Hi guys, thanks for the discussion and for Jon's glowing review!

The problem with the paint coming off the joints is not something I can address: I buy the joints in as they are, so I can't get the parts powdercoated prior to assembly. The bottom line IMO is that in terms of finish they're no worse than originals which when available were $$$ - and how good do you really need a steering joint to look anyway? You can't easily see it; what matters is that it works reliably.

The joints are way better than OEM DMC/Rover joints which have just peg-in-hole trunions. Modern roller bearing equivalents are used today on the Range Rover but unfortunately the shaft is too long and it's illegal to sell a welded steering components here in the UK. They're also pretty pricey.

The joints come from a production european car which has the exact splines on one side and a 17mm hex on the other. Putting a kit together was a no-brainer from there ;) As with everything I sell, it came from my own need to repair/replace without spending a fortune. I'd been repairing the original joints for a while but it annoyed me that they're so crap to begin with!

[sdg3205]

That's an interesting point you made, Jon.

In your opinion, does that seized steering shaft contribute significantly to the difficulty a lot of people have with unassisted steering?

Also, how did you get the old unit out? I loosened my bolts on each joint and hit the damn thing with a hammer but it wouldnt even budge.

[jawn101]

That's an interesting point you made, Jon.

In your opinion, does that seized steering shaft contribute significantly to the difficulty a lot of people have with unassisted steering?

Also, how did you get the old unit out? I loosened my bolts on each joint and hit the damn thing with a hammer but it wouldnt even budge.

Absolutely, no question. The difference was immediate and incalculably huge. It feels almost power assisted now. I love it.

I also learned that the bolt has to come all the way out of the upper joint before the column will release. There is an hourglass shaped indentation that holds it in place, not just friction. Not true at the rack end, that just has a flat spot to key the shaft insertion.

[jawn101]

Absolutely, no question. The difference was immediate and incalculably huge. It feels almost power assisted now. I love it.

I also learned that the bolt has to come all the way out of the upper joint before the column will release. There is an hourglass shaped indentation that holds it in place, not just friction. Not true at the rack end, that just has a flat spot to key the shaft insertion.

Should amend the above and say that the bolt *probably does* have to come all the way out at the rack end for the joint to release, but the indentation is shaped differently.

[Jeff K]

I think I installed this steering joint set upside down. Everything clears fine and fits fine. I see one side had a slightly curved piece (but the stamped part numbers are the same).. I guess that's the upper so it won't potentially rub.

Is there a problem or should I flip them? I'd really rather not, but safety first.

Jeff

[Martyn]

Got the joints on my car,and the steering rack rebuilt kit.

:thumbup: on those bad boys.

[DCUK Martin]

The curved section is to prevent rubbing on the bulkhead, however this won't happen on all cars so if it isn't rubbing on yours, it's fine

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

[Chris 16409]

Martin, are new track rod ends supplied with this kit?

[Jeff K]

The curved section is to prevent rubbing on the bulkhead, however this won't happen on all cars so if it isn't rubbing on yours, it's fine

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk

Whew! Thanks!

I didn't want to redo it.
Jeff

[DCUK Martin]

I include tie rod ends in my rack rebuild kit but not with the steering shaft

[kings1527]

All off the shelf components from the manufacture. I stocked up on the joints only a few days prior to Martins solution. Which from a price stand point really does make sense. For many it is hard to drop 400 in a part plus install for something so simple.

Hi Josh,

I have a question about the stainless steering shaft you sell. It looks like the DMCH/Toby unit only has one stainless U-joint but the unit you sell replaces the upper and lower U-joints with stainless? Is that accurate? I'm under the impression that the DMC unit leaves you with one OEM U-joint and one new stainless U-joint. Thanks!

[Delorean Industries]

Hi Josh,

I have a question about the stainless steering shaft you sell. It looks like the DMCH/Toby unit only has one stainless U-joint but the unit you sell replaces the upper and lower U-joints with stainless? Is that accurate? I'm under the impression that the DMC unit leaves you with one OEM U-joint and one new stainless U-joint. Thanks!

Ours includes the upper and lower joints along with the shaft. Not sure on dmchs current offering. I buy these in quantity through summit racing and some how receive a better price than directly with the manufactures best price break.

[SS Spoiler]

Twenty some years ago, my intermediate steering shaft got sloppy in the u-joint. Not having a lot of options for parts {already on Delorean Ones s___ list] I had a machinist friend Make a copy. Struggling to install it, I got the upper joint to slip on easily and tightened the pinch bolt....done. TWO YEARS LATER coming back from Aberdeen SD after dropping of my grand daughter I was tooling along at 70 MPH on back roads when the steering felt funny. Turning the wheel did nothing!!! Slamming on the brakes got me stopped in the ditch, just short of a slough. The steering wheel felt like nothing was connected and that was the truth. The upper u-joint that went on so easy had just pushed the steering column up a half an inch and the pinch bolt missed the groove that keeps it from falling off! It was held on by 3/8" and the grace of GOD. Two hours later working through the upper access panel only I was back on the road, having a greater appreciation of mechanics. Thinking of all the miles and mountain passes i've driven gave me pause. Know what your doing before any repairs!!!!

Paul Cerny
Kalispell,MT

[kings1527]

Ours includes the upper and lower joints along with the shaft. Not sure on dmchs current offering. I buy these in quantity through summit racing and some how receive a better price than directly with the manufactures best price break.

Thanks, Josh. One more question. The DMCH unit has sealed needle bearings which require no maintenance. Is that the same with your unit?

[DMC5180]

Josh,

Have you experimented with the the Vibration Isolation coupler made be borgeson? I read somewhere on here that somebody installed one and that they could feel a difference.

