Regraining Stainless

[uhhair]

Well, I figure someone has to be the first to post a need advice/help thread, might as well be me! So this winter our red D is going back to stainless. Now before everyone asks and starts the big fight...our decision is final. The paint job on our D is old, chipped and faded. It would need to be completely repainted anyways, so we figure it is cheaper to go back to stainless as opposed to stripping and then repainting the entire car. Also, we are almost completely positive there is no body damage under the paint. If there is, we will cross that bridge when we come to it but for now I'd like to just assume there isn't. My question is, exactly how can one go about regraining the panels? Is it possible that some panels might not be able to be regrained? Are there professionals that can assist with this type of thing? I know some of these questions we have might affect our decision to go back to stainless, but it is something that we really want to do, as a new paintjob is just seems so expensive and our car really needs to start looking nice on the outside (the red paint is very very faded and old). Thanks in advance for your replies and let's hear it for Tamir and the new DMCTalk!

[Mike C.]

You're definitely taking on quite the project! But good for you for the huge undertaking you're going to go on. Originally a flapper wheel tool was used to put the grain onto the car. I know of a few people who have managed to pull an original design tool off of the internet. I don't know of anyone personally that has regrained an ENTIRE car without a tool. I've seen Hervey advertising a type of flapper tool, but not exactly sure what it is or if anyone has used it with any success.

I do know that all the DMC shops offer a regraining service if you want the grain to be as close as possible to original. Im not sure what kind of scuffing was done to your panels in order to prime the car for paint.

Thanks for being the first advice post!

[uhhair]

Well, I figured going right back to business is exactly what the community needs right now. Yeah, I've heard about using this certain tool, but I'm just too sure what all is involved with it. Hopefully some others will chime in with their advice. It would be great if we can find someone who had a painted car that went back to stainless. It just seems to be the most logical course of action given the condition of our current paint. Thanks!

[Rad Dad]

A few of us have had our cars regrained entirely by hand by the MASTER of the regraining technique, Chris Nicholson. Chris is in the UK and affiliated with P.J. Grady. If you can catch him when he visits the States, he is the guy to go to . BTW, he has regrained at least one of the rare "Pilot" cars.

[LEVY]

Why do you want to regrain?

Our car was also red, it is SS now, no regrain needed.
How do you plan to get the red stripped from your car?

We posted some pics on the old forum, if you need some advice let me know.

Levy




Well, I figure someone has to be the first to post a need advice/help thread, might as well be me! So this winter our red D is going back to stainless. Now before everyone asks and starts the big fight...our decision is final. The paint job on our D is old, chipped and faded. It would need to be completely repainted anyways, so we figure it is cheaper to go back to stainless as opposed to stripping and then repainting the entire car. Also, we are almost completely positive there is no body damage under the paint. If there is, we will cross that bridge when we come to it but for now I'd like to just assume there isn't. My question is, exactly how can one go about regraining the panels? Is it possible that some panels might not be able to be regrained? Are there professionals that can assist with this type of thing? I know some of these questions we have might affect our decision to go back to stainless, but it is something that we really want to do, as a new paintjob is just seems so expensive and our car really needs to start looking nice on the outside (the red paint is very very faded and old). Thanks in advance for your replies and let's hear it for Tamir and the new DMCTalk!

[uhhair]

To get the paint off we are going to remove all the panels (including doors) from the car and then strip it chemically. If the grain was left intact underneath the paint, then yes obviously no regraining will be necessary but I have a funny feeling that there was at least some treatment done to the steel to prep it for paint. Obviously, we won't know until we strip the first panel but I would just like to prepare for regraining so we can budget time/money accordingly.

[SamHill]

I saw a D taken back to stainless in the Phoenix area in 2005. Looked terrible. And it looked like it was a ton of hard work to get it there. Be sure to use the appropriate protection with those chemicals!

[uhhair]

Sam, if you could be more specific...what about it looked terrible? Is it possible that the car had not been regrained properly/if at all? Has anyone else seen a formerly painted D that they could comment on look after completion?

[SamHill]

There was swirling and scratches all over the panels. The car had not been regrained at all, and badly needed it. When the car was painted, they painted everything, such as the doorsills, and they had attempted to get the paint off, but you could still tell from the scratches and tiny bits of paint here and there.

