The Restoration of VIN 4363

[Morpheus]

After 4 long years I have once again succumbed to the DMC ownership virus. :approve:

As some of you are aware, I have been "sort of" looking for another D for a few months now. After seeing a bit of a resurgence in Ebay cars lately, I started putting feelers out.

Tony @ DMCFL knew about my search, and one day called me about this car he just took in trade... a 16K mile, grey interior 5-speed that needed a total restoration.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/01%20Pre%20Purchase/DSC02341-1.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/01%20Pre%20Purchase/DSC02345.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/01%20Pre%20Purchase/DSC02339-1.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/01%20Pre%20Purchase/DSC02352.jpg

After seeing the pics he sent, I was of course intrigued. For being such a low mileage car, it had to be sitting for a good long while. No matter, I told myself. After all, I was looking for another project car and this one looked like a good candidate.

A couple of weeks later, we headed down to Bonita Springs to pick up my new obsession. Always up for an adventure, and not wanting to miss out on such a momentous occasion, Derek and Mike joined Laura and I for the big day. Little did they know at the time, it would literally be an all day affair. You see, instead of doing the smart thing and trailering this car from the get go, we decided to roll the dice and drive this project car home. Yes, you read that right. Attempt to drive a car that I know nothing about 200 miles and arrive home in one piece.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/02%20The%20Voyage%20Home/14839737.jpg

Mike, Derek, and I each took turns driving the car around Tony's shop. It didn't run well, but we attributed that to the possible bad gas in the tank. We figured if we could put in a fresh tank of good gas it would be fine. Irony of all ironies - the AC was blowing ICE cold.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/02%20The%20Voyage%20Home/bbd6b7a5.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/02%20The%20Voyage%20Home/IMG_1657.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/02%20The%20Voyage%20Home/IMG_1658.jpg

After a stop @ Taco Bell for some lunch, we hit the road. The car actually started running a bit better with the new gas, so things were looking up.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/02%20The%20Voyage%20Home/IMG_1660.jpg

Continued below....

[Chris Burns]

Great looking Delorean Morpheus! Good luck with it.:thumbup2:

[DeLorean03]

AWESOME :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome back Brandon to Hell (: ....

You know you're glad you got another one!

[vwdmc16]

that needs a full resto? looks like it needs a bit of cleaning is all


spectacular oil pressure too!

keep us updated when you start tearing her down yeah?

[Morpheus]

Things were going surprisingly well, which means fate was just waiting for the right moment to make things interesting... and it was all captured in glorious HD for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMVMF1-91N4

We pulled over, a mere 100 feet from the end of the on ramp to I-75, to find out why I suddenly lost power. We looked at the fuel pump, and it was submerged in all that new gas we just pumped into the tank. Sigh. About this time, a Road Ranger pulls up to help. By help, I mean stand there with a dumbfounded look on his face and ask if this car is the 1989 model. We asked if he had any zip ties or pipe clamps so we could tighten the boot, but he was pretty much useless.

We soaked up the excess gas with some towels, and started on again. This cycle happened about 3 more times before we reached the next exit. Luckily enough, we found a bank drive-thru (shady spot) to park the car in whilst we attempted repair. At this point, our good friend Robert was getting off work (in Sarasota, a good hour or more away), and was checking in to see how we were doing. At that moment I decided that trailering the car home was the only way to go at this point. Luckily, Robert was kind enough to get a trailer @ U-Haul and drive down to get us. All we could do is sit and wait...

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/02%20The%20Voyage%20Home/IMG_1667.jpg

FINALLY, we were making forward progress. At this point it was getting quite late, and we needed to stop for dinner. We found a great little BBQ joint in the lovely town of Arcadia, FL.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/02%20The%20Voyage%20Home/IMG_1668.jpg

We got home around 11:00pm, exhausted after our all-day adventure.

I learned a lot on this trip, but most of all I learned that you should never attempt to drive a car in unknown condition 200 miles no matter how large your testicles are or how low they hang.

Thanks:
To Derek, for accompanying me and attempting to fix the fuel issue.
To Mike, for the mushroom stamp, and turning around after getting on Alligator Alley to assist and wait with us for a while.
To Tony, for coming in on a Saturday to show us around the new shop and get this done.
To Robert, for rescuing us and driving out of your way to get my car home.
and most of all,
To Laura, for making the trip down to get our new baby after working a 12 hour shift the night before. Luv U!

I almost forgot the most poignant observation about this whole experience:

I purchased this car EXACTLY 4 years to the day after I sold my first D. How's that for a coincidence? :D

[Morpheus]

...and now you will see some reasons why this is going to be a full restore. I removed the cover panels in the trunk, and suddenly I saw one of many reasons that I now hate the previous owner of this car.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/7ba5305d.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/0e382035.jpg

This appears to be some sort of custom fan control relay. The larger controller appears to be a temp sensor, since there is a lead running into the coolant pipe from it.

There is some ridiculous custom wiring throughout this entire car, some of it in the engine bay, some of it in the relay compartment, and some of it even under the dash.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1724.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1723.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1722.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/0663a353.jpg

These pictures don't really do it all justice. Suffice it to say, i am going to replace pretty much the entire wiring harness throughout the car.

The first thing I decided to tackle was the fuel system. Derek was nice enough to come over last weekend and we tore into the fuel tank. First, we tested the injectors and found that all 3 on the driver's side weren't shooting at all... which explains why I had no power on the road. The other 3 weren't much better.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1690.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1693.jpg

Here's a gratuitous ass shot:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1692.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1691.jpg

In addition to cleaning out the tank, we also adjusted the torsion bars since they were wound up pretty tight.