[kings1527]

Thanks, Josh. One more question. The DMCH unit has sealed needle bearings which require no maintenance. Is that the same with your unit?


Josh,

Have you experimented with the the Vibration Isolation coupler made be borgeson? I read somewhere on here that somebody installed one and that they could feel a difference.

Hi Josh,

Any info on these? I appreciate it!

[Patrick C]

Josh,

Have you experimented with the the Vibration Isolation coupler made be borgeson? I read somewhere on here that somebody installed one and that they could feel a difference.

I have it installed on my car. It does kill some of the 'road noise' you can feel through the steering wheel in a stock configuration.

[kings1527]

I have it installed on my car. It does kill some of the 'road noise' you can feel through the steering wheel in a stock configuration.


Thanks Patrick. Do you happen to have a part number for that? I'll probably pick one up. I'm looking at grabbing one of DPI's stainless steering shafts, too, but I'm wondering if its a sealed maintenance-free unit or not.

[Patrick C]

Thanks Patrick. Do you happen to have a part number for that? I'll probably pick one up. I'm looking at grabbing one of DPI's stainless steering shafts, too, but I'm wondering if its a sealed maintenance-free unit or not.

Call Borgeson at (860) 482-8283 and ask for Gil. He helped me piece together the correct length stainless shaft, stainless u-joint, and stainless vibration reducing u-joint. They have DeLorean in their system and just need to tweak things with the shaft length since the stainless vibration reducing u-joint is longer than the normal u-joint. The price was lower than I expected!

[Delorean Industries]

Call Borgeson at (860) 482-8283 and ask for Gil. He helped me piece together the correct length stainless shaft, stainless u-joint, and stainless vibration reducing u-joint. They have DeLorean in their system and just need to tweak things with the shaft length since the stainless vibration reducing u-joint is longer than the normal u-joint. The price was lower than I expected!

I have used one of the vibration reducers but with everything else we had installed the difference was difficult to tell. I'm sure the feel would have been much more responsive without the shocks all the way up and poly on all four corners.

[Jeff K]

I have it installed on my car. It does kill some of the 'road noise' you can feel through the steering wheel in a stock configuration.

Hey Patrick. I called Gil at Borgeson . Can I get your last name or invoice number? He will look up your order and duplicate it.

Thanks!
Jeff Klavir

[Patrick C]

Hey Patrick. I called Gil at Borgeson . Can I get your last name or invoice number? He will look up your order and duplicate it.

Thanks!
Jeff Klavir

PM sent.

[Jeff K]

PM sent.

Thanks!

[kings1527]

:facepalm:

Ugh...I'm embarrassed to even ask but I have to. I want to do this only once.

I just got my set in the mail with the vibration reducing coupling and that's my question: does that coupling install closer to the steering rack or closer to the firewall?

I'm guessing it's supposed to attach to the rack but I just want to be sure.

Thanks!

[Patrick C]

:facepalm:

Ugh...I'm embarrassed to even ask but I have to. I want to do this only once.

I just got my set in the mail with the vibration reducing coupling and that's my question: does that coupling install closer to the steering rack or closer to the firewall?

I'm guessing it's supposed to attach to the rack but I just want to be sure.

Thanks!

Closer to the rack.

[DMC5180]

Both of the two installed Borgeson SS shaft assemblies I've seen had the vibration reducer coupling at the rack end.

[DMC5180]

:facepalm:

Ugh...I'm embarrassed to even ask but I have to. I want to do this only once.

I just got my set in the mail with the vibration reducing coupling and that's my question: does that coupling install closer to the steering rack or closer to the firewall?

I'm guessing it's supposed to attach to the rack but I just want to be sure.

Thanks!


HMM, a little inspiration from working on a certain Louisiana car in a Hotel Parking lot last weekend. :biggrin:

Which version of the Shaft middle shaft assembly did you get? Round w/splines or Double D.

[kings1527]

HMM, a little inspiration from working on a certain Louisiana car in a Hotel Parking lot last weekend. :biggrin:

Which version of the Shaft middle shaft assembly did you get? Round w/splines or Double D.

Haha! Hey Dennis! Boy, you're spot on with that one! It's amazing what a late-night tech session can do for your motivation! It was great meeting you last week, by the way.

So that's what I thought made the most sense; more towards the rack. And the unit as a whole is pretty awesome. I'm very happy with it and I basically piggybacked my order based off the info on this thread. Gil was easy to deal with on the phone. The whole conversation took about 4 minutes.

I ended up getting round with splines. I gave him Jeff's name and told him to 'give me what he got'. I've had the new rack sitting in my second bedroom for awhile and after last week, I decided there's no better time than now. So before I even left Chicago, I called up Borgeson and placed my order. I also had Toby's Delrin column bushing sitting around, so I made it a trifecta today: rack, steering shaft, and bushing.

I used a ton of silicone spray to get the bushings on the rack in place and that made that whole operation 1,287 times easier. The difference with that operation between Steve's car and mine was night and day. The only hitch I ran into out of everything today was with the steering column bushing and getting the inner shaft of the steering column to slide within that wire screen under the dash. Mine was really stuck in there and I got it to come out by pulling hard on it a few times to get it to start to collapse. But now that I'm done and re-assembling, just getting the screen back in place is going to be awesome. I had to stop for the day before I could figure that puzzle out. I'm thinking I'll pull the entire column out of the car to get the screen back in place.

Do you have any other suggestions?

[DMC5180]

Haha! Hey Dennis! Boy, you're spot on with that one! It's amazing what a late-night tech session can do for your motivation! It was great meeting you last week, by the way.

So that's what I thought made the most sense; more towards the rack. And the unit as a whole is pretty awesome. I'm very happy with it and I basically piggybacked my order based off the info on this thread. Gil was easy to deal with on the phone. The whole conversation took about 4 minutes.

