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View Full Version : General How to modify the wings-a-loft system to allow for the addition of a manual switch?



DeloreanJoshQ
05-23-2012, 01:33 PM
Does anyone know how to successfully add a manual switch to the wings-a-loft system?
I have wired up a spare power window switch and put it in place of the driver side dummy switch in the console wired to only work with the key in the ignition.

-If I connect the "up and down" connections to each of the wires going to the door actuators after the wings-a-loft relays, the doors open perfectly one by one as I press "up" or "down". However, the wireless remote function doesn't work; it acts as though it doesn't have enough power to pull on the actuators in the doors(I can hear it try-perhaps power is back-feeding to the manual switch when the remote opening switch is pressed?). This was the closest I was to getting everything to work....

-If I wire the window switch connection before the relay(tested one door setup) by tapping into the signal wire from the remotezilla box(that tells the door to open), it doesn't work at all; somehow it causes the door actuator to get constant power and keeps the door latch pulled open, even with the key out of the ignition.

I'm trying to think how else I can wire the switch so that I have the option to open the doors through a manual electical switch while inside the car and keep the wireless remote functioning when I am outside the car.

I saw that the DMC-EV car has buttons in the center console to open the driver side, passenger side, or both doors....so there has to be a way.....

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575011_10151694764545696_671145695_24099031_151771 9047_n.jpg


Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Josh Q

dmc6960
05-23-2012, 05:07 PM
The window switches work by reversing polarity. I dont think there is a single common pin that applies the same power to either output. This may require complex wiring with diodes and an extra relay to get to work. Singular push-buttons (or two window switches) would be simpler here (like the EV). How handy are you with such things? I can draw up a schematic to use the window switch if your up to the challenge. Is the trigger pulse from the remote box (+) or (-)?

DeloreanJoshQ
05-23-2012, 05:36 PM
The window switches work by reversing polarity. I dont think there is a single common pin that applies the same power to either output. This may require complex wiring with diodes and an extra relay to get to work. Singular push-buttons (or two window switches) would be simpler here (like the EV). How handy are you with such things? I can draw up a schematic to use the window switch if your up to the challenge. Is the trigger pulse from the remote box (+) or (-)?

I'm up for the challenge.

I know Toby asked me last year if the trigger pulse was + or - , but I forget which one it is. How do I tell? I have the lockzilla and remotezilla setup already installed from the previous owner.

Was it a fluke that I was able to open each door by pushing down or up on the power window switch?
-I wired the switch just like a normal power window switch(tapped into hot and ground from an adjacent switch). I then ran the "up" and "down"(opposite end connectors on the switch) wires from the switch back to the wings-a-loft wiring and connected them to the wires going out to the door actuators.
-When I look at the wiring diagram, the switch, when rocked, should send 12 volts to either end connector on the switch to the two different connectors on the power window motor from the center power connector that is 12 volt switched.
I thought this meant that the polarity change was handled at the motor and not the switch?

The goal is to keep the interior looking stock, so that is why I was hoping to use the power window switch(with the arrows cleaned off) to open the doors. If two have to be used, that is fine, I just need another used switch. However, I need some schooling on why that works over just one.

I wondered if a diode would be required to keep electricity from going back to the switch,relay or remotezilla box.....

I would definately appreciate the help!

Thanks!

nullset
05-23-2012, 05:57 PM
You need isolation diodes to make this work.

A diode works by making sure power only flows through it one way. With proper diodes, your window switch circuit would be able to provide +12 to the 'open' actuator for each door, but not drag it down to ground, which prevents other things from doing it.

Switch Output ------|<---------- Actuator (after the relay)

( The -|<- is a diode. You want the 'bar' on the output side of it). Toby provides these diodes with his kit, but if you need extras, you can get any 12V compatible diode and experiment with it.

--buddy

DeloreanJoshQ
05-23-2012, 05:58 PM
You need isolation diodes to make this work.

A diode works by making sure power only flows through it one way. With proper diodes, your window switch circuit would be able to provide +12 to the 'open' actuator for each door, but not drag it down to ground, which prevents other things from doing it.

Switch Output ------|<---------- Actuator (after the relay)

( The -|<- is a diode. You want the 'bar' on the output side of it). Toby provides these diodes with his kit, but if you need extras, you can get any 12V compatible diode and experiment with it.

--buddy

How many do I need and where exactly do they need to be installed? Would radioshack have them? Are solderless versions available?

Thanks for the help!

DeloreanJoshQ
05-23-2012, 06:42 PM
I believe I would just use one diode at each connection point between the window switch and wings aloft wiring.....and one from each signal wire from remote zilla....that should separate them....

nullset
05-23-2012, 06:49 PM
I believe I would just use one diode at each connection point between the window switch and wings aloft wiring.....

That's correct.

