"Black" Decal Project - VIN 500 **Split From Matt's Graphic Overlay Projects**

[kajcienski]

I thought I would split this off into a new thread as there has been quite a bit of interest. I just finished a mock-up of a working "black" decal influenced by VIN 500. Since I have redesigned my A/C fascia panel I am using that graphic design first to get the bugs worked out. Below are three pictures I just took. I am using my prototype LED back panel for this. You will see that everything lights up as it should but need to change layering order in the decal to eliminate the "light spots" you see in the pictures. Also, one of the pictures looks very washed out. To the naked eye, it looks nothing like this (colors appear rich in person) but my iPhone camera seems to not like the lighting and wanted to get these pictures up. As I progress, I will post better pictures. Next step is changing the gel order in the graphic overlay to get a smoother lighting - so stay tuned to the thread!

Appears totally "black" when unlit:
11829

Graphics and text appear when car is on (daylight):
11830

Graphics and text appear when car is on (night-time):
11831

If I can get someone to send me a high-res scan of the early/mid HVAC decals (the one that matches the instrument cluster font) - I can begin replicating VIN 500's decal. Let me know!

[Farrar]

Actually, you would need more backlight during the day and less at night. I would have the backlight on full with the key, and then dimmed when the parking/headlights are engaged. Also full brightness when the dome light is on manually. This would simulate the operation of "blacked-out" indicators in more modern vehicles, in my opinion.

[kajcienski]

Actually, you would need more backlight during the day and less at night. I would have the backlight on full with the key, and then dimmed when the parking/headlights are engaged. Also full brightness when the dome light is on manually. This would simulate the operation of "blacked-out" indicators in more modern vehicles, in my opinion.

Although you can't tell from the pictures, the symbols appear crisp in daylight and at the same voltage, have a nice level of brightness in the dark (at around 9 volts with this LED setup). You could either wire into a constant voltage feed or tap into the existing feed to the light panel bulbs that already reduce voltage when the lights are turned on. I don't really see an advantage of reducing the light level at night in this case.

The goal here is to reproduce what VIN 500 had and correct the flaws in that design. The major flaw I can see is the uneven lighting in the original "black-out" panel. It would have made it not perform very well.

[Farrar]

Oh, sorry. Never mind, then.

[kajcienski]

This should show the functioning mock-up more clearly - However the "night" demonstration still looks a tad washed out on the video. In person, the color is much more even and rich for both day and night.

http://www.dreamartists.com/DeLorean-BLACKOUT-Decal-1.mp4

[dmc6960]

Farrar is right. The lighting for a blacked out decal needs to be very bright dying the day, and dimmed at night when the lights at on. It would basically the stock configuration of the lights. I can guarantee you it's not optional.

[kajcienski]

Farrar is right. The lighting for a blacked out decal needs to be very bright dying the day, and dimmed at night when the lights at on. It would basically the stock configuration of the lights. I can guarantee you it's not optional.

You guys gotta get the idea of it needing to be super bright during the day out of your head ;) I thought it would need a ton of light through the decal as well but have taken my mock-up you see in the video outside in full sunlight and the graphics show perfectly fine. The same amount of power looks great at night as well - definitely not too bright. So the drop in brightness really isn't as crucial as one might think - nor the amount of light the decal needs to show the graphics in daylight as I mentioned. What makes the decal appear "black" is only an extremely thin layer and the special Lexan textured sheet reflects light away and allows backlighting to appear clearly. That in combination with the layering I have come up with gives it unique properties. It's actually pretty cool. That being said, the drop in power when wired into the existing power when the lights are turned on works even better (and is how I have designed it so no worries) :) The whole point though being that it isn't crucial. Gotta trust me on this - I have a working prototype right in front of me.

I'll have a better example with pictures in the next few days. I'll get some outdoor pics as well. Remember that the way this is situated in the car, it won't really get direct sunlight anyway.

Thank you for feedback guys - these are genuine concerns and great suggestions!

EDIT: I am working on another new light panel (the one above is a panel modified with LED ribbon affixed to the light tubes - works leaps better than stock but trying to get a "perfectly" even light being OCD). This new one will use (and yes, I have been warned this might not work well but gotta try it anyway) illuminated wire wound around the light tubes. Wish me luck! Just trying to make this as simple of a mod as possible.