I ended up getting round with splines. I gave him Jeff's name and told him to 'give me what he got'. I've had the new rack sitting in my second bedroom for awhile and after last week, I decided there's no better time than now. So before I even left Chicago, I called up Borgeson and placed my order. I also had Toby's Delrin column bushing sitting around, so I made it a trifecta today: rack, steering shaft, and bushing.

I used a ton of silicone spray to get the bushings on the rack in place and that made that whole operation 1,287 times easier. The difference with that operation between Steve's car and mine was night and day. The only hitch I ran into out of everything today was with the steering column bushing and getting the inner shaft of the steering column to slide within that wire screen under the dash. Mine was really stuck in there and I got it to come out by pulling hard on it a few times to get it to start to collapse. But now that I'm done and re-assembling, just getting the screen back in place is going to be awesome. I had to stop for the day before I could figure that puzzle out. I'm thinking I'll pull the entire column out of the car to get the screen back in place.

Do you have any other suggestions?

Not really sure about the cage thing you described. One thing I did when I did my column bushing replacement, was to drop the steering column from the dash mounting points 2 M10 Nut side down bolts then pull the the shaft out of the column. It's a Double D profile so indexing is easy. Make note of the steering wheel position before you pull the inner shaft out. use that as reference then simply stick the shaft through the new bushing. At that point you could reconnect the U-joint. But I found easier too simply slide the column back onto the shaft and reattach to the dash mounting point. The Steering column and bushing are not in perfect alignment so it will bind slightly, which helps hold the shaft from pushing back through the bushing when you reinstall the upper U-joint. It may also be possible to drop the column simply by removing the adjustment pinch Knob thru bolt. Then remove the Guide pin tabs on either side. The Tabs have stop pins that limit the telescoping feature. Theoretically with the stop pins out of the slots you should be able slide the column out quite a bit with out separation. Watch out for wire harness connections. This would allow easy gripping of the lower shaft.

FWIW: I just peered under my dash and noticed something they may help you. I have my column full telescoped OUT. This exposes about 3 inches of the inner lower shaft between the cage end bushing and column bushing. You may be able to reach up there with your fingers and grip the shaft then push it through the new Column bushing. Once it is fully pushed through the bushing you should have not problem re-connecting things.

[kings1527]

Not really sure about the cage thing you described. One thing I did when I did my column bushing replacement, was to drop the steering column from the dash mounting points 2 M10 Nut side down bolts then pull the the shaft out of the column. It's a Double D profile so indexing is easy. Make note of the steering wheel position before you pull the inner shaft out. use that as reference then simply stick the shaft through the new bushing. At that point you could reconnect the U-joint. But I found easier too simply slide the column back onto the shaft and reattach to the dash mounting point. The Steering column and bushing are not in perfect alignment so it will bind slightly, which helps hold the shaft from pushing back through the bushing when you reinstall the upper U-joint. It may also be possible to drop the column simply by removing the adjustment pinch Knob thru bolt. Then remove the Guide pin tabs on either side. The Tabs have stop pins that limit the telescoping feature. Theoretically with the stop pins out of the slots you should be able slide the column out quite a bit with out separation. Watch out for wire harness connections. This would allow easy gripping of the lower shaft.

FWIW: I just peered under my dash and noticed something they may help you. I have my column full telescoped OUT. This exposes about 3 inches of the inner lower shaft between the cage end bushing and column bushing. You may be able to reach up there with your fingers and grip the shaft then push it through the new Column bushing. Once it is fully pushed through the bushing you should have not problem re-connecting things.

I think that's somewhat my problem. I can't remember if I had the telescoping handle tight or loose but I had to take my steering wheel and pull back with decent force to get the inner shaft to come back far enough so I could start to get the new column bushing in. I banged it back a few times so now my cage and my inner shaft are even right at the end. Obviously, I need to get the inner shaft back out of the cage so I can get it through the bushing and firewall and completely install everything again.

I pulled the entire steering column tonight and I can't see where or how to get the cage to slide back which would bring the inner shaft forward.

20079

I'm thinking I didn't do something right when I tried to get clearance on the firewall for the new bushing but there was no other way and people said the inner shaft just slides back and the cage stays around it.

[DMC5180]

I almost forgot, what was the Price tag and specific part number breakdown of the assembly you purchased?

I have a friend that is in the market for a new assembly. He recently installed a New DMCH rack with in the last year and asked me to drive the car for evaluation. I told him that the wheel had too much free play in it (about 1/2 inch). Since the rack was NEW I figured it must be in the U-joints. Sure enough after the short drive a quick inspection revealed the LOWER U-joint had significant play in it. He's now looking to replace it.

[kings1527]

I almost forgot, what was the Price tag and specific part number breakdown of the assembly you purchased?

I have a friend that is in the market for a new assembly. He recently installed a New DMCH rack with in the last year and asked me to drive the car for evaluation. I told him that the wheel had too much free play in it (about 1/2 inch). Since the rack was NEW I figured it must be in the U-joints. Sure enough after the short drive a quick inspection revealed the LOWER U-joint had significant play in it. He's now looking to replace it.

Gotcha. I drove you-know-who's and it was as tight as a drum. It was awesome and that made me go this route. My total tab was $285 and the breakdown is the following:

1 - Item #15xxxx (that's what it says) - Vibration U-Joint, Stainless, Special 736x536 ($133.63)
1 - Item #113412 - 3/4"-36 x 9/16" 36 Stainless U-Joint ($92.60)
1 - Item #419273 - 3/4" - 36 Splined Shaft, stainless, 11 3/4" long ($43.96)

Apparently the vibration reducing U-joint is a little longer than stock so that changes the length of the shaft itself. That might factor into your friend's situation.