--buddy

Spittybug
05-23-2012, 07:03 PM
Something like this? Joystick is L/R door pop and F/B lock and unlock. Window switches moved up too.

DeloreanJoshQ
05-23-2012, 07:28 PM
Radio shack isn't any help finding the correct diode.

Would any of you be able to tell me what type of diode to use?
There are 312 different diodes on www.radioshack.com.....
how would I know how to narrow down the list?

nullset
05-23-2012, 07:52 PM
This should help: http://www.the12volt.com/diodes/diodes.asp

--buddy

DeloreanJoshQ
05-23-2012, 08:29 PM
I appreciate that. I have a positive trigger from the remotezilla.
Now I just need to figure out what diode to buy at Radioshack......

nullset
05-23-2012, 09:01 PM
I appreciate that. I have a positive trigger from the remotezilla.
Now I just need to figure out what diode to buy at Radioshack......

1N4XXX, where XXX is anything.

You want to connect to the OUTPUT side of the relays, not the input side. If you connect to the input side next to the remotezilla you may damage it.

Remotezilla ------> Relay ---------+---------> Door Popper ------> GROUND
Window Switch ------<|------------|
(DIODE)

Hopefully my ASCII diagram makes sense.

--buddy

DeloreanJoshQ
05-23-2012, 09:07 PM
Like this?

"1N4001 Micro 1A Diodes"

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036268&filterName=Type&filterValue=Diodes#

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2077854w345.jpg


How do you connect it? can I use butt connectors or does it have to be soldered?

nullset
05-23-2012, 09:10 PM
That should be fine. Basically any diode will do, as long as it'll handle the current you're putting through it. That 1A diode should do just fine.

--buddy

Nicholas R
05-24-2012, 12:14 AM
If you're going to use a 4xxx series diode from radioshack, definitely get 1N4007's as they have the highest reverse breakdown voltage (1amp 1000v), and I'm pretty positive radio shack sells them (course some radioshacks are a LOT better than others). Whenever I was replacing pinball or arcade game diodes I always upgraded to the 4007s. Still, those are somewhat small circuit board diodes (only 1amp); you should be able to find something a little bigger at radioshack. I know from experience that they sell 1N540X diodes that are 3 amp. I dont know what kind of current the launchers use but just something to consider. Their website shows them having at least 1N5404 (3amp 400V) Diodes: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062579 I know I had to buy them when rebuilding the power supply of my old Jurassic Park Pinball and I got them at a radioshack in Orlando, haha.


Here's a quick breakdown of the different types with their voltage and amperage ratings

Voltage - 1 Amp ---3 Amp
50 V----1N4001-- 1N5400
100 V --1N4002-- 1N5401
200 V --1N4003-- 1N5402
300 V —--------- 1N5403
400 V --1N4004-- 1N5404
500 V —--------- 1N5405
600 V --1N4005-- 1N5406
800 V --1N4006-- 1N5407
1000 V--1N4007-- 1N5408

Also just fyi you do NOT want a "Zener Diode"

DeloreanJoshQ
05-24-2012, 09:12 AM
If you're going to use a 4xxx series diode from radioshack, definitely get 1N4007's as they have the highest reverse breakdown voltage (1amp 1000v), and I'm pretty positive radio shack sells them (course some radioshacks are a LOT better than others). Whenever I was replacing pinball or arcade game diodes I always upgraded to the 4007s. Still, those are somewhat small circuit board diodes (only 1amp); you should be able to find something a little bigger at radioshack. I know from experience that they sell 1N540X diodes that are 3 amp. I dont know what kind of current the launchers use but just something to consider. Their website shows them having at least 1N5404 (3amp 400V) Diodes: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062579 I know I had to buy them when rebuilding the power supply of my old Jurassic Park Pinball and I got them at a radioshack in Orlando, haha.


Here's a quick breakdown of the different types with their voltage and amperage ratings

Voltage - 1 Amp ---3 Amp
50 V----1N4001-- 1N5400
100 V --1N4002-- 1N5401
200 V --1N4003-- 1N5402
300 V —--------- 1N5403
400 V --1N4004-- 1N5404
500 V —--------- 1N5405
600 V --1N4005-- 1N5406
800 V --1N4006-- 1N5407
1000 V--1N4007-- 1N5408

Also just fyi you do NOT want a "Zener Diode"



Thanks Nicholas! How do I connect these in-line? Can I just crimp the ends with butt-connectors to the wires or do I have to solder them?

nullset
05-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Thanks Nicholas! How do I connect these in-line? Can I just crimp the ends with butt-connectors to the wires or do I have to solder them?

I would crimp and then solder. You can probably just test by crimping it, though.

--buddy

Nicholas R
05-24-2012, 02:23 PM
Agreed, definitely use solder in this connection.

dmc6960
05-24-2012, 02:36 PM
Just thought of something. Are you hooking up both 12v and GND for the trigger relay coils to the window switch?

