The Resurrection of 3205

[sdg3205]

Like a few others, I started a thread documenting my restoration a while back.

I've got a few new issues I need some advice with, so I'm going to bring it back from the dead!

1. Oil leaks - see the pics below. Though I've used new gaskets on the valve covers, I'm getting a leak. Do i need another new gasket? Also, whatever that is next to the oil filter, it leaks too. I cleaned the oil off for the picture.

2. I changed my front brakes (pads, shims and rotors). Now I've got a shudder under brake load. Does this mean my rotors are out of round?

Any advice? Thanks!

[Rich]

1. Oil leaks - Though I've used new gaskets on the valve covers, I'm getting a leak. Do i need another new gasket? Also, whatever that is next to the oil filter, it leaks too. I cleaned the oil off for the picture.

2. I changed my front brakes (pads, shims and rotors). Now I've got a shudder under brake load. Does this mean my rotors are out of round?


1.a. Valve cover oil leak; When you replaced the valve cover gaskets did you scrape the head or the cover with a hard tool to get the old gasket off? If so then you may have damaged the aluminum seating surfaces. In that case the new gasket cannot seal it well. An intact new gasket between undamaged surfaces with proper torquing should seal OK.

1.b. The item next to the oil filter is the oil pressure sending unit. If it is leaking at the threads then tightening may stop it. If it is leaking from the body then replace it.

2. Brake shudder. One likely cause is contamination on some area of one or both rotors (grease, brake fluid, hand oil) during the brake work. It's not always visible. Try a few doses of brake cleaner on all surfaces (with calipers off or protected from spray) before going for rotor resurfacing.

Another possible cause of shudder shortly after renewing the brakes is improper brake bed-in. See link. Again, resurfacing should give you a fresh start. As with most tech topics this one is not unique to DeLorean brake systems.

Link: Disc brake bed-in procedure pdf (www.powerbrake.co.za/downloads/tech_02_bedin.pdf)

"Using your brakes hard immediately after fitting new discs and pads can result in permanent damage to the discs, poor brake performance, brake judder, shortened disc life..."

[DMCMW Dave]

Like a few others, I started a thread documenting my restoration a while back.

I've got a few new issues I need some advice with, so I'm going to bring it back from the dead!

1. Oil leaks - see the pics below. Though I've used new gaskets on the valve covers, I'm getting a leak. Do i need another new gasket? Also, whatever that is next to the oil filter, it leaks too. I cleaned the oil off for the picture.

2. I changed my front brakes (pads, shims and rotors). Now I've got a shudder under brake load. Does this mean my rotors are out of round?

Any advice? Thanks!

1a. Did you use a sealant? Did you get ALL The old gasket stuff off?
1b. the other answer is fine

2. Did you check that the pistons are not stuck (causes overheating/warping/outgassing etc.)? Did you have the rotors resurfaced?

[sdg3205]

1a. Did you use a sealant? Did you get ALL The old gasket stuff off?
1b. the other answer is fine

2. Did you check that the pistons are not stuck (causes overheating/warping/outgassing etc.)? Did you have the rotors resurfaced?

1. I did not use a sealant. Should I have? I got all the old gasket off.

2. The outer front left (DS) was seized, but it's fine now. I did not have the rotors resurfaced, they were brand new from DMCH. Do I need to do this?

[sdg3205]

Today I removed my CPR. When the car is cold, it accelerates very rough, with dead spots as you accelerate. I was informed it was most likely my CPR, which did make sense. This will last about 5 minutes of initial driving and seems to occur between 500 and 3000 RPM.

Upon inspection I see no burnt wires or clogged screens. Now I'm thinking it could be the thermistor in the Y-pipe back down in the valley.

Some pics are attached.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Bitsyncmaster]

Today I removed my CPR. When the car is cold, it accelerates very rough, with dead spots as you accelerate. I was informed it was most likely my CPR, which did make sense. This will last about 5 minutes of initial driving and seems to occur between 500 and 3000 RPM.

Upon inspection I see no burnt wires or clogged screens. Now I'm thinking it could be the thermistor in the Y-pipe back down in the valley.

Some pics are attached.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Make sure you get power on the connector on the CPR when the engine is running. Without power on the CPR you will be running very rich for a long time.

Have you set your mixture after the engine has fully warmed up? That adjustment does affect the mixture during warmup.

[Bitsyncmaster]

1. I did not use a sealant. Should I have? I got all the old gasket off.

2. The outer front left (DS) was seized, but it's fine now. I did not have the rotors resurfaced, they were brand new from DMCH. Do I need to do this?