[Ryan King]

Are you making new hard plastic backings too? Or just decals? Also, does the DMC logo have back light going to it?

[Shep]

If I can get someone to send me a high-res scan of the early/mid HVAC decals (the one that matches the instrument cluster font) - I can begin replicating VIN 500's decal. Let me know!
By "early", do you mean low VIN? If so, I can try to grab a high-res (10 Megapixel) picture when I visit 559 in the shop next time. I'm aiming for this weekend or Tuesday. :wiggle:

I honestly have no idea what the HVAC design looks like on mine. I was more concerned with all the other fascinating stuff, and getting it running, to focus on the details. And now it's at DPI, so I can't run out and check real quick.

[kajcienski]

Are you making new hard plastic backings too? Or just decals? Also, does the DMC logo have back light going to it?

Hi! The setup you see in this thread is a custom setup in my own car and does indeed have lighting for the DMC Logo (I have a separate thread on it so check it out). It includes a new molded plastic light panel converted to a self-contained LED unit, a modified console bracket, and this new decal. After the new blackout decal is complete for my own car, I plan to produce the same for people with stock setups. I will include a new molded light panel that uses LEDs as this one does (or possibly El Wire) that is needed for the blackout decal to display properly and the blackout decal itself either with modernized graphics similar to what you see here or a reproduction of what I speculate VIN 500 looks like. I still need a volenteer to send me a high-res scan of the early/mid decal that matches to cluster font! I will also be reproducing the original light panel for people who's panels have cracked and no longer display light properly (DMCH has no more NOS of this part so want to help the community out). At least that is the plan! Before any of that, I need to be sure this all stands the test of time and abuse. I don't want to offer anything that isn't the highest standard. All this info will be organized in the appropriate thread once complete.

[kajcienski]

By "early", do you mean low VIN? If so, I can try to grab a high-res (10 Megapixel) picture when I visit 559 in the shop next time. I'm aiming for this weekend or Tuesday. :wiggle:

I honestly have no idea what the HVAC design looks like on mine. I was more concerned with all the other fascinating stuff, and getting it running, to focus on the details. And now it's at DPI, so I can't run out and check real quick.

I mean the HVAC decal that matches the cluster font - this is what people have requested I model my black decal off of. I believe it is the early to mid decal...? I would need someone to just take off their light panel with the decal attached and do an actual scan. I need all the proportions exact this way and then recreate the graphics in the manor I need to do the decal. Thanks for the offer! If you have the correct decal and you can do a scan, that would be amazing!

[Shep]

I mean the HVAC decal that matches the cluster font - this is what people have requested I model my black decal off of. I believe it is the early to mid decal...? I would need someone to just take off their light panel with the decal attached and do an actual scan. I need all the proportions exact this way and then recreate the graphics in the manor I need to do the decal. Thanks for the offer! If you have the correct decal and you can do a scan, that would be amazing!No problem! I know DPI has a scanner, so I'll try to get them to make a scan of my HVAC panel while it's there. If nothing else, then to provide a blueprint for reproducing that panel in case something happens in the future. In the meantime, I'll take a high-res picture while I'm there so I don't leave empty-handed, both with and without the backlighting. Considering the very low miles, I doubt it's seen enough use to warrant a replacement (and after checking my complete service records, freon charging and heater core repair are the only HVAC-related repairs). But I'll still try to get a scan, even with the pictures :thumbup:


By the way, I have actually seen VIN 500 in person. I'm not too far from the Crawford Auto Museum, and I saw in another thread that you were looking to get the HVAC design for that one. I do see a problem with that approach though: I strongly suspect there hasn't been a battery in VIN 500 in years, perhaps decades. While this normally doesn't pose a problem, it also means that the "blackout" panel doesn't have a source of power to light it up. And I'm not sure if a scan would backlight it either. I do know that VIN 500 gets moved around every so often, as well as the three other stainless steel cars they have there (70's Lincoln, 70's Ford Thunderbird, and 40's Ford, all three of which were at this year's Classic Car Show at the Cleveland Auto Show). As far as I know though, they haven't done any work on it in a very long time. But who knows, maybe they'd be willing to work with you so they can reproduce it themselves. :wink:

[kajcienski]

