Heated AND Cooled Seats

[dmc6960]

Well, after a 2 year delay, I'm finally starting on this project. I certainly got my plate full for the next 2 months with this, additional soundproofing, windshield replacement, general maintenance, and of course the prototype new instrument cluster.

General Design -

I am proceeding with a basic design using resistive heating pads, and forced air through channels in the seat foam. Seat cover will be a non-standard DMC perforated seat cover, in all grey instead of two tone.

Seat Cover - This was a custom order I placed through DMC. I had asked if I could get a perforated seat cover in all grey instead of two tone. They said they could, but I would have to wait until their next production run. No problem I thought. At the time I placed the order (summer 2009) they anticipated their next run was going to be around September. Well this was around the time the recession was really taking a toll on folks. And wouldn't you know it, but sales of certain non-essentials, like seat covers, dropped dramatically. As a result, the next production run kept getting pushed off again and again as DMC was not selling out as quickly as they thought. All of this I completely understood and happily waited for the day when they would be made. This finally happened in late spring of 2010, and thanks to the effort of James and Dave, I was able to pick up my box of new covers at DCS '10. The box was then my companion on my drive home.

Heating pads - I've looked at a lot of different styles and designs. And as it would be, the cheapest one will work out best for me. I'm ordering pads which are 11" by 18", have criss-cross carbon elements, and have two heating settings...

http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/pecafidutewa.html

One thing to note about heating elements, is you do NOT want them constantly bending. The width of these elements has the potential for that issue given the width of the seat's bucket. I plan to alleviate the issue by channeling the outer sides of the pad within the seat's side bolsters. Also note this is a solid pad, which would not allow airflow for seat cooling. I plan to modify them myself by punching small holes in the material between each carbon element. This will essentially make it a perforated pad. The only other heating pads I've found which were built to allow airflow just had 3 large slots. Not what I wanted.

Cooling - Cooling is going to occur by forced air. Fans will blow air into the seat, and it will exit through the perforated leather. I've done TONS of research on different ways to cool seats. A very effective but complicated method is by a by a water loop. I opted not to go with that route as I had already purchased the perforated covers and didn't want two additional glycol loops in the car. The forced air option leave the ability to blow in cabin air, ducted AC air, or cold-plate conditioned air. I'm going to build them initially with just cabin air, but the design will allow changing to AC or cold-plate design if I desire. They will be taking in air from the very bottom of the passenger cabin, which since cool air sinks, can actually get quite cold from a constantly running AC system trying to cool the whole cabin. So while they will not provide instant relief after getting in a hot car, they should still provide a significant increase in comfort on a long hot drive (Minneapolis to Orlando anyone?!?)

More Cooling - Instead of buying what seems to be the only kit available to cool an automotive seat, I've decided to build my own. I was not satisfied with what I saw of the kit. I've seen many people use a standard 80x80mm computer case fan, usually two per seating section, blowing strait through a cut hole in the foam and onto the passenger. I've decided to go with a completely different design. Instead I will use a 120mm blower fan, designed for high static pressure and moderate airflow.

http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/BFB1212GH-AF00/603-1383-ND/2560507

The blower style gives a significant boost in the available static pressure, allowing the air to be forced through small openings better. This is very important in an application like a seat where the weight of the occupant will be fighting against what your trying to do. There will be one fan per seating section, blowing in a duct which will direct it towards the rear/bottom, then channels/tubing will assist the air past the heaviest weighted part towards the least weighted front/top where the majority of the air will exit. For the material to be placed above the channels/tubes I'm considering this material...
http://www.ahh.biz/mesh/military/images/mesh_fabric_nylon_iotv_enlarged.jpeg
This material seems like it would allow airflow even when weighted upon, due to the distributed nature of one's ass. This is the one component which I'm still not 100% on. The other option would be to find some kind of firm articulated foam.

Controls - For right now, given the lack of time and my other projects, there will be no permanent wiring/controls put in place for it. I'll leave the switches for the heater alone and wire up a generic extra switch for the cooling fans. Probably this fall, the permanent controls will be put into place. There will be one window switch per seat controlling both the heating and cooling. One arrow will be blue, to activate the cooling on high, another push will activate low, and another push again will put it on high again. To turn it off of cooling push the other arrow, the red one. The red will control the heat in the same manner, first push high, second push low, third push high again, and blue (cooling) will turn it off. They will be placed in the outermost portions of the center console where the dummy switches are.

