Videobob's Time Machine # 16 - For Adam Kontras in Hollywood

[videobob]

We just finished our 16th Time Machine for friend Adam Kontras in Hollywood!
Check out this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px15IXw_ORY

Anyone remember that BITCOIN Delorean that was for sale?
We used that one.
It was a black automatic but we made the shifter appear as though it were a manual.

We went out of our way to make this car as otherwise screen accurate as possible and we feel this is one of our best most detailed cars to date!
Adam flew in to Dallas and stayed with me at my house while we finished it up.
We went to the Dallas ComicCon together and met Christopher Lloyd who signed his visor for him.

Because we per-fabricate our parts ahead of time and put them on the shelf and get them ready, we were able to build this car in about 2 weeks!
We actually had the car for a month but we didn't get to it for a few weeks.
We really have this down to a science and an art now, myself and my team have this down pat!

Here are some photos of the car.

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10372527_461218837315240_9156929993093219822_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/v/t1.0-9/1383115_461219063981884_4618625229888365375_n.jpg? oh=d0a62d5c7d78070be381f4cf87a8a690&oe=5403E360
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/10325535_461218680648589_1640627874517549720_n.jpg
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10349008_461217700648687_3953536940468496905_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10255012_461217733982017_6324827545391454927_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10309647_460879767349147_5999742195801164814_n.jpg
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10152578_460879940682463_4616158988223149544_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/10363614_460879880682469_7671738438740179516_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10363662_460880024015788_2247715229685009885_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1.0-9/10296556_460880440682413_2737913198076036397_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10256899_461217827315341_2912527734718759350_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10336636_461217673982023_5573728640803521758_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10294503_461530737284050_5327058681699877540_n.jpg

Thanks for looking!
- Bob

[Dangermouse]

Bob,

when it was for sale, it was listed as an Auto. This pic makes it look like a manual:

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/10325535_461218680648589_1640627874517549720_n.jpg



Did you do a conversion (transmission type) or just use a stick-shift type gaitor?

[dmc6960]

Bob,
when it was for sale, it was listed as an Auto. This pic makes it look like a manual:
Did you do a conversion (transmission type) or just use a stick-shift type gaitor?


It was a black automatic but we made the shifter appear as though it were a manual.

:p

[BTTF-1]

Great job VB.

Thanks for sharing!

ED:mechbull::nana2::nana2::mechbull:

[Dangermouse]

F*%k :shhh:

Insert facepalm here .

[videobob]

We hadn't mounted the shifter ball yet because we were waiting on finding an original to order. Thanks.

[videobob]

BTW, credit for this shifter mod goes to Danny Botkin.
Adam had seen this done on one of Danny's cars and insisted that I do it to his.
With the ball mounted, it looks legit!

[Timebender]

Nice work Bob

[Timebender]

Btw, have you ever given thought to a non-destructive mod, or even a lightweight mod (or hybrid of the two)?

[Michael]

BTW, credit for this shifter mod goes to Danny Botkin.
Adam had seen this done on one of Danny's cars and insisted that I do it to his.
With the ball mounted, it looks legit!

That's clever. The best of both worlds.

[Nicholas R]

That's clever. The best of both worlds.

I was going to say the same thing! Having seen several time machines with typical auto shifters, I hope that this is a modification that happens to fix that look.

For whatever reason, I never care that much about the screen accuracy of the props as much as the screen accuracy of the base car. Not sure why...

[pezzonovante88]

For whatever reason, I never care that much about the screen accuracy of the props as much as the screen accuracy of the base car. Not sure why...

Same, so true Nicholas.

Also, VB, I've never noticed an exhaust system like that on a Time Machine. Is that common practice?

[videobob]

Same, so true Nicholas.

Also, VB, I've never noticed an exhaust system like that on a Time Machine. Is that common practice?

With the exception of custom stainless exhaust systems that can not be rerouted and must be sent out the back,
the screen used car was done similar to this.
The screen used car had the rear flux boxes mounted right where the tail pipes would exit and the exhaust basically
shot out the sides of the muffler, they turn down a bit but basically blast into the rear quarter panels.
Our experience with this was not good when we did it this way on my car, it heats up the panels and melted the LEDS on
my flux bands!
So we decided to route them out the side just a bit to they clear the panels.
Sometimes you have to make little adjustments like these to make the car usable for daily use.

[videobob]

More detailed photos are on my facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.457849370985520.1073741842.125714114199049&type=3

[mr2nut123]

Those thin exhaust hoses really let your builds down, the rest of them are pretty good. Purple clamps rather than black too, they are a key feature of the external wiring.

[pezzonovante88]

I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing a lot of automatic trans. owners to do that little stick-shift boot trick.

[DMCMW Dave]

I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing a lot of automatic trans. owners to do that little stick-shift boot trick.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'll bit it's a bit sketchy for normal use, as there are probably no detents between gear positions, i.e. it would be easy to knock into Park or Reverse while driving.

I'm assuming he's just using a manual linkage to move the shift cable, and all the Automatic lockouts are in the original shifter itself.

[videobob]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'll bit it's a bit sketchy for normal use, as there are probably no detents between gear positions, i.e. it would be easy to knock into Park or Reverse while driving.

I'm assuming he's just using a manual linkage to move the shift cable, and all the Automatic lockouts are in the original shifter itself.

There are "clicks" between each gear, but the lock is removed.
But the answer is that there is nothing to stop you from shifting between gears, into reverse or park, but the transmission won't really
let you do that, it would just bind up.
However I made that known to the owner who insisted we do the mod despite my recommendation not to, but it looks great.

[Dangermouse]

mmmm. I had assumed that it was just an aesthetic manual-shift boot installed over the original auto linkage, with a modified "stick" for installing a gear knob on.

[Nicholas R]

There are "clicks" between each gear, but the lock is removed.
But the answer is that there is nothing to stop you from shifting between gears, into reverse or park, but the transmission won't really
let you do that, it would just bind up.
However I made that known to the owner who insisted we do the mod despite my recommendation not to, but it looks great.

If its something more people start requesting, I'll bet it would be pretty easy to modify the shifter such that you can leave the outer lock sleeve in place, and make it so you have to pull up on the shift knob to shift between locking points. That or you could put a ring around the underside of the shift knob that you have to pull up on in order to shift it (put a spring between the knob and ring so that it pushes the sleeve back down). This is actually pretty common. My Opel has this kind of lock preventing you from shifting into reverse (it's a manual). Its just like lifting the DeLorean shifter to get to reverse except is just a ring under the knob. Here's a pic of the shifter (ignore the other parts).

http://www.opelgtparts.com/media/catalog/category/schalthebel-handbremshebel.jpg

[pezzonovante88]

mmmm. I had assumed that it was just an aesthetic manual-shift boot installed over the original auto linkage, with a modified "stick" for installing a gear knob on.

Twas also my assumption.

[videobob]

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/10364063_10152506177619203_3612233996757220165_n.j pg

The Time Machine is parked safely in it's new cradle in the mini-golf backyard of Adam Kontras in Hollywood California!!!

[Citizen]

Hey Bob, great job on another conversion.

I read through the thread, but didn't see the VIN. Could you provide it (for the record book, of course)?

Thanks.

Thomas

...

[videobob]

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/10320536_457849510985506_1804068367715425054_n.jpg

[videobob]

The buyer, Adam, made this video about his experience with me...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBKESzYhDMs

[videobob]

Getting the car shipped and parked...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZpKUMAvHWU

[videobob]

Already getting press!

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=10202883

[yellowmxwheels23]

Was talking to Adam earlier and he tried signing up to the forum but was denied. Is talk capped?

[Dangermouse]

There seems to have been quite a waiting time to get new accounts approved because of all the bots registering, but that's somewhat different from being denied. Never heard of that.

[alexwolf1216]

Make sure he sends the email to the email address in the general forums. I didnt read first and mine was denied too.

Alex

[AdamKontras]

I have remained quiet for over 3 months so as to not rock the boat and now finally need to post my experience with Videobob. Realize this is only the most recent issue, but most certainly the one that forced my hand. I have tried to come to a resolution (as you'll see in this entry) and have been threatened and badgered in a style I used to only read about on threads like this. I am stunned as a customer to be treated like this after spending $35,000 and even more stunned Videobob wouldn't simply agree to find and ship my property to me that he previously told me he "threw out".

I guess I should be ready for his onslaught but I honestly cannot fathom what the angle would be. I bought a car that came with over $2300 in extras and shipped it to Dallas to be modded. The seller provided a detailed list of those extras and when I went to Dallas to sign-off on the car and asked about them Bob told me they were trash and that he threw them out. He has since changed that story (as you will read) but still continues to bully me. So here I am.

Help.

http://www.4tvs.com/Journey/2014/entries/J1453-061714.html

[sdg3205]

Wow Adam.

I am so sorry your Delorean dream has been marred so badly.

Bob keeps a relatively low profile here and just pops up to advertise himself now and then, so most of us know little about him.

You did the right thing keeping a record. It clearly speaks volume about both yourself and bob on multiple levels.

I know you feel sick over this, and that's justified. Just remember - no one is dying and this forum and it's people will be here to support you in your ownership experience the best we can regardless of this unfortunate circumstance.

[AdamKontras]

Wow Adam.

I am so sorry your Delorean dream has been marred so badly.

Bob keeps a relatively low profile here and just pops up to advertise himself now and then, so most of us know little about him.

You did the right thing keeping a record. It clearly speaks volume about both yourself and bob on multiple levels.

I know you feel sick over this, and that's justified. Just remember - no one is dying and this forum and it's people will be here to support you in your ownership experience the best we can regardless of this unfortunate circumstance.

Thank you so much. It has indeed been a bit marred, however it's so easily resolved by simply shipping me my property I honestly do feel that it will come to a head very soon. I've done everything possible (other than sign documents without even being told what he has) to resolve this without going public, but I'm confident that this as well as my complaint with the Better Business Bureau will bring things to a head.

On an unrelated note - I'm pumped to finally be on this forum! I tried to register last month and they thought I was a bot! :-) I had some questions about tune-ups and I'm fairly certain without this forum I would never be able to even attempt it! Once I get the parts from Bob I will be diving in head first. :thumbup2:

[videobob]

I have been trying to reach Adam for days.
He sent me some message calling me a "thief", telling me I "stole" parts that were supposed to be in his car.
This all started when he ran the car out of gas and had trouble with it.
He called the previous owner who told him there was a bunch of extra parts in the car.
So then, without calling me to ask me about it, simply went off the handle and sent me a letter calling me a thief and how he is going to sue
me for trying to steal the extra fan belts and fuel filters that were in the car....
WTF?
First of all, this car was left by the driver on my street, unsigned for with no bill of laden, no receipt signed by me or my staff.
There was some stuff in the car, most of it was indeed trash.
There were some empty boxes that the new speakers and radio came in, worn out floor mats, some printed papers that had been wet and crumpled.
I told my staff to clean out the car and get it prepped for the build.
My wife and my workers girlfriend help clean up.
They piled this stuff in a box and put the trash aside for me to check, I did throw it out.
This stuff got put up in the loft and I didn't even know about it until today when I asked them about it.
I tired to call Adam about 10 times today.
He told me that he refuses to talk to me on the phone, will only talk in email because he plans to sue me if he doesn't get all he wants.
Then he tells me he will slander me with his website if I don't give him an itemized list of all the items and ship them to him at my expense.
First of all, I looked in this box at the stuff and there is NOT the long list of things that he is claiming, there are a few tune up parts in there, some old pulled parts, etc.
I offered to send him the entire box but he refuses to pay for the shipping.
Then he complained about a few of the parts on the car, I offered to replace anything and everything that he is unhappy with.
What more do you want dude?
I built his car on his budget, on his timeline and he was thrilled.
I picked him up at the airport and he stayed the weekend at my house.
I shuttled him around town, took him out to dinner, gave him gifts, etc.
He stayed at my house for the weekend, I cooked him steaks and we were the best of friends.
However, he would have these neurotic fits over the stupidest things sometimes, he would over react, just like he is right now!!!

Adam, I am telling you now just as I am telling everyone.
I am willing to give you absolutely everything you have asked for, all you have to do is call me.
That's it.
I will happily replace ANY part that you have an issue with.
I will happily ship you ANYTHING that was a part of the car, received with the car, that you believe is yours.
So what is the argument?
All you have to do is pick up the phone, or answer yours.
I want to resolve this issue with you but you have refused to cooperate.

[Michael]

I have remained quiet for over 3 months so as to not rock the boat and now finally need to post my experience with Videobob. Realize this is only the most recent issue, but most certainly the one that forced my hand. I have tried to come to a resolution (as you'll see in this entry) and have been threatened and badgered in a style I used to only read about on threads like this. I am stunned as a customer to be treated like this after spending $35,000 and even more stunned Videobob wouldn't simply agree to find and ship my property to me that he previously told me he "threw out".

I guess I should be ready for his onslaught but I honestly cannot fathom what the angle would be. I bought a car that came with over $2300 in extras and shipped it to Dallas to be modded. The seller provided a detailed list of those extras and when I went to Dallas to sign-off on the car and asked about them Bob told me they were trash and that he threw them out. He has since changed that story (as you will read) but still continues to bully me. So here I am.

Help.

http://www.4tvs.com/Journey/2014/entries/J1453-061714.html
Deal Lord that is really eye opening. Thanks for enlightening us. I have to say you showed tremendous restraint, and conducted yourself maturely and professionally....far more than I could have if I were in your shoes. As for VB, well that text exchange was so full of contradictions it was hard to sort them all out. I especially like the part of him accusing you of threatening him and extorting him....right after he threatened and extorted you. I swear I could have been reading a conversation between you and Ed Bernstein.

Now for you Bob, no matter what the "he said she said" part is...you showed yourself to be in extremely poor taste. That man was nothing short of polite and professional, you were John H. and Ed B. all rolled into one. I lost count of how many times you contradicted yourself not to mention how many times you threatened him and insulted him...All of which he ignored. Your attitude in this is more telling than any evidence( of which the op has plenty of btw).

[OverlandMan]

Thank you so much. It has indeed been a bit marred, however it's so easily resolved by simply shipping me my property I honestly do feel that it will come to a head very soon. I've done everything possible (other than sign documents without even being told what he has) to resolve this without going public, but I'm confident that this as well as my complaint with the Better Business Bureau will bring things to a head.

On an unrelated note - I'm pumped to finally be on this forum! I tried to register last month and they thought I was a bot! :-) I had some questions about tune-ups and I'm fairly certain without this forum I would never be able to even attempt it! Once I get the parts from Bob I will be diving in head first. :thumbup2:

Welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear about your issues. Hope you guys can get that squared-up.

This forum has been such a valuable tool for me in fixing things with the car myself as well as various interesting pieces of information. It has certainly made my ownership experience more fun.

[Jonathan]

I read some of the content in the links and wondered if anyone stopped to question whether this list of "extra parts" actually wasn't included from the Bitcoin seller guy when it got sent to Bob in Dallas?

Bob said these extras weren't included and maybe it is that simple? If Bob was asked about where the extra parts were, when the good ones weren't actually ever with the car, his response that "they were garbage and we threw them out" would make a lot of sense because when you look at what is listed other than that "upgrade" parts list, it does sound like a lot of crap. I have a few totes of similar items I kept from things coming off my car wondering if I would use them again, and most all of it is junk at the end of the day.

I don't know the Bitcoin guy nor Adam and I only got to chat to Bob briefly for the first time at DCS, but if Adam got into the DeLorean dream as quickly as his website write-up indicates, he might just be a little shocked at how expensive the hobby can be AND that even after all that money, these cars are still a lot of work to keep maintained. If one of the first experiences was to run out of gas, and then maybe add that to some fit and finish things you weren't expecting, it could be just that there was some overreacting?

Like I said, I don't really know anyone involved, but bad mouthing someone on the Internet pretty much never helps any of the parties. I might suggest trying your best to confirm with the Bitcoin seller if these items were sent with the car, and then quietly and cordially talk to each other when the world isn't listening to figure it out. If someone jumped the gun, give the person the chance to admit they overreacted and move on. It's happened to many on here when getting into this hobby and you weren't ready for "living the dream." If you've backed yourself into a corner, ask those around you to help you out and then start fresh from that point on.

[Kane]

California is a two-party consent state for recorded phone conversations. Texas is a one-party consent state. It is a gray area, but I would consider if you could record the phone conversations anyway.

There's a reason Bob has this reputation. He believe he wields so much mighty power that his mere suggestion that you not be included in an event will mean you get excluded. He does not have a monopoly on BTTF cast members. I get the feeling that they give endorsements to his work because they are not familiar enough with the details of the car to notice things he does that are wrong. Sure, Kevin Pike built the original, but is he going to remember where every bolt and bracket went after 30 years? Probably not.

I think you should proceed with a small claims case.

Bob can't put a lien on your car for work he did and didn't charge you for (and didn't appear on the invoice). It sure was nice of him to fix and repaint parts of your car, but if they were not on the bill, then you are not responsible for paying them.

The fact that he cooked for you doesn't mean that he gets to keep your property.

Bob never disputed the list of items when they were emailed to him before the car arrived. He still doesn't dispute anything on that list. I highly doubt they weren't there when the car showed up, because as a business owner, I would assume he would indicate that "Hey, there's a lot of things on that list that aren't here. Maybe you should double check with the seller so you don't think later that I kept them." But I guess Bob is too busy being on reality shows to worry about ethical business practices.

And saying "where are my parts?" does not constitute slander, Bob.

I know you know all this already, Adam, but I just wanted to make the point anyway. I hope you do contact an attorney or file the claim yourself.

I also wonder why you would be in that "My car looks great. Thanks, Bob" video that he uses to promote his work if you had problems with the car when you went to inspect it? You should also tell him to remove that video and to not use your likeness in any way. Unless you signed something saying he can use your name and likeness, I would tell him to take it all down (including the title of this thread).

And before Bob comes in to attack me using our recent conversations, let me tell you how those went. I got my conversion done by one of Bob's competitors. Bob contacted me after I made the thread here saying the car was back home and ready for event rentals. He criticized my pricing and said "I don't want you to cheat yourself out of money and at the same time we don't want to have unfair quotes that water down our market or cause discrepancies in quotes."

I responded with "I appreciate you reaching out and offering referrals. Feel free to refer to me any time you want, but don't tell me how to run my business. I'll set my prices on what my local market will support and not what some "industry standard rate" says I should charge. If the way I conduct my business activities "causes discrepancies in quotes", that is your issue to deal with. I know you make time machine conversions, but this isn't some mafia family where you can strong arm the competition. It's a free market."

Part of his response: "Aside from that, I work with Universal Studios and I am licensed with them to build props and pay them a fee for it. My relationships with Universal, Bob Gale, Kevin Pike and all the actors who are part of BTTF are valued. My beef's with people Gary and Bruce are personal and don't concern you. Both Bruce and Gary have been sent C&D from Universal and Bob Gale has called Gary out publically. There is a good reason why they are controversial. Neither of them have my endorsements, my relationships or my credentials, so they bash me to try to build themselves up."

I never mentioned past feuds or his competition or questioned his credentials.

Then he ends the email with this:

"I have been talking to a potential client in your area who wanted to rent my car for a 2 week stint and was willing to spend up to $10,000 on the project. I was about to refer this gig to you."

At this point, I reconsidered my past feelings about Bob and decided that business is business and that I should leave emotions out of this. I offered to start over and try this again. He wanted me to call him, but with the time zone difference and my schedule, I couldn't find a good time to call. I requested that he offer any advice over email. I haven't heard anything since.

The point being is that you are not alone in this, Adam. I am very glad that I didn't proceed further and get my business involved with Bob. I dodged a bullet, there. Hopefully you come out this with what you want and deserve.

[AdamKontras]

I read some of the content in the links and wondered if anyone stopped to question whether this list of "extra parts" actually wasn't included from the Bitcoin seller guy when it got sent to Bob in Dallas?

Bob said these extras weren't included and maybe it is that simple? If Bob was asked about where the extra parts were, when the good ones weren't actually ever with the car, his response that "they were garbage and we threw them out" would make a lot of sense because when you look at what is listed other than that "upgrade" parts list, it does sound like a lot of crap. I have a few totes of similar items I kept from things coming off my car wondering if I would use them again, and most all of it is junk at the end of the day.

I don't know the Bitcoin guy nor Adam and I only got to chat to Bob briefly for the first time at DCS, but if Adam got into the DeLorean dream as quickly as his website write-up indicates, he might just be a little shocked at how expensive the hobby can be AND that even after all that money, these cars are still a lot of work to keep maintained. If one of the first experiences was to run out of gas, and then maybe add that to some fit and finish things you weren't expecting, it could be just that there was some overreacting?

Like I said, I don't really know anyone involved, but bad mouthing someone on the Internet pretty much never helps any of the parties. I might suggest trying your best to confirm with the Bitcoin seller if these items were sent with the car, and then quietly and cordially talk to each other when the world isn't listening to figure it out. If someone jumped the gun, give the person the chance to admit they overreacted and move on. It's happened to many on here when getting into this hobby and you weren't ready for "living the dream." If you've backed yourself into a corner, ask those around you to help you out and then start fresh from that point on.

Jonathan, I'm not sure you read the entire entry. He has since said he found the parts but doesn't wish to itemize them without a list of demands as I've stated in the entry and on this thread. Fairly clear what's happening. Just want a list of the parts and a tracking number. This is all very easily resolved.

[AdamKontras]

And to Bob,

I've made it clear since the very first email (and mentioned it 6 more times since), I will no longer not talk to you on the phone. Yet, last night you called me over and over FIFTEEN times at 1 in the morning and left 6 voicemail messages demanding I do so. There is nothing to talk about. You have an incredibly detailed list from April 14th (and a more organized shorter one I sent you recently) and amazingly, a box of the items you said your crew just found. Compare those two things and let me know what you find.

When you ship me the items and provide a tracking number this will be resolved. In skimming the 24 emails you also sent overnight you mentioned you had no time to do this until the weekend. Yet you've spent 2 days and specifically all night harrassing me. Just look in box, Bob. Compare it to the list, Bob.

[Kane]

What's in the box? What's in the BOX?!?!?

[AdamKontras]

I also wonder why you would be in that "My car looks great. Thanks, Bob" video that he uses to promote his work if you had problems with the car when you went to inspect it? You should also tell him to remove that video and to not use your likeness in any way. Unless you signed something saying he can use your name and likeness, I would tell him to take it all down (including the title of this thread).

Anything I said about the car is the truth and I would never ask him to take down something I was in even though I never signed anything. I'm happy with most of the mod and the things I'm unhappy with I'm in the process of replacing and fixing. I just want the parts on the list he has finally admitted were not thrown out (It's over $2300 in parts, he runs a shop, he never threw them out - lol). This has to be the simplest issue with the most complicated resolution I have ever witnessed.

[videobob]

No Adam,
the issue is that you are wanting things that are NOT THERE.
Things that you have no proof were ever delivered to me, things I never got.
There are a few of these small items, but certainly not $2300 in items.
This is where there should be conversation.
You are EXTORTING me, that unless I give you what you THINK I owe you, things you were told by someone else exist,
that you will slander me, you threatened to file a police report for theft, you threatened to call my local media and to report
me to the BBB. You threatened to slander and liable me in your videos and on your website....and you come on forums like
this and call me a "thief".
All because you expect me to ship you a magical box of items you think will change your world.
I got news for you, the seller who sold you the car hosed you, it was a wrecked pile of crap that we had to do
tons of work to, work that we never even charged you for.
He must have forgotten about what was in the car because some extra belts and filters are not worth what you think they are.
He included the EMPTY BOXES to the radio and speakers and an attempt at some sort of an alarm that we had to remove and toss out.
I have tried to explain this to you over and over but you refuse to listen, you refuse to answer the phone or talk to me.
Sure, I get frustrated too, and after you test me a thousand times with your snarky attitude and carefully DELETE all of the shitty
texts and emails out of YOUR version of the story to MAKE ME LOOK BAD, I guess I do.

Since you refuse to speak with me in a civil way and you chose to make this public, I will have to deal with this in my own way I guess.
I have begged you to simply cooperate, to simply speak to me, but all you want to do is threaten me, slander me and do this here?
All I have said is that if you continue with these actions that I will no longer support you, will not offer you parts, will not offer you refferalls.
How is THAT being a BULLY?
YOU ARE THE BULLY!!!!!
You are the one going out in public and slandering me in an effort to get STUFF from me!!!
That is called EXTORTION!!!!
I already told you that I would send you anything that was in the car, but you wanted more.
You expect me to pay you what you THINK it is worth, you expect me to pay for the shipping, you expect me to give you FREE PARTS.
Guess what dude, your crazy.

[AdamKontras]

Bob, from your email:


"Here is the good news.
I found out today that when the car was brought in, some things were put into a box
and other things that were obviously trash were indeed thrown away.
I did not know this box existed until I asked my crew about it, it was put away when the shop
was cleaned to prepare for filming."

So again, please tell me which items from the list you now have instead of previous texts where you said:


"The items in your list did not come with the car, we do not have them"

Every time I stand up to you, more items seem to appear. Stop leaving threatening voicemails (which will absolutely be made public) about how you're going to drive to Los Angeles and "Deal with this yourself" and just make a list of the items you have. You are the one making this an online "war". I've given you chance after chance in private to deal with this and you were threatening and abusive. Finally filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau is not extortion, it's me protecting myself. Finally making this public is not extortion, it's me protecting myself. It's the same reason I spoke to the seller the weekend he was packing the car and I asked him to document everything and send it to both of us before you received the car. I was protecting myself from this exact situation. Please simply tell me what's in this box your crew "set aside" so we can end this...

...or continue to play this out in public by spending all your time calling me, leaving voicemails, writing incoherent emails and posting in this thread.

[videobob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Td8HWvSR6I

Here is a video where I call Adam and discuss one of his many neurotic freak out sessions...
He would text me 100 times per day, send hundreds of emails, phone calls, it was ridiculous.
Part of the problem was that I had sent him reference photos of the screen used car along with photos of my other cars,
all the while he keeps asking me to upgrade the things we are doing so that it looks like the screen used car, of course, on his budget and impossible timeline of 2 weeks.
I brought in extra crew to help pull it off at my own expense.
We fixed a bunch of bad fiberglass on the car that was never mentioned by the seller, did it for FREE by the way.
I let this dude stay with me at my house for almost a week where he leached off of me while I paid for everything.... I took him to the Dallas ComicCon too.

So he sends me this long email about how "parts are popping off".
One of the rubber brackets on the bands had chipped, a small 1/2 piece had broken off, then when he pulled on another one he broke it off.
So I told him I would send him any parts that he needed in replacement and instruct him how to do it.
Not sure how this happened, but after building 16 of these cars we don't usually have this problem.
Bottom line is that any little thing that happens that he doesn't agree with he totally freaks out.

Adam is an unemployed, failed actor who lives off of his wealthy wife's parents, who he borrowed the money from so he could start this "business" of renting this car out.
He holds mocked up charity events which are simply vehicles for him to try to get fame and attention.
All that is fine, I could care less, but the point is that this guy moves from person to person, topic to topic, to make himself some sort of victim
so he has something to "blog" about in a desperate attempt to get attention for himself.

I tried to call him and he refuses to talk to me, as he has said.
I asked him for his address today so I could ship him some stuff and he refused to give it to me.
He wants me to give him an itemized list that corresponds with the list he has form the previous seller and wants to approve it first...
then what?

It is obvious that this guy doesn't really care about this "stuff", if he did he would let me ship it to him.
He just wants to ride my coat tails to try to get some attention.
clap clap clap
Congratulations Adam, your famous.

I have tried in vein to resolve this without making it public, he is the one who brought this here, he is the one attacking me, he is making unreasonable demands
and refuses to talk with me.
I am not going to waste another second on this until he calls me, apologizes for this debacle and works it out with me.
We will record the conversation and I am happy to share it with the public.
I have absolutely nothing to hide.

[AdamKontras]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Td8HWvSR6I

Here is a video where I call Adam and discuss one of his many neurotic freak out sessions...
He would text me 100 times per day, send hundreds of emails, phone calls, it was ridiculous.
Part of the problem was that I had sent him reference photos of the screen used car along with photos of my other cars,
all the while he keeps asking me to upgrade the things we are doing so that it looks like the screen used car, of course, on his budget and impossible timeline of 2 weeks.
I brought in extra crew to help pull it off at my own expense.
We fixed a bunch of bad fiberglass on the car that was never mentioned by the seller, did it for FREE by the way.
I let this dude stay with me at my house for almost a week where he leached off of me while I paid for everything.... I took him to the Dallas ComicCon too.

