Starting a DIY Maintenance Business

[DMC1983]

It's been a while since Ive browsed the forums not only because I dont own a DeLorean anymore, but because I switched over to the Ferrari one :neener: I do enjoy coming back here though! Whenever I can, I just know that this close knit community with superior knowledge in the different facets of life could always provide the right edge I need to move forward with the right decisions. To that, I thank you all!

In recent discussions with colleagues and close friends, Ive decided to try my hand at starting a small business in DIY auto repair. In this part of the country (moreover, Ohio in general) a DIY shop, where people with a shade tree background, could come and work on their cars in a professionally furnished location is almost unheard of. I'm hoping to fill the niche by providing central Ohio with a single location and if all goes well, maybe a few more. Being that the DeLorean community is filled with do-it-yourselfers, how would you all feel about that?
Is it something that could thrive? Give me your opinions.

On most active duty military installations, accommodations like this are available. They yield a lift, common hand tools, air tools, and specialty tools that can be checked out at a cage. A liability waiver must be signed in order to show that you know how to use a tool as well as a small deposit in the event you break it.

I know that many people like myself am always looking for a well heated garage with everything available to complete a project. Not to mention, I know that a lot of people out there are like me, and may not even have a non heated garage... let alone a garage at all.

Any and every idea here counts! I appreciate the feedback!

[DMCVegas]

It's been a while since Ive browsed the forums not only because I dont own a DeLorean anymore, but because I switched over to the Ferrari one :neener: I do enjoy coming back here though! Whenever I can, I just know that this close knit community with superior knowledge in the different facets of life could always provide the right edge I need to move forward with the right decisions. To that, I thank you all!

In recent discussions with colleagues and close friends, Ive decided to try my hand at starting a small business in DIY auto repair. In this part of the country (moreover, Ohio in general) a DIY shop, where people with a shade tree background, could come and work on their cars in a professionally furnished location is almost unheard of. I'm hoping to fill the niche by providing central Ohio with a single location and if all goes well, maybe a few more. Being that the DeLorean community is filled with do-it-yourselfers, how would you all feel about that?
Is it something that could thrive? Give me your opinions.

On most active duty military installations, accommodations like this are available. They yield a lift, common hand tools, air tools, and specialty tools that can be checked out at a cage. A liability waiver must be signed in order to show that you know how to use a tool as well as a small deposit in the event you break it.

I know that many people like myself am always looking for a well heated garage with everything available to complete a project. Not to mention, I know that a lot of people out there are like me, and may not even have a non heated garage... let alone a garage at all.

Any and every idea here counts! I appreciate the feedback!

I don't know about the logistics involved in such a business with insurance, rates, etc. However I would say that if your shop was near mine I would absolutely use the hell out of it for my vehicles! The Community College back in Vegas was supposed to have something similar to this for it's students, but I never checked it out.

Question though: What about a DIY that gets in over their head or simply runs out of money and they wind up abandoning their vehicle in a bay or just leave things hanging around? What are the rules for leaving vehicles unattended for periods of time?

[Michael]

If you see this guy, tell him to go somewhere else.


http://threesecondsofdeadair.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/christine-still-2.jpg

[mluder]

I think the biggest challenge you would face would be the amount of liability insurance you would have to carry. I once spoke to a mechanic friend of mine about the possibility of "renting" some time on one of his lifts and he basically told me he can't because of the risk involved.

You also would have to consider what type of screening process you have for who can use the shop. Will you take anyone regardless of their experience level? Can you legally exclude someone from using the shop? Would you fell good about letting some one use your tools if they have never used those types before? Would you be there to instruct them on how to use them? What liability do you take on if they then screw something up based on your instruction?

Don't get me wrong... I love the idea and wish their was something similar here. You might investigate some established Hacker Spaces such as TechShop in San Francisco. They offer rental workshop space including tools for artists and craftspeople.

Just dome thoughts... Good luck.
Cheers
Steven

[Spittybug]

I too have long thought this would make for a great business. Put the brewery in the back corner, turn wrenches on my car and rent out the rest of the space! It's the damn lawyers that I think will kill you as others have said.

It is impossible to waive away one's rights. You can sign every paper in the world, but as soon as a lawyer gets involved they can FU$% things up so badly that even if you didn't ultimately lose, you'd spend way too much in having to defend yourself. The insurance companies know that and jack the rates sky high so as to be able to simply settle. Nobody is interested in justice anymore, just clearing the cases in the most cost effective manner.

If you do proceed, video surveillance could be your friend. Record everything. Pictures of incompetent use of equipment is worth a thousand words.

[Kane]

This guy has one running near Seattle. You can try to contact him for help, but I have heard he doesn't like to give info out freely.

http://selfservegarage.com/

[DMCVegas]

This guy has one running near Seattle. You can try to contact him for help, but I have heard he doesn't like to give info out freely.

http://selfservegarage.com/

$200 a day to rent a bay? DAMN! I doubt this guy gives much of ANYTHING away free...