All in all, a productive day.

[opethmike]

Wow, that is one hacked up wiring system! It will be, um, 'interesting' to see what other DPO f-ups you find.

[Morpheus]

The pics don't even do it justice. There are wires in the engine bay that are just hanging there, not going to anything. Some of which created some nice sparks when I went digging around in there.

You can see a big bundle of red wires on top of the air horns in one of the pics above.

[dvonk]

good god. damn you, PO! :angry:

congrats on owning a D again though, im totally jealous! and now you have an interesting story to go with it, too. :biggrin: keep us updated on the progress!

[DisneyDJ]

Good for you man... I've been thinking the same thing lately... guess you just beat me to it. Let me know if you need any help with anything.

[Mike C.]

Sigh, looking back now, you can just smile about that day and say it was 'fun'... :D

Oh, don't forget to email me the vids :hihi2:


Good for you man... I've been thinking the same thing lately... guess you just beat me to it. Let me know if you need any help with anything.


Big E! How you doing?!? Man, if you return to D- land too, FL will be jumping with owners again!

[DMage]

Looking forward to getting the fuel system back in and seeing if we can get it up and running before pulling everything apart again! :)

[Cory W]

This appears to be some sort of custom fan control relay. The larger controller appears to be a temp sensor, since there is a lead running into the coolant pipe from it.

That looks similar to the new fan control switch Toby and Misty sell trough DPNW. I bought one earlier this season after going through 3 otterstats in 3 years (I blame the wildly varying temperatures in this climate) It's not the same unit (or was modified from original) with a lead that long.....stock is maybe a bit longer than a foot. Of course, their unit is meant to be mounted in the engine compartment...

Is there a control knob on the side we can't see? On the DPNW part you can adjust what temperature you want the fans to come on.

[Bitsyncmaster]

With that wiring mess, I would consider buying a new harness from DMCH. You will never know how many things the PO did.

I was lucky on my drive home when I bought my car but the PO had been driving it once a month. But I knew nothing about the car on that 250 mile drive home.

[Morpheus]

Looking forward to getting the fuel system back in and seeing if we can get it up and running before pulling everything apart again! :)

At this rate, the fuel system won't be going back in any time soon. I need a new cover plate for the tank first.



Is there a control knob on the side we can't see? On the DPNW part you can adjust what temperature you want the fans to come on.

Yeah, there's an adjustment knob on the other side. From the looks of the engine bay, the PO tried to rig up an alternative solution to fan control before settling on this one.


With that wiring mess, I would consider buying a new harness from DMCH. You will never know how many things the PO did.


That's exactly what I am going to do. It's not worth the many hours it will take me to trace down every circuit and fix whatever was done. The main harness alone is $600, so I will be doing that part slowly.

[Morpheus]

spectacular oil pressure too!


Check out the vid I posted for an even more spectacular view of the oil pressure gauge!

[Morpheus]

Good for you man... I've been thinking the same thing lately... guess you just beat me to it. Let me know if you need any help with anything.

Oh, this is going to be a work in progress for a long time. I'm getting ready to pull the motor and tranny now. If you get a hankering for some DMC action, come on over!

[jmrydholm]

Morpheus, that is great! I'm still struggling with 10715, but I love her. (In a car-like way.) I LOL'ed at the gratuitous ass shot haha, that was great :lol: Happy for ya!

[dvonk]

If you get a hankering for some DMC action, come on over!

man, if i lived closer i would be elbows-deep already! im itching to get to second base with a DeLorean! :lol:

[dvonk]

...ok, ill admit it; i havent even been to first base with a D yet. :frown:

[Mike C.]

...ok, ill admit it; i havent even been to first base with a D yet. :frown:

Im pretty sure mine gave me the clap...

[dvonk]

:hysterical:

[DeLorean937]

Haha!! Happy to do it. I'll try making it up around the 4th to see you guys, if not, i'm coming up for an awesome day in Universal/Orlando soon and if you need any help man, just ask. And what an AWESOME JOB SO FAR!!

[Ozzie]

Just got back from Orlando (dropping off second son at UCF), so just saw this thread.

Congrats, Brandon.
The car looks in great shape, I'm sure you'll get her running in tip top shape.

[Morpheus]

Thanks for the kudos, everyone!

Since it was rather cool last night, I decided it was a good time to finish removing the coolant pipes. Luckily for me, they don't appear to be pitted, they just look ugly.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/d7ba1a6e.jpg

In case anyone wanted to see the mess we found in the fuel tank:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/c3392d92.jpg

[DeLorean937]

That's nasty.:hippo:

[SamHill]

without labeling or doing a pipe at a time, i found it hard to remember which end went which way. Particularly the pipe that bends up into the engine to the coolant tank. You probably have a better memory than I.

[Morpheus]

It's not too hard to figure out... I had to do it on my first D.

[Evildeli]

Been offline since the end of last week, but can I say I'm surprised? Well, just a little, but congrats Brandon! Glad you got a D again. Let me know if I can help, or lend an extra hand, or something.

[Morpheus]

Im pretty sure mine gave me the clap...

Nope, that was Robert. :rofl:

[Morpheus]

Been offline since the end of last week, but can I say I'm surprised? Well, just a little, but congrats Brandon! Glad you got a D again. Let me know if I can help, or lend an extra hand, or something.