So he sends me this long email about how "parts are popping off".
One of the rubber brackets on the bands had chipped, a small 1/2 piece had broken off, then when he pulled on another one he broke it off.
So I told him I would send him any parts that he needed in replacement and instruct him how to do it.
Not sure how this happened, but after building 16 of these cars we don't usually have this problem.
Bottom line is that any little thing that happens that he doesn't agree with he totally freaks out.

Adam is an unemployed, failed actor who lives off of his wealthy wife's parents, who he borrowed the money from so he could start this "business" of renting this car out.
He holds mocked up charity events which are simply vehicles for him to try to get fame and attention.
All that is fine, I could care less, but the point is that this guy moves from person to person, topic to topic, to make himself some sort of victim
so he has something to "blog" about in a desperate attempt to get attention for himself.

I tried to call him and he refuses to talk to me, as he has said.
I asked him for his address today so I could ship him some stuff and he refused to give it to me.
He wants me to give him an itemized list that corresponds with the list he has form the previous seller and wants to approve it first...
then what?

It is obvious that this guy doesn't really care about this "stuff", if he did he would let me ship it to him.
He just wants to ride my coat tails to try to get some attention.
clap clap clap
Congratulations Adam, your famous.

I have tried in vein to resolve this without making it public, he is the one who brought this here, he is the one attacking me, he is making unreasonable demands
and refuses to talk with me.
I am not going to waste another second on this until he calls me, apologizes for this debacle and works it out with me.
We will record the conversation and I am happy to share it with the public.
I have absolutely nothing to hide.

Bob,

I really just want a list of the items you have so we can cross reference it with the list you were provided before you got the car. You ignoring that extremely simple request is rather telling.

Adam

[Kane]

Now who is slandering, Bob? Any demands he had had before or work you did for free does not absolve you from keeping his parts. Give him a list of what's in the box. Then he will know what is missing. Why should he pay for you to ship a box only for him to open it up and then find out what is missing.


And as far as always being a victim, you would certainly be an expert on that.


I really hope he takes you to court and people finally know how horrible your business practices are. Maybe that will drive you out of pretending to be the gatekeeper of the time machine event market.

[AdamKontras]

By the way, this video is from June 2nd and completely about the issues with the modification (which are resolved). I have never mentioned the issues with the modification, I have never made issues with the modification public, nor does my complaint with the Better Business Bureau have anything to do with the modification. I'm not sure anyone has any idea why you're posting this, but it does indeed keep you from listing the items of mine that you found yesterday so we can cross-reference them with the list you were emailed before you received the car. So there is that.

[AdamKontras]

So here's an organized documentation of the last 24 hours of harassment.

http://www.4tvs.com/Journey/2014/entries/J1454-061814.html

And if you don't want to read through all of that, here's the voicemail that was meant to intimidate me and has worked quite well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_eSl45HRX8

Bob, for the umpteenth time. Please just tell me the list of parts you "found" and we will cross reference them with the original list and move forward. If you did indeed throw the items out as you told me before, let's come to an agreement on how best to deal with that. Remember, I am a customer simply asking for what he paid for. I haven't the slightest idea why you're calling me a "psycho" or threatening me by screaming into my phone:


"You're gonna take that down and you're gonna take it down now. Or I swear to fucking God I will get in my car and drive straight to LA and deal with this myself."

Of course I cannot take these things down until I receive my property, Bob. This is the only protection I have right now.

[Kane]

And before the mods come in here and say that this should be dealt with through PMs, I think it is important that this is worked out for everyone to see. I think there has been enough hiding behind youtube videos and phantom copies of emails. This needs to be open for the community to comment.

So please don't lock the thread and tell them to take it to PMs. :)

[videobob]

Long before you made any of this public, I told you I would ship you whatever stuff we have, just give me a call.
You refused.
I then offered to just ship you what we had.
You refused.
Only after you put up your blog and then go on here to slander me did I lose my temper.
I told you that I was busy on the set of my TV show all week.
I was up till 5am trying to negotiate with you.
I dont have the time to sift through that box of trash and cross reference your made up list of parts.
I am running a full shop and me and my entire crew are shooting a TV show.
Those items were not my responsibility, the seller should have sent them to you or you should have inquirer about them and took them when you were at my shop.

I will refer the standard posted sign on the shop wall that says,
"We are not responsible for items left in vehicles, fire, theft or loss.
Items left over 30 days will be discarded or become shop property.
Storage fees will apply for items left over 30 days."

You could have and should have inquired about these items and taken them when you were freeloading off me for the weekend. Sorry.
They are here if you want to come get them or if you pay to ship them.
I am not refusing them to you, it is yours if you want it.
Otherwise,
I'm done with you.

[AdamKontras]

Long before you made any of this public, I told you I would ship you whatever stuff we have, just give me a call.
You refused.

Not true, everything you said was documented and is now public.


I then offered to just ship you what we had.
You refused.

Not true, you demanded I sign a document that I was satisfied before even telling me what you had.


Only after you put up your blog and then go on here to slander me did I lose my temper.

Asking for you to tell me which parts you have is not slander, nor is posting your threatening emails to me. It's simply holding you accountable for your actions.


I told you that I was busy on the set of my TV show all week.

Has nothing to do with this.


I was up till 5am trying to negotiate with you.

There's nothing to negotiate. "What parts do you have?" is a question. We haven't even gotten to the negotiating part concerning the parts that you "threw away".


I dont have the time to sift through that box of trash and cross reference your made up list of parts.

You don't have time? It's a list of 30 small items. You've spent hours harassing me, on the phone, through text, emails, this thread - uploading an hour long video of a conversation that has nothing to do with this. Don't you realize everyone here can see that you do indeed have the time, you just want to hide what you still have?


I am running a full shop and me and my entire crew are shooting a TV show.

Has nothing to do with this.


Those items were not my responsibility, the seller should have sent them to you or you should have inquirer about them and took them when you were at my shop.

I did inquire about them in Dallas. Twice. Both times you said they were trash and you threw them out. Remember Bob? You actually already admitted to that. Gotta keep your stories straight.


I will refer the standard posted sign on the shop wall that says,
"We are not responsible for items left in vehicles, fire, theft or loss.
Items left over 30 days will be discarded or become shop property.
Storage fees will apply for items left over 30 days."

I cannot wait until you use that as a defense in small claims court.


You could have and should have inquired about these items and taken them when you were freeloading off me for the weekend. Sorry.

I did inquire about them, twice, and you said they were thrown out. Not sure what our personal arrangement has to do with it. That's like me bringing up that I paid $15 for parking at the Dallas ComicCon. What on earth does that have to do with anything?


They are here if you want to come get them or if you pay to ship them.
I am not refusing them to you, it is yours if you want it.

Oh, awesome! The items ARE there! Wonderful. If you could simply list them I will happily send you an address to ship them to. Gee, I wish you would've said that when I asked about this two days ago. Think of all the time we could've saved.


Otherwise,
I'm done with you.

I don't think you are.

[Kane]

"We are not responsible for items left in vehicles, fire, theft or loss.
Items left over 30 days will be discarded or become shop property.
Storage fees will apply for items left over 30 days."

How do you charge storage fees for items that are thrown out or become shop property after 30 days? You take ownership rights and still charge the customer with storage fees?

This will be really simple for a court to figure out. Why not just tell the court your side, Bob, and see what they say? If you have done nothing wrong, then the court will agree with you and you will win.

[DeLorean03]

And before the mods come in here and say that this should be dealt with through PMs, I think it is important that this is worked out for everyone to see. I think there has been enough hiding behind youtube videos and phantom copies of emails. This needs to be open for the community to comment.

So please don't lock the thread and tell them to take it to PMs. :)

I agree. I have been watching this thread since about 7:00am EST. Didn't watch it while at work, but came home and saw Michael's post and onward since then, and I am leaving this thread open - for now - as long as it doesn't degenerate into an all out swearing/shouting match.

There's a difference between "confrontations playing out in public" and airing out dirty laundry. More and more, this forum is becoming a haven for new owners and for discussion that used to happen "behind closed doors" metaphorically speaking. Threads like this need to play out - as long as it remains civil and constructive.

As for how the mods do things, don't worry, we got this. You just sit back and enjoy the forums ;).

The admins remain neutral on this issue unfolding on the forums. No sides are being taken, and the only way this thread will be locked or "disappears" is by request of Tamir - the forum owner. So, no mob mentality - let's let this play out.

[NightFlyer]

WOW!!!

As someone who has put 7 new owners together with their cars in the last 2-3 months, ALL of which have been completely satisfied with the assessments/recommendations that I performed for them, there's one rule that I constantly stress over and over again that was not followed here, but would have prevented this entire situation from evolving as it did had it only been followed.

The moral of this story, boys and girls, is that when purchasing any DeLorean, either take the time and effort to personally inspect it yourself, or have someone knowledgeable do so for you.

It's that simple. And there's NEVER an exception.

Why on earth someone would have purchased the Bitcoin car without inspecting it first, or having someone knowledgeable do so for them, is quite simply beyond me. Two of the new owners I assisted in purchasing their cars were actually interested in the Bitcoin car, however, because of things that I noticed from the pictures alone, I instructed my guys to pass on it, and this entire fiasco appears to have provided validity to some of my concerns with that car. I'm not saying that the Bitcoin car wasn't a nice car, only that I believe that it wasn't as nice as the seller was promoting it to be, nor was it actually worth the money that the seller wanted for it.

In any case, had an inspection been done prior to the sale of the car, the buyer would have known exactly what parts were being sold with the car. But as the seller is now 'out of the picture,' what we're left with is a he said, he said war where neither side is actually able to prove their case beyond a preponderance of the evidence, even if you're able to locate and force the Bitcoin seller into the dispute, as he could very well lie after-the-fact (not saying that he necessarily would, only that there's no way of definitively proving anything here with empirical evidence).

So, lesson be learned boys and girls - ALWAYS inspect your intended purchase prior to purchasing (or have someone who knows what they're looking at do so for you - there are many on this forum, including myself, who are more than willing to help out in this regard)...

[AdamKontras]

WOW!!!

As someone who has put 7 new owners together with their cars in the last 2-3 months, ALL of which have been completely satisfied with the assessments/recommendations that I performed for them, there's one rule that I constantly stress over and over again that was not followed here, but would have prevented this entire situation from evolving as it did had it only been followed.

The moral of this story, boys and girls, is that when purchasing any DeLorean, either take the time and effort to personally inspect it yourself, or have someone knowledgeable do so for you.

It's that simple. And there's NEVER an exception.

Why on earth someone would have purchased the Bitcoin car without inspecting it first, or having someone knowledgeable do so for them, is quite simply beyond me. Two of the new owners I assisted in purchasing their cars were actually interested in the Bitcoin car, however, because of things that I noticed from the pictures alone, I instructed my guys to pass on it, and this entire fiasco appears to have provided validity to some of my concerns with that car. I'm not saying that the Bitcoin car wasn't a nice car, only that I believe that it wasn't as nice as the seller was promoting to be, nor was it actually worth the money that the seller wanted for it.

In any case, had an inspection been done prior to the sale of the car, the buyer would have known exactly what parts were being sold with the car. But as the seller is now 'out of the picture,' what we're left with is a he said, he said war where neither side is actually able to prove their case beyond a preponderance of the evidence, even if you're able to locate and force the Bitcoin seller into the dispute, as he could very well lie after-the-fact (not saying that he necessarily would, only that there's no way of definitively proving anything here with empirical evidence).

So, lesson be learned boys and girls - ALWAYS inspect your intended purchase prior to purchasing (or have someone who knows what they're looking at do so for you - there are many on this forum, including myself, who are more than willing to help out in this regard)...

The seller is out of the picture? I just spoke to the seller yesterday. ?!??! There's nothing wrong with the car itself, what on earth are you talking about? The car purchase was the best part of my entire experience. I spoke with the owner all weekend (while he packed the car in April) as he detailed everything about the car and provided both me and Bob with tons of information. In fact, take a look at the entry I linked to. It's about as detailed as it gets and Bob has even finally admitted he received the parts. So, where on earth are you coming from about the seller? Why has that poor bastard been dragged into this?

(Man Bob, you need to give your plants a bit more information before you direct them.)

[Michael]

The seller is out of the picture? I just spoke to the seller yesterday. ?!??! There's nothing wrong with the car itself, what on earth are you talking about? The car purchase was the best part of my entire experience. I spoke with the owner all weekend as he detailed everything about the car and provided both me and Bob with tons of information. In fact, take a look at the entry I linked to. It's about as detailed as it gets and Bob has even finally admitted he received the parts. So, where on earth are you coming from about the seller? Why has that poor bastard been dragged into this?

(Man Bob, you need to give your plants a bit more information before you direct them.)

Josh is NO PLANT. If you had spent any time here you would know that. Don't make assumptions simply because you don't like one persons' legal opinion.

[NightFlyer]

As to what qualifies as being 'junk,' and deserving to be thrown out vs retained, I'll lead off with the old adage that one man's trash is another man's treasure.

Here's but a few examples - what would you do with them if you ran a shop:

Plastic header bottle
Original belts
Original coolant hoses
Original bolt in valve stems
Ducellier alternator
Original fan fail
Etc

Many would consider these kinds of parts to be 'junk,' and would simply toss them. However, to me, and others like me (the concours crowd), they're like gold, and to just throw them out is an act of blasphemy!

The point being, to arbitrarily dispose of any part from a vintage/collector automobile is just not a wise business practice IMHO. Let the owner decide that which is trash and that which he wishes to retain. Common sensical no-brainer IMHO...

[AdamKontras]

OK, it seems as can be the case in threads that people skip all the links to information and only read the threads, so I'll make this simple:

I bought a car in Memphis that came with a ton of extras. The weekend that the seller Greg was packing the car to be shipped to Dallas (en route to LA) we spoke often. He gave me measurements for my carport, told me all the things he was including, and in fact told me where in the car he was shipping these items. It was so extensive I asked him (though he didn't have to) to write out a detailed list of every item and their location for both Bob and me and email that. He did. What possible motivation would this seller have after I already purchased the car to write up a "fake" list with "fake" locations where he put empty boxes KNOWING Bob was going to receive the list AND the car the NEXT DAY?? Bob received the email, and the car and said nothing! If there was some discrepancy, wouldn't you think Bob would MENTION IT TO ME? Knowing I would be asking about the parts?!?!

And as I've stated, I did mention it to him when I got to Dallas and he said it was "all trash" and it was "thrown out". And he has continued to say that he THREW MY PROPERTY AWAY. I don't believe him. Why don't I believe him? Because when he was pressed about this he admitted there were indeed some parts but only a couple hundred bucks worth. Then he stated that NOTHING arrived with the car. Then he stated that in fact he JUST found out his crew set aside the parts but never told him! All of this is documented in his texts and emails. When asked for a full inventory of these parts he refuses unless I sign a document stating I'm satisfied with everything BEFOREHAND?

As a customer, what would you do?

[AdamKontras]

Josh is NO PLANT. If you had spent any time here you would know that. Don't make assumptions simply because you don't like one persons' legal opinion.

Michael, he's blaming the SELLER. He already admitted his crew put the parts in a box and never told him!!!! He's changing his story every other email. !?!??! How on earth can you blame the seller? Just READ BOB'S COMMENTS.

[AdamKontras]

As to what qualifies as being 'junk,' and deserving to be thrown out vs retained, I'll lead off with the old adage that one man's trash is another man's treasure.

Here's but a few examples - what would you do with them if you ran a shop:

Plastic header bottle
Original belts
Original coolant hoses
Original bolt in valve stems
Ducellier alternator
Original fan fail
Etc

Many would consider these kinds of parts to be 'junk,' and would simply toss them. However, to me, and others like me (the concours crowd), they're like gold, and to just throw them out is an act of blasphemy!

The point being, to arbitrarily dispose of any part from a vintage/collector automobile is just not a wise business practice IMHO. Let the owner decide that which is trash and that which he wishes to retain. Common sensical no-brainer IMHO...


I agree with you 1000% - which is why I'm asking for the parts Bob told me he threw away. I didn't believe him in Dallas, I don't believe him now and in fact he has since changed his story. To refresh your memory, these two links have the ENTIRE story:

http://www.4tvs.com/Journey/2014/entries/J1453-061714.html

http://www.4tvs.com/Journey/2014/entries/J1454-061814.html

[Rich_NYS]

(Man Bob, you need to give your plants a bit more information before you direct them.)

LOL.....I doubt Josh would be any kind of plant for anyone.

[AdamKontras]

LOL.....I doubt Josh would be any kind of plant for anyone.

Josh clearly wasn't a plant he simply didn't have all the information. Once I PM'd him the info he reposted and clearly understood the situation better. His original post was so overwhelmingly devoid of the facts I assumed him for a plant. Absolutely my bad.

[NightFlyer]

The seller is out of the picture? I just spoke to the seller yesterday. ?!??! There's nothing wrong with the car itself, what on earth are you talking about? The car purchase was the best part of my entire experience. I spoke with the owner all weekend (while he packed the car in April) as he detailed everything about the car and provided both me and Bob with tons of information. In fact, take a look at the entry I linked to. It's about as detailed as it gets and Bob has even finally admitted he received the parts. So, where on earth are you coming from about the seller? Why has that poor bastard been dragged into this?

(Man Bob, you need to give your plants a bit more information before you direct them.)

I can assure you I'm no Bob plant (thank you Michael and Rich), nor am I necessarily a fan of Bob, his work, or his business practices. I simply try to be an independent objective voice that assists others in seeing clarity through adversarial situations such as this.

I admittedly didn't review either your outside blog, or any of the videos posted by either yourself or Bob - quite frankly I'm not interested in any of that crap. I'm only going off that which was stated here on the forum, and in case you don't realize it, Bob has asserted to not having received hardly any extra parts with your car upon delivery, and that which he did receive was in his estimation 'junk,' and was thrown out at his explicit direction. In regards to Bob's judgment call over the disposition over that which was received with your car upon delivery, see my post above, as I do believe that was a rather poor/unprofessional call in and of itself.

But, the fact remains that Bob is accusing the Bitcoin seller of being a liar, and you are accusing Bob of being a liar. That's great that you're still in contact with the Bitcoin seller, and having him as a witness will definitely assist you in any litigation that you chose to pursue against Bob.

However, unless you personally saw and inspected the extra parts with your own eyes, or had an independent third party that knew what they were looking at do so for you, you're merely relying upon the Bitcoin seller's word here (just as any judge or jury would also have to do), who very well could be lying, because he has his own financial interests to consider here. Bob stated that there were no parts listed on the shipping manifest, which if true, again limits this entire case to a battle of he said, he said, he said. No matter how you look at it, it's a mess because, quite frankly (and no disrespect intended here - just being brutally honest), you weren't a very diligent purchaser.

Someone is obviously lying here - that much is clear. But there's NO empirical evidence to support anyone's claimed version of events as they occurred. Can you post photos of the actual parts at issue here? Why were they not listed on the shipping manifest?

Again, this would have all been avoided had you actually inspected that which you purchased before purchasing it, and that is the lesson that others should take away from your experience and learn from.

[AdamKontras]

I can assure you and I'm no Bob plant (thank you Michael), nor am I necessarily a fan of Bob, his work, or his business practices. I simply try to be an independent objective voice that assists others in seeing clarity through adversarial situations such as this.

I admittedly didn't review either your outside blog, or any of the videos posted by either yourself or Bob - quite frankly I'm not interested in any of that crap. I'm only going off that which was stated here on the forum, and in case you don't realize it, Bob has asserted to not having received hardly any extra parts with your car upon delivery, and that which he did receive was in his estimation 'junk,' and was thrown out at his explicit direction. In regards to Bob's judgment call over the disposition over that which was received with your car upon delivery, see my post above, as I do believe that was a rather poor/unprofessional call in and of itself.

But, the fact remains that Bob is accusing the Bitcoin seller of being a liar, and you are accusing Bob of being liar. That's great that you're still in contact with the Bitcoin seller, and having him as a witness will definitely assist you in any litigation that you chose to pursue against Bob.

However, unless you personally saw and inspected the extra parts with your own eyes, or had an independent third party that knew what they were looking at do so for you, you're merely relying upon the Bitcoin seller's word here (just as any judge or jury would also have to do), who very well could be lying, because he has his own financial interests to consider here. Bob stated that there were no parts listed on the shipping manifest, which if true, again limits this entire case to a battle of he said, he said, he said. No matter how you look at it, it's a mess because, quite frankly (and no disrespect intended here - just being brutally honest), you weren't a very diligent purchaser.

Someone is obviously lying here - that much is clear. But there's NO empirical evidence to support anyone's claimed version of events as they occurred. Can you post photos of the actual parts at issue here? Why were they not listed on the shipping manifest?

Again, this would have all been avoided had you actually inspected that which you purchased before purchasing it, and that is the lesson that others should take away from your experience and learn from.

If you won't even read what is posted in the entries, there's nothing to comment on. Bob changed his story three times. He now actually "found" a box he never knew about that his crew had put aside and never told him about, yet he won't divulge what is there. This has nothing to do with the seller. But again if you don't want to read the particulars of the story changes I understand. Bob often posts random videos (that have NOTHING to do with the situation) to make people skim the stuff that matters. It's a brilliant tactic. Thankfully, the police and the better business bureau do not fall for that. I am in contact with the seller and this will be resolved.

[AdamKontras]

However, unless you personally saw and inspected the extra parts with your own eyes, or had an independent third party that knew what they were looking at do so for you, you're merely relying upon the Bitcoin seller's word here (just as any judge or jury would also have to do), who very well could be lying, because he has his own financial interests to consider here. Bob stated that there were no parts listed on the shipping manifest, which if true, again limits this entire case to a battle of he said, he said, he said. No matter how you look at it, it's a mess because, quite frankly (and no disrespect intended here - just being brutally honest), you weren't a very diligent purchaser.


BOB ADMITTED HE HAD ITEMS WORTH ONLY A "COUPLE HUNDRED BUCKS" and THREW THEM AWAY. These are not my words brother, they are HIS. You keep thinking he has consistently said the items weren't there. He hasn't! He has admitted he has them! You do not have all the information, so please let those that actually have read the emails discuss the matter. He has ALREADY ADMITTED that the items were only worth a "Couple hundred bucks". !!?!?! Can you imagine if someone threw away your property, admitted to it - and then their defense was that is was only a couple hundred bucks!?!?!?

[NightFlyer]

BOB ADMITTED HE HAD ITEMS WORTH ONLY A "COUPLE HUNDRED BUCKS" and THREW THEM AWAY. These are not my words brother, they are HIS. You keep thinking he has consistently said the items weren't there. He hasn't! He has admitted he has them! You do not have all the information, so please let those that actually have read the emails discuss the matter. He has ALREADY ADMITTED that the items were only worth a "Couple hundred bucks". !!?!?! Can you imagine if someone threw away your property, admitted to it - and then their defense was that is was only a couple hundred bucks!?!?!?

Unless Bob said these things after being given a sworn oath (or he's willing to actually admit to some of it under a sworn oath), the evidentiary value of it is only good as to proving Bob's character, of which, there may be enough evidence of contradiction/etc that he isn't able to reasonably explain away in front of a judge/jury, so that it actually leads the trier of fact to conclude that Bob is indeed the one who's lying. That very well could be the case here. But unless you have certifiable original unaltered documents of the texts/chats/conversions/communications/etc, the admissibility of such evidence in a court of law is going to be questionable at best, which is why I don't even bother looking at or considering any of it.

It's not that I'm calling you a liar or a manipulator/fabricator of evidence, as you appear to have legitimate grievances here. I'm only saying that the evidence upon which you're relying to support your claim isn't as strong as you appear to believe it is, unless of course you can obtain judicial certifications as to their unaltered originality and veracity/verifiability.

After being in the profession for a while, I can tell you that it's far easier to secure a favorable verdict when you have actual empirical evidence to support your claim, instead of having to rely upon the effective discrediting of your adversary.

Thus, once again, the lesson to be learned here by others is to be diligent in your purchases and always personally inspect/document them before making them, or have an independent third party who knows what they're looking at do so for you. That way, you don't need to rely upon unsupported contradictions and the like to discredit your opponent in order to win your case, as you'll actually have irrefutable empirical evidence supporting your claims, although usually when you have such evidence, you don't find yourself facing such situations. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Get it yet?

[Gary Weaver II]

Having personally been on the receiving end of many VB attacks, both publicly and privately - this voicemail even spooked me a little.

I know we've seen many threads on this board where Bob rants and raves with other Time Machine Builders or board members, but this is something completely new and unsettling.

Most of the time Bob is busy ranting about how all his "competition" is out to get him and we're making this stuff up when we have tried to bring it to light in this forum.

I can now see these attacks and tactics are not just limited to his perceived "competition", but his paying clients as well.

Frankly, it's frightening as hell.

Gary

P.S. I can't help but ask. Where is the original working Craig radio?


So here's an organized documentation of the last 24 hours of harassment.

http://www.4tvs.com/Journey/2014/entries/J1454-061814.html

And if you don't want to read through all of that, here's the voicemail that was meant to intimidate me and has worked quite well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_eSl45HRX8

Bob, for the umpteenth time. Please just tell me the list of parts you "found" and we will cross reference them with the original list and move forward. If you did indeed throw the items out as you told me before, let's come to an agreement on how best to deal with that. Remember, I am a customer simply asking for what he paid for. I haven't the slightest idea why you're calling me a "psycho" or threatening me by screaming into my phone:


"You're gonna take that down and you're gonna take it down now. Or I swear to fucking God I will get in my car and drive straight to LA and deal with this myself."

Of course I cannot take these things down until I receive my property, Bob. This is the only protection I have right now.

[Kane]

Nightflyer, if the seller didn't have those items there in the first place, Bob would have just said "What are you talking about? There were no parts in there." Adam had the seller send the list of items before Bob even got the car. If the car showed up without them, the ethical business owner would say to Adam "Hey, you might want to talk to the seller because none of those things from the list are in here."

Bob only said the items were never there after he had changed his story a couple times. Then he changed the story a few more times after that.

I don't think the seller is to blame here. Yes, there is no way to prove the items were there when Bob got the car, but Bob has never stuck to the story of "they were never there". If he has a box of stuff but threw away the junk, then the box of stuff was not junk. Either way, none of whatever is in the box or what he threw away belongs to Bob.

[AdamKontras]

This will be for a court to decide no matter what, but please review this:

The seller already had my money. He painstakingly made this list and sent it to Bob BEFORE Bob received the car knowing that Bob would see the car and the parts the FOLLOWING DAY:

****

The DeLorean has been loaded on a truck on its way to TX. I'd like to share the basics of what's in the car and where:

Storage Compartment Behind Drivers Seat:
spare belts
couple of jumper wires
original RPM relay as backup...
Outside of compartment: fire extinguisher and sun shades

Rear Shelf:
Box containing original stereo and speakers
Custom rear wall, auxiliary circuit behind that
Bass tubes

Passenger floorwell:
This was dumb; going through shop and storage, I found one more thing last night, the panel that covers the fuel accumulator and fuel filter... I left it off to watch and ensure no leaks after I replaced those... but it got put up, out of sight, and I forgot about it. It slides into place with the clips mounted on it, and the screws for this are located in the ash tray.

Glovebox:
My reproduction owners' manual
printout of cross ref sheet
printout of standard fuse and relay map
maybe my old insurance card (no longer valid as of today)
A ton of keys. The worst looking dull grey one is what I received with the car. I did a bunch of attempts at getting a good key match before finding out my ignition key code and getting the new door locks. Some work great, some don't work at all, and everything in between. A couple of short keys are included: those are for the original door locks, because this VIN was a two-key system car.

Trunk:
All the other stuff listed on the website, minus the original gas cap... I'm getting afraid that this was lost during my last house move. :-( I'm looking at my current house move possibly happening in May, so I'll be seeing every inch of my shop and other storage spots; if I find it, I'll ship it.
Full Workshop manual and Parts manual
Wiring diagrams... laminated original style, a full color one, subsystem ones in color
Tons of printed procedures, most of which are ones I have completed, some are for the included parts
Some original "junk" parts that might serve as backups, like the original RPM relay does, or could serve for someone who wants a concourse car... i.e. breakers, relays, etc..
A bunch of receipts
The good floor carpets (I have no-name generics on the floors)
A Ford Probe window felt strip. I did the mod for the passenger side a few years back when re-channelling the window motor drive, but the driver side hadn't messed with me since I obtained the felt strips, so I haven't had that door panel off to do the mod... The instructions are printed among the ton of docs included, or available at the DMCNews Technical section.

