Lower control arm reinforcement / replacement options?

[DeLorean]

My LCA's are in fair shape, but have a nice coat of rust on them and are original. I figured I would pull them out when I do the front spring upgrade and either replace or reinforce them. I saw somewhere not too long ago where someone had additional support "sticks" on their lower control arms, they looked pretty good, sold here-

http://www.delorean.com/dmcmidwest/powerparts.html
http://www.delorean.com/dmcmidwest/images/lowercontrolarmkit600.jpg

Of course, they are $340 and that seems kind of steep for what they are.

Then there is the replacement option, The beefier units are sold at specialT for $550+ core?
http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/delorean-lower-control-arms.jpg

Or the stainless units from- http://www.pearce-design.com/ProductFrontLowerControl.html
at $950 for the pair.
http://www.pearce-design.com/Assets/LgFrontControlArms.jpg

The flimsy stamped steel rusty original units could use upgrading for sure, but what is the best bang for the buck? I am thinking I like the looks of the simple reinforcement "sticks"

[Spittybug]

For what it's worth, when I did my front end I took off the control arms and welded a plate across the bottom to box the arm. I also reinforced the end where the ball joint is. Not the prettiest welds in the world, but they have stood the test of time. I have my own MIG, but even if you just took them to someone to have done after sandblasting, this would be your least expensive and IMHO perfectly satisfactory solution. That is POR-15 anti rust paint they are painted with. It's pretty shiny stuff and with the flash it looks like uneven coverage. Before installing I top coated them with my stainless steel paint. Too bad nobody sees them!

[content22207]

Unfortunately boxing in the LCA's does not solve one of their weak points -- ball joint end cracking or even breaking off altogether (you can't box underneath the ball joint).

On #2508 I decided to go with girth: Bryne's 1/8" thick LCA's (ball joint pad is 1/4" thick), augmented with Ed's outriggers:
1563
It's as close to a double wishbone as we can easily get. Dry runs have been positive. If they prove bulletproof in service, I'll do the same thing to #5939.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[82DMC12]

Unfortunately boxing in the LCA's does not solve one of their weak points -- ball joint end cracking or even breaking off altogether (you can't box underneath the ball joint).

On #2508 I decided to go with girth: Bryne's 1/8" thick LCA's (ball joint pad is 1/4" thick), augmented with Ed's outriggers:
1563
It's as close to a double wishbone as we can easily get. Dry runs have been positive. If they prove bulletproof in service, I'll do the same thing to #5939.

Bill Robertson
#5939

I like that setup and it's probably what I'm going to do with mine eventually.

Andy

[tiger38117]

I bought the stainless ones...supposedly one of the last sets as they are out of production. They are so pretty they could sit on a bookshelf in your office...I almost hate to install them (winter project this year).

[Bitsyncmaster]

I bought the stainless ones...supposedly one of the last sets as they are out of production. They are so pretty they could sit on a bookshelf in your office...I almost hate to install them (winter priject this year).

I think DMCH still has them.

[content22207]

Stainless is a pretty soft metal, about on par with Grade 2 steel. Unless Bryan's control arms are thicker than OEM, they will still be susceptible to bending and flexing.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[vwdmc16]

those stainless ones look like solid CNC'd billet,or are they molded?


I really want to install a proper lower A arm in my car, just need to get up and do it.

[stevedmc]

On #2508 I decided to go with girth: Bryne's 1/8" thick LCA's (ball joint pad is 1/4" thick)

For the record, I ordered a set of LCAs from Bryne about a month ago and installed them a few weeks back. They are excellent.

A few months back someone created a thread on the old forum warning people not to buy Bryne's LCAs. Well, I called Bryne, verified the problem had been corrected, ordered a set and installed them the following week. This is a really high quality product.

[Bitsyncmaster]

The stainless are welded plates. I think they are thicker than stock. Dave S had weighed them but I forgot the numbers.

[content22207]

Bryan's are about half as heavy as Byrne's IIRC, which would put them 3-4 lbs each (Byrne's are about 7.5 lbs each).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[tiger38117]

I think DMCH still has them.

You may want to double check that. I was told there aren't many left anywhere

Of course I have been wrong before.

[content22207]

Bryan hasn't shown frame availability for about 2 years now. He may be getting out of the fabrication business.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DCUK Martin]

Stainless is a pretty soft metal,

Which grade, Bill? What do you mean by "soft"? Rigidity and yield strength are of interest here, not hardness.

[content22207]

Bryan uses 304 -- 70,000 PSI tensile strength (Grade 2 is 60,000).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[DeLorean]

Where does one buy Brynes LCA's from / And where is the best price place to buy Ed's outriggers from? It does seem like the best combination for control arm stability / safety.

[DMCMW Dave]

bare OEM arms are 2.85 lb
bare SS arms are 4.3 lb
Last I heard Byrne's are 5.9 lb. (Someone told me 7.2 with the ball joint and bushing installed I believe, so I weighed those parts and subtracted. Updated info welcome!)

[Byrne H&A]

For the record, I ordered a set of LCAs from Bryne about a month ago and installed them a few weeks back. They are excellent.

A few months back someone created a thread on the old forum warning people not to buy Bryne's LCAs. Well, I called Bryne, verified the problem had been corrected, ordered a set and installed them the following week. This is a really high quality product.

See photos of Byrne's Lower Control Arms including Rear Pivot Bushing, Stabilizer Bar Bushings with Steel Sleeves and Ball Joint. www.Deloreanupgradeparts.com

[1batt4u]

Has anyone purchased these at all?? http://www.pearce-design.com/Product...erControl.html as well as the upper.

And how do you like them??