Oh, don't worry... I'll be having a body/frame separation party sometime soon and you'll certainly be invited!

[Morpheus]

I wanted to update the thread with some more pictures of the work done so far...

Here are some shots taken with the fuel tank and cover plate removed. You can see that the undercoating has been somehow sprayed inside this area. I never knew that the fuel tank and cover plate was removed to undercoat the frame, perhaps this is a special case.

Straight on:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1694.jpg

The right side, where the fuel lines meet the frame:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1695.jpg

Down the center of the frame:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1697.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1696.jpg

Left side of fuel tank area, showing a rusty brake booster:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1698.jpg

The fuel accumulator, hanging carelessly by it's rotting fuel hoses rather than a proper bracket.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1704.jpg

The area where the fuel filter should be, but isn't. Notice how the hard fuel line is bent away from where it normally lines up with the bracket mount holes. PO strikes again.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1705.jpg

Right tranny mount:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1707.jpg

...and the left side. I'm not sure what to say about it.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1708.jpg

Rusty engine cradle:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1711.jpg

Right TAB:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1712.jpg

Left TAB:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1713.jpg

Bent left side LCA:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1720.jpg

New-ish looking clutch master and PLASTIC line. WTF would you replace the CM and keep the plastic line?
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1718.jpg

Bent right side LCA:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1715.jpg

Hacked up wiring harness:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1700.jpg

[Morpheus]

Work done in preparation for body separation:

Most coolant drained, must remove cat to access block drain on left side.
Oil drained
Gear Oil drained

Not necessary for body separation, but done anyway:
Fuel tank & cover plate removed
Coolant pipes removed

To do for body removal:
Disconnect brake lines/clutch line at MC
Disconnect speedo cable
Disconnect fuel line @ filter
Disconnect battery cables from frame
Disconnect engine harnesses from body
Disconnect body bolts

What else am I missing?

[sean]

Did you disconnect/remove the heater hoses, from the picture it looks like they are still connected? They are up near the fuel pump. Also the emergency brake cables need to be disconnected. The A/C Accumulator is attached to the body and plumbing for it attaches to the frame and the condenser, so a disconnect needs to be made around there too. Dont forget the steering linkage too. Im sure Im forgetting something but that is what comes to mind.

[opethmike]

That fuel accumulator is SCARY! And maybe I missed it, but is there even a fuel filter on the car?!

[Chris Burns]

I bet you're ready to choke the PO.

[Evildeli]

What are your plans for the frame? Sand, por-15 paint back to original greyish or touch up and keep black? I'd also be concerned with that brake booster (actually the brake master). It still looks wet from one pic.

[Morpheus]

That fuel accumulator is SCARY! And maybe I missed it, but is there even a fuel filter on the car?!

Yes, there is. I really have no clue as to why the PO did this, but...

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1722.jpg

there it is, wedged behind the motor against the firewall, and not secured to anything.

Speaking of PO gripes, consider these pics:
I had to pull these out of the way because they were interfering with the throttle linkage.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1723.jpg

Here's a bunch that are just dangling in the engine bay:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/03%20First%20Inspection/IMG_1724.jpg

Now you know why I have to completely replace the wiring in this car.

[Morpheus]

I bet you're ready to choke the PO.

Seriously, if I ever got a chance to meet him, I would have to restrain myself. Most of all, I just want to ask him "Why?"


What are your plans for the frame? Sand, por-15 paint back to original greyish or touch up and keep black? I'd also be concerned with that brake booster (actually the brake master). It still looks wet from one pic.

Frame-off restoration. I'm taking everything off the frame and having it blasted and powdercoated. There are way too many spots on this frame that are suspect, and I feel like the peace of mind is worth it.

[opethmike]

Your car makes my head hurt - holy smokes! I wish you the best of luck, this is going to be a tricky endeavor!

[Beachdrifter]

Wow Brandon, welcome back to DMC ownership.

Looks like quite an "exploration" with many discoveries.

Thanks for documenting this. I like the pictures. The previous owner of my car did a lot of what you are doing before I received my car, so I never got the experience to take a "project" and work up (mainly have just done typical repairs stemming from parts that normally get worn out anyways).

But I am very interested in seeing you work the engine removal and or transmission removal process. That aspect of mechanics has always intrigued me since I have never attempted that myself. When do you plan to tackle that?

Great work,

--Randy

[Morpheus]

When do you plan to tackle that?


Thanks, Randy!

I plan on getting started on that soon, actually. Yesterday, Derek came over and we finished the rest of the prep work for the separation. Now, all I can think about is lifting the body off and getting started on that frame.

I'm still working on the particulars and logistics, but I suspect that this will be done by the end of the month. Anyone interested in helping out?

[Evildeli]

I've always wanted to see a frame off. Please count me in.

[TheDon]

when is this frame off.. I'll help!

Also, do you have an original spare for this thing? I just so happen to still have mine from 4875.

[Morpheus]

I do not have an original spare... Interested in selling? It's not a priority right now, but I suppose I will need it eventually.

I'm working out the details on the frame separation now, I hope to have everything in place soon. I need to buy lots of concrete blocks and some pieces of lumber for this project.

[TheDon]

I was going to turn it into a weird end table for my dream garage one day but its just taking up space. Make me an offer I cannot refuse and I'll deliver it when the frame off happens.

how many blocks do you think you need? I'd bring a few to help out. I also have some engine gaskets for the PRV I can bring along that I have no use for.

[Morpheus]

As I'm currently unemployed, I can give you $25 for it.

