Passing california smog requirements

[gasflaphoodfan95]

Will an EFI converted delorean pass california smog laws??

[dmc6960]

Thats a complicated question. So here's a moderately complicated answer...

Yes, any EFI system should be capable of allowing the car to pass an emissions test if it is properly tuned, running closed-loop, and the CATs are in place.

With that said, there are lots of ways it could not pass. Megasquirt for example, is technically NOT legal for an emissions-required vehicle. A major reason being is that the user can modify the settings at any time. This way they can load up an emissions-passing tune and go pass the test, then re-load their non-passing tune. A technical reason is that your modifying the original emissions equipment. Despite the fact that its an upgrade to what was originally there, its still an illegal modification.

There are professionally sold EFI systems out there which may or may not fall under this restriction, I'm unfamiliar with anything other than Megasquirt.

In the end, if you have someone at the testing center just looking at the numbers and a nice clean install on your engine, you'll be fine if your properly tuned. It may be difficult to get all aspects tuned properly though without a professional tuner with an exhaust analyzer. Wideband O2 sensors commonly used by the end-user for tuning their system doesn't check for things like NOx emissions.

[jawn101]

Will an EFI converted delorean pass california smog laws??

Probably not.

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_AutoRepair/Engine_change_guidelines.html

Edit: Jim beat me to the long answer, but the short one is this: Engine modifications are pretty much not allowed. Check the link above. The visual inspection is what you will fail, not the emissions themselves.

[Dangermouse]

So, and I hate to mention it even, if you carb your car will it fail under the above "modification" rules?

[jawn101]

So, and I hate to mention it even, if you carb your car will it fail under the above "modification" rules?

From what I understand, the following quote from the ARB says it all:

"No internal or external engine modifications (cams, pistons, intakes, etc.) may be performed unless the parts are ARB–exempted or EPA–certified for use in the installed engine. Use the database on this site to search for aftermarket parts covered by ARB Executive Orders."

I checked the database. ARB provides executive orders for NO aftermarket parts for the DeLorean engine. So just because your Holley or Megasquirt is certified in another engine doesn't mean you can slap it on this one and call it good, even if your tailpipe is shooting rainbows and sunshine.

But if you remove the B28F and drop in an already-EFI Premier 3.0, or a suitable carb-ed engine, those would theoretically be OK as long as they aren't modified, all emissions controls are intact, and the original electronics (if originally part of the design) for diagnostics are present and fully functional.

[Spittybug]

I've had no problem with the inspection (visual) in Texas, but then again, we're Texas! I'm exempt from smog testing, but like other states, they are supposed to check to ensure that nothing has been modified. Mine is really obvious; transparent engine cover showing an LT1 throttle body, custom aluminum adapter, K&N air filter, etc... I think so much boils down to the inspector. Find the kid that is wowed by the car and start up the conversation.... tell him the history.... he'll never know that the MS or the Carb aren't stock. If he does, drive away.

The MS unit with the stock air intake and cleaner with the addition of fuel rails is a kind of "stealth" EFI setup, especially if you don't remove the WUR and hoses. See the EFI section of these forums.

[jawn101]

I won't say it's impossible to find a tester here who will be more "lenient", but the system is set up to avoid them. Before they even do the visual, you sign the agreement for testing. If they do the visual and decide they don't like what they see, you will probably still be on the hook for an "aborted" test - which will also show up on the car's publicly accessible smog history and (usually) costs $25 by itself.

Plus the entire system is computerized and every test performed can be traced back to the specific individual who performed it. It's not just a hole-punched sticker you put on your windshield (it was when I lived in New York) - so very few are willing to risk their shop to fudge things. Most smog stations do nothing *but* smog tests so they have nothing to fall back on if the state pulls their license.

I was actually turned away from the smog station I normally use in my town, because the tech wasn't familiar with the DeLorean engine and didn't know what to look for. So he just said nope, I won't do your check. Find someone else.

I don't defend this whole nightmare, BTW. I am very environmentally conscious personally but I feel like this system is overly restrictive and overcomplicated. Should we do emissions testing? Yes! Should it matter what means we use to reach the end? Nope. If what's coming out the tailpipe is clean, why does it make any difference how it got there?

[TTait]

Probably not.

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_AutoRepair/Engine_change_guidelines.html

Edit: Jim beat me to the long answer, but the short one is this: Engine modifications are pretty much not allowed. Check the link above. The visual inspection is what you will fail, not the emissions themselves.

I've had several inspectors who have barely looked at the engine, and not known what they were looking for anyway - most of the time they ask me what to enter into the computer (smog pump, etc.) Depends on who you get...

In the SF valley I can recommend Joes Smog Check

http://www.joessmogcheck.com/DiscountCouponsPrint32Total.html

NOT because he bends rules - not saying that at all - he is fast, cheap, and will work with you to figure out what is wrong if you don't pass...

[gasflaphoodfan95]

I may not EFI the DeLorean if it cannot be smogged leagaly.
I do not want to put all the effort. And money in and have it be an illegal car. however I am curious if a pre-EFI 3.0L PRV swapped into the Delorean can pass smog leagaly.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

[TTait]

I'd call a local smog inspector and just ask. If they say its cool, go see them in person and talk it through, build a little relationship with them so they know and remember you. Take your daily driver there for its next smog check, etc.