Videobob, if you have questions, drop me a message; I'll be glad to answer anything I can. I probably have stuff included I haven't mentioned, and I might even have miscellaneous Toyota or BMW stuff in there accidentally... if I saw little brackets and stuff I didn't recognize, I erred on caution and included it.

Thanks,
--Greg

***
Again, he already had the sale and sent this to Bob the DAY BEFORE he received the car and Bob never mentioned ANYTHING about that list being inaccurate. You either believe Greg is lying, or you review Bob's reactions to me asking for my parts:


1) When I arrived in Dallas and asked about those parts Bob said they were "Trash" and they were "thrown out". When I asked a 2nd time he admitted there was an outdated navigation system if I really wanted it. I got my car shipped to LA and dealt with the situation once my property was in my hands.

2) I asked again about the items. Bob said: "The items in your list did not come with the car. We do not have them."

3) Bob then changed his story: "he sent empty boxes or old used parts put back in the boxes the new parts came in... your talking about a few hundred bucks worth of stuff"

A FEW HUNDRED BUCKS of MY property that I asked for and only NOW is admitting even existed.


4) Bob then admits: "I told you 'it was just trash and we threw it away'"

5) Bob then states "any of the car parts we inspected were also used or not usuable" "they are also small maintenance items that are not valuable, filters, belts, etc, are in the $10-$20 range."

Again, MY property that he is now admitting he THREW AWAY even though I asked for them and had a list of the items sent to him before he received the car.


6) He then admits "The old craig speakers were put in the pioneer boxes are not usable because they are in a different electrical format that is no longer used they were paper and they were destroyed they had no value whatsoever."

My, property. Not up to him to decide what they can be used for and certainly not his right to "destroy" them!


7) The next day he goes further " Here is the good news.
I found out today that when the car was brought in, some things were put into a box and other things that were obviously trash were indeed thrown away.
I did not know this box existed until I asked my crew about it, it was put away when the shop was cleaned to prepare for filming. I have not had the chance to inventory all of these items but I am willing to let you have
them if you will...

1) Pay for the return shipping of the items.
2) Remove any negative items about me from your blogs.
3) You will sign a document that says you are satisfied with our business and that it is concluded.
4) You will agree not to threaten me with slander/liable in the future.
5) You will call me and discuss this matter on the phone.


Ahh the big "out" yet I'm the one who has to agree to HIS demands without any inventory of the items?!?!

It doesn't get more indefensible than those seven statements by Bob, all screen captured - all still on my phone and in my email. And the posted voicemail of him saying "" I swear to fucking God I will get in my car and drive straight to LA and deal with this myself." because I made this public? <blink>

[videobob]

I am going to TRY to explain this horrible misunderstanding one last time...

1) Car was dropped off at my shop by the delivery driver sight unseen.
Myself nor anyone at my shop signed for it, it was just left in the lot.
A member of my crew called me to tell me the car had arrived.
I told him to clean it out and prep it for building.
This means that we remove the seats, the center console, the rear windows and anything in the car is taken out.
We had some extra helpers clean out the "stuff" and they put it in a box and placed it upstairs on a shelf in my loft.
I never seen this stuff or the box, I didn't even know about it.
They also cleaned out some empty boxes and papers, used speakers and some other obviously used parts for me to preview.
I instructed them to toss those items in the trash.

2) Adam comes to see the car, preview it and approve it and pay the balance.
He does, he is happy, he takes the car.
At no time does he provide an inventory list or ask about the parts.
Had he done so, we could have found them and gave them to him.

3) Fast forward more than a month, I get an angry letter along with a several pages of his "locked" blog that
outright call me a "thief" for stealing these items.
I try to call him and he refuses to speak to me.
We go back and fourth about the items for a few hours.

4) The next day I go to the shop and ask about these items, a staff member tells me that they did indeed
have a box of parts that I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT and I quickly previewed them.
I confirmed with Adam that we had then and that I would ship them to him.
He refused to accept them until after I gave him an itemized list of the items and refused to speak with me on the phone.
I told him I was to busy for the next few days to do that, so simply talk to me.
Again, he refused.

5) Adam goes public.
He posts this thread, he posts videos about me on his YouTube, he posts pages about me, all in an effort to extort what he wants out of me
as an intimidation tactic, because, he THINKS, I am holding out on him some big box of goodies and I am trying to rip him off.
He insists only on some paper trail of the parts as he is trying to "sue" me for.
Then and only then, after he crosses the line with me do I lose my temper with him and I used salty language.
Big deal... he's a grown up, he can take it.

6) I offer him everything he wants.
I told him I would ship him all the stuff we had, I offer to pay for shipping, I offer to give him free parts, anything to make him happy.
He refuses to give me his address. He refuses to talk to me on the phone. His only wish is to try to gain attention.

So once again I add... I didn't know I had the parts, now that I know I am happy to send them him, at my expense.
All he has to do is give me his address and give me a call.
Those are my two simple requirements.
He may come to my shop and get them if he wishes or as I said, next time I go to LA I will bring them to him personally.
So, why am I the bad guy in this?
The only thing I have refused to do is the pointless task of making him an itemized list of the parts in the box.
What the hell for? What difference does it make?
They were not my responsibility and I am not going to be responsible for them.

So Adam, I am done with this.
If you want the stuff, pick up the phone, call me, I will speak to you calmly and professionally, I will ship it out to you.
Simple as that.
- Bob

[AdamKontras]

2) Adam comes to see the car, preview it and approve it and pay the balance.
He does, he is happy, he takes the car.
At no time does he provide an inventory list or ask about the parts.
Had he done so, we could have found them and gave them to him.

I JUST POSTED THE INVENTORY LIST YOU RECEIVED including your text ADMITTING I ASKED ABOUT THE PARTS in Dallas and you clearly admit you told me the parts were TRASH.

You just lied and contradicted yourself TWICE in one sentence. Are you just trying to fill this thread with the opposite of what you've already admitted to confuse people?

[videobob]

I JUST POSTED THE INVENTORY LIST YOU RECEIVED including your text ADMITTING I ASKED ABOUT THE PARTS in Dallas and you clearly admit you told me the parts were TRASH.

You just lied and contradicted yourself TWICE in one sentence. Are you just trying to fill this thread with the opposite of what you've already admitted to confuse people?

I just explained this to you Adam, please try to understand this.
The stuff that I seen presented to me was indeed trash, the "good stuff" was put in a box and shelved, I didn't know it was there because I arrived after all this was done.
My wife and Jack's girlfriend had helped out for the day and cleaned up for me.
They didn't tell me about the box.
I did not know about the box.
I was unaware of the box.
I had no prior knowledge of the box.
The box, was unseen.
Understand?

The only stuff I DID see was the "trash".
They left it out for me because they didn't want to throw it away before checking with me first.
I went through the items.
There were some empty stereo/speaker boxes.
The original Craig speakers were blown and gone, so those were trashed.
The original Craig radio is MOUNTED ON TOP OF YOUR TIME CIRCUITS - so you still have it.
The "custom back wall panel" was cut up, had been modified and was of no use to anyone, we threw it out.
There were some self-printed, water stained papers that were just stuff off the internet, we threw it out.
So pretty much everything else on the list is still in the box.
The wires, the plugs, the filters, the belts, the extra fuel parts, the keys, etc.
I will send you a picture of the box of parts.
Will that make you happy?

[NightFlyer]

Nightflyer, if the seller didn't have those items there in the first place, Bob would have just said "What are you talking about? There were no parts in there." Adam had the seller send the list of items before Bob even got the car. If the car showed up without them, the ethical business owner would say to Adam "Hey, you might want to talk to the seller because none of those things from the list are in here."

Bob only said the items were never there after he had changed his story a couple times. Then he changed the story a few more times after that.

I don't think the seller is to blame here. Yes, there is no way to prove the items were there when Bob got the car, but Bob has never stuck to the story of "they were never there". If he has a box of stuff but threw away the junk, then the box of stuff was not junk. Either way, none of whatever is in the box or what he threw away belongs to Bob.

1) As previously stated, I'm no fan of VB - quite the contrary in fact.

2) Unless all of the asserted communications being used to show contradiction/harassment/etc are certifiably original and unaltered, their admissibility in a court of law is questionable at best, thus I cannot rely upon them in providing an accurate analysis. Assuming that they're kosher, even then, Bob is free to change his story yet again, under oath, thus the records can merely be used to discredit Bob's character and convince the trier of fact that he is in fact the one who's lying here - that's still an extraordinary burden to be born by the plaintiff successfully in a court of law.

3) I never said that it was the seller's fault at all. My assertion has always been that the purchaser wasn't exactly as diligent as he should have been to protect his interests in the transaction, and that had he simply been a little more diligent in conducting his purchase with the seller, that the entire situation could have easily been avoided all together, as even if Bob had conducted himself in an exacting fashion, the purchaser would have at least had some empirical evidence to support his claim, which would have been difficult for Bob to refute.

4) Having just glanced at Mr. Kontras' blog, I note this entry in particular for solidifying the point that I'm trying to make here:


In April I asked Greg to email both you and me the contents of the Delorean he shipped as I was concerned you might take them and I'd have no course of action.

If Mr. Kontras' was as worried about Bob's ethics before hand as this communication presupposes, then one wonders a) why he even chose to do business with Bob in the first place, and b) why he didn't act to better protect himself against such potential unscrupulous actions by Bob?

My whole point and interest in participating in this thread is objectively pointing out where Mr. Kontras went wrong in failing to protect himself so that others don't wind up in his shoes in the future.

I'm most certainly NOT defending Bob, nor should any of my comments in this thread be interpreted as such.

While Bob may very well be in the wrong here (and in fact, I definitely think that he was wrong to place judgment upon and throw out anything that wasn't his, at a minimum), to prove him wrong in a court of law with the evidence available is going to be an uphill battle if he chooses to fight it. Had Mr. Kontras exercised a little more diligence with his initial purchase of the vehicle/parts, he at least would currently be on solid (and extremely hard to refute) evidentiary grounds in proving his case against Bob.

Again, the take away of my posts should be to always conduct your due diligence as a purchaser to avoid situations such as these altogether :thumbup:

Best luck to those involved and may real justice ultimately be obtained by those who are truly righteous in this matter.

[AdamKontras]

I just explained this to you Adam, please try to understand this.
The stuff that I seen presented to me was indeed trash, the "good stuff" was put in a box and shelved, I didn't know it was there because I arrived after all this was done.
My wife and Jack's girlfriend had helped out for the day and cleaned up for me.
They didn't tell me about the box.
I did not know about the box.
I was unaware of the box.
I had no prior knowledge of the box.
The box, was unseen.
Understand?

The only stuff I DID see was the "trash".
They left it out for me because they didn't want to throw it away before checking with me first.
I went through the items.
There were some empty stereo/speaker boxes.
The original Craig speakers were blown and gone, so those were trashed.
The original Craig radio is MOUNTED ON TOP OF YOUR TIME CIRCUITS - so you still have it.
The "custom back wall panel" was cut up, had been modified and was of no use to anyone, we threw it out.
There were some self-printed, water stained papers that were just stuff off the internet, we threw it out.
So pretty much everything else on the list is still in the box.
The wires, the plugs, the filters, the belts, the extra fuel parts, the keys, etc.
I will send you a picture of the box of parts.
Will that make you happy?

I've only asked you in nearly every post to tell me what you have so we can resolve this. You have refused because you didn't have time. It's as if a totally different person has been writing as you the past 48 hours. OF COURSE I want to know what parts you have.

And this post is still contradicting your last post where you said you never received an inventory and I never asked about the parts. But who cares, just give me a list of the items you have.

[NightFlyer]

The original Craig speakers were blown and gone, so those were trashed.

I've seen very few Craig speakers that are truly blown, as the stock Craig head-unit didn't have enough power to truly blow the magnets/drivers (voice-coil fusion/melt-down) used in the stock speakers (it would literally take several days of constant full volume operation before the voice-coils would suffer irreversible degradation). Usually, the foam surrounds are just degraded, or the actual paper cones are compromised, but coaxials can be successfully re-coned and the surrounds successfully replaced. I've personally done this many times in the past. Just an FYI on this point....


I will send you a picture of the box of parts. Will that make you happy?

As this was now made very public, why not just post the pics on the forum for all to see? I doubt that Mr. Kontras woudl have any objections to this...

[videobob]

28408284092841028411

Here are some photos I just forwarded to Adam.
The trash bag had the bass speakers in it.
The two totes had the other missing parts.

Again, this stuff was put in these totes when cleaning out the car.
All this stuff was stacked up downstairs by the car, I did what I usually do and I came in like the King and waved my hand
and said, "clean this mess up, we have people coming and I want it nice in here".... so the totes got stored upstairs before
I ever had a chance to look at them. I forgot about them. I never go up on the loft if I can help it.
The "trash" was left behind and I decided it should be tossed, again, these were boxes, etc. Nothing valuable.

Here's the thing.
Adam could have simply called me to talk about this and I could have looked into it.
Instead, he planned this attack out carefully.
He put together 3 pages of text message collages, photos, videos, etc.
An awful lot of work don't you think?

So I have texted him these photos and I am texting with him now.
He says he is reviewing it......

[AdamKontras]

28408284092841028411

Here are some photos I just forwarded to Adam.
The trash bag had the bass speakers in it.
The two totes had the other missing parts.

Again, this stuff was put in these totes when cleaning out the car.
All this stuff was stacked up downstairs by the car, I did what I usually do and I came in like the King and waved my hand
and said, "clean this mess up, we have people coming and I want it nice in here".... so the totes got stored upstairs before
I ever had a chance to look at them. I forgot about them. I never go up on the loft if I can help it.
The "trash" was left behind and I decided it should be tossed, again, these were boxes, etc. Nothing valuable.

Here's the thing.
Adam could have simply called me to talk about this and I could have looked into it.
Instead, he planned this attack out carefully.
He put together 3 pages of text message collages, photos, videos, etc.
An awful lot of work don't you think?

So I have texted him these photos and I am texting with him now.
He says he is reviewing it......


Alright, in light of Bob literally finding nearly every part on the list (though I will review everything tomorrow) it seems this is coming to an end. The implication that I am the attacker that somehow kept him from simply TALKING TO HIS EMPLOYEES is more than aggravating. Amazing, your texts to me are totally apologetic and understanding, I come here to sing kumbaya and I see this? Brother, why wouldn't I be angry at you after you telling me you trashed my shit. Why can't you consider someone else's feelings here? I have begged you to just LOOK IN THOSE BOXES and you refused! Now you do and suddenly all the parts are still there?!?!? And I'm the asshole?!?!

Uggh. I'm done. I'll sit and look at those pictures and try to match them up to the list and we should have this over with tomorrow. But for fuck's sake Bob. Accept responsibility for the fact that you and you alone caused all of this. I sent the inventory list before you received the car, I asked for the parts and you dropped the ball. You can admit that in private (even finally admitting you never even looked at the inventory email) so stand-up and admit it here! IT WILL HUMANIZE YOU. You wonder why everyone has these issues with you? That's why. Goodnight.

[videobob]

Yes, the cones were shot... that's what I meant about the speakers.
Besides, the old style Craig radio and speakers uses a different common ground system, I learned this the hard way a long time ago.
The new radio and new speakers require new wires, which is what we did.
He has a nice new modern DIN radio in there with new Pioneer speakers and the old Craig radio was placed on top of the Time Circuits, this is what we do for every build.
Considering that we are not making a "concourse" car and we are drilling a hundred holes in the car like swiss cheese, I didn't think things like that would matter anyway.
The car is heavily modified and customized with a new alternator, batteries, etc.
Original parts are the worst parts for any Delorean!


I've seen very few Craig speakers that are truly blown, as the stock Craig head-unit didn't have enough power to truly blow the magnets/drivers (voice-coil fusion/melt-down) used in the stock speakers (it would literally take several days of constant full volume operation before the voice-coils would suffer irreversible degradation). Usually, the foam surrounds are just degraded, or the actual paper cones are compromised, but coaxials can be successfully re-coned and the surrounds successfully replaced. I've personally done this many times in the past. Just an FYI on this point....



As this was now made very public, why not just post the pics on the forum for all to see? I doubt that Mr. Kontras woudl have any objections to this...

[videobob]

Adam, you're right, I am sorry.
I am so sorry I didn't go looking for the boxes of parts I never knew existed.
I am sorry I never got the inventory list that was sent to you and not to me.
I am sorry you never brought this list up to me while you were in my shop for 3 days, as we might could have found the stuff back then and I could have sent the stuff to you.
I am sorry that instead of simply calling me on the phone you chose to, over a week ago, put together your "banana" video and plan your attack on me.
I am sorry that you publicly called me a thief and I used foul language to you, privately, in a personal text message.
I am sorry that you decided to go onto a public forum instead of trying to work it out with me privately on the phone.
I am sorry myself and my crew spent so much extra time on your car, making it one of our best.
I am sorry I ever met you.
...So very Sorry.


Alright, in light of Bob literally finding nearly every part on the list (though I will review everything tomorrow) it seems this is coming to an end. The implication that I am the attacker that somehow kept him from simply TALKING TO HIS EMPLOYEES is more than aggravating. Amazing, your texts to me are totally apologetic and understanding, I come here to sing kumbaya and I see this? Brother, why wouldn't I be angry at you after you telling me you trashed my shit. Why can't you consider someone else's feelings here? I have begged you to just LOOK IN THOSE BOXES and you refused! Now you do and suddenly all the parts are still there?!?!? And I'm the asshole?!?!

Uggh. I'm done. I'll sit and look at those pictures and try to match them up to the list and we should have this over with tomorrow. But for fuck's sake Bob. Accept responsibility for the fact that you and you alone caused all of this. I sent the inventory list before you received the car, I asked for the parts and you dropped the ball. You can admit that in private (even finally admitting you never even looked at the inventory email) so stand-up and admit it here! IT WILL HUMANIZE YOU. You wonder why everyone has these issues with you? That's why. Goodnight.

[Kane]

The "trash" was left behind and I decided it should be tossed, again, these were boxes, etc. Nothing valuable.

Not your decision to make.

[AdamKontras]

OK, if anyone can make out more parts than:

2 bass tubes
2 new horns
some spare belts

Please let me know. Everything is on top of each other in the pictures and one picture is of a closed trash bag. I desperately want to end this but I find it remarkable that it's somehow my job to play "where's waldo" in a box that is right in front of him that he could easily do himself. I am literally :banghead:

He said he's busy until the weekend and I will let this go until then. Hopefully at that time he can actually look through the box for me since I'm in front of a computer screen in Los Angeles. So we are all clear, I just want to know what he has before he ships it because I will want to CROSS REFERENCE THAT LIST WITH THE ITEMS ONCE THEY ARRIVE.

Seems the prudent thing to do.

[AdamKontras]

I am sorry I never got the inventory list that was sent to you and not to me.

28412

Stop, changing, your story. You just admitted in a text "I don't remember if I got the email or not there were so many emails that it may have slipped my mind or I just didn't pay attention to it sorry" in private...

...then you come on here and say:



I am sorry I never got the inventory list that was sent to you and not to me.

Here's the screenshot, Bob:

28412

STOP TRYING TO BE THE VICTIM HERE. You take one step forward and then you can't leave the thread without lying!? Brother, quit already. GOOD LORD.

EDIT: I have never seen anyone flip so fast in my life. What is actually going on here. Does someone else have your phone? I'm not joking. The person texting me right now is NOT the person posting in this thread. They are saying opposite things. What on earth is going on. No one could possibly continually contradict their previous statements MINUTES apart...

[videobob]

you are showing an email was sent to me.
Can you show me where I ever replied to this email?
I was not in email contact with Greg, he called me on the phone.
I suppose this email went into my spam/junk folder.
I don't have a record of it in my email.
Your flea market of extra crap should not be my responsibility.
My job was to build your Time Machine, not to inventory amd store this crap.
If it was so important to you, you could have presented this detailed list of yours and inquired about when you were roaming around my shop for days.
I bet that if you review some of the video you shot upstairs, you were practicly tripping over it!!!!
I never hid it from you or denied it from you.
Not then, not now.
Come and get it.

[NightFlyer]

Honestly guys, at this point, who gives a rats ass who said what and when about the situation?

Bottom line here is that we now have demonstrative proof that a vast majority (if not all) of what was inventoried appears to have been found and has been offered to be returned to the rightful owner without issue or delay. As it appears that Bob is admitting to having forgotten about these items when temporarily stored in his shop's loft during a speedy clean-up of the shop by his people and at his direction, I believe it to be fair/just that Bob bare the expense of getting these items to Mr. Kontras in an orderly and proper fashion. This doesn't mean professionally packaged over-night service, but rather decently packaged third class mail with tracking would be completely sufficient, given the circumstances here.

If any items from the inventoried list are still missing upon the return of what was found, Mr. Kontras can return to this thread and get an assessment as to the value of the remaining un-returned property, which Bob can then counter if he wishes to dispute it at all. In the end though, if both sides would be willing to accept a neutral arbitrators decision as to the matter of fair compensation for any such remaining un-returned property that has been disputed here, it would save you both a lot of time, aggravation, and resources vs pursing these issues further in the judicial system. I'm more than willing to act as that arbitrator, as I would hope that my reputation for objectivity on these forums precedes itself.

While it may not have been right of Bob to keep (which now appears to have been an honest error/mistake) or trash any property that wasn't his, some of what was inventoried on the list is indeed of little to a nominal value only, just so everyone is fully aware of that.

Let's see this get wrapped up and resolved soon by both sides cutting the 'you said this' and 'you said that' crap, and instead focusing on getting the property returned and an amicable resolution agreed to! :thumbup:

Because of how things have played out thus far, I highly recommend that Bob spread out everything so that it all appears in photos at a minimum, so that he's protected from any after-the-fact retaliation. Posting those photos here would also be a good thing to do. If he were really ambitious, composing a list of everything would also be a good idea, although it's not necessary provided he gets representative photos of everything.

I have little doubt that this can be resolved amicably in a short amount of time provided that we all stay focused on the goal and refrain from continuing to bring up the bullshit/pride/egos that allowed this to snowball into what it did in the first place - this goes for both parties, and I'll ignore any bantering about 'but he did this first' or what not, so please, just don't even post it.

The ball's in your court now guys, what do you both say? Let's get it done and move on to bigger/better things!

[AdamKontras]

Bottom line here is that we now have demonstrative proof that a vast majority (if not all) of what was inventoried appears to have been found and has been offered to be returned to the rightful owner without issue or delay. As it appears that Bob is admitting to having forgotten about these items when temporarily stored in his shop's loft during a speedy clean-up of the shop by his people and at his direction, I believe it to be fair/just that Bob bare the expense of getting these items to Mr. Kontras in an orderly and proper fashion. This doesn't mean professionally packaged over-night service, but rather decently packaged third class mail with tracking would be completely sufficient, given the circumstances here.

If any items from the inventoried list are still missing upon the return of what was found, Mr. Kontras can return to this thread and get an assessment as to the value of the remaining un-returned property, which Bob can then counter if he wishes to dispute it at all. In the end though, if both sides would be willing to accept a neutral arbitrators decision as to the matter of fair compensation for any such remaining un-returned property that has been disputed here, it would save you both a lot of time, aggravation, and resources vs pursing these issues further in the judicial system. I'm more than willing to act as that arbitrator, as I would hope that my reputation for objectivity on these forums precedes itself.

While it may not have been right of Bob to keep (which now appears to have been an honest error/mistake) or trash any property that wasn't his, some of what was inventoried on the list is indeed of little to a nominal value only, just so everyone is fully aware of that.

Nighflyer, I do not mind you not wanting to read the entries as it's indeed a pain in the ass. I do however mind you making sure "everyone is fully aware" when you, yourself, do not have all of the information and want to avoid the particulars. Those particulars are the reason we are still in this mess. Bob replies that now because I didn't personally go through the boxes in his shop (after he said it was trash) that I'm to blame? And can you imagine walking into someone's business and nosing through their things? These parts are not nominal value to replace, and are my property:


From Delorean.com
Parts for tune-up:
$47.58 New Coil
$56.97 New 8mm spark wires
$18.13 New Bosch Platinum 4 prong plugs
$27.50 New Cap
$15.95 New Rotor
$27.44 New O2 Sensor
$10.56 New PCV Valve

$34.88 Spare Belts
$18.99 New Fuel Pump Harness for alternative VW 909 Pump
$63.07 New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key
$99.88 Working original window switches
$49.94 Original RPM relay as backup
$108.39 Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter
$15.00 Reproduction Owners Manual
$149.50 The good floor carpets (I have no-name generics on the floors)
$9.95 R134a Variable Orifice Tube (current system is R12)
$610.94 Working original Craig radio
$70.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Front
$140.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Back

Cheap as I could find them online:
$5.98 Couple of Jumper Wires
$9.95 Radio Remote Control
$36.95 Fire extinguisher
$120.14 New Backlit, Electroluminescent Gauge cluster, LEDs
$159.99 Rear Pioneer Speakers
$199.98 2 Bass tubes
$179.95 New 2-Way Car Alarm, with channels for trunk pop, lock/unlock, driver door pop, dual door pop
$39.99 New Horns

$2,327.60

From the pictures he has finally included, one of them is a closed trash bag, and I can make out maybe 3 things from the list (as it's somehow my job to do this?). I'm being strung along while he pleads he has no time to actually look in the box. Anyone of us in this situation would stop blaming everyone else, PICK UP THE ITEMS IN FRONT OF THEM, and compare them to the list (as you asked him to do Nightflyer). So please Bob, at your earliest convenience, print out the list and find the items. It is more than clear now these items are there and ones you cannot find are most likely in ANOTHER garbage bag you do not know about. Just hand someone the list and have them find the items. And please stop antagonizing with "Come and get it". Nightflyer might be trying to avoid those comments, but I assure you future customers will not.

[Kane]

To be fair, Bob did say what was in the garbage bag:

"The trash bag had the bass speakers in it."

[AdamKontras]

To be fair, Bob did say what was in the garbage bag:

"The trash bag had the bass speakers in it."

Of course, but you're missing the point. He chose to upload THAT PICTURE rather than another picture of actual PARTS. :banghead:

[ALEXAKOS]

Sad to see such an exciting event reveal foul makings.

I fully feel Adam's anger (not cause he's got a Greek last name) and I find him quite realistic.
"Gimmie my parts back" is a simple as it can get.

I don't understand why its been made into such a big anger issue by the prop builder.
But I guess where is a smoke, there is a fire.

If Adam had foul intentions he would not create such a supportive video of the event picking up his "toy" to warship the builder at first.

Truly sorry for this your Delorean experience is marked that way Adam. I hope our community can turn around this bitterness...

and Welcome :)

[videobob]

* I removed the video of my phone call with Adam because of a 3rd party who was mentioned in the conversation who asked to me omitted.
So I may edit them out later, for now it is locked.

Secondly, I will say this for the millionth time...
I never refused to give him his parts.
I never refused to talk to this dude.
Adam has been the roadblock this entire time, because he wants me to make him an itemized list of the parts FIRST
and submit it to him so he can review it, for what reason I don't know, only then and after that time will be tell me how to proceed.
I asked him for his address to ship him the parts - HE REFUSED.
I asked him to talk to me on the phone so we could work out the details - HE REFUSED.
He is the only thing holding this up.

As I announced at DCS, we are shooting a TV show at my shop.
It includes all the members of my staff.
We had a 12 hour day yesterday, being that I am the focus, I am in every scene.
Many of the scenes are out of the shop.
We spent the whole day at an upholstery shop, then driving scenes, then back at my shop until midnight.
Now, I do have time to use my phone/ipad between scenes, but I don't have time to go make a cross reference parts list for this dude.
Even if I did have the time, I refuse to do it.
I am NOT going to be responsible for this stuff.
If it was so important to him he could have inquired about it while he visited my shop for 3 days.
He could have had his coveted itemized list and we could have searched the items out, or dealt with the compensation at that time.
According to my shop policy, items left over 30 days become our property.
So technically this stuff is mine. I don't want it. I consider it mostly trash.
Our business is concluded as far as I am concerned.
He approved the build, signed off on it and paid me the balance.
I helped him load it on the truck and away it went.
Then he spent an additional day with me at my home (while I treated him to 20oz Ribeyes)
and at no time did he ever bring this stuff up!!!!
This is truly the issue, because he never DID bring this stuff up.
If you look at the timeline of his blogs and videos about this situation, he planned this attack on me for WEEKS.
All the while, being friendly to me on the phone as we exchanged text messages and photos, shared things on facebook,
he called me up to gossip about the celebrities who attended his event, all in fun.
I never at any time had any clue about his angry blog or videos.

