Choices of speakers

[MartyP]

Hi !
I just bought a new radio unit, and I'm installing it today.

Next step will be the speakers in week or 2 !

For the front 3.5'' I have these choices:
1- JBL GTO328
2- Kicker KS35
3- Pioneer TS-A878

As for the rear 4 x 10:
1- Pioneer TS-A4103
2- Kicker KS-410

I havent seen anything else in 4x10 sizes.

They all seem to be in the same price range and watts.Just wondering wich is a better quality.

[Grover]

def. get the JBL's for the front

[Wells Auto]

def. get the JBL's for the front


Agreed, I have the JBL's for the front and they work well.

[mluder]

While I agree the JBLs are probably a better speaker, my inclination woul be towards voice matching. The problem with buying the JBLs is figuring out what to match them with for the rears. By sticking with the same manufacturer, and in this case same model line (the TS series from Pioneer), you have some assurance that the manufacturer intended the speakers to work together to create a more complete sound field.

On a side note, and I cannot say for certain as I've never physically seen them, the Pioneer tweeter may have a center driver that sticks above the mounting flange. Could be an issue for insatll.

Just my 2 cents.

BTW, I have Boston fronts and they're OK but I have yet to replace my rears which are original and blown. I'm going to order the front and rear set of Pioneers from Amazon. I'll let you know how it works out.

Steve
#4456

[DeLorean937]

Just installed the Kicker 4x10's in the rear, and for the size speaker they are, they actually sound awesome. Nice kick and bass. Plus it drowns out the engine noise quite nicely. Which are these:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Kicker+-+4%22+x+10%22+Coaxial+Speakers+with+Polypropylene+ Cones+%28Pair%29+-+Graphite/2304195.p?id=1218320079427&skuId=2304195&st=kicker%20speaker%204x10&cp=1&lp=15

In the front's I did Kicker 3.5", also amazing sound.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Kicker+-+3-1/2%22+Coaxial+Speakers+with+Polypropylene+Cones+%28 Pair%29+-+Graphite/2304229.p?id=1218320820479&skuId=2304229&st=kicker%20&cp=1&lp=11

And for the deck, I chose Alpine with Pandora Sync. so everytime that I get in the car, the radio automatically syncs up to Pandora. Has USB connectivity, IPOD, AUX Input, CD

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Alpine+-+50W+x+4+Apple%26%23174%3B+iPod%26%23174%3B-/Satellite+Radio-Ready+In-Dash+CD+Deck/1934032.p?id=1218322059298&skuId=1934032&st=alpine%20radio&cp=1&lp=4

[MartyP]

MY deck is a Pioneer DEH-7300 BT (bluetooth). sounds great even with the old Craig speakers !!!

How about the Infinity 3032CF for the front ? any good ? cost about the same as the JBL !

Right now, I' think I'm gonna go with either this setup:

front: JBL GTO328
rear: Kicker KS-410

or a complete Pioneer set front: TS-A878 & rear TS-A4103

Any more info on each speakers is appreciated before I finally order in 2-3 days !!!!

[TTait]

I can whole heartedly recommend the Infinity kappa 329CF

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-329CF-Custom-Two-Way-Speakers/dp/B0018SJ4AK

for the front.

I expect more from the rears, and nothing yet has made me really happy. The best I have tried so far is the Pyramid

http://www.amazon.com/PYRAMID-4108GS-3-Way-Speakers-300-Watts/dp/B00069QULS

Thats not saying much - I'm not all that happy.. That said I did an experiment last week while the interior was gutted... I went out and bought Alpine SPS 517 6X9 speakers. Most any 6X9 will fit if you modify the mounting bracket a bit. The alpine seemed like a good choice, and it fit. But with one installed I panned left and right on just the rears, and thy sounded no better than the pyramids. Since I own the pyramids I returned the alpines for a refund.

Probably the problem is the chinese head unit - its an all in one with all the bells and whistles, but its not a high quality receiver, but the fronts sounded better than either of the larger rears. All speakers have #14 speaker wire BTW)

That all said, with a little modification to the mounting bracket you can install just about any speaker up to 5.25" wide. If I try again with the rears I'm going to go for the larger Infinitys - which I'm 99% sure will fit fine and are VERY highly rated. You can find them here

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-529I-Inch-Two-Way-Speakers/dp/B00190Z7Z8

I'd be thrilled at this point if someone tries out these 5.25 infinity speakers and lets me know if they are happy. I'll tell you the matching fronts sound great.

Tom

[mluder]

MY deck is a Pioneer DEH-7300 BT (bluetooth). sounds great even with the old Craig speakers !!!

How about the Infinity 3032CF for the front ? any good ? cost about the same as the JBL !

Right now, I' think I'm gonna go with either this setup:

front: JBL GTO328
rear: Kicker KS-410

or a complete Pioneer set front: TS-A878 & rear TS-A4103

Any more info on each speakers is appreciated before I finally order in 2-3 days !!!!

BTW... This place has the Pioneers for less than Amazon and free shipping though I've never bought from them so I can't personally recomend them.

[TTait]

Damn this thread! I had resigned myself to live with the Pyramids per above, but I just went ahead and ordered the Infinity 5.25" units. I'll let you all know within the week how they sound.

Shouldn't be spending the $ right now... but you guys twisted my arm.

[uhhair]

I can whole heartedly recommend the Infinity kappa 329CF

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-329CF-Custom-Two-Way-Speakers/dp/B0018SJ4AK

for the front.

Tom


+1 on this, they the best speakers available for the front of the D. We have them installed on our car and they are incredible.

Keep in mind, 4x10's have almost no bass, so in order to get a pretty decent sounding system in the D, you'll have to install some sort of sub to really get it going. There are tons of options out there for this, just depends on how much you want to spend really.

[Malevy]

Rear speakers need to have the panels reinstalled if you want to hear what they sound like properly.

The A/B test of Pyramid 4 X10 vs Alpine 6 X 9 is not valid unless you reinstalled the panels.

For a speaker to have any low frequency response, the font of the speaker must be isolated from the rear of the speaker. The entire concept of how the speaker works is by small changes in air pressure. If the front and back are in the same "air space" then it will sound like crap, no matter the size or quality of the speaker.

In the DMC, the cover panel is what controls the air between the front and back of the speaker. For better sound, add some weather strip foam around the speaker to get a better seal against the panel.

[DeLorean]

What about the Kenwood KFC-415? 4X10's I have used them in Saabs in the past, they seem pretty good!

[jmrydholm]

I have an Alpine CD/MP3 player in mine with 2.5 Clarion's in the front, and box mounted 6x9 Pioneer 75w speakers in the back. I temporarily took them out to clean my car/not have the radio stolen. The only downside is my Alpine is about 6 years old, so no handy USB port. Ah well. Soon CD-R's will follow the mix tape and 8 track. sigh...

I used to have JBL's but some butthead stole them years ago! :angry:
*Insert Biff expression here*

[TTait]

I'm finally happy. I have Infinity kappa 329CF speakers installed in the front, and I have the matching Infinity Kappa 529i pair that came in today in the rears.

When you pan and fade to any one speaker, they sound good, but once you center everything up and hear them all the results are excellent. I'm very happy and wholeheartedly recommend them.

The 529s also have an tweeter you can aim, and a small button on them which allows you to boost the tweeter output by +3dB if desired. I chose not to.

My search for speakers has ended.

[TTait]

Here is a photo of the rear in place - no modifications required...

Again this is the infinity kappa 529i (or 5.29)

(Why yes - that is new carpeting - thanks for noticing...)

[ydjk58]

I got a full set of Memphis audio speakers for my D. Still figuring out a head unit and awaiting my D back from DPI. And yes Memphis makes 4x10s. Mounting my amp and sub should be fun. But luckily I went with a shallow mount 10" dual voice coil sub ment for pickups.

[AirmanPika]

I think another option would be to mount 4x6 speakers. There are various types availible and I think a few have better sound than the 4x10s. Its really just a matter of magnet size and adapting the ring to hold it.

[mluder]

Here is a photo of the rear in place - no modifications required...

Again this is the infinity kappa 529i (or 5.29)

(Why yes - that is new carpeting - thanks for noticing...)

So they fit completely? No changes needed to the mounting strap or the interior panels?

Cause' I'm gonna order them and I'd hate to have to track you down. :wrenchin:

[TTait]

When I switched to the 4 x 10 pyramids a few years back I had to bend up the mounts a little to hold a larger magnet - when I installed these5.25" infinitys I had to bend them back. Its possible that they may require a minor tweak to the bracket, can't say for sure, but it took me 30 seconds each to bend them "back" to stock.

Just be careful to remove the panels without damaging them. You only have to remove 1 seatbelt bolt that goes thru the panel, you can leave the rest connected if you only move the panel a foot or two out of the way instead of totally pulling it out of the car.

Also, these speakers don't have male terminals, they have screw down clamps to go onto bare wire or ferrules. You can cut off the factory terminals, or make a short adapter. I chose to replace the stock wiring with #14 all around - which I think was worth the trouble.


I did also experiment with 6X8 speakers, which required drilling a new hole in the speaker bracket - but good 6X8s sounder no better than good 4X10s. With that hole drilled only 1 of the factory rivnuts could be reused, others would have to be installed or you could use silicon adhesive with 1 screw or drill and screw directly into the fiberglass. Between this and the fact that good quality 6x8s didn't sound any better - I scrapped the whole 6X8 form factor and am happy with 5.25" units.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the infinitys... get fronts and backs (see above)

Either way, feel free to hunt me down - one of us will end up buying the other lunch when you get here depending on how happy you are.

[mluder]

When I switched to the 4 x 10 pyramids a few years back I had to bend up the mounts a little to hold a larger magnet - when I installed these5.25" infinitys I had to bend them back. Its possible that they may require a minor tweak to the bracket, can't say for sure, but it took me 30 seconds each to bend them "back" to stock.

Just be careful to remove the panels without damaging them. You only have to remove 1 seatbelt bolt that goes thru the panel, you can leave the rest connected if you only move the panel a foot or two out of the way instead of totally pulling it out of the car.

Also, these speakers don't have male terminals, they have screw down clamps to go onto bare wire or ferrules. You can cut off the factory terminals, or make a short adapter. I chose to replace the stock wiring with #14 all around - which I think was worth the trouble.


I did also experiment with 6X8 speakers, which required drilling a new hole in the speaker bracket - but good 6X8s sounder no better than good 4X10s. With that hole drilled only 1 of the factory rivnuts could be reused, others would have to be installed or you could use silicon adhesive with 1 screw or drill and screw directly into the fiberglass. Between this and the fact that good quality 6x8s didn't sound any better - I scrapped the whole 6X8 form factor and am happy with 5.25" units.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the infinitys... get fronts and backs (see above)

Either way, feel free to hunt me down - one of us will end up buying the other lunch when you get here depending on how happy you are.

Thanks, Tom... I'm gonna order them tomorrow.

Cheers.

[MartyP]

This is my Pioneer radio unit. I like the fact that it's bluetooth and themicrophone is included.

And the fact is that it doesn't stand out too much with the blue color with my blue LED center console.

In my opinion if you upgrade something it must still fit the image of the car. And this one is perfect.

[TTait]

So the clock on the radio shows you where your going, and the one in the console shows you where you've been?

Nice unit...

[ramblinmike]

So the clock on the radio shows you where your going, and the one in the console shows you where you've been?

Nice unit...

How do you know where you are?

[dmc6960]

How do you know where you are?

You look out the window.

[MartyP]

I had to unplug the battery to install the raio and dint set my clock after that !!!

[AirmanPika]

I can second the Infinity Kappa 52.9i's in the rear. I just threw a set into my car along with some Infinity Kappa 32.9cf's in the front.

[sdg3205]

I just ordered the Infinity's for the front and back.

Any tips on replacing the rears to avoid damage?

[mluder]

I also got the Infinity set... I went to install them today and hit a small roadblock. The dash studs are not long enough for the new speakers which have a spacer ring on them.

So, how did you guys mount the fronts? The spacer ring is necessary to protect the center speaker and the rubber speaker mount. With it in place the exisitng studs in the dash are not long enough.

Did you just mount to the lower fiberglass because I'm not sure there's another way? Also... any advice on how to deal with the dangling crossover?

Thanks. Can't wait to hear them.

Steve

[mluder]

DO NOT BUY THESE INFINITY SPEAKERS. THEY DO NOT FIT.

Unless others can tell me how they did it.

The fronts have a spacer on the front that makes them too deep for the existing mounting studs - in other words you cannot use the exisitng mounting location.

The rear's are too wide to fit along the wheel well in the factory position. I also believe the tweeter sticks out too far to allow the back panel to be reinstalled.

Others have said they work. Tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Here are pics of te rears...
2509251025112512

EDIT - sorry the pics are out of focus - I was in a hurry. You can still see how the mounting holes do not align and the indent in the carpet is the panel position with the speaker sticking beyond it.

EDIT B - Took another look at Tom's pic... It looks tight in the fit but it's in there. I will have annother go at it later and let everyone know how it turns out.
Steve

[mluder]

Update... I got one of the rear speakers in. It's a tight squeeze but seems ok.

The fronts are another matter. Gonna have to think about how.

[sdg3205]

Update... I got one of the rear speakers in. It's a tight squeeze but seems ok.

The fronts are another matter. Gonna have to think about how.

Hey Steve,

could you post a pic or two of the problems with the fronts?

[mluder]

Hey Steve,

could you post a pic or two of the problems with the fronts?

The first pic is the Boston speaker I had originally installed to replace the factory ones.
2538

These are the new Infinity - Note the flange that makes up the difference for the cwnter tweeter. It moves the mounting tabs too far from the face to grab the existing screw studs in the dash.
2537 2536

The speaker will not sit flush against the dash pad. The only work around I can see is to dirll pilot holes in the fiberglass and mount the speakers lower so they are not flush. I can take pics of that if needed but it's pretty obvious if you get under there with a flashlight.

Steve

[sdg3205]

Ah, I see what you mean.

Keep us posted. looks like I'll have to figure it out too.

[TTait]

The only difference I can imagine is that I have a DMCH reproduction dash installed. The speakers are a bit taller, but we put on a nut and then a washer onto the stud and ran them most or all of the way up, then the speaker, a washer, and the bottom nut.

I didn't actually install them as its cramped - I made my 12 year old daughter crawl under the steering wheel laying on her back and I instructed her as to what to do - the first one took her about 10 minutes and the second one 5.

Didn't meant to lead you astray - is the problem that the studs are too short, or that they ate not spaced properly?

The old speaker I had in there were in for the original dash, then they went in again for the new one, so I didn't notice any difference there.



Photos attached25492550

[Grover]

If I recall correctly, the reproduction dashes had the studs made longer as to allow speakers with the tweeters and lip to fit at the suggestion of a DMA member when the dashes were first shown at an event.

I think this is why myself, and other people with the tweeter lip around the top of the speaker have no problems with the fit on the reproduction dash.

[TTait]

Is that stud 4mm or 5mm, anyone recall?

You can get a coupling nut and another bolt to do the job. I have a local place near me (Metric Specialties) that stocks them in 5mm. I can run over and pick a few up and send them out to you if your local hardware store can't get them...

Tom

[mluder]

Is that stud 4mm or 5mm, anyone recall?

You can get a coupling nut and another bolt to do the job. I have a local place near me (Metric Specialties) that stocks them in 5mm. I can run over and pick a few up and send them out to you if your local hardware store can't get them...

Tom

That's awesome, Tom. The existing stud is too short. Funnily enough, I have a repro dash pad sitting up on a shelf that I got from the previoous owner when I got the car. I have been holding off installing it because I'm wating for the binacles to go into production. (fingers crossed) Don't want to tear that apart twice if I can help it.

Are coupling nuts common? Not sure where I would go around here for something like that. I'm sure the home improvement stores would be a bust.

Don't haassle yourself picking up the coupling nuts. I'm sure I can find them on the internet and that will work until I install the new dash pad. If I can't find em, I might take you up on the offer later.

BTW, I don't feel misled... I managed to get the rears in just fine like you said and the front was a hiccup you couldn't have forseen.

Cheers.
Steve

[TTait]

Common yes, but not too common as M4 metric.

I image your local ace hardware can order it (home depot and lowes often bite at this sort of thing). Metric specialties doesn't stock it as an M4.

I did a quick google search and you can buy 25 for 6 bucks, but thats more than you'd need.

Someone with some cash to spend might buy the bag of 25 and market them with a kit of speakers - you will really like them when you hear them.

The last option might be to make your own - put some generous anti sieze on a m4 bolt and then put 4 nuts on it - epoxy or tack weld them together and spin them off.

Sorry about the boondoggle, but it will be worth it when you turn all 4 speakers on...

Tom

[mluder]

Common yes, but not too common as M4 metric.

I image your local ace hardware can order it (home depot and lowes often bite at this sort of thing). Metric specialties doesn't stock it as an M4.

I did a quick google search and you can buy 25 for 6 bucks, but thats more than you'd need.

Someone with some cash to spend might buy the bag of 25 and market them with a kit of speakers - you will really like them when you hear them.