Pictures and diagrams to follow as I start the install process.

[DavidProehl]

Glad to hear this project is underway. As usual for you, a very ambitious project. You have clearly done your research, it sounds like you are well on your way! Can't wait to see the updates on this project.

[dmc6960]

Got started on the whole project yesterday evening. Started by removing the passenger seat. Once last picture of a moderately used 31 year old 120k mile DeLorean seat...
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Setting the new covers over the seat to compare. The original covers had a distinctive blue tint to them, especially compared to the new covers. Unsure if that is due to age and wear, or if it truly had that in it. Either way, I like the new grey better and will be using it to best match up a dye to spray the rest of the interior with once the windshield is removed (two separate projects).
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Started disassembly with the pack panel. I've seen cars where these panels are constantly popping off and falling out. Mine have never done that and I actually had a moderately difficult time removing it, partially due to paranoia about damaging it to the point where it would start falling out.
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I began removal of the rear cover. A wire cutters were best at pulling out the hog rings. Just pinch them at one side and pull. They will open up and pop out on their own with minimal effort. They appear to be made of brass. After they were all removed from the rear (including the two center channels) I tried pulling the cover off only to get caught on the headrest. It would appear that each grove had 5 hog rings of their own. These were moderately difficult to remove, and I see now why they often do not get reinstalled. Doesn't mean I still wont try it on my own though...
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Once the back cover was off, I moved on to the bottom. At this point I had to remove the rails, as they were blocking several of the hog rings. You can also see that my bottom rubber is still in great shape and undamaged unlike many cars. I'm also missing two of the clips holding on one of the side channels of the cover. If you go back to the first image you can tell its not pulled down as much on one end.
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Once all the perimeter rings were off, I needed to remove the clips holding down the center channels. I could not find these two specific parts on DMCH's website. I'm yet unsure how I will substitute for them. This is how they attach...
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Finally, I was presented with a bare seat. The foam appears significantly more aged than I would have expected for something completely covered for 30 years. Could have something to do with the affect of heat and direct sunlight on the seat.
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Part of the modification work going into the heating and cooling will involve cutting some channels into the foam. I also like really soft-squishy seats, so I will also be experimenting and working with some memory foam from a mattress topper I've had in storage for a few years. The new seat covers already have *some* additional foam sewn into them. I hope to find the perfect combination of original and additional to give the seats a little extra plush-ness while still maintaining their support, comfort, and modifications necessary for climate control. I do plan to steam the original foam as well, which will bring it back to its original shape before being constrained by a cover for 30 years.

One last picture of the new cover held up to the garage lights. Every dot you see is light shining through. These will soon all work in unison to cool me and any lucky passenger down on every drive...
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I did end up ordering that vented-nylon fabric today. I will use it directly under all areas of the seat which are perforated.

[1batt4u]

Very nice!!! Interesting idea!!!

Now stick to the new instrument cluster, I really need one!!!!! :wave: lol

[dmc6960]

Got the fans in today. One perk of living in the same state as a major electronics distributor. Did some placement checks. I may just go with a single fan per seat, located on the bottom. The rear section would be fed through a flexible tube behind the two.

To get the fan to properly fit below the seat, it may be necessary to reinforce the rubber bottom pad with something much more substantial. Despite both seats being in excellent condition, I was comparing the difference between the bare seat on the garage floor, and the drivers seat still mounted in the car. The rubber pad really squishes down low, and I'm not a terribly heavy person. The seat on the garage floor did feel more comfortable from a general standpoint. So I did a little experiment with the other seat still in the car. I put a few boards underneath held up by the adjustment bar, which had the affect of completely stopping the rubber from sinking down. Seat was noticeably more firm on the bottom, but also mildly more comfortable. So it looks like I'll be doing something for reinforcement there after all.

Also did some quick tests with the memory foam I have. It's about 4 inches thick and much more squishy than I realized. I tried a piece on the middle of the bottom cushion and it didn't really make much of a difference. However I also tried it on the back piece and that really felt comfortable. So there will definately be a bit going in there. We'll see how much give the new covers have to allow it. I will also consider it going on the side bolsters for the bottom cushion, but I didn't really play around with that tonight.

Hopefully next week both the heater pads and the vented fabrics will arrive and I can get everything finalized. Could have this completely done in two weeks if all goes well.

Don't get your hopes up too quickly about the cluster. It'll still be at LEAST a year if not two before I have a sellable product there.