I'm trying to get my ducks in a row to do this on Saturday, but it depends on me spending more $$ on supplies and blocks. Looks like I will need quite a few of them.

[Morpheus]

Ok, it looks like this Saturday, July 30, 2011 I will be separating the body and frame of VIN 6393.

Anyone who would like to show up to assist is welcome. For those of you who haven't been to my place, the address is:

2417 Formax Dr.
Orlando, FL 32828

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2417+formax+dr+orlando&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&gl=us&z=16

I'm not sure how long it will take, but we will probably get started around 9:00 AM. Please RSVP if you will be able to make it out.

I'm posting this info in the DCF forum as well.

[sean]

Ok, it looks like this Saturday, July 30, 2011 I will be separating the body and frame of VIN 6393.

Best of luck! Depending on prep you guys should knock it out pretty quickly.

[Morpheus]

All that's left to do is the actual separation... Derek and I disconnected everything already in preparation for the job.

The bitch of it will be rolling out the frame from one side of the garage to the other without any brakes on it and not letting it roll completely down my driveway.

[sean]

All that's left to do is the actual separation... Derek and I disconnected everything already in preparation for the job.

The bitch of it will be rolling out the frame from one side of the garage to the other without any brakes on it and not letting it roll completely down my driveway.

So long as you don't let it gain momentum you should be fine. Sounds like you guys could be done in a few hours.

[TheDon]

Ok, it looks like this Saturday, July 30, 2011 I will be separating the body and frame of VIN 6393.

Anyone who would like to show up to assist is welcome. For those of you who haven't been to my place, the address is:

2417 Formax Dr.
Orlando, FL 32828

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2417+formax+dr+orlando&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&gl=us&z=16



I'm not sure how long it will take, but we will probably get started around 9:00 AM. Please RSVP if you will be able to make it out.

I'm posting this info in the DCF forum as well.



oh man.. you're 50 miles away from me.. Let me see what time I go into work and I will respond tomorrow

[Morpheus]

^Not a problem... Just let me know by Friday if possible.

So far, only Derek & John C. Are in.

[Morpheus]

Pictures and a writeup are posted in the DCF thread:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?948-Body-Frame-Separation-Party!-SAT-7-30-11&p=10683#post10683 (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?948-Body-Frame-Separation-Party%21-SAT-7-30-11&p=10683#post10683)

[Morpheus]

I figured I would keep my restoration progress updated in this thread rather than make another one....

Well, boys and girls... the frame is now stripped of all parts and is ready to be de-epoxied. There's just one problem: No shop in my area is equipped to remove the epoxy.

After lots of searching and calls for assistance, (thanks Dave Swingle!) I have located a facility about 100 miles away from me that uses a heated alkaline, non-acid process that essentially removes paint, undercoating, rust, and hopefully epoxy. Here's hoping that they are able to tackle this job for me so I can get this frame finished.

Thank you to Derek G. for assisting with the frame dis-assembly and to Travis G. for all the helpful pointers thus far and those that are surely upcoming.

Some pics of the frame dis-assembly:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/a5f35f65.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/b07b0b54.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/505178d3.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/fcc0d0cc.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/6c480890.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/c47014f2.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/af4f2218.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/975894be.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/6d7508be.jpg

[Farrar]

Brake fluid is supposedly really good at dissolving the epoxy off of our frames. Why not try that mixed with a little acetone? Would smell awful but might do the trick.

[Morpheus]

Not only would that be extremely messy, it would literally take me forever to do. There's also no way for me to get into all the inner recesses. I'm convinced that if this process will work it's the best route.

Nothing is ever easy with these cars...

[sdg3205]

I'm curious,

how much does the frame alone weigh?

[sean]

Nice work, frame doesn't look that bad either.

[Morpheus]

I haven't weighed it, but 2 reasonably able people can lift a naked frame without too much trouble.

[Michael]

Kudos for doing a proper restoration!

[Morpheus]

Today, I embarked on a 200 mile round trip journey to get this frame in order. The first step was to get the epoxy and undercoating removed via a non-acid chemical process.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/bfeea196.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/58068ea2.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/0ed8cbb9.jpg

I was given an estimate of 2 weeks for the chemical dip process to be done, apparently there are a few projects ahead of me in line.

Stay tuned for more, including some videos!

[dvonk]

nice, if you can get pictures of it stripped, that would be interesting!

[Farrar]

I sure wish my frame looked that good! LOL

Looking forward to seeing the end result. :)

[Morpheus]

I sure wish my frame looked that good!

Things aren't always what they seem when you get up close:

This is the innards of the engine cradle:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/e211233a.jpg

A nasty weld/bondo job up front:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/04%20Body%20and%20Frame%20Separation/IMG_1732.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/04%20Body%20and%20Frame%20Separation/IMG_1729.jpg

...and that's just what I can see thus far. After all the epoxy and undercoat is removed there might be much more.

[Morpheus]

While waiting for my frame to be finished, and finding myself with actual space to maneuver in my garage, I decided to start tearing into my engine.

The first thing I realized while pulling this apart is the air horns were held in with 4 different bolts, and 2 of them were larger than stock. Not only that, but my intake mounting holes all had heli-coils in them. This of course means that somehow the PO managed to strip out several of the holes in the block and intake. I'm afraid of what else I'm going to find.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/5bc8ce07.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/8c09f9be.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/bfe1cb16.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/b270dd4a.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/530133f1.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/84a4892e.jpg

I removed the headers and discovered something neat:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/010de4e8.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/37202436.jpg

It looks as if one of my freeze plugs has been rotting for a while and possibly leaking. By this point, I'm starting to assume that I will just have to end up replacing the heads.