The last option might be to make your own - put some generous anti sieze on a m4 bolt and then put 4 nuts on it - epoxy or tack weld them together and spin them off.

Sorry about the boondoggle, but it will be worth it when you turn all 4 speakers on...

Tom

Thanks for the suggestions.

I like the idea of epoxying some bolts together as a temporary but immediate fix. I'm impatient so it would be quick and do the job until I install the new dashpad.

By the way... Looks like its an M4.

Steve

[Malevy]

If I recall correctly, the reproduction dashes had the studs made longer as to allow speakers with the tweeters and lip to fit at the suggestion of a DMA member when the dashes were first shown at an event.


You're welcome (I suggest this to James when they were making the new dashboards).

When I did this install, I ordered from Mcmaster-carr. Got some barrel nuts/binding posts and cut a slot in it with a dremmel. Worked perfect.

[Grover]

You're welcome (I suggest this to James when they were making the new dashboards).

When I did this install, I ordered from Mcmaster-carr. Got some barrel nuts/binding posts and cut a slot in it with a dremmel. Worked perfect.

I didn't want to name names =)

Thanks Marc, my JBL's fit very nicely because of your comment.

[MartyP]

I got the Kickers KS35 fo the front and the KS410 for the rear.

I tought the 3.5 where supposed to fit nicely in the hole and that the stud was long enough. well it's not.

I have the original dash. And the Kickers KS35 dont even fit. the tweeter is against the dash and I cant get the nut on stud.

I hope the rear one fits better.

I bought hese so It wouldn't be a problem installing them.

[Malevy]

I tought the 3.5 where supposed to fit nicely in the hole and that the stud was long enough. well it's not.


See my previous post-



When I did this install, I ordered from Mcmaster-carr. Got some barrel nuts/binding posts and cut a slot in it with a dremmel. Worked perfect.

[kajcienski]

I got the Kickers KS35 fo the front and the KS410 for the rear.

I tought the 3.5 where supposed to fit nicely in the hole and that the stud was long enough. well it's not.

I have the original dash. And the Kickers KS35 dont even fit. the tweeter is against the dash and I cant get the nut on stud.

I hope the rear one fits better.

I bought hese so It wouldn't be a problem installing them.


I had the same issue with the front Kickers. I bent the tabs to fit (and avoid the speaker hitting the dash), but didn't want to run into future problems replacing them. It also seemed like a bit of a clunky way to do it. I ended up epoxy welding new 3' shafts to the frame opening (verses drilling into the fiberglass). Very easy to do and extremely easy to access now. Just an idea...

[TTait]

Steve, did you ever get the coupling nuts?

[jawn101]

Steve, did you ever get the coupling nuts?

I've been looking everywhere for them. They are 4mm studs. I found 5mm coupling nuts locally but 4mm was limited to standard nuts. I tried building my own with epoxy but it fell apart. *Sigh*

Hey, does anyone have a how-to on removing the center console/radio mounting bracket? I pulled out all the visible screws but the thing is really in there still.

[dmc6960]

Is this what you need?

http://www.fastenermart.com/html/MNT151-9952.html

http://www.fastenermart.com/Merchant2/graphics/prod/MN164606.gif

"M4-0.7 x 8 mm Wd x 12 mm Lng Metric Rod Coupling Nut, Zinc Plated, 25 pcs"
$6.43

[jawn101]

Is this what you need?

http://www.fastenermart.com/html/MNT151-9952.html

http://www.fastenermart.com/Merchant2/graphics/prod/MN164606.gif

"M4-0.7 x 8 mm Wd x 12 mm Lng Metric Rod Coupling Nut, Zinc Plated, 25 pcs"
$6.43

Those are them - that's the only place I could find them too. But we only need 4, not 25 :)

And, I just realized that store has a $15 minimum order, so we could buy 75 of them to make that....

[mluder]

Steve, did you ever get the coupling nuts?

I did not. It's one of those things where I thought... "I don't want to order them, it'll take forever to get them." Of course that was weeks ago and I would have them by now if I had.

I got sidetracked by a coolent issue. Anyway, I'll get around to it sooner or later.

Steve
#4456

[TTait]

Grainger and mcmaster carr want $7 to $9 per nut...

[sphiend]

Those are them - that's the only place I could find them too. But we only need 4, not 25 :)

And, I just realized that store has a $15 minimum order, so we could buy 75 of them to make that....

So did anyone order these and try them with the Infinity front speakers? The speakers look to get positive reviews but I do not have a DMCH dash. Assuming I would need the extenders.

Might be willing to place the $20 order and resell 2 of the packs to those who need them.

[sdg3205]

I need some too.

Just got my infinity's in yesterday.

I'll buy 4 off whoever makes the order.

[jawn101]

I need some too.

Just got my infinity's in yesterday.

I'll buy 4 off whoever makes the order.

+1 - I'll order some off anyone willing to make the big order.

[sdg3205]

I'd do it, but it would be more expensive right off the top given they'd have to come to Canada.

[jawn101]

I just discovered if you search for "m4 spacer" on eBay we will all find what we're looking for. The question now is what length to get. They come in 12, 18, 20, 25mm... so it will vary based on speakers I guess. They also come in a male-female configuration so you could bolt the spacer to the dashboard, then just thread the nyloc nut on the end. But, that configuration requires even more careful measurement to determine the spacer length as one end will be fixed.

[sdg3205]

The 529s also have an tweeter you can aim, and a small button on them which allows you to boost the tweeter output by +3dB if desired. I chose not to.



pull it out gently, reposition and push back in?

[jawn101]

The only difference I can imagine is that I have a DMCH reproduction dash installed. The speakers are a bit taller, but we put on a nut and then a washer onto the stud and ran them most or all of the way up, then the speaker, a washer, and the bottom nut.

I didn't actually install them as its cramped - I made my 12 year old daughter crawl under the steering wheel laying on her back and I instructed her as to what to do - the first one took her about 10 minutes and the second one 5.

Didn't meant to lead you astray - is the problem that the studs are too short, or that they ate not spaced properly?

The old speaker I had in there were in for the original dash, then they went in again for the new one, so I didn't notice any difference there.



Photos attached25492550

Do you happen to know how tall the spacer ring is? That'd help determine how long of a coupling nut we need :)

[TTait]

I'd guess a shorter coupling nut, remember its pretty easy to come up with differing length m4 bolts to complete the connection. While I have no horse in the race at the moment, I'd think if you got a 10mm one you'd have flexibility. Once you have the right combination of m4 bolt and coupling nut, I'd go ahead and put threadlock on the bolt and then run it about a third of the way into the coupling nut, so you'd have good adjustibility and less chance of installing it with either set of threads not engaged far enough.

As for the boost button on the speaker, its just a pushbutton, push it down to latch, push it again it pops up. If you were to note exactly where it was during installation , you may be able to see the button and carefully press it through the holes in the grill, being very careful not to poke the speaker.

I was amazed that m4 coupling nuts weren't on ebay - kudos for finding them!

[jawn101]

I'd guess a shorter coupling nut, remember its pretty easy to come up with differing length m4 bolts to complete the connection. While I have no horse in the race at the moment, I'd think if you got a 10mm one you'd have flexibility. Once you have the right combination of m4 bolt and coupling nut, I'd go ahead and put threadlock on the bolt and then run it about a third of the way into the coupling nut, so you'd have good adjustibility and less chance of installing it with either set of threads not engaged far enough.

As for the boost button on the speaker, its just a pushbutton, push it down to latch, push it again it pops up. If you were to note exactly where it was during installation , you may be able to see the button and carefully press it through the holes in the grill, being very careful not to poke the speaker.

I was amazed that m4 coupling nuts weren't on ebay - kudos for finding them!

Where did you end up mounting that little crossover box? Just zip-tie it to the harness under the dash or something?

And yeah, there are (apparently?) a thousand names for coupling nuts - it took some searching, but I found some guy on a model train forum in the UK who called them standoffs, which lead to someone else calling them spacers, which led to the ebay discovery.

[mluder]

Where did you end up mounting that little crossover box? Just zip-tie it to the harness under the dash or something?

And yeah, there are (apparently?) a thousand names for coupling nuts - it took some searching, but I found some guy on a model train forum in the UK who called them standoffs, which lead to someone else calling them spacers, which led to the ebay discovery.

I used some double sided tape and stuck the crossover to the fiberglass for the rear speaker. That way they wont rattle around - there's enough rattling already. I'll probablty do the same for the fronts when I get around to installing them... I need to get some coupling nuts too.

Steve

[TTait]

Hmmm didn't think of that. Mine are free to rattle, they are just hanging under the speaker in the front and in the back I guess they can rattle - doublestick tape sounds like a good idea.

[sdg3205]

Gentlemen - why do you need the coupler?

I went home last night with the understanding that I did, then when i took them out of their packaging I realized i could bend the brackets up and out (there's even a crease line for the "out" bend!).

Original dash, new Infinities installed, much debris in my eyes.

[jawn101]

Gentlemen - why do you need the coupler?

I went home last night with the understanding that I did, then when i took them out of their packaging I realized i could bend the brackets up and out (there's even a crease line for the "out" bend!).

Original dash, new Infinities installed, much debris in my eyes.

Dave - which exact infinities did you get?

[sdg3205]

Dave - which exact infinities did you get?

The Infinity Kappa 32.9 cf.

I also reused the washers between the dash and speaker.

[jawn101]

The Infinity Kappa 32.9 cf.

I also reused the washers between the dash and speaker.

That might be my problem as I originally got the Infinity 3032cf - definitely no room for bracket adjustment there. Did the 32.9 fit flush against the dash or did you need a foam gasket to keep it sealed?

[sdg3205]

That might be my problem as I originally got the Infinity 3032cf - definitely no room for bracket adjustment there. Did the 32.9 fit flush against the dash or did you need a foam gasket to keep it sealed?

It's hard to tell. My guess is it's pretty darn flush. It didn't rock back and forth on the brackets when pressed against the dash. Given the relatively soft material of the OEM dashes, I'm not too concerned.

[sdg3205]

I'm going to tackle the rears tonight.

Any tips or tricks to removing these panels? I hear they are extremely fragile.

Also, what adhesive do you use to reattach them?

[Malevy]

Some people cut them, behind the weather strip.. But, I like to heat the glue up with a heat gun, then it peels right off. It is usually still sticky enough to just roll it back over and put the weather strip back on.

[jawn101]

I'm going to tackle the rears tonight.

Any tips or tricks to removing these panels? I hear they are extremely fragile.

Also, what adhesive do you use to reattach them?

I can tell you that yes, they are fragile. My PO made a real pig's breakfast of removing the driver's side one by trying to peel off the adhesive rather than just making a clean cut with an xacto knife along the seam under the outer door seal. So, here's a few things to look out for:

- Like I said above, I'm pretty sure the best method is to (sadly and horribly difficult to understand from an original design perspective) cut the thin layer of material that wraps around the tub from inside to out. You'll see it glued to the tub under the outer door seal. I don't see any way around that, and believe me - if your car is anything like mine, trying to peel it up will just leave a bunch of tears and it won't go back together properly.

- Look out for removing the upper seatbelt mounting bolt. It screws into a large plastic piece that mounts through the tub and comes through just under the cosmetic side louvers. Mine were spinning in place rather than holding fast to the tub, so I had to remove the side louvers and grip the plastic bit with a pair of slip-joint pliers to get it unscrewed. Good news is you can reattach all of this and make it much easier for next time while you're in there. Just a bit of a PITA.

- Run new speaker wire while you're back there. It's enough of a pain in the butt that it's worth doing right the first time :)

- Do you need new seatbelts? That's a "while you're in there" addition to this job.

Post some pics when you do 'em! :)

[1batt4u]

So I am looking for a real good set of speakers!!! What do you all have and/or recommend??

Thank you!!

[TTait]

So I am looking for a real good set of speakers!!! What do you all have and/or recommend??

Thank you!!

See my post #14 on page 2 of this thread.

Note if you have the original dash you will need some coupling nuts to install the fronts, read through the posts from the past week or so to sea a source for those nuts.

[sdg3205]

See my post #14 on page 2 of this thread.

Note if you have the original dash you will need some coupling nuts to install the fronts, read through the posts from the past week or so to sea a source for those nuts.

+1 on the Infinity products. Get them from Amazon, best prices - or so I've found.

I didn't use coupling nuts on my front speakers, I bent the tabs up and out along a seam, and they installed beautifully. It's a DeLorean, maybe 3205 has freakishly long studs.

[sdg3205]

Some pictures of my install here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?657-The-Resurrection-of-3205&p=13381#post13381).

Did you guys end up putting foam around the speaker against the panel or use the cover that came with the speaker UNDER the panel?

I don't want to have to take it apart again later.

Cheers!

[TTait]

Some pictures of my install here (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?657-The-Resurrection-of-3205&p=13381#post13381).

Did you guys end up putting foam around the speaker against the panel or use the cover that came with the speaker UNDER the panel?

I don't want to have to take it apart again later.

Cheers!

I didn't and I'm still happy

[1batt4u]

Thanks guys!!! :smile:

[1batt4u]

See my post #14 on page 2 of this thread.

Note if you have the original dash you will need some coupling nuts to install the fronts, read through the posts from the past week or so to sea a source for those nuts.

Just wanted to say a big huge thank you for the speakers!!!! I placed an order, and received them today. Tested them on my double-din navigation radio, not installed yet. They are amazing!! Super crisp clear sound!!!

Thanks again!!!

[TTait]

Just wanted to say a big huge thank you for the speakers!!!! I placed an order, and received them today. Tested them on my double-din navigation radio, not installed yet. They are amazing!! Super crisp clear sound!!!

Thanks again!!!

Its weird for me now to have decent sound in the car, for 6 years I'd rarely turn on the stereo as it was depressing to listen to.

Have fun!

[jawn101]

I just put the Infinity 329cf in my passenger side dashboard, and I am pleased to report for anyone who finds this thread later that thanks to the design of this particular speaker, it can be installed into the original dash without the need for coupling nuts or other hassle-ry. The trick is to bend the ears into a dog-leg shape - start right where the tab comes out of the basket and bend it sharply vertical. Then bend the remainder of the tab so it's horizontal (there are perforations in the tab for this). That should put the horizontal install surface at just the right length to get 2 or 3 turns out of your nyloc nut on the OEM dash studs. Feels very sturdy to me.

Note: you may have to remove the washer that used to sit between the speaker and the dash to make this work. They are fairly thick and might prevent you from threading the nut.

[sdg3205]

I just put the Infinity 329cf in my passenger side dashboard, and I am pleased to report for anyone who finds this thread later that thanks to the design of this particular speaker, it can be installed into the original dash without the need for coupling nuts or other hassle-ry. The trick is to bend the ears into a dog-leg shape - start right where the tab comes out of the basket and bend it sharply vertical. Then bend the remainder of the tab so it's horizontal (there are perforations in the tab for this). That should put the horizontal install surface at just the right length to get 2 or 3 turns out of your nyloc nut on the OEM dash studs. Feels very sturdy to me.

Note: you may have to remove the washer that used to sit between the speaker and the dash to make this work. They are fairly thick and might prevent you from threading the nut.

Exactly what i did.

[Kenny_Z]

I'm installing a set right now, thank you for the how-to. I was just about to change to run down to Lowes to see if I could cobble together a bracket.

[Jonathan]

I'm coming a little late to this thread... but going to upgrade my sound system soon. I have not bought anything yet... but my main first question is: any advice, tips, or tricks for installing the DMCH DIN bracket? Is there a how-to available? Mainly looking for how to take everything apart and put it back together without breaking a bunch of stuff (centre vents, HVAC panel, etc.). Then I'll chime back in about speakers and decks ;) (I currently am rocking the Craig radio with no sound coming out of the fronts and occassional sound coming out of the rears).

[sdg3205]

I'm just going to throw this out there.

I know people like to upgrade their decks/heads and that's completely cool with me.

I specialize is sound (http://www.stevedavegraham.com/), specifically music - tracking, recording, mixing etc.

I've honestly found that the original Craig deck - when using new speakers - is just awesome.

Sure, the craig speakers are crap, but I honestly recommend keeping the deck.

Here's what you need to do:

Installed new Infinity Kappa 3.29 and 5.29 speakers and an 8" Infinity sub.

If you have a treble boost on the speakers themselves (if you use other speakers), put it on. You're going to loose a few decibels of high end once their covered. Low frequencies can pass through objects very easily. You can always turn the treble down later if you find it's a little bright.

The sub amp is a Pioneer GM-7500M. I set the sub's LPF (low pass filter) for around 90Hz and turned up the gain to a pretty decent level. I stole the feed from the front left and right speakers for it. Yes, this means the fade will affect sub level (hence the additional gain if I want more rear speakers). If you're like me though, you keep the fade dead centre in the car.

On the stereo, keep "Loud" off, you'll never need it again.

Choose a song that represents your usual listening preference. This will be the song you adjust your mix for.

Turn it on. If you're using an iPod with a FM transmitter (HIGHLY recommended), make sure your EQ is flat and you've got good reception allowing for stereo sound.

