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ALEXAKOS
07-20-2013, 04:11 PM
Hey Guys, You may have followed my restoration of 5992 thread. (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?6452-5992-Trip-to-Greece-Restoration-and-Speculations/page8&highlight=5992)

On my quest for mods I was having second thoughts about the fuel system.

I met with an experienced Renault Alpine Racing mechanic the other day, and I mentioned my interest in getting the D a bit more "Sports" in to the "car".

The open 997 Porsche exhaust I bought, will help a bit and I am also considering a fuel feed upgrade. I know most of you think that Carbs are a rollback and not an upgrade.

Read many interesting EFI reports to stick to the quite stable and safe K-jet system. But since my K-jet system needs a serious overhaul... might as well exchange.

This is what I found as an alternative:
http://www.a310alpine.com/IMG_3930.JPG

3X double Weber 42 IDA's on our PRV.

How many say go and how many say no?

NightFlyer
07-20-2013, 04:20 PM
Looks SWEET to me!

One thing with Webbers though is that it seems like they constantly need adjustment.

I say go for it!

thirdmanj
07-20-2013, 04:34 PM
Weber on a D?
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/21/ma6y4aty.jpg

NightFlyer
07-20-2013, 04:38 PM
@James - That's GREAT! :thumbup:

LordFly
07-20-2013, 04:41 PM
If you understand how they work, go for it. I personally don't understand the K-jet system at all, and I don't know much about carbs either. When my engine is on it's way out, I've got a spare 4G63 turbo engine just sitting around that I think would fit nicely :D

pezzonovante88
07-20-2013, 05:31 PM
Oh HELL yes! I was wondering when somebody would put Webers on a DeLorean.

pezzonovante88
07-20-2013, 05:32 PM
@ James - Brilliant.

Ron
07-20-2013, 06:08 PM
LOL@ James
(GTOTHB!)


I was weaned on old school and have seen Webbers are great carbs, the linkage can be a bit to keep adjusted but the carbs themselves are no problem. But, I have to say a three duces on our PRV is a um, waste...
Looks cool to me tho!

ALEXAKOS
07-21-2013, 04:06 AM
@ James
That pic proved to me that its a great idea! I was thinking of going with the classic red weber actually and the bigger size!! Love you man! Happy got got banned on that other place;) now you can spend more time with us here!!!!

@ everybody
Wow! Did not expect such an enthusiasm from you on carbs. I though you all support the stock config.
I know carbs are very tuning happy systems. But like my Lord, states, I do not like working on that K-jet system.

A friend owns a Porsche 911 from the 70's and he exchanged his bosh for webers.
He said the webers made the Porsche 4X better than it was! At last having fun driving! He added.

Ok will let you know more mid August when a racing alpine engine is coming my way for parts picking.

BABIS
07-21-2013, 04:08 PM
you may like 2 x triple IDA Weber carburetors instead of 3 double throats..

the Rally Group 4 Alpine A310 engines had 48mm IDAs..

http://www.classicscars.com/alpine/a310blured/car4.jpg ( a pic of the set up)

Jimmyvonviggle
07-21-2013, 04:16 PM
Does the engine cover close with those carbs?

Why the 3 carb set up? In the old days the only reason for a multi carb set up was because they were single barrelled.

Ron
07-21-2013, 04:32 PM
My 66 GTO came with 3 duces from the factory (RPs)...they needed the fuel.

AdmiralSenn
07-21-2013, 06:47 PM
This is not meant to be a criticism or anything, but I spoke to someone once about the same setup for Christine and he said that while it improves the power, it's not happy until it's at full or nearly full throttle.

That may not be important to you, but a lot of people want a car that's civilized in town and sporty on the straightaways. If that's the case for you then you may need to think about how it will drive.

Of course I could be completely wrong as I never drove a D with that setup so this is more of a 'maybe this could potentially be an issue' type thing.

Nicholas R
07-21-2013, 07:11 PM
Does the engine cover close with those carbs?

Why the 3 carb set up? In the old days the only reason for a multi carb set up was because they were single barrelled.

I'm assuming only one set of barrels will be set up as primaries. The other four barrels will be set up as secondaries to open under load/acceleration/full throttle. Its a pretty common setup on muscle cars. No engine could run all 6 barrels all the time. You would constantly flood the engine.

Ron
07-21-2013, 08:29 PM
Looking at what can be seem of the tubes and not seeing a choke mechanism on the center set, I can see them as running in pairs. I've seen it before -- They just jet them all down while matching...similar to dual quad setups (never liked them much...).
The goat has them set up as you said.

Roman Legion
07-22-2013, 01:24 AM
I'm far from an expert, but it seems the weber will give you more power. If that's what you're looking for, I'd say go for it.