[DMC5180]

I think that's somewhat my problem. I can't remember if I had the telescoping handle tight or loose but I had to take my steering wheel and pull back with decent force to get the inner shaft to come back far enough so I could start to get the new column bushing in. I banged it back a few times so now my cage and my inner shaft are even right at the end. Obviously, I need to get the inner shaft back out of the cage so I can get it through the bushing and firewall and completely install everything again.

I pulled the entire steering column tonight and I can't see where or how to get the cage to slide back which would bring the inner shaft forward.

20079

I'm thinking I didn't do something right when I tried to get clearance on the firewall for the new bushing but there was no other way and people said the inner shaft just slides back and the cage stays around it.

the cage is FIXED it does not slide independently of the column. It is the column housing. The inner shaft slides out of it. Can you carefully grip the splines with a needle nose pliers. You may be able to pull it out that way. If not then the alternative would be to pop the plastic bushing out of the cage. notice the round holes around the cylinder. Those are lock tabs that keep the bushing in place. If you push in and towards the end,the plastic bushing should come out. It will snap back in place when reinsert it.

[DMC5180]

Gotcha. I drove you-know-who's and it was as tight as a drum. It was awesome and that made me go this route. My total tab was $285 and the breakdown is the following:

1 - Item #15xxxx (that's what it says) - Vibration U-Joint, Stainless, Special 736x536 ($133.63)
1 - Item #113412 - 3/4"-36 x 9/16" 36 Stainless U-Joint ($92.60)
1 - Item #419273 - 3/4" - 36 Splined Shaft, stainless, 11 3/4" long ($43.96)

Apparently the vibration reducing U-joint is a little longer than stock so that changes the length of the shaft itself. That might factor into your friend's situation.


Thanks, Are you sure the one joint end is 9/16-36. I noticed their sight showed a 9/16"-26 spline option.

[kings1527]

the cage is FIXED it does not slide independently of the column. It is the column housing. The inner shaft slides out of it. Can you carefully grip the splines with a needle nose pliers. You may be able to pull it out that way. If not then the alternative would be to pop the plastic bushing out of the cage. notice the round holes around the cylinder. Those are lock tabs that keep the bushing in place. If you push in and towards the end,the plastic bushing should come out. It will snap back in place when reinsert it.

Ah ha. Ok. Well, that might be why it's not moving. Learning here. I guess just the vibration alone of me slamming the steering assembly jiggled the inner shaft backwards? Interesting. Funny you mentioned the plastic bushing. I was in the process of taking it out to mess with the shaft that way but it was taking some finesse with the side tabs and given my track record on this little nugget so far, I decided to leave it for another night. I'll go downstairs and try it one more time before calling it a night.


Thanks, Are you sure the one joint end is 9/16-36. I noticed their sight showed a 9/16"-26 spline option.

I double-checked my invoice and it definitely says 9/16-36. That looks to be for the upper. The anti-vibration lower is listed as 736x536. Again, I just told him to copy Jeff Klavir's order and he pulled it up within 30 seconds.

[DMC5180]

I just looked at your photo again. Just squeeze the opposing plastic lock tabs on the bushing where they protrude from the cage end and pull the bushing out. It should slide out fairly easily.

[DMC5180]

Ah ha. Ok. Well, that might be why it's not moving. Learning here. I guess just the vibration alone of me slamming the steering assembly jiggled the inner shaft backwards? Interesting. Funny you mentioned the plastic bushing. I was in the process of taking it out to mess with the shaft that way but it was taking some finesse with the side tabs and given my track record on this little nugget so far, I decided to leave it for another night. I'll go downstairs and try it one more time before calling it a night.



I double-checked my invoice and it definitely says 9/16-36. That looks to be for the upper. The anti-vibration lower is listed as 736x536. Again, I just told him to copy Jeff Klavir's order and he pulled it up within 30 seconds.

I guess you could verify the spline count by counting yours when the shaft is pulled out of the column.:biggrin:

[kings1527]

I guess you could verify the spline count by counting yours when the shaft is pulled out of the column.:biggrin:

Dennis: you are a good man, sir. You were exactly right. I pulled out the plastic bushing and then took some angled needle nose and pulled the inner shaft out by the bevel by about 5" or so. I could've sworn the cage was collapsing while I was first taking it out to replace the column bushing. I'm glad I didn't wreck anything.

And yes, I definitely have 36 splines. I counted it just now.

It's always nice ending the day's project on a good note. Now I can sleep.

This house...is clean....

[kings1527]

Can anyone confirm that their setup with these same components and a 11 3/4" shaft all fit? It looks like my steering shaft at 11 3/4 in length seems a tad too long. Unless there's a particular way/order all of it should go on and the day's fatigue is not letting me see it.

[DMC5180]

Post a photo so WE can try and see it. I have some thoughts but would like to see the photo of what you have done thus far. Give a good shot of the shaft coming through the column new shaft bushing.

[kings1527]

Post a photo so WE can try and see it. I have some thoughts but would like to see the photo of what you have done thus far. Give a good shot of the shaft coming through the column new shaft bushing.

Thanks Dennis. I think I have an idea where you're going with the shaft coming through the new column bushing. I tried tapping it back towards the cabin to see if that'd free up some room but out of fear I was going to be back in my previous predicament (I've since re-installed the steering column), I decided to hold off pushing it any further in.

It seems to be taking a lot of finagling to get this in and I don't think it should be that way. I know the anti-vibration coupling adds a little bit to the length and therefor I'd need a shorter shaft and I'm wondering if that's where my problem lies; I have a shaft that'd go with a coupling that's not anti-vibration.