Taking a car back down to bare metal, and getting it to look decent, seems like a monumental task to me.

[Malevy]

Evil Dan, with his car.. It was painted black. Took him many hours to get it looking like this.

http://deloreanmidatlantic.com/scrapbook/soc2k7/Images/IMG_3832.jpg

Why not try 1 panel first, and see what you find? If it is bad, you may want to just re-paint it.

[r00b]

I saw a DeLorean once that had terrible swirl scratches all over. It wasn't a painted car, it was just not cared for right. It desperately needed a regraining.

[Dangermouse]

There is a guy in Europe (Hungary I think) who used a flapper wheel with a drill. He mounted the drill in a homemade jig and pushed the panels through the jig, which kept the distance and hence pressure roughly equal, not to mention not being so tiring.

Obviously he took each panel off the car but as he was doing a frame off anyway, it was no problem

[dvonk]

maybe djeconcerto could give you some pointers! :lol:

[SIMid]

Have you considered Bead-Blasting (safer than sand-blasting)? No chemicals and should strip the paint right off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrasive_blasting

[uhhair]

Have you considered Bead-Blasting (safer than sand-blasting)? No chemicals and should strip the paint right off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrasive_blasting


We were going to try and strip it chemically so that if we got lucky and they did little prep work putting the paint on the car, that we might be able to keep some of the original grain intact. I'll have to look into that bead-blasting though, seems interested.

Has anyone ever had someone re-grain their car somewhat recently, and if so what did it run you approx?

Also, since a lot of people seem concerned that our panels may be junk underneath, I'd like to point out that the original title for the car (which we obtained from a PO) that the car initially titled as red, and has never been titled as stainless. This leads us to believe that the car was painted initially by a dealer and that the panels underneath are straight. Also, the paint job is not an extremely nice one, as the door jams are not painted, and they did not remove any panels to paint underneath or anything. This leads us to believe that the paint job was rushed, and that the prep work might have been minimal as well (thus leaving us in better condition once we strip the paint)


However, I guess the worst case scenario for us is that we peel the paint off and see that we've gotten in over our heads, we can just prep and repaint the car, but since we were originally planning on repainting it anyways, at least this way we can attempt to see if the car can be returned to stainless, and if not then we'll move on to plan B. However, as much work as it is, I think returning an early model VIN with a gas flap hood back to stainless is by far the best option.

[Z0sizzle]

:cheers

[Ryan King]

There is a guy in Europe (Hungary I think) who used a flapper wheel with a drill. He mounted the drill in a homemade jig and pushed the panels through the jig, which kept the distance and hence pressure roughly equal, not to mention not being so tiring.

Obviously he took each panel off the car but as he was doing a frame off anyway, it was no problem

I had a link to that on old DMCtalk..but I no longer do. :(
I didn't think it was Europe, I thought that was done by a local US guy. Maybe two separate people. But I believe he used a "Wolf Wheel"? Like you said, attached to a drill, and he ran it on a jig he made.

EDIT- Found the link - http://www.noroads.com/delorean/3281/?content=20100110

[uhhair]

Ryan, good link, the end results makes me think that the car could look pretty good!

Z0sizzle, if you have pics please post them, that would be great. Also, did you do the regrain yourself?

[Mike C.]

maybe djeconcerto could give you some pointers! :lol:

:lol:

uhhair, we had a former owner try to shortcut the paint removal process by using a belt sander...

I really don't recommend that method.

[wiresman]

I dont know how the chemicals will react with the stainless, but i have used aircraft remover and TalStrip to remove paint from old cars. To prevent rapid evaporation, I used plastic sheeting (Saran Wrap) to get the most working time from chemical. In the end, I simply peeled the plastic off and the paint layers came off with it. Wear PPE, the talStrip feels like a wasp stinging if it gets on skin. Good luck with your project.

