General Building New AC Panel Faceplate [Archive] - DMCTalk Forum

Bitsyncmaster

01-13-2013, 05:21 AM

I'm going to attempt to build a new AC panel faceplate so I can do custom LED illumination.

Since the OEM plastic plate is no longer available, I'm starting with a clean flat 1/4" thick Lexan sheet. My guess is the OEM parts were used up for melted plates from the lamps staying on all the time. Also you should remove the shifter plate before you remove the AC panel or you risk breaking the plastic and damaging the decal.

For now I plan to stick the the currently available fascia decal. I think you can make a custom one pretty easy by making colored labels and just making a black layer with cutouts to cover them.

There are four standoffs on the OEM plate the hold it in the correct location and correct distance from the metal mounting plate. The two light switches also have a ring to hold the distance but I don't think I will need those with my thicker Lexan plate. This will give me a little more than a 1/4" to mount a circuit board with LEDs and drivers (resistors or constant current circuits).

This is a project I've always planned to do. I still have incandescent bulbs in my AC panel. I never liked the result using LED bulb replacements.

kajcienski

01-13-2013, 02:44 PM

Hi Dave! Not sure if you have seen my threads on this very subject but I have actually created a mold for the original faceplate as well as made a mold for a custom faceplate, one of which I have converted into a self contained LED backlight panel in my car now. Just plugs into any of the existing light sockets. You are describing a different non-mold approach and looking forward to seeing your results! It can definitely be done and is great to stare at a completely even backlight on top of emitting no heat - really refines it. I also have a custom graphic overlay thread after months of experimenting. It is not as easy as you might plan to get it looking or functioning remotely how it is suppose to. I would be happy to share with you how I reproduced an overlay virtually identical to how they really look, light up, and feel. Let me know or just check out my thread below - a picture of the final install is on page 8. Hopefully some of my early mistakes will be of some use!

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?2590-New-A-C-Panel-Design-Prototype-Thoughts-Suggestions/page8&highlight=Custom+graphic+overlay

Bitsyncmaster

01-13-2013, 03:12 PM

I did read your very interesting thread. I need a faceplate without the back "light pipes" molded into it since I'm going to place many SMT LEDs aiming directly to the front. I did like my older overlay better than the one sold at DMCH but I can work with that new one. I am adding a green "fans on" light but may be able to do it with the fan fail location.

My plan is just to cut all the existing holes which will take a little experimenting working with Lexan. Then make some standoffs (probably aluminum) for the four corners. Apply the decal, and start placing LEDs on a prototype board also cut to match the face plate.

kajcienski

01-13-2013, 03:30 PM

I think there would be a huge demand for a new LED light panel (faceplate). I can't see anyone not wanting an "even lighting" option to the original! My approach was too time consuming to make it practical for sale - but achieves the goal. Please post as many step-by-step pics of your lighting panel construction as you can. Good luck and looking forward!

Ryan King

01-14-2013, 10:55 PM

I already want one from you, Dave

Bitsyncmaster

01-17-2013, 07:00 PM

Got my Lexan today. It cut very nice on my bandsaw. Over the weekend I'm going to try drilling the holes with hole saws. I have an oscillating spindle sander I can use to get the holes to final size. I also got some red and amber LEDs. I may have to use some white LEDs also for the red and blue that are close to each other.

Bitsyncmaster

01-18-2013, 06:16 PM

Got the 5 large holes "drilled". I made a 1/4" center hole with a brad point twist drill, then used a 0.251" reamer to be sure the hole was a little bigger than the 1/4" hole saw guide shaft. Make sure when drilling, you have the lexan held tightly down on the drill press table or it will grab when it breaks through (ask me how I know). The hole saws start cutting very nice but then the teeth will fill up with melted plastic. So you have to stop many times to clean the teeth.

I think I will make some standoffs with an 1/8" center pin so I can drill a guide hole that fits onto the lexan panel. That way when the standoffs are glued on I will know they are in the correct position. I was going to use a flat head screw but I want to put the decal on before the standoffs are on so I and finish all the sanding of the lexan with a flat surface. Need the decal to guide the sanding.

Also wondering if the indicator "lights" will need a hole painted black to prevent light "bleed through" from the lights beside it.

Spittybug

01-18-2013, 06:39 PM

Dave, have you considered edge lighting with SMOLEDS? If you polished the walls of your holes and the perimeter of the Lexan, the light would travel through it and come out.... If the writing on the panel were actually etched it, then these too would glow......Technically tough to do (I've tried), but would be cool.

Bitsyncmaster

01-18-2013, 06:48 PM

I think light through plastic only illuminates if the surface is not polished "frosted". But that's just my guess. My LEDs will be directly illuminating the translucent images of the decal. Still need to test this idea on my prototype. There is not much room to move the LEDs back to get more area illuminated. I may need a 100 LEDs running at very low currents.

vwdmc16

01-18-2013, 09:18 PM

Pics Dave! we need pics!

Bitsyncmaster

01-19-2013, 04:04 PM

Not much to see yet but the panel is ready to play with some LEDs. Still need to do the standoffs but that can wait.

Ryan King

01-19-2013, 05:13 PM

Beautiful. I am excited to see how this turns out

Bitsyncmaster

01-30-2013, 05:41 PM

I decided to layout a circuit board rather than do a complete prototype board. So today I pulled the "radio" bracket so I could measure up dimensions. Also using the OEM plastic faceplate to get measurements.

My plan is to use the existing standoff locations for mounting the PCB directly on the metal bracket. I will cut holes to clear any switches mounted on the plate (fan switch). I'm thinking of mounting LEDs on the PCB to light up the knob arrows so that fan switch will need LEDs mounted on the PCB with wires to extend them over the required cutout in the board.

The PCB with be 1/32" thick so it may even work with the stock plastic face plate but you would need to remove the white paint and cut the three indicator bulb mounts off.

That metal back plate (radio bracket) sure is a flimsy thing. This is the first time I have removed it. Need to do a lot of clean up of the wiring behind it from PO modifications.

john 05141

01-31-2013, 04:05 AM

Dave, I am actually very worried...

Worried you're gonna make me very jealous with that illumination you're making.
I have nice blue LED's in the AC panel, and new LED's the the hazard and light switch but the AC panel illumination is fairly poor. I had the face plates in my hands a few weeks ago and I noticed the PO had put white paint on the clear plastic (at the reverse side of course) to probably better guide the lights, but even then you can only see the light when it is very dark.

I'm very interested in the results of your set-up.

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

01-31-2013, 05:04 AM

john 05141

02-01-2013, 03:15 AM

Oh, I tougt the PO did this. That explains why it actualy looks like it was done in a hurry.

Seems very logical to me what you want to do. I hope to see pics (especially before and after ones)
Good luck with that!

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

02-01-2013, 06:14 AM

Real pain getting the center lines of the holes for all the parts (switches, standoffs screw holes) by measurement. I'm sure I can get it close enough to work but sure wish I had the drawing for those part locations. I will probably do a 10 board order without the cutouts to save money. Then I will have to machine the cutouts myself. Don't think this will be a high demand product since the cost would be high.

kajcienski

02-01-2013, 09:15 AM

I can't wait to see this! Just an observation and feel your pain BTW... When I made a mold for my own custom LED panel and graphic overlay, I noticed that the holes for the lights and hazards were not 100% symmetrical in their relative positions. The measurements for the stock setup are not entirely exact (at least mine was like this). They are not way off, but enough to drive the OCD a bit nuts. I am excited to see your progress! Can you post pictures of what you have so far?

On another note - are you doing direct LED illumination from the back? (meaning the LEDs face towards the decal?) I hope I am explaining this right but I had a hard time getting my first attempt not to look "spotty" when illuminated. I tried to play with distance from the decal to diffuse the light but there is only so much room. I ended up going with high density LED ribbon mounted on its side following the contour of where light needed to be projected (indirect lighting). This diffused the light for a super even illumination. You are the electronics guru though and am crossing my fingers you will nail this project down and find the perfect solution! :) May our stock light panels never have sub-standard illumination again! Woohoo!

Keep up the great work!

Real pain getting the center lines of the holes for all the parts (switches, standoffs screw holes) by measurement. I'm sure I can get it close enough to work but sure wish I had the drawing for those part locations. I will probably do a 10 board order without the cutouts to save money. Then I will have to machine the cutouts myself. Don't think this will be a high demand product since the cost would be high.

Bitsyncmaster

02-01-2013, 12:25 PM

I can't wait to see this! Just an observation and feel your pain BTW... When I made a mold for my own custom LED panel and graphic overlay, I noticed that the holes for the lights and hazards were not 100% symmetrical in their relative positions. The measurements for the stock setup are not entirely exact (at least mine was like this). They are not way off, but enough to drive the OCD a bit nuts. I am excited to see your progress! Can you post pictures of what you have so far?

On another note - are you doing direct LED illumination from the back? (meaning the LEDs face towards the decal?) I hope I am explaining this right but I had a hard time getting my first attempt not to look "spotty" when illuminated. I tried to play with distance from the decal to diffuse the light but there is only so much room. I ended up going with high density LED ribbon mounted on its side following the contour of where light needed to be projected (indirect lighting). This diffused the light for a super even illumination. You are the electronics guru though and am crossing my fingers you will nail this project down and find the perfect solution! :) May our stock light panels never have sub-standard illumination again! Woohoo!

Keep up the great work!

Yes my plan is to use LEDs mounted directly facing and behind each letter or number on the decal. The trick is to get the LEDs moved as far back as possible to eliminate spots of light. I'm also using surface mount tiny LED with very wide angle light. I should have the base layout done this weekend. Then I can start placing the LEDs on the base board. Still remains to be seen if the stock face plate will work with my new PCB board. My guess is it will work but you would have to remove that white paint.

Bitsyncmaster

02-03-2013, 07:52 AM

Got the center line positions of all the components. Took to many hours to do this. The large cut out for the fan switch is just a plastic spacer they used to lift the switch to the correct depth. So if need be, I can cut that down. I'm just concerned with mounting the LEDs for the knob arrows there. Now I can start placing the LEDs and resistors.

Bitsyncmaster

02-03-2013, 08:30 AM

I was checking the gap of the Fan Knob from the front panel and it looks way to much at 3/16".

Can some of you guys check your clearance gaps? (how far the knob is off the front panel).

I never noted this before but never really looked at it. I can't check the other two knobs since I have my mounting plate removed. I know the heat control also has a spacer to set the distance but the vacuum switch is a fixed part.

DrJeff

02-03-2013, 04:26 PM

Bitsyncmaster

02-03-2013, 05:39 PM

To faceplate surface...
- Fan (back of) 3.5mm
- Mode switch 2.5mm
- Temperature 3mm

Jeff

Thanks for measuring. Looks like I will remove that large spacer on the fan switch. Then if I need the knob moved out just put a shim in the knob.

1batt4u

02-04-2013, 11:10 AM

Thanks for measuring. Looks like I will remove that large spacer on the fan switch. Then if I need the knob moved out just put a shim in the knob.

I noticed that also when I started working on the double-din faceplate. If and when I get them going I will make it so just the switch is in there not the plastic piece.

Jack

02-04-2013, 11:21 AM

Yes my fan switch stood out alot also, I just removed the white spacer and put it behind the console bracket.

Bitsyncmaster

02-04-2013, 03:59 PM

Yes my fan switch stood out alot also, I just removed the white spacer and put it behind the console bracket.

I'm going to glue my fan switch in with RTV. That clamp that holds it does nothing. I also may add another shim on the TEMP "switch" to pull it back if needed.

My circuit board will pull all the knobs a little closer anyway 1/32" of an inch.

Bitsyncmaster

02-05-2013, 05:32 AM

Started placing the LEDs. Found out the front decals are not really cut and lettered to perfectly match the OEM plastic plate. The current decal DMCH sells the fan switch is shifted left a little but the rest of the decal looks perfect. The old decal I had, most of the switch centers are all off a little also. Also looks like the decals were designed by hand placement of the lettering because mathematically (distance and angle) shows errors in the letter placement. I don't think this tolerance will be a problem since I'm mounting the LEDs back the full length of the OEM standoffs.

1batt4u

02-05-2013, 11:22 AM

I'm going to glue my fan switch in with RTV. That clamp that holds it does nothing. I also may add another shim on the TEMP "switch" to pull it back if needed.

My circuit board will pull all the knobs a little closer anyway 1/32" of an inch.

Why don't you put something between the panel and switch, so it can press against it?

I plan on making mine thick on that side, so that the panel just on that sides sits on the switch and doesn't move.

Bitsyncmaster

02-05-2013, 04:52 PM

Why don't you put something between the panel and switch, so it can press against it?

I plan on making mine thick on that side, so that the panel just on that sides sits on the switch and doesn't move.

RTV is an easy way to hold parts in. It also is not hard to remove if you need to. My radio box (braket) also is held in with RTV. It just takes a long time to set up when you put on a thick bead.

Bitsyncmaster

02-06-2013, 06:35 AM

Placing the FAN LEDs and the right side of the mode switch LEDs was not a problem. One LED under each position.

Now the long words and the ring around the temp switch......how many LEDs to use on each word?

I wish the PCB cost for one board was not so high ($279) compared to $4.59 each for 100 boards. It's almost silly not to order large quantities. I think the light will also bleed over into the clear ring to illuminate the knob arrows so I don't plan to use LEDs just for the knob illumination. I sanded the paint off one knob arrow to test that. I'm now at 45 LEDs but have to decide if that's to aggressive. I still can play with trying to add a diffuser to spread the light. Maybe using the OEM plastic plate with it's light pipes (paint removed) will also diffuse the light but I need a finished board to decide.

john 05141

02-07-2013, 05:56 AM

So if someone joins you in it, you already pay less for yours if you order 100. I'm sure there are many people interested, I know I am!!
But how can you tell it is not going to be over-illuminated? My dimmer is only in there cosmetically, since I have LED's in the instrument cluster. Maybe the option to dim is still very easy?

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

02-07-2013, 05:19 PM

I'm still going forward with this project. I've put in to much work to stop now. I will probably order 10 to 20 boards so if other people want to experiment at cost. If it turns out looking good, I may build a few boards from this first order.

Not my plan to go full production but that may change depending on the results. I've placed all the LEDs by calculations, now I will print (plot) the result on clear acetate and lay it over the decal. Then I can move the LEDs to match the real decal.

I can adjust the brightness of each string of LEDs with different resistor values.

john 05141

02-08-2013, 04:04 AM

Bitsyncmaster

02-08-2013, 06:05 AM

The only thing I am thinking of is that (in may case anyway) the AC plate does not fit snugly into the console, so there are some openings here and there. I think many Deloreans have that. It will not lookso good when the light comles thru there.
But I am interested in joining you in that! Is there a possibility I can see more or less what your final result might be?

Jan

The OEM faceplate should have black foam on the sides and top to seal off light. The hole cutouts for the switches also have black paint to also seal off the light. The decal should also cover completely the front (maybe a little more). You could use some black touch up paint if that is where your problems are. I know you like the blue LEDs to replace the green tint decal. I've found the blue will work in that case but may just need more current in those strings than a green LED string. I'm not sure what I'm doing with the red/blue areas. Of course the HEAT and COOL words can be red and blue LEDs but the ring may be white LEDs to get both red and blue.

Also thinking of making the fan symbol (far right side) to be an indicator of the radiator fans on. I built my fan fail unit with a -5 volt signal driving the fan fail light. That lets me use that signal to turn on an LED when the fans are on and not indicating a fan fail.

Bitsyncmaster

02-09-2013, 10:55 AM

Here is what is looks like so far. LED placement is pretty close to done. Need to add the resistors, connector (will be wires to a small connector) and routes.

DMC5180

02-09-2013, 05:04 PM

What color spectrum LED do you plan on trying. I see issues with the HOT/COLD arcs because of color bleeding.

Bitsyncmaster

02-09-2013, 05:46 PM

What color spectrum LED do you plan on trying. I see issues with the HOT/COLD arcs because of color bleeding.

I'm thinking of using white on those. Considered using red an blue but the LED count just gets to high. Of cours the green will be most of the LEDs with red and amber for the indicators.

DMC5180

02-10-2013, 06:33 PM

I'm thinking of using white on those. Considered using red an blue but the LED count just gets to high. Of cours the green will be most of the LEDs with red and amber for the indicators.

You may want to try (natural white) color spectrum. Theoretically it should replicate incandescent backlighting.

Bitsyncmaster

02-10-2013, 07:15 PM

You may want to try (natural white) color spectrum. Theoretically it should replicate incandescent backlighting.

I can play with a lot of LED colors. These 0805 size chips are pretty common so lots of vendors. I placed the resistors to day and did an autoroute. This is a real easy board to route. I let it route some grounds on the back side but out metal plate it will be mounted to is insulated anyway with a vinyl covering.

john 05141

02-12-2013, 04:08 AM

Bitsyncmaster

02-12-2013, 04:33 AM

I think it is nice to combine the red and blue.
I have a fan on warning as well. it is the rear window defrost light that lights up.
I also feel those lights are fairly strong... Like the door lock warning light as well. The light switch had a blue LED and the hazard a red led inside.

jan

If we could produce our own decal the possibilities are endless. There are some open spaces that you could add additional indicator lights. I was thinking of using the defrost for my wide band power setting indicator. I should be close to ordering the PCB boards by the end of week. Think I will only order 10 boards at $35 each.

john 05141

02-13-2013, 04:32 AM

Bitsyncmaster

02-13-2013, 04:50 AM

If I understand this correct, the it is just the PCboard, nothing else.
So I need to solder on the LED lights, right?

Does it work with the current AC-plate and decal?
Does it need any more resistors to make it work on 12V?

You can already reserve me one of those boards.

Jan

Yes this 10 board order is just bare PC boards. I will hand solder the LEDs and resistors on the boards. I'm going to test the OEM faceplate first without removing the white paint (don't think that will work) then sanding off that white paint. I think sanding that white paint off the back of the "light pipes" should make it work with the OEM. I have my flat face plate to test also but that would need standoffs glued to it.

john 05141

02-14-2013, 03:21 AM

Bitsyncmaster

02-14-2013, 05:57 AM

allright, can't wait.
strangely enough, sanding the surface might improve the spread of light becasue of the uneven surface.
Were you planning to recoat lighpips after the LED's are in place?

PM sent

Jan

Since the LEDs will be centered over the light pipes, you would not want to coat them with anything. Probably the frosted surface the sanding produces will be better than a polished surface. We will see when I get the boards to test. You will get light into the light pipes from the sides also but I guess that will not be enough to not sand off the paint. I will just use some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper with my fingers to sand off the paint. I usually wet sand most every thing under running water to keep the sandpaper from filling up.

john 05141

02-14-2013, 10:10 AM

Still need to know if the decal I have now is good with this new system.

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

02-14-2013, 04:37 PM

Still need to know if the decal I have now is good with this new system.

Jan

This PCB was laid out with the new decal but I don't think the tolerances with each decal layout will not make it work with any of them.

Bitsyncmaster

02-15-2013, 05:02 PM

Placed the order today for 10 boards. Here is the final result. I still will have to cut those square holes by hand and drill a large round hole for the temp knob.

Ryan King

02-19-2013, 12:54 AM

Placed the order today for 10 boards. Here is the final result. I still will have to cut those square holes by hand and drill a large round hole for the temp knob.

I skimmed the last few pages, but any word on a cost? Depending on that, reserve one for me!

Bitsyncmaster

02-19-2013, 04:56 AM

I skimmed the last few pages, but any word on a cost? Depending on that, reserve one for me!

Well my board cost is $37.?? each and blue LEDs cost 50 cents each with other colors costing less. Need to price the small connector and some short wire for that. It takes 6 wires to install (splice). It still remains to decide if I go into production on these but selling these boards off helps keep my R&D cost down. Who knows, It may not work and I will be out all that cost.

john 05141

02-20-2013, 03:25 AM

of course it'll work...

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

02-20-2013, 04:50 AM

They completed and shipped the PCBs faster than expected (I ordered one week turn). They should be here on Thursday. To bad I'm leaving on a ski trip next week.

Morpheus

02-20-2013, 05:29 PM

Count me in for one of these, Dave!

Bitsyncmaster

02-22-2013, 07:40 AM

Got the boards. They look nice. First thing I had to do was cut the three indicator (fan fail, rear defrost and lock doors) tubes down on the OEM faceplate. Just used a saw and then sanded with my Dremel. I thought the dust may get stuck on the decal since there is no plastic on those locations but it just blew out with air. Now we know why those spots will get hot running incandescent bulbs.

I will try got get the square holes cut soon so I can start mounting the LEDs on the board for testing.

Bitsyncmaster

02-23-2013, 09:38 AM

I forgot to order the white LEDs.:smashfreak:

Got all the other components soldered on the board and to my surprise it lights through the OEM faceplate without removing the white paint. But you get a few areas of LED light that are brighter than others. I will sand that white paint off and try again.

I set the current on each string (15 strings) some 3 LEDs some 2 LEDs to 3.6 ma. at 13.5 volts. So total current will be 54 ma. Not sure yet if that will be the final current setting.

Will try to get some photos posted but in the past, photos of LEDs don't come out to good.

Bitsyncmaster

02-23-2013, 10:13 AM

Hooked up the indicators, fan fail, rear defrost, and lock doors. That new decal has very small lettering so they don't show up very bright. I bumped that current up and did not see any difference in the LED intensity. So looks like I will be looking for brighter red and amber LEDs for those.

Don't like that new decal for that reason.

Farrar

02-23-2013, 10:55 AM

Bitsyncmaster

02-23-2013, 12:15 PM

Hi, Dave. Where are you buying your LEDs? I dunno about amber but I know Radio Shack sells "high intensity" red LEDs. I think they're 5-7mm in diameter, maybe? Anyway, I am following this project with interest and look forward to seeing the results. Best wishes!

I'm useing the surface mount LED chips and solering onto my circuit board.

Here are some photos. OEM panel still has white paint. Some of my LED strings are dead because no white LEDs yet.

Farrar

02-23-2013, 12:46 PM

They look beautiful, Dave!

Another quick question, if I may: will the "cooling fan fail" light blink?

Bitsyncmaster

02-23-2013, 01:05 PM

They look beautiful, Dave!

Another quick question, if I may: will the "cooling fan fail" light blink?

Cooling fan fail works with my Fan Fail or the OEM unit. My Fan Fail Blinks if one or both fans have less than 2 amps current. The light stays on when current differences are outside your setting of 20 or 30%.

I did a quick sanding of the white paint which comes off pretty easy with 320 grit wet sanding. I still will sand some more to get it all off the sides of the light pipes but it looks very good with back side sanded off. Lights look very even now. I may need to cut the green current back some since it looks to bright.

When I get back from my ski trip, I will be able to finish this up with a little more work. I will order white LEDs and look for some brighter red ones tomorrow.

Bitsyncmaster

02-24-2013, 06:34 AM

I really should be packing for my ski trip but had to do some more playing with this design. I ordered some brighter RED LEDs but still think they will not satisfy my want of that fan fail to be very noticeable. The other red locations are fine but it's so important to let the driver know of the fan fail. I'm thinking the black tube for the fan fail could be painted silver inside to help but that would have to be done without the decal mounted on the panel. One other option is I can use the LEDs I used for my third brake light. The white LEDs I ordered may also work better since they have more light output than the red ones.

One other noticeable thing is I can see the red/blue ring around the temperature set knob does show bright spots where each LED is mounted. I should have used twice as many LEDs on that ring design. Just looking for perfection but may play with that. I'm pleased with all the other lighting.

One other bad thing with this new decal is I get some chipping of the black "paint" on corners. The old decal had the black paint under the decal and not on the surface. I will have to look for some touch up paint.

Bitsyncmaster

02-24-2013, 07:26 AM

I forgot to comment on the knob "arrows". With the paint sanded off the arrows, they light up very bright. Colors are the same green on the fan and function knobs and the temp knob is red turned far left and blue turned far right.

Ryan King

02-24-2013, 11:52 AM

Looks fantastic!

But when you say you are ording white leds, is that to replace the green?

Bitsyncmaster

02-24-2013, 12:30 PM

Looks fantastic!

But when you say you are ording white leds, is that to replace the green?

My plan is to use white for the blended red/blue areas. I'm still in the experimental stage. I did replace the amber (rear defog) LEDs with orange LEDs and like the result.

Lots of options with these LEDs. There are slightly different color frequencies from lots of manufacturers.

Bitsyncmaster

03-07-2013, 06:23 AM

I tested using white LEDs where the red and blue are merging colors and don't like the result. The red gets washed out and looks pink. Same result using a red and blue LED under those merging colors. Tried Just red and then the blue looks more like green.

I'm going to try some "warm" white LEDs but so far it looks like red will just be placed under the merging red/blue locations.

It's that new Decal. The new one the reds have an almost pink filter on it. The older decal the filter is more red.

john 05141

03-07-2013, 11:01 AM

Which is the "new" decal?
I can immagine the pink color, and I agree that is not ideal.
Did you make a picture by any chance?

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

03-07-2013, 12:16 PM

Which is the "new" decal?
I can immagine the pink color, and I agree that is not ideal.
Did you make a picture by any chance?

Jan

The decal is the one DMCH is selling. Think these are NOS for later build cars. I guess the incandescent lights produce that same pink. I'm still playing with LEDs to get the best results but I'm thinking red LEDs will reduce the pink but then it fades out the blue. With blue LEDs replacing the green ones it may not be a problem. Of course if I machined the light pipes off I could put a light blocking divider but I was trying to keep the faceplate stock.

1batt4u

03-07-2013, 12:39 PM

That's an awesome set up Dave!! I like it!!

I was thinking if you can make those for the Double-Din set up I want to get together and sell.

DMC5180

03-07-2013, 03:50 PM

I still run the oem bulb in lower left corner because the LED washed out the ring.

---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=46.838509,-92.201637

SS Spoiler

03-07-2013, 04:07 PM

Dennis, how long is your commute....Duluth/Reedsburg?

kajcienski

03-07-2013, 04:44 PM

Great progress on this and super job so far! I don't know if I am totally missing something concerning why you would really need to use colored LEDs, but I made a one-off custom LED backlight panel (a different, more DIY approach to the slick one in this thread), and have had no problems with the "white" LED light making the decal color look any different than when it was stock. In fact, it looks great. I used micro LED ribbon and mounted it along the various light tubes edges - sideways, facing the light in towards the center of the tube (to avoid any light spots from directly behind), yields bright and totally even colored light (at least to my eye). I don't notice that any of the color gels on the decal look washed out or dim. Granted, it looks nowhere near as pretty from the back side as the one here will, and my approach couldn't really be mass produced as there is a craft to mounting the ribbon on the stock panel, but worked great for me. That being said, why is it important in theory to use colored LEDs when the white ones, in my experience, work just fine? It would avoid any issue of light color bleeding and such. Keep up he amazing work and hope you nail it!

Farrar

03-07-2013, 04:55 PM

Of course if I machined the light pipes off I could put a light blocking divider but I was trying to keep the faceplate stock.

Sounds like a small modification, though -- thin piece of aluminum to both prevent bleeding and reflect light, right?

Bitsyncmaster

03-07-2013, 06:40 PM

The green looks perfect. Very even, very bright (I may need to drop the power). I had the old decal which has deep red and deep blue filtering so I'm disappointed in the "weak" colors on the new decal. I'm sure I'm just to picky since this is my new project. Also pretty sure it would look the same with standard incandescent bulbs.

You use the colored LEDs to get richer colors and if it matches the filter then you don't attenuate any of the light.

kajcienski

03-07-2013, 06:43 PM

AdmiralSenn

03-08-2013, 04:41 PM

Ryan King

03-08-2013, 04:53 PM

Bitsyncmaster

03-08-2013, 05:18 PM

It would probably cost me about $600 to produce 100 bare boards for each one that needs changes. But I don't think there is much difference in the board layout since the light pipes have to be the same on all the decals. I do wish I could get my original decal which I kept but pulling it off the faceplate pulled some black paint off it. The original, all the black paint is under the decal. The NOS ones DMCH is selling the black paint is on top.

After my unit is installed, I will produce one with blue LEDs replacing the green LEDs.

kajcienski

03-08-2013, 11:43 PM

Color me interested.

Is the decal going to come with it or is there interest in reproducing the various styles? I like the results enough that I would probably give up my original decal but if it were possible to duplicate exactly that would be ideal. Maybe we should all chip in and get a small run of each style made.

I checked heavily into repro decals when making my custom fascia. I peed my pants a bit when the quote for 10 prototypes was $6k from several companies. I then figured out how to do this on my own, but is extremely involved and not worth mass production - just "one-offs". However, I was working on a thin overlay to glue over the original that will make it look new and virtually original. It freshened the surface completely but relied on the "black-out" properties of the original decal. Also, I only did 1 decal type, the one most people like though. Have not perfected one aspect of glue peeling the ink layer off on the thin overlay version if miss-handled, but close. If careful, looks great installed, but can't gaurantee. Happy to print for anyone at own risk though.

Bitsyncmaster

03-09-2013, 08:11 AM

What I decided on doing was put red LEDs on the left half of the ring around the temp control, blue on the right half. I also put a red LED only under the two bars (red and blue) on the mode switch. That way I get no pink colors. I will post photos later.

If I do the PCB over, I would put twice as many LEDs for the ring around the temp control and reduce the current in those LEDs. That would reduce the "dots" of light I see in the ring looking strait onto the panel. But you don't see those dots in the drivers seat at that angle. I did make one mistake on the door lock light. That needs two wires (does not use ground) bit that was an easy fix.

Also the indicators still don't show up enough for me at the drivers seat angle. They used a font that was to small on that new decal. I'm going to pull that decal off and paint the indicator light tubes silver to try to increase the brightness. Of course that decal will be trashed when I pull it.

Also for you guys designing a back light project....some info.
The LED brightness changes almost none using 2 ma. or 15 ma. of current. Also found even though different manufactures spec higher lumens, they look the same brightness as low spec LEDs. I also see no difference using the OEM faceplate with the light pipes as my flat lexan panel without the light pipes.

Bitsyncmaster

03-09-2013, 02:53 PM

Here are some photos. The unit is ready to install. As always......hard to really see LED results with a photo.

Ron

03-09-2013, 02:55 PM

:thumbup:
EXCELLENT job, as usual, Dave!

Dangermouse

03-09-2013, 07:35 PM

Looks fantastic Dave, can't wait to see it in the car.

Bitsyncmaster

03-10-2013, 02:47 PM

Started wiring my LED board. The board has a 7 pin connector but only 6 wires are required. These are very little pins and there for only have 22 AWG wire in the cable. Also to note is when you pull or insert the connector you need to hold the board near the mating connector so you don't break the board (only 0.032" thick board).

I like to remove old wiring back to any existing junctions in the OEM harness. The old wiring is 19 AWG so I'm using butt terminals rated for 22 to 18 AWG. I strip the 22 AWG wire long and fold over the wire to give me more to crimp to. Since this is all exposed, I also solder the terminal. Don't forget to use some 320 grit sandpaper to clean up the old copper wire. Also don't forget the shrink tubing before you crimp both ends.

Bitsyncmaster

03-10-2013, 03:41 PM

Finished the wiring. The fan fail light wire is black/orange, it should be brown/purple. :rolleyes1:

By the way the diode on the lock door light is right near the light.

Guess I will power up (connect the battery) and test the lights before I put the radio bracket back in.

1batt4u

03-10-2013, 04:08 PM

Here are some photos. The unit is ready to install. As always......hard to really see LED results with a photo.

WoW! That is awesome!! Great job!! 8)

dmc4087

03-11-2013, 12:53 PM

That looks great, do you plan to make a few to sell?

Bitsyncmaster

03-11-2013, 05:55 PM

That looks great, do you plan to make a few to sell?

Still to early to tell if I go into full production. If demand is high I probably will. Still hard to find time to finish my car with these grand babies every day.

Bitsyncmaster

03-11-2013, 07:58 PM

Bitsyncmaster

03-12-2013, 12:10 PM

Dang. I put those two small screws for the mode switch somewhere so I would not loose them and can't remember where I put them. Anyone know the size of those screws? They are about the size of a 4-40 but it's a metric thread pitch. I may be able to find some at work.

Looks like those screw are not 3 mm 0.50 pitch. I think they may be smaller. So these would be special order to get 2.7 or 2.5 mm screws. I may just re tap for a 4-40.

Bitsyncmaster

03-12-2013, 06:46 PM

I used a bottoming 4-40 tap to thread the mode switch for screws I can get. The 4-40 is a little smaller than a 3 mm screw. It worked very good.

I was going to use one of those switch screws to hold the board to the metal but decided to make a new screw hole and use a sheet metal screw to hold the board down. I could really go without the screw but then you would have to play installing the plastic face plate. You could not use the switch screw unless you have the console off so you can hold the switch from falling out.

Bitsyncmaster

03-12-2013, 07:30 PM

kajcienski

03-12-2013, 07:58 PM

Again, can't get good photos of LEDs but here you can see the result is a little to bright. So I will drop the currents down a little. Also note the knob lines are illuminated. You should just sand off that paint on your knob pointers but you will get white lines without colored LEDs.

Dave, that looks pretty sweet! I wasn't sure about the temp control color blending aesthetically but it is a neat look. The bleed on the bottom shouldn't be an issue with the shifter panel installed. I wonder if a gel diffuser would take car of the LED "points" on the temp graphic...? I am sure there is a solution. Great job man! Professional approach.

Ryan King

03-12-2013, 08:06 PM

Take my money, damnit!

dmc6960

03-12-2013, 11:49 PM

Most excellent indeed. This is pretty much exactly how the backlighting will be achieved with my instrument cluster project. Great work as always Dave!

john 05141

03-13-2013, 04:43 AM

Wow, I was not able to look at this formum for a few days, many things have been done.
I do not think they are that much too bright. Ideally they would dim when you turn on the headlights, but I guess that is a bit over the top and will make installatieon much more complex.
It is not necessary to see the illumination during the day, so the focus on how bright they are should be looked at when dark.
Belgian roads are illuminated at night, even some portions of highways. So it does not get pitch dark inside. I have LED's in the stock sockets, but the light is very weak.

I can nimmagine the blue will be anonther story as they do not tend to be as bright as green.
But what a great job you've done on that Dave, wow!!!!
Still in the game here!!

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

03-16-2013, 08:20 AM

I dropped the current in the LEDs from 3.6 ma to 1.9 ma (at 13.5 volts). It takes about a 2 X change in current for the eye to see a change in intensity. I'm going to look for another RED LED because the ones I'm using are not "ruby" red color (a little orange shade). I don't like any pink shades on the panel.

Here is a measured total current draw of the backlight LEDs (no fault indicators).
12.0 volts = 24.4 ma
12.5 volts = 26.6 ma
13.0 volts = 28.6 ma
13.5 volts = 30.7 ma
14.0 volts = 33.2 ma
14.5 volts = 35.4 ma
15.0 volts = 37.5 ma
Like I said current has to change 2 X to see intensity change so using resistors to set the current on this project was OK. I normally use a constant current driver but that is mostly required when running the LEDs near their max rated currents.

Yes the green LEDs are most always the brightest. Don't know if it's just the eye response or the technology of the LED makeup.

1batt4u

03-25-2013, 08:57 PM

How's this project coming along?

Bitsyncmaster

03-26-2013, 05:28 AM

I am still waiting on more LEDs to compare results. The problem is the spec sheets on LEDs is only good data when you run the rated current (20 ma). When you reduce the current like I'm doing, the specifications are not valid anymore. All the LEDs have that pin point of light at low currents. Will probably finish this week using the OEM faceplate but I also ordered some diffusing film to play with. I would probably have to go back with my new flat faceplate to use that film. What I'm looking for is an LED with a lens on it made to diffuse that pin point of light.

john 05141

03-28-2013, 05:39 AM

waiting very patiently.....:coffee:
Jan

Bitsyncmaster

03-28-2013, 06:18 AM

I tested more red LEDs and think I will stay with the first ones I installed. I would like to find the 660 nm color but the ones I've tested all have a brighter dot of light. The green are the best and the blue are almost as good as the green as far as filling the top lens of the LED.

While waiting for LEDs to be shipped, I've been machining the other 9 boards I have. Pain in the butt to cut epoxy fiber glass. It dulls saw blades and files quickly. Also have the 9 cables built, 18 inches long and will write up the color code of how to connect it.

I think my diffuser film will arrive today but I don't think that will help if using the stock faceplate. I think the film would need to be installed on the back side of the faceplate so you would need a flat surface without the light pipes.

1batt4u

03-28-2013, 02:06 PM

I think you mentioned you are also gonna make these in Blue color as well instead of just Green?

Bitsyncmaster

03-28-2013, 06:27 PM

I think you mentioned you are also gonna make these in Blue color as well instead of just Green?

I am going to build one with blue LEDs to see what it looks like. I'm still undecided if I will go into production on these but I have 10 boards from my inital build. The parts cost for these boards may just be to high to sell enough for me to break even. I already have close to $1500 in R&D design on this project but that is typical of all my projects.

john 05141

03-29-2013, 03:53 AM

I hope the blue one is still in the game. I'm in for a blue one, but Dave already knows that....
Jan

Bitsyncmaster

03-31-2013, 10:18 AM

Here is the blue one. Looks better than I expected.

DMC5180

03-31-2013, 09:29 PM

Sweet! How does it look with the Door lock, fan fail and Defrost indicators lit up? Have you tried filters yet too help flatten out the Hot spots look. I really like the Knob Markers being lit up. That's the way it should have been from the beginning.

1batt4u

04-01-2013, 01:08 AM

WoW! Very Nice!!

Bitsyncmaster

04-01-2013, 04:54 AM

It actually looks better than the photos show. The reds are not pink and the blues have not white like in the photos. The indicators have the current set at 10 ma. but I don't see much difference in intensity than the 1.9 ma the other LEDs have. I still wish the new decal had used a larger font for the letters on the indicators.

I have not tried the diffuser yet since that will not work with the stock faceplate.

I'm not sure what the results would be with one of the other decals. Probably deeper colors and maybe less intensity.

There is not an active LED under the FAN symbol in the photos but it still looks like there is one with the light pipes. I do have and active LED there but it lights with my fan fail unit when the fans are running. So it shows up when the lights are off but I was thinking I may put a blue LED there with my green LEDs. Maybe for the blue faceplate I will put a green LED there. That way you can see when your fan is running even at night.

Ryan King

04-02-2013, 02:50 AM

I am going to build one with blue LEDs to see what it looks like. I'm still undecided if I will go into production on these but I have 10 boards from my inital build. The parts cost for these boards may just be to high to sell enough for me to break even. I already have close to $1500 in R&D design on this project but that is typical of all my projects.

So what is an idea on cost? Those BLUE LEDs really have me wanting one...

john 05141

04-02-2013, 04:50 AM

Yesssss!!!
Very nice indeed! I can hardly wait to build it in there.

Jan

philiep

04-02-2013, 12:28 PM

Yesssss!!!
Very nice indeed! I can hardly wait to build it in there.

Jan

john / for me also one. thx

john 05141

04-03-2013, 04:11 AM

Hey Philiep, alles goed?

You want one in blue as well?
Dave can send both sets to me and I will send Philiep his set.
Philipe and I both attend the Deloreran event in Sweden from May 9.
Any chance you'll have it by then?

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

04-03-2013, 05:20 AM

Bitsyncmaster

04-03-2013, 06:45 PM

Put the center console back in the car. Now I remember I removed black foam tape on the bottom of the AC panel face plate. Yes you need that foam to block all the light. I also now have two large chips of the black paint off the decal (top two corners). So if you’re using that new decal be very carful you pull the sides of the center console when installing or removing the faceplate. Maybe if you trim the decal edges or use some tape on the sides it would help prevent that damage. The old decal put the black paint on the adhesive side so that was not a problem before.

john 05141

04-04-2013, 09:13 AM

2 weeks is excellent.
looking forward to it.

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

04-06-2013, 02:34 PM

I take it back......The black paint on the new decal is on the adhesive side. I went to pull the decal to replace it an look.

So be very careful when you put the faceplate back in if your center console is installed. Make sure the side of the faceplate don't rub on the center console and lift the decal. You also want to be sure you clean the face plate very good if your going to install a new faceplate.

Bitsyncmaster

04-06-2013, 03:04 PM

The decal stuck pretty good to the panel, just not so good to the decal front. Note the black paint on the edges of the panel. I guess that was to to eliminate the light I was seeing on the bottom. Also note there is black foam on the top and sides but there was none on the bottom. I guess the bottom was to narrow to add foam. My decal was a little offset from the bottom so that made the light problem worse.

I think I'm going to wet sand the front of the panel and then touch up that black paint. I may also put black foam on the bottom. I am also going to paint the indicator "tubes" silver to increase the intensity for those.

Bitsyncmaster

04-07-2013, 11:50 AM

Here is a shot of the blue LEDs with the old (type 4 i think) decal. Note how there is not pin points of light around the temp ring with this decal. This decal put a white paint over the filters on that ring of red and blue (that is stock). I guess it was to bright.

Also is a shot of my daily driver temp knob (2005 Malibu). That is how I would make a new decal. I would also have no daylight printing on any of the indicators.

kajcienski

04-07-2013, 12:06 PM

Here is a shot of the blue LEDs with the old (type 4 i think) decal. Note how there is not pin points of light around the temp ring with this decal. This decal put a white paint over the filters on that ring of red and blue (that is stock).

Hey Dave. Kelly Digital distributes (Xerox actually makes it) special "backlight" polyester paper. It comes heavily frosted and can probably solve the issue of light pins for you. I used it as a layer in my own custom decal. You could sandwich it between the decal and the light panel. The trickiest part is cutting the holes, but found a super cutting compass at the local art supply store that is spot on. Just an idea. I am happy to send you a couple of sheets if you want to check it out.

Bitsyncmaster

04-07-2013, 01:32 PM

Hey Dave. Kelly Digital distributes (Xerox actually makes it) special "backlight" polyester paper. It comes heavily frosted and can probably solve the issue of light pins for you. I used it as a layer in my own custom decal. You could sandwich it between the decal and the light panel. The trickiest part is cutting the holes, but found a super cutting compass at the local art supply store that is spot on. Just an idea. I am happy to send you a couple of sheets if you want to check it out.

I've got some diffusing film but I don't think it will work with the OEM panel with the light pipes. I was thinking of using it with my flat lexan panel by mounting it about a 1/8" spaced off the back of that panel. But maybe if you glue that film on the back of the light pipes it may work. Or maybe not sand the white paint of the light pipes on that ring of red and blue.

kajcienski

04-07-2013, 02:18 PM

I've got some diffusing film but I don't think it will work with the OEM panel with the light pipes. I was thinking of using it with my flat lexan panel by mounting it about a 1/8" spaced off the back of that panel. But maybe if you glue that film on the back of the light pipes it may work. Or maybe not sand the white paint of the light pipes on that ring of red and blue.

Hey Dave - The material I was mentioning is rather thick so it diffuses much better than a film variety. It took out any spots I had and used it as the base layer of my decal. I would at least check it out. Google "Xerox polyester backlit".

1batt4u

04-07-2013, 03:21 PM

Here is a shot of the blue LEDs with the old (type 4 i think) decal. Note how there is not pin points of light around the temp ring with this decal. This decal put a white paint over the filters on that ring of red and blue (that is stock). I guess it was to bright.

Also is a shot of my daily driver temp knob (2005 Malibu). That is how I would make a new decal. I would also have no daylight printing on any of the indicators.

That's the same decal I have.

Bitsyncmaster

04-07-2013, 04:05 PM

If your going to install a new decal:

1) Cut the indicator tubes down to the level (or less) than the switch tubes. That is if your going to install my new LED board. I cut them with a hacksaw blade and then cleaned the cut up with a sanding drum on my Dremel.

2) Paint the indicator tubes inside with silver paint. Not sure if this helps but you want the brightest light there.

3) Wet sand the front surface with a small block with 400 grit wet dry sandpaper under running water. This only takes about 5 minuets.

4) Make a guide dowel to install the decal. Wrap tape on the dowel to have a snug fit in the face plate headlight switch hole and that hole in the decal. note the face plate hole is larger so use more tape there. Then you can do the hazard hole the same or carefully guide the decal keeping the hazard switch hole centered (that's what I did).

5) I then touched up the black paint with flat black (bottom edge most important) paint and an artist brush.

Do not try to trim any edges of the decal. I tried this and it will break the black paint bond to the decal. When the paint dries, I will let you know if it needs foam on the bottom edge.

Bitsyncmaster

04-08-2013, 07:09 PM

I needed to add some foam to block out all the light on the bottom. Bottom of the sides should have a little foam also. The top needs to have solid paint on the top edge. My LEDs are a little brighter and spread the light more than the stock bulbs.

Attached is a photo of the foam I used. I cut a 1/2" wide strip. That wide strip mostly blocks the light from shining on the shifter plate.

Bitsyncmaster

04-09-2013, 05:12 AM

I''m going to put that foam all around the panel edges to block all the light. I could just use black tape 1/2" wide but not sure what would be better.

Here is the wire color code list.

My wire - Function - harness wire

RED - BACKLIGHTS - RB
BROWN - FAN FAIL - BP
BLACK - GROUND - B
YELLOW - LOCK DOORS (-) - NK
WHITE - DEFOG - WB
ORANGE - LOCK DOORS (+) - LGW

Bitsyncmaster

04-09-2013, 07:06 PM

Chris 16409

04-14-2013, 01:46 PM

Looks great. I do like the green LEDs over the blue.

DMC5180

04-14-2013, 08:19 PM

I put that foam on all four sides. Front edge of foam is flush with decal. I really like the way it looks. Kind of a frame around the face plate. Also go a pretty good photo almost showing the actual colors I see.

Dave,

I see the symbol for Bi-level mode would normally be RED over BLUE. How did you get the RED bar to show so prominently without washing out the BLUE bar which now lights up GREEN. If you can control the RED color that well, would it have been possible to get the BLUE bar to illuminate BLUE instead of the Green that appears to have bled over from the other symbols?

Bitsyncmaster

04-15-2013, 05:33 AM

Dave,

I see the symbol for Bi-level mode would normally be RED over BLUE. How did you get the RED bar to show so prominently without washing out the BLUE bar which now lights up GREEN. If you can control the RED color that well, would it have been possible to get the BLUE bar to illuminate BLUE instead of the Green that appears to have bled over from the other symbols?

The old decal swapped the red over blue to blue over red. I'm just using a red LED under both. Remember I'm using the original face plate with the light pipes so all the LED colors get mixed somewhat. If I decide to use a new flat face plate almost anything is possible with lighting. You may have to use paint or paper tubes glued to the LED board to stop mixing light colors.

I was also thinking of trying some red and blue "magic markers" to color the light pipes around the temp ring of red and blue. Those lights are to bright anyway.

A lot of things are possible. Keep the suggestions and comments coming so if I decide to go into production I can incorporate changes.

Bitsyncmaster

04-16-2013, 06:06 PM

I tried painting the light pipes under the temp ring with Sharpe markers and it did not help much. You need a less transparent paint or a colored film. Of course this is only if your using the new decal.

Bitsyncmaster

04-25-2013, 07:52 PM

I tried some of that diffusing film. I still see the dots. It may have helped but nothing to get excited about.

Also thought of another improvement. Paint the board black around the light switch and flasher switch. But I forgot to do that and put things back together already.:sad30: That would eliminate seeing the green PCB board if light shines in there.

Bitsyncmaster

04-27-2013, 05:37 AM

My daily driver did not start this morning so I took the D to work (4:00 am). The ring of LEDs on the heat control knob is still to bright (with the new decal). Even the rest of the green LEDs are a little brighter than my window switches. Probably the units with the blue LEDs and the original decal will be just about the right lighting as is. As soon as those two owners get them installed we can get their comments.

I can just increase the current resistors to drop the LED current more or maybe put a PWM circuit to adjust the light output.

I actually saw my cooling fans kick on once on the way to work. My "fan" symbol has a blue LED so the regular green color turns to a blueish color when the fans go on. If the lights are not on it would show up more so.

Now my daily driver had no sign of battery problems yesterday but today the battery is very low, slow cranking and lights very dim.:sad30:

kobachi

04-27-2013, 12:00 PM

Bitsyncmaster

04-27-2013, 12:53 PM

MD/CD Changer?! Does your car play MiniDiscs?

My radio is pretty old. It has a remote 10 disk CD player.

Bitsyncmaster

04-28-2013, 05:37 AM

I ordered a sample kit of colored plexiglass to play with on the LEDs. Hard to find thickness less than 1/8" so not sure I can even use it with the stock faceplate unless I machine off the light pipes.

D Knight

04-28-2013, 12:59 PM

I so need one of these. Are you going to make the whole panel as a drop in replacement? Now all we need are backlit clusters!

Bitsyncmaster

04-28-2013, 01:42 PM

I so need one of these. Are you going to make the whole panel as a drop in replacement? Now all we need are backlit clusters!

Still testing the result. I have shipped two units over the pond to see how they work with different decals. It really makes the binnacle cluster looks like XXXX when you see these vivid colors on the AC panel.

john 05141

04-29-2013, 05:37 AM

Hi Dave,

Did you see my PM from 04/19?

Thanks you,
Best regards,
Jan

Bitsyncmaster

04-29-2013, 06:37 AM

Hi Dave,

Did you see my PM from 04/19?

Thanks you,
Best regards,
Jan

Yes and replied. I sent the reply again. If you don't get it, your PMs are to full.

Bitsyncmaster

05-01-2013, 04:57 PM

Got my kit of Plexiglas colored samples. It looks like the darker (less transparent) colors would work but they have to be moved further from the LEDs than the space available with the stock light pipe. This explains why the old stock decal works very nicely. I guess it would work to put colored Mylar film directly under the new decal (before you glue it on the faceplate).

I cut back the current in the LEDs to 660 ua. Have to do a night time drive to see if that dimmed the green LEDs enough.

Bitsyncmaster

05-02-2013, 06:58 PM

I think I have the brightness set good for my panel with the new decal. Today I ordered a new PIC micro to play with making a PWM dimmer. Turns out the PIC I chose is a new one and can only program it with the PIC KIT 3 unit. Now I have to buy a new programmer.

john 05141

05-14-2013, 09:03 AM

I got mine, but I have to urgently solve an idle problem. When that oen is done, I will install the face plate. Pics to come.

jan

john 05141

05-24-2013, 05:14 AM

Hi Dave,

Finally have the time this weekend to install mine.
Yesterday I have been looking into the package that you sent to me, and inside i see;
The PCboard with all the LED's. It has a connector on it. A bundle of wires with a matching connector, schrink tubing and alu tubes.

I have also been reading the complete thread again to make sure how to install but I have a bunch of questions left on how to do this;

1 remove the console
2remove the face plate
wires.
I found this earlier in this thread;

My wire - Function - harness wire

RED - BACKLIGHTS - RB (=Red - Brown?)
BROWN - FAN FAIL - BP (=Brown - Purple?)
BLACK - GROUND - B (=Brown?)
YELLOW - LOCK DOORS (-) - NK (= no color?)
WHITE - DEFOG - WB (= White - Brown?)
ORANGE - LOCK DOORS (+) - LGW (what does LGW mean?)
(Sorry, I'mnot all that famililar with those abbreviations)

3 So I will cut and solder with schrink tube accordingly.
When all works I will proceed;

4 Should I remove the white paint of the tubes?
5 How is the plate installed; or is it held in place?
6 about the tape over the edges. How exactely should this be done? Only over the board you sent or after it is installed? Wrap around the board edge only or onlt a few mm and let the rest sticking out?
7 You mentioned they're too bright earlier in this thread, does ths mean I should not paint the tubes anymore after?
8 Cut the tubes before final instalation
9 Put everything back together.

I know Philiep will install soon, I think he waits until I'm finished. So I hope you can answer the questions or explain a complete installation.
Thanks,

Pics will follow soon!
jan

Bitsyncmaster

05-24-2013, 06:59 AM

I drilled a hole in the board to use a sheet metal screw to hold it in place but you can do it without that screw. It just makes things easy to install the face plate with the board held in position. You would have to drill a pilot hole using the LED board to mark the location.

I think with an original decal your brightness should be good as is. If not, we can change the resistors or add a PWM circuit.

You will have to sand the white paint off the face plate "light tubes". But you can leave that for the last step and try it with the paint first. It's no problem to rework the face plate with the console back assembled. It's actually no problem to remove the LED board also with the console assembled.

The wires can be modified as you cut them from the old bulb sockets. The four AC panel lights each should have a black and (red/brown) wire. One of those black wires goes to my black wire. One of the (red/brown) wires goes to my red wire. etc. I think one of my indicator wire colors was not the same as listed on the OEM schematic but doing one wire at a time from the old sockets shows you how to wire it.

The table shows my wire color first, the function and then the OEM harness wire color. Same color coding as shown on OEM schematic.
RB = red/brown, BP = brown/purple, B = black, NK = brown/pink, WB = white/black, LGW = light green/white stripe.

You can use insulated butt connectors if you want but I included the non insulated ones I use and shrink tubing over them after you crimp and or solder them.

You will have to cut the indicator tubes before you can install the face plate onto the new LED board. Do that first and lay the board over the face plate so you can see if you cut them short enough to clear the board.

john 05141

05-24-2013, 08:47 AM

Ok, What about the self adheasive foam?

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

05-24-2013, 02:04 PM

Ok, What about the self adheasive foam?

Jan

That foam you can install after your are done. You will find (like I did) some light leaking around the face plate. I just put the foam (full 1/2 inch width) around the four edges of the face plate. Install it flush with the front decal. I think it looks better than anyway even if the light was not leaking.

john 05141

05-27-2013, 04:27 AM

I have installed this new LED based AC faceplate over the weekend, and BOY WHAT AN IMPROVEMENT!!!!!

I was a bit worried to get started with this at first becasue I'm not an expert on electronics but it is in fact quite easy.. This is how I did this;

I removed the console, but I think you can do it without removing that as well. I had an other issue to solve under there anyway, so no problem.
Removed the AC faceplate
With a dremel I cut of the 3 pipes to hold the warning lights lights from the "doors open, fan fail and fog light"
Removed the white paint on the transparent plext tubes. I tought a previous owner had done this but it seems to be factory. Dave mentioned sandpaper, but I scaped it of with a cutter and used sandpaper to make it smooth. This is necessary becasue the leds have to project the light thru this surface where in the old way the light was supposed to travel tru the plexi. I did not add any other silver paint.
I removed one of the 4 lights (the one most right) and cut of the wires and connected them to the cables as Dave had indicated. I removed all 4 bulbs but the sockets are still in there.
Then I did the same with the 3 warning lights.
I cut of the cables and soldered all cables to the wires from Dave and used schrink tubes.

Performed a test and WOW... bright light!!!!
The face plate fits perfectly at the rear of the AC face plate. I used the black foam to block off the light, (you can see that on the pictures)
remove hazard and light switch knobs (just pull the gently towards you) put connector in, and use the screw to put it back
re-installed the console.
No need to replace any decal, no damages made anywhere.
The faceplates comes forward by a few mm, but I think that even looks better and does not have any negative affect of the functioning of the switches or knobs.

But the result is perfect, this is how modern cars have lights in the console. The light does not spread frm the sides due to the foam, it is not too bright or too soft; By coincidence, the color is a perfect match with the radio.
All combined, blue lights all over the interior; ac place, radio, clock, window switches,... and the blue door led's in my case. Very happy.

Highly recomendable,
Dave you did a great job Dave, thanks!

Jan

Bitsyncmaster

05-27-2013, 05:03 AM

Thanks. You can also sand the white paint off your control knob pointers. It looks like your mode knob has done this. So you don't think it's to bright with your original decal?

john 05141

05-27-2013, 10:11 AM

Absolutely not, it is just perfect. Not too bright, not too soft.
And the color blue is very nice. I prefer blue over green, but that is a personal choice I guess.

Forgot to mention, if you can do this without removing the console, I think you can install this in 30 min easy.

jan

DMC5180

05-27-2013, 10:41 AM

Thanks. You can also sand the white paint off your control knob pointers. It looks like your mode knob has done this. So you don't think it's to bright with your original decal?

I discovered those knob indicators just pop out if you push back on the front side. I happened to have some lacquer thinner on the self and tried that. The white paint softens and wipes off fairly easily. No sanding.

1batt4u

05-27-2013, 02:00 PM

Looks really nice!!!

Question, on the "Mode" section on the decal, left of the "0", there's a red dot, looks like a LED or something? What is that for?

Domi

05-27-2013, 02:07 PM

That's an awesome improvement, looks really nice in the dark :thumbup2:

Bitsyncmaster

05-27-2013, 03:37 PM

Looks really nice!!!

Question, on the "Mode" section on the decal, left of the "0", there's a red dot, looks like a LED or something? What is that for?

Good question. Never thought about it. Some decals have red and blue dots reversed.

john 05141

05-28-2013, 04:17 AM

Looks really nice!!!

Question, on the "Mode" section on the decal, left of the "0", there's a red dot, looks like a LED or something? What is that for?

That is a indicator light that flashes when the alarm is activated. This was installed by the previous owner.

Jan

jawn101

05-28-2013, 04:15 PM

Wow, big fan of this Dave!! When will they be available to the rest of us? :)

dvonk

05-28-2013, 04:22 PM

Wow, big fan of this Dave!! When will they be available to the rest of us? :)

+1... id like to buy one for future use.

Bitsyncmaster

05-28-2013, 05:22 PM

Wow, big fan of this Dave!! When will they be available to the rest of us? :)

I'm debating on doing a new PCB. Not that the old ones have a problem but to cover all the decal differences in the amount of light each pass, I want to make the intensity user adjustable.

john 05141

05-29-2013, 03:01 AM

I'm happy as a clown with it, I would not want it any different.

I can't see what Dave comes with next.
Jan

jawn101

05-29-2013, 10:07 AM

I'm debating on doing a new PCB. Not that the old ones have a problem but to cover all the decal differences in the amount of light each pass, I want to make the intensity user adjustable.

Cool idea! What about color, any chance of one that's white backlit (except under the hot/cold dial) for a more original look?

Bitsyncmaster

05-29-2013, 10:19 AM

Cool idea! What about color, any chance of one that's white backlit (except under the hot/cold dial) for a more original look?

I played with white LEDs and they just wash out the colors.

dmc6960

05-29-2013, 12:11 PM

Cool idea! What about color, any chance of one that's white backlit (except under the hot/cold dial) for a more original look?

If your looking for "original" look, that is achieved with the standard green LEDs Dave originally played around with. Contrary to incandescents, you dont use white LEDs in this application because they do not actually produce any light in the green spectrum. Once they are put behind a green filter, nearly all light gets blocked. Using green LEDs you will get green illumination through the green filter when on. The blue LEDs just happen to work because its relatively close in color to the green color filter on the decal. If you wanted an original decal backlit in all red you'll probably be out of luck unless they ever get reprinted. :biggrin:

jawn101

05-29-2013, 05:02 PM

If your looking for "original" look, that is achieved with the standard green LEDs Dave originally played around with. Contrary to incandescents, you dont use white LEDs in this application because they do not actually produce any light in the green spectrum. Once they are put behind a green filter, nearly all light gets blocked. Using green LEDs you will get green illumination through the green filter when on. The blue LEDs just happen to work because its relatively close in color to the green color filter on the decal. If you wanted an original decal backlit in all red you'll probably be out of luck unless they ever get reprinted. :biggrin:

Oh, interesting. I went 99.999% LED on my car a while back and used white LEDs in the A/C decal, with the exception of the lock/fan telltales (red) and the defroster (yellow). The white LEDs behind the decal look fine to me, but maybe green ones would look even better. Maybe the next time I need some junk from Superbright I'll try a few green ones out for fun.

Bitsyncmaster

05-30-2013, 07:01 PM

I've lost count how many times in the past few months I have pulled the AC face plate off.:sad30:

Anyway the proper way to pull it is to remove the shifter knob, remove the two screws holding the shifter plate to the center console (press down with your fingers so the screws don't chew up the plate), remove the knobs, remove the one screw holding the face plate, pull each side of the console so the face plate does not hit anything as you remove it.

I pulled my face plate and LED board so I could measure the rectangle hole at the bottom to decide where I will place my added components for the PWM dimming circuit.

Denver DMC

05-30-2013, 11:47 PM

Wow, big fan of this Dave!! When will they be available to the rest of us? :)

Dave, just want you to know you to know that the stalwart members of Rocky Mountain DeLoreans are looking forward to your sucessful product launch with anticipation.

Peter Moore

DMC5180

05-31-2013, 02:16 AM

Just noticed that the BI-LEVEL symbol on Jans' A/C Panel decal has the Red bar on bottom. My decal and Dave's has the Red bar on top. Ours also has the White boarder on the TEMP arcs. Jans' does not.

dvonk

05-31-2013, 02:55 AM

Conundrum

05-31-2013, 04:35 AM

Dang! I have been out of the loop way too long! This is just amazing, Dave!

DMC5180

05-31-2013, 08:35 AM

Ryan King posted some photos of the various decals (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6057-Building-New-AC-Panel-Faceplate&p=93750&viewfull=1#post93750) earlier in the thread... but i dont blame you if you havent read the entire thread start to finish. ;)

Yeah, I'd seen that before but did not notice the RED bar detail being flipped. Interesting that it's just 1 of the 4 shown decals that has the RED bar on top.

dvonk

05-31-2013, 01:56 PM

kinda makes you wonder why they changed it so many times during production... :hmm:

john 05141

06-03-2013, 04:24 AM

kinda makes you wonder why they changed it so many times during production... :hmm:

+1!!

Bitsyncmaster

06-05-2013, 05:54 PM

I have placed the new components onto the circuit board. Still need to check that everything has clearance and deciding if I should put more LEDs in the RED/BLUE rings around the temp knob. I found with the old decals the current LEDs were fine and the new decal would show dots but no matter how many LEDs I use there, I don't think the dots will go away with that new decal.

1) One adjustable PWM for the mode and fan speed letters.
2) A second adjustable PWM for the temp control LEDs.
3) Adjustment "trim-pots" accessible by removing the mode control knob.
4) If someone ever makes a blackout decal, I have built that into the new board. You would need another "power" wire going to where the existing headlight power wire is and move that headlight power wire to the spare pin I had on the connector.
5) I made the fan fail indicator to use 4 LEDs instead of the 2 on the original board. Again that's only for that new decal with it's very small letters.

Bitsyncmaster

10-01-2013, 04:52 PM

Getting caught up on my inventory so I ordered the new PCB today. Cost a lot more than expected. My order of 100 boards was almost $1200. I just hope I did not screw up anything with these new boards. Would hate to call that scrap. I gave the order 4 weeks to keep the price down.

Michael

10-01-2013, 06:29 PM

I don't know how I missed this thread, but I'm interested.....very interested.

I looked through, and by looked I mean skimmed over the thread and I never could find a price(if there was one mentioned). I can only assume that you are going into limited production by ordering 100 boards, so again...very interested. PM me if you have prices and payment info ready.

Bitsyncmaster

10-01-2013, 06:57 PM

Have not calculated the price yet. Parts will run about $60 to $80 so it depends on how many hours it takes to build it. But you get the idea that this will not be an inexpensive upgrade.

Michael

10-01-2013, 07:17 PM

Have not calculated the price yet. Parts will run about $60 to $80 so it depends on how many hours it takes to build it. But you get the idea that this will not be an inexpensive upgrade.

Ok, I'm in!!

My panel has the lighting tracts fractured due to someone overtightening the panel retaining screw, (as I'm sure a lot of other's are too). Although mine isn't too bad, I have been keeping my eyes open for a replacement panel that's not broken in the back. That search is now over :thumbup:

And better illumination to boot!

Bitsyncmaster

10-01-2013, 07:23 PM

Ok, I'm in!!

My panel has the lighting tracts fractured due to someone overtightening the panel retaining screw, (as I'm sure a lot of other's are too). Although mine isn't too bad, I have been keeping my eyes open for a replacement panel that's not broken in the back. That search is now over :thumbup:

And better illumination to boot!

I did start building a new plastic panel but found the OEM panel worked the same as my new flat panel if you sand off the white paint. So I'm not building the plastic panel, just the LED circuit board that mounts under it. Maybe someday a new panel could be put into production but it's not in the works now.

Tomcio

10-01-2013, 08:01 PM

I ordered the new PCB today. Cost a lot more than expected. My order of 100 boards was almost $1200.

Something like this is never cheap. Even my little door light PCBs were more that I had expected. A PCB like yours is much larger with large cutouts and long trances with many solder pads. Actually, $1200 for 100 boards isn't really that expensive!

I'm not building the plastic panel, just the LED circuit board that mounts under it. Maybe someday a new panel could be put into production but it's not in the works now.

Dave, maybe I can help with building the new panel? I have access to a really great laser that can cut and engrave whatever we might need. Maybe we could get together on this project where you make the PCB and I make the front panel?
We could make the panel in two ways:
1. Base the design on the original and have the surface painted black with all the markings being clear
2. Make a new design with the markings cut out from a black plastic stuck on top of a clear layer

Would there be enough interest?

BTW, your board looks awesome! Nice work!

Michael

10-01-2013, 09:28 PM

I did start building a new plastic panel but found the OEM panel worked the same as my new flat panel if you sand off the white paint. So I'm not building the plastic panel, just the LED circuit board that mounts under it. Maybe someday a new panel could be put into production but it's not in the works now.

Oh I see. I guess since the light is not traveling from one countersunk spot through the panel, it doesn't matter if you use the original or not even if it is cracked. Once the plastic "light tunnel" is cracked, the light from a single source stops at the crack. (the white paint was there to keep the light bouncing around in the channel and confine it to the front panel). Using resin, I fixed mine to some success, but not 100%. Yours has multiple lights in which makes the panel much more backlit, so the light channels are no longer necessary.

I may build a new panel and buy a new decal so I can keep my original panel intact...it is after all pretty nice and I wouldn't want to ruin it. It also keeps my "revert back to originality" concept intact when it comes to modifications.

Bitsyncmaster

10-02-2013, 06:07 AM

I may build a new panel and buy a new decal so I can keep my original panel intact...it is after all pretty nice and I wouldn't want to ruin it. It also keeps my "revert back to originality" concept intact when it comes to modifications.

I made a new panel with clear Plexiglas. Put a new decal onit and cut it to shape. That part was easy to do with my spindle sander to get the large holes to size. All it needs is the 5 standoffs. You have the four corners that have location pins and the one center one that has the screw hole to hold it to the bracket.

With the new LED circuit board, the "light pipes" are not needed. So you should be able to glue any breaks and install a new decal.

D Knight

10-05-2013, 02:00 PM

Bitsyncmaster

10-05-2013, 02:42 PM

Dave what about leaving the 3 indicators at the bottom as open hold to allow the use of the LEDs some of us have placed there to shine through? This way you can go back to stock much easier should you need to. And it might cut down on cost a little.

Then I could not have put SMD LEDs for the indicators on my board. It's too late anyway, my boards have been ordered.

DeLorean03

10-10-2013, 12:49 PM

I just stumbled upon this thread, and boy am I glad I found it now. I'd be dying waiting all year for this.

Dave, I'll definitely buy one of these from you. Put me on your "eagerly awaiting and ready to pay" list.

22448

Bitsyncmaster

10-24-2013, 12:58 PM

Got the new boards today. It will take some time on the first one built. I'm going to set the LED strings at 10 ma. with 100% PWM. That way if you want to keep the LEDs on during the day they will be bright. That was the intent with the original blackout panel. Then when you turn the car lights on you have an adjustment (via pot) to run from 50% to 0.1% PWM. I have not stocked my inventory of parts for these yet. Buying larger quantities brings the price down but ties up a lot of cash.

Tomcio

10-24-2013, 02:48 PM

I'm going to set the LED strings at 10 ma. with 100% PWM.
Then when you turn the car lights on you have an adjustment (via pot) to run from 50% to 0.1% PWM.

I have a suggestion... Add an option where the brightness stays at 100% with lights on. The reason for that is that some people drive with their lights on during the day and full bright will be much better here.
About two years ago our government figured that driving with lights on 24 hours a day is a good idea and so I have to have them on. My Nissan Z dims the dash lights when I switch the lights on and I actually have to turn the lights off to see if my A/C is on. Same applies to other dash indicators except for warning lights like the battery or oil. That is really annoying. Don't make the same mistake as Nissan did in my Z.

Bitsyncmaster

10-24-2013, 03:09 PM

You could just wire the lights on signal to another source (switch). When you want to use full intensity, you need a 12 volt power (on with key) and another line is the "light" signal. If you just want the dimmed LEDs only with lights on you just feed that lights wire into the "power" pin.

Bitsyncmaster

10-25-2013, 10:00 AM

So far everything fits and PWM is working. I have to select the current set resistors. Also want to find better red LEDs (had this problem with the original).

Pots can be adjusted just removing the mode select knob.

jgarland79

10-25-2013, 10:56 AM

Do you have a vector image of the overlay? I'm making plans to install a Nexus 7 tablet to replace that panel with software that is skinned like the original panel.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Bitsyncmaster

10-25-2013, 11:21 AM

Bitsyncmaster

10-26-2013, 09:04 AM

I have the first board built. I need to get my car running so I can test what to set the current for each LED string. The green and blue LEDs are blinding bright with 5 ma. The red leds still don't come close to the green or blue at 10 ma.

I placed an order for another red LED to test. Data sheet shows it has more light intensity.

My test will be a daylight test in the car with 100% PWM set.

DMC5180

10-26-2013, 01:11 PM

I love the Clever hiding of the dimmer pots. (PWM's) the only thing I might do differently is use micro buttons (like the clock adjustment buttons) that way you can use an ordinary (pen , pencil, or similar object to adjust them) My store bought inline PWM I use for my Illuminated shift plate uses push buttons st scale up or down the intensity range just by pressing and holding. No micro blade screwdrivers needed.

How do you plan to make the transition switching between 100% for Daylight and 0- 50 % PWM'd Night time Dimmed circuit? The original circuit used the A/C illumination relay to switch between the (resistor) and (full power) circuit. There is only 1 feed wire (Red/brown) running forward from the relay compartment. It seems like this will require adding an extra wire to provide split feeds for the circuit.

Bitsyncmaster

10-26-2013, 02:24 PM

For lights only operation you just wire one of wires from the old lights to power the new board.

For daylight running, you need to run a power wire to the pin that used the lights only operation. Then you move that wire from one of the old lights to the blank pin on my connector. The unit goes 100% when that blank pin is grounded (by the bulb or LEDs on the same circuit). So when the lights are on that pin is pulled up to 12 volts and the unit goes to the PWM set by the pots. There is a pull up resistor on that new pin so you just leave it blank for lights only operation.

Bitsyncmaster

10-31-2013, 10:44 AM

Here are some photos with 100% PWM in the daylight (overcast day). It really looks brighter in person. You can see my blue headlight switch LED is washed out so it's quite bright.

I ended up keeping the original red LEDs. The new ones looked the same brightness but are not frosted so the dot was more pronounced.

Mark D

10-31-2013, 11:13 AM

The LED lit panel looks great, definitely bright enough if you ask me.

Side note: it looks like your hazard light button is installed upside down?

Bitsyncmaster

11-13-2013, 05:29 PM

I discovered my shift plate mounting bracket was installed backwards (cutout faceing rear) This made my plate push to far forward. Now the shift plate sits in squrare holes with pins and that keeps the plate from hitting my LED board. But if you lift up on the back side of the plate you can push it past those "pin holes" then press it down and it will lift (damage) an IC mounted on my LED board.

So anyone that gets one of my new LED boards will be required to make two 1/2" wide notches on the end of the shift plate to prevent that posible damage.

Photo of the bracket is showing the correct way bracket should be installed.

NightFlyer

11-13-2013, 06:51 PM

Bitsyncmaster

11-13-2013, 07:02 PM

Have you started production yet?

I placed a large order for LEDs and some other parts today. I have one green board available but I need to add the extra wire (waiting on some green wire) on the connector if the user want's to run "day light 100%". Also need to order shipping boxes.

I have a pending unit order for two blue units. I have to work out the price.

DMC5180

11-15-2013, 11:20 AM

Bitsyncmaster

11-15-2013, 12:07 PM

Dave,

Will you be offering more than just BLUE or GREEN?

Please post reference photo's of the various color options you make Installed (day/night) on your website. I think that would help folks make the color choice decision a bit easier.

Your daylight shot at 100% modulation looks great. I assume that is Full bright. A video clip of the dimming levels would be great too. Can you show the 3 warning lights illuminated just for kicks?

A lot depends on which decal you have. The one available from DMCH has almost clear color rings around the temp knob. That is why I made that ring of LEDs have their own adjustment. The indicator lights on the new decal have very small letters, hence they don't show up as good as the old decal I had.

Right now the green units have a blue LED under the fan symbol (right side of decal). That illuminates when the fans are running if you have my fan fail unit. The blue units have a green LED for that fan indicator. When the panel is illuminated you still get that fan symbol showing from the light pipes on the panel.

Both have a red LED under that blue/red line on the mode switch. I don't think you can change much with color choice unless you make a new decal with different colors.

DMC5180

11-15-2013, 01:43 PM

A lot depends on which decal you have. The one available from DMCH has almost clear color rings around the temp knob. That is why I made that ring of LEDs have their own adjustment. The indicator lights on the new decal have very small letters, hence they don't show up as good as the old decal I had.

Right now the green units have a blue LED under the fan symbol (right side of decal). That illuminates when the fans are running if you have my fan fail unit. The blue units have a green LED for that fan indicator. When the panel is illuminated you still get that fan symbol showing from the light pipes on the panel.

Both have a red LED under that blue/red line on the mode switch. I don't think you can change much with color choice unless you make a new decal with different colors.

I also have the DMCH NOS decal. Funny I don't recall the Fan Fail light being ON when the fans are running with your module. It just does not stand out in recent memory. I'm sure it does though.

Bitsyncmaster

11-15-2013, 03:28 PM

I also have the DMCH NOS decal. Funny I don't recall the Fan Fail light being ON when the fans are running with your module. It just does not stand out in recent memory. I'm sure it does though.

Not the fan fail light. The little fan symbol on the far right side of the decal, that now lets me see when the fans are running. If you don't like that function, a little black RTV over that LED will let you disable it and go back if you decide.

andy blackmon

11-15-2013, 07:22 PM

Dave you said you have two orders for the blue, I am sure you and I have talked about this before, but just in case you do not have me down for an blue one. I need to be #3 you build it I will buy it. Andy B 03513

NightFlyer

11-15-2013, 07:59 PM

How does the faceplate obtain power from the car? Do you have any pictures of the electrical connectors? Is it all plug and play, or are some wiring modifications/taps necessary to install?

DeLorean03

11-16-2013, 02:21 AM

When it is time, I want one in blue please.

Bitsyncmaster

11-16-2013, 05:31 AM

All the LED layout is the same as on the REV A board (except the fan fail now has 4 LEDs) so previous photos and wiring is the same. With the REV B board you have the option to run daylight LEDs. To do that you would need another wire (most likely your radio power). All other wiring is existing wires from the old bulb sockets.

Defiantly not plug and play. You need to cut the three tubes on the face plate indicators down to clear where my LED board is located. You need to sand the white paint off the face plate "light pipes". You cut off the old light sockets and connect those wires to my supplied harness that has a connector to my LED board. To do the wiring you should have the center console removed to access the old wires.

DMC5180

11-16-2013, 10:49 PM

Bitsyncmaster

11-17-2013, 08:42 AM

Worked out the price. $100 which includes shipping first class mail to the lower 48 states. The kit contains the completed board with your choice of blue or green backlight LEDs. The temp backlight LEDs are fixed red and blue. The indicators are red LEDs (rear defog are orange). I'm open to custom color changes. Kit also contains an 18 inch cable (7 wires), 7 uninsulated butt connectors, 7 pieces of shrink for those connectors, 3 pieces of black foam to block light on your faceplace sides.

All I need now are the shipping boxes and some time to build more boards. Also need to write up install instructions.

DeLorean03

11-17-2013, 11:59 AM

Can't wait - VERY fair price given all the R&D you've done.

DMC5180

11-17-2013, 12:26 PM

FWIW: A little Lacquer thinner will take the white paint right off too. I popped one of the clear plastic inserts out of a knob and wiped the white paint right off. It did not hurt the plastic at all. WARNING: DO NOT try this with Acetone it WILL damage the plastic.

Correction: Now that I think back I may have used rubbing Alcohol rather than Lacquer thinner. I tried it shortly after Dave M mentioned sanding the Paint off several months back.

NightFlyer

11-17-2013, 01:09 PM

AWESOME :thumbup:

I'm in for a green!

What's the final power draw of the illumination lights vs stock/OEM incandescents? I'm guessing that heat output is significantly reduced?

Bitsyncmaster

11-17-2013, 01:37 PM

Dave, maybe I can help with building the new panel? I have access to a really great laser that can cut and engrave whatever we might need. Maybe we could get together on this project where you make the PCB and I make the front panel?
We could make the panel in two ways:
1. Base the design on the original and have the surface painted black with all the markings being clear
2. Make a new design with the markings cut out from a black plastic stuck on top of a clear layer

Would there be enough interest?

BTW, your board looks awesome! Nice work!

I missed this post and just saw it when I was cutting and pasting info posted to make a users manual. I think a new front panel would be great. With access to your laser cutter you may be able to produce them and even make money.

Bitsyncmaster

11-17-2013, 01:54 PM

AWESOME :thumbup:

I'm in for a green!

What's the final power draw of the illumination lights vs stock/OEM incandescents? I'm guessing that heat output is significantly reduced?

My test cable powers all the LEDs (indicators and backlight) with 13.5 volts:

Daylight mode: 100% duty = 119 ma.
50% = 74 ma.
Where I run mine at 20% = 37.5 ma.

Heat is not an issue. Even running day light mode that is total power of 1.6 watts.

The four OEM light pipe bulbs draw 556 ma. at 13.5 volts

Tomcio

11-17-2013, 07:17 PM

Dave, maybe I can help with building the new panel?
I missed this post and just saw it when I was cutting and pasting info posted to make a users manual. I think a new front panel would be great. With access to your laser cutter you may be able to produce them and even make money.

Dave, I have posted about making the front panel because I have started construction of a new LED panel a long time ago. I wanted to make a complete solution - LED board with the front panel in one package. I never liked the OEM decal and it's colors and I thought that a complete solution is the only logical choice. I've spent a lot of time and effort creating a front panel that is plug-n-play, has sharp colors with invisible points of light and corrects some of the mistakes that the factory made - the large rear screen heater is one example.
I have already designed a PCB with LEDs to go with the panel but have not build one yet. When I came across your thread I wanted to offer my help so we could work together. I was willing to leave the PCB design up to you and focus on the front panel. I invested way to much time and effort to just throw it all away but I can't offer the panel as a stand alone solution. It is designed to work with LEDs. So, as much as I don't want to build a competition I'm too far into this project to back out now. Since you are not interested in cooperation I will continue the work on my complete package.
My panel will look almost identical to the OEM panel. The main difference would be the color of the backlighting.
I still have other projects keeping me busy for now like the side markers and front turn signals.

Bitsyncmaster

11-17-2013, 07:29 PM

Dave, I have posted about making the front panel because I have started construction of a new LED panel a long time ago. I wanted to make a complete solution - LED board with the front panel in one package. I never liked the OEM decal and it's colors and I thought that a complete solution is the only logical choice. I've spent a lot of time and effort creating a front panel that is plug-n-play, has sharp colors with invisible points of light and corrects some of the mistakes that the factory made - the large rear screen heater is one example.
I have already designed a PCB with LEDs to go with the panel but have not build one yet. When I came across your thread I wanted to offer my help so we could work together. I was willing to leave the PCB design up to you and focus on the front panel. I invested way to much time and effort to just throw it all away but I can't offer the panel as a stand alone solution. It is designed to work with LEDs. So, as much as I don't want to build a competition I'm too far into this project to back out now. Since you are not interested in cooperation I will continue the work on my complete package.
My panel will look almost identical to the OEM panel. The main difference would be the color of the backlighting.
I still have other projects keeping me busy for now like the side markers and front turn signals.

Competition is what keeps products affordable and improving. There are a few sole source products for the D that are way overpriced and need some competition. I know what you mean about the long time investment. I just hope to recover my investment.

Bitsyncmaster

11-27-2013, 07:45 PM

The first cut of the installation document is now on my web site. I don't publish it here so I can update the document and you only view the latest.

Special thanks to Ozzie for his professional editing to make these documents the best.

Looks like Verizon is killing the personal web sites next year:angry4:

Michael

11-27-2013, 08:15 PM

Can't wait to buy this!!!

One thing I thought would be helpful: have a printable template/pattern for the notches included in the file.

djdogbone

11-27-2013, 10:35 PM

Let us know when it's ready for sale and the cost....

Bitsyncmaster

12-03-2013, 07:14 AM

I have 2 blue and 3 green AC panel LED boards ready to sell. Price is $100 each which includes shipping to lower 48 states. I am build these boards between keeping my other product builds.

Michael

12-03-2013, 08:13 AM

Two questions:
First, What's the difference between the blue and green boards...iare you referring to the color of the letters and numbers? That would make the green the factory configuration right?

Second, what's your paypal addy? I tried your website, but there was no way to purchase the panel there.

Bitsyncmaster

12-03-2013, 10:58 AM

The green is factory colors (backlighting of letters and numbers). All of my boards have the red and blue on the temp adjust. They also have red and orange on the warning lights (factory colors).

DeLorean03

12-03-2013, 11:47 AM

Dave, are they ready with instructions/how-to for installation?

Michael

12-03-2013, 12:03 PM

The green is factory colors (backlighting of letters and numbers). All of my boards have the red and blue on the temp adjust. They also have red and orange on the warning lights (factory colors).

Paypal sent! Looking forward to seeing this first hand.

Bitsyncmaster

12-03-2013, 07:49 PM

Dave, are they ready with instructions/how-to for installation?

My web site seem down. I will post the instructions if it is still down tomorrow. I would rather just use my web site so readers always get the latest updates.

Bitsyncmaster

12-04-2013, 10:59 AM

Looks like my web site has problems. Here is the instal instructions.

Bitsyncmaster

12-05-2013, 03:58 PM

I just remembered you need to remove the spacer on the fan speed switch. The spacer was too large to keep the LEDs properly spaced. One guy suggested to move it the back side. My car had the fan switch glued in with the spacer installed so I had to break the epoxy to remove that spacer and then I used RTV to keep the switch in. Removing the spacer was better anyway because my fan knob stuck out to far.

I will have to add the spacer removal to the install instructions so if you are one of the early installers I would like to hear what you found to work best.

