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View Full Version : Fuel Ethanol gas and the DeLorean



DMC3165
06-18-2011, 08:21 PM
We all know Ethanol fuels are damaging to the fuel system in older cars and cars in general. But for people like me that live in New York we can't get Ethanol free gas. The only way I can get ethanol free gas is to use Cam 2 100 octane unleaded fuel. The DeLorean runs great on it but it is now 9 bucks a gallon. I have been cutting it with regular 87 octane gas but its still expensive. Lately I've been reading about ethanol treatments from valvetec and sta-bil. I was wondering what everyone else is doing with their fuel, or are you just ignoring it all together and gassing up at the cheapest pump.

Bitsyncmaster
06-18-2011, 09:26 PM
You can't get non-ethanol gas here. So we have to live with it and fix things as they break. I just had to replace the fuel hoses on my weed wacker. Some of my other outdoor engines don't show any problems yet. In the D, the PPR o-ring needs to be viton and the fuel pump boot needs new rubber.

I guess you could get 100 LL ave-gas but don't get cought using it in the car.

Ozzie
06-18-2011, 10:36 PM
BTW, here is a site that tracks non-ethanol gasoline availability, in your State:
http://pure-gas.org/

tgraham
06-18-2011, 10:47 PM
BTW, here is a site that tracks non-ethanol gasoline availability, in your State

Nice! Thanks for that! I now know of another option close to my office.

Travis
(Just filled up with some non-ethanol petrol today).

sdg3205
06-18-2011, 11:38 PM
Yesterday when I filled up I could smell gas strongly in the car. This is the first time it's happened and it's only about 700 miles/6 months since DMC NW overhauled the fuel tank. My guess is the ethanol is already taking it's toll on the rubber.

I too have wondered if it's better to use ethanol infused fuel or high test that is ethanol free with the knowing that regular/87 is ideal for our low compression engines.

DMC3165
06-19-2011, 10:54 AM
Yesterday when I filled up I could smell gas strongly in the car. This is the first time it's happened and it's only about 700 miles/6 months since DMC NW overhauled the fuel tank. My guess is the ethanol is already taking it's toll on the rubber.

I too have wondered if it's better to use ethanol infused fuel or high test that is ethanol free with the knowing that regular/87 is ideal for our low compression engines.

This was my main reason for splitting the cam 2 with reg 87. It will knock down the octane rating while cutting down the amount of ethanol. For winter storage i had the tank empty and filled it halfway with cam 2 only. But it is getting pricey!!!! I was wondering if anyone had tried any of the ethanol fuel treatments for sale in auto parts stores like valvetec or sta-bil, I hear there are also a few other manufacturers that make the stuff.

The closest station to me that sells regular ethanol free gas is in central Pennsylvania. Approx 350 miles from where I am. Unfortunately not a viable option.

Chris4099
06-19-2011, 11:25 AM
Yesterday when I filled up I could smell gas strongly in the car. This is the first time it's happened and it's only about 700 miles/6 months since DMC NW overhauled the fuel tank. My guess is the ethanol is already taking it's toll on the rubber.

More likely a clamp is loose causing the fuel to leak out over the stop of the tank. Regardless, you need to take the inspection panel out and find the leak.


This was my main reason for splitting the cam 2 with reg 87. It will knock down the octane rating while cutting down the amount of ethanol

The problem with this is you don't want anything higher then 87 octane going through your engine (unless you have a stage 2 or turbo setup). Going higher, you are putting yourself at risk of carbon buildup due to incomplete combustion. Ethanol has been added to gas in many cities for several decades now. My D has been on a winter ethanol diet for a very long time and full time diet for about 4 years now. I replaced the original fuel pump boot about 5 years ago and the current one is still going strong. With original parts, you could have issues. But those could also be age related and really should be replaced regardless of if you have ethanol in your area or not.

Renee_1632
06-19-2011, 11:55 AM
The problem with this is you don't want anything higher then 87 octane going through your engine (unless you have a stage 2 or turbo setup).

When I first got the D, I was putting 87 (Reg) in. Then I started putting in Premium (91) since that's what my manual recommended. Which one is actually better for the DeLorean?

sdg3205
06-19-2011, 12:04 PM
When I first got the D, I was putting 87 (Reg) in. Then I started putting in Premium (91) since that's what my manual recommended. Which one is actually better for the DeLorean?

I believe that 91 in the UK is equal to 87 here. So 87 is actually correct.

Ozzie
06-19-2011, 12:17 PM
Yeah, on a stock well tuned PRV, don't waste money on Premium.
Car runs fine on 87 octane, manual recommendations are as Dave posted above.

Chris Burns
06-19-2011, 01:21 PM
This is a great thread guys.:popcorn:

The Delorean was designed with gas mileage in mind , so regular gas would be more ideal to use.

content22207
06-19-2011, 03:01 PM
The biggest problem with ethanol is its high water content (about 5%). Water of course does not burn, which is why fuel economy drops when burning gasohol. E15 is almost 1% water. E85 is more than 4% water.