[Mark D]

I'd be interested in a workspace like that if there was one available locally. I could really use a heated garage at the moment to work on my daily driver and swap out some cooling system parts. It's just been too damn cold here lately so I'm on borrowed time until the weather warms up.

As others have mentioned I think the insurance and liability issues will most likely be the deciding factor if this works out for you or not.

[Jimmyvonviggle]

I think 200 bucks a day is pricey. They should charge much less and get you on the tool rentals and snacks.

[DMCMW Dave]

That's funny. This is something I've thought about over the years and even discussed with like-minded individuals. Think about the numbers.

A typical General Automotive Repair shop across the US charges about $100/hour for mechanic time (mostly more but it makes the math easy, maybe less for a muffler shop type operation). The mechanic represents about a quarter of that or a bit more depending on who and where, and the benefit level. That leaves, say, $75 an hour per bay, (most small shops run 2-3 bays) for the cost of the insurance, building rent, heat, lights, other employees, payback or payments on the shop equipment (lifts, jacks, air compressor) and hopefully the owner is doing this to eat (I know it's a dirty word, but it's usually called Profit Margin). In a GAR shop the owner is also making money on the parts, in this case he might sell a few cans of Coke and some Doritos. If you try to make up the margin on snacks, everyone will bring their own.

So - if you were generous, and on the low end of the cost scale (i.e. put this in a crummy neighborhood with cheap rent, hire your wife and kids to be the help) and only had to charge $50 an hour per bay, that comes out to $400/day (assuming an 8-hour day). So to me that $200/day for a bay sounds like a smokin' deal. I'd be curious what the guy mentioned is netting out at $25/hour. Obviously he could have more bays but that presumes they stay full. To have the place full you'd need to be open oddball hours, such as late afternoon to midnight, and long weekends. I.E the times DIYers what to work on their cars. From a personal perspective that is a pain, and for an operation like this you really can't leave it manned by a bunch of minimum wage high school kids when you are not there. So you would live there.

Then you get into the other problems:
--insuring yourself from the liability of some guy dropping an transmission on his head. I would be shocked if you can even buy such insurance.
--tool theft/breakage/maintenance
--what happens when the guy runs out of skill/parts/tools and you now have a car in the bay stuck on your lift with no suspension on it? Can you charge him to drag it outside and then daily storage? Are you providing lot insurance against someone vandalizing his car?
--who cleans up? If you have to hire a shop assistant to pick up after everyone, the cost goes up more.
--dealing with people who are just idiots or drunk.

So if people are complaining that $200 a day ($25/hour) is TOO MUCH, I presume you won't find a lot of customers looking to spend $50 to change their own oil.

The only way I've seen for something like to this to work is that you get a bunch of guys with some means together, form a membership/private club, and rent a common workspace to wrench on your own cars. No public, and no rental of facilities to anyone else or all the bad stuff kicks in again. This is done more often than you might imagine in large cities where the car guys can't own a big garage at their home.

[nullset]

Some hackerspaces have usable auto bays. You can look at www.hackerspaces.org to see if there's one near you.

There are for-profit "tech shops" that are similar but on a for profit model.

It can work, if you're willing to put your time into it.

[DMCVegas]

So if people are complaining that $200 a day ($25/hour) is TOO MUCH, I presume you won't find a lot of customers looking to spend $50 to change their own oil.

The site's prices state that for oil changes only, you can get 30 minutes on a rack for only $10. That is something that I would find to be a fantastic deal given the fact that the last time a lube shop charged me for a blended synthetic oil change I paid $60, and my brother in law has to pay $90 @ Wal Mart for a full synthetic. A DIY full synthetic change on my truck costs me about $45 for oil and a filter, so another $10 for the lift rental and I'm still coming out ahead in price and WAY ahead in oil quality. Not to mention with the synthetic I wouldn't have to do it as often, and I can get a chassis lube done at the same time as the oil is draining. Now THAT is a fantastic deal I would take advantage of. Absolutely.

The $200 a day aspect though for a bay is what kills me. There are times that you're not going to be able to get all of the work done in a single day, especially for a DIY'er that's learning a new procedure. And when a vehicle is in a regular shop, you're only paying for the time that they focus on said vehicle. Granted now some shops do indeed go about billable hours in different ways. Like the one I used to go to in Vegas would only charge parts and minimal labor if any to replace a part that they were removing anyway (i.e. parts only fees if for the rear main seal if the clutch was being replaced, water hoses if the pump was being replaced, etc.). So if it's a few hours total to replace a Heater Core in a vehicle and it takes a couple of days, on repairs like that it could become cheaper to farm it out. Even the best garage has to sometimes send out for a part unexpectedly and put a customer's vehicle on hold.

If it was something like $100 a day to rent a garage, that I could handle. Otherwise I'd just do the work in my driveway or apartment's parking space.

