The DeLorean - Saab connection

[DeLorean]

So since Saabs bankruptcy, I have been noticing a lot of parallels between Saab-DeLorean. As it was all going down hill, customers noticed, there was a lot of bad publicity, and quite a few cars had stacked up in the ports. Today, these cars are still sitting there! There was a large amount of money owed and a lot of fighting over these port cars in court... but as of a few days ago they are still sitting there.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Z7GxkUvij4s/T20pKZ6zSvI/AAAAAAAAAMo/2qhkzuvkRK0/s512/IMGP6410.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zaJlwBBx8kg/T20pK2jxBTI/AAAAAAAAAM4/z9e-rfhvSws/s720/IMGP6414.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sVQ-8eFSfbM/T20pL5Ep8II/AAAAAAAAANQ/ae1Ristdv5Q/s720/IMGP6424.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vvdsjn_6tyU/T20pKpgO1XI/AAAAAAAAAMs/5JWIJwUn5H8/s720/IMGP6411.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yf_3utnbJiQ/T20pLWZ8G9I/AAAAAAAAANA/LGz9ocCUCiI/s720/IMGP6419.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--xYW3aHr_v8/T20pKABZJgI/AAAAAAAAAMc/qTMpNbwIk3o/s720/IMGP6408.JPG

I know a lot of our cars, especially the later cars have minor depressions from the foam shipping blocks being attached far longer than they were intended to be, I wonder if the Saab "port cars" will end up with some strange imperfections from their shipping protection being attached for so long!

Check out the full story on www.foundourownroad.com -

http://foundourownroad.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=562

[Dracula]

The big difference I see is that I can't imagine a 30-year-old Saab having any type of collector value.

[DeLorean]

The big difference I see is that I can't imagine a 30-year-old Saab having any type of collector value.

Well you are wrong about that one... While they clearly don't have the same sort of dollar value today as the DeLorean, a 78 99-turbo or say an 80 900 turbo in good running driving shape, or lats say in "restored" condition are not only collectible but likely be in the same percentage bracket as a DeLoreans average current price point when compared to it's original MSRP. Fine me a NICE running driving 78 99-turbo for 8-10K - (this is the price bracket you'd need to be in if a DeLorean today is worth 15-20K)

Note that the Saabs were a lot cheaper back then, and there were a lot more of them, so that's actually fairly impressive.

[Dracula]

I meant the Saabs of today being worth any more than a standard 30-year-old car in the future seems highly unlikely.

[DeLorean]

I meant the Saabs of today being worth any more than a standard 30-year-old car in the future seems highly unlikely.

a turbo 4 AT 9-3, I'll agree with you on that. Likely will never be worth all that much inside of our lifetime ( I'm 28 )

Something like a 9-5 turbo 4 MT, or a cross wheel drive wagon... You might still be wrong about that, 30 years from now, they might be worth about 1/2 their original MSRP :lol:

how ever it turns out, As with DeLoreans... It will be all about condition condition condition. This is assuming we still have gasoline in 30 years.

[Dracula]

Something like a 9-5 turbo 4 MT, or a cross wheel drive wagon... You might still be wrong about that, 30 years from now, they might be worth about 1/2 their original MSRP :lol:

Not if you don't adjust for inflation.

[Totally 80s]

I like Saabs', but do they make a model for men?

[DMCVegas]

I would really love to own one of these cars. Of course I don't have the cash to purchase one. Somehow I get the feeling that these cars are probably going to go the route of the final DMC-12s as well. I seriously doubt that they're going to be auctioned off individually, but rather will be sold off like the Consolidated International Cars one at a time to individuals as well as resellers.

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/prop/advertisements/ci1x1.jpg

Having said that, I could be wrong but I also believe that this type of a compelling story with these cars may also be their saving grace. Sell enough of these off at an affordable price (unlike SAAB MSRP) and sell them to the right people and their fate will be saved. As is if you sell the average Joe out there a SAAB they aren't going to know how to keep the damn thing on the road because they don't know what to do with it. And they'll destroy the car's reputation. Give it to someone like your average DeLorean owner and we WILL build our own aftermarket support network. We'll find x-over part numbers, we'll figure out ways to interface with the car electronics, and we'll even build new parts if we have to. If these cars are sold to the right people, the collectable status of the old ones will in fact rise.

