Manual Trans Lip Seal and o ring

[coreydmc]

I need to replace by transmission lip seal and orings on both side. This is the seal where the drive shafts are. I know it is a renault trans. What info do I need to buy these from a local auto store?

[Nicholas R]

I highly doubt you'll be able to find them at a local parts store. Unless you can find another production vehicle with the Renault UN1 369 transmission that is more prominent than the DeLorean which already no one carries parts for. Pretty unlikely since the transmission only works in a rear engine car and there certainly aren't many production rear engine cars in the US.

Besides even in the very unlikely event you find them they'd probably be the old ones with felt seals in them. If you're going to the trouble to do the job, you should get the newer ones offered by DMC.

[coreydmc]

ok thanks!

[jawn101]

ok thanks!

See this link for more detail than you ever wanted....

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2569-CV-Joints-and-Lip-Seals

[coreydmc]

can i replace these seals with the trans still in the car?

[jawn101]

can i replace these seals with the trans still in the car?

Yes... read that thread :) Lots of pics of Clint and I doing them on my car towards the end. Basically a step by step. If you've never done it before be careful though, there is some definite margin for error. You can end up making things worse if you're not careful.

[coreydmc]

i browsed the thread. It said things were int he way and trans needed to be out of car. When I looked at my car I thought I had plenty of room. I am just checking

[jawn101]

Check pages 5, 6 and 7, you'll see how to do it. Nothing really in the way. Get the rear end up, lose the drive axles and go at it. Be careful when you punch out the flange retaining pin that you don't lock it against the frame, otherwise pretty straightforward.

[Nicholas R]

No problem. I just did these on my car and after all the work it ended up being, I was not about to use anything but the best. Dave at DMCMW had a spreadsheet of transmission parts that should consider replacement. The list will be a lot shorter if you dont plan on opening the transmission but still, some good stuff to consider.

[jawn101]

No problem. I just did these on my car and after all the work it ended up being, I was not about to use anything but the best. Dave at DMCMW had a spreadsheet of transmission parts that should consider replacement. The list will be a lot shorter if you dont plan on opening the transmission but still, some good stuff to consider.

+1, Dave knows this thing inside and out. He gave me the same list (I'm assuming), and all the parts we replaced were pretty sorry looking once they came out.

[Morpheus]

No problem. I just did these on my car and after all the work it ended up being, I was not about to use anything but the best. Dave at DMCMW had a spreadsheet of transmission parts that should consider replacement. The list will be a lot shorter if you dont plan on opening the transmission but still, some good stuff to consider.

Might you have a copy of this fabled spreadsheet?

[David T]

Do not replace the "O" ring seals. Do NOT remove the carrier nut. The output seals on both sides can be replaced with the transmission in the car and without removing that nut. If the output flanges have grooves worn into them from the old seals, you can use a Speedi-Sleeve or you can replace them or you can have them welded up and machined. This is a perfect time to remove the half-shafts and replace the C/V boots and relube the joints. Do not let the half-shafts hang loose. You will bend the outer flange that holds the C/V boots. Be sure to check the level in the transmission.
David Teitelbaum

[David T]

To replace the parts inside you will have to remove the transmission. That will probably mean replacing the clutch too. If the transmission is shifting well you should not need to do that.
David Teitelbaum

[jawn101]

Might you have a copy of this fabled spreadsheet?

I think it's more of a case by case thing, but when I told him I had no specific issues other than weepy output shaft seals and the symptoms of a potentially bent 2nd gear roll pin, he gave me this list for a "major overhaul". I've also added some of my own parts to the list for completeness sake.



MW000001 (x2) - Midwest's specialty output shaft flange sleeve (you can just replace the output flange with 2x 110539 instead)
103219A (x1) - MW's reinforced 2nd gear roll pin (just a normal roll pin with another one, one size down to jam inside it) - I am also replacing all the other roll pins in the shift mechanism just to be thorough - these are 103195 x1 and 103219 x5 (one fewer than the parts diagram calls for since you have the reinforced one for 2nd gear)
103177 (x1) - clutch shaft seal
103103 (x1) - O ring for end of input shaft
SP10090 (x2)- flange retaining pin. I bought these but ended up reusing my original ones anyway
103001 (x1) - casing end gasket
103000 (x1) - casing end gasket for the other end (linkage cover)
104216 (x2) - or equivalent - these are the lip seals, don't use the NOS ones but get upgraded ones from your vendor
103013 (x1)- O ring for under the diff adjusting nut
103101 (x1) - gear shaft end nut - these are meant to be single-use staked nuts. DMCH shows them as NOS and out of stock, but Toby at Northwest has them or a direct replacement available for a whopping $1.50.
103076 (X1) - secondary shaft end nut - these are meant to be single-use staked nuts
103132 (x4) - half bushing for the linkage pivot, just in case they're worn when you get in there
103131 (x1) - bellows for the linkage to the trans, this is a rubber part and may be deteriorated. Check yours to verify, I got it anyway since there's no better time to do it
103177 (x1) - input shaft lip seal
103120 (x2) - final drive o-ring for output pinions
"While you're in there" - clutch kit from your favorite vendor. Be sure it includes the disk, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing and an alignmnent tool if you don't have one.
When doing the clutch, you have to resurface the flywheel. I've heard that it can be difficult to get the stepping correct, so I'll point out that Josh at DPI offers a very generous flywheel advance core exchange. He'll send you a nice newly surfaced one for $85 and you just send your old one back when you're done. $85 is a hell of a deal since that's basically what you'd pay locally to have it done, and who knows if it will be right - plus you can support a vendor.
Now is the time to upgrade to a stainless clutch line if you haven't already
Now is also the time to fix your rear main seal if it's leaking. Mine sure as hell is. This is a 2 part seal - the inner lip seal and a gasket holding the retaining plate. Hervey includes both in his clutch kits and other vendors may as well.
Now is also the time to clean up/rebuild your drive axles and put new boots on them. All the vendors sell axle boot kits.
This is also your big chance to assess whether the transmission mounts are still viable. If not, replace them.
Also a great time to assess your linkage and replace the pivot bolts in the bellcrank, the bushings and bushing sleeves if necessary.