Surprisingly, once the valve covers are removed it looks damn clean.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/9df07e6e.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/50d138ed.jpg

I noticed a weird looking weld in the right side:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/f14fb700.jpg

Anyone know if that's a repair?

Lucky for me, the "Y" pipe bolts came out just fine. The valley is full of debris, but at least I don't have to do any bolt extractions.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/e1d127d7.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/99406f9c.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/55ce2c37.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/d6fa4ee1.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/ba2decc7.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/2fea9f6c.jpg

[jawn101]

Wow, those rockers are gorgeous. Has there ever been oil in this motor??? :)

[steve6864]

200 miles in an unknown "D"? Childsplay.I picked mine up in a parking garage in Manhatten.700 miles from home.Flew to Newark,spent the night in a flee bag hotel by the airport.Ordered a pizza from Sopranos(real name of the pizzeria) and woke the next morning to take the train into NYC.WALKED 41 blocks to the bowery district of Manhatten and under a tarp was my car.Handed over 10,000 and took off onto the streets of one of the busiest traffic areas in the US.Was given the following instructions:if you can get it to a highway it will run a little better.Oh yeah,to get it into reverse you go over and DOWN.That`s another story.Brake fluid was only going to one corner(right front),3 mismatched tires in both brand and size,a constant vibration at anything slightly over 35 mph and headliners drooping so low as to negate visibilty to all but the drivers side mirror.Lambda light came on 1 hour into trip.36 hours later home safe and sound.By myself.That was 6 years ago this month.Best decision(carwise) I ever made.200 miles with friends and support?...Hah.6864.Steve.

[DMage]

200 miles in an unknown "D"? Childsplay.I picked mine up in a parking garage in Manhatten.700 miles from home.Flew to Newark,spent the night in a flee bag hotel by the airport.Ordered a pizza from Sopranos(real name of the pizzeria) and woke the next morning to take the train into NYC.WALKED 41 blocks to the bowery district of Manhatten and under a tarp was my car.Handed over 10,000 and took off onto the streets of one of the busiest traffic areas in the US.Was given the following instructions:if you can get it to a highway it will run a little better.Oh yeah,to get it into reverse you go over and DOWN.That`s another story.Brake fluid was only going to one corner(right front),3 mismatched tires in both brand and size,a constant vibration at anything slightly over 35 mph and headliners drooping so low as to negate visibilty to all but the drivers side mirror.Lambda light came on 1 hour into trip.36 hours later home safe and sound.By myself.That was 6 years ago this month.Best decision(carwise) I ever made.200 miles with friends and support?...Hah.6864.Steve.

Obviously his car needed the friend support and yours didn't - as he didn't make it 200 miles in it, more like 5 before it collapsed. $10k 6 years ago bought a lot more D than $10k now does. :)

[Evildeli]

Obviously his car needed the friend support and yours didn't - as he didn't make it 200 miles in it, more like 5 before it collapsed. $10k 6 years ago bought a lot more D than $10k now does. :)

Doesn't sound like his 10k bought much.:wink:

With all the tear down into the engine, are you going to upgrade the engine, or are you just cleaning and going stock?

[dmc6960]

Wow, what is the engine history here? I'd be very concerned if this engine was running recently, as those heads have absolutely no oil in them! There should be *something*.

That weld looks like it was a repair from a broken exhaust stud that was drilled out improperly. Assuming the repair was done well, its probably ok.

The freeze plug can probably be repaired assuming no major aluminum corrosion on the inside. Even then, perhaps a good machine shop can come up with something.

[DMage]

Wow, what is the engine history here? I'd be very concerned if this engine was running recently, as those heads have absolutely no oil in them! There should be *something*.

Engine hasn't run since last July, been drained of oil and sitting on a stand for more than 6 months.

[Morpheus]

Doesn't sound like his 10k bought much.:wink:

With all the tear down into the engine, are you going to upgrade the engine, or are you just cleaning and going stock?

My original intent was to tear it down and do cams & exhaust, but financial constraints may force me to alter my plans. It may all depend on what needs replacing.

At this point, it's starting to look like new heads at the very least. I'm hoping the block is in good shape.

[Morpheus]

For those who haven't been following this thread from the start, I have fixed all the earlier links from page 1 onward. Now you can all look back and remember what this car looked like in the very beginning!

[82DMC12]

Morpheus, I'm going to be doing a frame-off this summer. How did the chemical dip work out? What exactly was the process? I am going to have to get that done to mine. How did it all turn out? Pics??

Andy

[Morpheus]

Short answer: It's still going on.

The shop has had it for almost a month, and I'm getting antsy. Spoke to the guy today, and he anticipates it will be finished and ready to pick up the middle of next week. Rest assured, I will be taking lots of pics and posting a full write up.

[Morpheus]

Today, after a month of waiting, I was able to go pick up my frame from the "strip joint". I was quite impressed with what awaited me:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/0053da39.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/6cfc46dd.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/59f0db14.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/3417eea0.jpg

I'm amazed with how clean everything came out., i'm even more amazed at how few rust holes I found. Those nasty welds up front are in fact worse than they looked before. I'm fairly confident that I could have done a better job, and I haven't welded since shop class in high school.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/5b8bb534.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/df1ed933.jpg

The insides of the engine cradle look like swiss cheese...