He then tells me last night in a text message that he is angry that I "rubbed my car in his face" because MY personal
car and it's amazing props were so much better than his.
His jealousy about this helped prompt these actions, my videos and photos from the car show last weekend must have really set him off I guess,
because that's when all this started.

My wife Rachel has a degree in psychology, we have talked about this and I wonder if Adam doesn't suffer from a mild bi-polar disorder.
His extreme narcissism and ego is well publicized, making my own look tiny.
He told me he is "famous" for having the longest running "video blog" in the world, so daily, he points a camera at himself and does a video diary
in the hopes that anyone will see it.
He tried desperately for years to get "Adam and the Egos" into television.
So far all of his attempts have failed, so he lives, jobless, off the wealth of his wife's parents.
He borrowed the money to buy this car as a last ditch effort at some sort of fame..... seeing how well it worked for me.
He uses it to put on mocked up charity events for the sole purpose of getting news coverage and conning my celebrity friends to hang out with him.
(PS, I do charity events all the time, but I NEVER talk about them because I think that's just a douchey move, that's why it's charity)

So now, as Videobob has the 1st place winning Time Machine, rubbing elbows with Christopher Lloyd and is shooting scenes for his upcoming TV Show,
Adam, eaten up with envy and jealousy, goes on the attack to Videobob with no other goal in mind than to get some fame for himself.
He refuses to talk on the phone for a solution.
He refuses to accept the items being shipped to him and refuses to give out his address.
He doesn't want a solution, he wants a fight, a public fight, a public fight with the infamous Videobob who is so easy to hate because like clockwork
I am stupid enough to play along with these assholes.
When the fuck will I ever learn?

99.99% of the planet could give a shit.
For the 2 interested people reading this, it should be obvious what is going on and you know I am right.
I know I am brash, I am obnoxious, I can be an asshole, I know, I know... but does it make me in the WRONG?
Did I "steal" anything from this guy? - NO.
Did I do this guy "wrong"? - NO.
Did I refuse to ship him his stuff? - NO.
Did I refuse to communicate with him? - NO.
Did I come on here and publicly call him out? - NO.

I don't think there is really anything else I can say about this.
I have the stuff Adam left behind at my shop, he is welcomed to it if he wants it.
When he is ready to act like a man and take the basic necessary steps for me to ship him the items,
I will.

Other than that I consider our "friendship" dissolved.

I think I have provided all the evidence I can.
The conclusion of this investigation is as follows:
Call me a thief unjustly without giving me a chance to look into the situation and resolve it will result in a knee jerk reaction in which
I will tell you to "Fuck off and Die".
Bottom line, treat me with respect and you will be treated likewise.
This has been a "problem" my entire life, that I will not be bullied, that I always stand up for myself till the bitter end.
Every fight like this that I have ever had has been about my standing up for my integrity.
I guess it's like Marty in BTTF when he is called "Chicken"?
I guess we are the same in that way.
I suppose I should just ignore these people and let the world think about me what it wants.
My friends, my family, my employees and the real people who know me, love me.
That's all that matters.
Thanks.

[AdamKontras]

* I removed the video of my phone call with Adam because of a 3rd party who was mentioned in the conversation who asked to me omitted.
So I may edit them out later, for now it is locked.

Secondly, I will say this for the millionth time...
I never refused to give him his parts.
I never refused to talk to this dude.
Adam has been the roadblock this entire time, because he wants me to make him an itemized list of the parts FIRST
and submit it to him so he can review it, for what reason I don't know, only then and after that time will be tell me how to proceed.
I asked him for his address to ship him the parts - HE REFUSED.
I asked him to talk to me on the phone so we could work out the details - HE REFUSED.
He is the only thing holding this up.

As I announced at DCS, we are shooting a TV show at my shop.
It includes all the members of my staff.
We had a 12 hour day yesterday, being that I am the focus, I am in every scene.
Many of the scenes are out of the shop.
We spent the whole day at an upholstery shop, then driving scenes, then back at my shop until midnight.
Now, I do have time to use my phone/ipad between scenes, but I don't have time to go make a cross reference parts list for this dude.
Even if I did have the time, I refuse to do it.
I am NOT going to be responsible for this stuff.
If it was so important to him he could have inquired about it while he visited my shop for 3 days.
He could have had his coveted itemized list and we could have searched the items out, or dealt with the compensation at that time.
According to my shop policy, items left over 30 days become our property.
So technically this stuff is mine. I don't want it. I consider it mostly trash.
Our business is concluded as far as I am concerned.
He approved the build, signed off on it and paid me the balance.
I helped him load it on the truck and away it went.
Then he spent an additional day with me at my home (while I treated him to 20oz Ribeyes)
and at no time did he ever bring this stuff up!!!!
This is truly the issue, because he never DID bring this stuff up.
If you look at the timeline of his blogs and videos about this situation, he planned this attack on me for WEEKS.
All the while, being friendly to me on the phone as we exchanged text messages and photos, shared things on facebook,
he called me up to gossip about the celebrities who attended his event, all in fun.
I never at any time had any clue about his angry blog or videos.

He then tells me last night in a text message that he is angry that I "rubbed my car in his face" because MY personal
car and it's amazing props were so much better than his.
His jealousy about this helped prompt these actions, my videos and photos from the car show last weekend must have really set him off I guess,
because that's when all this started.

My wife Rachel has a degree in psychology, we have talked about this and I wonder if Adam doesn't suffer from a mild bi-polar disorder.
His extreme narcissism and ego is well publicized, making my own look tiny.
He told me he is "famous" for having the longest running "video blog" in the world, so daily, he points a camera at himself and does a video diary
in the hopes that anyone will see it.
He tried desperately for years to get "Adam and the Egos" into television.
So far all of his attempts have failed, so he lives, jobless, off the wealth of his wife's parents.
He borrowed the money to buy this car as a last ditch effort at some sort of fame..... seeing how well it worked for me.
He uses it to put on mocked up charity events for the sole purpose of getting news coverage and conning my celebrity friends to hang out with him.
(PS, I do charity events all the time, but I NEVER talk about them because I think that's just a douchey move, that's why it's charity)

So now, as Videobob has the 1st place winning Time Machine, rubbing elbows with Christopher Lloyd and is shooting scenes for his upcoming TV Show,
Adam, eaten up with envy and jealousy, goes on the attack to Videobob with no other goal in mind than to get some fame for himself.
He refuses to talk on the phone for a solution.
He refuses to accept the items being shipped to him and refuses to give out his address.
He doesn't want a solution, he wants a fight, a public fight, a public fight with the infamous Videobob who is so easy to hate because like clockwork
I am stupid enough to play along with these assholes.
When the fuck will I ever learn?

99.99% of the planet could give a shit.
For the 2 interested people reading this, it should be obvious what is going on and you know I am right.
I know I am brash, I am obnoxious, I can be an asshole, I know, I know... but does it make me in the WRONG?
Did I "steal" anything from this guy? - NO.
Did I do this guy "wrong"? - NO.
Did I refuse to ship him his stuff? - NO.
Did I refuse to communicate with him? - NO.
Did I come on here and publicly call him out? - NO.

I don't think there is really anything else I can say about this.
I have the stuff Adam left behind at my shop, he is welcomed to it if he wants it.
When he is ready to act like a man and take the basic necessary steps for me to ship him the items,
I will.

Other than that I consider our "friendship" dissolved.

I think I have provided all the evidence I can.
The conclusion of this investigation is as follows:
Call me a thief unjustly without giving me a chance to look into the situation and resolve it will result in a knee jerk reaction in which
I will tell you to "Fuck off and Die".
Bottom line, treat me with respect and you will be treated likewise.
This has been a "problem" my entire life, that I will not be bullied, that I always stand up for myself till the bitter end.
Every fight like this that I have ever had has been about my standing up for my integrity.
I guess it's like Marty in BTTF when he is called "Chicken"?
I guess we are the same in that way.
I suppose I should just ignore these people and let the world think about me what it wants.
My friends, my family, my employees and the real people who know me, love me.
That's all that matters.
Thanks.

Is that clear enough for you, Nightflyer?

[AdamKontras]

Bob is actually admitting that this is his business practice:

If you ask for your things when you come to pick up your car, we will tell you they were trashed. When you later find out we had the items all along? I'm sorry, it has been 30 days and now it's our property.

<blink>

Keep writing Bob. It's making things a lot easier.

[Silverbullet]

Nighflyer, I do not mind you not wanting to read the entries as it's indeed a pain in the ass. I do however mind you making sure "everyone is fully aware" when you, yourself, do not have all of the information and want to avoid the particulars. Those particulars are the reason we are still in this mess. Bob replies that now because I didn't personally go through the boxes in his shop (after he said it was trash) that I'm to blame? And can you imagine walking into someone's business and nosing through their things? These parts are not nominal value to replace, and are my property:


From Delorean.com
Parts for tune-up:
$47.58 New Coil
$56.97 New 8mm spark wires
$18.13 New Bosch Platinum 4 prong plugs
$27.50 New Cap
$15.95 New Rotor
$27.44 New O2 Sensor
$10.56 New PCV Valve

$34.88 Spare Belts
$18.99 New Fuel Pump Harness for alternative VW 909 Pump
$63.07 New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key
$99.88 Working original window switches
$49.94 Original RPM relay as backup
$108.39 Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter
$15.00 Reproduction Owners Manual
$149.50 The good floor carpets (I have no-name generics on the floors)
$9.95 R134a Variable Orifice Tube (current system is R12)
$610.94 Working original Craig radio
$70.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Front
$140.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Back

Cheap as I could find them online:
$5.98 Couple of Jumper Wires
$9.95 Radio Remote Control
$36.95 Fire extinguisher
$120.14 New Backlit, Electroluminescent Gauge cluster, LEDs
$159.99 Rear Pioneer Speakers
$199.98 2 Bass tubes
$179.95 New 2-Way Car Alarm, with channels for trunk pop, lock/unlock, driver door pop, dual door pop
$39.99 New Horns

$2,327.60

From the pictures he has finally included, one of them is a closed trash bag, and I can make out maybe 3 things from the list (as it's somehow my job to do this?). I'm being strung along while he pleads he has no time to actually look in the box. Anyone of us in this situation would stop blaming everyone else, PICK UP THE ITEMS IN FRONT OF THEM, and compare them to the list (as you asked him to do Nightflyer). So please Bob, at your earliest convenience, print out the list and find the items. It is more than clear now these items are there and ones you cannot find are most likely in ANOTHER garbage bag you do not know about. Just hand someone the list and have them find the items. And please stop antagonizing with "Come and get it". Nightflyer might be trying to avoid those comments, but I assure you future customers will not.

Ah.... not to take sides.... but your $610.94 Craig Radio is on top of your dash... And Blown Craig Speakers are not $140 +$70... Your pricing is to make a point, but you look like you are being unreasonable...

Craig

[AdamKontras]

Ah.... not to take sides.... but your $610.94 Craig Radio is on top of your dash... And Blown Craig Speakers are not $140 +$70... Your pricing is to make a point, but you look like you are being unreasonable...

Craig

I'm being unreasonable listing the cost I would have to pay to replace the parts I already purchased? I don't want the money, I want my parts. If the Craig Radio is indeed on top of my dash (I'm talking to other builders as to that prop) by all means it will be removed from the list. Since I have no accounting for what items he actually has, I can't do anything except sending the 10-day demand letter and giving the receipt and letter to the Duncanville Police Department per their instructions so they can file the report.

...or he could just, you know - find the items on the list in his shop and ship them back to me.

[AdamKontras]

An example of how nearly any other business would deal with this:

"My apologies for misplacing your items. We have found the items on your list, here's a picture of what we're shipping back so you can cross-reference. Your original radio was used for the dash prop so you actually already have that. Unfortunately my crew did indeed throw out ______ please let me know the best way to resolve this as buying you a brand new part for what was a used item seems unfair."

See how easy that is? Took me 90 seconds to write that and it would take 5 minutes to spread the items out and take a picture. I don't want money, I want my things. I had no choice but to list the price of the replacement parts BECAUSE this continues to drag on. That "price list" was step 4 or 5 after asking for my parts back.

[ALEXAKOS]

An example of how nearly any other business would deal with this:

"My apologies for misplacing your items. We have found the items on your list, here's a picture of what we're shipping back so you can cross-reference. Your original radio was used for the dash prop so you actually already have that. Unfortunately my crew did indeed throw out ______ please let me know the best way to resolve this as buying you a brand new part for what was a used item seems unfair."

HA! Right on.
But that "other Business" would have not grilled you some steaks or sang you in his Karaokee! hahahahaha

But yes, you seemed to have reached a friendly level... Could have been "oops sorry dude, I'll check it out for ya and look in my workshop box chaos"

The way I have seen this escalate, feels more like you are dumping a chick and she going nuts on you! hahahahaha
You: "You just don't give me what I want"
She: " Bitch, bitch, bitch.... ( as in the female blah blah blah)":screwy:

[videobob]

The police?
I think what I will do is put all this stuff in a trash bag and drop it off at the Duncanville police department with the officer who is handling the case.
They can work out with you the packing and shipping.

[Kane]

We had a 12 hour day yesterday, being that I am the focus, I am in every scene.

Even if I did have the time, I refuse to do it.

I will tell you to "Fuck off and Die".

It's good to confirm that Bob puts his quest for a TV show and fame above running an ethical business.

To anyone else thinking of becoming a customer of Bob's, think about that carefully.

Who runs a business like this? Can you imagine Josh or any DMC franchise ever saying things like this to a customer? or even to treat them this way at all?

"but, but, but... I cooked for you!" :screwy:

[Silverbullet]

I'm being unreasonable listing the cost I would have to pay to replace the parts I already purchased? I don't want the money, I want my parts. If the Craig Radio is indeed on top of my dash (I'm talking to other builders as to that prop) by all means it will be removed from the list. Since I have no accounting for what items he actually has, I can't do anything except sending the 10-day demand letter and giving the receipt and letter to the Duncanville Police Department per their instructions so they can file the report.

...or he could just, you know - find the items on the list in his shop and ship them back to me.

Ah.... again... not my fight... But you bought a BTTF Car, and NOW you have to talk to "Other" builders, to ask if the radio is on top of your dash? Really?

Craig

[AdamKontras]

Wow. From someone who attended last weekend's Delorean Car Show:


"not sure if this was included with your car originally but Bob was selling spare tires at the show. He was selling other parts to but I don't know what specifically. i'm sure you can verify this with someone else who attended, I really want to stay out of this."

Starting to understand why Bob doesn't wish to itemize these parts. Alright, is there anyone here who was at the car show that can verify that Bob was selling parts? Jesus this is disappointing. Yes the spare tire was included but I left it off the list because I had no way of transporting it back with my vehicle. All the other items would've fit easily inside the car. But it's getting more and more clear what happened here. I can't accuse him unless one of you is willing to admit you saw this... but this piece of information plus the fact that Bob refuses to tell me what items he has is getting awfully damning.

[AdamKontras]

Ah.... again... not my fight... But you bought a BTTF Car, and NOW you have to talk to "Other" builders, to ask if the radio is on top of your dash? Really?

Craig

Sorry you misunderstood.

The original Back to the Future Delorean Time Machine prop did not use the craig radio. Little known fact, actually. However the original craig radio is so close that most builders do indeed use it. The prop radio can be cheaper and sometimes when builders do a lot of builds they have a stack of those and put those on top. I have taken pictures of my radio and sent them to a couple builders to verify which radio this is.

And honestly, no idea why you're being snarky with me. I'm the customer who simply wants the parts he paid for, remember?

[Silverbullet]

Not snarky.... Just seems like a simple thing to look at... My guess is an old Craig, that came with the car should be easy to put on the dash, and not spend money on a prop...

I always look to see motive... 3 months have past... what made it a 10? Next are you going to ask for your old Rear Louver? Rear Quarter Glass? It seems when you mod a car, parts get removed... Said parts get left... Said spare parts get sold....

Craig

[AdamKontras]

Not snarky.... Just seems like a simple thing to look at... My guess is an old Craig, that came with the car should be easy to put on the dash, and not spend money on a prop...

I always look to see motive... 3 months have past... what made it a 10? Next are you going to ask for your old Rear Louver? Rear Quarter Glass? It seems when you mod a car, parts get removed... Said parts get left... Said spare parts get sold....

Craig

Oh it seems you are misinformed. It's a long thread I understand.

These are not the parts from the modification. I never asked nor did I want those parts. When I purchased the car the seller included over $2300 worth of extras for upgrade and maintenance from bass tubes, expensive new delorean parts for a tune-up, etc. I had the seller email both me and bob a detailed list and what they were and where in the car he packed them (list is on page 7). He (or his crew)took the parts, set them aside and told me twice when I asked about them in Dallas that they were "trash" and "thrown out". He has since admitted he does indeed have them but when asked to tell me what he has he has told me to "fuck off and die" because he's too busy. All of this is documented if you'd like to scroll through the thread. Unfortunately people don't want to and assume. <shrugs>

And considering I'm now being told by people who attended the Delorean car show last weekend that Bob was selling parts? Your guess to a motive is as good as mine.

Also, 3 months haven't passed. He got the list of items on April 14th, the car april 15th, I went to Dallas on May 16th and asked for the parts, and when I returned home I contacted the seller in early June and again asked for the parts on June 16th. I'm doing this as fast as humanly possible, but when someone tells you they threw all your things away, your course of action to get to the bottom of it is slow and arduous.

[NightFlyer]

WOW - the bullshit with you two is absolutely mind boggling!

I proposed a solution with simple instructions, and instead of following it, Adam took to continuing to publicly attack Bob, while Bob typed out a huge response replete with ego trips and a who's more famous pissing contest. FYI - all you've accomplished is proving that you're both assholes to the members of this forum.

In the time it took for Bob to type out his response, he could have easily listened to me, dumped out all the parts he has of Adam's, took some photos of them, and posted them on the forum. It's not Bob's responsibility to fully inventory Adam's property - sorry, but if Adam cared as much about his property as he now claims to, then he should have took better care of it upon his purchase of everything from the Bitcoin seller. But Bob did accept delivery of the car with some parts, thus he does indeed have a fiduciary duty to hold and tender the parts to Adam upon delivery of the car. As that wasn't done, he now has the responsibility to tender what ever parts he does have in a reasonable fashion - they should not be held for ransom, to prove a point, or to further engage in your guy's pissing match. That's just stupid.

In fact, Bob doesn't even need to take the pics that I recommended. But if he truly believes Adam to be crazy, then it's cheap insurance and smart business to do so, as to defend against any after-the-fact legal action from Adam could be both timely and costly, even if a court were to ultimately decide that Bob was right.

But hey, don't listen to me guys, I'm only to trying to help...

Had Bob done as I asked instead of engaging in an ego war, Adam then could have went through his list, and seeing as how he has demonstrated that he hasn't a clue what he's actually looking at (doesn't know the stock/OEM Craig from an aftermarket HU), with our assistance, he could have verified exactly what was there and what wasn't.

A fair value then could have been placed on the parts that were missing (if any), which BTW, Adam is not legally entitled to new replacement values as he seems to think, but rather the value of that which he lost only - which as previously stated, some of the items were indeed of little to nominal value (the Bosch platinum plus 4 plugs are junk and are known to lose electrode ends into the cylinder, which could very well ruin your engine - I have a set with less than 1,500 miles on them, if you really want them, just pay for shipping and they're yours).

And the police aren't going to give a rats ass - they're going to tell you that this is a civil matter and to contact an attorney.

So, last chance to receive my help to resolve this situation. Here's Bob's chance to prove that he's being decent by following my instructions, taking the pics, and posting them here. Adam should remain silent and stop contacting Bob. Once the pics are posted, we'll sort through the list and determine what's fair.

Or, you guys can continue with your bullshit and once again prove to everyone here how your both assholes.

The choice is yours guys - what's it going to be? Who's going to prove that they truly are the righteous party here?

If I see any bullshit other than what I specifically asked for from either side, then I'm done trying to help and you two can continue to completely ostracize yourselves from the members of this forum/community, as I honestly don't care.

Good day to you both.

[AdamKontras]

WOW - the bullshit with you two is absolutely mind boggling!

I proposed a solution with simple instructions, and instead of following it, Adam took to continuing to publicly attack Bob, while Bob typed out a huge response replete with ego trips and a who's more famous pissing contest. FYI - all you've accomplished is proving that you're both assholes to the members of this forum.

In the time it took for Bob to type out his response, he could have easily listened to me, dumped out all the parts he has of Adam's, took some photos of them, and posted them on the forum. It's not Bob's responsibility to fully inventory Adam's property - sorry, but if Adam cared as much about his property as he now claims to, then he should have took better care of it upon his purchase of everything from the Bitcoin seller. But Bob did accept delivery of the car with some parts, thus he does indeed have a fiduciary duty to hold and tender the parts to Adam upon delivery of the car. As that wasn't done, he now has the responsibility to tender what ever parts he does have in a reasonable fashion - they should not be held for ransom, to prove a point, or to further engage in your guy's pissing match. That's just stupid.

In fact, Bob doesn't even need to take the pics that I recommended. But if he truly believes Adam to be crazy, then it's cheap insurance and smart business to do so, as to defend against any after-the-fact legal action from Adam could be both timely and costly, even if a court were to ultimately decide that Bob was right.

But hey, don't listen to me guys, I'm only to trying to help...

Had Bob done as I asked instead of engaging in an ego war, Adam then could have went through his list, and seeing as how he has demonstrated that he hasn't a clue what he's actually looking at (doesn't know the stock/OEM Craig from an aftermarket HU), with our assistance, he could have verified exactly what was there and what wasn't.

A fair value then could have been placed on the parts that were missing (if any), which BTW, Adam is not legally entitled to new replacement values as he seems to think, but rather the value of that which he lost only - which as previously stated, some of the items were indeed of little to nominal value (the Bosch platinum plus 4 plugs are junk and are known to lose electrode ends into the cylinder, which could very well ruin your engine - I have a set with less than 1,500 miles on them, if you really want them, just pay for shipping and they're yours).

And the police aren't going to give a rats ass - they're going to tell you that this is a civil matter and to contact an attorney.

So, last chance to receive my help to resolve this situation. Here's Bob's chance to prove that he's being decent by following my instructions, taking the pics, and posting them here. Adam should remain silent and stop contacting Bob. Once the pics are posted, we'll sort through the list and determine what's fair.

Or, you guys can continue with your bullshit and once again prove to everyone here how your both assholes.

The choice is yours guys - what's it going to be? Who's going to prove that they truly are the righteous party here?

If I see any bullshit other than what I specifically asked for from either side, then I'm done trying to help and you two can continue to completely ostracize yourselves from the members of this forum/community, as I honestly don't care.

Good day to you both.

Nightflyer, you can't post pics to things you don't have. You're welcome to wait, I know him well enough to know what he's doing. Ever wonder why he drags a situation like this out for so long? LOL

[AdamKontras]

And boy do I find it frustrating when reading back over threads when people edit things out or take down videos. Bob posted a video of him illegally taping a phone call with me without my consent, filled the description with actual "slander" and then took it down when people realized the phone call was completely civil! Such a huge insight to his character and none of you can see it. Thankfully, the police department here in North Hollywood said that proof that he recorded my call is actually a felony in California though difficult to prove. How fortunate he decided to post it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuobhL6xELM

I understand that Nightflyer would simply wait for Bob to do the right thing and take a picture of the parts (he seemed to skim over the part where Bob said he will never do that and I can "fuck off and die"), however I'm more interested in protecting myself and documenting everything for the police reports and legal action. I hope you all understand.

...or Bob could just take a picture of the parts so we could resolve this. Have a feeling they're not there anymore.

[Silverbullet]

WOW - the bullshit with you two is absolutely mind boggling!

I proposed a solution with simple instructions, and instead of following it, Adam took to continuing to publicly attack Bob, while Bob typed out a huge response replete with ego trips and a who's more famous pissing contest. FYI - all you've accomplished is proving that you're both assholes to the members of this forum.

In the time it took for Bob to type out his response, he could have easily listened to me, dumped out all the parts he has of Adam's, took some photos of them, and posted them on the forum. It's not Bob's responsibility to fully inventory Adam's property - sorry, but if Adam cared as much about his property as he now claims to, then he should have took better care of it upon his purchase of everything from the Bitcoin seller. But Bob did accept delivery of the car with some parts, thus he does indeed have a fiduciary duty to hold and tender the parts to Adam upon delivery of the car. As that wasn't done, he now has the responsibility to tender what ever parts he does have in a reasonable fashion - they should not be held for ransom, to prove a point, or to further engage in your guy's pissing match. That's just stupid.

In fact, Bob doesn't even need to take the pics that I recommended. But if he truly believes Adam to be crazy, then it's cheap insurance and smart business to do so, as to defend against any after-the-fact legal action from Adam could be both timely and costly, even if a court were to ultimately decide that Bob was right.

But hey, don't listen to me guys, I'm only to trying to help...

Had Bob done as I asked instead of engaging in an ego war, Adam then could have went through his list, and seeing as how he has demonstrated that he hasn't a clue what he's actually looking at (doesn't know the stock/OEM Craig from an aftermarket HU), with our assistance, he could have verified exactly what was there and what wasn't.

A fair value then could have been placed on the parts that were missing (if any), which BTW, Adam is not legally entitled to new replacement values as he seems to think, but rather the value of that which he lost only - which as previously stated, some of the items were indeed of little to nominal value (the Bosch platinum plus 4 plugs are junk and are known to lose electrode ends into the cylinder, which could very well ruin your engine - I have a set with less than 1,500 miles on them, if you really want them, just pay for shipping and they're yours).

And the police aren't going to give a rats ass - they're going to tell you that this is a civil matter and to contact an attorney.

So, last chance to receive my help to resolve this situation. Here's Bob's chance to prove that he's being decent by following my instructions, taking the pics, and posting them here. Adam should remain silent and stop contacting Bob. Once the pics are posted, we'll sort through the list and determine what's fair.

Or, you guys can continue with your bullshit and once again prove to everyone here how your both assholes.

The choice is yours guys - what's it going to be? Who's going to prove that they truly are the righteous party here?

If I see any bullshit other than what I specifically asked for from either side, then I'm done trying to help and you two can continue to completely ostracize yourselves from the members of this forum/community, as I honestly don't care.

Good day to you both.

That is well thought out and to the point... This could be simple to fix... I hope they can work it out...And I have old blown Craig Speakers if that helps.... lol

Craig

[NightFlyer]

Nightflyer, you can't post pics to things you don't have. You're welcome to wait, I know him well enough to know what he's doing. Ever wonder why he drags a situation like this out for so long? LOL

STOP IT - everything is out there already. You're only rehashing and repeating yourself now, which only acts to fan the flames of this fire.

Give Bob a chance to follow the instructions.

I think that 48 hours to take and get the pics posted is more than reasonable.

If I see any more bullshit in the mean time, then I'm done and you both can spend your time, money, and effort on court and legal fees - just realize that in the process of doing so, you'll both completely ostracize yourselves from this forum and community.

Just chill out and relax for a couple days. If Bob doesn't respond, then go ahead and proceed with whatever you want to do. But prove that you're truly interested in resolution by giving this an opportunity to work.

Not another peep about this for two days - OK?

[AdamKontras]

STOP IT - everything is out there already. You're only rehashing and repeating yourself now, which only acts to fan the flames of this fire.

Give Bob a chance to follow the instructions.

I think that 48 hours to take and get the pics posted is more than reasonable.

If I see any more bullshit in the mean time, then I'm done and you both can spend your time, money, and effort on court and legal fees - just realize that in the process of doing so, you'll both completely ostracize yourselves from this forum and community.

Just chill out and relax for a couple days. If Bob doesn't respond, then go ahead and proceed with whatever you want to do. But prove that you're truly interested in resolution by giving this an opportunity to work.

Not another peep about this for two days - OK?

:paranoid:

[Kane]

STOP IT - everything is out there already. You're only rehashing and repeating yourself now, which only acts to fan the flames of this fire.

Give Bob a chance to follow the instructions.

I think that 48 hours to take and get the pics posted is more than reasonable.

