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Regulus
06-16-2011, 09:29 PM
Hello everyone,

I'm going to replace my fuel pump soon, but I can't find a step by step in the shop manual.

It looks pretty straight forward. unfasten the screw-down collar, remove the protective cap. Then disconnect the two hoses, lift the pump and sealing ring. then disconnect fuel pick up hose. is this right? to reinstall, reverse the procedure.

How is the filter replaced? do I just reach inside the tank with some rubber gloves and remove the baffle assembly with filter?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks,

stevedmc
06-16-2011, 09:39 PM
How is the filter replaced? do I just reach inside the tank with some rubber gloves and remove the baffle assembly with filter?

It sounds like you have it all figured out except for the rubber glove part. I like getting my hands dirty.

Regulus
06-16-2011, 09:41 PM
Right on the first guess?

There's a first time for everything.

Thanks,

David T
06-16-2011, 09:45 PM
It would seem a pretty straight-forward R & R but there are some tips and tricks that make it go easier. For instance you MUST hold back if you are undoing the hoses to the metal lines. You do NOT want to kink them. You may find the wires going to the pump are all corroded. The vendors sell the short harness. If the rubber cover and boot is old and hard it shrank and you will have a lot of trouble trying to put it back together. The frame might be all rusty. The pick-up hose may be soft, swollen, cut, kinked, etc and need to be replaced. To remove the baffle/filter assembly you have to disassemble it in the tank and remove it in pieces. Reverse order to put back. One-handed and blind. Do not over-tighten the nut on the stud in the tank. You can rip it out of the bottom. The parts and the inside of the tank usually clean up pretty well with Acetone but it is dangerous and toxic. Bottom line, it is never "JUST". plan on the job being bigger than you expect and you won't often be disappointed.
David Teitelbaum

Regulus
06-16-2011, 09:51 PM
It would seem a pretty straight-forward R & R but there are some tips and tricks that make it go easier. For instance you MUST hold back if you are undoing the hoses to the metal lines. You do NOT want to kink them.


Hi Dave,

What do you mean by "hold back" exactly? I'm afraid I don't follow.

Michael
06-17-2011, 07:31 AM
I would also suggest that if you are going to work on the baffle assembley and pickup, you do this with a near empty tank. Also, pick up a pair of chemical resistant gloves that go halfway up your arm...a good flashlight helps too.

On the fuel pump, it might be a good idea to mark, or take a pic of how the pump sits in the boot and how the boot is orientated. It does matter. Those fuel lines must be positioned correctly or the tire cover will not seat in place over it. The pump pick-up line MUST be positioned correctly or it will kink. Even if it is off just a little bit, it will kink when it gets warm(I personally think it's too thin and soft to begin with..and that would be one of those "upgraded" parts I would like to see).

If the boot, cap, and pickup hose are original, I would go ahead and replace them at this time. It's almost certain the cap has shrank and you will not get it on right, and the boot may easily crack or tear during all the "manhandling" of replacing the pump. The pick-up line is a no-brainer....cheap part.

82DMC12
06-17-2011, 08:29 AM
Hi Dave,

What do you mean by "hold back" exactly? I'm afraid I don't follow.

He means don't go all ape-shxt on it. Use some restraint and use the right tools, namely flare-end wrenches - NOT vise-grips or channel locks! Apply the proper angle to the torque so the pipes don't kink. Use TWO wrenches - one on the male, one on the female. There's a lot of ways to mess this up, and only one correct way.

Andy

Chris 16409
06-17-2011, 10:09 AM
The pump pick-up line MUST be positioned correctly or it will kink. Even if it is off just a little bit, it will kink when it gets warm(I personally think it's too thin and soft to begin with..and that would be one of those "upgraded" parts I would like to see). The pick-up line is a no-brainer....cheap part.