[jtrealtywebspannet]

You must be careful which kind of chemical stripper you use. The wrong type will pit the surface causing even more work. Try a small, inconspicuous spot for testing. Regraining can be done by hand but a power tool will make it easier and faster. Any good flap wheel with the proper grit paper will work. Start with #80. It takes a lot of practice to keep the grain straight. Using masking tape as a guide line can help. Do not use too much pressure, especially on the hood. If you have any damaged panels you might want to practice on them first. Since they will have to be repaired or replaced anyway it won't matter if you mess up on them!
David Teitelbaum

[uhhair]

You must be careful which kind of chemical stripper you use. The wrong type will pit the surface causing even more work. Try a small, inconspicuous spot for testing. Regraining can be done by hand but a power tool will make it easier and faster. Any good flap wheel with the proper grit paper will work. Start with #80. It takes a lot of practice to keep the grain straight. Using masking tape as a guide line can help. Do not use too much pressure, especially on the hood. If you have any damaged panels you might want to practice on them first. Since they will have to be repaired or replaced anyway it won't matter if you mess up on them!
David Teitelbaum

It looks like a lot of people have said use aircraft paint stripper. If anyone has some links to the specific product they used (Z0sizzle, you seemed to think your product worked great so if you could share it we'd appreciate it) please let us know.

As far as the regraining goes, I'm not certain we're going to do that ourselves or hire someone to do it for us, as neither of us have any practice at all using a flap wheel in any capacity, and I don't think we're going to have any damaged panels on to practice. Once we strip the paint and see what we have, we'll make a decision as to how we will go about the regraining process in terms of DIY or taking it to a someone. If anyone knows of some links to some detailed instructions (or video) let me know. Or, if anyone around the PA/DMA area has experience with it and wants to give us a demo, that would work too! We'll travel to see it!

[tgraham]

I didn't think it was Europe, I thought that was done by a local US guy. Maybe two separate people. But I believe he used a "Wolf Wheel"? Like you said, attached to a drill, and he ran it on a jig he made.

EDIT- Found the link - http://www.noroads.com/delorean/3281/?content=20100110


That's me :) I bought a previously-painted RF fender and re-grained it with a "factory-like" setup to get all of the scoring out.

The factory tooling was a modified ARO (now Ingersoll Rand) inline air grinder and a "Vonnegut wheel" on the end of it. You can buy the modern version of the Vonnegut wheel from the same manufacturer, which is called a "Wolfhead wheel". This is a high-quality industrial tool, not some crappy/cheap attachment that you can buy at the local hardware warehouse. I've seen those, and the thought of one of those things spinning around and coming anywhere near one of my cars makes me cringe... maybe that's just me, though.

To do it right, you'll need that Wolfhead wheel and plenty of aluminum oxide abrasive loadings, some form of air tool (probably a drill) that will spin it ~800-1000 RPM, and a big compressor with the capacity to run it constantly. However, that RPM range is pretty slow for a drill, so your options are limited to those intended for manufacturing use. Inline is probably a little ergonomically-better, but I have a pistol grip and it's fine. The Wolfhead is heavy, so make sure the tool has enough power to spin it!

After you have the equipment in hand, it's down to practice and skill. As David said, having a beater panel on hand to sharpen your skills is handy and probably worth the cost to purchase one (a damaged RF fender with an antenna holes is about as cheap as it gets). The Wolfhead will get you most of the way there, but you'll still want to go over everything with a pad by hand afterwards - that makes all of the difference. But as you can see from the two attachments, it is very effective - I made some pretty nasty scratches in that panel - MUCH worse than the ones that were on my to-be-restored panel.

Also, I used 3M Safest Stripper to remove the remains of the paint on my replacement panel - I just left it sitting there for a week, then the paint scraped right off. This particular stripper takes time to do its job, but I've never had it damage anything underneath the paint and I use this stuff a LOT on cars.

Good luck.

Travis

[uhhair]

Thanks for the info, that is extremely helpful! At least now we have an idea of what sort of tools we'd need to do the job ourselves. Not that I have any idea what half of that stuff is, as my manufacturing background I would describe as non-existent in truth.

When you were stripping the paint, what did you use to peel the paint off with so that it didn't hurt the panels, some sort of plastic of metal scraper?

[tgraham]

what did you use to peel the paint off with so that it didn't hurt the panels, some sort of plastic of metal scraper?