I have always used a sealant on valve cover gaskets. Not sure if with our cast aluminum covers can do without it but the old steel covers would never seal with heavy application of sealant.

[sdg3205]

Make sure you get power on the connector on the CPR when the engine is running. Without power on the CPR you will be running very rich for a long time.

Have you set your mixture after the engine has fully warmed up? That adjustment does affect the mixture during warmup.

Can I just use a volt meter and look for 12v at the CPR harness, Dave?

I have not set me mixture. I think Mike outlined a good method using 6 corona bottles not long ago, but if you've got a good one please do tell. Or can I use the work shop manual?

Thanks!

[opethmike]

Start with the empty bottles method to get it 'in the ballpark'. Then hook a dwell meter into the diagnostic port and set it from there.

[sdg3205]

Start with the empty bottles method to get it 'in the ballpark'. Then hook a dwell meter into the diagnostic port and set it from there.

Mike, do you recall which thread was it in where you outlined this method?

[sdg3205]

In regards to my oil leaks.

I degreased the suspect area thoroughly then went for a cruise to see where the oil appeared.

It looks like it's coming from 2 spots:

1. The threaded portion of the oil sensor

2. 3 specific bolts on the oil pan.

So here's my question

For 1, can I remove the oil filter so as to access the oil sensor to tighten it without loosing my oil? Otherwise you cannot access it even with the muffler bracket removed.

For 2 there is no weeping on the oil pan gasket, it is JUST on those 3 bolts, like its seeping through the threading or something. Can I tighten or create small gaskets just for those bolts from a gasket kit (store bought)?

Thanks!

[sdg3205]

Here are some pics of the oil leaks.

The drain plug is bone dry btw.

[sdg3205]

Make sure you get power on the connector on the CPR when the engine is running. Without power on the CPR you will be running very rich for a long time.

Have you set your mixture after the engine has fully warmed up? That adjustment does affect the mixture during warmup.

Hey Dave,

I've got about 14v at the CPR harness.

Still trying to figure out the best way to adjust the mixture.

[Bitsyncmaster]

Hey Dave,

I've got about 14v at the CPR harness.

Still trying to figure out the best way to adjust the mixture.

Best way is with a dwell meter on the frequency valve. Is your mixture adjustment screw drilled out? Does your FV even buzz?

[sdg3205]

Best way is with a dwell meter on the frequency valve. Is your mixture adjustment screw drilled out? Does your FV even buzz?

I've never heard the FV make a sound.

I've hit the full speed micro switch at operating temp without any noticeable difference in FV noise or idle.

What do you mean by testing the dwell "on the FV"? Do i pull of the harness and use that?

[Bitsyncmaster]

I've never heard the FV make a sound.

I've hit the full speed micro switch at operating temp without any noticeable difference in FV noise or idle.

What do you mean by testing the dwell "on the FV"? Do i pull of the harness and use that?

Put a long screwdriver on the FV and hold the handle on your ear. It works just like a stethoscope. You should hear it buzz loudly during warmup or with WOT switch pressed no matter what the mixture setting is. It should also buzz about the same intensity running hot if your mixture is close to correct. If you don't get a buzz you have an electrical problem.

You attach the dwell on the orange wire going to the diagnostic port and use engine ground for the dwell ground. You can also read the dwell on the red/brown wire going to the FV. The FV gets a signal of varying duty cycle to control it's operation. Reading that duty cycle will let you adjust the mixture to optimal setting.

[sdg3205]

Put a long screwdriver on the FV and hold the handle on your ear. It works just like a stethoscope. You should hear it buzz loudly during warmup or with WOT switch pressed no matter what the mixture setting is. It should also buzz about the same intensity running hot if your mixture is close to correct. If you don't get a buzz you have an electrical problem.

You attach the dwell on the orange wire going to the diagnostic port and use engine ground for the dwell ground. You can also read the dwell on the red/brown wire going to the FV. The FV gets a signal of varying duty cycle to control it's operation. Reading that duty cycle will let you adjust the mixture to optimal setting.

I figured it all out.

One of the pins under the lambda relay was pushed out. Just goes to show the most simple solution is usually the best one. I've been running a poop-tastically rich car as long as I've had it.

The FV fired right up. I adjusted the mixture on my analogue dwell meter and got a fluctuation between 20 and 40 at warm idle. The mixture was so rich just to overcome the missing FV operation. Leaned it out quite a lot.