Since your Remotezilla output is 12v, try hooking up JUST the 12v to the window switch and the relay. Have the source power for the relay come from the lock breaker. I'd also suggest, for safety, have the GND for the relay coil come from the parking brake switch. I'm wiring mine up like that. I do believe this way you do not need diodes in the circuit. However I never verified last night the function of a window switch if the outputs are both open when not activated. That would need to be verified first.

dmc6960
05-24-2012, 03:03 PM
Does this make sense? This can only work if the outputs of the window switch test OPEN when not activated. (Leaving the other input open should accomplish this, but I'm just repeating it just to be safe). I see no need for diodes to prevent back-feed into the RemoteZilla as those connections should be OPEN when not activated. If for whatever reason they are grounded, diodes would be necessary or you may blow the device.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=10646&d=1337886080

DeloreanJoshQ
06-22-2012, 09:11 PM
Thanks for all of the help guys! I was finally able to get back to this and finally have it working. I will give it a couple of weeks of beta testing first, but I believe it will work fine.

I used a diode for each actuator. I connected it to each of the two wires coming from the window switch. I then tapped each window switch diode wire to each wire after the relay on each side going directly out to the door actuator.

Now, when I press up or down on the window switch briefly, the corresponding door opens. And, when I press the button(s) on my remote, the corresponding door(s) open as well. I no longer have to open the doors mechanically inside or out! I also tested and the doors will not open if they are locked, so that would help prevent accidently door opening while driving.

No smoke, smell, fire, melt, burn, etc. yet. Again, I am going to do some field testing, but it looks promising...

I will touch base again in a couple few weeks....

Thanks again!!

Josh Q

Nicholas R
06-22-2012, 09:33 PM
Dude this is awesome! Write this up as a how too or something and have it put in the resources section. I'm sure you're not the only person that would like to have door buttons inside the car!

DMCMW Dave
06-23-2012, 10:24 PM
Now, when I press up or down on the window switch briefly, the corresponding door opens. And, when I press the button(s) on my remote, the corresponding door(s) open as well. I no longer have to open the doors mechanically inside or out! I also tested and the doors will not open if they are locked, so that would help prevent accidently door opening while driving.

Josh Q

I like Jim's (unmentioned) feature that grounds the circuit through the parking brake. I really don't like the idea of a sloppy passenger hitting a door laucher switch thinking she's rolling down the window at 60 mph in the event you forgot to lock the doors. It would be easy to wire it to interlock on an automatic so that the doors would only pop in park or neutral, but the manual is a more interesting challenge and the parking brake is about as good as you can do.

If it were my car I'd hide a couple of pushbutton switches under the driver kneepad.

Nicholas R
06-23-2012, 11:31 PM
I like Jim's (unmentioned) feature that grounds the circuit through the parking brake. I really don't like the idea of a sloppy passenger hitting a door laucher switch thinking she's rolling down the window at 60 mph in the event you forgot to lock the doors. It would be easy to wire it to interlock on an automatic so that the doors would only pop in park or neutral, but the manual is a more interesting challenge and the parking brake is about as good as you can do.

If it were my car I'd hide a couple of pushbutton switches under the driver kneepad.

Do you have any idea what they did on the DMCEV?

You could put in a relay with the brake light circuit that only closes the circuits to the switches when the brake is pressed. Course you do still use the brakes while driving...

DMCMW Dave
06-23-2012, 11:53 PM
Do you have any idea what they did on the DMCEV?

...

No - I never analyzed it or tried to push the buttons with the car moving. Or even in one of the "gears". I suspect it was locked out if the knob was in forward or reverse but I don't really know.

Nicholas R
06-24-2012, 12:31 AM
No - I never analyzed it or tried to push the buttons with the car moving. Or even in one of the "gears". I suspect it was locked out if the knob was in forward or reverse but I don't really know.

Makes sense. Considering all the electronics of that car plus the programming, a door launch lockout is practically one line of code or one rung of logic.

billet351
09-05-2012, 09:39 PM
hi Guys. i am really pushing to get my car on the road in seven weeks, I have sourced a remote door popper hear in Australia. My theory is to have the solenoid pull the same lever the interior door handle does, thus opening the door. With this Wings-aloft, do they run extra wires into the doors (major PIA) or use existing spare wires. I thought of using the heated mirror wiring but it becomes a common cable for both doors before entering the car, thanks for any help offered, cheers Bill

Michael
09-05-2012, 10:09 PM
hi Guys. i am really pushing to get my car on the road in seven weeks, I have sourced a remote door popper hear in Australia. My theory is to have the solenoid pull the same lever the interior door handle does, thus opening the door. With this Wings-aloft, do they run extra wires into the doors (major PIA) or use existing spare wires. I thought of using the heated mirror wiring but it becomes a common cable for both doors before entering the car, thanks for any help offered, cheers Bill

The Wings A Loft system is just a great addition for a Delorean. They are time consuming to install, but fairly straightforward. There are no additional wires to run in the door harness, but you do need to access the door inside to install the actuators. The wiring is all in the relay compartment which will be a birds nest unless you keep things labeled and tidy with tie straps. It's a little extra effort to make it look nice but worth it.