[mluder]

To add to Robert's comment - Let's say you were going to take on a project that due to process might take several days. Like rebuilding your front suspension. Now, not including paint or other finishes, it might take a 3-4 days or more to get everything off, cleaned and replaced assuming you aren't working 8 hours a day on it. At $200 a day that's $800. Do two jobs like this and you could have bought your own lift (if you have the room to install it) which would serve you down the road in maintenance on all your cars...

Just a thought.

Cheers
Steven

[Kane]

I think you guys are losing perspective on who this type of business targets. It is not for the guys who already do their own work for free in their driveway. I think it's more for people like me that live in the middle of a city and has no where to work on their car. My options are to take it to a service center for $110 per hour in labor charges or do it myself for $200 a day at this type of place. So for 8 hours of labor, I could do it myself for $200 or pay $880 to DMCNW. Yes, it would be nice to have my own garage and work on it 24 hours a day for free, but given the options, this satisfies a particular need in the market.

Sometimes people in the suburbs don't think about the restrictions of city life and sometimes people who live in cities lose sight of what it is like to have a yard and a garage. :)

[orangecrrrush]

I did it with corvettes for 4 years. I built a huge business out of my heated garage. I rented dyno time at a local shop to tune cars. I got sick of it pretty quick. The reason is you can't make everyone happy. I prided myself on excellent customer service, buy returning cars in a timely manner, calling people after the work was done to see if everything was okay. I still had a few clients that I could not please. I would give them a dyno sheet with 760rwh.. and they would expect 800. Also, insurance and liability is going to be an issue. I could not get anyone to insure my biz out of my home garage. one final thought... Figure out how much business you will need to make a living. I would have to have a shop with 5 bays going all the time to make what I make with my day job.

Send me a PM and I will explain more. There are positives... the love and passion... the customers that do appreciate the work... etc...

Adam

[DMC1983]

All great feedback, gentlemen! It has given me a bit of perspective and I would like to keep taking steps in the right direction, but I am concerned about one thing.

The idea for making it a membership garage is fantastic! It would make sense to have a group of guys (and girls) who enjoy wrenching on their cars to have the option of just storing their car with the added benefit of being able to use in shop equipment for general preventative maintenance/major repairs. A place that is quiet. Maybe even add in some entertainment... sort of like a "man cave."

The other option was to take on a franchise opportunity, I have found a few places that offer this. Wouldnt be bad, but what's the turnover for me? Im in it to do something that I love, but I need to live too

[DMCMW Dave]

Im in it to do something that I love, but I need to live too

If this would not be "living", then don't start your own business.

[DMCMW Dave]

I think you guys are losing perspective on who this type of business targets. It is not for the guys who already do their own work for free in their driveway. I think it's more for people like me that live in the middle of a city and has no where to work on their car. :)

I also noticed that he was targeting independent mechanics, i.e. a guy who would rent the space by the day or week and work on his own customer cars. Then the model starts actually working assuming you get past the "who cleans up" etc. issues. This would not be entirely unlike shared office space businesses.

[mluder]

I also noticed that he was targeting independent mechanics, i.e. a guy who would rent the space by the day or week and work on his own customer cars. Then the model starts actually working assuming you get past the "who cleans up" etc. issues. This would not be entirely unlike shared office space businesses.

... Or like some barber shops and hair salons who rent their stations. They provide the infrastructure and the barbers/beauticians provide their own supplies.

I like the idea of a membership club to defray costs and liability. Like a woodworkers co-op. Everyone invests in the tools and the space and there's help available when and if you need it.

Cheers
Steve

[nullset]

There's a business like this in Alpharetta (30 miles north of Atlanta...an Atlanta suburb). http://www.e3storage.com/

It's not cheap, however.

--buddy

[DMCVegas]

There's a business like this in Alpharetta (30 miles north of Atlanta...an Atlanta suburb). http://www.e3storage.com/

It's not cheap, however.

--buddy

What's funny is I just clicked on that link and saw the Lotus and all those BMWs and realized that I don't think I would want to work on my car in a public setting like this. It's bad enough getting heckled by know-it-alls at gas stations, I don't need some mouth-breather telling me how to rebuild my Helicopter engine with refrigerator parts when I'm knee-deep in a repair, or causing a car to come crashing down and kills me because he wanted to sit in my car while I'm under it, or piss some moron off because I'm working by the hour and I don't want to talk to him because his cocaine jokes are actually costing me money.

The clubhouse idea is a nice one, but only if it was like-minded people who love odd-ball cars.

[DMCMW Dave]

For the really well-heeled in Minnesota. This is a condo complex of JUST GARAGES with no place to live. We've been there, about the coolest thing I've ever seen, and you can bet that the level of cars in the place is astonishing.

http://automotorplex.com/

[SS Spoiler]

Dave's right, there are some righteous man caves in that place. Cars and coffee meets there every month. The Minnesota boys invited Dave and Julee up for a tech session.

Paul Cerny #2691
Formerly Burnsville, MN
now Kalispell, MT