If I see any more bullshit in the mean time, then I'm done and you both can spend your time, money, and effort on court and legal fees - just realize that in the process of doing so, you'll both completely ostracize yourselves from this forum and community.

Just chill out and relax for a couple days. If Bob doesn't respond, then go ahead and proceed with whatever you want to do. But prove that you're truly interested in resolution by giving this an opportunity to work.

Not another peep about this for two days - OK?

How did you become the self-appointed savior of the common man? I don't think either one of them asked for you to help mediate. So threatening to withdraw your help (that was never asked for or accepted) is laughable.

[NightFlyer]

How did you become the self-appointed savior of the common man? I don't think either one of them asked for you to help mediate. So threatening to withdraw your help (that was never asked for or accepted) is laughable.

Never said I was.

They were publicly airing their grievances on the forum, thus if they weren't looking for a response or intervention from other forum members, they should have kept everything private and solely between themselves, right?

I merely proposed a reasonable approach to a solution and am offering to assist in arbitrating such (as there appears to be too much animosity between the two parties to work towards a mutually acceptable resolution without such third party intervention at this point). I'm not charging anything for my assistance in such a capacity. Thus, they can either try it, comply, and work towards resolution this way, or spend hundreds if not several thousands of dollars on court costs and attorney fees (as a business entity, Bob would need to retain legal counsel in order to properly defend the business against a properly filed legal action, whereas Adam can self represent, but would still bear court filing fees, service of process fees, motion fees, judgment enforcement fees, etc., not to mention would want an attorney that knew evidentiary procedure so as to preserve the admissibility of much of his alleged evidence against Bob).

They're more than free to continue their bullshit here and pump several hundred if not several thousands of dollar into the judicial process - I'm merely attempting to offer them an alternative to all that.

You find that laughable - so be it. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Cheers! :smile:

[videobob]

Adam, I was selling a spare tire and a set of rear loouvers.
I have over a dozen of each, all abandoned by previous owners after their conversions that all became my shop property after they didn't want them.
You didn't want them either.
Of course, the tires and louvers I was offering for sale were NOT YOURS, because yours are shit, they are cracked and broken and your spare was badly stained as was the rest of your trunk.
You are welcomed to come and get them.

The only other items I was selling were my DVD's and BTTF props.
Actually, I think that this PROVES that I didn't know I had your parts and had no intention of trying to sell them, because the DMC Flea Market would have been the perfect place to fence them!!!
You are trying so hard to find something, anything, to prove your point and it is soooooo pathetic.


Wow. From someone who attended last weekend's Delorean Car Show:


"not sure if this was included with your car originally but Bob was selling spare tires at the show. He was selling other parts to but I don't know what specifically. i'm sure you can verify this with someone else who attended, I really want to stay out of this."

Starting to understand why Bob doesn't wish to itemize these parts. Alright, is there anyone here who was at the car show that can verify that Bob was selling parts? Jesus this is disappointing. Yes the spare tire was included but I left it off the list because I had no way of transporting it back with my vehicle. All the other items would've fit easily inside the car. But it's getting more and more clear what happened here. I can't accuse him unless one of you is willing to admit you saw this... but this piece of information plus the fact that Bob refuses to tell me what items he has is getting awfully damning.

[videobob]

28422
As per requested, I dumped out the 2 totes of parts and photographed them for your inventory.
* With the exception of the previously shown bass speakers *
This is everything that we have, to my knowledge, that was not put back into the car upon delivery.
(not counting the original spare tire and the broken rear louvers)

Knock yourself out.

[videobob]

284232842528426
Here is a closer view

[videobob]

28424

Everything has been put into this sack, along with some other parts I found such as the keys and the shifter parts we removed.

Adam, you may do one of the two:

Call me on the phone and work out the details and if we can work nice like grown ups we will get this resolved.
Otherwise, if you continue to make this difficult I am going to put it on the curb, I will be nice enough to let you know it is on the curb so you can have someone come and pick it up for you.
That's the deal dude.
I want to be done with this and I want this evil bag of shit out of my life.

[AdamKontras]

Thanks! I've passed these pictures along to Greg the seller so he can help me cross reference the parts to the list as it's very difficult to itemize without being there. Once I hear from him we can finally start to move forward and you can ship me my items.

You mentioned the craig speakers being old and you threw them out, but the rear pioneer speakers (not the bass tubes) were indeed new... maybe they're in that box? If not, check some of the other boxes around the shop - I'm sure if your crew took such care to set these items aside, they did the same with the more expensive items (such as the car alarm, etc) Either way, I'll respond with the list as soon as I get a little help from Greg.

And if anyone else would like higher resolution pics to help the process, I'd appreciate it! PM me!

[videobob]

The good speakers were installed into the car and hooked up to your new radio,
yet again, something we did for you without charging you for it....
Just one of the many non-Time Machine related repairs we did to your shitbox car without getting paid because we are such nice guys.
So glad you are grateful for our hard work.
There was no "new" alarm system, there was an incomplete box with no remotes that was wired into the mess that was in the back of the car.
Again, something we had to fix for you, for FREE.... ungratefully.

[videobob]

Let's review my generosity...

This was your broken trunk with fiberglass damage and mold...
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10246245_457850044318786_2226871925221160157_n.jpg ?oh=2363c993656cf9641c4b1b345dbd5751&oe=541DD122

After we cleaned it, rebuilt some of the broken glass on the floor and reinforced it, made new panels and riveted them into place
and then repainted it for you....
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10320561_457850084318782_19791311826587422_n.jpg
No charge... your welcomed.


https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/10173594_457850057652118_1218085475099829849_n.jpg
This was your rear deck before we cleaned it up...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1010707_457850097652114_5315221572892782378_n.jpg? oh=3d608f92249b813482c11322faaae365&oe=540F1ECA&__gda__=1411768707_7de636f15d7e60fe3a6fbc2daae53b8 2
This is how it looked after we sanded it and repainted it for you.
Again, not part of my Time Machine conversion, this would normally be $110 per hour work, we did it for FREE.

https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t1.0-9/10247302_457850004318790_9069814949376718709_n.jpg
We also removed your cowl, cleaned out all the leaves and mold, repainted everything and reinstalled it.
We did the best we could with this cracked and brittle old plastic, again, FOR FREE.

Things not shown in the photos is how we installed the new speakers and re-wired your stereo system.
We had to also figure out why he had the fans and other things patched through wires, he had a rats nest of wires we had to sift
through for hours and we had to repair lots of little things for you to make sure the car would work for you.
The photos tell the story that we put more detail into your car than any other car we ever built for a customer.

You're Welcome.

[AdamKontras]

Thanks!

Yes, there are front speakers, I was actually talking about the rear pioneer speakers? I've taken apart a good amount of the inside of the car but did not see them... if they're there please tell me where and I'll take those off the list.

Also check for the floor mats. They came in with generic ones that were admittedly shitty, but he also included the original DMC ones. I'm sure your guys just put that aside. It would certainly blend in at the shop. Greg has responded but it will take him until tomorrow to be able to cross-reference the picture and the parts.

[AdamKontras]

Alright - just got the response from the seller, so glad we stayed in touch. Here's what he was able to make out from the pictures:


$199.98 - 2 Bass tubes (appears fine)
$120.14 - New Backlit, Electroluminescent Gauge cluster, LEDs (white envelope)
$56.97 - New 8mm spark wires (appears fine)
$49.94 - Original RPM relay as backup (appears fine)
$47.58 - New Coil for tune-up (appears fine)
$39.99 - New Horns (appears fine)
$34.88 - Spare Belts (appears fine)
$27.50 - New Cap (appears fine)
$27.44 - New O2 Sensor (appears fine)
$18.99 - New Fuel Pump Harness for alternative VW 909 Pump (appears fine)
$18.13 - New Bosch Platinum 4 prong plugs (appears fine)
$15.95 - New Rotor (appears fine)
$10.56 - New PCV Valve (appears fine)
$5.98 - Couple of Jumper Wires (appears fine)

Total $674.03

Here's what he could not make out, but said may just be under other items because they were all dumped on top of each other and we have to guess:


$9.95 - R134a Variable Orifice Tube (don't see, but small could be buried)
$9.95 - Radio Remote Control (don't see, but small could be buried)
$99.88 - Working original window switches (don't see, but small could be buried)

Total - $119.78

Here are the items that neither I, nor he (nor others who have been helping) could find:


$216.95 - Lilliput 8" touch screen navigation monitor (Had the item in Dallas, said it was outdated.)
$179.95 - New 2-Way Car Alarm, w/channels for trunk pop, lock/unlock, driver/dual door pop (don't see - it has it's own retail box.)
$159.99 - Rear Pioneer Speakers (don't see)
$149.50 - The good floor carpets (I have no-name generics on the floors) (The DeLorean carpets aren't in the floorwells?)
$140.00 - Working Original Craig Speakers Back (Admitted he had them, threw them out)
$108.39 - Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter (big metal part that goes under car...)
$70.00 - Working Original Craig Speakers Front (Admitted he had them, threw them out)
$63.07 - New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key (don't see, has it's own retail box)
$36.95 - Fire extinguisher (don't see)

Total - $1,124.80


Alright, for the sake of resolving this I will just assume the $119 worth of items that are small are in that pile since Bob is unwilling to itemize them. And as long as the other items are located, I will forego asking for compensation for the original working speakers craig speakers since Bob admitted he did indeed have them, but threw them out. The navigation monitor was the only item Bob admitted to not throwing out while in Dallas but made it sound like it was of no value and outdated. Talking with the seller, I'm fairly certain I can turn it into a rear-view mirror monitor so I would appreciate you including that in the shipment.

Thankfully remaining items should be very easy to spot! Bob, until you actually went up to storage you had no idea the trash bag even had my bass tubes in them so I'm fairly certain your crew didn't throw out the items above that were in their retail boxes and certainly not the original Delorean floor carpets. The car came with 2 sets of floor mats and I have none. Also the rear pioneer speakers were most likely taken out for the mod (understandable) but since they were only a few years old I'm sure your crew did not throw those out. At your earliest convenience if you could just take a look at your shop for the remaining 7 items we can finally move on! Though only 7 items, it would cost me close to $1000 to replace them, so I'm sure you understand why these items were valuable enough for me to have a a list emailed to you before you received the car so you knew of their whereabouts.

Big thank you to Greg for taking the time to not only search the photos, but to give me specific x/y co-ordinates on those photos (Delorean owners are the most anal people on the planet) so I know exactly what those parts are when I arrived. He has been incredibly detailed every step of the way with this purchase.

Look forward to your update Bob, glad this is finally coming together.

[NightFlyer]

OK, so we got a little more BS from both sides than I would have preferred, but all things considered, not too bad - and the best part is that we're seeing some actual progress here!

Adam - thanks for staying mostly quite and not further stirring the pot.

Bob - thanks for following the instructions and providing the photographs.

Now then, here's a 100% completely objective perspective from a completely independent third party that has no ties/relations to either of the feuding parties or the seller of the Bitcoin car (think of this analysis as how an impartial judge or jury would view the situation, as it's essentially what it represents):

1) As I originally stated, while the Bitcoin car was decent, it definitely wasn't without its faults/flaws. Adam has previously asserted that the car was 'perfect,' however, this just wasn't the case. As previously stated, I had two guys that I helped find their cars who were interested in that car, however, we passed simply upon my careful and detailed review of the photos provided and the write-up in the sales advertisement. It has also become abundantly clear that Adam doesn't really know what he's looking at when he looks at DeLoreans and DeLorean components, thus leaving one to wonder what his basis for comparison was when he asserted that the car was in fact 'perfect.' Bob's photos of the condition of the luggage compartment and rear pontoons positively confirm the analysis of the car that I provided to my guys. I'm not saying that it wasn't a decent car to begin with - only that it wasn't as great as the sales advertisement held it out as being, and that Adam really needs to come to terms with the reality of that situation.

2) Here's a rundown of Adam's list and what I can see from the pics provided by Bob:

New Coil - Present.

New 8mm spark wires - Present.

New Bosch Platinum 4 prong plugs - Present.

New Cap - Present.

New Rotor - Present.

New O2 Sensor - Present.

New PCV Valve - I'm confused by this one, as the PRV in the DeLorean doesn't use a traditional PCV valve (the cold start tube/calibrated nipple double as the vent for crankcase). Unless there was some sort of modification of the engine which didn't appear on any of the sales photos of the car, I'm inclined to believe that this never existed, and thus won't be awarding anything for this item if it's not already present.

Spare Belts - Present.

New Fuel Pump Harness for alternative VW 909 Pump - Present.

New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key - I see a couple lug nuts (hard to tell if an entire set is present, but let's assume that they are).

Working original window switches - Present (although who knows if they're really working or not - the Torrix switches are quite flaky).

Original RPM relay as backup - Present (although hard to tell if it's really a stock/OEM one as asserted by Adam).

Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter - I'm confused by this one, as the accumulator is located in a cubby in the frame, but is otherwise NOT covered by anything, and the fuel filter is bolted to the frame with a bracket, but is otherwise NOT covered by anything (although some incorrectly assert that the driver's side TAB shield/air deflector covers the filter, it really doesn't). Thus, I'm not awarding anything for this item if it's not otherwise present.

Reproduction Owners Manual - Appears to be present (no reason why Bob would withhold a reproduction while returning other documentation that is pictured, thus I'm assuming that it's there, or at least whatever the Bitcoin seller was calling a reproduction owner's manual anyway).

The good floor carpets (I have no-name generics on the floors) - Not sure what you mean by this - the actual carpet or floormats, as juke backed floormats were dealer option items and not all original buyers purchased the optional floor mats, thus not sure why you're assuming that your car should have them, nor do I recall seeing them in the original sales material of the Bitcoin car. Thus, without further explanation and empirical evidence of their existence, I'm not inclined to award anything for this item if it's not otherwise present (either in the car or in the pile that Bob has).

R134a Variable Orifice Tube (current system is R12) - Appears to be present.

Working original Craig radio - It's in the car.

Working Original Craig Speakers Front - First off, how do we know that the original Craig speakers were working? Given the condition of the car, I'm willing to bet that the original Craig speakers had surround rot at a minimum and the paper cones could have been compromised as well. While rare, the magnets/voice coils could have been melted/fused/blown, in which case, the speakers are worthless (other than as paperweights). To most, when they're in such a condition where the surrounds/cone have merely suffered rot, they're not worth restoring, and are thus tossed, as Bob asserted he did with them. The only real value they'd have would be to a concours guy, and even then, there are enough decent condition and NOS ones out there, that Adam would realistically never be able to unload them to a concours guy for anything more than the cost of shipping. I'll put a nominal value of $3/each on them, if Adam feels so entitled, but as Adam's car is definitely not concours, he'd have a hard time getting a court to award even that much for these items. Personally, I'd let this one go and chalk it up as being Adam's own fault for not explicitly directing Bob to keep them as part of his time machine conversion, if Adam truly values them as much as he's now appearing to. The fact that Adam was willing to surrender the much more valuable spare tire and louver to Bob's ownership/possession, but is now freaking out about the Craig speakers, also leaves Adam's motive on this item to be highly suspect. A judge/jury probably wouldn't award anything on these items.

Working Original Craig Speakers Back - See above, as the same applies.

Couple of Jumper Wires - Present.

Radio Remote Control - Not seeing one per say, but that doesn't mean that it isn't in there (or possibly in the car).

$36.95 Fire extinguisher - Definitely no fire extinguisher pictured. If it's not in the car, I'll award the full $36.95 requested.

New Backlit, Electroluminescent Gauge cluster, LEDs - Not sure exactly what this is or what it's used for. I'm not sure why the car would come with this (if it was for the stock gauges, it would have to be a custom piece of some sort and thus the price estimate isn't even close, but if it's for aftermarket gauges of some sort, then the price estimate is probably way too high). If Adam can't provide more detailed info and empirical evidence of its existence, then I'm not inclined to award anything for this item if it otherwise isn't present (either in the car or in the pile that Bob has).

Rear Pioneer Speakers - Bob asserts that he installed these in Adam's car. Simple way to find out - if Adam has rear speakers when using the car's audio system, then they're in there.

2 Bass tubes - Present

New 2-Way Car Alarm, with channels for trunk pop, lock/unlock, driver door pop, dual door pop - Bob asserted that the alarm was old (not new), partially installed, and had missing parts, and thus was removed when your conversion was done. Usually, alarms in DeLoreans = bad news and one of the first things a new owner would do is eliminate such alarms from the car's wiring. Given the condition of the car, I'm inclined to believe Bob on this and thus won't be awarding anything for this item, unless Adam has empirical evidence that proves otherwise.

New Horns - Present

Note that there are several other items present that were not included in Adam's itemized list.

3) Based on what we can see, and with the explanations that I offered above, the only thing that Adam would stand to be awarded for by a court would be the amount sought for the missing fire extinguisher (assuming that it's not already present in the car). Thus, if it came down to it, you guys would be going to court (and expending the fees/costs/expenses required by such) over a matter of a lousy $36. Quite frankly, with such a nominal amount on the line, the judge would be more than likely to toss the case on mere technicalities before even reviewing the merits of such (seeing the case as being little more than a waste of the court's time and resources).

CONCLUSION:

Here's what I'd do if I were in the shoes of both sides:

If I were BOB, I'd have one of my guys box up the stuff (nothing fancy, but enough to assure that everything would arrive in one piece) and ship it out to Adam at the slowest/cheapest USPS rate possible that provides tracking and signature verification services.

If I were ADAM, I'd accept the return of such property, consider my business with Bob to be complete, and move on with my life.

I sincerely hope that both Adam and Bob review the analysis that I've prepared above, actually think about it, and agree amongst themselves to abide by the parameters and course of actions that I've laid out in the conclusion.

Best of luck to both sides, and I hope that you two get this issue resolved and put to bed just as soon as possible, as the only thing preventing such at this point would be one of you two being unreasonable.

The ball's in your court guys - get it done.

[NightFlyer]

Just saw Adam's follow up and noticed this item that was not included in the list that I copied:

Lilliput 8" touch screen navigation monitor - Does not appear to be present. Used examples sell on eBay/Amazon for anywhere from $50-$150. Bob previously confirmed the existence of this item, thus if it's not present, I'll award a value of $100 for it.

Combined with the value of the fire extinguisher, unless Adam has empirical evidence of the items I questioned, the total cash award in Adam's favor, together with the return of his property, stands at $136.95.

Unless Bob fully accepts Adam's revised claim, I'll wait to see what evidence Adam can produce in support of the remainder of his revised claim for a cash award of an additional $660.90 before recommending an action upon a settlement.

[videobob]

$216.95 - Lilliput 8" touch screen navigation monitor (Had the item in Dallas, said it was outdated.)
(This was non working, had scratch on the screen, we tossed it)

$179.95 - New 2-Way Car Alarm, w/channels for trunk pop, lock/unlock, driver/dual door pop (don't see - it has it's own retail box.)
(Never seen this - doesn't exist)

$159.99 - Rear Pioneer Speakers (don't see)
(If the owner didn't install them into the car, then they don't exist, we only had the old Craigs)

$149.50 - The good floor carpets (I have no-name generics on the floors) (The DeLorean carpets aren't in the floorwells?)
(Whatever carpets that are in the car are what were in the car, we have no other carpets)

$140.00 - Working Original Craig Speakers Back (Admitted he had them, threw them out)
(Speakers were shit - tossed in the trash)

$108.39 - Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter (big metal part that goes under car...)
(If they are not on the car, then we don't have them, we never removed them and we didn't put them on, we don't have them)

$70.00 - Working Original Craig Speakers Front (Admitted he had them, threw them out)
(non working, blown cones you could poke a finger through)

$63.07 - New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key (don't see, has it's own retail box)
(If they are not on your wheels, we don't have them, I only use factory originals on my cars)

$36.95 - Fire extinguisher (don't see)
(It was flat, empty, more than 5 years old, expired date, it was tossed, get a new one)

[videobob]

Nightflyer, who are you exactly?
I mean, what is your name and do I know you?


Just saw Adam's follow up and noticed this item that was not included in the list that I copied:

Lilliput 8" touch screen navigation monitor - Does not appear to be present. Used examples sell on eBay/Amazon for anywhere from $50-$150. Bob previously confirmed the existence of this item, thus if it's not present, I'll award a value of $100 for it.

Combined with the value of the fire extinguisher, unless Adam has empirical evidence of the items I questioned, the total cash award in Adam's favor, together with the return of his property, stands at $136.95.

Unless Bob fully accepts Adam's revised claim, I'll wait to see what evidence Adam can produce in support of the remainder of his revised claim for a cash award of an additional $660.90 before recommending an action upon a settlement.

[AdamKontras]

Bob,

Every time I ask you to go physically look in your shop you have returned with new items. Your text from 2 nights ago for example:

"I found this trash bag that I did not recognize so I opened it. inside are your two bass speakers I had absolutely no idea these were there."

It is clear your crew placed these items in boxes or bags and put them in storage in your shop. A simple misunderstanding, I'm sure. Considering we've gone from having NONE of my items, to you finding this list:


$199.98 - 2 Bass tubes (appears fine)
$120.14 - New Backlit, Electroluminescent Gauge cluster, LEDs (white envelope)
$56.97 - New 8mm spark wires (appears fine)
$49.94 - Original RPM relay as backup (appears fine)
$47.58 - New Coil for tune-up (appears fine)
$39.99 - New Horns (appears fine)
$34.88 - Spare Belts (appears fine)
$27.50 - New Cap (appears fine)
$27.44 - New O2 Sensor (appears fine)
$18.99 - New Fuel Pump Harness for alternative VW 909 Pump (appears fine)
$18.13 - New Bosch Platinum 4 prong plugs (appears fine)
$15.95 - New Rotor (appears fine)
$10.56 - New PCV Valve (appears fine)
$5.98 - Couple of Jumper Wires (appears fine)

Total $674.03

I'm certain if you just have them look, you will find the remainder of the items. These are not small items, there is no reason to believe they were thrown away unless you have previously told me "I had them and threw them away." Those items are now:


$140.00 - Working Original Craig Speakers Back (Admitted he had them, threw them out)
$70.00 - Working Original Craig Speakers Front (Admitted he had them, threw them out)
$129.00 - Lilliput 8" touch screen navigation monitor (Admitted he had it, threw it out)

Total $339.00
(if anyone can find a cheaper replacement cost for the lilliput, please link me. I didn't include it in my previous list because Bob had already admitted he threw it out. Felt it better to document that even though it no longer exists)

We are only left with the whereabouts of these final items. I've included their locations on arrival from the email Bob received before he got the car:

$179.95 - New 2-Way Car Alarm, w/channels for trunk pop, lock/unlock, driver/dual door pop (in it's own retail box in trunk)
$159.99 - Rear Pioneer Speakers (installed in car when it arrived, removed for modification)
$149.50 - The good floor carpets (no-name generics on the floors, original DMC's were in the trunk - I have none)
$108.39 - Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter (metal part that goes under the car - was in the passenger floorwell on delivery)
$63.07 - New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key (In it's own retail box, in the trunk)
$36.95 - Fire extinguisher (storage compartment behind driver's seat)

Total - $697.85

Bob, again, every time I ask you to go physically look in your shop you have returned with new items. Your text from 2 nights ago for example:

"I found this trash bag that I did not recognize so I opened it. inside are your two bass speakers I had absolutely no idea these were there."

It is clear your crew placed these items in boxes or bags and put them in storage in your shop. At your earliest convenience, please ask your employees where they might have put these items so we can resolve this matter.

[AdamKontras]

(Revised, had items out of place and not fully documented. Very difficult to do with a picture of the items thrown on the ground)

Bob,

Every time I ask you to go physically look in your shop you have returned with new items. Your text from 2 nights ago for example:

"I found this trash bag that I did not recognize so I opened it. inside are your two bass speakers I had absolutely no idea these were there."

It is clear your crew placed these items in boxes or bags and put them in storage in your shop. A simple misunderstanding, I'm sure. Considering we've gone from having NONE of my items, to you finding this list:


$199.98 - 2 Bass tubes (appears fine)
$120.14 - New Backlit, Electroluminescent Gauge cluster, LEDs (white envelope)
$56.97 - New 8mm spark wires (appears fine)
$49.94 - Original RPM relay as backup (appears fine)
$47.58 - New Coil for tune-up (appears fine)
$39.99 - New Horns (appears fine)
$34.88 - Spare Belts (appears fine)
$27.50 - New Cap (appears fine)
$27.44 - New O2 Sensor (appears fine)
$18.99 - New Fuel Pump Harness for alternative VW 909 Pump (appears fine)
$18.13 - New Bosch Platinum 4 prong plugs (appears fine)
$15.95 - New Rotor (appears fine)
$10.56 - New PCV Valve (appears fine)
$5.98 - Couple of Jumper Wires (appears fine)

Total $674.03

I'm certain if you just have them look, you will find the remainder of the items. These are not small items, there is no reason to believe they were thrown away unless you have previously told me "I had them and threw them away." Those items are now:


$140.00 - Working Original Craig Speakers Back (Admitted he had them, threw them out)
$129.00 - Lilliput 8" touch screen navigation monitor (Admitted he had it, threw it out)
$70.00 - Working Original Craig Speakers Front (Admitted he had them, threw them out)
$36.95 - Fire extinguisher (Admitted he had it, threw it out)

Total $375.95
(if anyone can find a cheaper replacement cost for the lilliput, please link me. I didn't include it in my previous list because Bob had already admitted he threw it out. Felt it better to document that even though it no longer exists)

There are also the items that we cannot find, but both the seller and I believe they could be in the pile that was thrown in the street. In an effort to resolve this since Bob will not do a clear inventory, we'll just let these go:


$9.95 - R134a Variable Orifice Tube (current system is R12)
$99.88 - Working original window switches

Total - $109.83

We are only left with the whereabouts of these final items. I've included their locations on arrival from the email Bob received before he got the car:


$179.95 - New 2-Way Car Alarm, w/channels for trunk pop, lock/unlock, driver/dual door pop (in it's own retail box in trunk)
$159.99 - Rear Pioneer Speakers (installed in car when it arrived, removed for modification)
$149.50 - The good floor carpets (no-name generics on the floors, original DMC's were in the trunk - I have none)
$108.39 - Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter (metal part that goes under the car - was in the passenger floorwell on delivery)
$63.07 - New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key (In it's own retail box, in the trunk)
$9.95 - Radio Remote Control (Admitted to having, said he would ship - cannot see it in any pics)

Total - $670.85

Bob, again, every time I ask you to go physically look in your shop you have returned with new items. Your text from 2 nights ago for example:

"I found this trash bag that I did not recognize so I opened it. inside are your two bass speakers I had absolutely no idea these were there."

It is clear your crew placed these items in boxes or bags and put them in storage in your shop. At your earliest convenience, please ask your employees where they might have put these items so we can resolve this matter.

[NightFlyer]

Nightflyer, who are you exactly?
I mean, what is your name and do I know you?

My name is Josh and we've never met, nor have we had any interactions that I'm aware of.

I'm simply trying to help you two out and avoid making this situation bigger than what it needs to be.

If you don't want any assistance, that's fine, and I'll gladly butt out upon a request to do so, but the public manner in which you two are hashing out the situation invited such outside intervention.

You'll note that I'm being nothing but fair, impartial, and 100% objective.

[Kane]

If you don't want any assistance, that's fine, and I'll gladly butt out upon a request to do so

Sounds like they're not looking for your help.

[NightFlyer]

In a court situation, Adam would bear the burden of proving his claims beyond a preponderance of the evidence (>50% of the evidence would have to support and favor the claims he's making against Bob). If Adam fails to meet such a burden, then the court will no-cause his claims.

As both sides have responded since the examination of the photos of the property located by Bob, I'll provide an analysis of where the situation currently stands in regards to the remaining alleged items that are still allegedly missing and provide my recommendations to the parties.

Again, Adam has to understand that he is NOT entitled to replacement value of the alleged items that are still allegedly missing, but rather only to the value of that which he has actually lost if such items aren't ultimately returned, provided that he has the evidence to support his claims to the threshold of his burden.