Honestly, I would really love to be apart of this. It's a rare opportunity to become a foster parent/owner for an orphaned car/marque and help pioneer it's long-term survivability. But I just don't have the means to jump in. Unless of course someone can get me a really great deal. If so I'll gladly repay that favor by promoting the car and throwing in a hand to build the marque back up. But let's face it, that's just a fool's paradise of wishful thinking by me...

Good luck SAAB owners. You've got a lot of work ahead of you.

[Dracula]

Very interesting perspective. I, however, have no interest in owning a Saab or keeping the marque alive in memory. I'd be the guy who drives it into the ground and then scraps it if given one; that is, if I couldn't sell it.

[Rich]

[QUOTE=DeLorean;49228]Well you are wrong about that one... While they clearly don't have the same sort of dollar value today as the DeLorean, a 78 99-turbo or say an 80 900 turbo in good running driving shape, or lats say in "restored" condition are not only collectible but likely be in the same percentage bracket as a DeLoreans average current price point when compared to it's original MSRP.

Sorry to say that the resale values we see today don't favor Saabs as collectibles. Take a look at the comparison table in this thread: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3444. Then insert the retained-value data for the 30-year old Saab of your choice using the NADA Avg. Retail figures and the 2.5X inflator that was used for that table. If you prefer not to adjust for inflation then leave it off the comparisons - the rankings don't change.

You might see from NADA that an '81 900 Turbo is worth ~$3800 today, Avg. Retail, vs $15.1K new, meaning it kept about 10% of its value. That puts it in a league with the '81 928 or Esprit Turbo, not so close to the 35-40% retained value for an '81 DMC-12 using the same data source and method. Hard to really compare a 4 seater sports coupe to a bunch of 2-seater or 2+2 sports/GTs.

Yes, one can cherry-pick one transaction and peg lots of prices for a given car, hence the use of the NADA guide for some semblance of statistical relevance.

Considering Saabs were mass-market cars, as you say, 10% value retention for a 900 Turbo over 30 years is probably not so bad. Maybe Saabs will hold a bit more value if only because they've become orphan cars like D's. As with the DeLorean in the '80s, they'll have to burn through the remaining inventory first.

[DMCVegas]

[QUOTE=DeLorean;49228]Well you are wrong about that one... While they clearly don't have the same sort of dollar value today as the DeLorean, a 78 99-turbo or say an 80 900 turbo in good running driving shape, or lats say in "restored" condition are not only collectible but likely be in the same percentage bracket as a DeLoreans average current price point when compared to it's original MSRP.

Sorry to say that the resale values we see today don't favor Saabs as collectibles. Take a look at the comparison table in this thread: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?3444. Then insert the retained-value data for the 30-year old Saab of your choice using the NADA Avg. Retail figures and the 2.5X inflator that was used for that table. If you prefer not to adjust for inflation then leave it off the comparisons - the rankings don't change.

You might see from NADA that an '81 900 Turbo is worth ~$3800 today, Avg. Retail, vs $15.1K new, meaning it kept about 10% of its value. That puts it in a league with the '81 928 or Esprit Turbo, not so close to the 35-40% retained value for an '81 DMC-12 using the same data source and method. Hard to really compare a 4 seater sports coupe to a bunch of 2-seater or 2+2 sports/GTs.

Yes, one can cherry-pick one transaction and peg lots of prices for a given car, hence the use of the NADA guide for some semblance of statistical relevance.

Considering Saabs were mass-market cars, as you say, 10% value retention for a 900 Turbo over 30 years is probably not so bad. Maybe Saabs will hold a bit more value if only because they've become orphan cars like D's. As with the DeLorean in the '80s, they'll have to burn through the remaining inventory first.

And that right there is the whole downfall of why the SAAB marque won't survive. I totally understand that you're referencing values of older SAABs to make a point. However that's the big problem where everyone who talks about SAAB in a positive light can really only speak favorably about the older cars.

I'll stick by my statement that SAAB certainly could survive like the DeLorean marque, but at the same time I do seriously doubt it will. I do think that some cars will be survivors thanks to either hopeful investors, or they simply will break down while still in good condition and will end up being preserved that way. Reason being is summed up in this quote here:


Very interesting perspective. I, however, have no interest in owning a Saab or keeping the marque alive in memory. I'd be the guy who drives it into the ground and then scraps it if given one; that is, if I couldn't sell it.