With the doors closed, set the volume for a comfortable listening level - check balance and fade. Now start with the bass all the way down on the Craig, gradually turn it up until the song "feels" right to you (this is subjective of course).

Adjust treble to taste.

This should provide the best possible sound. The issue with the Craig isn't sound quality - it still provides the human hearing range of 20Hz to 20kHz like any other deck - it's power. Without a sub, it's plain ineffective, especially because chances are your new speakers require more driver wattage. Since our ears require more amplitude to hear bass, we end up pushing the new speakers (if there is NO sub) to the point at which they start to break up due to lack of power.

WITH a sub, we actually listen to the stereo at a lower volume because we're not pushing the deck for more bass, which is coming from a separate amp for the sub.

With a sub, the original Craig deck is as good for listening quality and volume as my new(er) car and aftermarket deck. To be honest, I'm blown away at what it is capable of - it just needed a little love!

Hey, keeping the deck is one more thing to keep original if your that kind of person (like me!).

If you're planning an upgrade and your still undecided, start with speakers, then reconsider on the deck after a good listen.

[dvonk]

...With a sub, the original Craig deck is as good for listening quality and volume as my new(er) car and aftermarket deck. To be honest, I'm blown away at what it is capable of - it just needed a little love!

Hey, keeping the deck is one more thing to keep original if your that kind of person (like me!).

If you're planning an upgrade and your still undecided, start with speakers, then reconsider on the deck after a good listen.

nice! im glad to know this is a viable option. i was hoping to do something of this nature when i get my D... thanks for the write up! :headbang:

[robvanderveer]

I'm just going to throw this out there.

I know people like to upgrade their decks/heads and that's completely cool with me.

I specialize is sound (http://www.stevedavegraham.com/), specifically music - tracking, recording, mixing etc.

...

Thank you very much for writing this down. A lot of people (like me) have no idea how to setup a system, just buy expensive parts, and turn it way too loud. I've done the hardware today to install a 8" sub in the compartment. I don't have the right wires yet to finish installation, but i am definitely following your advice on the fine-tuning bits.

[jawn101]

Did you guys have to do anythin special to prep the compartment for a sub, or just get a spare door, cut a hole and go to town? Where did you run the amp power from?

[robvanderveer]

Did you guys have to do anythin special to prep the compartment for a sub, or just get a spare door, cut a hole and go to town? Where did you run the amp power from?

Basically, as you said. Just got a bit of strong wood panel, cut a round hole, apply carpeting, screw down sub, etc. The amp is a different part of the installation, it needs to be powered straight from the battery, or in my case, the cutoff switch.

[sdg3205]

Did you guys have to do anythin special to prep the compartment for a sub, or just get a spare door, cut a hole and go to town? Where did you run the amp power from?

Yup, nothing special.

You can get particle board or MDF and cut it to size. Originally that was my plan, but because my storage compartment door was pretty haggard and broken I just used it (it was on the list for replacement anyway).

Porting the door will also effect your level by as much as 5-7dB (porting allowing for more amplitude) but you're looking at a difference above 100dB (102dB vs 110dB perhaps). If you like it REALLY loud, it's something to think about.

And as Rob said, the amp is powered off the battery with an in-line fuse (60 amps give or take depending on the set up). I also put mine on the cut off switch for safety and reliability purposes. When I turn that switch off, I want to know there is no power running anywhere in my car.

[aryx]

Hi Dave,

I've ordered the same setup as you have and I'm thinking about placing my amp like you have.
Could you tell me a little about your wireing? Where do you run the cables? Where have you connected the earth cable?
I havn't received my car yet, it leaves USA on the 28th, but want to be prepared on how to do it =)


I'm just going to throw this out there.

I know people like to upgrade their decks/heads and that's completely cool with me.

I specialize is sound (http://www.stevedavegraham.com/), specifically music - tracking, recording, mixing etc.

I've honestly found that the original Craig deck - when using new speakers - is just awesome.

Sure, the craig speakers are crap, but I honestly recommend keeping the deck.

Here's what you need to do:

Installed new Infinity Kappa 3.29 and 5.29 speakers and an 8" Infinity sub.

If you have a treble boost on the speakers themselves (if you use other speakers), put it on. You're going to loose a few decibels of high end once their covered. Low frequencies can pass through objects very easily. You can always turn the treble down later if you find it's a little bright.

The sub amp is a Pioneer GM-7500M. I set the sub's LPF (low pass filter) for around 90Hz and turned up the gain to a pretty decent level. I stole the feed from the front left and right speakers for it. Yes, this means the fade will affect sub level (hence the additional gain if I want more rear speakers). If you're like me though, you keep the fade dead centre in the car.

On the stereo, keep "Loud" off, you'll never need it again.

Choose a song that represents your usual listening preference. This will be the song you adjust your mix for.

Turn it on. If you're using an iPod with a FM transmitter (HIGHLY recommended), make sure your EQ is flat and you've got good reception allowing for stereo sound.

With the doors closed, set the volume for a comfortable listening level - check balance and fade. Now start with the bass all the way down on the Craig, gradually turn it up until the song "feels" right to you (this is subjective of course).

Adjust treble to taste.

This should provide the best possible sound. The issue with the Craig isn't sound quality - it still provides the human hearing range of 20Hz to 20kHz like any other deck - it's power. Without a sub, it's plain ineffective, especially because chances are your new speakers require more driver wattage. Since our ears require more amplitude to hear bass, we end up pushing the new speakers (if there is NO sub) to the point at which they start to break up due to lack of power.

WITH a sub, we actually listen to the stereo at a lower volume because we're not pushing the deck for more bass, which is coming from a separate amp for the sub.

With a sub, the original Craig deck is as good for listening quality and volume as my new(er) car and aftermarket deck. To be honest, I'm blown away at what it is capable of - it just needed a little love!

Hey, keeping the deck is one more thing to keep original if your that kind of person (like me!).

If you're planning an upgrade and your still undecided, start with speakers, then reconsider on the deck after a good listen.

[sdg3205]

Hi Dave,

I've ordered the same setup as you have and I'm thinking about placing my amp like you have.
Could you tell me a little about your wireing? Where do you run the cables? Where have you connected the earth cable?
I havn't received my car yet, it leaves USA on the 28th, but want to be prepared on how to do it =)

No problem! Bare in mind this is just one way to do it and I'm no Best Buy installation expert.

1. It's best to buy a complete kit with the correct gauge wiring that the amp manufacturer recommends. This information will be in the users manual.

Assuming you've completed step one and have a kit, here's what I did:

POWER

2. Power is connected right to the positive terminal on the battery. Well, kind of. I use a battery cut off switch and the power is connected to the switched side so the amp dies with the rest of the car when I need to kill power. Ensure power is disconnected during the procedure.

My amp automatically turns off if signal is not detected, so my battery doesn't die. Double check yours will do the same.

3. Fuse the power cable.

The kit should come with the correct size fuse, but it wont be installed. I ran my power cable into the relay compartment so the 60A fuse would hang out with all it's little buddies.

4. Run the power cable up under the center console. You can remove the ash tray and shift plate to ensure routing.

5. With ample cable, push the power cable through the trunk release cable grommet.

6. Let the cable hang out in the trunk for now.

GROUND

7. One of the rivnuts on my fuel pump access panel was toast, so i drilled it out and ran the ground cable through it.

8. Under the body, retrieve the cable you pushed through and bolt it onto the radiator support bracket on the passenger side.

SIGNAL TO AMP

You need a stereo signal which the amp will sum to mono and maintain phase for the sub.

9. Using Scotchlock (http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Blue+Scotchlok+Connectors&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1676&bih=930&tbm=isch&tbnid=SHej8Eftdw7aZM:&imgrefurl=http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/3M-054007-20090-/108-005&docid=pYSLtcX8dmKcrM&imgurl=http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/productimages/s3/4015685.jpg&w=200&h=191&ei=2aakTsyGC8Lq0gHbwei5BA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=310&sig=100455626493022559621&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=135&start=0&ndsp=43&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=67&ty=64) connectors, steal the positive and negative signal from both the left and right front speaker and run the cable back through the trunk cable grommet.

My kit had RCA connectors on both ends. I left the RCA connectors on one end to connect to the amp, but on the end that got spliced I had to cut them off and manually extract the positive and negative wires.

SIGNAL TO SUB

10. Run the signal wire through the same grommet and then back down the center console to the storage compartment.

11. You'll need some female spade connectors. Attach these to the positive and negative on the wire. These will attach to the male spade connections on the sub itself.

HOOK UP AMP

12. Center the amp in the spare tire well and place two washers under each screw location. make sure the spare won't hit it.

13. Mark screw locations

14. Pre drill screw holes

15. Add 2 washers back under each screw to give the amp a little heigh. Now if any water makes its way down there, it wont soak the amp.

16. Screw down amp

17. All your wires in the trunk need to be adapted to the amp. Some might need spade connectors, RCA, etc etc so go ahead and prep these and attach them to the amp.

MOUNT SUB

I have no idea how to cut the hole for the sub. I had a pro cut it out. The sub just screws in after.

Now just follow the set-up instructions i posted above for level setting and you're good to go!

[aryx]

Thanks for the extremly detailed info, should now be a walk in the park =) Some parts have arrived, got the wrong size sub, so need to find the correct one.

62776276


No problem! Bare in mind this is just one way to do it and I'm no Best Buy installation expert.

1. It's best to buy a complete kit with the correct gauge wiring that the amp manufacturer recommends. This information will be in the users manual.

Assuming you've completed step one and have a kit, here's what I did:

POWER

2. Power is connected right to the positive terminal on the battery. Well, kind of. I use a battery cut off switch and the power is connected to the switched side so the amp dies with the rest of the car when I need to kill power. Ensure power is disconnected during the procedure.

My amp automatically turns off if signal is not detected, so my battery doesn't die. Double check yours will do the same.

3. Fuse the power cable.

The kit should come with the correct size fuse, but it wont be installed. I ran my power cable into the relay compartment so the 60A fuse would hang out with all it's little buddies.

4. Run the power cable up under the center console. You can remove the ash tray and shift plate to ensure routing.

5. With ample cable, push the power cable through the trunk release cable grommet.

6. Let the cable hang out in the trunk for now.

GROUND

7. One of the rivnuts on my fuel pump access panel was toast, so i drilled it out and ran the ground cable through it.

8. Under the body, retrieve the cable you pushed through and bolt it onto the radiator support bracket on the passenger side.

SIGNAL TO AMP

You need a stereo signal which the amp will sum to mono and maintain phase for the sub.

9. Using Scotchlock (http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=Blue+Scotchlok+Connectors&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1676&bih=930&tbm=isch&tbnid=SHej8Eftdw7aZM:&imgrefurl=http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/3M-054007-20090-/108-005&docid=pYSLtcX8dmKcrM&imgurl=http://www.mcmelectronics.com/content/productimages/s3/4015685.jpg&w=200&h=191&ei=2aakTsyGC8Lq0gHbwei5BA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=310&sig=100455626493022559621&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=135&start=0&ndsp=43&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=67&ty=64) connectors, steal the positive and negative signal from both the left and right front speaker and run the cable back through the trunk cable grommet.

My kit had RCA connectors on both ends. I left the RCA connectors on one end to connect to the amp, but on the end that got spliced I had to cut them off and manually extract the positive and negative wires.

SIGNAL TO SUB

10. Run the signal wire through the same grommet and then back down the center console to the storage compartment.

11. You'll need some female spade connectors. Attach these to the positive and negative on the wire. These will attach to the male spade connections on the sub itself.

HOOK UP AMP

12. Center the amp in the spare tire well and place two washers under each screw location. make sure the spare won't hit it.

13. Mark screw locations

14. Pre drill screw holes

15. Add 2 washers back under each screw to give the amp a little heigh. Now if any water makes its way down there, it wont soak the amp.

16. Screw down amp

17. All your wires in the trunk need to be adapted to the amp. Some might need spade connectors, RCA, etc etc so go ahead and prep these and attach them to the amp.

MOUNT SUB

I have no idea how to cut the hole for the sub. I had a pro cut it out. The sub just screws in after.

Now just follow the set-up instructions i posted above for level setting and you're good to go!

[sdg3205]

Thanks for the extremly detailed info, should now be a walk in the park =) Some parts have arrived, got the wrong size sub, so need to find the correct one.

62776276

You've got a new deck. It's probably got a sub output on the back, which would make things much easier too.

Are those new e-brake and shift boot leathers?

[aryx]

You've got a new deck. It's probably got a sub output on the back, which would make things much easier too.

Are those new e-brake and shift boot leathers?

Yes, I have an amp output for front, back and bass, so it will help =)

Yes, new boots for the shift and e-brake. (bought a custom set from http://redlinegoods.com/Deloreanshiftboot.shtm )

[aludden]

It was mentioned here that 6x9s would fit if the bracket was modified. Anyone here has done it? Is it worth going up in size from the Infinity 5 1/4 to 6x9?

[sdg3205]

It was mentioned here that 6x9s would fit if the bracket was modified. Anyone here has done it? Is it worth going up in size from the Infinity 5 1/4 to 6x9?

Perhaps, if you're NOT adding a sub. Otherwise you won't notice much difference.

.75 in won't produce significantly larger waveforms (for bass).

[aludden]

Perhaps, if you're NOT adding a sub. Otherwise you won't notice much difference.

.75 in won't produce significantly larger waveforms (for bass).

Well, it's .75" in one direction, but 3.75" in the other... (ovals as opposed to round)

[aludden]

And you can get a 3-way in a 6x9, if that makes any difference.

I don't plan to add a sub, just replace the radio with a Sony or JVC head unit @50W/ch.
I just want to do something nice and good, without adding a lot of extras ($$$).
There isn't much price difference between the 5 1/4 and 6x9, so if that's better I am willing to do that.

[aludden]

According to a formula I just found, a 6x9 oval is almost twice as large as a 5 1/4 circle... :-)

[TTait]

I first had pyramid 4X10s - they sounded pretty bad. I tried some infinity 6X9's, they sounded... better - but I immediately packed them up and got the 529's, and they sounded a lot better.

A round speaker is going to provide better quality sound than an oval shaped speaker, but the oval may be able to handle more power. If you want fidelity, get the round ones, they handle the power just fine. If you want it really really loud, get the 6X9s, but don't expect it to sound as smooth at reasonable volume levels.

Think of it this way - virtually every concert speaker, every theater loudspeaker, the monitor speakers in recording studios - all quality speakers are round. I'm sure someone here can point out an exception - but when I got to spend close to a million on a sound system, every speaker in the building was round, except the ones in the video monitors, and those were turned off.

If your not sure, buy both and take one set back...

[aludden]

I first had pyramid 4X10s - they sounded pretty bad. I tried some infinity 6X9's, they sounded... better - but I immediately packed them up and got the 529's, and they sounded a lot better.
[...]


Cool! Thank you! That was the kind of answer I was looking for. I guess bigger isn't always better. I will order the 529s.

Alex

[sdg3205]

Well, it's .75" in one direction, but 3.75" in the other... (ovals as opposed to round)

Very true! But wave forms aren't oval shaped, which is why a smaller circular speaker will produce a more "true" bass frequency then slightly larger oval shaped cones. The speaker can only produce frequencies as low as the size of the speaker and distance it moves back and forth will allow.

Ah, but what about headphones you ask?! Headphones and ear buds trick our brains by only providing upper order harmonics, leaving our brains to "assume" there must be the fundamental frequency (the bass note). Our brains fill in the gaps.

The more you know (insert colorful rainbow)!

[aludden]

I just placed the order for the 529s and 329s.

Thank you all!
Alex

[yellowmxwheels23]

Just had the speakers changed out and I got Kenwood for the back and JL audio for the fronts. Sounds a lot better now.

[SamHill]

The more you know (insert colorful rainbow)!

http://www.familyguyfiles.com/epimages/images.php?v=1ACX06-The-Son-Also-Draws.avi_001270812&t=stewie-griffin-the-more-you-know

[mluder]

You won't be disapointed - they sound nice.
I'm still considering a small sub for the storage compartment. The one that DMC Cali sells looks promising but I wonder if I could do it cheaper myself?

Steve


I just placed the order for the 529s and 329s.

Thank you all!
Alex

[Jimmycxc]

Just got the Infinity Kappa 329's for the front. Planning on installing them this weekend.

[aludden]

OK, I am trying to install the Kappa 529i. However, there doesn't seem to be room to put the front cover and seal behind the panel.
1. Did you modify the bracket so they sit more in the middle?
2. Did you fill-in the rest of the holes in the panel so that the rear is essentially sealed? I thought you need that in order to get good bass.

Thanks!
Alex

[sdg3205]

OK, I am trying to install the Kappa 529i. However, there doesn't seem to be room to put the front cover and seal behind the panel.
1. Did you modify the bracket so they sit more in the middle?
2. Did you fill-in the rest of the holes in the panel so that the rear is essentially sealed? I thought you need that in order to get good bass.

Thanks!
Alex

Hey Alex,

I wouldn't worry about the front cover and seal. They aren't going to fit! You don't need them since our panels are vented and protecting them anyway.

Don't fill in the holes!

Cheers

[mluder]

+1

It will at first appear that the panel won't go back on but I assure you with propper motivation it will fit.