I would highly recommend you just spend the $200.00 and get Toby's system, rather than try and build your own. It's all laid out with instructions and all parts included. I honestly think they are underpriced.

Ron
09-06-2012, 12:27 AM
hi Guys. i am really pushing to get my car on the road in seven weeks, I have sourced a remote door popper hear in Australia. My theory is to have the solenoid pull the same lever the interior door handle does, thus opening the door. With this Wings-aloft, do they run extra wires into the doors (major PIA) or use existing spare wires. I thought of using the heated mirror wiring but it becomes a common cable for both doors before entering the car, thanks for any help offered, cheers Bill

A little info here http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?4859-What-is-this-Yellow-white-wire-in-Door-Harness

Tillsy
09-06-2012, 01:08 AM
With this Wings-aloft, do they run extra wires into the doors (major PIA) or use existing spare wires.

The kit offers a couple of ways of doing it. You can make use of the extra (mirror heater) wire, but that involves some rewiring since obviously that is not fully usable as is. Alternatively you can take advantage of the fact that the door locks contain a dedicated negative feed all the way to the door - even though there was no real need since it could have used a common one or simply grounded to door. The wings-a-loft suggests disconnecting this, grounding the existing (solenoid or upgraded actuator) to the door, and then re-using that negative feed as a controller for the door popper.

Disclaimer - I am speaking theory here as I haven't yet installed mine, it is amongst the (quite large now) pile of gear for future installation.

DeloreanJoshQ
03-19-2013, 09:25 AM
Just wanted to report that my manual interior door launching switch (power window switch) still is working great!
As long as I lock the doors once the driver and passenger is inside, there has been no danger of the doors opening while driving and they work flawlessly every time. The only thing that might be nice is if they would open with the key out of the ignition. But I'd rather not have the switch hot all the time.

This option has been really convenient when pulling up to pick someone up and adds to more Delorean excitement!

DMCSPRINT
06-06-2015, 02:41 PM
Just wanted to report that my manual interior door launching switch (power window switch) still is working great!
As long as I lock the doors once the driver and passenger is inside, there has been no danger of the doors opening while driving and they work flawlessly every time. The only thing that might be nice is if they would open with the key out of the ignition. But I'd rather not have the switch hot all the time.

This option has been really convenient when pulling up to pick someone up and adds to more Delorean excitement!

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but is there a detailed instruction list on how to do this? I'm going to get Toby's door launcher kit and will have a shop install it for me and figured they could do the manual door launcher like you described. appreciate any info you can give me. Thanks

Tillsy
06-06-2015, 06:07 PM
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but is there a detailed instruction list on how to do this? I'm going to get Toby's door launcher kit and will have a shop install it for me and figured they could do the manual door launcher like you described. appreciate any info you can give me. Thanks

The way I did it was to wire up buttons to trigger the relays, which in turn trigger the door launchers.

I used the park brake as a source of negative feed to ensure the buttons would only work when the car was not being driven. Likewise the illumination of the buttons themselves, so that it is obvious when the buttons do and do not work.

I also did exactly the same with the trunk release, so that this likewise is done with a button and that it only illuminates and works when the car is not in motion.

DeloreanJoshQ
06-07-2015, 11:05 AM
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but is there a detailed instruction list on how to do this? I'm going to get Toby's door launcher kit and will have a shop install it for me and figured they could do the manual door launcher like you described. appreciate any info you can give me. Thanks

There are many different ways to accomplish this as stated. I have a window switch (with the arrows removed) in the slot closest to the driverside in place of the dummy switch. Power and ground come from the adjacent window switch so that they can only be opened with the keys in the ignition. You could set it up to work without the keys in the ignition by providing power from the battery or fuse box with a constant power circuit. Then i have one wire going to the driver door and the other going to the passenger door depending on which position you hit the switch; i believe there are 4 wires total going to a window switch. It would be best to use relays; i used diodes to prevent back-feeding in the wires going to the door actuators. If you are not sure how to do this, hopefully the shop installing it does as it is a pretty simple installation, though it will take 2-4 hours for the complete installation with the doors apart; maybe more.

Patrick C
06-07-2015, 03:20 PM
I have mine wired so they can operate with the car on or off. The illumination comes on when the car is running. As long as the doors are locked and the locks and linkages are aligned correctly, pushing the buttons will not allow for the door to open due to how the DeLorean door locks work.

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34870&d=1433704804