No problem! I know DPI has a scanner, so I'll try to get them to make a scan of my HVAC panel while it's there. If nothing else, then to provide a blueprint for reproducing that panel in case something happens in the future. In the meantime, I'll take a high-res picture while I'm there so I don't leave empty-handed, both with and without the backlighting. Considering the very low miles, I doubt it's seen enough use to warrant a replacement (and after checking my complete service records, freon charging and heater core repair are the only HVAC-related repairs). But I'll still try to get a scan, even with the pictures :thumbup:


By the way, I have actually seen VIN 500 in person. I'm not too far from the Crawford Auto Museum, and I saw in another thread that you were looking to get the HVAC design for that one. I do see a problem with that approach though: I strongly suspect there hasn't been a battery in VIN 500 in years, perhaps decades. While this normally doesn't pose a problem, it also means that the "blackout" panel doesn't have a source of power to light it up. And I'm not sure if a scan would backlight it either. I do know that VIN 500 gets moved around every so often, as well as the three other stainless steel cars they have there (70's Lincoln, 70's Ford Thunderbird, and 40's Ford, all three of which were at this year's Classic Car Show at the Cleveland Auto Show). As far as I know though, they haven't done any work on it in a very long time. But who knows, maybe they'd be willing to work with you so they can reproduce it themselves. :wink:

Thanks so much! I have some scans that a fellow "forumer" generously sent and look great but additional scans always help. I'm going to try and see if VIN 500 has a battery or if they would be willing to help me out in the interest of the DeLorean community. It would be really amazing to see what it looks like when lit! Would you be willing to go and photograph it if I can arrange it? Any thoughts?

[kajcienski]

A shout out to Mike on this forum that got me this super high-res early (I believe from a 900's VIN) decal scan! My plan with this is to remove the "white outline" of the text and graphics and use this as the base for the blackout overlay design for people with stock setups. My best assumption is that after the original blackout decal didn't perform well, they took those same graphics and made them visible - while adding the white outline to make them really "pop" as well. At least that is what makes sense to me! I will keep the colors the same as this decal version except the rear defrost "square", that from what I can tell from VIN 500 pictures, was lit up yellow like the mid decal versions. Anyone have any additional thoughts before I dig into this? Any suggestions? I'm not sure how much interest there is in this since the backlight would need to be converted to one of my (or anyone who wants a do-it-yourself job) LED units to really display properly with bright and truly even light, but I think it would be super cool to get this into some cars! I believe this was a very new idea for the time and am sure that if the original backlight panel was designed better, they would have kept this design through production. The prototype blackout decal I made for my own setup in this thread looks really awesome when lit (also cool when "off") and am definitely going to make permanent in my own car.

My only question is if there was an even earlier version of this decal? This is from VIN 910 I think so is definitely early. But if there was an earlier one, I would be curious to know the difference - I would like to be as authentic (as possible) with trying to match the original blackout version on VIN 500.
11878

[dmc6960]

I'd be more interested to see what the VIN 500 decal actually looks like when lit up, then base the design off of that. There is no way to know for sure if this is what it would be.

[kajcienski]

I'd be more interested to see what the VIN 500 decal actually looks like when lit up, then base the design off of that. There is no way to know for sure if this is what it would be.

Very true, but I think all of the decal designs are valid to go blackout and the early/mid version is the overwhelming fan favorite (this would be a known recreation anyway). I am with you on trying to get an exact match on this one and will try very hard to convince the museum to light it up, but perhaps there is more of a reason why it did not go into production than just the backlight... Could be very interesting. The good thing is that the design can always be altered on my end so can please the purists (although the design will never be a truly exact re-creation) and the owners that want the "best of all designs" made blackout. A good example would be how large the Fan Fail and Rear Defrost letters are in early versions. It doesn't even fully light the text because it is so large. This was changed on the later decals. I think an improvement. I'd rather make a few changes like this so it looks better and performs well than keep it the way it is while everyone knowing it is a repro anyway. But all in all, I'm 100% with you and will do my best!

[Patrick C]

I'd be more interested to see what the VIN 500 decal actually looks like when lit up, then base the design off of that. There is no way to know for sure if this is what it would be.

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/articles/caranddriver/cdmay81c1x1.jpg

[kajcienski]

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/articles/caranddriver/cdmay81c1x1.jpg

Very interesting. Thanks for this pic! I wish the picture was better to see more detail - but it seems obvious that the decal was pretty terrible as far as performance due to poor backlighting. You can sorta make out the red part of the temp control where the bulb is (looks washed out in the bulb spot) and faint symbols on the mode and fan switches, but does not seem to display worth a darn. You can clearly see the graphics on the instrument cluster and would expect the same on the decal. I realize this is a scan of a printed picture, but can at least tell that much I think. Anyone else have any thoughts? I might be totally off on this but is my humble take on it. I'll be contacting the museum to see what can be done.