2010220103

One pic shows how it's coming out of the firewall and I might revisit shortening that back into the firewall again. The other pic shows how I can't get the setup connected due to the length.

It seems like I'm making this one way complicated for what it is...

[DMC5180]

I'm gonna say install the whole 3 piece assembly as a unit onto the upper connection confirm you are getting maximum depth insertion of the shaft to the joints. Then try and attach the lower end to the rack. Like you, I find it odd that Borgeson doesn't have a long leg slip type joint for ease of assembly like the OE shaft did. If that does not work for you, you can always remove the Driver side RACK mount clamp and shift the rack forward a bit. That should allow the room you need if all else fails.

[kings1527]

I'm gonna say install the whole 3 piece assembly as a unit onto the upper connection confirm you are getting maximum depth insertion of the shaft to the joints. Then try and attach the lower end to the rack. Like you, I find it odd that Borgeson doesn't have a long leg slip type joint for ease of assembly like the OE shaft did. If that does not work for you, you can always remove the Driver side RACK mount clamp and shift the rack forward a bit. That should allow the room you need if all else fails.

Excellent, thanks Dennis. Great idea on the rack mount clamp. I was thinking that I can get the whole assembly on if I took the entire rack OFF again (which obviously I had no interest in doing) but I didn't think about removing just the driver's side rack clamp. That'll be plenty of room if it comes down to doing it that way. I'll try putting the whole assembly on first, like you mentioned. Thursday will probably be my next day tackling this.

Thanks again.

[DMC5180]

One thing to note and my memory is very foggy on this. When I was assisting with the driver side of mr R's car, I thought the long side of his Vibration joint was connected to the Rack shaft. He had the DD profile mid-shaft. I assume you can't swap ends due to different size splines. You may want to see if Jim recalls any specifics. I did not refit the joint, I think Jim did. It's hard to say want length the mid-shaft was, because the DD type used is easily shorten if it did not fit out of the box. You can't do that with the splined type.



Note to moderators: This thread should probable be split somewhere a couple pages back as the we are not referring to the DCUK/SS shaft assembly. It's the Borgeson SS assembly.

[kings1527]

One thing to note and my memory is very foggy on this. When I was assisting with the driver side of mr R's car, I thought the long side of his Vibration joint was connected to the Rack shaft. He had the DD profile mid-shaft. I assume you can't swap ends due to different size splines. You may want to see if Jim recalls any specifics. I did not refit the joint, I think Jim did. It's hard to say want length the mid-shaft was, because the DD type used is easily shorten if it did not fit out of the box. You can't do that with the splined type.



Note to moderators: This thread should probable be split somewhere a couple pages back as the we are not referring to the DCUK/SS shaft assembly. It's the Borgeson SS assembly.


Thanks for the recommendation on the split. Sorry to spin this thread out of control in a different direction.

I PM'd Jim and let him know about this thread. Hopefully he'll be able to weigh in. And yes, since I have the splined shaft, I can't make any adjustments to it. I'm considering returning the splined shaft and going with the DD. At that point, I could definitely make things work.

Plus, if I had to take off the driver's side rack bracket and slide it out to get the assembly in, wouldn't that be a headache for making sure my alignment is in order? At this point I'll have to center my wheel, attach the assembly, find the center point on the rack and then possibly disconnect the assembly from the rack again in order to get my wheel in order. I guess I could pull the wheel and re-adjust it that way but I don't know what that does for my turn signals.

I'm wondering if going with the DD shaft at a shorter length compared to what I currently have is going to provide for far less headache in the future. I think getting the rack centered along with the wheel might be a problem. What do you think with that? I'd actually have to return the entire assembly since all of the joints are splined.

On final thought, I think I can get all of this figured out with the stuff I have. I'll just have to undo the driver's side bracket and slide the rack out a hair and if I have to do it again to help the initial alignment with the wheel, then so be it.

Thanks!

[dmc6960]

Ok, here are my thoughts...

My shaft length is 12.75". Longer than yours given you have the vibration reducing u-joint and I dont. Your length sounds correct.

Make sure your steering column is sticking out the proper length through the bushing. The splines should end shortly before reaching the bushing, I do not recall exactly how far they should be, but they should not be touching the bushing. Needs to be all smooth there. Since the collumn telescopes, this section can move on you. If you end up needing a little more or less, you can move it accordingly.

Assemble everything LOOSE, do not yet tighten any set screws. In fact, remove them completely. You'll want to look down their holes for a later step.

With everything loose, you should be able to slide both u-joints much further into the splined shafts than they will normally ride when you tighten them all up. There should be enough room now to insert your splined intermediate shaft connecting the two ALL THE WAY into one of the u-joints. There should then be enough room to insert it into the other u-joint.

Now, you'll want to first insert and tighten the set screws on the steering collumn, and the steering rack. On the column, there is a full groove cut out along the whole circumference of the splined shaft. Make sure the set-screw hole is in the exact middle of this grove, and insert it and tighten it down snug, not super-tight yet. Do not yet install the lock nut either.

Next, on the steering rack's splined shaft, there is a flat section. Make sure that your set-screw hole is SQUARELY over the flat section. Remove and reinstall if this is not completely square on it. Insert set-screw and tighten snug. No lock nut yet.

Now, both u-joints will be installed in their proper positions, and you can now align the intermediate shaft 1/2 way between the two u-joints. Move it back and fourth, measure how much it moves, then move it exactly half that. Look into the set screw holes to make sure you see 100% metal. If you see the shaft end in either hole you need to adjust the intermediate shaft, of pull more steering collumn through the firewall/bushing. Once good, install set screws and tighten snug.

Spin steering wheel from lock to lock, note the rotations to lock, and hope you kept everything mostly centered. If your off, you can undo all this and re-seat the top u-joint into the steering column. This is something I wanted to do with Steve's car but we were really running out of time with that other storm coming.