Cheers.
Steve

Hey Alex,

I wouldn't worry about the front cover and seal. They aren't going to fit! You don't need them since our panels are vented and protecting them anyway.

Don't fill in the holes!

Cheers

[TTait]

+1

When I tried some 6X9s I drilled a new hole in at least one side so the brackets could relocate, but used the stock holes for the 529 units. The cover just goes in over them without the foam.

[aryx]

You can see the line in the carpet where the cover goes, I had no clearance issues.
7655
7654

[aludden]

OK! They're in and wired with new 14GA wire. I also wired the new radio and everything works fine!

Not much bass, though. I hope that improves when I put the panels back in.

[jawn101]

Probably won't, sadly... but that's why there's a perfect little compartment behind the driver's seat for a subwoofer! :)

Congrats on the new system!

[aludden]

Rear speakers need to have the panels reinstalled if you want to hear what they sound like properly.

The A/B test of Pyramid 4 X10 vs Alpine 6 X 9 is not valid unless you reinstalled the panels.

For a speaker to have any low frequency response, the font of the speaker must be isolated from the rear of the speaker. The entire concept of how the speaker works is by small changes in air pressure. If the front and back are in the same "air space" then it will sound like crap, no matter the size or quality of the speaker.

In the DMC, the cover panel is what controls the air between the front and back of the speaker. For better sound, add some weather strip foam around the speaker to get a better seal against the panel.

I was re-reading all the posts in the thread, and Malevy's comment above says what I'm talking about as well. I will see if I can figure out how to close the air space around the speakers. My existing 4x10s had some insulation around the front edge (maybe added by the PO?). That won't work in this case because the lip is so small.

[aludden]

Probably won't, sadly... but that's why there's a perfect little compartment behind the driver's seat for a subwoofer! :)

Congrats on the new system!

Thank you!

At this point I don't want to spend more money on it. May be a future project. I actually hardly ever listen to the radio, I mostly wanted to get rid of the old Kraco radio I had there :-)

[aludden]

Well, in my quest to provide better separation between the back and the front of the speakers, this is what I did:
I took the mounting rings for the grille that came with the speakers and cut the bottom edge flush with the carpet, since the speaker sits on the carpet. I then attached the ring to the speaker with 4 machine screws and nuts. I put it backwards so I could have a flat surface in the front:
7687
Since the speaker sits on an angle compared to the panel, I will get some foam insulation and glue it to the front of this ring to provide a seal.
For the panels, I had some black foam core, and I cut a triangle to fit the shape of the panel, and then cut a circle for the speaker. I glued the foam core to the panel so that it covers the holes:
76887685

Hopefully, this will help! I won't know until I am able to put it all back together. Of course, this is not a prefect seal, since we have the hole for the seat belt right next to it. But at least I feel I tried :-)

Meanwhile, I found a "present" from the PO: The driver side armrest piece that is attached to the panel was shattered, and screwed back in. Since this is no longer available, I will see about repairing it somehow. The vinyl had a tear and it always looked awry, so now I know why.

[aludden]

Another question - Has anyone tried to mount the speakers below the dashboard, facing toward the seats, instead of the original location?

I am getting my dashboard re-covered, and am concerned about how to make the speaker holes/area look nice. I have not had much luck finding a speaker grille for the 3 1/2" speakers.

So one option would be to cover the holes altogether and mount the speakers below the dash. My dash is taken apart right now, and I don't remember if there was much room down there to make a bracket.

[Iznodmad]

Another question - Has anyone tried to mount the speakers below the dashboard, facing toward the seats, instead of the original location?

No, but I have custom built boxes in the "indentation" of the foot well that help to provide a much more full sound without traveling thru the holes of the dash and rear panels. Both of my DeLoreans have a 7 speaker system utilizing the stock speaker locations, footwell speakers, and a sub box on the parcel shelf.

[aludden]

No, but I have custom built boxes in the "indentation" of the foot well that help to provide a much more full sound without traveling thru the holes of the dash and rear panels. Both of my DeLoreans have a 7 speaker system utilizing the stock speaker locations, footwell speakers, and a sub box on the parcel shelf.

Wow! That sounds cool! Would you have a picture of where in the footwell they go?

[Iznodmad]

Wow! That sounds cool! Would you have a picture of where in the footwell they go?

Yes, but it will have to wait until tonight. Using work computer now and all my pics are at home on a different computer.

[Iznodmad]

Footwell speakers......and sub-box on parcel shelf.

[TTait]

Footwell speaker enclosures are available from DMC-CA...

[jawn101]

Footwell speaker enclosures are available from DMC-CA...

As are subwoofer enclosures that fit in your locking compartment :)

See http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2629-CA-DMC-Subwoofer-question

[aludden]

Footwell speakers......and sub-box on parcel shelf.

O, wow! Beautiful job! Thanks for sharing!

Alex

[Notifier]

Footwell speakers......and sub-box on parcel shelf.

What size speakers did you use in the footwells?

[Iznodmad]

What size speakers did you use in the footwells?

I don't remember exactly, but 5.5 inch sounds familiar. I didn't do the work myself, I had a local high end stereo/tint place do the work. I'd measure them for you, but that particular car I posted pics of is at DPI currently. I do remember the sub is a 10 JL audio. I have a sub mounted beneath the pass seat.

[Notifier]

I don't remember exactly, but 5.5 inch sounds familiar. I didn't do the work myself, I had a local high end stereo/tint place do the work. I'd measure them for you, but that particular car I posted pics of is at DPI currently. I do remember the sub is a 10 JL audio. I have a sub mounted beneath the pass seat.

That's ok, I was just wondering. I like the idea of the speakers in the footwell. I am in the process of replacing 100% of the audio system and wasn't looking forward to dealing with trying to cram my hands in underneath the dash to deal with front speakers. I've already determined I'm going to abandon the rear speakers and place new rears on the parcel shelf.

But I'm thinking 4" rounds will work in the front footwell position, going to try to build the enclosures myself.

[sadeeky]

Just installed the Kicker 4x10's in the rear, and for the size speaker they are, they actually sound awesome. Nice kick and bass. Plus it drowns out the engine noise quite nicely. Which are these:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Kicker+-+4%22+x+10%22+Coaxial+Speakers+with+Polypropylene+ Cones+%28Pair%29+-+Graphite/2304195.p?id=1218320079427&skuId=2304195&st=kicker%20speaker%204x10&cp=1&lp=15

In the front's I did Kicker 3.5", also amazing sound.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Kicker+-+3-1/2%22+Coaxial+Speakers+with+Polypropylene+Cones+%28 Pair%29+-+Graphite/2304229.p?id=1218320820479&skuId=2304229&st=kicker%20&cp=1&lp=11

And for the deck, I chose Alpine with Pandora Sync. so everytime that I get in the car, the radio automatically syncs up to Pandora. Has USB connectivity, IPOD, AUX Input, CD

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Alpine+-+50W+x+4+Apple%26%23174%3B+iPod%26%23174%3B-/Satellite+Radio-Ready+In-Dash+CD+Deck/1934032.p?id=1218322059298&skuId=1934032&st=alpine%20radio&cp=1&lp=4

Did you need to power the speakers with an amp to get good bass or they really don't need it to get some good bass?

[sdg3205]

A speakers frequency range is constant. Unfortunately if you want decent bass you'll need a sub. 4x10s don't throw much below 150hz

[dtjk592]

There must be some original speakers around here. Does anyone have original Craig front speakers around in decent shape my front right speaker died apparently voice coil as the paper is still in perfect shape. I'd like to keep the sound system stock so if anyone has a stock Craig front speaker they pulled lying in their parts box shoot me a message id definitely be interested.

[jfirios]

the foot well molds from DMC are for 6 in rounds. I have a set that i am waiting to install myself but have so much more to install first. Finally got the competition system in and am laying out all the components now. 15 speakers going in. So very excited.

[Lukas]

I'll be inspecting and ? replacing my rear speakers soon. As part of getting 4322 registered here, we have to re-certify the seatbelts. So with the rear trim panel off I'll likely put some new speakers in.

BUT I've been unable to find 4 x 10 speakers in Australia. And even 4 x 6 speakers are very hard to find.

So, I've ordered the Kicker set from the US. Even with UPS shipping (need them soon!) it still ends up being the same price as a set of 4 x 6 speakers over here.

[TTait]

I'll be inspecting and ? replacing my rear speakers soon. As part of getting 4322 registered here, we have to re-certify the seatbelts. So with the rear trim panel off I'll likely put some new speakers in.

BUT I've been unable to find 4 x 10 speakers in Australia. And even 4 x 6 speakers are very hard to find.

So, I've ordered the Kicker set from the US. Even with UPS shipping (need them soon!) it still ends up being the same price as a set of 4 x 6 speakers over here.

Did you consider the infinity 529 outlined previously in this thread - re-read - you may be able to get it locally, and perhaps cheaper. Remember its the middle of the night in the US, you order may not have shipped yet.

[Lukas]

That's why I ordered today so hopefully they will ship on Monday US time.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I also couldn't find the Infinity speakers over here. Seems like the sound quality is better but I would like to stay with the stock size.

I'll get around to doing the fronts eventually.

This is a last minute decision to change them while the panels are off and they are easy to access. Would really like to get it registered and there are some other upgrades to do first.

[sadeeky]

Does any one know if you need an amp for the A7100113 Speaker Stereo Base Unit that DMC Cal sells?

see Link

http://www.dmccal.com/a7100113_speaker_stereo_base_unit.html

[jawn101]

Does any one know if you need an amp for the A7100113 Speaker Stereo Base Unit that DMC Cal sells?

see Link

http://www.dmccal.com/a7100113_speaker_stereo_base_unit.html

Yes, you do.

[dvonk]

A7100113 Speaker Stereo Base Unit

all your bass are belong to us.

[mluder]

all your bass are belong to us.

+1

[sadeeky]

Im thinking about putting in a 50W 8inch Bazooka powered sub behind the seat. What is everyones thoughts?

[jawn101]

Im thinking about putting in a 50W 8inch Bazooka powered sub behind the seat. What is everyones thoughts?

Are the Bazooka brand all still those powered forward-firing tubes? I don't think you'll have room to mount it properly - if you configure it to fire sideways I think you'll end up with disappointing sound quality.

[dmc3130]

I agree with Jawn, The bazooka tubes are better for trunk installations. The 8" compartment sub with a seperate amp mounted in the luggage area is the route that I went. Love the sound, not too crazy but full. You do need a head unit that can manipulate the fequencies that go to the seperate speakers. I.E. highs to the front, low mids and mids to the rear and 120 hz and lower to the sub. All can be done from the head unit if you get the right one.

9116

[DMCMW Dave]

Im thinking about putting in a 50W 8inch Bazooka powered sub behind the seat. What is everyones thoughts?

You better have about 24-inch legs.

[AdmiralSenn]

Im thinking about putting in a 50W 8inch Bazooka powered sub behind the seat. What is everyones thoughts?

My car came with a Bazooka Tube installed. I ditched it almost immediately.

When it deigned to work at all, it was "meh" at best. And it took up a massive portion of the rear parcel shelf.

I'd go with the storage compartment sub idea if you have to have bass in the car.

[sadeeky]

I went ahead and installed it anyway, and I am impressed it sounds great. I went with the 50W sub not overpowering at all. Its just enough bass and it also looks amazing in the back. You cant even tell its a speaker unit back there and there is still room. I have got some reviews about putting a sub in the back cubby and when the bass hits it shakes the driver seat. Add that with engine vibrations its just too much. Putting the Sub in the Luggage compartment not only cuts down on the seat vibration but is really clear and you get that deep bass feel.

[1batt4u]

I was wondering, instead of putting the front speakers, small speakers, in the small space of the dash, can bigger ones be used and mount them directly under the fiberglass part of the dash?

[dmc6960]

I was wondering, instead of putting the front speakers, small speakers, in the small space of the dash, can bigger ones be used and mount them directly under the fiberglass part of the dash?

You can do this with 4" speakers, probably not any larger.

[1batt4u]

You can do this with 4" speakers, probably not any larger.

Cool! Thanx!!!

[elfking]

I just installed these infinity's (front dash) which people were saying didn't fit in an original dash as well. Some people posted the correct answer of you just have to bend the tabs.. I didn't see any pictures of it, so I thought I would quickly take some before install!
Before:
14301
During: -- Notice as others have said, to the left of the needle nose pliers there is a line which indicates where to fold them accordingly.
14300
After:
14302

Then install! On my driver side speaker, at a perfect 90 for the ear it would fit on one stud but not the other, so I slightly bent it away from the speaker and it went right in... likely an error when I first bent it, or slightly bent stud who knows.. fits great and sounds better then the stock speakers.

Next step is the rears once I figure out how to get behind those panels! Hope someone finds the visuals useful.

[refugeefromcalif]

Thanks for the pics!

I'm going to order some of these ASAP. (Well, sometime Soon)... :)

George

[cybercusp]

Thanks for the pics!

I'm going to order some of these ASAP. (Well, sometime Soon)... :)

George

Youre going with the Infinity's George?

[mluder]

I just installed these infinity's (front dash) which people were saying didn't fit in an original dash as well. Some people posted the correct answer of you just have to bend the tabs.. I didn't see any pictures of it, so I thought I would quickly take some before install!

Agreed... I was the one who cautioned they might not fit but I was wrong. I too bent the tabs and they fit just fine.

Cheers
Steven

[refugeefromcalif]

Youre going with the Infinity's George?

Yep. They seem to have some good reviews here.

George

[cybercusp]

Yep. They seem to have some good reviews here.

George

I've installed them. I don't think the highs are bad. Front ones were a snap to install. Still waiting on the sub from DMCCa.

[dmruschell]

Even though this thread hasn't had any activity in almost 2 months, I figured this would be the best place to post the results if my stereo upgrade.

I'm an audio engineer and have found that Polk speakers sound best to my ear, so I was hoping to put all polk speakers (minus the sub) in my D. I had 2 of their db351s laying around, so I installed them in the dash. I bent the tabs because their tweeter sticks up and I have an original dash. After I installed them, I found that one was blown. So I ordered a pair of their DXi 350s with the intent of replacing both speakers. However, the speakers are virtually identical and it was a huge PITA, so I left the good db in the front right and replaced the blown front left speaker. I also mounted the new front left speaker to the fiberglass. That was much easier than messing with the studs.

For the rears, I saw on this thread that infinity 5.25 inch speakers fit. Polk doesn't make a 4x10, but they do make a 5.25 speaker. So I ordered their DXi 525 and just finished installing them. They fit just fine, no problems (in my car at least). I didn't add any foam or anything for better bass, as I have a sub.

I ordered one of the dmc-ca sub boxes. It came with the pioneer sub (Danny said they were also available with a kicker sub). I had to mangle the pie elf metal that helped lock the compartment door in order to get the sub in, but that wasn't a big deal.

Wih proper tuning, this setup sounds really good.

The headunit I used is the kenwood kdc-x996. It has variable high pass filters for the front and rear, and low pass for the sub. The front and rears are being driven off of the head unit (don't need a lot of wattage if there's a sub). This headunit also has a 13 band graphic eq. Out of the 5 cars my girlfriend and I have that are old (our two Ds being the newest) with upgraded stereos, I've found that they either need a graphic eq (more bands the better) or an amp with filters and bass boosts to sound balanced. Both is best, but not always needed. This head unit has all the tuning options I could ever want.

Our other (my girlfriend's) D is a Houston build with their alpine stereo with the genesis 5 channel amp. I tuned that would to sound balanced using the genesis amp, as the Alpine head unit didn't have a lot of advanced features. The system I installed sounds at least as good as my girlfriend's without having to use an external amp on all speakers for processing (less $$). The amp I used on my sub has a variable 40hz boost, which is good to compensate for the small size of the sub.

Anyways, I hope this benefits someone at some point. I can't speak highly enough about the head unit i used and polk speakers in general.

[jfirios]

That is what i have been preaching about for a while. Most people laughed at me when i said i installed a 1000 watt 15 speaker system in my d with a 10 IN sub in the cubby hole. Thats too much bass they scoffed. I say it is all about the balancing of the system and the sound separation you will get with the crossovers and controls at both the HU, pre amp eq and the bass volume controls. Not to mention the extended controls to balance out the sound from the amp itself.
My system with all the dynamatting sounds amazing at low volume. You can ear every instrument when playing classical or jazz. (Probably some of the best music to use when testing or tuning systems)
Even the head owner of DMC sat in my car and was amazed at the sound clarity and the separation of the sound without it being overwhelming in that small compartment.

[dmruschell]

That is what i have been preaching about for a while. Most people laughed at me when i said i installed a 1000 watt 15 speaker system in my d with a 10 IN sub in the cubby hole. Thats too much bass they scoffed. I say it is all about the balancing of the system and the sound separation you will get with the crossovers and controls at both the HU, pre amp eq and the bass volume controls. Not to mention the extended controls to balance out the sound from the amp itself.
My system with all the dynamatting sounds amazing at low volume. You can ear every instrument when playing classical or jazz. (Probably some of the best music to use when testing or tuning systems)
Even the head owner of DMC sat in my car and was amazed at the sound clarity and the separation of the sound without it being overwhelming in that small compartment.