Note: Interesting seat texture!

[Shep]

Thanks so much! I have some scans that a fellow "forumer" generously sent and look great but additional scans always help. I'm going to try and see if VIN 500 has a battery or if they would be willing to help me out in the interest of the DeLorean community. It would be really amazing to see what it looks like when lit! Would you be willing to go and photograph it if I can arrange it? Any thoughts?I have a wedding I'm preparing for that will happen in two weeks (July 28th), and it's all hands on deck until then, but I can certainly arrange to go up there on a weekend once August rolls around! :thumbup:



My only question is if there was an even earlier version of this decal? This is from VIN 910 I think so is definitely early. But if there was an earlier one, I would be curious to know the difference - I would like to be as authentic (as possible) with trying to match the original blackout version on VIN 500.
11878I will say that decal doesn't look familiar as what I have, but maybe it's just me. I'll find out on Tuesday what 559 has (the rest of my family has off, including my almost-brother-in-law who's a DeLorean fanatic).

[kajcienski]

I have a wedding I'm preparing for that will happen in two weeks (July 28th), and it's all hands on deck until then, but I can certainly arrange to go up there on a weekend once August rolls around! :thumbup:


I will say that decal doesn't look familiar as what I have, but maybe it's just me. I'll find out on Tuesday what 559 has (the rest of my family has off, including my almost-brother-in-law who's a DeLorean fanatic).

Cool - I look forward to seeing what 559 has! I called the museum and am making progress. We will solve this mystery ;)

[dmc6960]

This thread goes through all of the different designs of the HVAC decal. If you look at my post you'll see that is the version which was installed on most cars, and seems to the favorite of most people. Everyone has their preference though. The reason I think mine is the best, is because it is almost the only type which actually matches the typeface of the instrument cluster. There is also a version of mine that lacks the "HEAT" and "COOL" lettering.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1640

[dmc6960]

And jumping strait to the good stuff, here are all 6 known decals, not in any particular order, except VIN 500.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1640-HVAC-panel-Ouline-vs-Solid-Lettering-VIN-cut-offs&p=20511&viewfull=1#post20511


I got confused, so I have sorted them into what I see as 6 different types, in what I assume is the chronological order, but am probably way off

Type 1: Original blacked out type

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5124&d=1314149167

Type 2: Solid Font without “heat” & “Cool” text, non-outlined heater colors, semi-blacked out warning lights

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5134&d=1316113069

Type 3: Solid Font with “heat” & “Cool” text, non-outlined heater colors, semi-blacked out warning lights

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5136&d=1316115497

Type 4: Solid Font with “Heat” & “Cool” text, outlined heater colors, blacked out warning lights (current DMC offering)

http://www.delorean.com/store/images/PRODUCT/large/108921.JPG

Type 5: Outline Font with “Heat” & “Cool” text, outlined heater colors, blacked out warning lights

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182759_10150396274125696_671145695_17217200_608707 2_n.jpg

Type 6: Outline Font with “Heat” & “Cool” text, outlined heater colors, highlighted warning lights

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5149&d=1316140900

[kajcienski]

And jumping strait to the good stuff, here are all 6 known decals, not in any particular order, except VIN 500.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1640-HVAC-panel-Ouline-vs-Solid-Lettering-VIN-cut-offs&p=20511&viewfull=1#post20511

Many thanks Jim! The type 2 looks the most pleasing to me (is that the fan favorite?) and would be the easiest to reproduce. I have a low-res scan of that one that I am using to re-create and then go blackout. If anyone can get a high-res scan of that to me, that would be amazing! Jim, would you be willing to get me a high-res scan of yours? What I will do is a blackout version of that one (possibly with some minor tweaks), and then an exact replica of the true blackout decal from VIN 500. Once that is done, if anyone wants a custom variation, it would be fairly easy to make it happen.