A Scotch Brite pad is perfect.

Travis

[Z0sizzle]

I

[Malevy]

Cool looking paint job, why did you strip it?

[Z0sizzle]

I didn't want a painted car but the price was right so I bought it with the intent to return it back to stainless. There was no way I could afford a non painted car that was as nice a driver as the one I bought. Removing the paint is really not a big deal, it's a very simple job.

[uhhair]

Well your finished product looks awesome, so now we are more determined than ever! So you put paint stripper on, then covered the car to let the stripper work more effectively, is that what I'm gathering from the pictures?

[Z0sizzle]

thanks!, i did not cover the stripper with anything, if i tried that with the product i used it would have just melted the plastic and made a huge mess. I guess it depends on the chemical you use, with the stuff i used there was no reason to cover it. I just brushed it on and waited untill it bubbled, then scraped it off.

this is the stuff i used:

http://www.amazon.com/KLEAN-STRIP-GAR777-ODOR-AIRCRAFT-REMOVER/dp/B000GTHJCM

[LEVY]

uhhair,

We also had a red Delorean, let me see if I can post some pictures so you can make a decision on what product to use. The product we used, was safe enough to use on the facias too!

Give me a few minutes and I will post pictures. I already posted pictures on the old site but seems like those pictures are now gone.

Levy


Well your finished product looks awesome, so now we are more determined than ever! So you put paint stripper on, then covered the car to let the stripper work more effectively, is that what I'm gathering from the pictures?

[LEVY]

Here are some of the pictures, as you can see, all the paint layers came off with the paper, very little to clean!




uhhair,

We also had a red Delorean, let me see if I can post some pictures so you can make a decision on what product to use. The product we used, was safe enough to use on the facias too!

Give me a few minutes and I will post pictures. I already posted pictures on the old site but seems like those pictures are now gone.

Levy

[A Van]

You will only find out the state of the stainless once you have started stripping!..I have seen my old Red car stripped with flawless stainless underneath, and another which had been keyed with an orbital sander.

[Dangermouse]

There is a guy in Europe (Hungary I think) who used a flapper wheel with a drill. He mounted the drill in a homemade jig and pushed the panels through the jig, which kept the distance and hence pressure roughly equal, not to mention not being so tiring.

Obviously he took each panel off the car but as he was doing a frame off anyway, it was no problem

Took me a while to find it, but the guy was in Slovakia, not Hungary - hence the confusion ;), although he is a member of the Delorean club of Hungary.

He is a gentleman (I presume) with the handle "Bopat" - I think he was on the old forum also. He stripped a red car as part of an ambitious restoration of vin 701. Thanks to him for the following pics from his blog.

The rig:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YgwwenlavIw/TStt6MVjVTI/AAAAAAAADFs/TyISUelR4EA/s1600/P1106439_resize.JPG

Stripped of paint, but swirls clearly visible

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YgwwenlavIw/TStt5azkzvI/AAAAAAAADFk/_8CbDK8-2oQ/s1600/P1106436_resize.JPG

After:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YgwwenlavIw/TStt03cV6kI/AAAAAAAADFM/nzoS5ZaFXAk/s1600/P1106426_resize.JPG

And his blog with his other substantial resto work on this car

http://dmc701.blogspot.com/

And even a short video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBOlnH8_eJ0&feature=player_embedded#at=12

[uhhair]

Wow, that is an awesome link, thanks! It looks like the best method is to somehow isolate either the panel or the wheel so that one of them is completely stationary, to make sure the grain is straight as possible. Hmms, oh the ideas! I can't wait until this winter to get this project underway!

Thanks so much guys for all the links, they're really extremely helpful.

[Bopat]

I'm here, If you any questions, just let me know. :)
Unfortunately we could not remove 100% of those scratches from the hood, but that was the idiotism of the previous owner, that he removed the paint with this primitive method.

[Bopat]

Took me a while to find it, but the guy was in Slovakia, not Hungary - hence the confusion ;), although he is a member of the Delorean club of Hungary.

He is a gentleman (I presume) with the handle "Bopat" - I think he was on the old forum also. He stripped a red car as part of an ambitious restoration of vin 701. Thanks to him for the following pics from his blog.