[1batt4u]

Interesting idea with the window switch for the controls! Would be nice if you can have caps with the seats laser etched on the caps!

[dmc6960]

Using different color LEDs one arrow will illuminate blue, and the other will illuminate red. Perhaps in a year or so when I build a custom armrest section for the center console there will be a dedicated decal identifying the switches.

[DMCMW Dave]

Also did some quick tests with the memory foam I have. It's about 4 inches thick and much more squishy than I realized. .

Have you ever used memory foam otherwise, i.e. a pillow or mattress? It is extremely temperature sensitive - hard a rock when cold, softens up when warm. This may not be a good thing in a car.

[AdmiralSenn]

I am so happy you are doing this, because I have been holding off on my seat reskin project until there was an option to make this happen.

I look forward to riding on the shoulders of a giant when you finish.

[dmc6960]

hard a rock when cold, softens up when warm. .

Which is why I have a sample in the freezer right now. This is probably fairly low-grade stuff. I've had it compressed in a bag in the garage for over 2 years, probably 3. Been through lots of temperature extremes and still puffed back up where it was supposed to be when I opened the bag last week.

[dmc6960]

Yea, the foam failed the freezer test. Next week I'll be searching for a high quality foam with approximately the same characteristics as what I have except in a non-temperature sensitive form.

[dmc6960]

I'll be visiting an upholstery store this afternoon to find a suitable alternative to the memory foam I have. I'll be looking for something of near equivalent feel at the room temp of the memory foam, with equal performance across a temperature range.

I did get the seat heaters in over the weekend. They are a sewn felt pad with carbon elements between two leads. Using a grommet punch, an opening between each carbon element is being cut out to allow for air circulation through the pad. Each punch will only cut one row of stitching in the felt, leaving about 4-5 intact rows between each cut one to hold the whole pad together. My sister-in-law is really excited about what I'm doing to my seats and offered to do all of the hole punching. All four heating pads are now in her hands to complete.

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I'm contemplating only installing a single fan on the seat bottom, then running a small flexible duct up to the back piece. Haven't completely decided yet, will see how much airflow I get on the initial bottom pad tests. I'm still waiting for the expanded nylon mesh fabric.

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[Spittybug]

I really hope that your little fan there can put out enough volume (and more importantly, pressure) of air to make a difference. I fear it won't however. Has anyone examined what the high end autos that offer air conditioned seating actually use? Maybe you need one of those new kind of hand dryer motors found in bathrooms. Excelerator I think is the name. Some SERIOUS power there.

Watching intently......

[Bitsyncmaster]

I would think an array of tubing that can carry cooled liquid would be best but what an effort.

[dmc6960]

I really hope that your little fan there can put out enough volume (and more importantly, pressure) of air to make a difference. I fear it won't however. Has anyone examined what the high end autos that offer air conditioned seating actually use? Maybe you need one of those new kind of hand dryer motors found in bathrooms. Excelerator I think is the name. Some SERIOUS power there.

Watching intently......

You must not have read the specs on the fan I linked to in the first post. A sample of the most important details...


Noise 65 dB(A)
Static Pressure 4.094 in H2O (1019.8 Pa)
Air Flow 60.4 CFM (1.71m³/min)
Bearing Type Ball
Operating Temperature 14 ~ 140°F (-10 ~ 60°C)
Current Rating 3.30A
Voltage Range 5.5 ~ 13.2VDC
Life Expectancy 50000 hrs @ 40°C

Noise would be a factor if it were out in the open, its a pretty loud fan. But being located under the seat will help tremendously along with some noise baffles I'm considering installing near the air intake tract.

Static pressure is huge. In fact, this is the highest static pressure of any 12v blower Digikey sells. Its also the reason I choose the "blower" type of fan, because they produce the highest static pressure. Its probably not enough to inflate the seat like a balloon, but it will certainly push air through it especially with the helper tubes/channels which will be going into it.

Airflow is sufficient, but not huge. Static pressure is more important in this application since the air has to push through a lot of resistance.

Operating temperature range isn't as high as I would like it. It'll never be operating in 14ºF temps, but it will certainly be over 140ºF on those hottest summer days when its turned on. Since it will be working in unison with the AC though, it should quickly cool down being on the lowest part of the interior and actively sucking air.

[dmc6960]

I would think an array of tubing that can carry cooled liquid would be best but what an effort.