The other risk of ethanol is rust. Ethanol has very high oxygen content (35%). Combined with its high moisture content, both of the components necessary to rust steel fuel system components are present in the fuel itself (steel components do not need to be exposed to the atmosphere to rust). Boaters have reported problems first, probably due the extremely high moisture environment in which they operate, but I would not be at all surprised to see land borne motorists reporting problems in due time.

If I was running K-Jet, I would be most concerned about the fuel distributor. DeLorean fuel distributor bodies and the metering piston are made of cast iron and steel. Banjo bolts are ferrous, as are the injectors themselves. The accumulator is steel. The pump is steel. Lines that connect everything together are steel. Altogether, there is a lot of rust potential in a DeLorean fuel system. Anyone who has seen an OEM baffle hold down nut (or the stud itself) knows that DeLorean fuel tanks harbored rust even before the introduction of gasohol. My suspicion is things are only going to get worse.

FWIW: The FAA explicitly prohibits ethanol in aviation fuel.

Bill Robertson
#5939

David T
06-19-2011, 05:55 PM
If you keep fresh fuel in the car and use it there have been no ill effects noticed except on old parts like the boots on the fuel pump and the pick-up hose. The parts that failed were probably way past needing to be replaced anyway and the newer ones seem to be holding up. DO NOT store the car with what they pass off as fuel, it goes bad quickly as it has a high affinity for attracting moisture out of the air. Regular gas up to 10% E is fine on a good running, well tuned Delorean.
BTW if you have an STC for auto pump gas you CAN use it in an airplane.
David Teitelbaum

content22207
06-19-2011, 06:00 PM
... BTW if you have an STC for auto pump gas you CAN use it in an airplane.

http://www.eaa.org/news/2006/2006-11-01_faa.asp

Bill Robertson
#5939

David T
06-20-2011, 12:15 PM
Thanks for that Bill, I didn't realize you can't use auto gas with alcohol even with the STC. In many areas the STC isn't going to help you if you can't get auto fuel without alcohol! Not relevant to Delorean owners but it is only going to get worse if you think it is bad now.
David Teitelbaum

WelmoedJ
06-20-2011, 02:14 PM
Over here in Europe we only have Euro gas, that is in two versions 95 and 98.
In The Netherlands the Ethanol part of pump gas was 4% (up to beginning of this year).
Now they are allowed to sell gas with 10% Ethanol without having to mention the percentage of Ehtanol.

Our cars however do not seem to have problems with Euro 95 which is a higher Octane (RON) than your 87.

I agree most of the problems are with fuel systems that have old parts and therefore it may be sound advice to all owners to start replacing the old rubbers in their fuel system. That leaves us with the problems caused by corrosion as Bill has pointed to.

Governments seem to think "learn to live with it".

Welmoed.

content22207
06-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Congress will eventually run out of money, at which time gasohol will go away. I thought the Senate had finally located its misplaced gonads last week, but they chickened out at the last minute. The ethanol industry is not self supporting. It only survives via government subsidies and mandated usage. As soon as the money runs out, it will die a quick and unmissed death. Hopefully it will cause only limited damage until then.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Bitsyncmaster
06-20-2011, 03:34 PM
Congress will eventually run out of money, at which time gasohol will go away. I thought the Senate had finally located its misplaced gonads last week, but they chickened out at the last minute. The ethanol industry is not self supporting. It only survives via government subsidies and mandated usage. As soon as the money runs out, it will die a quick and unmissed death. Hopefully it will cause only limited damage until then.

Bill Robertson
#5939

But the mandate will stay in place. So what does that mean?:mecry::mecry:

content22207
06-20-2011, 04:28 PM
Congress can mandate whatever it wants -- without government money, the industry will collapse.

Private investors will not build ethanol distilleries, and they can not operate profitably on their own.

Railroads are not going to haul ethanol without subsidies (actually the railroads are double dipping: they get subsidized freight rates, and they get a tax credit for capacity demands on their systems).

Ethanol distilleries require massive amounts of water, which is in ever shorter supply (local governments are not going to short change municipal water supplies to operate ethanol distilleries).

The days of centralized power in Washington are over. The story of the 20th Century was Washington getting bigger & bigger, and sticking its nose more & more into states' business. It's a new century, and a new paradigm. No Child Left Behind -- states are telling Congress to get out of their education business. Illegal immigration -- border states are telling Congress that they will handle it themselves. Medicaid (and other social services) -- states are ignoring federal mandates and cutting back on their own (it's their money...). Etc.

150 years later, States' Rights are finally coming into their own.