Thank you!!!

[Malevy]

Grady and Hervey both sell a reinforcement plate that goes on with the lower ball joint. This, in combination of "boxing" the LCA and using Toby's ARB bushing is probably enough to improve the front end without drastically changing the design.

Tom and I have modified a few sets of LCA's. We used some angle iron instead of boxing the entire thing. It is just as stiff, with less weight.

I like the idea of Ed's brackets (making it more like wishbone), but worry that the LCA may be too stiff and not flex with the arc formed by the ARB. I have not ever had the chance to install the brackets, so I can't say for sure. Maybe it is the exchange rate, but they are very expensive.

[content22207]

Ed's outriggers *ARE* frightfully expensive. What you're paying for is not having to figure out the bends yourself, and a set of polyurethane bushings. (Byrne doesn't exactly give his LCA's away either).

The reinforcing plate Hervey sells is to tighten up the ball joint press fit. It serves no structural purpose.

Byrne has pictures of LCA failures on his website:
http://deloreannewparts.com/store/media/control-arm-broken.gif
A European owner also had his ball joint snap off shortly before the old DMCTalk site died. Boxing in the LCA will do absolutely nothing to prevent that from happening.

Boxing in the LCA will not prevent fore/aft movement either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMHO4Aydk04
(That video does include some torsional flex as well, which boxing will help eliminate). Fore/aft movement is a function of slop in the bushing, and the fact that the arm is very narrow for its length (it actually is narrowest at the point of rotation). If you ever disconnect your sway bar from the LCA, you will be amazed at how floppy it is on its own. The only thing that keeps it from folding back underneath the car is the sway bar, which is basically a spring and rather ill suited for such a task.

To allow more fore/aft movement in the sway bar, simply turn the crumple extension bushings around.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Malevy]

The reinforcement plate gives extra strength to the LCA where the ball joint is pressed in.

Boxing the arm makes it stiffer, which will make it absorb less energy and redirect it to the frame and ARB. I like the idea of Ed's arms, but until I see them for myself (and maybe test drive a car with them) I can't justify the cost.

[content22207]

... until I see them for myself (and maybe test drive a car with them)....

Wanna make a reservation for SS'12? (I may not have #2508 in service by FFT'11).

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Malevy]

For a drive? sure... It would help me to see what improvements it makes, but I'd still wonder about the additional stresses on the ARB mounts as the suspension travels up and down. The end of the ARB moves in an arc, so something has to "give".

[content22207]

The sway bar itself is full of give. Next time you have yours off the car, stand it vertically on the ground and pull down on it. You'll be amazed how springy it is -- a very unsuitable piece of metal to hold the LCA's in place.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[1batt4u]

So how about the SS upper lower ones?? Anyone recommend them?? OR even have them??

Thank you!!!!! :cool1:

[content22207]

Upper control arm is not a failure prone. It also does not twist and flex like the lower control arm. Replacement would basically be cosmetic only.

Bill Robertson
#5939

[Chris 16409]

On #2508 I decided to go with girth: Bryne's 1/8" thick LCA's (ball joint pad is 1/4" thick), augmented with Ed's outriggers.

Hey Bill, I just got some of Ed's outriggers for my car. They didn't come with labels to distinguish which pair go to what side of the car? Does it matter. I see the side that has the more prominent bend goes on the side away from the sway bar.

[DMCMW Dave]

Hey Bill, I just got some of Ed's outriggers for my car. They didn't come with labels to distinguish which pair go to what side of the car? Does it matter. I see the side that has the more prominent bend goes on the side away from the sway bar.

They really only fit one way. The more "bent" ones go to the back of the car, and the "bump" in the ends faces down.

[stevedmc]

Is the DMCMW kit the same as what Ed is selling? It looks identical to me but just thought I'd ask.

[Chris 16409]

They really only fit one way. The more "bent" ones go to the back of the car, and the "bump" in the ends faces down.

That's what I was thinking. Thanks for the confirmation Dave.

[Chris 16409]

Dave, If I've got polly lower control arm bushes, I can torque the bolts down without the weight of the car on the suspension right?

[tyb323]

So what is the reccomendation here? I'm going through my front suspension and was thinking of boxing the lcas, but Captain Carb is telling me it's useless. Will boxing do the job or should I cough up the cash for Byrne's LCAs?

[Kenny_Z]

I think welding would be fine for a daily driver. If you were autocrossing the D I'd say go with the upgraded LCAs.

My Mustang has the same style stamped steel LCAs but are 42+ years old. They haven't broken or bent yet and I'm rough on her. I'm probably going to weld a plate on them when I swap in the disc brakes. I figure if the stamped steel is good enough in a car who has a 500lb chunk of steel sitting over them then it's fine for a lighter sports car.

[Marty]

bare OEM arms are 2.85 lb
bare SS arms are 4.3 lb
Last I heard Byrne's are 5.9 lb. (Someone told me 7.2 with the ball joint and bushing installed I believe, so I weighed those parts and subtracted. Updated info welcome!)

Thanks for posting weights Dave. Does anyone know what Hervey's aluminum LCAs weigh?

[Chris 16409]

Two years ago when I was shopping around for options, I asked Hervey about them, and he said he had like one pair left, and was going to keep them for himself. I think he needs to update his site.

[DeLorean]

SO bumping this back up... The Outriggers, are they still sold by DMC? Wheres the best place to get them TODAY?

[Bill Robertson's Sock Puppet #1]

Houston itself doesn't sell them, only Dave Swingle at DMCMW.

You may want to read discussion about the bushings walking out in this thread: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?5881-My-Front-Suspension-is-Badly-bent-What-do-you-think