Agreed and Agreed. A liquid loop would need two 12v pumps (one for each seat), the cooling loops in each seating section, hydraulic quick-disconnects going into the car body, a fill tube (per loop), air purge (per loop), air pocket (per loop, for expansion/contraction), that thats all just for the seats. Now in the car itself you'll need more lines with quick-disconnects for the seats, body modifications for the lines, and a new heat exchanger into the AC loop.

Like I stated in the first post, does one really want two more glycol loops in their car?

[Bitsyncmaster]

That is one powerful fan. You may find it cools you to much. 3.3 amps really will push some air.

[dmc6960]

That is one powerful fan. You may find it cools you to much. 3.3 amps really will push some air.

Exactly! There will be (at least initially) 2 settings, high and low. Low will be toned down with a simple high watt resistor just like the AC blower fan. Who knows, it may turn out I need to tone down the high speed as well. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Exolis]

It may be easier to go to a dealer or something and buy a seat with both options, tear it apart and essentially Reverse Engineer it.

[dmc6960]

What I'm doing pretty much is the same as new OEM cooled seats. Many are just air vented with a blower fan. There are some which also use a thermoelectric cooler, or pipe in standard AC cooled air. Both will be options to further upgrade these seats if they do not perform satisfactorily.

[dmc6960]

DCS is rapidly approaching, and I haven't done anything more with the seats. Until today! Today I got the seat bottom of the previously disassembled passenger seat nearly ready for cooling.

Final before picture, this is before I do anything...
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I have used two 10" rubber hold-down straps to secure the fan and provide a little extra support under the seat. They are attached to the seat with just zip-ties, and the fan itself is also attached with zip-ties. Friction alone with hold this properly in place. Careful testing with the still-installed driver's seat indicated the best spot for the fan which would still allow full seat movement and still be held above the bottom of the car, was the exact middle. This is where the fan now is.
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Next, was a very hesitant move. The point of no return, cutting into the seat. I cut a square hole in the bottom rubber pad approximately 33% larger than the fan output opening. The edges around the cut will be reinforced with something, once I figure out what that will be. This will hopefully prevent it from progressively ripping around the cut area. NOTE: Do NOT cut the rubber with the hold-down straps still in place. Otherwise you may score one of them and completely compromise its integrity. Luckily I bought an extra. Still to be made is an air duct to direct the air output of the fan into this hole. You can also see two carpet gliders which I glued to the bottom of the fan. This is to prevent binding up in the event the fan is pushed onto the carpet when the seat is moved. Under normal conditions with a 170lbs person sitting in the seat, I've estimated the fan should be sitting ~1 inch above the carpet.
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Next was making a basic cut into the seat foam of the same dimensions of the rubber cut. Using a brand new 4" scraper blade held strait in my hand was best for this. In fact it really worked well. Just be careful not to cut yourself since your holding just the blade itself.
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Once the square cut is done, I proceded to enlarge it at an angle. The forward angle is about 45º and the rear angle is about 20º-30º. This will help hold the new foam which will be going into its place, since the rubber support below it is, well, gone.
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The new foam. It is a very thick, dense, and relatively light closed-cell foam I got at an upholstery shop. After the ventilation holes are bored into it, it provides approximately the same support/squish as the seat's original polyurethane. Two of them stacked together are about 1/8" thicker than the section of original foam cut out of the seat bottom. You see them here stacked together, cut at the same size and angle as the hole now in the seat (length/width dimensions are actually about 1/8" larger for a tight fit).
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Each piece got 10 holes bored into them. I say bored and not drilled. Drill bits just wouldn't cut this stuff satisfactorily enough for me. After the holes were made, I cut channels into each section. Bottom section channels simply connect the 10 holes. The top section channels provide the take-off points for the channels which will go throughout the seat.
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And here are the channels in the seat. The idea here is to provide air circulation through the seat, allowing the majority of the air to exit toward the front of the seat where its least loaded with weight. The air will pick up the body heat and moisture and carry it out with ease. The remainder of the air should be forced out even the parts of the seat mildly loaded with weight.
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Finally, the expanded nylon mesh fabric, cut to size and just about ready for installation. This will provide a circulation layer to both allow airflow through nearly all sections of the seat, and also provide extra support to prevent collapse of the newly cut channels when weighed upon. Also, combined with the seat cover the channels and the new foam section should not be felt through the completed seat.
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Thats all for now, hopefully more progress tomorrow. Its probably going to turn out that even if I get this seat done by this weekend, there will not be time to do the drivers seat. In that case I will be driving down to Orlando with the drivers/passenger seats swapped. One old, and one nice and new. I'll complete the drivers seat later this year.