[jawn101]

If you check the link I posted above, it relates specifically to engine swapped vehicles. As long as the original diagnostics and emissions control systems are left intact and 100% functional on the new motor, it sounds like it would be passable.... at least that's how I'm reading the info.

Edit: There is also a lot of caveat wording there, relating to ensuring the engine is emissions certified to the same year as the original vehicle, etc. It is a very fine line you walk in CA. Be informed before making any decisions.

[Dangermouse]

So does it follow that DMCH can't sell a Stage III in CA, with it's non-original exhaust?

Does DMCCA sell these and how do they smog them?

[elfking]

Is the PRE EFI 3.0 engine same year or newer then the engine in the car ? If it is... then you might be alright. I have done a few swaps ( not in DeLoreans) into Jeeps and RX7s. as long as the engine comes from the same weight class, that's another thing but the 3.0 comes out of a passenger car that was sold in the US right ?

All they ever cared about for me was that the same year or newer engine was put in. ( and that it came sold in a car sold in the usa ) Any proof of what the engine came out of is good to have. As well as they like to be a stickler sometimes on the exact parts out of the doner car... For instance I put a ford V8 in a Jeep and they wanted the ford cat on there... ( which is crap since alot of them are huge) but I guess that one may be up to the tech.

Putting your own EFI is a no go unless it has a CARB sticker to go along with it. Which something like a howell FI kits have ( they basically take a Chevy throttle body injection and adapt it for a carbed jeep ) which you have to add in 02, computer, check engine light, and a few other goodies they supply but the most important part is that CARB sticker...

When I have put a newer RX7 twin turbo engine into an older model they checked for all newer OBD, PRE cats and cats, check engine, air pump , air box ( which was kind of a pain). When done they give you a sticker in your engine bay that a smog shop can scan similar to any newer car which has the barcode in the door.

If my DeLoreans engine decides to let go at some point I will be trying to swap the engine out for something with EFI and getting it ref'ed as well. Having the ref sticker makes it easier then playing the 'smog game' in this lovely state of CA.

[Dangermouse]

The 3.0 comes out of an Eagle Premier from the late 80s, early 90s

The Stage III adds a supercharger which I think comes under the heading of "modifying ".

[elfking]

The 3.0 comes out of an Eagle Premier from the late 80s, early 90s

The Stage III adds a supercharger which I think comes under the heading of "modifying ".

Ah then the 3.0 might be very-doable did they come with Turbo's as I see people with the 3.0's more commonly having them?

I would also say that without a CARB sticker to go along with that Supercharger then yes a Stage III would be out of the being able to get it to pass without very a friendly tech. Though I do have to say the few places I took my DeLorean to get it smogged they really didn't know what they were looking at.... but you slap a shiny supercharger on there and they might be a bit more picky. Mine was stock so there was nothing sticking out...

I was waiting for my smog to come back around, then maybe install the Island Turbo kit I got from Josh over at DPI and see what happens. :evil3:
Has no sticker of course and playing with fire but we will see.. or maybe ill just get one of those 3.0 engines and swap it over who knows..

[Dangermouse]

The 3.0 is just EFI, no boost.

[Bitsyncmaster]

If they are checking tail pipe emissions, why the hell are they checking the idle timing?

Maryland just changed there emissions. If your car is 1995 (I think that's the year) or newer, they just read the ODB and do a visual check on the engine and CAT. If it's older you still need to put is on the dyno and read the tail pipe.

My area there is no emission testing on any car. Guess our population is just to small to have a test station down here.

[gasflaphoodfan95]

[QUOTE=elfking;71716]Is the PRE EFI 3.0 engine same year or newer then the engine in the car ?


Yes it would be from a 1991/92 eagle premier or something similar which was sold in the us.

[jawn101]

If they are checking tail pipe emissions, why the hell are they checking the idle timing?

Maryland just changed there emissions. If your car is 1995 (I think that's the year) or newer, they just read the ODB and do a visual check on the engine and CAT. If it's older you still need to put is on the dyno and read the tail pipe.

My area there is no emission testing on any car. Guess our population is just to small to have a test station down here.

Dave:

*sigh*

They check all kinds of things. That's but one of them. CA is a tough place for car enthusiasts to live, unless you're into pre-1975 stuff. My next toy will be some kind of late 60's or early 70's Brit roadster.

[Jeff K]

Ahh - my son posted this! I appreciate his research.

We talked about doing that to one of the cars, I'm trying to get a definitive answer. I'd be real mad id a county clerk said ok.. but was actually incorrect. That happened a few times with me and permits upgrading my home. Not fun!

[deloreanz]

I would not be afraid of running an Eagle 3.0L in the DeLorean and passing smog. As long as its tuned to pass the sniff test and the timing is stock, then you'd be okay. Most people doing the check will have no idea what to look for and the visual inspection just makes sure everything looks stock and no wires or tubing is hanging off. If you want to do a turbo setup you can just keep your old exhaust parts and put those on for the smog test. They're not going to rip open your car to find the Megasquirt ECU. There's a possibility you'll get someone who will give you a hard time but for the most part if everything looks and performs as expected, you pass. There are also places that guarantee passing but you won't find that advertised.

I got my stock DeLorean smogged this past year and the drone at the test-only center tried to fail me because of the atmosphere port tube on the fuel pressure regulator. He checked timing, emissions at idle and at certain rpm under load, and did the gas tank vapor test. I plan on putting in a turbo 3.0L with megasquirt and still being able to smog it.