[jawn101]

Many thanks Jim! The type 2 looks the most pleasing to me (is that the fan favorite?) and would be the easiest to reproduce. I have a low-res scan of that one that I am using to re-create and then go blackout. If anyone can get a high-res scan of that to me, that would be amazing! Jim, would you be willing to get me a high-res scan of yours? What I will do is a blackout version of that one (possibly with some minor tweaks), and then an exact replica of the true blackout decal from VIN 500. Once that is done, if anyone wants a custom variation, it would be fairly easy to make it happen.

Matt - type 2 is a photo of my panel. In the thread that Jim linked to there was some talk of favorites. Universally it seemed like people preferred 2 and 3.

[kajcienski]

Matt - type 2 is a photo of my panel. In the thread that Jim linked to there was some talk of favorites. Universally it seemed like people preferred 2 and 3.

I hate to even ask, but would you be willing to take a high res scan of your "type 2" panel? I might be able to do without it, but would be very helpful. I'm working on it now to see how it goes.

[Shep]

I found some pictures of my HVAC panel! I can't believe I didn't remember this before, but I took a few pictures of my shifter knob since it's one of the areas that at some point needs repair. Visible plainly in the background is the HVAC panel! Here's a couple pictures (click for full size):

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/78099959/VIN%20559/Pictures/Problem%20areas/Resized/Problem19s.JPG (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/78099959/VIN%20559/Pictures/Problem%20areas/Problem19.JPG)https://dl.dropbox.com/u/78099959/VIN%20559/Pictures/HVAC%20Panel/Resized/HVAC1s.JPG (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/78099959/VIN%20559/Pictures/HVAC%20Panel/HVAC1.JPG)

From both angles, it's very obviously a textbook Type 3. So it looks like that mystery is solved! :biggrin: Now to get a closeup and a scan!

[kajcienski]

Phew... Okay, I'm pretty proud of this. I just finished an "exact" copy of the "type 2" HVAC Graphic Overlay. Pictured below is just the top layer of the decal - I got anxious and wanted to just post what I had so far! I had to recreate the font based on original scans (so it is a perfect match) as well as all graphics and enriched colors. I couldn't imagine anyone could tell this apart from the original unless they looked very close at the modern printing method. I think it actually looks better than the original. While I am waiting to get a photo of VIN 500's decal, I'm going to go ahead and make this into a "blackout" decal for fun. I would be curious to send a few of you some samples of this type 2 (like a half decal) and get your feedback. If I ever went ahead and made reproductions of this type 2 version, I would want to be sure everyone was happy with it. If you feel this should be split into a new thread, just let me know. More to come in a few days and will hopefully have this backlit by then.

Here are pictures of the new reproduction decal:
11949
11950
11951
11952
11953

NOTE: Attached is a compiled master file so you can see the pure text and graphics.

[jawn101]

Phew... Okay, I'm pretty proud of this. I just finished an "exact" copy of the "type 2" HVAC Graphic Overlay. Pictured below is just the top layer of the decal - I got anxious and wanted to just post what I had so far! I had to recreate the font based on original scans (so it is a perfect match) as well as all graphics and enriched colors. I couldn't imagine anyone could tell this apart from the original unless they looked very close at the modern printing method. I think it actually looks better than the original. While I am waiting to get a photo of VIN 500's decal, I'm going to go ahead and make this into a "blackout" decal for fun. I would be curious to send a few of you some samples of this type 2 (like a half decal) and get your feedback. If I ever went ahead and made reproductions of this type 2 version, I would want to be sure everyone was happy with it. If you feel this should be split into a new thread, just let me know. More to come in a few days and will hopefully have this backlit by then.

11949
11950
11951
11952
11953

Damn you and your ridiculous talent. Yes, I will remove the panel from my car and scan it at work for you on Monday... that is, if you still want/need it!!

[kajcienski]

Damn you and your ridiculous talent. Yes, I will remove the panel from my car and scan it at work for you on Monday... that is, if you still want/need it!!

Hi Jon! Thanks man. I think I am good with the scan now. Was going to email you and let you know. This was tough but turned out amazing!

[jawn101]

Hi Jon! Thanks man. I think I am good with the scan now. Was going to email you and let you know. This was tough but turned out amazing!

It sure did. I'd be glad to compare a sample to my original one if you want, you know how to find me. :)

[Shep]

Here are pictures of the new reproduction decalWait, you made that... yourself? Dayum, sure as hell looks OEM to me :wow:


I think I am good with the scan now.Does that mean you don't need mine either? If you don't, I'll probably do the scan once I get it back in mid-September. Not a problem.