[dmc6960]

More progress tonight.

I made what I hope is just a temporary air duct to go from the fan into the seat bottom. The pop-box cardboard was really easy to shape and cut and there was plenty to start over again if I screwed up. It is mostly secured to the bottom seat rubber using 3M VHB tape. The rubber tie-downs also provide a little tension holding them. Before securing them I enlarged the bore holes in the new foam to a calculated amount equal to the exit area of the blower. I also slightly modified the channels cut into the foam on the seat top.

Finally, it was time to completely test the final seat bottom. I slipped the new cover over it, and ran the fan. Air blew through the perforated leather with ease and I was getting a nice cool ass sitting there enjoying the accomplishment.

Tomorrow I may even be able to completely assemble the seat. I don't see the seat back section being nearly as difficult as the bottom was. Time will tell though.

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[1batt4u]

Great Progress!!! Keep it up!!!!

[dmc6960]

Didn't complete it last night, took too long to get started then I couldn't work too late. But I did make very good progress on the seat back.

First, a test fit of the heater pad. You can see all the holes punched in it for airflow. The heating element is a very flexible carbon material in a criss-crossing pattern. In the middle of each is now a cut opening. Integrity of the pad is not compromised at all. The pads did however come with a reflective liner meant to be put under them, to reflect the heat upwards. I will not be installing this. It is possible that the heat will not radiate as effectively, especially since there is still a little bit of foam built in to the bottom of the seat cover. No worries here though. Since I'll eventually have a custom electronic controller for both heating and cooling, I could always activate the fans at a very slow speed in the heating mode, to keep the heat circulating towards the occupants.
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Now for the mounting of the rear fan. I did decide to go ahead and use two fans per seat. I would have been too complicated to plumb one into both sections. I'll get the most power out of the airflow this way anyways. The fan is mounted directly to the wire supports in the rear of the seat. Again, with zip-ties! Its approximately just below middle. Its in a spot where the open section of the seat back will allow it to still move back and forth, slightly stretching the vinyl as it does so.
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The seat back itself got some thin closed-cell foam glued to the inside of it. This will prevent the high-pressure air from going between the vinyl and the hardboard. The foam is glued to the hardboard, but not the vinyl backing. This will help prevent fatigue as it is flexed over and over again under use.
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Sealing around the fan itself is accomplished with 3 different types of foam. This, along with the seat back panel, will enclose the airspace which will direct the airflow into the front of the seat. The bottom of the fan has the thin closed-cell foam under it, and wrapped around the lower wire support. This will provide and air-tight seal when the seat is in use, but may allow some bypass when not loaded. The sides got sections of the thick and dense closed-cell which I used for the seat bottom support. Finally, on top of that was a very squishy open cell acoustical foam I had leftover from the soundproofing I've been doing. I attached it so the "skin" side is facing the inside area. This "skin" is a solid membrane, not an open-cell material like the inside of the foam. Once the back panel is attached, this should provide and air-tight plenum.
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Finally, the front of the seat, including the air channels. This are cut V-grooves in the foam just like I did for the seat bottom. The two primary holes in the foam will be reinforced by the same thick closed-cell foam I used on the seat bottom. Also just like the bottom, the back will get the expanded nylon mesh fabric over this; then the perforated heating element as well. I have not yet sat on this for testing yet.
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Part of the delay yesterday was running around finding a hog-ring pliers and hog rings. Welle Auto comes through again with just that. $2.50 for 100 rings, and a $12 pliers. This is also the only place in the Twin Cities that seems to sell SEM paints over the counter.

[dmc6960]

Working late last night, and all of today, the passenger seat is completed. It is now installed in the driver's position for my drive down to DCS. Later this year I'll do the same mods and recover the actual driver seat and swap them back into position. Now, where I left off...