Farrar
07-22-2013, 01:48 AM
I'm guessing that the racing engine has single-plane intake manifolds. Single-plane manifolds (e.g. Volvo A-Series) are happier at higher RPMs. A manifold with one plane per cylinder bank (e.g. mine) would behave better at lower RPMs.

ALEXAKOS
07-22-2013, 04:24 AM
you may like 2 x triple IDA Weber carburetors instead of 3 double throats..
the Rally Group 4 Alpine A310 engines had 48mm IDAs..
Thanx. I have a two triple IDA's of a 911 in mind already. Dono yet. Will explain soon.


it's not happy until it's at full or nearly full throttle.

Right about IDA's not IDF's


I'm assuming only one set of barrels will be set up as primaries. The other four barrels will be set up as secondaries to open under load/acceleration/full throttle. Its a pretty common setup on muscle cars. No engine could run all 6 barrels all the time. You would constantly flood the engine.
Well said Nick;)


I'd say go for it.
THANX:)


Ok. After a long search I am between the 40 IDA's (racing) and the 44/48 IDF's

The difference is that the IDA's are not really the street type carbs as they are happy with full throttle (and they kick some booty at that) plus they are 2X-3X more expensive used than the IDF's new prices.

Now the IDF's have a better progression in power, but do not "climax" as high as the IDA's. So they are stronger at the low RPM's but weaker at the highs.
Should I want my D to take place at races, the IDA's are my choice. But for regular driving with some salt and pepper, IDF's is the way to go.

A few specialists even make slight mods to let the IDF's reach a better peak but not as high as the IDA's. Still a small upgrade... With the downside loosing some better progression.


I will see what that racing Alpine engine is coming in with and update you folks with news. For now the 42IDA are impossible to find! Only used 2x triple 40s are on sale around the world off 911's.
Then I need to get a PRV matching intake manifold for them. Any links or contacts to that?

BABIS
07-22-2013, 04:35 PM
Then I need to get a PRV matching intake manifold for them. Any links or contacts to that?

at the end of this page you will find something interesting posted by Cineman ;) http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?95-Ask-Bill-about-carbing-a-DeLorean-and-other-K-Jet-Carb-tangets/page31

ALEXAKOS
07-23-2013, 03:56 AM
GREAT find BABIS! Thank you!~

BTW yes those are the ones I have in mind. Those go for 1200 a set. But does the Porsche intake manifold fit the PRV? That is my problem / question.

ALEXAKOS
07-24-2013, 10:49 AM
Newsflash.
Spoke to a Weber and Dellorto carbs tuner. He has a 35 year experience on both.

Prefers Dellorto side configuration carbs. May have minimal power decrease but are stable, run more efficient and are trouble free.

He told me to beware of used carbs IDA and IDF's sold on the web. Most are in terrible condition and you may not ever get those back to normal output if we don't do a massive overhaul. Gasoline over the years, tends to strip off the carb interior walls creating a sand like residue all over the carbs. That means a complete overhaul on them.

So I got a 32 years experienced Renault Alpine Mechanic on my side and a 35 Year experienced carbs mechanic. What else do I need???? :notworthy:

BABIS
07-24-2013, 11:35 AM
Newsflash.
Spoke to a Weber and Dellorto carbs tuner. He has a 35 year experience on both.

Prefers Dellorto side configuration carbs. May have minimal power decrease but are stable, run more efficient and are trouble free.

He told me to beware of used carbs IDA and IDF's sold on the web. Most are in terrible condition and you may not ever get those back to normal output if we don't do a massive overhaul. Gasoline over the years, tends to strip off the carb interior walls creating a sand like residue all over the carbs. That means a complete overhaul on them.

So I got a 32 years experienced Renault Alpine Mechanic on my side and a 35 Year experienced carbs mechanic. What else do I need???? :notworthy:

the carbs themselves :D

anyway, very interesting point of view. I have experience with the Dellorto DHLA series, I'm running one on my bike, they are very good and tunable..
I like much more the look of 2 triple throats on the prv platform. with 3 double throats it may be tricky to get the right carbs sync every time..

Dangermouse
07-24-2013, 01:52 PM
DelToros ?

http://dmctalk.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20710&d=1374684662

ALEXAKOS
07-24-2013, 04:36 PM
Oh Sweet! I have seen that at a photobucket album.
Not sure. Have not seen any downdraft Delltoros yet. Could be.

I am currently looking at sidedraft carbs to avoid too much height in the engine compartment.

eagle-co94
07-24-2013, 08:23 PM
I'd say getting the carbs is the easy part. Getting the manifold is not quite as easy. If you're serious about doing this though...let me know as I have a manifold in the garage. It's not going on as long as 1045's K-Jet is working.

vwdmc16
07-24-2013, 11:11 PM
With my experience in Aircooled VWs, IDF carbs are way more streetable and cheaper than IDAs. And as you have said The quality old italian carbs are hard to find in usable condition. Proper rebuilds take alot of money, easily 2x as much as the carb cost to buy.