I bought a new pickup hose from DMCNW, and it was a DMCH reproduction part. That means it's a new part. The hose was much stiffer than the one I removed, and it had the same shape. It's not just a straight hose, it is moulded just like the original. As far as the price, it was over $40, probably because it was a custom made hose. Toby told me they choose the best material that would survive in the gas tank.

John U
06-17-2011, 11:09 AM
just did this one....here's some photos that might help you get an idea

one thing that I don't think was mentioned...the baffle is held on by a nut. Also, the baffle should be disassembled in the tank so you can remove it easily

John

jmrydholm
06-17-2011, 04:14 PM
Does anyone know the type of screws used in the covers placed over the fuel pump/filler and clutch cylinder area in the hood? I had a bunch of work done on my D and somehow the screws were misplaced. I also seem to have lost my workshop manual...:angry: kicking myself over that. I may have to invest in another. This would be part 106002 according to the diagram.

stevedmc
06-17-2011, 04:32 PM
He could just replace it with a tuna fish can and not have all the headache of worring about colapsing hoses and any other problems. I have been using a tuna can for about a year without any fuel pickup problems at all. Shoot, I have even driven until the fuel light has come on with no problems.

content22207
06-17-2011, 05:28 PM
Does anyone know the type of screws used in the covers placed over the fuel pump/filler and clutch cylinder area in the hood?

M5x.8's. 10-32's are almost identical, but you'll need to run a tap down the rivnuts first (10-32's are just a micron bigger diameter).

Bill Robertson
#5939

content22207
06-17-2011, 05:33 PM
He could just replace it with a tuna fish can and not have all the headache of worring about colapsing hoses and any other problems. I have been using a tuna can for about a year without any fuel pickup problems at all. Shoot, I have even driven until the fuel light has come on with no problems.

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison -- a carbureted DeLorean will run just fine with no baffle in the tank whatsoever (the fuel bowl itself acts as a baffle). In the bad old days gas tanks didn't have baffles -- just pipes stuck into the tank.

Hervey's fuel injection baffle is basically the same size as a tuna fish can, but it doesn't have a solid bottom (a tuna fish can holds fuel better, IMHO).

Bill Robertson
#5939

stevedmc
06-17-2011, 05:55 PM
Not exactly an apples to apples comparison -- a carbureted DeLorean will run just fine with no baffle in the tank whatsoever (the fuel bowl itself acts as a baffle). In the bad old days gas tanks didn't have baffles -- just pipes stuck into the tank.

Hervey's fuel injection baffle is basically the same size as a tuna fish can, but it doesn't have a solid bottom (a tuna fish can holds fuel better, IMHO).

Bill Robertson
#5939

He probably wouldn't be able to run the tank as low as I have but I'm sure it would work. Like you said, Hervey sells a similar device but it leaks out much more fuel than a tuna can. If Hervey is willing to sell something it is a pretty good indicator that it works and makes things more reliable.

DMCMW Dave
06-17-2011, 07:29 PM
Does anyone know the type of screws used in the covers placed over the fuel pump/filler and clutch cylinder area in the hood? I had a bunch of work done on my D and somehow the screws were misplaced. I also seem to have lost my workshop manual...:angry: kicking myself over that. I may have to invest in another. This would be part 106002 according to the diagram.

http://www.delorean.com/store/p-9589-screw-m5-x-16.aspx

rddmc
06-17-2011, 07:47 PM
My suggestion is before starting this job, disconnect the battery. Have lots of ventilation and keep a fan at a distance blowing air over the open fuel tank. Others have given good advice. My in tank system is stock and I am satisfied with the setup but I have always felt that the tuna can/Hervey modification is a clever option.

Rod
10921

stevedmc
06-17-2011, 07:58 PM
Plus if you replace your baffle with a tuna can you can sell your old baffle. I believe there is at least one vendor who offers to buy old baffles. Some people just prefer them to tuna and that is perfectly fine.

I would have sold my old baffle but I ended up trading it for a replacement engine. I have never regretted that decision.