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/ab5ea5fe.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/eb196c9f.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/14474749.jpg

Tomorrow, I take this mess of naked steel to my metal shop guy. Hopefully he can work some magic and I can get this thing galvanized before DCS!

[jawn101]

Wow, really cool. Never seen a frame naked like that. Too bad about the holes and the weld, but you'll get it fixed up :)

[pezzonovante88]

Well, looks great. A few patches and welds plus the galvanization and voila! It will be nice to know you have a virtually new/better than new frame under your car!

[DMage]

I can't believe that front frame held attached to the rest of the car!

Frames looking mighty clean. Amazing how that engine cradle looks after the dip. Get your metal shop guy working overtime on patching that thing up!

[Morpheus]

I can't believe that front frame held attached to the rest of the car!


After seeing that weld in all it's nekkidness, I'm now convinced that I'm doing the right thing by going ahead with this frame restoration. At the very least, I will be confident that my frame is going to be solid and will last for at least another 30 years.

[82DMC12]

Morpheus, I'll be needing the same work on my frame this summer/fall. Can you explain the process they used and the cost?

Thanks,
Andy

[Morpheus]

Andy, you need to look for a company that uses a process called Redi-strip. The process works like this:


Revivation uses a gentle, heated alkaline non acid and non destructive solution. This is a total immersion process using a two tank system. The first tank degreases and loosens the paint, bondo and undercoating. Then with a heated pressure water wash all paint, grease and scale is removed -gently - non destructively. The second tank is the secret process. An alkaline electrolytic solution is used. An electric DC current is passed through the tank and the rust or "ferrous ions" are separated from the metal - all of it. The piece emerges shiny; every pit and corner is completely rust free.

The company I used is called Auto Klassix Metal Clean in Wauchula, FL.

You can check out their website here: http://www.autorestorationdepot.com/index.html

[dmcerik]

Considering the condition of that engine and those surprises you've seen already, you may be better off in the long run going with a new engine from DPI.

[Morpheus]

I would love to be able to do that, however cost is definitely an issue. I can't justify $7k on a motor right now.

[dvonk]

...Those nasty welds up front are in fact worse than they looked before. I'm fairly confident that I could have done a better job, and I haven't welded since shop class in high school...

Tomorrow, I take this mess of naked steel to my metal shop guy. Hopefully he can work some magic and I can get this thing galvanized before DCS!

holy hell, those welds are gross!
ive never touched a welder before in my life, and i am fairly confident i could do a better job too... but i wouldve definitely left that kind of repair to the pros! the PO mustve had a death wish. :dead:

the shop did a great job cleaning up the frame, amazingly clean! looking forward to seeing your metal guy work some magic! :headbang:

[Morpheus]

Yesterday, I went down to the shop to check in on my frame, and was excited to see that progress had been made!

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/3a56def4.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/6fbbda81.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/26b3730e.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/d1b8fc63.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/8df39c07.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/d512a67d.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/9cc6542e.jpg

I should be able to pick the frame up on Monday. Next step: Galvanizing!

[vwdmc16]

Nice. Any reason the rear repairs were brazed in instead of Mig welded?

[Dangermouse]

That's a huge improvement already.

I am curious about the brazing as well

[Morpheus]

I'm not sure, is brazing a bad thing?

I'm sure it was done to keep costs down. Once it's galvanized, you won't know anything was brazed.

[Farrar]

A brazed join is not as strong as a welded join. However, brazing can often be plenty strong for its application.

[Morpheus]

It appears to me that he only brazed areas that needed filling. Perhaps he was trying to keep my costs lower.

[Farrar]

It appears to me that he only brazed areas that needed filling. Perhaps he was trying to keep my costs lower.

Makes sense -- welding where only brazing is needed would be kind of overkill.

Congrats on the galvanizing -- I hope to do that to my frame some day when I do a frame-off. :)

[Morpheus]

Tomorrow, I will be heading to Miami to get this lovely frame hot-dip galvanized.

In the meantime, here are some pics of the repairs. In addition to cleaning up the nasty welds, reinforcing plates were added for strength. I now have complete confidence in its structural rigidity, and have a solid foundation to begin re-building a reliable car around.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/917130b7.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/f011a4a3.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/68cb05d7.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/56add661.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/1bf3a08a.jpg

[Morpheus]

And now, I present my frame, only shinier.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/f46258c8.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/9eeb0d7c.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/4b536b09.jpg

Overall, I'm very happy with the end result. I have some cleaning out of epoxy remnants to do, as well as drilling and re-tapping all mount points on the frame. If anyone needs me, I'll be in the garage for the next month.

[Chris Burns]

And now, I present my frame, only shinier.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/f46258c8.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/9eeb0d7c.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/06%20Frame%20Teardown/4b536b09.jpg

Overall, I'm very happy with the end result. I have some cleaning out of epoxy remnants to do, as well as drilling and re-tapping all mount points on the frame. If anyone needs me, I'll be in the garage for the next month.

WOW!!

That turned out really nice. Can't wait to see the final result.

[vwdmc16]

Nice, now did the fuel tank closing plate really warp that much?

[DMCMW Dave]

Nice, now did the fuel tank closing plate really warp that much?

Yeah - they do that. Not a big deal. The bigger PITA is getting all the zinc out of the threaded holes.

[Morpheus]

Yeah - they do that. Not a big deal. The bigger PITA is getting all the zinc out of the threaded holes.

It was more warped from having to weld in new steel than it was from the galvanizing. Actually, they told me that it would warp pretty badly.