You'll also need the typical stuff on hand - gasket sealer, anaerobic red gasket maker to seal the case halves together, plenty of good quality transmission oil, plenty of brakleen or degreaser, locktite, clutch fluid, etc.

[DMCMW Dave]

Do not replace the "O" ring seals. David Teitelbaum

He's talking about the 0-ring seals 103120 at the inner end of the stub axles. They can be done from outside simply by removing the axle flanges. It is easier (and safer) with the seals removed.

I agree, there is seldom any reason to replace the o-ring around the adjuster nut 103013, and no reason to remove the adjuster nut(s). The service manual is wrong.

[jawn101]

He's talking about the 0-ring seals 103120 at the inner end of the stub axles. They can be done from outside simply by removing the axle flanges. It is easier (and safer) with the seals removed.

I agree, there is seldom any reason to replace the o-ring around the adjuster nut 103013, and no reason to remove the adjuster nut(s). The service manual is wrong.

So now you guys have me curious about the adjuster nut. Aside from having to fashion a tool to get it out, we didn't have any difficulty doing so, and nothing seems any worse off afterwards. We marked how it was installed, counted the revolutions to remove, and reinstalled with the same number of revolutions and lined the marks up. It seemed pretty straightforward. But we only did it because the manual said to, and the manual has been known to be wrong (reverse gear, anyone?)

So why are the Daves saying not to remove it? I don't disbelieve you guys at all but am intellectually curious. What horrors are waiting for me now that I've done it? What mistake did I (hopefully) get lucky not to make?

[DMCMW Dave]

So why are the Daves saying not to remove it? I don't disbelieve you guys at all but am intellectually curious. What horrors are waiting for me now that I've done it? What mistake did I (hopefully) get lucky not to make?

The reason not to remove it is that you don't really need to (that o-ring rarely leaks, and if it does it is probably because someone screwed with it), and there is always the chance it will go back on too tight or too loose, or, in the case of an automatic, with the gear lash set wrong.

The manual implies that you need to remove it simply to change the outer seal, which is just wrong. The seal can be pried out with the nut in place.

[jawn101]

The reason not to remove it is that you don't really need to (that o-ring rarely leaks, and if it does it is probably because someone screwed with it), and there is always the chance it will go back on too tight or too loose, or, in the case of an automatic, with the gear lash set wrong.

The manual implies that you need to remove it simply to change the outer seal, which is just wrong. The seal can be pried out with the nut in place.

Ah, OK - I get it. More of an "if it ain't broke don't fix it" warning than a harbinger of impending doom. That makes me feel better :) Now I just hope we did it right.

[David T]

That nut puts the preload on the carrier bushings and is a very specific adjustment. If you lose it the only way to properly reset it is to remove the transmission and disassemble it. A lot of work just because you took out the nut and it isn't necessary to replace the seal. Yes, the picture in the Workshop Manual fig 14 F:06:02 is WRONG! It can't hurt to replace the "O" rings on the output shafts but not really required. A smear of gasket sealer is all you really need unless the rings are cut or torn. If you carefully marked the exact position of the nut and counted the turns, you should be OK. This is one of the few cases where the manual is just completely wrong. (There are a couple of other things but most people will never find them).
David Teitelbaum

[Azar]

Hello, sorry for bringing the old thread. but perhaps my question is appropriate here. We got the manual gearbox open and replaced all gaskets. Also replaced the double lip seal 104216 (preventively) and O-ring seal 103013. Now, the left side is leaking oil when the vehicle is stationary. The drive flanges 110539 looked good and did not have any grooves.
Do you think this is because of the bad (new) seal and buying the "Upgraded Triple Lipped Drive Shaft Seal" from Delorean Go might help fixing the oil leak?
https://www.deloreango.com/de/drive-shaft-differential-seal.html
Thank you!

[Azar]

Looks like I have the same issue as here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?11586-Transmission-Flange-Oil-Leak-From-Split-Pin&p=268129#post268129

[DMCMW Dave]

Looks like I have the same issue as here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?11586-Transmission-Flange-Oil-Leak-From-Split-Pin&p=268129#post268129

Is it the same as the other one (leaking from split pin)? See answer there.

[Azar]

Yes Dave, I have answered you there. Thank you!