Regulus
06-17-2011, 08:53 PM
just did this one....here's some photos that might help you get an idea


Thanks John, the pictures help,

And thanks everyone else for the pointer. One question; when removing the fuel return hose (with a flare ended wrench) which nut do I turn while holding the other static (as not to kink the line.) i'm guessing its the lower (larger one) that stays static.

DMCMW Dave
06-17-2011, 11:54 PM
Don't undo the nuts. If you do you will likely find that the fittings are stuck together anyway. There is no need. Slit the old hoses, and install the new hoses on the barbs in place.

Chris 16409
06-18-2011, 12:09 AM
I would have sold my old baffle but I ended up trading it for a replacement engine. I have never regretted that decision.

How on earth did you trade your baffle for an engine!? Did you just get a discounted price or was it a straight trade?

DCUK Martin
06-19-2011, 08:24 AM
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?60-DeLorean-Fuel-System-1-(YouTube)

Regulus
06-19-2011, 02:50 PM
Martin,

Thanks a lot, that answers just about any question I could have!

TTait
06-19-2011, 11:48 PM
If you do cut the connectors off the feed and return lines to install new ones, you should label them first. Label both, labels sometimes fall off

03238 was apparently parked for a dozen years as a non runner because these two hoses got swapped when a fuel pump was installed. After a dozen years though she was a non runner for sure.

WelmoedJ
06-20-2011, 02:25 PM
If you do cut the connectors off the feed and return lines to install new ones, you should label them first. Label both, labels sometimes fall off

03238 was apparently parked for a dozen years as a non runner because these two hoses got swapped when a fuel pump was installed. After a dozen years though she was a non runner for sure.

Upper is feed, lower is return.
No need to label.

jmrydholm
06-20-2011, 07:52 PM
Thank you guys, for the screw reference too! I found a few I didn't lose, but I might have accidentally sucked up a few when vacuuming the luggage compartment with my girl's Rainbow vac. (Man, I love that thing. It's like my own personal DeLorean shop vac!)

-John
#10715

DCUK Martin
06-27-2011, 04:28 AM
Martin,

Thanks a lot, that answers just about any question I could have!

You're welcome... I posted that from my iPad in a visitor centre in the Scottish Highlands who happened to have open WiFi! Now back home on a proper computer!

1batt4u
06-27-2011, 02:05 PM
I've been hearing good things about John Hervey's fuel pump. I guess I'll go with his!! About the can, I remember someone on the old forum mentioning McMaster Carr, they sell good SS can like item. Any idea?

Thanks!!

1batt4u
06-28-2011, 01:38 PM
As far as the "can" from McMaster-Carr, anyone know which part number it was, or anyone has used it?? And does the tuna can actually work, and you guys recommend it??

Thank you!!

Regulus
07-01-2011, 09:57 PM
I've just completed the Fuel Pump (and filter) replacement. Thanks to everyone, and especially Martin (for the Video, wouldn't have touched the baffle without that info) it was a relatively straight forward 2 1/2 hours. one lingering question; how tight should the banko bolt be for the fuel line? I ask as I initially had a leak from the banjo bolt onto the pump (!) and a hard twist, I got the banjo bolt to stop leaking (at least, As far as I could tell).

Just so I'm clear there should be a washer on both sides between the "banjo" itself and the bolt and the pump? there was one on the old fuel pump, so I'm assuming so. It's just that the leak concerns me and I don't want it to develop again as I'm cruising down the road.

Thanks,

opethmike
07-01-2011, 10:12 PM
I've just completed the Fuel Pump (and filter) replacement. Thanks to everyone, and especially Martin (for the Video, wouldn't have touched the baffle without that info) it was a relatively straight forward 2 1/2 hours. one lingering question; how tight should the banko bolt be for the fuel line? I ask as I initially had a leak from the banjo bolt onto the pump (!) and a hard twist, I got the banjo bolt to stop leaking (at least, As far as I could tell).