After a little while with the system, my only real complaint is that the frequency response of the sub doesn't go as low as I'd like, and rolls off pretty quickly.

If the frequency response of a system is fairly even (with bass/treble boosts to taste), it will sound great at low volumes, but also not sound harsh at high volumes. It will surround the listener at high volumes and put them in the middle of musical bliss.

Systems only sound bad when the frequency response is uneven, with certain small frequency ranges being louder than others. When you turn it up loud, it starts to hurt the listener's ears before it really does get loud, because the louder frequencies are hurting the listener's ears before the sound as a whole is as loud as the listener wants. Distortion can also make the sound harsh.

The key to good sound is clean amplification that is powerful enough to drive the speakers (with high pass filters, less power is needed for midrange and tweeters, as bass requires more power) and tuning the system to get an even frequency response. It doesn't matter how many or how few speakers or amps a system has; if it doesn't have these qualities to it, it won't sound good.

[sdg3205]

We really need to design a system that uses a bunch of NS-10s and a KRK 15" sub. Now THAT would be bliss. Or KRK E8's as the mains. Mmmmmmm.

[TTait]

The amp I used on my sub has a variable 40hz boost, which is good to compensate for the small size of the sub.


What amp did you choose, and where did you end up mounting it?

[dmruschell]

We really need to design a system that uses a bunch of NS-10s and a KRK 15" sub. Now THAT would be bliss. Or KRK E8's as the mains. Mmmmmmm.

I LOVE my NS-10s. Well mixed albums sound great, but poorly mixed albums sound awful on them. I have HS-80s with a matching sub as my main monitors... I'd love to make a system out of those.

The amp I used is a Sony that my dad bought almost 15 years ago, so I highly doubt that it's still available. I've had good results with Pioneer D class amps (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Car/Amplifiers/GM+Digital+Series), although I haven't used the newest models of the series. They're also usually available for cheap if you know where to look. The mono amps have the 40Hz boost, but I've been able to use the Low Pass filters on the 4 channel to tune a sub (and 6x9s used with the sub) just fine.

I mounted the amp on the rear firewall (although no actual mounting needed) where the DMCH newbuilds have their amps mounted. I just cut out the massive foam in an area big enough for the amp and the connecting cables and it fit in the space the foam was in. It's also easy to connect battery and ground leads to that location without any modifications to the car

[DMC5180]

You know, I just love reading through Audiophile techno-babble. :headscratch:

[sdg3205]

You know, I just love reading through Audiophile techno-babble. :headscratch:

Dennis, we don't often get to babble! But we know sound.

NS10s are the industry standard for monitoring. Flat frequency response. They are no longer being made. The cones are made from a paper derived from an Asian tree that is either extinct or endangered.

The more you know!

But seriously... I'd almost like to take an old dash and customize it with ns10s.

[DMC5180]

Dennis, we don't often get to babble! But we know sound.

NS10s are the industry standard for monitoring. Flat frequency response. They are no longer being made. The cones are made from a paper derived from an Asian tree that is either extinct or endangered.

The more you know!

But seriously... I'd almost like to take an old dash and customize it with ns10s.


Ok, please humor an audiophile illiterate.

What is the long form of the (NS10) acronym? Who makes or made them?

[dmruschell]

Dennis, we don't often get to babble! But we know sound.

NS10s are the industry standard for monitoring. Flat frequency response. They are no longer being made. The cones are made from a paper derived from an Asian tree that is either extinct or endangered.

The more you know!

But seriously... I'd almost like to take an old dash and customize it with ns10s.

Actually, the NS-10s don't have a flat frequency response. It's got a boost in the 1k range that brings out all of the ugliness in a mix. BUT what they do have is the best transient response of any studio monitor ever made, letting the engineer really hear the drum hits, etc. exactly how they should be. I found a paper on them right before I bought them that had waterfall (transient) diagrams and frequency response graphs of the NS-10s and many other popular monitors. (I think the article is found as a pdf in a link in this article http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/articles/yamahans10.htm)

I bought my set off of ebay, and less than a month after getting them, my apartment ceiling caved in from a water leak and sprayed dirty water on my ns-10 cones. I ordered a NEW set of cones from Yamaha. They supposedly stopped making the speaker because they couldn't make the cones any more, yet you can still buy the cones new. Doesn't make any sense.

You could probably mount the ns-10's tweeter in the dash and mount the woofer in the kick panels. I know they make kick panel mounts for 6.5 inch speakers, so you could probably have them made/adapt them for the speakers in the ns-10. The woofers would also probably fit in the back panels, but the transient response probably wouldn't be what it should be. With them being 8 ohm speakers, you'd proably have to wire the front and rear in parallel to drop the ohms down to 4 ohms per side for most car amplifiers. Or, they might make devices that can accomplish this task.

The biggest issue I could forsee is, if you get the original NS-10Ms (not the NS-10M Studio), you'll have to figure out how to mount the tissue paper over the tweeter :D

[Ratrace427]

After many years of messing with retrosound products i ordered a din style console and put in a hd pioneer deck. It was awesome except the retrosound speakers would only handle the very highs of the highs. After dealing with that for a year i ordered some pioneers to go with the stereo before doing any research. It was one of those times where i was to upset to care. I wanted the old speakers gone and i wanted them gone now! I found that the A878's for up front had plastic tabs that could not be bent and the center section sticks up to far for installation. I had to put spacers on the speaker studs under the dash so that the speaker wouldnt try to bust through the dash after being tightened up. The studs are just the right length to do this but the dash still has a very slight bow from the speaker pushing outward or up on the dash. This is a very small bow or bump over the speakers and no one will be able to tell. I would post a pic but i dont think you could tell from the photo either. They sound awesome and i want to drive the car just to listen to the stereo but if there is a speaker produced that is flush to the mounting tabs then i would go with those for much faster and easy instill.

On a side note...the retrosounds had metal tabs that could be bent to lower the mounting surface of the speaker like the infinities. The speakers up front are very easy to instill if the nuts are placed on the studs first. The speaker then can be put over the nuts and then turned and locked into place. After bending the tabs on a speaker this can not be done. It will make the project a ruff one that will make you very angry.

[protodelorean]

For anyone looking to build a set of footwell speaker pods, below is a link to the build photos from mine. (They fit 6" rounds)16088

http://www.projectdelorean.com/images/Kick_Speakers/index.html

Also, another option for rear speakers, if you don't want to disturb the original side panels is the rear speaker panels I manufacture. They support 6x9's and attach using all the original hardware for the factory rear wall. (So no permanent modifications)

1608916090

[kajcienski]

Went back to revisit my sound system options and exploring the addition of DMC Cal footwell speaker units. However, I can't seem to find them (or the sub woofer) on their site... Where are these available? Also another question. How important is it to get a seal between the speaker and the dash? I have about an inch of space as my speakers are mounted on new studs fixed to the fiberglass. Any info would be much appreciated!

[DMCMW Dave]

Went back to revisit my sound system options and exploring the addition of DMC Cal footwell speaker units. However, I can't seem to find them (or the sub woofer) on their site... Where are these available? Also another question. How important is it to get a seal between the speaker and the dash? I have about an inch of space as my speakers are mounted on new studs fixed to the fiberglass. Any info would be much appreciated!

Call DMC California directly - talk to Danny. That is where the kick panel units and the subs come from.

The better the seal the better the bass, not such a big deal on the top speakers.

[kobachi]

Also, another option for rear speakers, if you don't want to disturb the original side panels is the rear speaker panels I manufacture. They support 6x9's and attach using all the original hardware for the factory rear wall. (So no permanent modifications)

Do you have a page about these somewhere?

[protodelorean]

Do you have a page about these somewhere?

I don't at the moment. (It was on the old .com site.) Let me start up another thread so I we don't hi-jack this one.

New thread: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6371-Rear-Speaker-Panels

[kobachi]

So JBL has a new series out; GTO329 replacing GTO328. Can anyone comment on either of these vs. Infinity Kappa 329?

[Jonathan]

This thread has more sequels than a Lucasarts franchise... ;)

Has anyone bent back the tabs on the Kicker 3.5s?

Reason I ask is because they are going in as we speak and I don't have enough thread length to grab the speakers. I measure there to be about 3/8" from the underside of the perforated dash to the tip of the studs. There is a washer in there which is fairly thin all things considered. The Kicker speaker when flat on the table measures about 7/16" from the tabs to the surface of the speaker which would meet the dash. Which is this centre part of the speaker (sorry, not sure of terminology) that juts out further than the outer edge on the circumference of the speaker itself. So even if I get this up in there, I am curious if this centre piece should be pinned right against the underside of the dash?

I feel I would have enough room to play with to get everything in there okay by bending the tabs up. I saw the pics someone posted earlier where you can bend them straight vertical and then horizontal on the second part. The Kickers don't seem to have this notch you've mentioned on the Infinitys, which isn't too much of a problem... except there are these ridges coming out on the first part of each tab on the sides. Can you see that in the photos? You know what I mean? I'm not convinced you can bend up right at the edge of the speaker (the round magnetic part) with these ridges. If I bend straight up where the ridges end, what might be left to bend horizontal may not be enough to slip a bolt through. Would love to know if this can be done or if anyone has photos of doing it. I could try on my own speakers, but I get the feeling if you bend these tabs back and forth a few times they might snap off.

Otherwise, it looks like I could go the route of the extending couplings. Not sure where I would get them in Ontario, but I haven't started looking yet. Any other options?

I will say that ocassionally being 6'3" is rather sucky. Being upside down in the footwell (with no seats in nor carpet nor anything else) is one of those times. Man, thems is some tight quarters getting yourself twisted around in there. And the bonus is once you go and try to hold up the speaker just so with one hand, while trying to get a nut on a bolt that is too short, you realize your steel tools like to veer off course and stick to the magnetic speaker. I think the reason the job is taking a while is due to taking many breaks when I am getting frustrated and feel the urge to hit things with a hammer... so break time is about every 3 minutes ;)

189911899218993

[Ron]

If you are near a well stocked hardware store you might try some Coupling Nuts (AKA, Extension Nuts) and threaded rod. Ideally, you would have the offset to clear the cone built in...

[Jonathan]

Alas the hardware store nearby was not quite as well stocked as I would have hoped. Their smallest coupling nuts came in 1/4" thread only.

I then decided to MacGyver myself a little 'meccano set' style bracket as a replacement. They are in and so are the speakers. I'll keep an eye on how tight it all stays as the miles go on this summer. It's done like dinner and so am I. Time for the hockey game :)

19011

[jawn101]

Alas the hardware store nearby was not quite as well stocked as I would have hoped. Their smallest coupling nuts came in 1/4" thread only.

I then decided to MacGyver myself a little 'meccano set' style bracket as a replacement. They are in and so are the speakers. I'll keep an eye on how tight it all stays as the miles go on this summer. It's done like dinner and so am I. Time for the hockey game :)

19011

With that config you're going to lose a lot of precious sound pressure under the dash. My solution to having bought non Infinity speakers and being unable to find proper coupler nuts was to return the speakers and buy the Infinitys.

[1batt4u]

Still yet to install my infinity speakers, because car is under work. I really wish I can use same size rear infinity speakers in the front also. Anyway?

[jawn101]

Still yet to install my infinity speakers, because car is under work. I really wish I can use same size rear infinity speakers in the front also. Anyway?

Not without modifying the dashboard....

[1batt4u]

Not without modifying the dashboard....

They should make new improved dashboards with bigger openings

[jawn101]

They should make new improved dashboards with bigger openings

You might be able to get larger speakers up there physically but the studs are your limiting factor. Brackets might help a little bit but I doubt you'd get 4x6s into the available space no matter what. I think some folks have done custom kick pods that hold larger speakers but they go at the floor rather than the dashboard.

[TTait]

With the small aperture right in front of the tweeter portion of the larger speakers, you would probably see roll off and distortion in the lows and mids. If you need the larger speakers, put them in the footwell.

Not sure you need them though. If you have good speakers in the rear, they will fill in the low and low mids throughout the car, you only need the highs and high mids coming from the front to expand the sound out through the space - I don't think you will miss them at all.

Your money and effort are likely better spent putting in a 8" or 10" sub with a dedicated amp, just for normal listening - not for butt thumping hard core bass.

The small mofset amp in your head unit will generally do a good job pushing 4 speakers through all the mids and highs with little distortion. The low frequency stuff needs exponentially more and more power as the frequency goes down. This is why with many stereos you start getting some clipping and distortion when you turn up the volume even though the amp and speakers appear to sill have plenty of head room.

By taking the low frequency load off the small amp in the head unit you will get richer overall sound with no pops or distortion. If you try to pump the lows out of the head unit, you will likely start getting bad results when the volume goes above about 60% on most stereos.

[jawn101]

With the small aperture right in front of the tweeter portion of the larger speakers, you would probably see roll off and distortion in the lows and mids. If you need the larger speakers, put them in the footwell.

Not sure you need them though. If you have good speakers in the rear, they will fill in the low and low mids throughout the car, you only need the highs and high mids coming from the front to expand the sound out through the space - I don't think you will miss them at all.

Your money and effort are likely better spent putting in a 8" or 10" sub with a dedicated amp, just for normal listening - not for butt thumping hard core bass.

The small mofset amp in your head unit will generally do a good job pushing 4 speakers through all the mids and highs with little distortion. The low frequency stuff needs exponentially more and more power as the frequency goes down. This is why with many stereos you start getting some clipping and distortion when you turn up the volume even though the amp and speakers appear to sill have plenty of head room.

By taking the low frequency load off the small amp in the head unit you will get richer overall sound with no pops or distortion. If you try to pump the lows out of the head unit, you will likely start getting bad results when the volume goes above about 60% on most stereos.

Big +1 on this. I feel like the sound staging in my car is phenomenal now with the Infinitys all around in the stock sizes and a properly tuned set of crossovers in the head unit, feeding a dedicated amp and DMC-CA 8" sub box. The mids and mid-lows are handled perfectly by the rears, the mids and highs are handled amazingly by those small fronts, and the bass is very effective from the dedicated subwoofer. I do wish my head unit had a little more control over the subwoofer pre-out levels, as I only really get hard bass at volumes that are higher than I'd normally cruise at.

Bottom line is that with quality equipment you can make this system work very well with the stock size speakers.

[Notifier]

For anyone interested, I do have some extra sets of coupling nuts I purchased for installing my front speakers. Worked out OK for me. PM me if interested. For sale thread here:
http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?p=99494

[DavidProehl]

I've been researching what to put in for speakers and have read through this thread in its entirety. It sounds like the Infinity Kappa 32.9cf and 52.9I are the consensus. I also really like Dave's recommendation (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?572-Choices-of-speakers&p=19505&viewfull=1#post19505) on sticking with the Craig head unit. I want to keep a stock look if at all possible.

The problem I'm having is that the 32.9cf speakers are now discontinued and out of stock everywhere. If the 32.9cf speakers are no longer an option, what is a good plan B to pair with the Craig? How big (wattage wise) of a speaker can the Craig drive?

[NightFlyer]

I've been researching what to put in for speakers and have read through this thread in its entirety. It sounds like the Infinity Kappa 32.9cf and 52.9I are the consensus. I also really like Dave's recommendation (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?572-Choices-of-speakers&p=19505&viewfull=1#post19505) on sticking with the Craig head unit. I want to keep a stock look if at all possible.

The problem I'm having is that the 32.9cf speakers are now discontinued and out of stock everywhere. If the 32.9cf speakers are no longer an option, what is a good plan B to pair with the Craig? How big (wattage wise) of a speaker can the Craig drive?

If you're staying with 3.5", as opposed to trying to squeeze a 4" in the stock location, there are plenty of options available, however, none as nice as the 32.9cf at the price point it was previously offered at. For something similar quality wise in a similar price range, I personally recommend the following:

Coaxial: Hertz ECX-87

http://www.amazon.com/Hertz-ECX-87-Energy-Coaxial-Speakers/dp/B0051FJZIW

Full Range Single Driver: Dayton Audio ND91-4

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-224

From what I'm able to recall, the Craig outputted about 8 Watts / Channel RMS. If you really want to experience an upgrade in your audio system, then I would suggest using a speaker level input capable amp to drive all you speakers, while retaining the Craig head-unit and using it as your source (this is actually what I'll be doing in the near future when I tackle my audio upgrade).

Just my honest opinion, FWIW.

Best of luck!

[DavidProehl]

Thanks for the tips. I'll be watching eBay for any Infinity speakers that come up, but the Hertz ECX 87 looks like a good backup. Seem very similar to the 32.9, I even found a couple car audio forum threads comparing the two.

I'll look into amps that can drive all my speakers as well. I'll be sure to post back here if I find something I end up going with.

[NightFlyer]

Thanks for the tips. I'll be watching eBay for any Infinity speakers that come up, but the Hertz ECX 87 looks like a good backup. Seem very similar to the 32.9, I even found a couple car audio forum threads comparing the two.

I'll look into amps that can drive all my speakers as well. I'll be sure to post back here if I find something I end up going with.