The difference in the car is unbelievable. I have power before 3000 RPM now! A lot of it! The hunting idle is also gone - even at operating temperature with headlights, cooling fans and cabin HVAC fans on.

Yeah, I'm pretty happy right now.

[opethmike]

Thumbs up! Awesome man, enjoy the car!

[sdg3205]

Thanks mike!

I've got a professional photo shoot with the car tonight. Keep an eye out!

[Rich]

In regards to my oil leaks.

For 1, can I remove the oil filter so as to access the oil sensor to tighten it without loosing my oil?

For 2 there is no weeping on the oil pan gasket, it is JUST on those 3 bolts, like its seeping through the threading or something. Can I tighten or create small gaskets just for those bolts from a gasket kit (store bought)?


1. Yes. You'll lose some of the oil from the filter when you remove it. Almost all of the oil is below that, in the sump, where it will stay.

2. No harm in making sure the pan bolts are tight all around. Be careful not to over-tighten them. The book calls for 7-11 lb-ft on those.

[TTait]

1. Oil leaks - see the pics below. Though I've used new gaskets on the valve covers, I'm getting a leak.

If you had your heads rebuilt, they may have shaved a little bit of height off them. In this case the timing chain cover will sit slightly higher than the top of the head, creating a gap. You need to use sealant to get this gap to close up.

[sdg3205]

If you had your heads rebuilt, they may have shaved a little bit of height off them. In this case the timing chain cover will sit slightly higher than the top of the head, creating a gap. You need to use sealant to get this gap to close up.

Is there a particular sealant I should look for?

[sdg3205]

These are mine.

The ones the photographer took are just unreal! Not sure when I'll get to see them.

Here (http://andrewholliday.squarespace.com/blog/category/automotive) is his website.

His name is Andrew Holliday. He's very professional and I'd highly recommend him if any folks in the PNDC are looking for photographers.

More to come soon.

[sdg3205]

Tonight I took a stab at my oil leaks.

Recall I had several leaks (the pictures are posted in previous posts). I used teflon tape on the oil pan bolts that were leaking and torqued to spec. One of the 3 bolts stopped leaking and the other 2 seem worse. Now it seems like the oil pan gasket might be sweating more but it could also be run off from the oil sensor, Im not sure.

The oil sensor I didn't touch but it leaks pretty badly. I dont think I can do much with it because you need to remove the oil filter to get any sort of wrench/tool in there.

Open to suggestions.

Good thing I moved recently so i have lots of cardboard catch basins.

[dhaney]

[QUOTE=sdg3205;7478]
The oil sensor I didn't touch but it leaks pretty badly. I dont think I can do much with it because you need to remove the oil filter to get any sort of wrench/tool in there.

Open to suggestions.
[QUOTE]

You must know this but just in case.

Change your oil, when you remove the filter take off the oil pressure sender, clean the threads on both the block and the sender, put some teflon tape on the threads of the sendor and replace. Finish changing the oil. No more leak.

I would deal with this before the others, it could be the source of what looks like an oil pan leak.

Dan

[sdg3205]

You must know this but just in case.

Change your oil, when you remove the filter take off the oil pressure sender, clean the threads on both the block and the sender, put some teflon tape on the threads of the sendor and replace. Finish changing the oil. No more leak.

I would deal with this before the others, it could be the source of what looks like an oil pan leak.

Dan

Totally, I've only got about 500 miles on the oil which is why I'm hesitant to do another change.

If I was driving it daily I'd hop on it, but at once a week I'm willing to wait it out a bit.

I'm also fairly sure the bolts are also at fault because I did a full degrease followed by a drive and found drops before they trekked far from their source.

You can bet the oil sensor will get the royal treatment at some point though. Thanks!

[sdg3205]

It's a rare but nice surprise when something just starts working on it's own accord.

It's always worked for the seat belts, but I had no idea the buzzer was supposed to work with the car running and the doors open, but after a crackle or two the buzzer kicked in randomly the other day and has kept up its proper function ever since.

nice.

[dmc6960]

It's always worked for the seat belts, but I had no idea the buzzer was supposed to work with the car running and the doors open, but after a crackle or two the buzzer kicked in randomly the other day and has kept up its proper function ever since.

Thats what the second switch on the driver's door is for. One for curtsey lights, the other for the buzzer.

[sdg3205]

Thats what the second switch on the driver's door is for. One for curtsey lights, the other for the buzzer.