Let us know how Crawford works out! I haven't been there in a while, and I sure wouldn't mind going again after the wedding. :smile:

[kajcienski]

Wait, you made that... yourself? Dayum, sure as hell looks OEM to me :wow:

Does that mean you don't need mine either? If you don't, I'll probably do the scan once I get it back in mid-September. Not a problem.

Let us know how Crawford works out! I haven't been there in a while, and I sure wouldn't mind going again after the wedding. :smile:

I think I should be good with the scan :) I'll keep you posted on Crawford and if we can get in to take backlit photographs.

[Shep]

I think I should be good with the scan :) I'll keep you posted on Crawford and if we can get in to take backlit photographs.Sounds good! I'll keep watching this thread for updates.

I would think someone there has a camera though, so perhaps my presence is not needed. I suspect a museum, of all places, has someone there that takes good pictures. Might want to ask them so as to speed things up a bit :wink:

[kajcienski]

I just got off the phone with the "curator" of the museum VIN 500 resides and looks like we are a "go" for photographing the decal when backlit. They are extremely nice. The car is on loan currently but will be returning in September. I will need someone in the Crawford Automotive Museum area who has a depthy background with DeLoreans (to keep my promise that an expert would be handling the visit) to take the photographs. I simply don't have the time to make a trip out there. If anyone is interested, please PM me and can set everything up in early September along with details.

[Shep]

PM sent. Not sure how much of an expert I am though (further explained in said PM), but I am available then.

One thing I forgot to mention: I'll probably have my parents tag along if I go. Might as well visit the rest of the museum while I'm there. :wink:

[kajcienski]

The main issue is really to have the confidence to deal with any hick-ups such as a bulb, fuse, removal of the light panel, etc... The museum is kind enough to let us do the photos correctly and just need to be sure without hesitation that the person is qualified and can handle anything that arises. There is only one decal like this, and decals can "chip" if not careful. The museum needs to know that the person doing this is confident and knowledgable - and have to respect them even allowing us to do this :) Perhaps two people can pair up and take a visit. I'll throw in a free blackout or type 2 repro decal to the one or two people that agree to visit and take photos!


PM sent. Not sure how much of an expert I am though (further explained in said PM), but I am available then.

One thing I forgot to mention: I'll probably have my parents tag along if I go. Might as well visit the rest of the museum while I'm there. :wink:

[Shep]

After discussing this via PM, I've agreed to spend a weekend practicing religiously on 559 once I get her back until I'm 100% comfortable with the process and any hiccups that might come along the way, then visit Crawford the next weekend (or some weekend after that). If anyone else wants to go, don't hesitate to ask! :smile: I'm certainly not against partnering up with a fellow D owner, or even an enthusiast photographer :wink:


Considering how nice, courteous, and professional Crawford is being with this entire process, I hope some day I can get the only two 500 series D's verified to be in Ohio together and perhaps photograph them side-by-side. Man what an awesome picture opportunity that would be! :wiggle:


EDIT: After re-reading this, I fear I may be giving a sort of "controlling" vibe with this post. That's certainly not intended, and I apologize if it comes across that way! :smile: If it doesn't, disregard this edit.

[Delorean Industries]

I should probably go and take care of this. Still needing a professional to take care of this?

[kajcienski]

Hi Josh - That would be really great and thank you for offering. EMDF here on the forum is strong in photography so perhaps we can find a date you both can go together. I think the museum people would feel at ease with you there. You might want to think of anything else you would to check out on the car while you are at it. This whole thing would go down in late September or October when the car is back from loan. I'll contact you more towards then. Thanks!




I should probably go and take care of this. Still needing a professional to take care of this?

[Shep]

I should probably go and take care of this. Still needing a professional to take care of this?I knew I was forgetting something. How good are you at photography? I'd feel kind of tacky (for lack of a better term) bringing my family to Crawford when all I'd do is take pictures. Just seems a little odd to me, one expert doing all the work himself, and an amateur with a camera bringing his entourage.

Not sure how much I'm at liberty to say, but would that other D owner you told me about who recently visited Europe be able to help out with that? Perhaps their services would be of use here. I'm thinking I should sit this one out, no harm no foul. :wink: Besides, you can pick any arbitrary weekday to visit as can be arranged. I'd need to stick to weekends.