So, let's go through the list of remaining disputed items, taking into account the responses from both sides:

New 2-Way Car Alarm, w/channels for trunk pop, lock/unlock, driver/dual door pop (in it's own retail box in trunk)

Bob is stating that this didn't exist. Adam claims that it did. I'll presume that Adam will have the testimony (or affidavit) of the Bitcoin seller to back up his claim. I'll also presume that Bob will have the testimony of his entire crew to back up his assertion that it didn't exist. Thus, all we have is testimony vs testimony, or 50/50, but Adam needs greater than 50% of the evidence to meet the burden of sustaining his claim. However, there are some inconsistencies in Bob's story, as something was previously mentioned about an incomplete alarm being partially installed and un-installed and tossed by his people. Thus, I'm led to believe that some sort an alarm did in fact exist, however, I don't believe that it was brand new, but rather used. As used alarms and DeLoreans usually = trouble/un-desireable, I can only see a nominal value here. Thus, I'll award $50 for the missing alarm.

Rear Pioneer Speakers (installed in car when it arrived, removed for modification)

First and foremost, as these were allegedly installed in the car by the Bitcoin seller by the plaintiff's own admission, they are USED items, and Adam would only be entitled to the value as such items existed, and NOT to the new replacement value that he's claiming. Bob is claiming that they never existed, and that only the old Craigs were present. From an evidentiary perspective, it's the same situation as with the alarm, and there appears to be some inconsistencies in Bob's story, as something was previously mentioned about how his people installed these speakers in the car in place of the original Craigs. Thus, I'm led to believe that these speakers did exist, but that they were in fact used and not new. Where they are now is anyone's guess, but that's outside the scope of resolution. A quick search on eBay/Craigslist shows used Pioneer coaxials to sell for an average of $38/pair. Thus, I'll award $38 for the missing speakers.

The good floor carpets (no-name generics on the floors, original DMC's were in the trunk - I have none)

From an evidentiary perspective, we have two completely different stories that have remained consistent throughout. Thus, unless Adam can produce some empirical evidence to support his claim (ie photos of the floormats in the car), then he hasn't met his burden of proof on this claim. As it stands, without additional evidence, this claim is no-caused and no award is issued.

Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter (metal part that goes under the car - was in the passenger floorwell on delivery)

As I previously explained, this is NOT a stock part, nor would it even be feasible for a single panel to cover both the accumulator and the fuel filter, unless the car was highly modified and this piece was custom fabricated for such modifications. It's also suspicious as to why such a piece wouldn't have been installed on the car upon delivery from the Bitcoin seller, but rather left in the passenger floorwell. From an evidentiary perspective, we have two completely different stories that have remained consistent throughout. Thus, unless Adam can produce some empirical evidence (even more than for the floormats, as this piece just doesn't make sense) to support his claim (ie photos of this panel installed on the car, receipts from the material(s) used to construct it, etc), then he hasn't met his burden of proof on this claim. As it stands, without additional evidence, this claim is no-caused and no award is issued.

New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key (In it's own retail box, in the trunk)

I'm pretty sure that I see two lug nuts in a bag in the photos provided by Bob. Definitely not an entire set though. I'm also not sure how an optionally locking lug nut set would even work, as the concept just doesn't make sense to me. From an evidentiary perspective, we have two completely different stories that have remained consistent throughout. Thus, unless Adam can produce some empirical evidence to support his claim (ie photos of the lugnut set in the car), then he hasn't met his burden of proof on this claim. As it stands, without additional evidence, this claim is no-caused and no award is issued.

Fire extinguisher (storage compartment behind driver's seat)

Here, we have both sides agreeing that this item did in fact exist. Bob claims that it was outdated, wouldn't hold a charge, and thus was tossed. Unless Adam can produce empirical evidence showing otherwise, I'm inclined to believe Bob's assertions here. That said, empty steel cylinders still have a nominal value, as the seals can be replaced and the apparatus recharged to a functional condition. Certain states prevent the lawful reconditioning of old fire extinguishers, however, it would still have a nominal scrap value. Thus, I'll award $10 for this item, which is a reduction from my previous award.

Lilliput 8" touch screen navigation monitor (Admitted he had it, threw it out)

Again, we have both sides agreeing to the existence of this item. Bob claims that it was damaged and didn't work, thus it was tossed. While Adam would ordinarily need additional evidence to support his claim here, I'm employing the equitable nature and experience/instincts of the trier of fact to compel me to conclude that even if the device was in the condition claimed by Bob, it's an expensive enough item that you just wouldn't throw it out, but rather let the owner do so of his own accord - especially seeing as how there was some previous discussion about this item between the parties. As Adam bears the burden of proof, but is unable to prove that it was in fact working and in good condition, I'm going to revise my initial award (which was premised upon a working used unit) downward to the value of a salvage unit. Thus, without further empirical evidence proving that the unit was functional, I'll award $45 for this item.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

Based on what has been presented to the forum, I recommend the following resolution of this situation:

Bob should have one of his guys box up the stuff (nothing fancy, but enough to assure that everything would arrive in one piece) and ship it out to Adam at the slowest/cheapest USPS rate possible that provides tracking and signature verification services. In addition to doing this, Bob should also issue Adam a refund in the amount of $143 (including it in the form of a USPS money order made payable to Adam and sent with the items being returned would work perfectly).

Adam should accept the return of such property and the refund of $143, consider his business with Bob to be complete, and move on with his life.

Both parties should learn from the experience and adjust their practices accordingly so that such a situation does not happen to either of them ever again.

Both parties screwed up here. Neither party is getting everything that they want in this proposed settlement. However, I assure you that the proposed settlement is 100% fair, impartial, equitable, and wholly objective premised upon the information that both sides have provided on the forum.

I sincerely hope that both Adam and Bob review the analysis that I've prepared above, actually think about it, and agree amongst themselves to abide by the parameters and course of actions that I've laid out here.

Best of luck to both sides, and I hope that you two get this issue resolved and put to bed just as soon as possible, as the only thing preventing such at this point would be one of you two being unreasonable.

Or, you can waste your time, money, effort, and resources pursing this matter further in court. About the only guarantee that I can make in pursing such a path is that doing so won't be worth it to either of you.

The ball's in your court guys - get it done.

[NightFlyer]

Sounds like they're not looking for your help.

That's fine - I did as I said I would do and I'm now done with this thread.

[Michael]

Sounds like they're not looking for your help.

I think the only one that has a problem with Josh's assistance is you.

[Silverbullet]

I think the only one that has a problem with Josh's assistance is you.

like you I must have missed where either party said they did not want the help.... I think Josh did a great job being fair as he has no dog in this fight. Both parties will do way better to do what Josh suggested, as it would just cost more time and money to have a Judge tell them the same thing.

My .o2

Craig

[videobob]

Adam, I also want to add that after speaking with my lawyer buddy, that all of this stuff became my defacto property by omission when you failed to properly inquire about it,
You failed to bring up this list upon inspection and failed to take any of it with you when we concluded our business.
You had this inventory list in your possession, yet you did nothing about it.
You did ask about some of it and I did say "I think it was trash and we threw it out", you were satisfied with that answer and you did not
inquire about it again, you did not provide the list and you did not make an argument about it.
If you had, we could have settled up on at that time here at my shop at the time of purchase.
You had every opportunity when you were here inspecting the car and the finalizing the purchase and wiring me the money to take care of this inventory.
Furthermore, you stayed with me at my house for an additional several days and had tons of time to review your purchase and at no time was it brought up.
So, much like other items removed from the car such as the rear glass, the rear louvers, spare tire and etc., these items became discarded debris in the conversion process.
I had no interest in these items, so little in fact, that they were put in trash bags and put away.
You however, the entire time, had this email with a detailed list of contents, of which at no time did you request to go through and inventory this list.
Now, over a month later you bring it up and wage this ridiculous war on me?
Bottom line, legally, I don't owe you anything.
It's my property and there is nothing you can do it about it legally or civilly.
I am willing to let you have it simply because I don't want the stuff and I want to shut you up about it.
However, no matter your opinion or decision, will I NOT pay you any cash difference or incur any costs associated with this in any way, not after the way you have treated me.
I will box it up for you and ship it if you pay for the shipping.
It has become clear to me that you are not a man of your word, that you will do whatever you want and say what you want no matter
what I do to try to please you.
I have already gone far and beyond what I normally do for any customer to try to please you.
I have given you discounts, I have built your car on an impossible deadline,
(2 weeks, 5 weeks, whatever, it was faster than anyone else could have done it!)
I gave you tons of free body/electrical work,
I gave you our best props and maximum details above our normal conversions,
I have shuttled you around the city back and fourth to the airport,
I have put you up in my home, fed you, pampered you.... everything but wiped your ass.
I did everything I agreed to do for you and MORE.
This disgusting, greedy and ungrateful display make me sick to a level I can't describe.
Although there may have been a misunderstanding about the parts, their whereabouts and such, the way you have tried to publicly vilify me over it
is totally unacceptable.

I will accept nothing less than the following:
* An Apology in a phone call.
* You pay shipping.
* You never mention this again.

I'm not interested in continuing this conversation and I will avoid looking at or responding to this thread.
I will take your call if you choose to do so.
Otherwise, this stuff will end up in the Dallas landfill soon.

[thirdmanj]

Stay classy, Bob.

[NightFlyer]

Adam, I also want to add that after speaking with my lawyer buddy, that all of this stuff became my defacto property by omission when you failed to properly inquire about it

While you're certainly free to do as you please, I just want to point out that you may have received some bad legal advice from your buddy.

By your own admission, he complained within 30 days (one month) which is well within any statute of limitation that I'm aware of, as well any court's application of the equitable doctrine of laches. You also never disputed the fact that you took delivery of the car knowing that it contained several spare/additional parts, thus creating a fiduciary duty to either use those parts in your build or ultimately deliver them to the buyer (Adam).

Whether or not Adam was aware of your shop's policy regarding unclaimed merchandise being surrendered to the ownership of the shop after a certain time frame had elapsed is a question of fact that must be established/proven by you in court as an affirmative defense. Unless that policy was also contained within a signed contract, good luck establishing such to the satisfaction of a court.

Both of you have handled the situation deplorably, with the rants, videos of phone conversations being posted to YouTube, public blogs meant to harass and intimidate, etc. IMHO, it's best to look beyond all that crap now and just get this situation resolved to a mutual satisfaction.

But this is your deal - proceed as you wish.

I won't be interjecting further, unless requested.

[AdamKontras]

Let's review what Bob has admitted to in this thread:

His staff took all of the parts that I had listed and emailed to him before he received the car and put them in boxes and garbage bags, stored out of sight before I got to Dallas.

I asked about them twice in Dallas and Bob admits he mistakenly told me they were 'trash' and thrown away.

When I got my car home I contacted the seller who assured me that they were not only not trash, most items were new and in the original package.

I confront Bob saying I do not believe he threw anything out and only after filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau did he tell me "good news! We found a box I didn't know about!"

After more pressure he texts me: "I found this trash bag that I did not recognize so I opened it. inside are your two bass speakers. I had absolutely no idea that these were there."

And this is how he treats me, the customer, because I had the audacity to not take his word that he threw the items out.

Again, not opinion, these are the facts Bob has agreed actually happened in this thread.

Wow.

[thirdmanj]

Personally, I liked the phone message. Something about it just exudes professionalism and business savvy. Managers and small business owners around the country would do well to take a few lessons from Bob on how to appropriately communicate with customers.

[acaciolo]

I've been watching this thread for a while, and I feel I need to send Bob a thanks. I own a pool building company that is ranked #3/12,500 pool builders in the USA for customer service and satisfaction. I also own a home building company that is ranked #1 in the PA. Because of my 20 years with a perfect record of customer satisfaction, I've been asked to speak to many groups about customer service and how to develop "raving fans" and ensure 100% customer satisfaction, no matter what.

I don't mean this sarcastically, but I am going to print out this entire thread and use it as an example of how NOT to ever ever ever handle a situation. So many cliche's come to mind

Win the battle but lose the war
Penny wise pound foolish
etc.

Bob, as a new member to the Delorean community, I've been extremely happy with the help i've received from forum members and vendors such as DPI, Grady, and DMCMW. Those guys (and gals) know how to please customers. And what i've seen on this forum has impacted where I send my business.

For example, we also own a retro 1950's ice cream shop that my wife runs. After coming back from DCS, I told her it would be fun to get a BTTF car to put at our shop and make it even more of a destination. I found this thread when I was searching for reviews on BTTF vendors. And no matter what the facts are, or how much of a tool Adam may be (sorry adam...don't know you.)...you're confrontational and aggressive behavior is truly one of the best examples I've ever seen of bad customer service.

On a $35k job with great visibility, I can't believe you have taken such a firm stance over a few hundred bucks. I can tell you for certain, after reading how you handled this and your obvious concern about proving yourself right, I'd never do business with you.

Maybe you are so wealthy you don't care about your reputation and making customers 100% happy. But you certainly seem to be wanting to fight rather than resolve this. Wouldn't giving up a few hundred bucks of profit to avoid all this negative publicity be worth it? You certainly can win the battle here, but you lost the war when you got confrontational.

take a step back and chill out. put this issue behind you and move on. or...keep fighting and give me more material for my presentations!

no offense meant, btw. You have a right to treat customers however you wish. I just couldn't help but chime in since I teach people to do exactly the opposite of everything you've done.

ps. we did meet briefly at the show. I complimented you on your amazing work.

tony c
3886

[videobob]

Tony, did you read the part where from the very beginning I begged Adam to call me and work this out?
Did you read the part where I told him I would immediately send him the stuff, no questions asked?
I was ready to take it to the post office and ship it to him but he refused to give me his address or accept it.
He chose internet terrorism and for what reason I can't figure out.
I am not wealthy, I'm a man who works hard for a living and I don't like being accused of things I didn't do.
I never stole anything from this guy nor did I bring this fight here.
I have offered REPEATEDLY to resolve the situation, again and again he refuses.
So WHAT DO YOU DO when you have to deal with a totally insane and unreasonable customer who's only real goal is to make you look bad?
He doesn't want a resolution, because NOTHING I have offered him pleases him.
SO tell me, how do you handle something like that?
Teach me, please...
Let's say you put in a pool for someone and instead of coming to you with a problem they go to a public website of your peers to complain that you are a "thief".
You offer to do whatever the customer asks of you, but they refuse, they only insist on bashing you and will not take any resolution you offer.
What do you do about that?



I've been watching this thread for a while, and I feel I need to send Bob a thanks. I own a pool building company that is ranked #3/12,500 pool builders in the USA for customer service and satisfaction. I also own a home building company that is ranked #1 in the PA. Because of my 20 years with a perfect record of customer satisfaction, I've been asked to speak to many groups about customer service and how to develop "raving fans" and ensure 100% customer satisfaction, no matter what.

I don't mean this sarcastically, but I am going to print out this entire thread and use it as an example of how NOT to ever ever ever handle a situation. So many cliche's come to mind

Win the battle but lose the war
Penny wise pound foolish
etc.

Bob, as a new member to the Delorean community, I've been extremely happy with the help i've received from forum members and vendors such as DPI, Grady, and DMCMW. Those guys (and gals) know how to please customers. And what i've seen on this forum has impacted where I send my business.

For example, we also own a retro 1950's ice cream shop that my wife runs. After coming back from DCS, I told her it would be fun to get a BTTF car to put at our shop and make it even more of a destination. I found this thread when I was searching for reviews on BTTF vendors. And no matter what the facts are, or how much of a tool Adam may be (sorry adam...don't know you.)...you're confrontational and aggressive behavior is truly one of the best examples I've ever seen of bad customer service.

On a $35k job with great visibility, I can't believe you have taken such a firm stance over a few hundred bucks. I can tell you for certain, after reading how you handled this and your obvious concern about proving yourself right, I'd never do business with you.

Maybe you are so wealthy you don't care about your reputation and making customers 100% happy. But you certainly seem to be wanting to fight rather than resolve this. Wouldn't giving up a few hundred bucks of profit to avoid all this negative publicity be worth it? You certainly can win the battle here, but you lost the war when you got confrontational.

take a step back and chill out. put this issue behind you and move on. or...keep fighting and give me more material for my presentations!

no offense meant, btw. You have a right to treat customers however you wish. I just couldn't help but chime in since I teach people to do exactly the opposite of everything you've done.

ps. we did meet briefly at the show. I complimented you on your amazing work.

tony c
3886

[NightFlyer]

You offer to do whatever the customer asks of you, but they refuse, they only insist on bashing you and will not take any resolution you offer.
What do you do about that?

You drop the BS (forget it, it's in the past), and you state here publicly that a wholly impartial and objective third party looked at the facts, performed a thoughtful, fair, and logical analysis, and rendered a decision based on the relevant/pertinent evidence/facts as they were presented by both of you, just as a judge/jury would do (if not far more thoughtful than any judge/jury would do), and that you're willing to accept and abide by the terms of the settlement proposed by that arbiter.

This has the effect of making you look reasonable and fair, and places pressure on Adam to do the same (as to reject such a proposed settlement would make him look wholly unreasonable, which would also strengthen the validity of your contentions that there's some ulterior motive behind his methodology in all this), thus leading to a swift resolution of the situation for both of you.

But you didn't do that.... instead we got a rant and counter demands from you that you already know Adam is unwilling to accept. Where's the logic in that?

Put your pride aside, take a step back, and be a smart business person...

[mr2nut123]

Does anyone else just see "blah blah blah" across most pages? I think there's a problem with the code on this topic...

You should have bought a time machine from Bruce or Temporal. You try and find one single report of this kind of shite with Bruce anywhere. You won't, he's a top bloke, honest, and far more detailed especially in the electronics side.

Accept that you didn't do your homework and check sites like Therpf and here. A harsh lesson in life. I feel real sorry for you dude, and can only hope this thread helps prevent another victim of Video Butthead.

If he threatens you again, just call him a big bald loser. He'll go cry himself to sleep with his glue gun in his empty house.

[acaciolo]

yeah... what nightflyer said.

I wondered if you were really going to do what you quote below said about not responding or looking at this thread.

btw, nice ending by threatening to thow his stuff is the landfill.

what would I do? I would have never gotten into a situation like this. because I am never confrontational with customers and do what ever it takes, no matter what, to keep them happy, 20 years and about 500 houses and pools built with never one bad review proves my theory.

even the drunk customer that called me a dumb WOP ended up happy (even though I wanted to smack him.)

do the right thing.





I'm not interested in continuing this conversation and I will avoid looking at or responding to this thread.
I will take your call if you choose to do so.
Otherwise, this stuff will end up in the Dallas landfill soon.

[NightFlyer]

I know that Adam has been lurking this thread since his last post.

Adam could just as easily post on here that he reviewed the analysis and is willing to accept the terms of the proposed settlement, which would then force Bob's hand in either accepting it as well, or making him look to be the unreasonable party for rejecting it, but he has also failed to respond in such a fashion.

The first person to step up and do the proper thing here is the one who's going to look most righteous...

Remember - at this point, you both look like assholes, so here's a chance at a little redemption.

Or you guys can continue to piss, moan, and revel in your own pride/egos and see how far that gets you - just saying....

[videobob]

For the millionth time...

Adam, give me your address.
I will send you your box o stuff.
Can we just agree to write off the few items that are missing, accept they are at a loss,
consider the nice things I did do for you for free and consider those things making up for the few
things that got lost and thrown away and be done with this?
That's what I offered all along but you have held my feet to the coals about every little thing.
I swear, I'm not trying to rip you off, never was, never did....
but like you, I have an ego and pride and I don't like being challenged or insulted.
Can we truce and end this already?
I can't MAKE you do anything, but I will simply ASK you to accept this stuff and please
stop your bash fest on me with your website and on here.

Look dude, you're at Bob's Big Boy tonight with the coolest car there and you know it.
You also know that you have the best replica Time Machine for miles....
Doesn't that mean anything?
That car has changed your life, just like I said it would.
That's worth something more than some used car parts.

I just want this thing over with.
Fair?

[thirdmanj]

For the millionth time...

I have an ego...

Well said.

[AdamKontras]

For the millionth time...

Adam, give me your address.
I will send you your box o stuff.
Can we just agree to write off the few items that are missing, accept they are at a loss,
consider the nice things I did do for you for free and consider those things making up for the few
things that got lost and thrown away and be done with this?
That's what I offered all along but you have held my feet to the coals about every little thing.
I swear, I'm not trying to rip you off, never was, never did....
but like you, I have an ego and pride and I don't like being challenged or insulted.
Can we truce and end this already?
I can't MAKE you do anything, but I will simply ASK you to accept this stuff and please
stop your bash fest on me with your website and on here.

Look dude, you're at Bob's Big Boy tonight with the coolest car there and you know it.
You also know that you have the best replica Time Machine for miles....
Doesn't that mean anything?
That car has changed your life, just like I said it would.
That's worth something more than some used car parts.

I just want this thing over with.
Fair?

I will absolutely accept the items! You demanded I sign something that said I was happy with the resolution before you would even tell me what you had! !?!?? Who would ever accept that!? I'm not signing anything, I'm not paying for the shipping - I paid $1300 for the shipping when I was in Dallas and asked for the items! Don't you see how offensive it is to try and charge me again? I'm not being an internet terrorist, I'm standing up for my rights.

And Bob, all I've asked is that since every time you physically LOOK for the items you seem to find things you never saw before? Maybe you could just look for the things that were new in the box!?!? There were 2 sets of floor mats... of course I want my DMC floor mats. Please just look again when you have a moment. Then throw them in the box and we're done! Can you imagine if you were the customer and you were told these items were thrown out and then only after you argued with the guy for days did he admit they were there. And items kept coming up as the days passed? I am not being a bully, you've literally said "fuck off, I have no time to look." How as a customer could I possibly respond to that other than filing a complaint? I BEGGED YOU to keep this private. I even mentioned keeping things about the mod private in the phone called you posted! I NEVER wanted this public but you were sooooooooo threatening, so offensive that you gave me zero other options.

So yes, please look, send those items - when I receive them I will JUMP back on here, tell everyone. Show pictures and this will be over! It will never be spoken of again. I will rescind the better business bureau complaint - you can ignore the 10-day demand letter you'll receive next week and that will be it! Everyone is reading this. I'm fully accountable.

[ALEXAKOS]

I own a pool building company that is ranked #3/12,500 pool builders in the USA for customer service and satisfaction. I also own a home building company that is ranked #1 in the PA. .

tony c
3886

This thread made me realize that I have friends in here that have exciting businesses that I most probably will never have the opportunity to work with or have the pleasure or receiving their services while chat about our Ds.

And this already ridiculous thread is about narrow minded self centered egoists fighting over a box of parts. Especially the big dude that throws around words like buddy lawyer and police to fierce out the opponent!

I mean seriously guy!!!! How old are you? Mentally I mean!!!!

Show some above the matter, money and ego character and finish this humility that is dragging your reputation down the gutter with every single further post you add of defensive stupidity!!!

[Kane]

"But, but, but... but, I cooked for you!"



I don't like being challenged

Must be real fun being an employee of yours...

I propose that when the story of this war is told to future generations that it be referred to as "The Great Garbage Bag Incident of 2014"

[Kane]

Let's say you put in a pool for someone and instead of coming to you with a problem they go to a public website of your peers to complain that you are a "thief".
You offer to do whatever the customer asks of you, but they refuse, they only insist on bashing you and will not take any resolution you offer.
What do you do about that?

That's what thousands of businesses deal with every day with things like Yelp reviews. A customer is mad and goes online to tell the world how horrible the business is. They refuse to talk to the owner and refuse any remedy.

Every business eventually deals with a disgruntled customer. Very few tell their customers to "Fuck off and die" and still stay in business.

[acaciolo]

kudos to videobob for finally agreeing to ship out the parts. your comment "for the millionth time...." wasn't really accurate though. if you would've agreed to ship out the parts 999,999 times ago, this would have ended much sooner. remember, you made some crazy demands and never once said you'd ship out the parts without getting paid for shipping. In the end, you are finally doing the right thing. just don't try to make it look like you've been trying to do the right thing all along. didn't you demand that the letter E be removed from the english language? or was that steve martin in some movie?

I honestly am going to talk about this in my customer service talks and how it could have been avoided.

ps. I just had a customer wig out on me because their $180k pool wasn't done for their Memorial Day party. they didn't care that it rained for 2 weeks, they added a massive boulder waterfall and they couldn't decide on pool finish color. they told me they'd never recommend me and were sorry they chose me. the owner had a complete irrational meltdown. I was the closest I've ever been to telling a customer to fuck off. but instead I politely explained some of the facts but threw myself under the bus for not being able to figure out a way around all the delays. I apologized profusely and assured her that when her pool was completed in 2 weeks, she'd feel otherwise.

and then I showed up at her house with an IPad mini. she opened the box and she pushed the waterfall button on the pool control app I had preinstalled. her face lit up and I thought she was going to hug me wheni told her the iPad was her " pool warming gift" and a small apology for me screwing up by not figuring out how to accelerate the schedule.

2 weeks later her neighbors called us for a pool and didn't get bids from anyone else because she gave us such a great referral.

bottom line, you could've turned this into something positive rather than try to prove your dick was longer. hopefully you'll learn from this. but true kudos again for finally doing what you should've done right from the start.

[acaciolo]

this got interesting. a contact request came in on my company website in the middle of the night from an "anonymous " person accusing me of being a fraud, a "plant" for Adam (who I don't know) and telling me I knew nothing about building cars or houses! they also said " I wouldn't be surprised if your website was a fake!". not sure what that even means..

I don't know who sent that, and I have no way to replying. but obviously, someone was reading my posts here, so hopefully they will read this.

you're right, I know nothing about building cars. I don't know Adam (but I'll bet you know bob!) and I sure do know about building houses. see below for an interesting room I built 21' below ground ...loaded with "props"

http://youtu.be/HyI_fFuOHds

people sure are funny.

[Michael]

this got interesting. a contact request came in on my company website in the middle of the night from an "anonymous " person accusing me of being a fraud, a "plant" for Adam (who I don't know) and telling me I knew nothing about building cars or houses! they also said " I wouldn't be surprised if your website was a fake!". not sure what that even means..

I don't know who sent that, and I have no way to replying. but obviously, someone was reading my posts here, so hopefully they will read this.

you're right, I know nothing about building cars. I don't know Adam (but I'll bet you know bob!) and I sure do know about building houses. see below for an interesting room I built 21' below ground ...loaded with "props"

http://youtu.be/HyI_fFuOHds

people sure are funny.

I'll give you 3 guesses who it was but you're only going to need one. I visited your website...I love how someone thinks a top notch site like that is just a fraud.

Your previous post was right on target btw. You value your business(es) and your reputation, and most of all you value your customers and you genuinely want to please them. I think there are a few vendors who could learn a thing or two from you.

[acaciolo]

michael,

thanks. the funny thing is...they didn't say my business was fake. just my website. I am still trying to figure out what a "fake website" is. Does it not really exist? is it a counterfeit? funny stuff.

all good. thanks to the few people who sent some nice PM's also. It is too bad that sometimes people are afraid to speak up on forums for fear of retaliation.

big kudos to nightflyer also for getting this to a resolution.

off to my son's lacrosse game....

tony

[NightFlyer]

michael,

thanks. the funny thing is...they didn't say my business was fake. just my website. I am still trying to figure out what a "fake website" is. Does it not really exist? is it a counterfeit? funny stuff.

all good. thanks to the few people who sent some nice PM's also. It is too bad that sometimes people are afraid to speak up on forums for fear of retaliation.

big kudos to nightflyer also for getting this to a resolution.

off to my son's lacrosse game....

tony

Hey Tony - really sorry to hear that you were trolled by one of the super-egos (or a minion thereof) from this thread. Knowing you though, it probably did little more than provide you with a good laugh and an interesting story to share with those you seminar with :smile:

The over-inflated sense of self-importance that both parties to this incident have is absolutely mind-numbing. Let's hope that they both gain a rather large dose of humility in the near future...

BTW - Hope your son's lacrosse team does well :thumbup:

[AdamKontras]

Hey Tony - really sorry to hear that you were trolled by one of the super-egos (or a minion thereof) from this thread. Knowing you though, it probably did little more than provide you with a good laugh and an interesting story to share with those you seminar with :smile:

The over-inflated sense of self-importance that both parties to this incident have is absolutely mind-numbing. Let's hope that they both gain a rather large dose of humility in the near future...

BTW - Hope your son's lacrosse team does well :thumbup:

Brother, enough already. I'm the cutomer who had the business admit they hid the property from view (for filming, not maliciously) while i was there and mistakenly told me it was trash. Me demanding my property isn't self-importance. I'm just a customer getting treated like an enemy combatant.

[yellowmxwheels23]

this got interesting. a contact request came in on my company website in the middle of the night from an "anonymous " person accusing me of being a fraud, a "plant" for Adam (who I don't know) and telling me I knew nothing about building cars or houses! they also said " I wouldn't be surprised if your website was a fake!". not sure what that even means..