For amps, I currently recommend the Helix Blue B series. In their price range, they truly are second to none. If you're running a 4 channel OEM setup plus a sub, this is the one you'd want (and the one I'll be getting for myself):

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_975BFIVE/Helix-Blue-B-FIVE.html?tp=35808

THD (total harmonic distortion) is probably the most important thing to pay attention to when looking for a quality amp - the lower the number, the better the sound at higher volumes.

[DavidProehl]

For amps, I currently recommend the Helix Blue B series. In their price range, they truly are second to none. If you're running a 4 channel OEM setup plus a sub, this is the one you'd want (and the one I'll be getting for myself):

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_975BFIVE/Helix-Blue-B-FIVE.html?tp=35808

THD (total harmonic distortion) is probably the most important thing to pay attention to when looking for a quality amp - the lower the number, the better the sound at higher volumes.

Wow, looks awesome, but a bit more than I was planning to spend. I wanted to target around $250-$300 for an amp but I see 5 channel amps aren't cheap.

[NightFlyer]

Wow, looks awesome, but a bit more than I was planning to spend. I wanted to target around $250-$300 for an amp but I see 5 channel amps aren't cheap.

The problem with lower-end / cheaper multi-channel amps is that they tend not to have high/speaker level inputs - only low level rca inputs. Nor do they mix class designs for the primary and sub channels. Not the end of the world, as you can always run external line converters - but it's more crap to deal with. If you're going that route and don't mind running external line converters, then I'd recommend the Precision Power PC740.5, which is right in your price range and a great clean sounding but not overpowering amp.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_26456_Precision-Power-PPI-PC740.5.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp3603493&gclid=CLjhjKGAi7gCFcZaMgodO30AIw

[DavidProehl]

Great suggestion, I'm not looking to build a perfect audio system, just one that is noticeably better than stock. I've read class A/B units tend to run hotter than class D, but they also have better sound quality than D. Ideally I'd like to mount it under the parcel shelf, behind the passenger seat. That location will be invisible. I know it depends on the amp, but will that be too hot for a class A/B amp? I've seen class D amps mounted there without a problem. I could mount it under the spare tire, but want to avoid visible wires running up through the trunk release hole if possible.

[NightFlyer]

Great suggestion, I'm not looking to build a perfect audio system, just one that is noticeably better than stock. I've read class A/B units tend to run hotter than class D, but they also have better sound quality than D. Ideally I'd like to mount it under the parcel shelf, behind the passenger seat. That location will be invisible. I know it depends on the amp, but will that be too hot for a class A/B amp? I've seen class D amps mounted there without a problem. I could mount it under the spare tire, but want to avoid visible wires running up through the trunk release hole if possible.

Sounds like our audio upgrade ambitions are very similar, although I do admittedly plan on running a 9 channel setup, with an extra 2 channels in the foot-well kick-panels and another 2 channels in the parcel shelf area aiming forward - most likely components in those locations, however I really haven't decided yet. My guideline is that no visible permanent modification of a non-replaceable stock/OEM part be made and that it be easily returnable to stock. I'll actually be reproducing the storage compartment door and parcel shelf backing panel and using those reproductions for the audio upgrade, while saving the stock pieces.

I also plan on mounting the amps somewhere in that general area, although again haven't really decided on exact location yet. And like you, Dave, and others, I will also be retaining the Craig head-unit, but modifying it with a line-level/aux input like Dave (who's brain I can hopefully pick on that subject when it comes time).

Overheating of amps usually occur more because of high sustained loads over a long period of time vs inadequate airflow, thus if you're planning on running the volume at 70% or higher of your system's capability for hours at a time, then you'll need to worry more about airflow. Even in that location, you could mount some small external fans and power them by tapping into the amp power lines if necessary. If you're planning more moderate use though, then it's not something I'd be worrying about so long as your amp is at least of halfway decent quality.

Hope that helps - oh, and be sure to post what you decide to go with in regards to speakers and components, as I'm at least always interested in that kind of stuff :)

[DavidProehl]

This is what I'm currently planning:

Front: Hertz ECX 87 (http://www.amazon.com/Hertz-ECX-87-Energy-Coaxial-Speakers/dp/B0051FJZIW)
Rear: Infinity 529I (http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-529I-Inch-Two-Way-Speakers/dp/B00190Z7Z8)
Amp: Precision Power PC740.5 (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_26456_Precision-Power-PPI-PC740.5.html)
Sub: DMC-CA Sub & enclosure (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2629-CA-DMC-Subwoofer-question&p=36010&viewfull=1#post36010)

Should be ordering later this month. Fiscal year end bonus check comes in then and this will be a good way to celebrate. :)

[NightFlyer]

This is what I'm currently planning:

Front: Hertz ECX 87 (http://www.amazon.com/Hertz-ECX-87-Energy-Coaxial-Speakers/dp/B0051FJZIW)
Rear: Infinity 529I (http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-529I-Inch-Two-Way-Speakers/dp/B00190Z7Z8)
Amp: Precision Power PC740.5 (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_26456_Precision-Power-PPI-PC740.5.html)
Sub: DMC-CA Sub & enclosure (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2629-CA-DMC-Subwoofer-question&p=36010&viewfull=1#post36010)

Should be ordering later this month. Fiscal year end bonus check comes in then and this will be a good way to celebrate. :)

I think that set-up will give you exactly what you're looking for, and going with the PPI PC740.5 should definitely exceed your expectations!

Most people buy amps based solely on brand name or max output wattage ratings and end up overspending for a product that merely meets their expectations, or in many cases ends up falling far short on their expectations for quality of sound.

I might end up going with PPI amps over the Helix as well if I can figure out a place to easily locate/hide the line converters - it's a hell of an amp at a great price.

[Ron]

I've noticed that a lot of dashes crack around the speakers...does anyone have pics where they installed low profile or flush covers when putting in new speakers that hid the cracks?

...Just wondering if it would look crappy or ??

Stainless? lol

[Jonathan]

I went with the Kicker 3.5s and Kicker 4x10s. Can't say I enjoyed the installation of the fronts, but it all got done and I'm quite happy with the result.

Alpine CDE-126BT deck as well as replacement DIN radio bracket. New speaker wiring to all four, but kept existing power wiring (ignition plus always on wire) as well as original ground wire. Removed glass inline fuses and did not add any others save the one already in the fuse/relay area and the factory micro one in the back of the deck. No amp or sub or anything additional.

All in all, I think it sounds pretty suite.


https://vimeo.com/69472641

[NightFlyer]

I went with the Kicker 3.5s and Kicker 4x10s. Can't say I enjoyed the installation of the fronts, but it all got done and I'm quite happy with the result.

Alpine CDE-126BT deck as well as replacement DIN radio bracket. New speaker wiring to all four, but kept existing power wiring (ignition plus always on wire) as well as original ground wire. Removed glass inline fuses and did not add any others save the one already in the fuse/relay area and the factory micro one in the back of the deck. No amp or sub or anything additional.

All in all, I think it sounds pretty suite.

HA - I see what you did in your closing sentence and you're right, very 'suite' - I love Honeymoon Suite!!! GREAT BAND!!!

My '08 Jeep Grand Cherokee has the OEM Kicker system and I personally love it. Kicker's have great headroom extension, making them perfect for rock and other mid-range heavy music, however, they do admittedly leave a little to be desired in the imaging and range departments IMHO (not that one would really notice in a D). Your head unit swap basically tripled your output wattage over an OEM stock unit.

Nice setup and great taste in music :thumbup:

[Dangermouse]

If you're staying with 3.5", as opposed to trying to squeeze a 4" in the stock location, there are plenty of options available, however, none as nice as the 32.9cf at the price point it was previously offered at. For something similar quality wise in a similar price range, I personally recommend the following .....



For amps, I currently recommend the Helix Blue B series....... .

Interesting stuff. I need to change out my speakers some time and will bookmark this thread for that time.


Are these recommendations based off personal use, or are you in the ICE industry?

[NightFlyer]

Interesting stuff. I need to change out my speakers some time and will bookmark this thread for that time.


Are these recommendations based off personal use, or are you in the ICE industry?

Not in the industry, but back in the '90's, I built several car stereos. I'll see if I can dig up some pics for you :smile:

[NightFlyer]

@Dermot and other interested:

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7517-Official-Pictures-of-Other-%28Non-D%29-Cars-You-Own&p=110085&viewfull=1#post110085

[Jonathan]

Nice setup and great taste in music :thumbup:

Thanks! I love a lot of 80s music in general. The DMC playlist I put together for using with this stereo gets more play time over any of the others regardless of what it's coming through on. Great time for lots of different music types :)

[krs09]

Hey guys, Iam looking to replace my speaker with Rockford Fosgate speakers. The question is do you think I should go with the 4x6's for the rear or the 5.25's? Im worried about the fitment, Im sure the 4x6 would fit but for a little more money I would like to go a little bigger. Ive read the infinity 5.25's fit in the rear so I would guess the rockfords should fit also right? May be a stupid question but figured id ask.

[NightFlyer]

Hey guys, Iam looking to replace my speaker with Rockford Fosgate speakers. The question is do you think I should go with the 4x6's for the rear or the 5.25's? Im worried about the fitment, Im sure the 4x6 would fit but for a little more money I would like to go a little bigger. Ive read the infinity 5.25's fit in the rear so I would guess the rockfords should fit also right? May be a stupid question but figured id ask.

Are you going with the Punch's or the Prime's? And I'm assuming in the rear stock locations, yes?

The diameter of the Punch's is slightly larger than that of the Prime's - approximately 1/8".

If you go with the Punch's, you should be able to make them fit, however, you'll probably have to modify the speaker's mounting plate. The Prime's would be an easier fit and may not require any modification to the actual speaker itself. Just remember that you do not install the included grilles - just the speakers themselves.

No matter what 5.25" speaker you decide to go with, it will require tweaking of the DeLorean's stock mounting bracket (the one that holds the speaker by the magnet).

Hope that helps.

[krs09]

Are you going with the Punch's or the Prime's? And I'm assuming in the rear stock locations, yes?

The diameter of the Punch's is slightly larger than that of the Prime's - approximately 1/8".

If you go with the Punch's, you should be able to make them fit, however, you'll probably have to modify the speaker's mounting plate. The Prime's would be an easier fit and may not require any modification to the actual speaker itself. Just remember that you do not install the included grilles - just the speakers themselves.

No matter what 5.25" speaker you decide to go with, it will require tweaking of the DeLorean's stock mounting bracket (the one that holds the speaker by the magnet).

Hope that helps.

I am going with the Punch's and in the factory location. I figured I would have to modifiy the bracket a bit just hope its not too bad. I also hope the fronts arent too bad, hopefully I can just dogleg the mounting tabs (on the speakers) and call it a day. Thanks for the info. Ordering them now.. Just a shade over $100.00 on amazon for all four. Not too bad.

[NightFlyer]

The most extreme system I've ever seen in a D - all Rockford speakers/amps.

Anyone know this car?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq3tVgKW9jI

[kobachi]

The problem with lower-end / cheaper multi-channel amps is that they tend not to have high/speaker level inputs - only low level rca inputs. Nor do they mix class designs for the primary and sub channels. Not the end of the world, as you can always run external line converters - but it's more crap to deal with. If you're going that route and don't mind running external line converters, then I'd recommend the Precision Power PC740.5, which is right in your price range and a great clean sounding but not overpowering amp.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_26456_Precision-Power-PPI-PC740.5.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=paid_search_google_pla&scid=scplp3603493&gclid=CLjhjKGAi7gCFcZaMgodO30AIw

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PBR3004/Rockford-Fosgate-PBR300X4.html?tp=115

Speaker-level inputs, very very small footprint, and can be had for ~$150 on Amazon.

[NightFlyer]

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PBR3004/Rockford-Fosgate-PBR300X4.html?tp=115

Speaker-level inputs, very very small footprint, and can be had for ~$150 on Amazon.

S/N: 80db
THD: .50%

Decent enough amp, however, I was referring to something with a little cleaner sound - especially for those running just the 4 stock location channels w/o a sub, or even those with a sub if clarity in the mid and high frequencies are of greater importance than 'boominess.' Any properly matched amp will give you volume. But if you're looking for full range sound quality, then I personally recommend amps with the following:

S/N: >100db
THD: <.20%

While I'm far from being an audiophile, the difference at higher volumes is definitely noticeable to 99% of listeners between something like the RF you recommended and something like the PPI PC740.5.

Just my honest opinion, for what it's worth.

[Farrar]

S/N: >100db
THD: <.20%


I assume you listen to the stereo without the engine running? :lol:

[Dangermouse]

The most extreme system I've ever seen in a D - all Rockford speakers/amps.

Anyone know this car?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq3tVgKW9jI

5000W

That's probably sufficient for a D.

The car is in Europe I think. France or Switzerland

[NightFlyer]

5000W

That's probably sufficient for a D.

The car is in Europe I think. France or Switzerland

I was guessing Germany based on the German flag on the owner's shirt sleeve... :wink:

[kobachi]

5000W

That's probably sufficient for a D.

The car is in Europe I think. France or Switzerland

5000W, AKA ~5% of the DeLorean's engine power.

[Tomcio]

I was guessing Germany based on the German flag on the owner's shirt sleeve... :wink:
This is not a German flag. Please notice the difference:
Germany:
20340

Belgium:
20339

The colors are the same, but in different order.

[NightFlyer]

This is not a German flag. Please notice the difference:
Germany:
20340

Belgium:
20339

The colors are the same, but in different order.

I didn't catch that but should have - I apologize and stand corrected.

[DL4567]

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_575PBR3004/Rockford-Fosgate-PBR300X4.html?tp=115

Speaker-level inputs, very very small footprint, and can be had for ~$150 on Amazon.


S/N: 80db
THD: .50%

Decent enough amp, however, I was referring to something with a little cleaner sound - especially for those running just the 4 stock location channels w/o a sub, or even those with a sub if clarity in the mid and high frequencies are of greater importance than 'boominess.' Any properly matched amp will give you volume. But if you're looking for full range sound quality, then I personally recommend amps with the following:

S/N: >100db
THD: <.20%

While I'm far from being an audiophile, the difference at higher volumes is definitely noticeable to 99% of listeners between something like the RF you recommended and something like the PPI PC740.5.

Just my honest opinion, for what it's worth.

This may sound like a dumb question, but how much of a difference does a subwoofer (like the 8" DMC-CA one) really make vs. just having 4 good modern speakers driven by an amp? I'd like to keep using the Craig head unit for looks and connect it to a separate amp to drive the speakers (like sdg3205's recommendation in post #82). I've got new 3.5"s in the front dash, and two new 6x8's on the back shelf. Sounds much better than the original speakers, but still rather flat driven by just the Craig.

So I imagine adding an amp should improve the sound a lot, but is it worth it to add the 8" sub? I know it would add some bass, but I'm just looking for "good" modern car sound, not boom-boom rap music sound. This decision dictates either a cheaper 4 or more expensive 5 channel amp.

[sdg3205]

This may sound like a dumb question, but how much of a difference does a subwoofer (like the 8" DMC-CA one) really make vs. just having 4 good modern speakers driven by an amp? I'd like to keep using the Craig head unit for looks and connect it to a separate amp to drive the speakers (like sdg3205's recommendation in post #82). I've got new 3.5"s in the front dash, and two new 6x8's on the back shelf. Sounds much better than the original speakers, but still rather flat driven by just the Craig.

So I imagine adding an amp should improve the sound a lot, but is it worth it to add the 8" sub? I know it would add some bass, but I'm just looking for "good" modern car sound, not boom-boom rap music sound. This decision dictates either a cheaper 4 or more expensive 5 channel amp.

The amp/sub makes a phenomenal difference. Just how much? Check the specs on your speakers, they probably dont do much under 150Hz, even when driven hard. New 3.5's will have nice high end. The craig is more than enough to drive fronts and rears at normal to respectably high levels, but not ear bleeding levels.

With the amp/sub you can adjust the crossover to pick up the low end where your 6x8's leave off, and adjust the gain to your liking.

EDIT - i think i wrote this at one point, but the install is simple. I bought all my gear (Infinity sub, pioneer mono sub, cables, wires etc) for well under $400 via ebay and amazon!

[NightFlyer]

This may sound like a dumb question, but how much of a difference does a subwoofer (like the 8" DMC-CA one) really make vs. just having 4 good modern speakers driven by an amp? I'd like to keep using the Craig head unit for looks and connect it to a separate amp to drive the speakers (like sdg3205's recommendation in post #82). I've got new 3.5"s in the front dash, and two new 6x8's on the back shelf. Sounds much better than the original speakers, but still rather flat driven by just the Craig.

So I imagine adding an amp should improve the sound a lot, but is it worth it to add the 8" sub? I know it would add some bass, but I'm just looking for "good" modern car sound, not boom-boom rap music sound. This decision dictates either a cheaper 4 or more expensive 5 channel amp.

Depends on the frequency range capabilities of your 6x8's, as Dave mentioned, and the type of enclosure you have them in. I've gotten phenomenal low frequency response out of external amp driven 6x9's in a properly built and ported enclosure with a good reflection angle in a hatchback - most people that heard that setup swore I was running at least 8" subs, if not bigger, even though I didn't have any subs to speak of.