Here are the closed-cell foam inserts to reinforce the holes cut into the seat back. They are glued into place...
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Next is the wire routing and the hole cut into the seat back. Cutting his hole was another nervious move. You can see the thin closed-cell foam previously added to it to seal off the opening between the loose vinyl and the hardboard backing. This was also cut off along the circle. This is how it will remain for the drive to DCS. Sometime after I return, I'll revisit this to determine if I want to just put a grille over it, or some sort of enclosure. An enclosure would help reduce nose so thats what I'm leaning towards right now.
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This next picture shows the expanded nylon mesh and the heating pad in-place for a test fit just before beginning to fit the new covers. The far edges of the pad will sit in the crevice for the mid-section retainers. I'm unsure what the official name for that is, but I know there is one. You can see rows of two different sized holes. These correspond to slightly larger and smaller openings between the heating elements. These holes were punched with some sort of circular fabric cutting tool. I'm unsure its exact name since I didn't buy the tool and I didn't punch the holes. I have my sister-in-law to thank for doing that tedious work.
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Finally, it was time to start attaching the new covers. Damn that is tough to do, hours later and my fingers are still raw from all the work on those. I started with the seat back, probably the harder of the two. First up was getting it over the head rest and attached to the two hold-downs below it. On many recovered seats you'll notice they do not "puff out" between the two tie-downs as well as the original seats do. I tried my best to get it to happen, but as you'll see in the final picture, I failed. Its still a good cover job, especially for someone who's never done it before I'd say. I used 5 zip-ties in each row to pull it the cover back. They didn't pull them back far enough. (Unfortunately this photo is upside down)
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Because the center section of the seat has had a little boost in "stuffing" with the expanded nylon, I wanted to give the side bolsters a little puff as well. Here some additional foam was cut to roughly match the shape of the extra stitching on the side bolsters which are for some reason placed on the perforated/two-tone covers.
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Finally, the seat back was done. Here you can see all the new hog-rings. They are considerably larger than the original ones. Also printed on the box was directions how to attach them to a pig. Hmmm. Also notice the wiring exiting where it is. Since this is the passenger seat, its on that side, so it will exit next to the center console.
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Now for the seat bottom. Here is almost the same test fit for the nylon and the heating pad (just not on the seat itself). You'll notice two cuts in the heating pad where the side bolsters end. This was done very carefully to relieve tension at that location. It was cut at such a location to not pierce the main electrical element located on each side. This will allow me to use the whole pad, and not cut it shorter.
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Now, the pull-downs in the middle of the seat needed cutouts for the tension wire you reuse from the old covers (the backs also had a tension wire, however it was just a strait wire and not complex like the bottom one is). There was conveniently, in silver marker, 4 circles showing where to cut. The other two stuck out at one end.
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Again, like the seat back, the bottom is getting the same side bolster boost...
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Now a completed bottom. Again, see the wires all coming out the same side. I was missing two nylon hold-downs when I removed the original cover. To replace them; I used a nylon washers, zip-ties, and the S-hooks that came with the three rubber tie-down I purchased.
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Finally, a working heated and cooled seat!
http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10941&d=1339312187

This is something I've wanted for many years. I first had the plans to actually do it back in 2009, when I decided to order the new replacement seat covers. 3 years later, 3 days before leaving for DCS, I have one done. Its a damn good feeling of accomplishment when something you've thought about for years and years is finally a reality. I tell you though, it was a pain in the ass to install this passenger seat into the driver's position. The seat belt anchor bolt just stuck too far out to align the seat properly. I ended up removing two spacer washers from the assembly, and cranked that bolt down as tight as I could get it. The seat just BARELY made it in. I can still relatively easily adjust the seat back, and its not too bad to reach around for moving the seat back forward. For now, temporarily, I've wired just the cooling fans up. I have not tried the heat yet, too damn hot in the garage, plus I haven't wired it yet. The fans are turned on by a spare narrow defrost switch I also purchased in 2009. Eventually, there will be an electronic controller for both the heating and cooling. There will be extra window switches in place for them. One arrow will be red, and one will be blue. Push the red arrow once, and heat is on high. Push it again, heat is on low. Push it a third time, and its all off. Same with the blue; once for high cool (full fan speed), again for low cool (slower fan speed), and a third time for off.

I'll tell you, this works pretty damn good. When sitting, you are considerably higher now compared to the still-original driver's seat. This because of the slight boost in the fabric/foam, and the additional support the rubber tie-downs provide under the seat. I'm a relatively shorter person so this isn't too bad of a thing for me. Might make a very tall person a little uncomfortable though. Turn the seat on unloaded, and you can slightly see it inflate like a balloon in both the bottom and the back. Air is being pushed out of probably every perforation. Sit down on it, and immediately you'll feel whatever sweat you had on your back and ass evaporating. Even with no active "cooling" of the air being pushed, it still feels really good. Combine that with how cold the bottom of the floorpans get with the A/C on max, and these seats will likely freeze you out after a while. Since I dont have a low setting right now, I'll probably be frequently turning them on and off on the drive down to Orlando. It'll sure be a good test.