Also In my experience the level of quality for carbs is as follows:

Better:> Italian -----Spanish-----Brazilian-----Mexican------Chinese < Worse

ALEXAKOS
07-25-2013, 02:21 AM
Thanx for your insights.
So I am on the right path.
James hit me with an image of that manifold per pm
Thanx:cool1:

Farrar
07-25-2013, 12:36 PM
In my experience the level of quality for carbs is as follows:

Better:> Italian -----Spanish-----Brazilian-----Mexican------Chinese < Worse

Where does "Made in U.S.A." fall on that spectrum?

Ron
07-25-2013, 01:00 PM
Just consider what (most) racers had on top of their mill in the carb days.

20730
HOLLEY Made in USA

ALEXAKOS
07-25-2013, 04:43 PM
Good idea Ron. Holleys are Great!Q Had em on my Corvette;)

This being a European motor and having several Italian carbs technicians in my area. I'd rather go safe.

Not really a fan of Italian mechanics but... When in Rome.. ;)

With my vette I never found a decent mechanic to tune and maintain it correctly. Most of the work done was by my self at the end.:drunk:

Ron
07-26-2013, 03:34 PM
OT moved HERE (http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?7734-OT-***-Split-from-Webber-on-a-D-***)

ALEXAKOS
07-27-2013, 05:53 AM
Well well. I see the poll is getting some weight shift slowly to the Coservatives.

BABIS
07-29-2013, 02:06 PM
hope this helps - carb manifolds http://www.chadil.eu/store/product.php?id_product=955

ALEXAKOS
07-30-2013, 03:45 AM
hope this helps - carb manifolds http://www.chadil.eu/store/product.php?id_product=955
GREAT FIND BABIS!:jawdrop:
You got the mojo;)

Its a bit pricy. A local Carburator specialist promised me a customized intake at just 120 euros

Do we know if the valve intakes are exactly the same on all PRV's Cause the A310 had a 2664cc and the Delorean's 2849cc engine was used on the A610 GT D500 version

Jim Storm
09-01-2013, 10:48 PM
21728

pezzonovante88
09-02-2013, 01:48 PM
21728

Cool! Any videos of it running?

Jim Storm
09-11-2013, 02:35 PM
21896works well goes with design of rear deck struck mold off a lambo kit

vwdmc16
09-11-2013, 10:39 PM
Bet that gets tons of ram air effect...under the louvers.:(

thirdmanj
09-11-2013, 10:53 PM
Bet that gets tons of ram air effect...under the louvers.:(

Kinda what I was thinking. I saw an MR2 the other day that had a snorkel type set up coming out to get ram air. I imagine a similar set up would do for the D.

BABIS
09-12-2013, 05:31 AM
Kinda what I was thinking. I saw an MR2 the other day that had a snorkel type set up coming out to get ram air. I imagine a similar set up would do for the D.

Deloman did something similar with his racing D.. http://www.deloman.de/projektemenu/racingteam

Jim Storm
09-12-2013, 12:14 PM
21913

ALEXAKOS
09-12-2013, 04:10 PM
nice work.
So what did you get out of that mod and what else have you added?

Jim Storm
09-12-2013, 07:53 PM
nice work.
So what did you get out of that mod and what else have you added?

just trying to keep the water out just like to tinker no real direction lol:tantrum:

ALEXAKOS
09-13-2013, 02:27 AM
hahah
No I was asking about the webers. What HP addition did you get out of them and what other mods have you done on your engine?

dmc3758
01-30-2014, 12:48 AM
:rock_on: Still tuning but was driven regularly 20 yrs ago before parked. Photo is from a year ago when it was dug out of a garage. Hoping to be drivable by the time the warm weather arrives

BABIS
01-30-2014, 06:21 AM
:rock_on: Still tuning but was driven regularly 20 yrs ago before parked. Photo is from a year ago when it was dug out of a garage. Hoping to be drivable by the time the warm weather arrives

awesome setup! you should add a Volvo ignition distributor and a free flow exhaust and you will have a nice beast to ride 8)

pezzonovante88
01-30-2014, 05:20 PM
:rock_on: Still tuning but was driven regularly 20 yrs ago before parked. Photo is from a year ago when it was dug out of a garage. Hoping to be drivable by the time the warm weather arrives

Very cool. Keep us posted!

keepitsimple
08-01-2014, 09:27 PM
Very cool. Keep us posted!

I have a 350 cfm holley on my vin 3145 and I am very happy with the performance. The intake is from a peugeot 605 with the front one barrel blocked off. the ppl at national carb rebuilders said I didn't need anything bigger.