Once you have everything verified as it should be, really clamp down on those set screws. I like to either use a pliers on the Allen-wrench, or use an Allen bit in a ratchet and crank it down. Now you can install the lock nuts, and where possible, use a socket instead of a wrench. Get those really tight as well.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[kings1527]

Ok, here are my thoughts...

My shaft length is 12.75". Longer than yours given you have the vibration reducing u-joint and I dont. Your length sounds correct.

Make sure your steering column is sticking out the proper length through the bushing. The splines should end shortly before reaching the bushing, I do not recall exactly how far they should be, but they should not be touching the bushing. Needs to be all smooth there. Since the collumn telescopes, this section can move on you. If you end up needing a little more or less, you can move it accordingly.

Assemble everything LOOSE, do not yet tighten any set screws. In fact, remove them completely. You'll want to look down their holes for a later step.

With everything loose, you should be able to slide both u-joints much further into the splined shafts than they will normally ride when you tighten them all up. There should be enough room now to insert your splined intermediate shaft connecting the two ALL THE WAY into one of the u-joints. There should then be enough room to insert it into the other u-joint.

Now, you'll want to first insert and tighten the set screws on the steering collumn, and the steering rack. On the column, there is a full groove cut out along the whole circumference of the splined shaft. Make sure the set-screw hole is in the exact middle of this grove, and insert it and tighten it down snug, not super-tight yet. Do not yet install the lock nut either.

Next, on the steering rack's splined shaft, there is a flat section. Make sure that your set-screw hole is SQUARELY over the flat section. Remove and reinstall if this is not completely square on it. Insert set-screw and tighten snug. No lock nut yet.

Now, both u-joints will be installed in their proper positions, and you can now align the intermediate shaft 1/2 way between the two u-joints. Move it back and fourth, measure how much it moves, then move it exactly half that. Look into the set screw holes to make sure you see 100% metal. If you see the shaft end in either hole you need to adjust the intermediate shaft, of pull more steering collumn through the firewall/bushing. Once good, install set screws and tighten snug.

Spin steering wheel from lock to lock, note the rotations to lock, and hope you kept everything mostly centered. If your off, you can undo all this and re-seat the top u-joint into the steering column. This is something I wanted to do with Steve's car but we were really running out of time with that other storm coming.

Once you have everything verified as it should be, really clamp down on those set screws. I like to either use a pliers on the Allen-wrench, or use an Allen bit in a ratchet and crank it down. Now you can install the lock nuts, and where possible, use a socket instead of a wrench. Get those really tight as well.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Wow, Jim. What an awesome tutorial! Thank you! I'm out of town right now but I'll be back at it on Thursday. I'm not real happy that your shaft is longer than mine but its nice to know my shaft will still work. :hysterical:

Thanks again and I'll let you know how it goes!

[dmc6960]

I'm not real happy that your shaft is longer than mine but its nice to know my shaft will still work.

Well, remember, the vibration-reducing u-joints are a little over an inch longer than the standard. 4 3/8" VS 3 1/4". I have two standards and a shaft 1" longer than yours. Thats an overall difference of just 1/8". It should work. Just follow my step-by-step.

[kings1527]

Well, remember, the vibration-reducing u-joints are a little over an inch longer than the standard. 4 3/8" VS 3 1/4". I have two standards and a shaft 1" longer than yours. Thats an overall difference of just 1/8". It should work. Just follow my step-by-step.

Will do. The other day, I was feeling 1/8" would give me what I needed. But I'll give it a go on Thursday. The very worst case scenario, I'll do what Dennis suggested and undo the driver's side rack bracket and get at it that way. I'll let you know what I find out. Thanks again.

[DMC5180]

Well, remember, the vibration-reducing u-joints are a little over an inch longer than the standard. 4 3/8" VS 3 1/4". I have two standards and a shaft 1" longer than yours. Thats an overall difference of just 1/8". It should work. Just follow my step-by-step. Based on the 1.125 differential the splined mid-shaft should be 11.625 instead of 11.75 I'm guessing that wasn't off the shelf option at Borgeson. Jim, I did not know you had the Borgeson shaft setup. If you had to do it again, would you try the vibration coupler for the extra $40 cost?

[dmc6960]

Jim, I did not know you had the Borgeson shaft setup. If you had to do it again, would you try the vibration coupler for the extra $40 cost?

Yea, I did that setup back in 2010 shortly before DCS, when I rebuilt the suspension with poly bushings, new front springs, LCA brackets, and Spax shocks.

Obviously the vibration reducer wasn't enough to take away the rack-play-induced vibration Steve had. I didn't drive it afterwards though. Even on my own car, with new tires/balancing, fresh alignment, direct-link borgeson steering shaft, and an 8 year/60,000 mile steering rack, I still have a tiny vibration at certain speeds. One thing I've never replaced though is the steering column bushing. Have a new one, just never put it in as the one in my car when I bought it has never failed. Checking it out this year though there is enough play it in to finally warrant my replacing of it. If I still have a slight vibration even after that, perhaps I'll revisit my steering shaft u-joints.

For an additional price of only $40 *when purchasing everything new*, I would not hesitate to do so.

[kings1527]

Based on the 1.125 differential the splined mid-shaft should be 11.625 instead of 11.75 I'm guessing that wasn't off the shelf option at Borgeson. Jim, I did not know you had the Borgeson shaft setup. If you had to do it again, would you try the vibration coupler for the extra $40 cost?

Ok. Well, that might be part of my problem right there. I was really close the other day but I'll try Jim's method and see what I can find. There's got to be a way to get this in place; definitely with moving the rack bracket out for a second.