For what it sounds like you're looking for, you could get a cheap 5 channel class D amp, try it with just the four channels you've got now, and that way if you wanted to add a sub, you'd be all ready to go power wise.

If you are planning on running a sub though, then what I would recommend would depend on how you plan/intend on using the system.

[DL4567]

I just checked my speakers and wow, even though they are "new" (I installed them in 2004) they don't handle all that much power.

Fronts are 15w RMS, 60 peak: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-N9bIYRqXyLe/p_130TSA878/Pioneer-3-1-2-Speakers.html
Rears are 30w RMS, 150 peak: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-7tTuRsikJUv/p_130TSG6840/Pioneer-TS-G6840R.html

According to the specs though, the bass response is pretty good, at least on paper. I'm no audiophile expert, but I wanna say what sounds "wrong" right now is that there is a lack of mid-range. You can hear the high notes, low notes, but sometimes the middle range of a song just seems to be really quiet or missing (kind of hard to explain). It just sounds very flat. I always thought it's because the Craig is so old and crappy, but who knows.

Other factors are that I'm still using the original speaker wires (but I wouldn't think that makes much difference at these low wattage levels) and also, I made these CNC-cut MDF rings for the front speakers for a tight fit to the dash, but from what I remember after dealing with the frustration of the coupling nuts, that there ended up being a slight gap between the spacer rings and the dash. Would that have a HUGE effect on the quality of the front speakers' sound? I just looked under there and it is near impossible to confirm whether or not there is a gap or how big it is.

http://imageshack.us/a/img10/2418/xd47.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img703/3016/70r1.jpg

[NightFlyer]

I just checked my speakers and wow, even though they are "new" (I installed them in 2004) they don't handle all that much power.

Fronts are 15w RMS, 60 peak: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-N9bIYRqXyLe/p_130TSA878/Pioneer-3-1-2-Speakers.html
Rears are 30w RMS, 150 peak: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-7tTuRsikJUv/p_130TSG6840/Pioneer-TS-G6840R.html

According to the specs though, the bass response is pretty good, at least on paper. I'm no audiophile expert, but I wanna say what sounds "wrong" right now is that there is a lack of mid-range. You can hear the high notes, low notes, but sometimes the middle range of a song just seems to be really quiet or missing (kind of hard to explain). It just sounds very flat. I always thought it's because the Craig is so old and crappy, but who knows.

Other factors are that I'm still using the original speaker wires (but I wouldn't think that makes much difference at these low wattage levels) and also, I made these CNC-cut MDF rings for the front speakers for a tight fit to the dash, but from what I remember after dealing with the frustration of the coupling nuts, that there ended up being a slight gap between the spacer rings and the dash. Would that have a HUGE effect on the quality of the front speakers' sound? I just looked under there and it is near impossible to confirm whether or not there is a gap or how big it is.

Most coaxial speakers are designed as 'open air' drivers, and while an air tight seal with your mounting surface will slightly increase and tighten the low-end response of the driver, primarily due to increased efficiency, it probably isn't going be enough to make an audible difference one way or the other. The biggest benefit to an air tight seal would be to reduce unwanted vibration of the dash / mounting surface. As this is a non-sealed mounting regardless, you'll always have a slight reverberation effect from the rearward waveforms of these speakers bouncing around within the dash. In general, the dash speakers, due to the limit of their size and of the acoustics of the air space within they function, will never yield 'modern sounding' low and mid-low response without a major redesign of the mounting space - which just wouldn't be worth it IMHO. Due to the reflection angle of the windshield, simply increasing power to these channels while keeping them full range will just give you louder muddied / washed out sound - especially at higher volumes.

As far as the lack of mid-level response - did you try adjusting the tonal controls (bass & treble) and utilizing the loudness button on the Craig?

If so, and assuming that the Craig is functioning properly, then the only other thing that I can think of that may be effecting your mid-level response is the lack of power from the Craig and the 2-way design of your Pioneer speakers and the crossover points at which they're set. More, and cleaner power from a decent amp could help dramatically in this regard. Another thing you may want to consider doing is setting a crossover on your front channels so that those speakers are focused only on mid and high range frequencies, while upping the power to those channels.

If you'd like a specific amp recommendation, provide me a little more info concerning your musical tastes, goals, and primary listening style/preferences.

Also, one last thing to consider is that most listeners prefer the traditional 'smile' equalization curve, where the mid frequencies receive the least amount of bias, and are actually reduced, thus most coaxial speakers (and especially two-ways) produced over the last 15 years tend to be designed around this popular preference. It's possible that your listening tastes are unique in that you prefer a biased mid range spectrum. In that case, components or even 3-way (or more) coaxials would also help to achieve a signature more to your personal preference.

I hope this help.

[TTait]

Does installing a sub make a bid difference? Yes, it can, and for reasons you might not realize.

Even with a decent quality head unit, the built in amplifier is going to be a bit weak. Making sound means pushing air, and it takes more energy to reproduce low frequencies than high ones. By installing a sub with a dedicated amp you take a huge load off the head unit and its amp. This means less clipping and distortion, and higher sound pressure levels (louder) when you want it.

You could install a 4 or 5 channel amp, with or without a sub, but you will get your best overall results if you get the low frequencies on a dedicated amp - the head unit will have plenty of power for most 4 channel applications IF you take the low frequency loads off it.

T

[nkemp]

The "new" speakers I installed a number of years ago have a left front speaker failure. Raspiness. So this thread is perfect. The replacement would be a no-brainer if the Infinity was still available given all the high praise. I never liked the replacements I used (Blaupunkt up front...based on someone's recommendation) due to the muddiness.

The questions are:

Has anyone use 4" speakers up front?
Any thoughts about 4" speakers?
I believe Infinity has a 4". Is that as good as the unavailable 3.5"?
How about the 5.5" up front without modding the opening?


So here is the thinking behind the questions...The 3.5" speakers I replaced are actually 3.3". The hole appears to be at least 3.5" and maybe a bit larger (Difficult to measure). The 3.5" "float" in the hole when mounted from below. If a a 3.5" speaker is 3.3" would a 4" be about 3.8 " or so. If so, it would make a tight fit to the subdash. The only potential mounting problem would be the close proximity of the plastic panel and excess glue interference.

Yes.. I could mount a 3.5" up into the hole but I thought I'd pursue the 4" question.

The 5.5 inch speaker is much larger but does anyone have an opinion on how it would sound up front ... speaking through a 3.5" hole?

[dmc6960]

The questions are:

Has anyone use 4" speakers up front?
Any thoughts about 4" speakers?
I believe Infinity has a 4". Is that as good as the unavailable 3.5"?
How about the 5.5" up front without modding the opening?



A 4" speaker will fit under the dash, with it screwed directly into the fiberglass. The sound will be affected by how much lower it is than the dash. If your thinking of shoving it up through the hole in the dash, you'll have to try that for yourself. I dont think there is any way a 5.5" could ever work.

[krs09]

I tried to install 5' rockford speakers and cant seems to get the to fit:mad1:.. So it looks like Im going to have to exchange them for 4x6 instead. I hope they'll fit. I really havent tried to get the fronts in yet but being 3x5 I would think they will be easier to install but who knows. I did finish the new wiring though so thats one thing.

[dmc6960]

I really havent tried to get the fronts in yet but being 3x5

The front speakers are NOT 3x5. They are 3.5" round.

[krs09]

The front speakers are NOT 3x5. They are 3.5" round.

Yeah thats what I ment.

[NightFlyer]

The "new" speakers I installed a number of years ago have a left front speaker failure. Raspiness. So this thread is perfect. The replacement would be a no-brainer if the Infinity was still available given all the high praise. I never liked the replacements I used (Blaupunkt up front...based on someone's recommendation) due to the muddiness.

The questions are:

Has anyone use 4" speakers up front?
Any thoughts about 4" speakers?
I believe Infinity has a 4". Is that as good as the unavailable 3.5"?
How about the 5.5" up front without modding the opening?


So here is the thinking behind the questions...The 3.5" speakers I replaced are actually 3.3". The hole appears to be at least 3.5" and maybe a bit larger (Difficult to measure). The 3.5" "float" in the hole when mounted from below. If a a 3.5" speaker is 3.3" would a 4" be about 3.8 " or so. If so, it would make a tight fit to the subdash. The only potential mounting problem would be the close proximity of the plastic panel and excess glue interference.

Yes.. I could mount a 3.5" up into the hole but I thought I'd pursue the 4" question.

The 5.5 inch speaker is much larger but does anyone have an opinion on how it would sound up front ... speaking through a 3.5" hole?

Yes, several owners have installed 4" speakers in the stock/OEM dash location, so it's definitely possible. Just as Jim Reeve previously posted, I too don't see how a 5.5" (a rather usual size for a car speaker, as 5.25" is much more common - especially for full range coaxials) could possibly fit without some major modification. Also, I personally wouldn't go with anything larger than a 4" in a free-air mounting - especially under the dash, as the backward waveforms will begin to cause massive reverberation and really start to muddy the sound - especially at higher volumes.

As far as what 4" to get, it all depends on the other speakers in your setup and what you're looking to achieve with the speakers.

The strength of the Infinity Kappas come from the materials used in their woofer cone construction (woven glass fiber), their efficiency, and at the price point at which they are/were offered. The 4" Infinity of which you inquired is of the Reference series and has a polypropylene woofer cone - not bad, just not as good as the Kappa series. As you're referring to the Infinity Kappa, I'll assume that you're looking for a full range driver.

For something with a sound characteristic similar to the 3.5" Kappa in a 4" coaxial driver, I suggestion the following:

Helix Esprit E4X - http://www.crutchfield.com/S-qnuywdPHA5U/p_975E4X/HELIX-Esprit-E4X.html
Focal Integration IC 100 - http://www.crutchfield.com/p_091IC100/Focal-Integration-IC-100.html?tp=102#overview-tab

Hope this helps.

[nkemp]

The thought on the 5"+ speaker was purely to see what others thought about the sound having the 5"+ speaker "speaking" through the 3.5" hole. Intuitively it doesn't sound right (take your choice on pun intention).

Thanks for the input on speaker alternatives. It beats starting from scratch for an audio nube. And to demonstrate the nube potential ... I meant the 5.25" speakers.

[DavidProehl]

Nick - Another option is to try watching eBay for the Infinity Kappa 32.9cf speakers. I've been watching for a couple weeks now and just picked up a factory sealed box today. Granted, I have no one to go to if I have problems with them, but given the rave reviews here I figured it was worth the risk.

[nkemp]

...watching eBay for the Infinity Kappa 32.9cf speakers.

I just set up a search agent. Thanks.

[NightFlyer]

Infinity just recently discontinued the Kappa 52.9i and existing stocks are running low.

The Kappa 52.11i, also a full range 5.25" 2-way coaxial is still in production and readily available, however it is a 2 ohm driver - not an issue for those running a capable external amp, however, may pose an issue for those relying upon their head-unit to drive these speakers.

Personally, while the Infinity Kappa's were/are a nice speaker at a great price point, there are other just as great and even better options available, such as the HELIX Esprit and Focal Integration/Access lines. All use a woven glass fiber woofer, however, where the Infinity Kappa uses a polymer (plastic) based tweeter producing a loose and bright high-range, the HELIX Esprit's use a silk dome tweeter that produce a balanced slightly warm high-range and the Focal's use an inverted aluminum dome tweeter that produce a tight and bright high-range.

Really, it all comes down to personal preference, but the HELIX and Focals are just as great, if not more so, than the Infinity Kappas. So, if you can't find a set of Kappas, I'm extremely confident that you'll be just as pleased with these alternatives.

For what it's worth!

[nkemp]

... For what it's worth!

For some it is worth a lot since we don't all get to experience the variety of speakers available. As such, without opinions from others it is sorta a crap shot. And my first attempt at speakers seems heavy on the crap side.

[NightFlyer]

For some it is worth a lot since we don't all get to experience the variety of speakers available. As such, without opinions from others it is sorta a crap shot. And my first attempt at speakers seems heavy on the crap side.

It sounds like you prefer a tight high-range. For that, I think the Focal's will serve you best so long as your power source is relatively clean (low THD).

But, if your power source is 'noisy,' they could start to sound too-tight and too-bright, or harsh at higher volumes over a sustained period of time. Thus, if your power source is somewhat 'noisy,' an alternative power source isn't an option, and you really like to crank the volume for 15+ minutes at a time, then you may want to consider the HELIX's instead.

OR, if you're willing to drive the front at a somewhat higher crossover point, provided that your other speakers provide sufficient bass, mid-bass and lower-mid range fill, you may want to consider the budget option Polk DB351 3.5". When used as a primarily upper-mid and high range speaker, they provide a very tight and balanced high-range.

Hope this all makes sense and helps you make an informed decision - again, for what it's worth!

[nkemp]

Mostly I listen to FM and I'm far enough out of town that the window antenna does not do any radio station justice. At this point I don't want to put in an electric antenna... I like the clean lines of an antenna-less car. My radio is a KDC-X890. Likely not all that great but at the time it provided an option for custom graphics as can be seen here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1987-What-does-your-radio-display

At one time I aspired to have really great audio systems but over time I realized I do not get/take the time to actually "listen". Additionally there is usually background noise and activity that disrupts the experience. The DeLorean seems less than optimal for a good sound environment... even when not running. And I'm prone to saying ..." I listened to a pair of $80,000 speakers one time and they were not $78,000 better than mine."

That all said I like to hear a natural sound, natural sounding voices and I do not have that now with or without the blown speaker (which is a mystery). I don't like muddled sound and I don't crank it up. It usually plays loud enought to be heard comfortabley over the D's rumble. Maybe I'm used to listening to today's factory radios be that good or bad.

Does that make senses?

[NightFlyer]

Mostly I listen to FM and I'm far enough out of town that the window antenna does not do any radio station justice. At this point I don't want to put in an electric antenna... I like the clean lines of an antenna-less car. My radio is a KDC-X890. Likely not all that great but at the time it provided an option for custom graphics as can be seen here: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1987-What-does-your-radio-display

At one time I aspired to have really great audio systems but over time I realized I do not get/take the time to actually "listen". Additionally there is usually background noise and activity that disrupts the experience. The DeLorean seems less than optimal for a good sound environment... even when not running. And I'm prone to saying ..." I listened to a pair of $80,000 speakers one time and they were not $78,000 better than mine."

That all said I like to hear a natural sound, natural sounding voices and I do not have that now with or without the blown speaker (which is a mystery). I don't like muddled sound and I don't crank it up. It usually plays loud enought to be heard comfortabley over the D's rumble. Maybe I'm used to listening to today's factory radios be that good or bad.

Does that make senses?

Your Kenwood head-unit is actually a fantastic CD player and source amp- Wolfson D/A converter, high quality op-amps, THD <.08%, etc. It's only weakness appears to be the tuner - only 70 db SNR. The noisy tuner might be letting you down more than anything else in your set-up - especially considering that you primarily listen to FM radio.

Considering this, and assuming that you're sticking with the Kenwood HU, I'd personally go with the Focal's, as the tightness and brightness of the speakers will help to counter the noisiness of the tuner, leading to a more balanced/natural sound. A warm or balanced speaker in conjunction with the noisy tuner would naturally produce a very muddied sound, as you're currently experiencing - Blaupunkt speakers are generally notoriously loose and warm biased.

[nkemp]

... go with the Focal's ...

Sounds like a plan. And maybe I should track down the Kenwood HD tuner for this unit.

Thanks for the input.

EDIT: Amazon just happened to send an add for this (JVC KD-AVX77 El Kameleon):
http://www.amazon.com/JVC-KD-AVX77-Proximity-Touchscreen-Bluetooth/dp/B001PLEHQG/ref=sr_1_85?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1373722170&sr=1-85

I like the display and it may look great in the car in the all black mode

[NightFlyer]

Sounds like a plan. And maybe I should track down the Kenwood HD tuner for this unit.

Thanks for the input.

EDIT: Amazon just happened to send an add for this (JVC KD-AVX77 El Kameleon):
http://www.amazon.com/JVC-KD-AVX77-Proximity-Touchscreen-Bluetooth/dp/B001PLEHQG/ref=sr_1_85?s=car&ie=UTF8&qid=1373722170&sr=1-85

I like the display and it may look great in the car in the all black mode

If you like the JVC unit, better jump on it while it's available, as it has been discontinued by the manufacturer, so only remaining inventory stocks exist.

Much better tuner:

93db SNR

But nosier internal amplification:

<1.0% THD

Overall, it would be better for listening to FM than your current HU, but worse for CD/aux. However, if you go with this HU, then I'd probably go with the HELIX Esprit front speakers for a balanced/neutral sound, only because of the noisier internal amplification of the HU. If you're running an external amp though, then my speaker recommendations would change.

[TTait]

I used to listen to FM all the time too, but... Times are changing guys. While this is a speaker thread and I don't want to go too far off topic - anyone not familiar with Pandora ought to try it out. Put it on your PC at work first if you need to - even better to listen on your smartphone.