I'd always figured it was for the "door ajar" light.

The more you know!

[dmc6960]

The "Door Ajar" light is powered (grounded) from the door lights circuit. Should come on if either door is open...

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=102&d=1306264529

[sdg3205]

Here's a question for you, Jim.

I've never been able to solve the mystery of why my 2 courtesy lights fail to work properly.

- they work if you manually engage the light to either position
- they will not turn on by opening doors
- they will not turn off (in either position) by closing the doors
- removed delay relay because I'm running LED's

[dmc6960]

Most common problem would be they are wired wrong. Solid purple goes on the single contact side. The black and the purple/white go on the dual side.

Other problem could be shorted diodes. Does the door ajar light work with either door? Do the door marker lights work correctly? (marker lights are individual per door switch)

[DeloreanJoshQ]

from www.specialtauto.com

http://www.specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/courtsey-light.jpg

[sdg3205]

I have a feeling the diodes are toast. The door ajar and door side marker lights all work perfectly.

I've also arranged my wires as outlined by the special T picture (the one josh just posted).

It's the 3 diodes in the drivers side foot well i believe.

[sdg3205]

After exhausting all other options I got down under the dash and tested the diodes associated with the door. Turns out the black diode was toast.

Replaced black diode, lights work perfectly.

Thanks, Slim Fast!

[sdg3205]

Turns out another diode must be toast, because now the interior lights only turn on with the drivers door open.

I might as well just replace both of the remaining 2 at this point!

[sdg3205]

What shit show.

Last night, the morons who are working to improve our highway decided it would be a good idea to close the highway... on a saturday. Now normally this wouldnt be a problem, but this was Vancouver's "Celebration Of Light", which is a huge deal in Vancouver brining over 100,000 additional people downtown.

I was stuck in traffic for 2 hours from 1am to 3am after getting off work. Exactly what I knew would eventually happen, happened.

I outlined my cars tendency to buck and stumble when warm. To review:

- only when hot
- even on a full tank of cold gas
- stops bucking above 2500 RPM
- ignition and fuel system recently upgraded

So here's what happened:

The car was running well - the fans were kicking on and off, car was staying cool (around 180). The voltage stayed around 14v. Then after about an hour it started running rougher. Eventually it died, took to panic and swearing for it to start again. Finally got off the highway and pushed it to clean up the plugs a bit and get home and to bed. Hit about 75 mph

Then the bucking and stumbling got worse and got nearly impossible to pick up speed, across the entire power band and now I start to hear some knocking and pinging (like it was overheating). The car died again out in the middle of butt f*&% nowhere. I called the tow truck. 20 minutes later, it fires up again. Still running rough (but not nearly as badly), i cancel the tow truck and drive the rest of the way home, where it dies again outside my garage and I push it in at 4am.

The car didn't overheat, the cooling system was holding pressure like a champ. Lots of oil, good voltage. I'm stuck.

Earlier it was suggested to me this might be a spark advance thing. Would spark advance behave like this? Could my pickup hose have been collapsing and now just be totally collapsing, thus completely stalling?

I hope work gets cancelled today so I can figure this out.

[Bitsyncmaster]

My wild ass guess would be the fuel pump. I don't think spark advance changes would cause the problems you describe.

How does it run today when cooled off?

[TTait]

Debris could be clogging the pickup screen too...

[sdg3205]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards fuel tank issues. I don't understand why the timing or spark advance would do this.

Start with the most simple possibilities first, right?!

I've also decided Toby's fans are going in too. As long as you're not in 2 hours of traffic, OEM fans are fine, but throw in headlights and HVAC, 2 hrs of idling, radio, etc and things start getting a little worrisome.

[sdg3205]

My wild ass guess would be the fuel pump. I don't think spark advance changes would cause the problems you describe.

How does it run today when cooled off?

I fired it up before work this morning. Started and idled like a champ.

Guess I'll have to dive into that tank next chance I get.

[sdg3205]

I've been installing my new speakers. I'm doing an all Infinity Kappa system. 3.5's up front and 5.5's in the rear (as opposed to the 6x10's).

Im seriously considering adding a sub as well.

I found ANOTHER mouse nest and carcass behind the speaker panel which brings my mouse total to about 5 or 6 now.

You can see how worn out the old paper Craigs are.

I also added the "Turin" plate in the engine compartment. Really like the way it looks.

New courtesy lights will be going in. The old ones are so finicky and tend to flicker on certain settings.