If I decided to send everything back, is there an advantage to going with the DD shaft over the splined? Just curious. I was thinking that I could then cut it, if need be.

I'm stuck at work until Monday, so I won't be able to do anything until then. :-/

[DMC5180]

Pretty much.

The DD style shaft can be custom cut too any length and it won't effect it's physical engagement into the joints. Splined type shafts are pre-cut round stock that have the splines added after the fact. For the purpose of functionality the mid-shaft can be any style shaft as long as the opposite sides of the joints have the correct specified engagement splines for the factory splines.

[Delorean Industries]

Hi Josh,

I have a question about the stainless steering shaft you sell. It looks like the DMCH/Toby unit only has one stainless U-joint but the unit you sell replaces the upper and lower U-joints with stainless? Is that accurate? I'm under the impression that the DMC unit leaves you with one OEM U-joint and one new stainless U-joint. Thanks!

I'm not sure about the dmch offering but our steering shaft kit includes both the upper and lower u joints in stainless.

[DMC5180]

Wow Josh, Long day at work :ehh: You answered the question in the above post back in January. Post #21

[Delorean Industries]

Wow Josh, Long day at work :ehh: You answered the question in the above post back in January. Post #21

Who knows.... I think I need to put my head down.

[kings1527]

Success, men! I ended up going Dennis's route and undoing the driver's side rack bracket which allowed the rack to slide back plenty far, even though I only needed a tiny bit. Jim: thanks for the heads-up on the notches for the set screws to go into. I noticed the one on the steering column but the flat spot on the rack was faced opposite me and I don't know if I would've caught that.

Even though the shaft was technically just a hair too long (I tried everything, Jim...no luck), I thought it was kind of a good safety thing because there's no way my intermediate shaft can escape for any reason. The steering rack would have to fall out of the car first for that to happen. So, all's well. Thanks!

I'm going for a drive to Pasadena in about an hour so I'll have it on the road at speed and see how things are. I got the alignment pretty good, even though I'm off by only a couple of splines on the steering wheel. I tried taking my wheel off with a puller to make the very minor adjustment but it was stubborn and I was running out of time.

Toby's Delrin column bushing: check
Borgeson setup with anti-vibration coupling: check
New DMCH steering rack: check

Thanks again guys!

[DMC5180]

:thumbup:

For pulling the the wheel, I bought M6 x 1.00 x (110 L min. [shown] or a 120 L better option) bolts and some 3/16 large area washers (modified) drilled upsize a little and edge ground/cut. These lengths allow full threading into the wheel (about 3/4"). My bolts came from a local FASTENAL store, but I've seen longer length selections like these at GOOD Hardware stores.

20355 20356 20358


Some folks have had success using an air hammer on the center shaft. I find that a little too risky at possibly damaging things with a slip. Although If you leave the nut on a few threads but sticking above the end of the Shaft slightly that will act at a guide to keep the punch on the shaft end.


You can also have the wheel Centered during a [Recommended alignment] and they will adjust the tied rods accordingly if it's not to far out.

[kings1527]

Thanks Dennis. I should probably go with the regular alignment from a shop just to make sure everything is up to speed, since my tires have only about 1200 miles on them. But I might mess around with it more on my own and try to get it right since it's only a tie rod adjustment in the front (with proper toe in). I'd hate to have bad tread wear on my tires since they're so new and you know how tough it is to get good matching tires. They don't make my Dunlops to match anymore.

The puller I was using had a flat, blunt end and not the pointed end so it was slipping out of the notch but that's a good idea on threading that nut on for a couple turns to guide it.

I drove about 75 miles yesterday, mostly freeway, and everything is feeling good. The new rack is extremely responsive and of course having a new column bushing installed is a huge difference. The anti-vibration coupling is great but I was catching a little bit of vibration on some fairly rough streets. It wasn't perfect but on a scale of 0-10 with 10 being no vibration, before the install I was at a 3 including no remaining column bushing (glad the hole didn't get bored out) and now I'm at an 8.

[DMC5180]

Hi Alex,

My Puller has replaceable shaft tips (flat & Pointed). The last time I removed the wheel I only the flat end available. I tried it, but that did what yours did and kept walking off the end. My solution was to remove the tip (Shown in Photo's) the end of the shaft is domed (on mine) that was enough to keep the shaft screw centered in the steering shaft. It was not the preferred way to do it but it worked that one time.

There is no way to completely stop rough road (Bump Steer)feed back in the Delorean Steering. The best you can do is reduce the effects by tightening things up. Several items have been developed to help do that.

1. DMCEU LCA Stabilizer Links
2. DPNW Poly anti-roll bar bushing kit,
3. Anti-Vibration steering U-joint
4. Some say the Strut Bar helps stiffen the front end.
5. Shocks (adjustable preferred)

For alignment all you can do is front and rear toe on a stock delorean. Note: It is always a good Idea to have a few rear Adjustment shim washers on hand. If you the car is lowered, some folks have opted to put Adjustable Rear lower links in for Rear Camber adjustment.

An important step in the alignment process is setting the frame height. Follow the instructions given in the Service Bulletin. You may need to raise or lower the front to achieve the 5.5" frame to floor spec.

[kings1527]

Hi Alex,

My Puller has replaceable shaft tips (flat & Pointed). The last time I removed the wheel I only the flat end available. I tried it, but that did what yours did and kept walking off the end. My solution was to remove the tip (Shown in Photo's) the end of the shaft is domed (on mine) that was enough to keep the shaft screw centered in the steering shaft. It was not the preferred way to do it but it worked that one time.

There is no way to completely stop rough road (Bump Steer)feed back in the Delorean Steering. The best you can do is reduce the effects by tightening things up. Several items have been developed to help do that.