I don't know who sent that, and I have no way to replying. but obviously, someone was reading my posts here, so hopefully they will read this.

you're right, I know nothing about building cars. I don't know Adam (but I'll bet you know bob!) and I sure do know about building houses. see below for an interesting room I built 21' below ground ...loaded with "props"

http://youtu.be/HyI_fFuOHds

people sure are funny.

:worship: That is pretty effin sweet.
It's weird though. You have a ton of pools that you build while my brother who owns a demolition company here in San Diego demos a ton of them.

[NightFlyer]

Brother, enough already. I'm the cutomer who had the business admit they hid the property from view (for filming, not maliciously) while i was there and mistakenly told me it was trash. Me demanding my property isn't self-importance. I'm just a customer getting treated like an enemy combatant.

Oh please - enough with the acting like you were a completely innocent party to all this and the victim. While you may not be as guilty as Bob is, as you were the mere customer and he is the business owner, and thus has a heightened duty as such, you're also not completely without sin here my friend.

First, you stated in an email to the BitCoin seller that you had reservations about something like this possibly happening with Bob, and yet, 1) you took NO proactive steps in procuring empirical evidence of the existence or condition of these parts, 2) for some reason you didn't have the parts delivered directly to yourself separate of the car, which would have been the logical course of action - especially when you had serious reservations/concerns, and 3) you chose to do business with Bob regardless of your suspicions, which quite frankly honestly makes one wonder... WHY?!?! If you had serious reservations about the ethics of a service provider before engaging in business with them, then why on earth would you take such a chance for - especially when other options exist in the market? Bob made a good point about drama such as this being a potential asset to your blog, which I honestly don't completely understand how that works to provide you with a revenue stream, but I do see his point. Basically, you admittedly took a chance throwing the dice, and yet are now bitching about it and looking for sympathy because you happened to crap out. Time to grow up and learn....

Second, Bob was consistent in asserting the following here:


I never refused to give him his parts.
I never refused to talk to this dude.
Adam has been the roadblock this entire time, because he wants me to make him an itemized list of the parts FIRST
and submit it to him so he can review it, for what reason I don't know, only then and after that time will be tell me how to proceed.
I asked him for his address to ship him the parts - HE REFUSED.
I asked him to talk to me on the phone so we could work out the details - HE REFUSED.

While Bob could very well be lying about this, based upon everything that I've seen here and on your blog, I'm inclined to believe a good portion of it though. You definitely made things more difficult than they had to be by the way you handled the situation. I won't go into all the specifics on this point, as it's pretty obvious from anyone who's followed the thread. Bob actually made a lot of good points pertaining to this, such as why you never inquired about the parts when you took delivery of the car, why the parts weren't separately inventoried and included on the shipping manifest if they were worth as much as you claimed them to be worth (were you OK with them being a total loss to you had the shipping company damaged and/or lost/stole them, but weren't OK when it was allegedly Bob who was screwing you out of them), etc...

Third, while I'm all about customer relations and doing whatever it takes to satisfy the customer to a reasonable level, as Tony focused upon in his posts, as a business owner myself, I also don't feel that it's right for a customer to exploit, rip-off, or extort a business, and quite frankly, some of the things on your list of parts just don't make sense, such as this accumulator and fuel filter cover - WTF is that exactly and why is it supposedly worth $108? You're not going to find that in the DeLorean parts manual, and quite frankly, the concept alone just doesn't make any sense, unless the car was heavily modified (which wasn't disclosed in the Bitcoin car's sale literature), and even then, why wouldn't it have been installed on the car for delivery to Bob's shop as opposed to sitting in the passenger's footwell??? Something just doesn't add up here. You'd know this if you knew anything about DeLoreans. I'm not saying that the Bitcoin seller is lying or made up phantom parts that never really existed, but it's possible and completely feasible, as you'd be willing to pay a couple thousand more for the car than you otherwise would be willing to spend if you believed that it came with five thousand worth of spare/extra parts, right? The thing here is that no empirical evidence/proof exists because you weren't a very diligent purchaser - you never actually saw these parts for yourself or had an independent third party that knew what they were looking at confirm them for you. You simply relied upon/trusted the assertions of the Bitcoin seller, and then expected Bob and the rest of us to also believe those assertions without any empirical proof of their actual existence or condition. Again, if they were important to you as your now making them out to be, then why would you do this?!?!

Believe me when I say that I'm not defending Bob here - quite the opposite in fact. The way in which he handled the entire situation was absolutely appalling, deplorable, and he should be appropriately ashamed if he had any semblance of objectivity and rationality. I'm simply pointing out that you aren't any kind of saint in all this mess either.

The take away from all this is that hopefully both of you learned valuable lessons from this experience and will employ what you learned going forward in your lives so that you never find yourselves in such a situation again.

Best of luck to both - glad that you'll be resolving the situation to a mutual satisfaction shortly :thumbup:

[DeLorean03]

All right - enough for now. Thread's locked as it seems a resolution is in the works, and we're not going to have a bunch of fighting back and forth.

If the thread needs to be re-opened, the two main parties can PM me privately with a request for it to be re-hased. Until then, *Looney Tunes music* That's all folks!!

[AdamKontras]

Been getting asked about what has happened (man, a lot more of you are reading this than responding) and I asked the moderator to unlock the thread so I could update.

On the 20th it seemed we were heading in the right direction, Bob even asked me to paypal him $1 so he could print up a shipping label (I actually don't have a paypal account so I just repeated the address I had given him before). I even agreed to the phone call he wanted with permission to record it, but as the days passed it was clear he was not going to be shipping the items and as of today when I asked for a tracking number I was told "i'm out of town. nothing has been shipped yet."

So I'm going forward with the 10-Day Demand letter per the request of the Duncanville Police Department and preparing the paperwork for small claims court. Tomorrow marks 10 days of this back and forth and there has been no effort to even itemize what he does have (even for his own protection when shipping!) and I can't let this drag on any further.

Thanks to those of you who put some pressure on Bob to do the right thing, but it's clear this will be going on for weeks if not months. Thankfully this thread has provided a ton of evidence I don't believe otherwise would've been known (what he admitted throwing out, etc.) so I'm extremely grateful for that. I'm sorry some of you still assume I'm at fault for even working with Bob, but there's a time and a place for that mental beatdown and it is decidedly after the resolution - not during.

I'm happy to answer any other questions but please do so in this thread as it keeps others from asking the same stuff.

[Michael]

You should have just let him drive the parts to you door. He did offer at the very beginning of all this and I quote "I swear to fuc%^&g God, I'm going to get in my car and drive to LA and take care of this myself!"

You could have told him to just throw those parts in his trunk and you would have had free express delivery to your door.

[Kane]

You should have sent the 10-Day Demand Letter 10 days ago.

[AdamKontras]

You should have sent the 10-Day Demand Letter 10 days ago.

I wanted to give him every opportunity to avoid this and truly thought the BBB complaint and this thread would avoid legal action. I was wrong, but fortunately I received an abundance of evidence during this time, something I may not have gotten had I not tried to resolve this outside of the courts.

[NightFlyer]

Bob - quit jagging around already and ship the man his shit. The quicker that you get what you have of Adam's currently in your possession back to Adam, the better things are for everyone - even if Adam decides to continue to dispute missing/damaged items after-the-fact. It does you no good sitting on it as you are. You keep saying how you want to be done and over with this situation, but your actions at this point are proving otherwise.

Simply spend an hour or two, get the stuff boxed up, and get it shipped out. Simple. Done. Move on.

If you're really out-of-town, then why wasn't this done before leaving town?

What's the hold up here? That's not meant as an invitation to post excuses or get confrontational / defensive regarding Adam's recent assertions , but rather an opportunity for you to do the best thing for yourself here and post something along the lines of 'his stuff will ship tomorrow and I'll post the tracking number here to prove it.'

So get it done!


Tomorrow marks 10 days of this back and forth and there has been no effort to even itemize what he does have (even for his own protection when shipping!) and I can't let this drag on any further.

First, 10 days into mitigation of a dispute without an ultimate resolution is not unusual and is not something to freak out about. So long as the parties are committed to and are continuing to work towards a resolution, then it's usually best to give the process some time to actually work. Good rule of thumb is 30 days.

Second, and for the upteenth time now, Bob does not have any duty to itemize your parts for you. His only duty is to deliver that which is currently in his possession and owned by you to you in a reasonable amount of time upon demand for such, and nothing more. Yeah, Bob screwed up not sticking the parts in the car upon shipping it to you - if he's disputing that at all, then he's a moron. At this point, I'm sure he wishes that he would have done so, and is in the process of altering his shop's procedures to avoid such incidences in the future (or at least this is what he should be doing if he had any kind of interest in the successful continuation of his business). But just because an incident has occurred, doesn't instill any extra duties upon Bob. Thus, if you're continuing to insist upon an itemized inventory being provided to you before shipping commences, than it is in fact you who are holding things up here, and not Bob, FYI. With the possibility of further potential litigation over the situation, it is in Bob's own interest to specifically know what it is that he's shipping to you, but that's for him to decide if he wants to take those extra steps - not you.

Thus, if you're really interested in seeing this get done, prove it by posting the address to which Bob is to ship your parts here on the forum (after all, it's already public information having been proudly displayed on your own initiative by your local nightly news during your putt-putt event). So do it - prove that you want this resolved and aren't just continuing to drum up drama for some attention / self-promotion. This is your opportunity...


I'm sorry some of you still assume I'm at fault for even working with Bob, but there's a time and a place for that mental beatdown and it is decidedly after the resolution - not during.

The purposes of this forum is to share knowledge/experience with others, so that others might benefit from our own trials and tribulations, just as you might be a beneficiary of the wisdom that other's have shared here. To continue to act as if you did nothing wrong in this situation does a severe dis-service to those who stand an opportunity to otherwise learn from your situation, which is what forces me to point it out, seeing as how you're completely unwilling to admit to such. Thus, let's review the things that Adam did WRONG here.

He purchased a car (with parts) completely site unseen, and without having a knowledgeable third party inspect it on his behalf, thus fully relying upon the assertions of the seller, who has his own financial interests/motivations at play here. That's NOT saying that the seller in this case was dishonest - only that there's a lot of subjectivity involved in sales. For example, both the seller and Adam described the car as being 'perfect' (if not near perfect), and yet, when it was delivered to Bob's shop, we saw photos, which Adam did not dispute, of fiberglass damage, mold, and dirt in the luggage compartment. There's also a story contained in the back-and-forth ranting about how the wiring on the car was completely HACKED into a rat's nest by the PO, which was asserted by Bob and fully assented to by Adam. That's hardly what I would call 'perfect,' but this just goes to show how truly subjective a term such as 'perfect' really is, which is why you should always protect yourself and interests by either personally inspecting, or getting a knowledgeable independent third party to do it for you, the vehicle you're interested in BEFORE committing to purchasing it. Given the discrepancies present with the condition of the luggage compartment and wiring is enough to make me question 1) the existence of some of these disputed parts (and especially the one's that don't make much sense - see past posts), and 2) the actual condition/value of these parts.

Adam says that we should merely trust him and the seller, while condemning Bob to hell. Well, in the real world, it doesn't work like that, and in any arising legal civil action, Adam is going to bear the burden of proving not only the existence of said parts, but also the condition/value of these parts, which without any empirical evidence pertaining to such (which Adam does NOT have), is going to be an uphill struggle at best (especially in regards to condition/value).

Which leads us to Adam's second fatal error here - he had the car/parts shipped to a third party intermediary (Bob's shop) without knowing the actual condition of any of it. That's just absolutely mind numbing if you think about it - from the perspective of both sides [unless there was some sort of mutual agreement between the parties before hand pertaining to received condition, which most reputable shops would not be willing to presume, except where a full restoration regardless of condition was planned (and even then, it's best for neither party to make any assumptions, as customer's of rebuilds/restorations know all too well)]. In this case, only a conversion was planned, thus precipitating this recipe for disaster. I won't go into further detail on this point, as you (anyone reading this) should be able to figure the rest out for yourself as to why this was a bad move.

Finally, Adam admitted in an early email to the seller, before the car having ever been delivered to Bob's shop, that he had serious concerns/reservations about doing business with Bob (and especially in regards to what would happen to the parts if they were delivered together with the car to Bob's shop). Which of course leads any logical/rational person to wonder WHY Adam didn't do more to protect himself then, right? After all, there's A LOT that Adam could have done to have avoided this from the very beginning. In addition to doing the things already mentioned above, Adam could have had the parts shipped directly to him by the seller, thus bypassing Bob's shop all together. But he didn't - WHY? Adam also could have obtained empirical evidence as to the parts, such as photos/videos proving their existence and condition, but he didn't. Again, WHY? He perceived ahead of time that there could be a potential problem with such an arrangement, and yet, he did NOTHING (of any real value anyway) to protect himself here. Not to mention that he failed to inquire about (a majority of) the parts during both his trip to Bob's shop while the conversion was on-going, or at the time of its delivery, although it really wasn't his duty/responsibility to do so, if they're as big of a deal as they turned out to be, then why wouldn't you have done this?

Accordingly, there's a good amount of lessons to be learned here. While Adam doesn't seem to think so, he's obviously only deluding himself because of some kind of sense of pride/ego.

Don't let the same thing that happened to Adam happen to you. Be SMART about your 5 figure purchases and in how you do business with service providers, as such situations can EASILY be avoided all together if you take some relatively simple pro-active steps to protect your interests in such transactions.

Hopefully my points were effectively made and the parties will resolve the situation shortly.

Best luck to all!

[AdamKontras]

Bob - quit jagging around already and ship the man his shit. The quicker that you get what you have of Adam's currently in your possession back to Adam, the better things are for everyone - even if Adam decides to continue to dispute missing/damaged items after-the-fact. It does you no good sitting on it as you are. You keep saying how you want to be done and over with this situation, but your actions at this point are proving otherwise.

Simply spend an hour or two, get the stuff boxed up, and get it shipped out. Simple. Done. Move on.

If you're really out-of-town, then why wasn't this done before leaving town?

What's the hold up here? That's not meant as an invitation to post excuses or get confrontational / defensive regarding Adam's recent assertions , but rather an opportunity for you to do the best thing for yourself here and post something along the lines of 'his stuff will ship tomorrow and I'll post the tracking number here to prove it.'

So get it done!



First, 10 days into mitigation of a dispute without an ultimate resolution is not unusual and is not something to freak out about. So long as the parties are committed to and are continuing to work towards a resolution, then it's usually best to give the process some time to actually work. Good rule of thumb is 30 days.

Second, and for the upteenth time now, Bob does not have any duty to itemize your parts for you. His only duty is to deliver that which is currently in his possession and owned by you to you in a reasonable amount of time upon demand for such, and nothing more. Yeah, Bob screwed up not sticking the parts in the car upon shipping it to you - if he's disputing that at all, then he's a moron. At this point, I'm sure he wishes that he would have done so, and is in the process of altering his shop's procedures to avoid such incidences in the future (or at least this is what he should be doing if he had any kind of interest in the successful continuation of his business). But just because an incident has occurred, doesn't instill any extra duties upon Bob. Thus, if you're continuing to insist upon an itemized inventory being provided to you before shipping commences, than it is in fact you who are holding things up here, and not Bob, FYI. With the possibility of further potential litigation over the situation, it is in Bob's own interest to specifically know what it is that he's shipping to you, but that's for him to decide if he wants to take those extra steps - not you.

Thus, if you're really interested in seeing this get done, prove it by posting the address to which Bob is to ship your parts here on the forum (after all, it's already public information having been proudly displayed on your own initiative by your local nightly news during your putt-putt event). So do it - prove that you want this resolved and aren't just continuing to drum up drama for some attention / self-promotion. This is your opportunity...



The purposes of this forum is to share knowledge/experience with others, so that others might benefit from our own trials and tribulations, just as you might be a beneficiary of the wisdom that other's have shared here. To continue to act as if you did nothing wrong in this situation does a severe dis-service to those who stand an opportunity to otherwise learn from your situation, which is what forces me to point it out, seeing as how you're completely unwilling to admit to such. Thus, let's review the things that Adam did WRONG here.

He purchased a car (with parts) completely site unseen, and without having a knowledgeable third party inspect it on his behalf, thus fully relying upon the assertions of the seller, who has his own financial interests/motivations at play here. That's NOT saying that the seller in this case was dishonest - only that there's a lot of subjectivity involved in sales. For example, both the seller and Adam described the car as being 'perfect' (if not near perfect), and yet, when it was delivered to Bob's shop, we saw photos, which Adam did not dispute, of fiberglass damage, mold, and dirt in the luggage compartment. There's also a story contained in the back-and-forth ranting about how the wiring on the car was completely HACKED into a rat's nest by the PO, which was asserted by Bob and fully assented to by Adam. That's hardly what I would call 'perfect,' but this just goes to show how truly subjective a term such as 'perfect' really is, which is why you should always protect yourself and interests by either personally inspecting, or getting a knowledgeable independent third party to do it for you, the vehicle you're interested in BEFORE committing to purchasing it. Given the discrepancies present with the condition of the luggage compartment and wiring is enough to make me question 1) the existence of some of these disputed parts (and especially the one's that don't make much sense - see past posts), and 2) the actual condition/value of these parts.

Adam says that we should merely trust him and the seller, while condemning Bob to hell. Well, in the real world, it doesn't work like that, and in any arising legal civil action, Adam is going to bear the burden of proving not only the existence of said parts, but also the condition/value of these parts, which without any empirical evidence pertaining to such (which Adam does NOT have), is going to be an uphill struggle at best (especially in regards to condition/value).

Which leads us to Adam's second fatal error here - he had the car/parts shipped to a third party intermediary (Bob's shop) without knowing the actual condition of any of it. That's just absolutely mind numbing if you think about it - from the perspective of both sides [unless there was some sort of mutual agreement between the parties before hand pertaining to received condition, which most reputable shops would not be willing to presume, except where a full restoration regardless of condition was planned (and even then, it's best for neither party to make any assumptions, as customer's of rebuilds/restorations know all too well)]. In this case, only a conversion was planned, thus precipitating this recipe for disaster. I won't go into further detail on this point, as you (anyone reading this) should be able to figure the rest out for yourself as to why this was a bad move.

Finally, Adam admitted in an early email to the seller, before the car having ever been delivered to Bob's shop, that he had serious concerns/reservations about doing business with Bob (and especially in regards to what would happen to the parts if they were delivered together with the car to Bob's shop). Which of course leads any logical/rational person to wonder WHY Adam didn't do more to protect himself then, right? After all, there's A LOT that Adam could have done to have avoided this from the very beginning. In addition to doing the things already mentioned above, Adam could have had the parts shipped directly to him by the seller, thus bypassing Bob's shop all together. But he didn't - WHY? Adam also could have obtained empirical evidence as to the parts, such as photos/videos proving their existence and condition, but he didn't. Again, WHY? He perceived ahead of time that there could be a potential problem with such an arrangement, and yet, he did NOTHING (of any real value anyway) to protect himself here. Not to mention that he failed to inquire about (a majority of) the parts during both his trip to Bob's shop while the conversion was on-going, or at the time of its delivery, although it really wasn't his duty/responsibility to do so, if they're as big of a deal as they turned out to be, then why wouldn't you have done this?

Accordingly, there's a good amount of lessons to be learned here. While Adam doesn't seem to think so, he's obviously only deluding himself because of some kind of sense of pride/ego.

Don't let the same thing that happened to Adam happen to you. Be SMART about your 5 figure purchases and in how you do business with service providers, as such situations can EASILY be avoided all together if you take some relatively simple pro-active steps to protect your interests in such transactions.

Hopefully my points were effectively made and the parties will resolve the situation shortly.

Best luck to all!

Sir, there was no issue with the car I purchased nor me having the items shipped with the car. You keep claiming there's no evidence of the parts, but I believe the whereabouts of 26/30 have been verified by Bob admitting he either threw them out or he has them through pictures he provided. So again, what on earth are you talking about? It's just bizarre at this point and both Bob and I have ignored you for several pages because you keep repeating the same things over and over even though they're not true. Just like saying my address was made public by the news? Uhm, where are you coming up with this stuff? It's very confusing for people trying to follow the thread.

[NightFlyer]

Sir, there was no issue with the car I purchased nor me having the items shipped with the car

See Bob's pictures posted on this thread, which you didn't contest, clearly showing damage to the fiberglass in the luggage compartment, not to mention the general unkempt condition of it when it arrived at Bob's shop.

See this from your own YouTube channel, in which you conceded to a point made by Bob, wherein a complete hack and rat's nest of the car's wiring is described:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuobhL6xELM

From your own blog entry


In April I asked Greg to email both you and me the contents of the Delorean he shipped as I was concerned you might take them and I'd have no course of action.

So, do you want to keep on with the constant BS/denial, or do you want to get REAL? Your choice my man.


You keep claiming there's no evidence of the parts, but I believe the whereabouts of 26/30 have been verified by Bob admitting he either threw them out or he has them through pictures he provided.

You obviously didn't read what I wrote, or you have a severe reading comprehension problem - I suggest you get some professional help for that. Never claimed that there was no evidence - only that there was no empirical evidence prior to Bob's discovery of, admission to, and posting of photos of said parts. As to the remaining parts that are unaccounted for, there has been no empirical evidence of such displayed to this forum - and that's a FACT jack.


It's just bizarre at this point and both Bob and I have ignored you for several pages because you keep repeating the same things over and over even though they're not true.

By ignoring me or choosing to misinterpret what I (very carefully) post here, you just prove to the forum that you aren't as sincere as you claim to be. Think about it.


Just like saying my address was made public by the news? Uhm, where are you coming up with this stuff?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQDUEMkShjU

Adam Kontras, North Hollywood, Van Nuys, CA

Or do you expect people to believe that the news media were just randomly driving around your neighborhood looking for a story when they just so happened upon this little party/get-together that was going on at your home? Yeah....


It's very confusing for people trying to follow the thread.

Well, there's all the explanations that you requested, together with actual proofs in support of everything that I asserted. If you're saying that anything I've summized is wrong, then that means that you were lying, as I only analyzed the evidence that you and Bob provided - I have no personal stake/interest in the feud between you two, but I would like to see that others learn from both of your guy's mistakes/errors.

Good day to you :smile:

[AdamKontras]

Not sure what the point of responding to this is. Whenever you're wrong? You ignore that. But, this is a discussion thread and all of these are extremely easy to address.


See Bob's pictures posted on this thread, which you didn't contest, clearly showing damage to the fiberglass in the luggage compartment, not to mention the general unkempt condition of it when it arrived at Bob's shop.

See this from your own YouTube channel, in which you conceded to a point made by Bob, wherein a complete hack and rat's nest of the car's wiring is described:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuobhL6xELM

The original seller did electric modifications for a music computer and to reduce strain on the battery. Actually some very cool stuff. Frustrating for Bob because he has his own electrical stuff to add for the modification and that's usually done with a stock Delorean. So again, how is that an issue with a car? And the dirty trunk? Uhm. The only actual damage I saw came from Bob's crew taking the grill off, breaking it, and putting it back on. I never cared about that really, nor did I care about the trunk. A mechanic I took it to saw no accident damage to the frame nor anything that he thought was anything other than minor. So I just don't understand what you're trying to prove. I bought the car and am happy with it.




From your own blog entry

"In April I asked Greg to email both you and me the contents of the Delorean he shipped as I was concerned you might take them and I'd have no course of action."

So, do you want to keep on with the constant BS/denial, or do you want to get REAL? Your choice my man.

Stop treating me like a dick. Just asking for that much if at all possible.

No denial here, the longer story that you have skimmed over is this:

The seller already had my money. All $21,000. Bob also already had $15,000 of my money. I was in. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with both but especially the seller that weekend. He was going through the arduous process of packing the car with 10 years worth of things and helping me with measurements for my carport. His list was so intense that I finally asked if he couldn't just itemize it so there was no confusion. I did indeed have reservations, but since I had already sent $15,000 to Bob I felt it was an abundance of caution. However maybe his employees might think there was no record of the parts and take some? Who knows. I felt it best to have the seller write out every item. He one-upped me by not only writing them out but giving their exact location in the car so Bob could best check as Bob was receiving the car the following day. When I asked about the items twice, in Dallas? I was told they were trash and thrown out. It has now been proven (through pictures and Bob actually admitting he had the items and threw them out) that so far 26/30 items are accounted for. So again, why you feel the need to bring up this point is beyond me. I did all I could in Dallas (Bob is not a fan of being challenged, and I believe asking him a 3rd time face-to-face would not have resulted in a good situation) and am doing all I can now.



You obviously didn't read what I wrote, or you have a severe reading comprehension problem - I suggest you get some professional help for that. Never claimed that there was no evidence - only that there was no empirical evidence prior to Bob's discovery of, admission to, and posting of photos of said parts. As to the remaining parts that are unaccounted for, there has been no empirical evidence of such displayed to this forum - and that's a FACT jack.

I understand you don't like me and feel I have no case. That's absolutely your right. However in civil court you do not prove things "beyond a reasonable doubt" you prove things by which side seems more reasonable. Bob admitting he had my property and threw it out by itself is rather damning. The fact that the overwhelming amount of items have been pictured in his possession is pretty much the end of the case. He admitted to his crew taking the parts, hiding them from view and telling me they were thrown out. Again - you're welcome to tell me how wrong I am, but I'm not sure you've ever actually been through the judicial system. Just a guess on my part.




By ignoring me or choosing to misinterpret what I (very carefully) post here, you just prove to the forum that you aren't as sincere as you claim to be. Think about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQDUEMkShjU

Adam Kontras, North Hollywood, Van Nuys, CA

Or do you expect people to believe that the news media were just randomly driving around your neighborhood looking for a story when they just so happened upon this little party/get-together that was going on at your home? Yeah....

The news responded to a press release for the charity event and I was happy to give them my address. Raised over $1500 for the charity, I was very proud of that. Why are you being a dick? Why are you asking me to post my private address in this thread? Bob has (on voicemail) threatened to come here and "deal with it himself" and is now "out of town". Why anyone in my position would be expected to post their public address after that is baffling. He has had the shipping address for some time now and it is the same address connected with the investor in my business. What, on earth, does that have to do with this?


Well, there's all the explanations that you requested, together with actual proofs in support of everything that I asserted. If you're saying that anything I've summized is wrong, then that means that you were lying, as I only analyzed the evidence that you and Bob provided - I have no personal stake/interest in the feud between you two, but I would like to see that others learn from both of your guy's mistakes/errors.

Good day to you :smile:

Why are you doing this? I haven't lied, I haven't changed my story, I haven't roadblocked ANYTHING I have always said I would accept whatever items he ships and if he really doesn't want to itemize them before he ships, that's his own lack of responsibility. I asked for the items in May in person, I've asked for the items 10 days ago in an email, dozens of times in texts, I've asked for them in the Better Business Bureau complaint, multiple times on this thread. I don't want the money - I simply want the parts. I never wanted this to be public (if you really did take the time to watch that hour long conversation from June 2nd you'll see I say the same in that even though I was being taped without my knowledge), I begged him to just ship the items and for whatever reason he's interested in doing other things. That's where we stand. I know you don't like me. I know you HATE the fact that I bought THAT car and went with THAT builder. But acting as if I'm somehow equal in blame to someone who admits to taking the parts, hiding them from me and then telling me they weren't there? You clearly have your own agenda. You aren't helping this thread. You're filling it with stuff that has NOTHING to do with the issue.

[NightFlyer]

Not sure what the point of responding to this is. Whenever you're wrong? You ignore that.

Actually, it's vice versa (and I'm not talking about the Judge Reinhold film), but go ahead and ignore reality.


The original seller did electric modifications for a music computer and to reduce strain on the battery. Actually some very cool stuff. Frustrating for Bob because he has his own electrical stuff to add for the modification and that's usually done with a stock Delorean. So again, how is that an issue with a car? And the dirty trunk? Uhm. The only actual damage I saw came from Bob's crew taking the grill off, breaking it, and putting it back on. I never cared about that really, nor did I care about the trunk. A mechanic I took it to saw no accident damage to the frame nor anything that he thought was anything other than minor. So I just don't understand what you're trying to prove. I bought the car and am happy with it.

Yeah, and when most PO's do electrical system modifications on these car, they're 100% professional in their work and fully document everything with new schematics. That's sarcasm BTW.