Just so I'm clear there should be a washer on both sides between the "banjo" itself and the bolt and the pump? there was one on the old fuel pump, so I'm assuming so. It's just that the leak concerns me and I don't want it to develop again as I'm cruising down the road.

Thanks,

Yes, a washer on both sides. Check the fuel section of the shop manual for the proper torque.

WelmoedJ
07-02-2011, 04:35 AM
I've just completed the Fuel Pump (and filter) replacement. Thanks to everyone, and especially Martin (for the Video, wouldn't have touched the baffle without that info) it was a relatively straight forward 2 1/2 hours. one lingering question; how tight should the banko bolt be for the fuel line? I ask as I initially had a leak from the banjo bolt onto the pump (!) and a hard twist, I got the banjo bolt to stop leaking (at least, As far as I could tell).

Just so I'm clear there should be a washer on both sides between the "banjo" itself and the bolt and the pump? there was one on the old fuel pump, so I'm assuming so. It's just that the leak concerns me and I don't want it to develop again as I'm cruising down the road.

Thanks,

As Mike pointed out: always a copper washer at each side of banjos; all of the torques required are in the shop manual.

The other way is tighten it as much as feels right (use fingers instead of hand on the wrench).
My personal experience is that finger torqueing fuel lines, injectors and pump usually is sufficiently to prevent leaks.

You may want to adapt a(n old) 17 mm open wrench so it fits the top of the pump.
This will help to (re)tighten/torqueing the valve properly, even when the pump already is installed, and before tightening/torqueing the fuel line's banjo.
Don't forget the copper washer between valve and pump!

Welmoed.

Regulus
07-02-2011, 11:44 AM
Can anyone help me out and give me the torque for the Banjoe Bolt? My Shop Manual doesn't mention it specifically (But i think its 22 Ft/Lb)

Thanks

opethmike
07-02-2011, 11:59 AM
I don't recall the size of that bolt off the top of my head, but the torque specs from the manual are:

M8 7-9 ft/lb
M10 9-11 ft/lb
M12 14-17 ft/lb
M14 11-14 ft/lb
M12 cap nut 11-14 ft/lb
M14 cap nut 18-22 ft/lb

Regulus
07-02-2011, 01:15 PM
Perfect,

Leak fixed (I hope, I'll go for a test drive sometime this weekend)

Next bug, should the electrical connection for the pump be warm to the touch? By this I mean male/female connection, it seems quite hot after 3-4 mins of operation. I this normal?

WelmoedJ
07-02-2011, 01:21 PM
In all cases where electricity runs through wires, it also develops some level of temperature.
In case you feel the temperature of the wire is too hot to tough, there's something wrong.
Check the connectors; they are not sealed and can collect dirt, moisture etc. over the years.
Bad connections are also causing temperature rises.

The pin sin the connectors are brass alloy. They ought to look like yellowish/golden pins. If not, e.g. dull greyish or black, they prevent electricity flowing smoothly from one wire into the other.
You may also want to check the other end (at the pump).
Clean or replace to avoid build up of temperature.

Welmoed.

Bitsyncmaster
07-02-2011, 02:23 PM
Wires and connectors should not feel hot. They may feel warm if the design used marginal wire size (like our cooling fans).

I would suggest you clean or replace that connector. You really don't need a connector there so just cut it out and splice the wires.

DMC5180
07-02-2011, 11:01 PM
I don't recall the size of that bolt off the top of my head, but the torque specs from the manual are:

M8 7-9 ft/lb
M10 9-11 ft/lb
M12 14-17 ft/lb
M14 11-14 ft/lb
M12 cap nut 11-14 ft/lb
M14 cap nut 18-22 ft/lb

The M12 and M14 are Misprinted in the manual

M12 11-14
M14 14-17

It would be interesting to see if they read the same in a volvo or renualt manual

DCUK Martin
07-03-2011, 06:41 AM
Can anyone help me out and give me the torque for the Banjoe Bolt? My Shop Manual doesn't mention it specifically (But i think its 22 Ft/Lb)

Thanks

For the record: tight enough that it doesn't leak but not so tight as you snap the bolt :cowboy:

content22207
07-03-2011, 08:01 AM
If you go wrenching on a banjo bolt like it was Grade 8.8 (or even worse, 10.9) , you likely will snap it in half.