1. DMCEU LCA Stabilizer Links
2. DPNW Poly anti-roll bar bushing kit,
3. Anti-Vibration steering U-joint
4. Some say the Strut Bar helps stiffen the front end.
5. Shocks (adjustable preferred)

For alignment all you can do is front and rear toe on a stock delorean. Note: It is always a good Idea to have a few rear Adjustment shim washers on hand. If you the car is lowered, some folks have opted to put Adjustable Rear lower links in for Rear Camber adjustment.

An important step in the alignment process is setting the frame height. Follow the instructions given in the Service Bulletin. You may need to raise or lower the front to achieve the 5.5" frame to floor spec.


Thanks, Dennis. My fleaBay puller has only a flat tip and it doesn't come off so I'll get another one just to have it. I need to clean and re-dye the steering wheel anyways. But I saw that thread where it was talked about using an air chisel and I think I'll figure out another way rather than that. I'll mess something up with that. It looks like this is roll bar kit from DPNW that you're talking about:

http://delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1006DP-C

I think I'll have to go with that someday soon. And I hear what you're saying about not completely eliminating vibration; that'd be impossible and my steering already is night and day with the new rack and Borgeson system. I was spoiled after I drove Steve's car!

I'm going to mess around with the toe in a little bit and see if I can't get my wheel more centered without having to take it off. Jim mentioned to measure tread to tread and have 1/4" less in the front compared to the back so I'll try to accomplish that. I might just end up taking it in and having it professionally done (along with some extra shims for the rear; thanks for that). I'll keep working on the system as time goes by but for right now, I'm looking real good. Thanks again!

[DMC5180]

Thanks, Dennis. My fleaBay puller has only a flat tip and it doesn't come off so I'll get another one just to have it. I need to clean and re-dye the steering wheel anyways. But I saw that thread where it was talked about using an air chisel and I think I'll figure out another way rather than that. I'll mess something up with that. It looks like this is roll bar kit from DPNW that you're talking about:

http://delorean-parts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DPNW&Product_Code=K1006DP-C

I think I'll have to go with that someday soon. And I hear what you're saying about not completely eliminating vibration; that'd be impossible and my steering already is night and day with the new rack and Borgeson system. I was spoiled after I drove Steve's car!

I'm going to mess around with the toe in a little bit and see if I can't get my wheel more centered without having to take it off. Jim mentioned to measure tread to tread and have 1/4" less in the front compared to the back so I'll try to accomplish that. I might just end up taking it in and having it professionally done (along with some extra shims for the rear; thanks for that). I'll keep working on the system as time goes by but for right now, I'm looking real good. Thanks again!

Yup that's the Kit. It will also alleviate front end squeaks from the old Donut bushings (If you suffer from that annoyance).

Good Luck and Happy Driving :driving1:

[DMCSPRINT]

Hello was curious if anyone had pointers as to what could be causing my vibration/ knocking from front end. I recently replaced my shocks/springs with stainless LCA and coil over kit, everything felt great, put a new spec1 exhaust went great lots of added power felt , so then I figured I would make it even better. My car drove really well had some vibration from left front wheel area which smoothed out at higher speeds, so my tech check wheel bearings felt tight but had some slop / play in rack so I purchased a rebuilt rack and stainless column with dampener thinking this would make the car feel even better. I was wrong, car felt like something was loose in front end, vibration knocking noise in front, we adjusted the column with the ends rotating at 90 degrees still bad. Have checked everything over and over all tight and secure. I'm about at the point that I'm going to remove all this and put my old stuff back in. Really upsetting as I thought this would make the car drive great. Any body had this experience after replacing rack and column and what finally fixed it? Thanks

[Drive Stainless]

Hello was curious if anyone had pointers as to what could be causing my vibration/ knocking from front end. I recently replaced my shocks/springs with stainless LCA and coil over kit, everything felt great, put a new spec1 exhaust went great lots of added power felt , so then I figured I would make it even better. My car drove really well had some vibration from left front wheel area which smoothed out at higher speeds, so my tech check wheel bearings felt tight but had some slop / play in rack so I purchased a rebuilt rack and stainless column with dampener thinking this would make the car feel even better. I was wrong, car felt like something was loose in front end, vibration knocking noise in front, we adjusted the column with the ends rotating at 90 degrees still bad. Have checked everything over and over all tight and secure. I'm about at the point that I'm going to remove all this and put my old stuff back in. Really upsetting as I thought this would make the car drive great. Any body had this experience after replacing rack and column and what finally fixed it? Thanks


When do you hear the knocking noise?

[DMCSPRINT]

When do you hear the knocking noise?

Anytime you go over rough road or bump in road. I did also notice that if I push on bumper area when Parker up and down the noise can be heard . When driving you could feel it through the floorboard almost so we rotated the column ends and now it's not as bad through the floorboard but the vibrations are still felt and knocking type noise heard it may be some adjustment but it all llooked
pretty straightforward putting together


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drive Stainless]

Anytime you go over rough road or bump in road. I did also notice that if I push on bumper area when Parker up and down the noise can be heard . When driving you could feel it through the floorboard almost so we rotated the column ends and now it's not as bad through the floorboard but the vibrations are still felt and knocking type noise heard it may be some adjustment but it all llooked
pretty straightforward putting together


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, that makes it easier to troubleshoot, since you can check whether you fixed the noise without driving the car.

Did the noise only show up after you installed the new steering rack? I would suspect a problem with the suspension, which means calling DPI Josh for help.

[Delorean Industries]

We texted earlier. Sounds like shocks are tuned all the way down and have zero resistance.

[DMCSPRINT]

Yes , after texting with Josh sounds like one of the techs at my work might have been playing around at my expense and turned the setting all the way down. Not funny! [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk