Pilot Car auction - 15 years ago

[matt clark]

I remember looking at this page when I first got access to the internet, way back when:

http://www.dmcnews.com/Resource/Prototype/prototype.html

Was it ever worked out what pilot car it was? Also - who took those photos? Are they still around in the community? Would be great to see them in higher res...

http://i.imgur.com/fwVis2m.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/a1jmUhA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tnf2M7w.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QR1xNsO.jpg

Apologies if this has been covered.

[Dangermouse]

Interesting.

The only cars that I have seen with the sliding window are Proto 1, which this isn't, and Pilot 20

However, based on the Pilot pages of PJ Grady, I am confused.

http://www.pjgrady.co.uk//GenericContent.aspx?PageType=Pilot_Chronology&ShowContent=Pilot_Cars.html

They show D20 with both sliding and toll windows. D20 has a standard steering wheel, but D19 has the 2 spoke wheel from your picture, but, again, the toll window.

[matt clark]

Quite a few pilots had the sliding windows - the Visioneering car did, and wasn't that the first car of the new shape? I'm waiting on Nick S hopefully being able to ID a pilot car that I have photos of (framed pictures that allegedly came from the factory), and that also has sliding windows.

My understanding was that the sliding windows were around right up until production, but the photos on the PJ Grady site show D5 with the tollbooths, so who knows? I've got a bunch of images of D22 which are tollbooth cars.

[louielouie2000]

Was it ever worked out what pilot car it was? Also - who took those photos? Are they still around in the community?

If I recall, it was James Espey (V.P. of DMC Texas) himself who took the photos. I might be mixing up my rare DeLorean stories, but it seems he knows where the car is currently, and the car's owner does not want to be bothered by the DeLorean community. You can always contact James directly, he is a goldmine of info when it comes to historic DeLoreans.

[Dangermouse]

Quite a few pilots had the sliding windows - the Visioneering car did, and wasn't that the first car of the new shape? I'm waiting on Nick S hopefully being able to ID a pilot car that I have photos of (framed pictures that allegedly came from the factory), and that also has sliding windows.

My understanding was that the sliding windows were around right up until production, but the photos on the PJ Grady site show D5 with the tollbooths, so who knows? I've got a bunch of images of D22 which are tollbooth cars.

I would have though several of the cars would have had the sliders, but the only ones I've actually seen puictures of are P-1 and D20.

D9, 19, 22 & 25 all have tolls. I can't find my pics of 21 atm.

[Farrar]

Off topic, but -- why was the battery moved?

[matt clark]

When I said "I've got a bunch of images of D22 which are tollbooth cars." I actually meant to say "sliding". Can't edit my post now. Whoops!

[PlutonimicX]

If I am not mistaken that seems to be the Visioneering car. It just looks different because it has production wheels and is lacking the rear louvers. It's a shame the owner won't allow the public DeLorean community see the car as it currently sits.

[matt clark]

If I am not mistaken that seems to be the Visioneering car. It just looks different because it has production wheels and is lacking the rear louvers. It's a shame the owner won't allow the public DeLorean community see the car as it currently sits.

I did wonder that; but the auction states that the car never had a grille and that it specifically was a Lotus prototype - which leads me to think it wasn't the V-car.

[PlutonimicX]

There wasn't as much information then as there is now. Another important detail from those pictures is that the interior looks to be fully trimmed to a high standard. Hardly a concern on any of the development pilot cars I think. :cool1:

[matt clark]

Yeah, true - that part of the theory definitely checks out. Would be interesting if James could complete that part of the puzzle!

[PlutonimicX]

Other details to note: The Visioneering car did not have side air intake vents. The other pilot cars that exist do. And for a pre-production car that doesn't appear to have been restored at the time of the pictures, the panel gaps seem to be exceptionally good! I also think that the front grille was unique to the Visioneering car and it's unfortunate that it seems to have been missing along with the wheel covers. The louvers too, as they were of different design lacking grilles.

[louielouie2000]

I also think that the front grille was unique to the Visioneering car and it's unfortunate that it seems to have been missing along with the wheel covers. The louvers too, as they were of different design lacking grilles.

The Visioneering car had hubcabs... they were always meant to be a temporary mock-ups, and were immediately discarded when the tooling for the wheels was finally finished & production wheels became available. Same thing with the front grille.

[tjd]

It's the Visioneering car, no doubt.

[Farrar]

Slightly off topic, but ... if anyone has more photos of that console, it'd be great if you could share them, either in public or send them to me, as I am trying to come up with something similar in my car... Thanks in advance. :)

[dmcjohn]

Hey Farrar,

Check out the album of the Visioneering car on the DeLorean Museum Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/media/set/?set=a.254870127879250.66936.166957630003834&type=3

17053

Some nice pics of the interior there.

Chat soon,
John

[Farrar]

Thanks, John. :)

[matt clark]

Ok, cool. It's the Visioneering car, thanks all for getting that settled. Makes sense. I have more photos of a similar car that need ID'ing, more on that much later... :)

So, moving on... what's this one? Anyone able to put a number on it? Solid windows - possibly plexi - but some level of interior finish (missing handles on the door interiors, no weather stripping around the doors) parts-bin wing mirrors...

Possibly not a pilot car? Just a very, very early production car rushed out for press?

http://i.imgur.com/CSFCuwc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V8BI83V.jpg

1705517056

[Nicholas R]

Ok, cool. It's the Visioneering car, thanks all for getting that settled. Makes sense. I have more photos of a similar car that need ID'ing, more on that much later... :)

So, moving on... what's this one? Anyone able to put a number on it? Solid windows - possibly plexi - but some level of interior finish (missing handles on the door interiors, no weather stripping around the doors) parts-bin wing mirrors...

Possibly not a pilot car? Just a very, very early production car rushed out for press?

http://i.imgur.com/CSFCuwc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/V8BI83V.jpg

1705517056

I dont know, it definitely doesn't look like a production car to me. A lot of elements of the car look pretty similar to the pilot cars. For instance look at the insides of the doors in the photos. Notice how they're painted black? It's because pilot car doors weren't stainless steel on the inside, they were just mild steel. Pilot 21's are also painted black like that. Same with the plexiglass solid windows. Definitely a staple of pilot car doors. Also those mirrors are definitely just bolted to the doors. It's definitely not P21 because the fiberglass body for P21 hasn't been drilled out to allow the installation of a passenger side torsion bar (yup no functioning passenger side door), but my guess is it's a later Pilot car. Vin 500 has all the normal features so I'm not sure why any production car after it would be rushed together for photos.

On a side not, I wonder if people saw those doors and assumed the windows went down all the way, haha.

[Dangermouse]

Those pics were taken for the 1981 Ulster Motor Show, which I think was in the spring time in Belfast. April/May time, after the Geneva show in March (anyone have a picture of that car?)

It looks like a pre-production car (possibly a black car) that was rushed to completion (perhaps Nick S can chime in). The door mirrors look like those off a 1981 Esprit, mounted on a black triangle where the proper ones would later go.

Here is a pic of the interior. Note the absence of a VIN plate

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17078&d=1362776147

17078

[Domi]

One more magazine I would love to find someday :thumbup:

[tjd]

I dont know, it definitely doesn't look like a production car to me. A lot of elements of the car look pretty similar to the pilot cars. For instance look at the insides of the doors in the photos. Notice how they're painted black? It's because pilot car doors weren't stainless steel on the inside, they were just mild steel. Pilot 21's are also painted black like that. Same with the plexiglass solid windows. Definitely a staple of pilot car doors. Also those mirrors are definitely just bolted to the doors. It's definitely not P21 because the fiberglass body for P21 hasn't been drilled out to allow the installation of a passenger side torsion bar (yup no functioning passenger side door), but my guess is it's a later Pilot car. Vin 500 has all the normal features so I'm not sure why any production car after it would be rushed together for photos.

On a side not, I wonder if people saw those doors and assumed the windows went down all the way, haha.

It looks to me like one of the 20 or so hand built training cars, I have a picture somewhere on my hard drive that shows two cars close to completion at DMC that have the insides of the doors painted black like this one. I'd imagine due to the non DeLorean side mirrors and the missing grab handle that this must have been one of the 1st training cars finished, my assumption is DMC probably hadn't yet taken delivery of those parts before this car was completed, at least it's state of completion at the time of these pics. Likely the car still exists in some configuration as a 500 series car.

[Patrick C]

Those pics were taken for the 1981 Ulster Motor Show, which I think was in the spring time in Belfast. April/May time, after the Geneva show in March (anyone have a picture of that car?)

It looks like a pre-production car (possibly a black car) that was rushed to completion (perhaps Nick S can chime in). The door mirrors look like those off a 1981 Esprit, mounted on a black triangle where the proper ones would later go.

Here is a pic of the interior. Note the absence of a VIN plate

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=17078&d=1362776147

17078

No VIN plate, no hole in kneepad for the A/C ducting, no glovebox latch, etc.

[tjd]

No VIN plate, no hole in kneepad for the A/C ducting, no glovebox latch, etc.

Vin 520

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x179/tjdufresne/262570_1789671076550_796124_n_zps7a5215fb.jpg

Looks like the fitting around the hole in kneepad for the A/C is not stock, no glovebox latch or vin plate. It is my understanding 520 was built in December 1980. My opinion the one on the cover of the magazine was built in December 80 as well at DMC, probably earlier then Vin 520.

[tjd]

Here are a couple more pictures of the car that was featured on the magazine, and that same car (likely) and another one being worked on at DMC

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x179/tjdufresne/100_16292_zpsb7669a09.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x179/tjdufresne/100_16301_zpsfdfe49b0.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x179/tjdufresne/mackey2_zps823f850f.jpg

[Domi]

Nice pictures, thanks for sharing ;)

[Nicholas R]

Vin 520

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x179/tjdufresne/262570_1789671076550_796124_n_zps7a5215fb.jpg

Looks like the fitting around the hole in kneepad for the A/C is not stock, no glovebox latch or vin plate. It is my understanding 520 was built in December 1980. My opinion the one on the cover of the magazine was built in December 80 as well at DMC, probably earlier then Vin 520.

Does 520 have black doors on the inside? Looks like the pic above with the girl still has the mild steel doors. I cannot imagine any production cars still had those doors but I guess I could be wrong.

[Rich W]

Does 520 have black doors on the inside? Looks like the pic above with the girl still has the mild steel doors. I cannot imagine any production cars still had those doors but I guess I could be wrong.

VIN...520 has full stainless steel doors (including the inside shells), as do all the 500 series DeLoreans.

However, most of the 500 series DeLoreans have the very early doors made from the early Kirksite door dies,
which made them very difficult to fit and align on these early cars.

[tjd]

VIN...520 has full stainless steel doors (including the inside shells), as do all the 500 series DeLoreans.

However, most of the 500 series DeLoreans have the very early doors made from the early Kirksite door dies,
which made them very difficult to fit and align on these early cars.

Thanks Rich, I thought any of the mild steel inner door cars may had had their doors swapped to production doors once the design was changed.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x179/tjdufresne/mackey2_zps823f850f.jpg

So I guess these are unknown DMC Pilots built prior to Dec 80 then?

[matt clark]

Brilliant info and pictures, TJD, thanks. Loving this thread :)

Nicholas R - good catch on the black door inners. How did I miss that?

[nick sutton]

This is a photograph of a pilot car being assembled in the training building - so pre Dec 1980 any ideas?17735 (Photograph supplied courtesy of Robert Lamrock)

[SamHill]

This is a photograph of a pilot car being assembled in the training building - so pre Dec 1980 any ideas?17735 (Photograph supplied courtesy of Robert Lamrock)

Same rims as the car in Delorean 01955's facebook page

17736

Pic looks to have been taken the same day based on the clothes too

[Domi]

Great picture, thanks for sharing ;)

[DMCH James]

Different cars - note the location of the side markers.

James


Same rims as the car in Delorean 01955's facebook page

17736

Pic looks to have been taken the same day based on the clothes too

[dustybarn]

Those appear to be Revolution racing wheels.

[dmcjohn]

Different cars - note the location of the side markers.

James

Hi James,

Allowing for the length of the side marker lens, looks to me that the car in the assembly building picture would have the side marker lights in the pilot position once fitted, same as the other car mentioned. Compare to a pic of a production panel where the hole appears to be further back the panel:

17897

John

[nick sutton]

Same rims as the car in Delorean 01955's facebook page

17736

Pic looks to have been taken the same day based on the clothes too

Can someone tell me from where did this first photograph come? At the risk of being naive it's certainly been photo shopped at one point because the background is not DMC either training building or main assembly shop.
Nick

[Patrick C]

Can someone tell me from where did this first photograph come? At the risk of being naive it's certainly been photo shopped at one point because the background is not DMC either training building or main assembly shop.
Nick

It is from an issue of National Geographic 1980 I believe. The article dealt with Ireland. I have a copy somewhere.

EDIT: Scan below

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/articles/miscart/miscartng1x1.jpg

[DMCH James]

I always presumed this photo was taken at Lotus. Maybe DMC supplied NatGeo with the image?

James


It is from an issue of National Geographic 1980 I believe. The article dealt with Ireland. I have a copy somewhere.

EDIT: Scan below

http://www.entermyworld.com/cat/articles/miscart/miscartng1x1.jpg