Remember that they are hollow inside -- at least 33% of their OD is missing. And they are made of very soft steel (softer than Grade 2 IMHO).

Volvo doesn't specify torque values for banjo bolts. Neither does my Renault K-Jet manual (the thin blue one).

Bill Robertson
#5939

Regulus
07-03-2011, 04:07 PM
I torqued it to 22 Ft/Lbs, and the leak has stopped. I'm going to do a few test runs with the fuel pump boot cover off, and see if an fuel accumulate on top of the pump (as of now, nothing).

Also, the hot electrical connection problem was solved by simply splicing the wires, as was recommended.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Appreciated!

content22207
07-03-2011, 04:34 PM
During my A/C break, I decided to measure an 8mm banjo bolt: OD .313" (7.95mm), hollow diameter .165" (4.19mm). That means the walls are .074" (1.88mm) thick. Material composition notwithstanding, an 8mm banjo bolt has slightly less material across its barrel than a 7mm solid bolt (35.85 sq mm versus 38.48 sq mm).

Bill Robertson
#5939

1batt4u
07-11-2012, 07:42 PM
I am working on my fuel system!! I have John Hervey's Power Pump Kit! Wanted to know about the tune can thing that some do!!

I also remember someone posting a S/S can offered at Mcmaster-Carr!! Does anyone remember?? Have a part number for it??

Thanks!!!

1batt4u
07-12-2012, 01:51 AM
Bump!

Jonathan
07-29-2018, 10:43 PM
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?60-DeLorean-Fuel-System-1-(YouTube)

This is an old thread, but still very useful. I put a new fuel pump in the car today and found this thread when I was looking for confirmation on what the torque setting was for the dome nut on top of the pump's banjo bolt. I found that, but actually have a different question now.

When I was reattaching the return hose to the pump and boot assembly, I realized the other end of my return hose isn't connected to anything. I can see clearly in Martin's video or John's photos that while the end of the hose doesn't "plug" into anything, it is supposed to be clipped into place and held against the inside edge of the baffle assembly.

I don't have any kind of clip on mine, none that I could find or feel anyway. And I'm not so sure there was one there before today. I worked with the pump and sender inside the tank years ago, but I don't recall pulling on that hose enough to dislodge it or move it much. So I don't really know how it was sitting inside there beforehand.

What I am wondering is, what is the significance of having that hose clipped in place and furthermore, clipped so that it empties/returns "inside" the baffle contained space?

That hose is under next to no pressure, so I don't foresee it flopping around all wildly inside the tank. I can't think of any reason that return fuel would need to go inside the baffle area versus outside for filtering reasons or maintaining level in that baffle.

In a perfect world I would get in there and remove the baffle and reinstall a clip (or zip-tie as I think Martin mentioned), but I'm not keen on the hassle of doing that if for no good reason. Just trying to understand what might be the downside of leaving that return hose just laying inside the tank wherever it might on its own.

DMC5180
07-29-2018, 11:54 PM
The return hose is normally positioned to dump its return fuel into the baffle cup. There is supposed to be a metal clip that holds the hose in place that clips too the top edge of the baffle cup. You can probably do the same thing by tie-wrapping the hose into the cup.

The purpose of dumping fuel into the baffle is to keep continuous fuel supplied at the pickup. The return flow is volume rate is very high. This this ensures the baffle cup is full at all times even in very low fuel conditions. Excess fuel just overflows the cup assembly continuously.

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