I live in Slovakia, but I'm Hungarian :) As the 2 countries are next to each other, this is nothing special :)

[1batt4u]

Changed my old key lockset from my doors, I put the new door lockset, which is a little smaller in diameter. There is a slight difference in shininess and a slight dark ring residue from the old door lock. How can I remove that?? I've tried several things, but nothing.

[Pags44]

Does regraining affect car value? Or any type of body work for that matter?

After watching barret Jackson, mecum, and such...most of those cars undergo paint jobs at some point but not sure about bodywork.

It seems that all original cars usually sell for more...is it the same with our cars?

[uhhair]

I don't know about just regraining a car, but stripping the paint off of our car and regraining the stainless will definitely improve the value of it. Painted deloreans aren't as sought after for obvious reasons, and definitely sell for less money on average than a comparable stainless delorean.

I would think that regraining a delorean that is in need of it would obviously improve the value as well, since it improves the overall condition of the vehicle.

[1batt4u]

Changed my old key lockset from my doors, I put the new door lockset, which is a little smaller in diameter. There is a slight difference in shininess and a slight dark ring residue from the old door lock. How can I remove that?? I've tried several things, but nothing.

Anyone on what I mentioned?? :confused:

[dmc6960]

Anyone on what I mentioned?? :confused:

Your supposed to freshen that up before the new lock set is installed. Running a coarse grain scotch-brite pad along with the grain a few times would be sufficient.

Jim Reeve
DMC6960

[1batt4u]

Your supposed to freshen that up before the new lock set is installed. Running a coarse grain scotch-brite pad along with the grain a few times would be sufficient.

Jim Reeve
DMC6960

Yes, I tried to do that before I installed the new door locks. I tried several cleaning methods. I tried like someone said Windex with WD-40, I have a certain polish that can polish the D's panels good, some improvement, but did not get rid of that "ring/circle" residue from the old lockset. I tried a scotch pad as well several times, holding the pad on a wood block, going in one directions only, picking it up and going over it again a bunch of times.

[kings1527]

I'm here, If you any questions, just let me know. :)
Unfortunately we could not remove 100% of those scratches from the hood, but that was the idiotism of the previous owner, that he removed the paint with this primitive method.

Very nice work, Bopat.

I am in the middle of regrading my car right now with a Wolfhead, but I'm a little nervous to use pressure on the hood itself. I don't want to get an "X" in the hood. I'm having great luck on the other panels. Everything is looking great. It seems like on those you can use as much pressure is you want and you're not going to hurt anything.

But how much pressure is too much pressure for the hood? Do you really have to work hard to get an X in the hood, or can it happen very easily?

If anyone else has any experience with it, I'd love to hear about it.

[john 05141]

In the process of refurbishing my parent's house I had to strip off layers of paint from an old railing of the stairs. Very beautifully crafted 50 years ago, the paint was awefull, but a nightmare to peel. I used chemicals, but it is a job that never ends.
I ended up renting a dry ice paint stripper. Not that cheap, especially the ice. Quite noisy too, but the job was done very fast, very good and the ice vaporates, but the paint is everywhere, but a good clean will solve that.

If I had to stip a Delorean, I'd use the same system. You can get several types of nozzels and you can set the force of the blast.
Check if someone in your area rents those, remove the T-panel (I think the quickest part to remove and take it over there and ask for a "sample".

Jan

[JMLaux]

Anyone on what I mentioned?? :confused:

80 grit sand paper following with the grain until the ring is removed followed by a 3M 7446 blending pad should do the trick. I use the 3M SandBlaster 421-080 flexible sanding pads with the foam on the back and they work great. Got rid of some bad scratches and hid some pretty nasty pitting from the old side stripe doing it this way.

[Michael]

I just picked up the tail end of this thread... If you use 80grit sandpaper followed by the 3m 60 grit stripping pads, followed by the blending pads, it will come out...as long as you are touching it. I think the problem may be in your method. If you are using a block then you are assuming the panel is perfectly flat, very few are, especially at the lock hole. These are often tightened too much causing the metal to cave in around the footprint of the lock. Try it by hand making sure you are touching the area.