Michael

12-05-2013, 06:41 PM

Bitsyncmaster

12-05-2013, 07:37 PM

Hi Dave, I got my panel in today, thanks for the lightning quick shipping. I have two questions. First, the green daytime running wire, I assume this lights up the board at full illumination whenever power is applied? I could not get it to work, switched power works fine and I can adjust the intensity from the pots, but when I apply the green wire to power, nothing. Is there something I'm missing?

Second, there seems to be one SMD out, I enclosed a pic. It's the one that illuminated the little fan blade icon. I pushed on the sides a bit to see if it was maybe a broke joint, but no luck.
23410

Wow, you wired that up fast.

You ground the green wire to get full bright. That way if you hook it to your running lights, when they are off you get full bright (daylight running).

The Fan LED only illuminates with my fan fail unit when the fans are running. You will still see the fan symbol illuminated without that LED. When the fans are running you will see blue light (if you have green backlights) or green if you have blue backlights.

Michael

12-05-2013, 07:57 PM

Thanks!! I doubt I will mess with it any more tonight, but I should button it all up by the weekend. I had to view the panel with the board behind it, looks so good and I liked the idea of the daytime/nighttime dimmer option. I will definitely get that working.

Bitsyncmaster

12-05-2013, 08:15 PM

Michael

12-05-2013, 08:35 PM

Yes the colors are so vivid that it makes the binnacle look like xxxx.

I hope you have just defined your next project. :smile:

john 05141

12-06-2013, 03:50 AM

I hope you have just defined your next project. :smile:

+1!!!!
Jan
(also very happy owner of Dave's AC panel)

DeLorean03

12-06-2013, 12:56 PM

Looks like I am going to put in an order soon ...

Michael

12-27-2013, 05:57 PM

Finally put mine in today! When I first got mine, I accidentally touched the plug pins to the center console which in turn blew one of the driver chips. Dave was very kind to replace the chip for me..Thanks again Dave!

Anyway, I was very careful this time. The center console in my car gets awfully close to those plug pins, and the only thing keeping them from grounding is a thin layer of vinyl covering over the console. I put a few layers of foam tape over the plug and driver chips just to be safe. So since I had today off and got my dealership sign finished earlier, I installed my panel. Here is a pic of the completed install. I adjusted the brightness to about 60% here. It gets MUCH brighter if that's your preference.
24092

Bitsyncmaster

12-27-2013, 06:32 PM

I run about 30% on my car. Different decals seem more clear than others. Did you wire it up for daylight running?

Michael

12-27-2013, 06:39 PM

I run about 30% on my car. Different decals seem more clear than others. Did you wire it up for daylight running?

My car does not have a "daytime running" option. Being a remanufactured car, there were things changed on it and I guess one of them was to remove the daytime running operation since heat from the factory bulbs running constantly is what caused the factory decals to crack. I was going to hook it back up, but that would mean me tearing everything down further and I just wanted to get it back together. Maybe when the garage is a bit warmer I will look at it again, I'm sure it's just a case of tapping the power feed from the light circuit, to the ignition switch power.

Bitsyncmaster

12-27-2013, 06:49 PM

My car does not have a "daytime running" option. Being a remanufactured car, there were things changed on it and I guess one of them was to remove the daytime running operation since heat from the factory bulbs running constantly is what caused the factory decals to crack. I was going to hook it back up, but that would mean me tearing everything down further and I just wanted to get it back together. Maybe when the garage is a bit warmer I will look at it again, I'm sure it's just a case of tapping the power feed from the light circuit, to the ignition switch power.

You don't use the stock daytime running (resistor). You just hook up that extra wire to power the LED board with switched power (radio power would work). Then you swap the two pins (wires) as shown in my instructions. That lets you enable or disable the daylight operation by just swapping those two wire in the connector.

Running the stock resistor (does anyone still do this) probably would not affect my LED board since it's a very low resistor value. But to get daylight (100% PWM) that extra wire I added to the REV B board has to go to ground.

GS450-Junkie

08-23-2014, 10:01 AM

You don't use the stock daytime running (resistor). You just hook up that extra wire to power the LED board with switched power (radio power would work). Then you swap the two pins (wires) as shown in my instructions. That lets you enable or disable the daylight operation by just swapping those two wire in the connector.

Running the stock resistor (does anyone still do this) probably would not affect my LED board since it's a very low resistor value. But to get daylight (100% PWM) that extra wire I added to the REV B board has to go to ground.

Would radio power be the red wire on the radio? (Ignition wire).

Bitsyncmaster

08-23-2014, 10:19 AM

Would radio power be the red wire on the radio? (Ignition wire).

You would want a power wire that is switched on with the key on. The original wire would be light green/white. If someone has installed a new radio that red wire may be attached to that light green/white wire.

You don't need to connect that "radio power" wire if you never plan to do "daylight running" with the AC panel. I just suggested you connect it so you could swap the two pins without removing the center console to enable day light running. Then you just swap them back to run only with lights on.

I have not connected that wire on my car because it was wired with my prototype board which did not have the day light running option. Next time I have my center console off, I will install that wire in case I decide to do day light running.

GS450-Junkie

08-23-2014, 10:31 AM

Bitsyncmaster

08-23-2014, 12:12 PM

The new radio red wire is indeed connected to the car's green/white wire so I'm assuming that is the one I need.

I like the idea of daylight running on the ac panel. Makes it seem "stock", and since there is no heat issues there with your new board might as well run it!

Yes, tap into that wire. I'm waiting for the new decal someone might make for daytime running but even the old decals will work.

DMC5180

08-23-2014, 08:28 PM

Bitsyncmaster

08-24-2014, 03:56 AM

Running the daylight option is just a matter of installing a standard relay in the a/c panel illumination relay position. If the wiring in the socket is still stock, the center terminal 87a is NC. This is the terminal that allows voltage pass thru for the always ON panel illumination. Switching ON the headlights just changes the circuit to include the RED resistor to lower the panel intensity with incandescent bulbs. This should have no lighting effect with the LED panel due to its low power draw.

+1

That will only work with bulbs. My LED board requires a signal wire to tell the board to use 100% or the adjustable % duty cycle for LED power. The slight voltage drop with the stock resistor will do nothing to my LED board.

It's best to remove that "light relay" since it just adds heat to your relay compartment. Of course you need the jumper or rewire to keep the AC panel lights powered. I also discarded my red resistor so if you need to add another relay that can give you two spare relay sockets.

DMC5180

08-24-2014, 08:07 AM

+1

That will only work with bulbs. My LED board requires a signal wire to tell the board to use 100% or the adjustable % duty cycle for LED power. The slight voltage drop with the stock resistor will do nothing to my LED board.

It's best to remove that "light relay" since it just adds heat to your relay compartment. Of course you need the jumper or rewire to keep the AC panel lights powered. I also discarded my red resistor so if you need to add another relay that can give you two spare relay sockets.

I did not realize you needed the extra signal wire for the dual level lighting option. I just assumed once you set the adjustable level, it was a set and forget it thing and you simply powering the LEDs ON at that level to get the daylight option. Does the extra signal wire actually provide power for the LED illumination by bypassing the PWM circuit ?

Bitsyncmaster

08-24-2014, 08:30 AM

I did not realize you needed the extra signal wire for the dual level lighting option. I just assumed once you set the adjustable level, it was a set and forget it thing and you simply powering the LEDs ON at that level to get the daylight option. Does the extra signal wire actually provide power for the LED illumination by bypassing the PWM circuit ?

Your adjustable intensity sets 0 to 50% PWM to the LEDs. If you ground the signal wire it sets 100% PWM intensity.

Normal no daylight mode has the red wire on my connector on pin 1 and the green wire on pin 4 (center pin). That drives the LED power from the normal running light circuit. That green signal wire is also at 12 volts.

To get daylight running (100 %) you swap those two wires (red now going to pin 4 and green going to pin 1). That drives the LED power as soon as the key is on. Now the signal wire is grounded if your lights are off. Now when you turn the lights on (signal wire goes to 12 volts) your LEDs will dim according to your adjustment.

Swap the pins back to normal to disable daylight running.

GS450-Junkie

08-27-2014, 12:30 AM

Guys,
Just installed my new AC panel update from David and it is incredible. It is amazing, and sooooo beautiful to look at when it's on. It is such a nice feeling to know that the panel is no longer heating up like it used to, and I won't have to go back in there anytime soon. I threw a new ac panel sticker on as well, and it really changes the look and feel of that entire area. David really executed this update extremely well. It is well thought out in many ways. Installation was detailed, and the board was a perfect fit. Even the foam strips thrown in for light bleed on the edges are an exact match with what the factory used (they were on mine at least), and also work well if installed properly. The dimming feature as well as the the ability to order different colors (if he still offers this option down the road) really let the user customize their own unique individual settings, wants and desires. I almost didn't do this mod, but I'm really glad that I did. I will be sure to check out his other mods, and remain hopeful he comes out with even more in the future. Thanks David!!

Shep

09-08-2014, 07:31 PM

Bitsyncmaster

09-08-2014, 07:43 PM

Wow, this looks fantastic Dave!

Went to your website, and I'm a bit confused -- I don't see anywhere to buy these products or prices. Looking through the last few pages of this thread, it looks like the new A/C panel is $100, but I can't tell. I'm interested in a blue one, but I'm not sure what all that comes with? The A/C panel is the last major incandescent fixture I have that is sapping power, and I'd like to replace it. Also, since I've bypassed my rheostat entirely (i.e. it's jumpered and taken out), how does the dimming functionality work? Is it possible to keep it at full brightness all the time and ignore dimming functionality entirely?

PM or email me to order. Price is $110 shipped to USA locations.

The dimming is user adjustable via two little trim pots mounted on the new circuit board. That lets each user set intensity to your liking and some decals need more dimming than others. It is optional to run daylight running at 100% but you would not want that at night (much to bright).

Shep

09-08-2014, 08:58 PM

PM or email me to order. Price is $110 shipped to USA locations.My bad on price. Will shoot you a PM in the next few days!

The dimming is user adjustable via two little trim pots mounted on the new circuit board. That lets each user set intensity to your liking and some decals need more dimming than others. It is optional to run daylight running at 100% but you would not want that at night (much to bright).Interesting, but one problem with that: in all the drives and miles I've accumulated, only two drives were at night, so I'd actually prefer it if it were at 100% intensity all the time. Having upgraded my dashboard to full LED's, I'm already quite accustomed to the full brightness they output. Is it possible to wire up the "daylight running" feature at 100% brightness 24/7?

Bitsyncmaster

09-09-2014, 05:26 AM

My bad on price. Will shoot you a PM in the next few days!

Interesting, but one problem with that: in all the drives and miles I've accumulated, only two drives were at night, so I'd actually prefer it if it were at 100% intensity all the time. Having upgraded my dashboard to full LED's, I'm already quite accustomed to the full brightness they output. Is it possible to wire up the "daylight running" feature at 100% brightness 24/7?

All you need to do is wire the green wire (pin 4 on my connector) to ground to get 100% LED intensity.

The red wire (pin 1 on my connector) is the power wire normally connected to the light circuit. If you want daylight running then you connect it to a circuit with power when the key is on.

Shep

09-09-2014, 06:09 AM

All you need to do is wire the green wire (pin 4 on my connector) to ground to get 100% LED intensity.

The red wire (pin 1 on my connector) is the power wire normally connected to the light circuit. If you want daylight running then you connect it to a circuit with power when the key is on.Perfect, now THAT'S what I'm talking about! :giddy:

Tillsy

09-09-2014, 07:56 AM

I've heavily customised the way my lighting and console works including no headlights with no key, no illumination in accessory mode, full illumination and park lights when on/running, and dimming of my custom console and all other lighting only when full headlights are on.

Having only this past week finally wired up my bitsync ac panel I can confirm I'm using red and black as power when illumination is on, and green grounded unless headlights are on... Works a treat. If you simply terminate the green directly on black you'd have permanent full intensity.

The blue is stunning, absolutely stunning... and if you combine with his solid state rpm relay you even get the fan symbol illuminating specifically only when the fans are on ;)