He's absolutely right. There is no passion by enough people for SAAB. Hell my own interest here in the marque is simply because it's going to be a long-term challenge. This is the biggest way in which SAAB differs from DeLorean. There is no passion for modern SAAB vehicles. This isn't an Icarusian tale of risk by allowing ambition to exceed abilities or stability. There will be no awesome films to make use of a SAAB as the star. Most importantly SAAB itself has not come crashing down in a ruin of controversy and disappointment. SAAB's death wasn't even a whimper. It was more akin to a nondescript old man suffering from Alzheimers wandering off into the woods and being forgotten about. Findings like these cars abandoned on the docks are akin to one day stumbling upon part of his corpse and still feeling no connection to him. And the reason is simple: He was as bland as SAABs cars.

SAAB didn't really make an awesome car that people wanted to clamor over. If they had they would still be in business of course, but still that fact remains. Classic SAAB = SAAB. Modern SAAB = Rebadged, screwed-over General Motors garbage. It may not necessarily be true in all instances, but it is however how some key people perceive them to be. Key as in they'll yell the loudest. But overall they're just not that interesting to the average person.

To hell with future resale prices. Let's have a real challenge in the future. Even to this day you'll run across people who lament that they never bought a new DeLorean when they had the chance to. Let's see in 5+ years and from there on out just how many people will say the same for SAAB.

[Dracula]

I'm glad to see that you interpreted my point as it was. I had feared that it would come off as condescending or elitist. The simple fact of the matter is that, for me and many others, there's no desire to own a SAAB. They offer nothing unique and have no notable, distinguishing features that stand out from the rest of the cookie-cutter automobiles produced today. That's not to say that the older ones weren't neat, but those were liked for the same reason as the GEO Metro. These new ones are not the epitome of luxury, nor are they performance driving machines. I hold them on the same page as Lexus; which is merely a gussied-up whore of a Toyota for those who are easily parted from their money. The thing about a car becoming valuable is that they have to meet certain conditions: memorable, desirable, iconic, and so forth. The current SAAB cars aren't wanted now, hence the company's demise, so what value will there be for them 30 years in the future?

One of the best illustrators of this is another car I collect: the Dodge Monaco. 1974 is a one-year-only style that was made famous for its use as the Bluesmobile in the Blues Brothers. As a result, they fetch a premium price. Now, a 1973 or 1975 go for about 1/3 of the price of a '74. Why is this? Because nobody has a real desire to own a 40-year-old sedan that was nothing but basic transportation back in the day.

To use a quote from the Car Lust site:

http://www.carlustblog.com/2008/07/car-lust--1974.html


The title of this post is a bit of a misnomer, since nobody actually remembers or lusts after the 1974 Dodge Monaco for its own merits. No, the '74 Monaco is most famous for its role as the Bluesmobile in the 1980 film The Blues Brothers, in which the humble Mopar full-size sedan became one of the most famous movie cars of all time and easily the most influential car in molding my questionable automotive tastes.

Unless someone makes a movie featuring Burt Reynolds driving around in a SAAB taking down, oh, let's use Hollywood's favorite villain: the Nazis, then they'll never be lusted after. Even so, manufacturers no longer use the one-year-only model unless there's something wrong with the car to necessitate a change and that allows for many, many movie-based replicas to exist if that WERE the case.

The other big factor is quantity produced. SAABs were not manufactured in small enough numbers to prevent everyone who wanted one from buying one. They were sold at the rate of public demand, which kept dropping.

A good example of this is the Pontiac Fiero. They're neat cars, but since they were made from 1984 up through 1988 and in no short supply, even with the demise of Pontiac, they can still be had for a very reasonable price. You can buy 10 decent Fieros for the price of 1 decent DeLorean, especially considering that there's a lot more in common with the Fiero and the DeLorean than the SAAB and the DeLorean.

The one thing that I've learned is that there's ALWAYS a following for any car that's no longer made, but the strength of the community varies. I can't see the SAAB one ever being strong.

[Henrik]

Oh gosh - I really miss my 1980 SAAB 99 Turbo that I owned and restored during the college years back in Sweden. Here is the ad from 1989 when I sold it.

9505

So, just a few weeks ago I had this sudden urge to find out where it is today so I did a search in the Swedish car registry database, and what do I find if not the cold unrelenting message that "this car was wrecked and recycled on Nov 26, 1999".... Weird, the day before my younger son was born. :Headspin:I took it pretty hard. (And for all you pun lovers, spare me from telling me that this was a "sob" story:sad30: ) I miss that car.