Bill Robertson
#5939

jmrydholm
06-20-2011, 07:04 PM
Hmm...I just filled up on a tankful of 89 Ethanol, should I just drive it completely near-empty and then fill up with regular, non-corn gas?

dhaney
06-20-2011, 07:32 PM
Congress will eventually run out of money, at which time gasohol will go away. I thought the Senate had finally located its misplaced gonads last week, but they chickened out at the last minute. The ethanol industry is not self supporting. It only survives via government subsidies and mandated usage. As soon as the money runs out, it will die a quick and unmissed death. Hopefully it will cause only limited damage until then.

Bill Robertson
#5939

Bill is absolutely correct and I'll try to not to incur the wrath of the site monitors and try to stay away from politics... But the Senate just recently voted to STOP Ethanol subsidies... That doesn't mean the President will sign said bill but it is a move in the right direction for food prices if nothing else.

Dan

XZypher
07-05-2011, 05:49 PM
Where is this inspection panel?


More likely a clamp is loose causing the fuel to leak out
over the stop of the tank. Regardless, you need to take the inspection panel out and find the leak.



The problem with this is you don't want anything higher then 87 octane going through your engine (unless you have a stage 2 or turbo setup). Going higher, you are putting yourself at risk of carbon buildup due to incomplete combustion. Ethanol has been added to gas in many cities for several decades now. My D has been on a winter ethanol diet for a very long time and full time diet for about 4 years now. I replaced the original fuel pump boot about 5 years ago and the current one is still going strong. With original parts, you could have issues. But those could also be age related and really should be replaced regardless of if you have ethanol in your area or not.

David T
07-05-2011, 06:01 PM
Remove the spare tire and you will see it.
David Teitelbaum

StrongBoy
01-24-2012, 03:30 AM
These are great reads and I hope that more people get to see this. The problem with ethanol is it's being marketed as the more environment-friendly option it only produces 1.94 CO2 kg/l compared to 2.44 of gasoline. What a lot of people don't know is ethanol actually produces more greenhouse gases (19%!) for the same amount of energy used of gasoline.

I dream of the day when ethanol usage is dwindling, not doubling or tripling.

Source: alcohol fuel (http://www.thedrugspot.com/alcohol/alcohol-fuel.html)

Chris Burns
01-24-2012, 09:11 AM
I just heard about this product called Sta-bil Ethanol gas treatment. It removes the water from the gas. I wonder if it would be safe to use in a Delorean. I'm going to try it in my truck.

David T
01-24-2012, 09:38 AM
Companies try to sell all kinds of additives and make all kinds of claims about it's benefits. Unless you have the equipment to properly test the claims your results will be very subjective. I would be very skeptical. BTW Ethanol in the proper concentrations will absorb water and hold it in suspension. The problem is when it gets too much water and it starts coming out of suspension. The answer is not adding more Ethanol. Back in the day (as they now say) we used to add a product called Dry Gas or Gasoline Anti-Freeze which was alcohol to absorb water so it wouldn't freeze in the winter. Too much and that was no good either.
David Teitelbaum

Chris Burns
01-24-2012, 09:59 AM
There is a gas station here locally that sells Pure Gas along with the 10% Ethanol gas. However the Pure Gas costs 30 cents more (so it's only used for Marine Engines.).

DMCMW Dave
01-24-2012, 10:57 AM
I just heard about this product called Sta-bil Ethanol gas treatment. It removes the water from the gas. I wonder if it would be safe to use in a Delorean. I'm going to try it in my truck.

Do you have a problem with your truck or are you just seeing if this stuff actually burns?

Chris Burns
01-24-2012, 04:19 PM
Just wanted to see what would happen. May be a waste though.:frown:

DMC3165
01-24-2012, 04:31 PM
Just wanted to see what would happen. May be a waste though.:frown:

I doubt it would be a waste. STA-BIL is a reputable product from a reputable company. If it's not living up to it's advertised use I'm sure a quick google search would turn up some negative feedback from unhappy customers. At worst I think it would do the same as regular STA-BIL. Either way if your doing long term storage I'd try it. My D still sees fresh gas about every 4-6 weeks even this time of year (0-1/2 tank) so I just put a few oz's of marvel mystery oil to help keep everything lubricated.

nimaside
06-09-2012, 07:15 PM
Thought this was interesting.

http://www.gizmag.com/f-22-raptor-biofuel-flight/18218/

David T
06-10-2012, 10:37 PM
Yea, that translates directly to Deloreans!
David Teitelbaum





Thought this was interesting.

http://www.gizmag.com/f-22-raptor-biofuel-flight/18218/

nimaside
06-12-2012, 03:32 AM
Yea, that translates directly to Deloreans!
David Teitelbaum

I don't understand why there are a$$ holes on every forum. Or why some people can't help but be a$$ holes.

The reason for my post was because there are several post on this thread about Ethanol and aviation. All you had to to was go back a page and read it. That's who the post was for.

I found this thread in the search. I figured it was in the open discussion area due to the aviation talk, but I see it wasn't.

Take a chill pill.