[DavidProehl]

Congrats and well done! Very professionally done seat. As always, your research and effort paid off big time! Great to see the finished result.

[Elvis]

Nice project, I'd love to test it :-)

How loud is it ?

As I'm working for the last western fan manufacturer I might
be able to get you a blower with speed control.

Elvis & 6548

[DMCMW Dave]

Nice project, I'd love to test it :-)

How loud is it ?

As I'm working for the last western fan manufacturer I might
be able to get you a blower with speed control.

Elvis & 6548

If the car is off you can hear it running. With the car running, it's in the noise.

[Mark D]

How did the drive down to DCS go with the cooled seat? I was imagining some kind of liquid cooled version when I first started reading this thread, but I think what you did with the fans and molded channels looks like it would work nicely.

[AdmiralSenn]

I will attest that Jim's results on this seat are nothing short of amazing and I am 100% going to steal this when I recover my seats.

[stevedmc]

I will attest that Jim's results on this seat are nothing short of amazing and I am 100% going to steal this when I recover my seats.

I got to sit in his car and the air was really nice. It made me want to do bad things in his car.

[Dangermouse]

Jim kindly let me sit there too and it was surprisingly cool without the engine and AC running.

I guess the coolest air is at the bottom and you can really feel it on your back.

Like Dave said you can hear the fan when the engine is off, but I think that is more because I was listening for it. It is no noisier than a computer fan.

[dvonk]

Jim was kind enough to allow me to try out his air-cooled seat... it was my first time sitting in a DeLorean! :woot:

thanks Jim! :biggrin:

[dmc6960]

Yea, even at full power the noise isnt too loud. Most of what you hear is from the rear fan, which will significantly be muffled once I build a cowl over the intake. Then combine that with a LOW setting which is all you need after a few minutes and it should be completely indecernable while driving. This seat cools you down like nobody's business. I'm looking forward to completing the other seat now so all my passengers can get blown away as well.

[dmc6960]

Been all summer now, and it's gettin cool out. Time for a heated/cooled seat update.

Quick recap, I worked last minute (hey, is there really any other way!?) to get one seat done before the drive down to Orlando for DCS. I did the passenger seat first, with the idea that if I screwed up or later came up with a better way to do something, I can just stick it to the passengers. Good news is I don't think there will be much I'll do different of the drivers seat. Yes I've been driving around on the passenger seat all summer.

So the cooling has been working spectacularly. Once the AC has cooled the interior of the car down just a little bit the seat really starts getting cool. Cold air sinks remember so the seat will start sucking up cold air well before the cabin 'feels' cool. After 10 minutes it can be downright cold. At this point I have no immediate plans to directly vent the AC to the seat.

Now for the heating. I haven't yet even tested let along tried it out yet. Until tonight. Temperatures in the low 50's, not terribly cold but enough to test its effectiveness. Results? Toasty ass! As expected, it does take longer than normal to start feeling the heat. About 2 minutes before anything is noticeable, 5 minutes to really feel warm, and after about 10 minutes it reaches it's peak. The longer warm up time is due to the extra padding on the bottom of the new seat cover. I also had to leave out a radiant reflective pad which would normally go under the heater pad to reflect all the heat upwards. It was left out due to the need to ventilate through the pad. The bottom seat section gets really warm once on for a while, but the seat back section does not get as hot. This is likely related to less weighting upon the seat, allowing the extra padding to better insulate between the heater and the outside. I still plan to play around with very low seat fan speeds in conjunction with the heaters to try and get the most out of them. Overall, I am very pleased with the results, just like the cooling.

Still to come... Well I still need to completely do the drivers seat, then swap the seats back into their proper position. I also need to get permanent wiring installed for the seats, and build the electronic controls to control both the heating and cooling with a window switch. Also still need to get the designated switches modified with red and blue LEDs for the arrows. So that's the plan for this winter. However knowing how I work, I'll likely be finishing it all the week before DCS '14. Ha.

[Tillsy]

Yes I've been driving around on the passenger seat all summer.

That's gotta be awkward ;)