There are a lot of head units now with built in Pandora support via bluetooth to your iphone or android. select it as a source at the head unit and it pulls in music through your phone. The system is remarkable at not just learning what you like to listen to, but even better it finds new music for you that you might never have found. And its free. When you use the desktop app it will play some commercials, but when used with a head unit through you cell phone it should not - all music all the time.

Any phone with Pandora will automatically have bluetooth support for wireless playing of music stored on your phone too - also good. And while we are at - bluetooth phone support - also a must.

I still like FM - its especially good for live news and such, but for music - there are some great new players in town...

[nkemp]

FYI ... eBay seller "googol_shop" has "more than 10" Infinity Kappa 329cf new speakers for sale as of today. The listing is not real clear but they are sold in pairs for the price shown.

[DL4567]

Very tempting. Are those black plastic spacer rings included by default? I asked the ebay seller about it and they didn't give me a clear answer. (like their listing isn't clear either)

[nkemp]

There is a black spacer ring attached to the front of the speaker. As such they can mount flush below the dash without interfering with the speaker. So, yes, they do come with the ring like shown in post #32 in this thread.

[DL4567]

Excellent, thanks!

[Patrick C]

FYI ... eBay seller "googol_shop" has "more than 10" Infinity Kappa 329cf new speakers for sale as of today. The listing is not real clear but they are sold in pairs for the price shown.

Direct link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Infinity-Kappa-329cf-2-Way-3-5-Car-Speaker-Kappa-32-9cf-1-Pair-/171103687035?pt=Car_Speakers&hash=item27d693117b

[kobachi]

I have the Infinity Kappa 32.9cfs in my dash and they are excellent speakers. However, at any reasonably loud volume, they DESPERATELY need a high-pass filter to avoid "thudding" from bass notes. Crutchfield sells a product called "Bass Blockers" which fulfill this purpose. The Kappa speakers are marketed as "True 4 Ohm" but are technically 2 Ohm nominal (2.6 DCR). I tried the "150Hz" (266 µfd) blockers first, but the speakers resonant frequency is 122Hz and 150Hz ended up being too low of a cutoff. I switched to the "300Hz" blockers (133 µfd) and they are excellent. Depending on your setup, you could even go up to the 600Hz (66 µfd) or 800Hz (50 µfd) product.

These are literally just 50V capacitors with terminals on the end, but $10 from Crutchfield with free shipping isn't too outrageous compared to just buying individual caps.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-qKH8A9cWd4M/p_127BB300A2/Bass-Blockers-300-Hz-cut-off.html#details-tab

Here's a graph I made of the four options for 2.6 Ohm speakers.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/oimg?key=0ApG67bht4oI2dFpRWENkUU8yNkZTWGN6NkpLeC1Y eGc&oid=2&zx=ieam2b4m85dw

Inline capacitors act as "first-order high pass filters", which means at the indicated cutoff frequency you get -3dB of attenuation, with -6dB/octave rolloff from there. A second-order HPF (i.e. inline capacitor + bridged inductor, -3db at cutoff and -12db/octave from there) at roughly 2x the resonant frequency of the speakers (i.e. ~244Hz) would probably be an even better choice.

[kobachi]

The Kappa speakers are marketed as "True 4 Ohm" but are technically 2 Ohm nominal (2.6 DCR). I tried the "150Hz" (266 µfd) blockers first, but the speakers resonant frequency is 122Hz and 150Hz ended up being too low of a cutoff.

To clarify: I'm putting these frequencies in quotes (i.e. "150Hz") both because that's how Crutchfield sells them, and because since the Kappas are not actually 4-Ohm speakers, the frequency values move up a bit. i.e. the 150Hz (266 µfd) blockers cutoff frequency is actually around 244Hz.

[nkemp]

First, thanks to everyone for helping. The new speakers are installed and sounding much better.

Also, you may want to read my post on making front speaker installation easy: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8110-Front-speaker-replacement-made-easy&p=119507#post119507

Nick

[dmruschell]

Considering this thread never seems to completely die, I don't feel so bad contributing again after 2 months of inactivity on this thread.

I just got 5786 back from its frame replacement and have had a chance to tweak my stereo a bit. I described the configuration in post #153 (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?572-Choices-of-speakers&p=84988&viewfull=1#post84988) a few pages back, but will reiterate the basics here as well.

I'm very happy with my stereo setup. The quick rundown is Polk 3.5" in the front, Polk 5.25" in the factory rear locations and the DMC-CA subwoofer (mine is a Pioneer) with a 200W RMS amplifier driving the sub. My head unit is a Kenwood kdc-x996 that drives the front and rear Polk speakers. To the guys talking about noisy FM receivers, this head unit receives digital radio signals, so the noise disappears and sounds like you're listening to a CD. I highly recommend any part of this setup. The head unit has high pass filters on the fronts and rears and a low pass filter on the sub (though "through" or "full range" is available on every channel), as well as a 13 band graphic EQ and many preset EQs. It has enough options to get your stereo tuned right if you have the ear for it.

After fine tuning my setup, I went and tweaked my girlfriend's Delorean's (3196) setup. Hers is a DMCH new build that has the Alpine head unit, Genesis 5 channel amp, eclipse 3.5" and 2x10" speakers with the JL subwoofer. Her head unit has one high pass filter for all the speakers and a low pass filter for the sub. The Genesis amp has more detailed filters, so I disabled most of the filters on the head unit and dialed in the sound using the filters on the Genesis amp. I got hers sounding slightly more musical than mine. The JL sub in hers is more musical sounding and blends in a little better with the other speakers. I don't mind a little extra bass in my system, so I'm very happy with how both systems sound.

The sub adds a LOT to these systems. The 2x10s in 3196 put out some decent bass, but the sub really fills it out. On my car, the sub makes up for the low power from the head unit amps and allows the head unit amps to concentrate on just the mids and highs. Both systems will get loud enough to make your ears ring without sounding too harsh.

One thing I did get to experiment on that I didn't have when I installed the stereo in my DeLroean is speakers on the rear parcel shelf. I found a parts car that a fellow owner ended up buying and parting out. He let me take a few things off of it, one of which was a rear parcel shelf board with two 6x9s on it. So, I hooked them up to the amp that was powering my sub (it's a 2 channel amp that I bridged for the sub) to see what difference it would make. I first had the low pass filter on to see if they could function as a subwoofer. While it put out some decent bass, they started to distort before the reached the volume level of the sub. However, at low volumes it sounded great. It was very musical and didn't sound like separate speakers handling the bass; everything just blended together. Next, I turned off the low pass filter and had 6 speakers all at once. It was loud, but it wasn't as good as the sub. I then turned off the rear speakers, so I just had the fronts and the parcel shelf speakers. It sounded decent, but losing the rear parcel shelf speakers lost a bit of the "surround sound" fill they can provide. I didn't get to test the parcel shelf speakers with the sub running at the same time. Maybe if I get a 4 channel amp that will fit in my DeLorean.

The verdict is that upgraded speakers (either Polks or the Eclipses) with a modern head unit will make a huge improvement to the sound in the DeLorean. I'd say that running the speakers off of the head unit is fine (especially if you're going to be adding a sub, etc) as those speakers don't handle a lot of bass anyways, unless you want that little extra oomph an external amp can provide. If you'd rather have parcel shelf speakers than a sub, I recommend using them in addition to the 4 speakers in the factory locations and treat the parcel shelf speakers like a sub using a low pass filter. Because of the awkward angles of the factory rear speakers and the parcel shelf speakers, some phase issues may occur. Keeping the frequency ranges separate (mids/highs from the rears, lows from the parcel shelf) will help eliminate these issues. However, I definitely recommend the four factory mounted speakers with the DMC-CA sub. When properly tuned, that setup sounds great, and gives your seat some thump. The passenger may not get the full effect of the sub (but would get the full effect of the parcel shelf speakers), but I usually care how it sounds more than my passenger. I have not messed with combining the sub and parcel shelf speakers. (In my 79 Corvette, I have 2 6x9's and a 10 inch sub all acting as subwoofers and it sounds amazing, so maybe it would work well in the D.)

Also, if anyone is in the northern MD/southern PA area and wants to demo either of our DeLorean sound systems and hear the sub vs parcel shelf speakers, just send me a PM. I'm an audio engineer, and including our DeLoreans, we have 5 classic cars that all have custom/upgraded stereos. It's something I like doing and helping others with.

[NightFlyer]

One thing I did get to experiment on that I didn't have when I installed the stereo in my DeLroean is speakers on the rear parcel shelf. I found a parts car that a fellow owner ended up buying and parting out. He let me take a few things off of it, one of which was a rear parcel shelf board with two 6x9s on it. So, I hooked them up to the amp that was powering my sub (it's a 2 channel amp that I bridged for the sub) to see what difference it would make. I first had the low pass filter on to see if they could function as a subwoofer. While it put out some decent bass, they started to distort before the reached the volume level of the sub. However, at low volumes it sounded great. It was very musical and didn't sound like separate speakers handling the bass; everything just blended together. Next, I turned off the low pass filter and had 6 speakers all at once. It was loud, but it wasn't as good as the sub. I then turned off the rear speakers, so I just had the fronts and the parcel shelf speakers. It sounded decent, but losing the rear parcel shelf speakers lost a bit of the "surround sound" fill they can provide. I didn't get to test the parcel shelf speakers with the sub running at the same time. Maybe if I get a 4 channel amp that will fit in my DeLorean.

I'm assuming that these are mounted on the bulkhead/firewall backing/finishing board where they fire towards the headrests/dash/windshiled, and not on the actual parcel shelf where they'd be aimed at the ceiling of the car - is that correct?

Also, how 'air sealed' are the 6x9's to the board? Although most are 'free air' speakers, you can usually get better low end responses by using either a sealed or tuned ported enclosure / mounting. Bob Zilla was working on fine tuning such a set-up before he disappeared from the community:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030429001550/http://www.deloreanparts.com/zilla_046.htm

I hope to get around to improving the sound system in my car sometime next year. I plan on retaining the stock/OEM Craig head-unit, using it as a source and pre-amp, but relying solely on external amplification to drive all the speakers.

[nkemp]

I plan on retaining the stock/OEM Craig head-unit, using it as a source and pre-amp, but relying solely on external amplification to drive all the speakers.

Are you planning on using the Craig's speaker outputs or getting into the unit and bringing out the preamp outputs?

[NightFlyer]

Are you planning on using the Craig's speaker outputs or getting into the unit and bringing out the preamp outputs?

That's a good question. Unless it proves too difficult, I'd prefer to run some dedicated rca outputs off the Craig's preamp, however, I've yet to take one apart to investigate how difficult this would be, or if I'd be able to retain all of the Craig's functional controls (fade / balance) with such a setup. The reason being that the Craig's speaker level amps are somewhat 'noisy,' and I want as clean of a signal possible going into the external amps. The tuner in the Craig is also somewhat 'noisy,' and something that I'm currently investigating as whether or not it would be possible to update with a cleaner/modern/digital tuner circuit, while maintaining full regular functionality.

I know I'm looking to do a lot here, but I really want to retain the Craig. Even if I can't 'upgrade' it, I'll settle with running the amps/speakers off the Craig's speaker level line outputs. An after market HU isn't an option for me.

In all honesty, it's really not all that important, as I plan on primarily using a portable digital audio player as a source, hooked up to a line-level input on the external amps a majority of the time, thus bypassing the Craig all together.

[dmruschell]

I'm assuming that these are mounted on the bulkhead/firewall backing/finishing board where they fire towards the headrests/dash/windshiled, and not on the actual parcel shelf where they'd be aimed at the ceiling of the car - is that correct?

Also, how 'air sealed' are the 6x9's to the board? Although most are 'free air' speakers, you can usually get better low end responses by using either a sealed or tuned ported enclosure / mounting. Bob Zilla was working on fine tuning such a set-up before he disappeared from the community:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030429001550/http://www.deloreanparts.com/zilla_046.htm

I hope to get around to improving the sound system in my car sometime next year. I plan on retaining the stock/OEM Craig head-unit, using it as a source and pre-amp, but relying solely on external amplification to drive all the speakers.

Yes, they were mounted on the finishing board and fire towards the headrests. They are air sealed to the board itself. Of course, the mounting of the actual board is not air tight. But, two things: 1) you don't want a truly 100% air tight seal around the rear of the speakers. If there is, altitude changes can cause the center of the speaker movement to change position and possibly damage the speakers. Though most "air tight" seals aren't completely air tight anyways, so that usually isn't a problem. 2) I bought a custom speaker box or my 79 Corvette that has 3 sealed compartments: 2 for the 6x9s and one for a 10" sub. When I installed the box, I only had my 6x9s and hadn't bought the sub yet. I actually used the amp that is now in my DeLorean to drive those 6x9s since I had it lying around. The performance of the 6x9s mounted in the speaker box was virtually identical to the performance of the speakers mounted on the firewall backing in the parcel shelf of the DeLorean. It sounded good at low volume, but it couldn't keep up with a sub at high volume. In the 79, I added a sub and it sounds amazing (which is why I'm a little curious to try out the combination on the DeLorean, though it sounds great with just the sub).

On adding external amplifiers to the Craig (you probably know this, but I'll sayit for everyone's benefit), make sure to get an amp/amps with built in high pass and low pass filters for each of the sets of speakers you'll be running (3 for fronts, rears, and sub, for example). Since the Craig doesn't have any of those features and won't have a dedicated subwoofer output, you'll need those to tune your system properly :)

[aipri]

Wow, what a fantastic thread! I was literally a few clicks away from just conforming and ordering some 3.5's for the fronts until I saw some of the posts about the custom kick panel enclosures. Does DMC-CA still sell them? It appears the links posted back in the day no longer exist, if so anyone know how much they are? Also any more pics? For some reason I dismissed the idea of custom kick panels and never thought to use that little space, great idea. I am now psyched at the possibility of doing 5.25 or 6.5 components in the front with the woofer mounted in that enclosure and the tweeter in the dash. Every car I've had I always did 6.5 component speakers run off of a good amp, so having to go down to 3.5s was really bumming me out. I have some Boston Acoustics 6.5 Pros that would be awesome in the D!

[dmruschell]

Wow, what a fantastic thread! I was literally a few clicks away from just conforming and ordering some 3.5's for the fronts until I saw some of the posts about the custom kick panel enclosures. Does DMC-CA still sell them? It appears the links posted back in the day no longer exist, if so anyone know how much they are? Also any more pics? For some reason I dismissed the idea of custom kick panels and never thought to use that little space, great idea. I am now psyched at the possibility of doing 5.25 or 6.5 components in the front with the woofer mounted in that enclosure and the tweeter in the dash. Every car I've had I always did 6.5 component speakers run off of a good amp, so having to go down to 3.5s was really bumming me out. I have some Boston Acoustics 6.5 Pros that would be awesome in the D!

I know they still make the sub, so I would hope they would make the enclosures too. I see you're a fellow DMA member; I think the same guy in the DMA who makes the custom rear panels has made kick panel enclosures, so that might be an alternative if DMC CA has discontinued them. If you do get them installed, I'd love to hear it if were at a DMA event together.

[aipri]

Thanks for the info, I will have to call them and see what I can find out. That is definitely the route I want to go though. Worst case I know some good custom installers that I used to work with back in my retail days that I am sure could make some custom fiberglass enclosures. I'm pretty sure I met you at the tech day at Justin's house during the summer.

[dmruschell]

Thanks for the info, I will have to call them and see what I can find out. That is definitely the route I want to go though. Worst case I know some good custom installers that I used to work with back in my retail days that I am sure could make some custom fiberglass enclosures. I'm pretty sure I met you at the tech day at Justin's house during the summer.

I remember you now, and my girlfriend said "Oh! I like him!" when I asked if she remembered meeting you. I have my DeLorean back from its frame replacement so I don't have to bring my grilfriend's DeLorean or a Corvette to DMA events :P I definitely want to see what you end up doing with your stereo if/when you have it done, either at the holiday party or spring social. I'm an audio engineer, so if you need any help tuning your system, I'd love to help.

[aipri]

I remember you now, and my girlfriend said "Oh! I like him!" when I asked if she remembered meeting you. I have my DeLorean back from its frame replacement so I don't have to bring my grilfriend's DeLorean or a Corvette to DMA events :P I definitely want to see what you end up doing with your stereo if/when you have it done, either at the holiday party or spring social. I'm an audio engineer, so if you need any help tuning your system, I'd love to help.

Haha! Yeah it was cool meeting you guys, looking forward to seeing everyone again. I should be able to make it the holiday party but I doubt I will have anything done by then. Maybe by spring. That's cool thanks for the offer! I'm definitely not an engineer but I sold/installed car audio for awhile, looking forward to putting a system together again. I wish I hadn't sold off most of my spare gear. I do still have a JL Audio 500/5 amp, I am thinking of using that and doing components in the front and either the 8 in cubby OR maybe do a custom fiberglass enclosure/amp rack on the cargo shelf with JL 10W3 that I have, ah the possibilities. My concern is the rattling that will accompany putting a powerful system in a 30 yr old car. BTW sorry everyone for hijacking this thread lol.