Turned out it wasn't very bad at all. ;)

Yes, I'll be tapping holes for a long time now. Guess I should have written down sizes and thread pitches before I did this...

[Dangermouse]

That is a thing of beauty. Seems a shame to cover it up.

[82DMC12]

Morpheus, would it be possible to put a bolt or screw in each frame hole before dipping, then unscrew them afterward, preserving the threads?

[DMCMW Dave]

Morpheus, would it be possible to put a bolt or screw in each frame hole before dipping, then unscrew them afterward, preserving the threads?

BTDT. In about 90% of the holes, that does a nice job of welding (well - zincing) the screws permanently into the holes. Antisieze helps but it's not perfect. High Temp RTV helps but it's not perfect either. Whatever you do, don't have the screws come out the other side of the hole all the way or it will never come back through the threads!

Zinc is easier to drill out than broken screws. Lots of work any way you do it.

[82DMC12]

When you say lots of work, is it just a matter of running a thread chaser through and its no biggie but takes time, or is it actually hard to fix the threads? Do you wind up accidentally making new threads most of the time or is it pretty easy to clean them out?

[DMCMW Dave]

When you say lots of work, is it just a matter of running a thread chaser through and its no biggie but takes time, or is it actually hard to fix the threads? Do you wind up accidentally making new threads most of the time or is it pretty easy to clean them out?

It's a lot of work. Zinc is softer than steel, but you'll still wear out a few taps. The worst ones are the blind holes for the upper control arms.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Like tapping aluminum...you do maybe one or two turns, back it out, blow it clean, add more alumatap. Soft stuff will "gum" up the threads.

[82DMC12]

So does anyone have a diagram showing what size taps to use for each hole in the frame? It would be great for someone like Morpheus to record this for future people (me) :-)

[Morpheus]

So does anyone have a diagram showing what size taps to use for each hole in the frame? It would be great for someone like Morpheus to record this for future people (me) :-)

I should have made notes before I did this. But, if anyone has this info, (or access to a naked frame) I would greatly appreciate any help!

[82DMC12]

Any updates on the project??

[Morpheus]

Not really, just busy cleaning up the frame for display @ DCS.

[82DMC12]

How is the retapping coming? Easy but tedious?

[Morpheus]

To be honest, I haven't even started it yet. I need to get on the ball and get at least e fuel tank cover plate done for DCS.

[82DMC12]

Didnt make it to DCS.... How the frame coming?

[Morpheus]

It's at a standstill right now, i'm waiting for some full time employment before I venture any further.

DCS was great, until Cliff Schmucker showed up with his polished stainless frame and made mine feel unbelievably inadequate.:frown:

[82DMC12]

Have you made much progress cleaning the threads out? Any other issues pop up?

[Chris Burns]

It's at a standstill right now, i'm waiting for some full time employment before I venture any further.

DCS was great, until Cliff Schmucker showed up with his polished stainless frame and made mine feel unbelievably inadequate.:frown:

Morpheus, your frame looked great and for someone that has restored a Delorean on a budget you have come far! I salute you sir and hope you can finish your Delorean.

[dvonk]

DCS was great, until Cliff Schmucker showed up with his polished stainless frame and made mine feel unbelievably inadequate.:frown:

i assumed that was your frame, it looked good. not as 'fancy' as Cliff's, but honestly, i think its more practical. :wink: i was hoping to talk to you more about your restoration; we met in the hotel elevator for a moment, but i didnt get a chance to properly converse with you afterward.

next DCS! :)

[Dangermouse]

I thought it looked good in the flesh too.

I didn't realize that Cliff has a stainless frame. For some reason I assumed it was "just" chromed like every thing else on that undercarriage.

Not to take anything away from Morpheus though. I suspect his (cliff) resources are a little different to the rest of us.

[Morpheus]

After many months of struggling with my crank pulley nut, (If you haven't heard the story already, you can read my writeup of that experience here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5534-Crank-pulley-nut-dillemma/page5) I have finally made some good progress in the dis-assembly of my motor.

Derek came over this morning and we started in on the dismantling. Here are some pics:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/EF56FC42-17BD-4341-A6CE-DA5411A6B339-4882-000006DDB62E7151.jpg

New discovery: broken off bolt in RS valve cover. Not sure why, because there is nothing usually bolted here.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/3371C8C0-6C7E-4DC1-93F3-79C6DBB38A65-4882-000006DDAA1D8F1A.jpg

Finicky filter screens behind the timing chain tensioners. I read in another thread that these aren't usually replaced in rebuilds. Mine have tiny holes in the screens.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/F9FCDEC5-4525-472B-B62F-9C8565E4F2F8-4882-000006DDC87EE769.jpg

Heads coming off, FINALLY.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/7BE6B4A4-FA43-4043-AB1D-37F798885F3D-4882-000006DDD314BC23.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/9004F626-08AD-48A2-A42B-D716A0768B6E-4882-000006DDDE5CFC8D.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/41F7C395-14DC-4947-9966-5F3D1DA84086-4882-000006DDE56DC3C4.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/A56113B0-1C41-4B40-A1B8-C18A069E7AAB-4882-000006DDF3EED9CA.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/6253BC3E-1955-4E3F-94C1-8073C45D710A-4882-000006DDEC7B8994.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/A1448A3E-FBED-446F-B9DC-0E4E2FD13B9F-4882-000006DE0441D49A.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/55F1EA78-9AF4-4427-A6F0-1025C7414265-4882-000006DDFDE41D59.jpg

At this point, I don't see any obvious block rot. The liners look ok, just need a good cleaning. I am a bit concerned about all the carbon in the cylinders though. The pistons are jet black and the top of the combustion chambers are covered in soot. I think it would be safe to say that this thing was running extremely rich.

Oil pan removal. Derek looks like a proud mechanic. Check out all that sludge in the bottom. Is that normal on a car with 17K miles? I should also point out that this motor has obviously been apart at least once before.

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/F7B0C780-E33A-49CB-B121-ED16733B0964-4882-000006DE0A004F03.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/6E8D9E24-3E6F-4184-841C-A227CE8DA903-4882-000006DE0F9CC90B.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/0211DA33-C56A-4F93-B9DA-CED8EABF5901-4882-000006DE15FD81EA.jpg

Lower crankcase:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/53450960-38DA-4756-AA1A-D17B437C3A12-4882-000006DE1C581D8F.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/C2B62EC7-D651-43CB-8F4C-B7220090E3AE-4882-000006DE29040490.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/BD6E55CD-0BAD-47E7-9D10-6C618C9E1B35-4882-000006DE2F61A0F7.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/C396EC9B-662F-48AF-9514-172BE76DD729-4882-000006DE35BC64CC.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/5A0B3DC2-736E-4E45-AF1E-5CBB13B8B112-4882-000006DE3BCCD2E9.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/092CE7F9-1D92-4E41-BFDF-1823A25674ED-4882-000006DE41D5A26C.jpg

A couple of things:
The liners won't budge. Is there a preferred way to get them out?
What are some parts that I should absolutely replace and what can I get away with re-using when I put this all back together?

My plan is to take the valve covers, timing chain cover, oil pan, lower crankcase, and block to get cleaned and powder coated. The heads, hell-coiled buggers that they are, will most likely be replaced.

Any advice on next steps for this first-time engine rebuilder would be greatly appreciated. My goal is to have this car running within 6 months.

[DMC5180]

Looks like your engine mount Thru bolts are seriously corroded in the girdle. You may need to heat the casting to cook the corrosion out.

[Morpheus]

Yeah, one side won't budge at all. It's probably not even the right size.

[vwdmc16]

Wow that is very dirty for that many miles.

[Morpheus]

I agree. When it did run, it was very rough.

[Morpheus]

Does anyone have some advice as far as next steps are concerned?

[DMCMW Dave]

You can hit the liners with a hammer but then this happens (from a severely corroded junk block):

15801

[DMCMW Dave]

That oil sludge is not mileage dependent, it is someone going a long time without an oil change and then parking the car for a decade or so. Pretty common.

[Morpheus]

Is it normal for the liners to stay put when tapping out the pistons? I thought that they were very prone to coming loose whenever the heads are off.

[DMCMW Dave]

Is it normal for the liners to stay put when tapping out the pistons? I thought that they were very prone to coming loose whenever the heads are off.

Normally they pop out. Sometimes they don't, depends on corrosion. You can tap on them lightly and it shouldn't take much to get them loose. On the broken one above it was a block that was going into the trash as it had been full of rainwater forever, and I wouldn't give up.

[Morpheus]

So i guess it's safe to assume that I should budget for new pistons and liners, especially if I end up marring the liners with my hammer? I don't know how resilient they will be.

Does anybody know what items should ABSOLUTELY be replaced and what can be cleaned up and re-used when putting a motor back together?

[Morpheus]

Update: I managed to get the liners free by hitting them with a hammer back and forth a bit. Funny thing, I noticed a large amount of a substance that looks a lot like sand toward the bottom of the cylinder liners. I'm not quite sure what it is. I will post pics when I get home from work.

[DMCMW Dave]

Update: I managed to get the liners free by hitting them with a hammer back and forth a bit. Funny thing, I noticed a large amount of a substance that looks a lot like sand toward the bottom of the cylinder liners. I'm not quite sure what it is. .

Silicates from old dried out coolant.

[AugustneverEnds]

Fantastic thread keep up your excellent work! Also thanks for showing me why I should stop bitching about my PO inflicted electrical glitches :tongue2: At least mine had the decency to only play with the radio and door/interior lights

[Morpheus]

Sorry for the late pics, I kept forgetting to upload them. Anyways, here they are. Notice the "sandy" looking stuff I was talking about.


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/7E81B153-661C-49D8-8790-A620D5FD51BA-2976-000004DA367109BE_zps6d1d767f.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/DF6FB0D9-5FF2-4DF5-8867-B174C42EDB29-2976-000004DA3D5CD028_zpsd3892584.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/9FD3F324-0488-432E-A482-F41FC7EEE673-2976-000004DA437E1B0A_zpsb3ea6da3.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/7791B93C-C046-4ECC-93CE-BAA70FC9732C-2976-000004DA497D46BC_zps42ed2acf.jpg

Here's the liners:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/3E80455D-2CD7-472E-9229-3E23ACC608B3-2976-000004DA55BE2A29_zps70400de8.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/morpheus34711/Daphne%20VIN%204363/07%20Engine%20Rebuild/BE020A3A-68F4-4C86-BE03-A75394C37DA4-2976-000004DA4FD87AA7_zps92cc907e.jpg

[Cartman]

Great tread :) how are things progresssing whit the engien rebuild?

Wl be folowing this tread :)

[Morpheus]

Right now, I'm focusing on getting everything cleaned up and powder coated. I will be purchasing pistons/liners and cams in the near future.