You fully conceded in the phone call (your own voice and words) that it was a hack job and a rat's nest, just as Bob described it. Supposedly, a photo exists of this, which you have, but haven't posted to defend your new view of the situation. And yet, now you're now trying to claim that the PO was Nikola Tesla. If you can't see the contradictory nature of your own fully documented assertions on this issue, then you really do need some professional help my friend. So which Adam is telling the truth about this - the Adam in the video during the phone call with Bob, or the Adam who's now posting on the forum?

BTW - you admit to not having cared about the condition of the luggage compartment, and yet still saw fit to use the word 'perfect' in describing the condition of the car, when many owners (both prospective and current) would assert otherwise based on the condition of the luggage compartment as it existed at the time of delivery (in addition to other things). Thus again, proving the point I was trying to make (which you completely missed) - that descriptive words used in sales literature, such as 'perfect,' are VERY subjective, and thus warrant personal or independent third party observation.

And it matters, because if your perceptions/descriptions about the condition of the car were off, then how do you expect anyone to take you seriously regarding the alleged condition/value of the parts currently at issue here? Remember, you're only entitled to recovery of that which you actually lost (value of the parts in the conditions that they were in when remitted to Bob's possession), and not to full replacement value as you've been seeking. The burden is fully on you to prove the value/condition of these parts - a competent court is not going to presume that they were all in new condition without actual proof of such, FYI.


Stop treating me like a dick. Just asking for that much if at all possible.

I'm not - stop taking things personally that aren't intended as such. I'm merely being brutally honest, just as I am with Bob or anyone else here.


No denial here, the longer story that you have skimmed over is this:

The seller already had my money. All $21,000. Bob also already had $15,000 of my money. I was in. I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with both but especially the seller that weekend. He was going through the arduous process of packing the car with 10 years worth of things and helping me with measurements for my carport. His list was so intense that I finally asked if he couldn't just itemize it so there was no confusion. I did indeed have reservations, but since I had already sent $15,000 to Bob I felt it was an abundance of caution. However maybe his employees might think there was no record of the parts and take some? Who knows. I felt it best to have the seller write out every item. He one-upped me by not only writing them out but giving their exact location in the car so Bob could best check as Bob was receiving the car the following day. When I asked about the items twice, in Dallas? I was told they were trash and thrown out. It has now been proven (through pictures and Bob actually admitting he had the items and threw them out) that so far 26/30 items are accounted for. So again, why you feel the need to bring up this point is beyond me. I did all I could in Dallas (Bob is not a fan of being challenged, and I believe asking him a 3rd time face-to-face would not have resulted in a good situation) and am doing all I can now.

Bob stating that they were trash and thrown out, but then finding parts retained after-the-fact proves nothing - unless you have evidence of malicious/devious intent, which you haven't provided any to the forum. People do make mistakes - the important thing is that they act to correct themselves upon taking notice of having committed such mistakes. Bob admitted to finding parts when he discovered them, thus there's no issue here, nor does it prove Bob a liar, unless you have evidence/proof showing that he affirmatively knew that he still had your parts when claiming that he thought that he had thrown them out. So you'd be best to move BEYOND that....

And to be quite honest here, most of that which Bob currently has in his possession isn't worth very much, thus it's highly improbable that he'd attempt to keep the parts in order to later sell/fence for a profit, which would net him a few hundred dollars (if that), after you just got done spending $30k+ (or whatever the bill was) with him. I'm not saying that this kind of thing doesn't happen at all in this world, only that in this case, you have no evidence to prove such a theory, and that it's highly improbable regardless.

And once again, you're saying that you did have reservations/concerns about transporting the parts via Bob, but above you stated that "there was no issue with... having the items shipped with the car." And once again, you're not being consistent here. Clearly, you did have reservations, and the take away that I provided for others looking to learn something from this thread is that there's so much more (and relatively simple measures) that you could have done to protect yourself from this ever happening, given your concerns/reservations, and yet you didn't do ANY of them. Get it yet?

And why would you be intimated/scared to ask a service provide that you're paying $30k to, a question pertaining to the job that they're doing for you? That just doesn't make any sense at all, but as stated previously, that was a minor point to be made in this web of a mess.


I understand you don't like me and feel I have no case. That's absolutely your right. However in civil court you do not prove things "beyond a reasonable doubt" you prove things by which side seems more reasonable. Bob admitting he had my property and threw it out by itself is rather damning. The fact that the overwhelming amount of items have been pictured in his possession is pretty much the end of the case. He admitted to his crew taking the parts, hiding them from view and telling me they were thrown out. Again - you're welcome to tell me how wrong I am, but I'm not sure you've ever actually been through the judicial system. Just a guess on my part.

I have absolutely NOTHING against you - again, don't take things personally that aren't intended as such. If you look at my posts as informative and educational, as they're intended to be, and can set aside your pride/ego long enough to look at this situation from a wholly objective perspective, then you just might learn something.

As for your case, you most definitely do have one and a completely valid one at that. But as it's impossible for Bob to defend against your claims to the property that he admits to and has shown to be physically in possession of, it's best to give him the opportunity to return it to you, as he most certainly will - he does NOT have a valid defense to such property at this point (except to try to claim that it was abandoned to the rightful ownership of his shop, but that would be a BIG mistake IMHO, in more ways than just legally speaking).

As to the burden of proof in civil court, as I explained to you before (which you obviously didn't read or didn't comprehend), in order to successfully prove the merits of your case, you must do so to a preponderance of the evidence, which means that >50% of the credible evidence received by the court must be in your favor in order for you to be successful on your asserted claims.

As to the property that we know Bob has, it's a slam dunk - and BTW, in regards to such, you'd be seeking a REPLEVIN of such property, and damages only in the alternative (if the property is never returned).

As to the property that he admits to having had, but threw out, I gave a detailed analysis and awarded you $136.95, which you'd both be wise to accept and abide by, as a real court isn't gong to be as thorough as I was. You have to decide if such a nominal amount (relative to a $30k transaction) is worth the costs/time/effort of pursuing. If Bob were ethical and cared about the image of his business, he'd offer you this in addition to the return of the property that he does still have.

As to the property that Bob has been consistent in denying its existence, that's where you run into a burden/proof problem, as in the way of supporting/contradicting evidence, all that exists is the word of both parties. As you NEVER saw the property, you're going to rely upon the testimony (or more likely the sworn affidavit) of the seller, while Bob is going to put himself and all of his shop guys on the stand and have them testify that he/they never saw it. And there's enough inconsistencies (as I've already pointed out) for Bob to successfully challenge the credibility of your evidence, starting with the seller's own independent financial motivations, the fact that some of it doesn't make much/any sense, that there's no empirical evidence of it, etc. Just as you have enough inconsistencies in Bob's stories/actions to successfully challenge the credibility of the testimony of Bob and his guys on the matter. But that leaves it at 50/50. You need more than 50% to win. Get it? That's why a competent court would rightfully no-cause you on these items. While you may get a less than competent court to side with you as to existence of such property, you still have the problem of proving condition/value of this property, which you'd probably end receiving an award for a strictly nominal amount, if you're not no-caused on it. Sorry, it sucks and I really do feel for you, but in court, it's NEVER about what actually happened - only what you can PROVE happened. Get it. That's why you should have taken extra precautions to avoid the entire mess in the first place, which was completely within your control to prevent. Get it yet?

I'm actually giving you A LOT of free advice - you'd be wise to be open to it.


The news responded to a press release for the charity event and I was happy to give them my address. Raised over $1500 for the charity, I was very proud of that. Why are you being a dick? Why are you asking me to post my private address in this thread? Bob has (on voicemail) threatened to come here and "deal with it himself" and is now "out of town". Why anyone in my position would be expected to post their public address after that is baffling. He has had the shipping address for some time now and it is the same address connected with the investor in my business. What, on earth, does that have to do with this?

So you did hold an event at your home which was publicly displayed on your local news at your own invitation to do so - exactly as I said.

If Bob has the address, then that's fine, there's no reason to further post it here.

Bob just needs to ship the things ASAP, but that also doesn't mean right this very second. As I said before, 30 days is the standard rule of thumb when attempting to mitigate your claims. Give him time to comply. As it has already been 10 days, he had 20 left, though he really should do his best to prioritize this and get it done and over with - that's a no-brainer.


Why are you doing this?

Again, I'm not doing anything to/against you - I'm merely providing an objective take away for others following the thread.

You take it personally because you believe that you didn't do anything wrong/foolish under the circumstances. While it's certainly your right to continue to hold those opinions/believes, they do not conform to the consensus reality of the situation. Again, try to remove yourself from the issue and look upon it from a completely objective perspective, and you might just see what I'm trying to tell you.


I haven't changed my story

Umm, yeah, you have - a couple times. See above for details.


I haven't roadblocked ANYTHING I have always said I would accept whatever items he ships and if he really doesn't want to itemize them before he ships, that's his own lack of responsibility. I asked for the items in May in person, I've asked for the items 10 days ago in an email, dozens of times in texts, I've asked for them in the Better Business Bureau complaint, multiple times on this thread. I don't want the money - I simply want the parts. I never wanted this to be public (if you really did take the time to watch that hour long conversation from June 2nd you'll see I say the same in that even though I was being taped without my knowledge), I begged him to just ship the items and for whatever reason he's interested in doing other things. That's where we stand.

If the guy's out of town, then he's out of town. I don't know if that's true or not, but as I stated before, give him a little more time to comply. If he doesn't act soon, then he clearly has a problem and I'll fully support whatever you have to do to get him to comply.

The whole thing has already damaged the reputation of his business, thus he really should be making this a priority, IMHO.

And from a legal standpoint, ss I've consistently said, at this point, it's foolish for Bob to keep the stuff that he has any longer than is necessary, as it does him no good holding on to it. He should definitely make it a priority to get it shipped out to you ASAP.


I know you don't like me. I know you HATE the fact that I bought THAT car and went with THAT builder.

That's not true at all - again, stop taking thing personally that aren't intended as such. I have no issues with you or your car that I'm aware of.

I'm glad that you found a car that was right for you, glad that you converted it to be as you wanted it to be, and glad that you want to be a part of our community (though I do question as to whether we'll see very much of you on the forum once this incident has resolved itself, one way or the other, but I'm merely being honest about such).

As far as your choice in going with Bob's shop is concerned, what I don't like is the attitude, to be honest. You admit to having had reservations/concerns about his business practices, and as is depicted in the phone call video with 'BTTF shit popping off the car,' and yet, you did business with him anyway. Isn't that like sitting down at the craps table - you know you're taking a chance, but when you crap out, you bitch about it and look for sympathy from others. Yeah....


But acting as if I'm somehow equal in blame to someone who admits to taking the parts, hiding them from me and then telling me they weren't there? You clearly have your own agenda. You aren't helping this thread. You're filling it with stuff that has NOTHING to do with the issue.

Again, the only agenda I have is in helping to facilitate a resolution of the situation and in providing real value to this thread for others (including yourself) following it, and that includes pointing out what you could have done differently to avoid the situation all together, which has EVERYTHING to do with the purpose of the forum.

Have a pleasant evening :smile:

[AdamKontras]

Yeah, and when most PO's do electrical system modifications on these car, they're 100% professional in their work and fully document everything with new schematics. That's sarcasm BTW.

Thankfully, you started with this as it reminded me why I should ignore everything else: He actually did fully document his work and provided new wiring schematics. The booklet is in one of the pictures in this thread. It was a "rat's nest" to Bob because it had to be removed since this was a different modification. Your judgement of the original seller and his work is astounding. You've said from the beginning that you steered people away from that car for months and you have made it a mission to "teach people a lesson" about the guy who did end up buying it. It is so far off-topic at this point a mod had to lock the thread after one of your posts. Which is why I will not go through every point further putting this off-topic. I would like it to remain open.

So for those who wanted an update on the actual topic that is now probably 2 pages back:


On the 20th it seemed we were heading in the right direction, Bob even asked me to paypal him $1 so he could print up a shipping label (I actually don't have a paypal account so I just repeated the address I had given him before). I even agreed to the phone call he wanted with permission to record it, but as the days passed it was clear he was not going to be shipping the items and as of today when I asked for a tracking number I was told "i'm out of town. nothing has been shipped yet."

So I'm going forward with the 10-Day Demand letter per the request of the Duncanville Police Department and preparing the paperwork for small claims court. Tomorrow marks 10 days of this back and forth and there has been no effort to even itemize what he does have (even for his own protection when shipping!) and I can't let this drag on any further.

Thanks to those of you who put some pressure on Bob to do the right thing, but it's clear this will be going on for weeks if not months. Thankfully this thread has provided a ton of evidence I don't believe otherwise would've been known (what he admitted throwing out, etc.) so I'm extremely grateful for that. I'm sorry some of you still assume I'm at fault for even working with Bob, but there's a time and a place for that mental beatdown and it is decidedly after the resolution - not during.

Hopefully I have more to report soon. Thankfully nearly all of the items have been accounted for and the resolution is just a waiting game while filing paperwork.

Also, many people have come out of the woodwork asking me to "take down" Bob and his business, etc. and I wanted to quickly address that: in short? No. I have a family, am starting a new business, and have no interest in this outside of getting my property and protecting myself from threats and other crimes. I do realize that because of having that charity news report it's assumed I'm doing this for attention, but a quick glance at the past couple years of my life will show you that I'm an extremely proud and happy husband and father who really did let go of all that to rebuild his house and spend time with his family thanks to a smart investment in IMAX (not for any of the other reasons listed in anger in this thread). My entire family wants this over with and my wife in particular is extremely uneasy about Bob's threats and his suddenly being "out of town" now. It is actually a pretty tense situation and if it continues in this fashion much longer I will withdraw everything. There's a reason why everyone writes me privately about this, yet won't stick their nose out in public: it's scary. Tony found that out the moment his business got a complaint after he took a side in this thread. Those tactics actually work. It shuts people up. People figure "Oh I don't want that headache, I'll just write to him privately." (and thank you for those emails and Facebook messages!) and because of that? Bob will absolutely continue. He will settle, this thread will disappear and he will move on.

And so will I. Though I'm hoping sticking your next out when I ask for help replacing a fuel pump isn't as scary. :tongue_stick:

[acaciolo]

I'd be shocked if bob doesn't ship those out ASAP. there are over 5,000 views on this thread and bob has to realize that when people search for bttf cars, this pops up. even the most stubborn business owner would be stupid to not put this mountain, that started as a molehill, to rest. I still can't believe the time that bob spent on fighting this.

I hope the parts arrive before you have to go through the drama of court.

tony

ps. I didn't shut up because of the absurd "your website is fake" email I got. the thread was locked shortly after.

[AdamKontras]

I'd be shocked if bob doesn't ship those out ASAP. there are over 5,000 views on this thread and bob has to realize that when people search for bttf cars, this pops up. even the most stubborn business owner would be stupid to not put this mountain, that started as a molehill, to rest. I still can't believe the time that bob spent on fighting this.

I hope the parts arrive before you have to go through the drama of court.

tony

ps. I didn't shut up because of the absurd "your website is fake" email I got. the thread was locked shortly after.

Gotcha.

Oh and it just occurred to me that most people don't realize that I put the money down on the modification before I purchased the car. Nightflyer keeps wondering why I went with Bob at all after I had reservations, but that's not the correct order. Furthermore, I had reservations about the seller including so many parts without an inventory list, not about Bob as a builder. Two separate issues.

[Rich_NYS]

Again - you're welcome to tell me how wrong I am, but I'm not sure you've ever actually been through the judicial system. Just a guess on my part.

LOL....





I'm actually giving you A LOT of free advice - you'd be wise to be open to it.


If I were in this same situation, I would gladly take it instead of paying for a lawyer and have to take time off from work. Bob's approach to the situation will likely result in Adam spending time, energy & money while he goes about business as usual.



FWIW, I've known "different" types of people in business and I'd like to offer an excuse for Bob (I don't know him, never met him, saw him at DCS.)
He appears to be highly talented and he's probably more an Artist than a businsessman (maybe he has a MBA or something, but I'm guessing: "Artist.")
A lot of the Artist-type people I've known don't focus as much as they should on business details, they just do their thing & get paid for it.

That doesn't give him carte blanche to be a dick, but that's how I would've assessed this field before playing on it.

Bob's "fuckit" attitude means he'll continue to do what he does well, and his future clients might assess the type of field they're playing and cover their ass (business details) because they'll know he instead will be focused on the details of what they're paying for.

I never would've gotten this far, because when he offered to drive to my house I would've countered with an offer to instead meet him at his front door to resolve it in person.

It seems like both guys have something to lose from a business perspective, and Tony is right: searching BTTF will likely lead interested clients to this thread.

[AdamKontras]

I never would've gotten this far, because when he offered to drive to my house I would've countered with an offer to instead meet him at his front door to resolve it in person.

What on earth are you talking about? Bob never offered to drive from Dallas to Los Angeles to deliver my parts.

!?!?!? Does anyone actually read this or do they just assume based on the last page or two and spout off? Good lord people.

[Michael]

What on earth are you talking about? Bob never offered to drive from Dallas to Los Angeles to deliver my parts.

!?!?!? Does anyone actually read this or do they just assume based on the last page or two and spout off? Good lord people.

Oh yes he did offer to drive to your house. Go back and relisten to your voicemail you posted. He said he would "get in his car and drive to LA and take care of this myself":bootyshake:

and to answer your last question....I am most definitely NOT reading the long posts from you or nightflyer or VB. That got old on page 6. I have been giving it about 8.5% of my attention and that's on a good day.

[Rich_NYS]

What on earth are you talking about? Bob never offered to drive from Dallas to Los Angeles to deliver my parts.

!?!?!? Does anyone actually read this or do they just assume based on the last page or two and spout off? Good lord people.

Sorry 'bout that, I wasn't intending to spout off, I was just jumping into the fray so I could participate in the excitement.....I thought he said something about driving to where you live to take care of it in person.

My apologizes....

[AdamKontras]

Sorry 'bout that, I wasn't intending to spout off, I was just jumping into the fray so I could participate in the excitement.....I thought he said something about driving to where you live to take care of it in person.

My apologizes....


Bob was angry I ended up going public and said that if I didn't take the post down he would drive here and "deal with this himself". People have joked about it since in a sarcastic manner (as if any of these threats are funny).

[Rich_NYS]

Bob was angry I ended up going public and said that if I didn't take the post down he would drive here and "deal with this himself". At the time he said there were no parts, so he most definitely wasn't delivering anything. People have joked about it since in a sarcastic manner (as if any of these threats are funny).

Not trying to get you riled-up, but Bob doesn't appear to be the physically-threatening type; I would've seen that as an opportunity to make lemonade out of lemons. If that had been me, I would've scrubbed the public stuff and tried to salvage the business relationship......seems like you could've helped each other in that respect (BTTF gigs.)

I'm not trying to "get your goat" man....just participating in the public discussion, please don't take offense.

[Gary Weaver II]

Amazing how things can get so crazy over a box of parts which honestly should have been inventoried when they came in the car in the first place. However, that ship has sailed and it's not just a matter of these parts being shipped to Adam or Adam's representative.

Honestly, I've stayed out of most of this because I'd like to see it resolved for Adam. If myself or any other builder/critic of Bob even attempted to give our advice this thread would devolve almost instantly into a shouting match (him to everyone else AS USUAL). The thread would then get locked, go away, and I doubt Bob would pay it any more notice or bother to resolve it with Adam. That's pretty much the standard m.o. for any member or thread critical of Videobob.

The silence is not a lack of support, but in fact the best possible way many of us can support Adam's efforts to resolve this. I didn't see a need to pile on Bob to make him look bad in this situation. His voicemails, posted videos, and comments in this thread do far more damage to his buisness than any of us could ever have hoped for.

Adam, on a personal note. I don't know about anyone else, but you have support on this and I'm happy to help wherever I can. Case in point - I'm happy to send you a little something to modify and make your Mr Fusion a bit more accurate - as well as openable.

28579 28580

Pop me your address and I'll send it out to you free of charge. I'll even pay for postage :) You've seen the quality of parts I've helped Martin Sanchez out with to correct his VB Conversion - so you should have a good idea what to expect.

I'd like to think you have survived a little trial by fire here - both with your conversion and you introduction to DMCTalk :) Get through this mess with Bob and move on with better things.

-Gary

[Totally 80s]

It's too bad Adam and Bob couldn't just split the cost of shipping the parts back and call it a day. I had not seen the option of splitting the shipping costs discussed. Seems fair?

Just to file the small claims court papers is $50.

[AdamKontras]

Not trying to get you riled-up, but Bob doesn't appear to be the physically-threatening type; I would've seen that as an opportunity to make lemonade out of lemons. If that had been me, I would've scrubbed the public stuff and tried to salvage the business relationship......seems like you could've helped each other in that respect (BTTF gigs.)

I'm not trying to "get your goat" man....just participating in the public discussion, please don't take offense.

I couldn't agree more man. That's the problem with jumping in at the end. You miss the 2 1/2 months where I let everything slide to maintain the relationship. Produced professional videos for Bob, kept everything private (amazingly, the majority still IS) and literally begged him to resolve this befor I had to file a BBB claim. It's a long story no one can actually believe so they just assume a bunch. It's understandable though - this thread is extremely confusing and long. I understand why people read part of it and say 'wait, why don't they just ______'. The truth is Bob even today has written me asking 'why should I help you?'. I'm at a complete loss as to why he feels no sense of urgency in regards to this matter. Doing everything I can to make it clear.

[videobob]

I hadn't checked this thread because I understood it was locked.
Anyway, I had agreed to send Adam's box-o-junk to him, but he wanted me to first try to find some of the other items.
I told him we would be busy out of the shop shooting scenes for my TV show and then I had to go out of town for a gig. He wanted to finally talk on the phone but everytime I called he didn't answer.

I asked for the $1 Paypal to generate an automated shipping label but he couldn't do that.
I was ready to ship the box but I didn't have his info.
Then he gave me an alternate address different from his home address with someone else's name on it.
I told him that I want it to go to him, his address and only him to sign for it, since he is threatening all this legal action towards me.
It has always been Adam who has held up this proccess!

Furthermore, I return to the original issue, why wasn't this stuff mentioned when he was at my shop and home
for 3 days? We could have settled up on it then.
Instead of calling me and talking to me about it, he puts together a 3 page blog, 2 YouTube videos and
the attack in this thread.
I admit, my knee jerk reaction is to fight, it's my worst trait, I know that.
Vulgarities aside, I never did anything wrong, I never tried to steal anything from this dude,
the said items were misplaced by my crew and I never even knew they existed until Adam asked about them
a month later....at which time he did so rudely with insults and threats.
That is where everything went wrong.
This could have been handled very differently if he had simply called me in the first place
instead of waging this war on me here, publically.

If anything, this should prevent anyone from ever doing business with him as they know if there is a
dissagreement he wilk internet-terrorize them with slander and threats!

Now that there are claims filed, letters mailed, accusations made and legal actions threatened,
this is going to delay the shipment of the items while I speak with council, review the claims, respond to
letters and etc.
If Adam had just been cooperative and patient my plan was to ship his box out on Friday along with some
free replacement parts, additional parts and other gifts.
Now it looks like that is all on hold until I look into this with more detail.

Unless Adam is willing to talk to me on the phone, agree to drop his case amd make some revisions,
this looks like its going a different route.
Again, this is all Adam's choice.
I have been trying to send him his stuff for weeks now, since this started, if he would let me!

[AdamKontras]

I hadn't checked this thread because I understood it was locked.
Anyway, I had agreed to send Adam's box-o-junk to him, but he wanted me to first try to find some of the other items.
I told him we would be busy out of the shop shooting scenes for my TV show and then I had to go out of town for a gig. He wanted to finally talk on the phone but everytime I called he didn't answer.

I asked for the $1 Paypal to generate an automated shipping label but he couldn't do that.
I was ready to ship the box but I didn't have his info.
Then he gave me an alternate address different from his home address with someone else's name on it.
I told him that I want it to go to him, his address and only him to sign for it, since he is threatening all this legal action towards me.
It has always been Adam who has held up this proccess!

It is the same name and address of the person who wired you $35,000, Bob, and you've had it for weeks now.


Furthermore, I return to the original issue, why wasn't this stuff mentioned when he was at my shop and home
for 3 days? We could have settled up on it then.

I mentioned it twice, you said it was all trash and thrown out. You have actually admitted to that in this thread. Just ship me the stuff.


Instead of calling me and talking to me about it, he puts together a 3 page blog, 2 YouTube videos and
the attack in this thread.

I documented our correspondence and only made it public when you refused to ship me the items. You left a threatening voicemail and I posted that for my own safety. You secretly recorded my phone calls and posted it on YouTube and I saved and posted THAT for safety as well.


I admit, my knee jerk reaction is to fight, it's my worst trait, I know that.
Vulgarities aside, I never did anything wrong, I never tried to steal anything from this dude,
the said items were misplaced by my crew and I never even knew they existed until Adam asked about them
a month later....at which time he did so rudely with insults and threats.
That is where everything went wrong.
This could have been handled very differently if he had simply called me in the first place
instead of waging this war on me here, publically.

It is well documented how many times I tried to deal with this in private. You did absolutely nothing until I filed the BBB complaint. Just send me the parts.


If anything, this should prevent anyone from ever doing business with him as they know if there is a
dissagreement he wilk internet-terrorize them with slander and threats!

Having no course of action other than the BBB is not a threat, it's a last resort. Slander involves posting an untruth, you know, like saying I live off my wife and her parents - that would be slander. I'm asking for my stuff back.


Now that there are claims filed, letters mailed, accusations made and legal actions threatened,
this is going to delay the shipment of the items while I speak with council, review the claims, respond to
letters and etc.

If Adam had just been cooperative and patient my plan was to ship his box out on Friday along with some
free replacement parts, additional parts and other gifts.
Now it looks like that is all on hold until I look into this with more detail.

You have dragged this on for 10 days using excuse after excuse why you can't (or won't) ship me the items. Me sending a 10-day demand letter is just the latest excuse. Please send the parts, Bob.


Unless Adam is willing to talk to me on the phone, agree to drop his case amd make some revisions,
this looks like its going a different route.
Again, this is all Adam's choice.
I have been trying to send him his stuff for weeks now, since this started, if he would let me!

Bob, you have had that address this entire time. Send the items, send the items, send the items. Stop saying you're "trying to" and do it. Stop saying I won't let you (:hysterical:) and just send them already.

[DrJeff]

I love this thread. It's Flipping Vegas, Orange County choppers, and Judge Judy all rolled into one. You guys wouldn't be angling for a reality TV show would you?

NightFlyer - you're awesome
Mods - doing an excellent job

[NightFlyer]

Thankfully, you started with this as it reminded me why I should ignore everything else: He actually did fully document his work and provided new wiring schematics. The booklet is in one of the pictures in this thread. It was a "rat's nest" to Bob because it had to be removed since this was a different modification. Your judgement of the original seller and his work is astounding. You've said from the beginning that you steered people away from that car for months and you have made it a mission to "teach people a lesson" about the guy who did end up buying it. It is so far off-topic at this point a mod had to lock the thread after one of your posts. Which is why I will not go through every point further putting this off-topic. I would like it to remain open.

OK, so you've provided proof that the PO was closer to Nikola Tesla than your ordinary shade tree hack - good for you. And I never 'judged' the PO's work - I simply analyzed the evidence that you made available at the time. You just provided new evidence, which however, is still contradictory to your agreeing with Bob that it was a hack job and a rat's nest. If it was a professional and fully documented install/modification, then why didn't you state that to Bob when he mentioned it during the phone call? Instead, you agreed with him that it was in essence a disaster.

And again, what about the photo. If it was as clean and professional of an install/modification as you claim it to be, then post the photo and let others decide for themselves.

Again, your continuing to take my comments way too personally, as they're not intended as such (indicative of a pride/ego problem).

[NightFlyer]

Nightflyer keeps wondering why I went with Bob at all after I had reservations, but that's not the correct order. Furthermore, I had reservations about the seller including so many parts without an inventory list, not about Bob as a builder. Two separate issues.

For heaven's sake.

Once again, this is from your personal blog:


In April I asked Greg to email both you and me the contents of the Delorean he shipped as I was concerned you might take them and I'd have no course of action. (emphasis added)

Either that's true or it's not - which is it?

From your previous posting here


I did indeed have reservations...

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?9760-Videobob-s-Time-Machine-16-For-Adam-Kontras-in-Hollywood&p=148264&viewfull=1#post148264

Either that's true or not - which is it?

And once again there's this, in which you essentially state 'I was concerned (about Bob as a builder) because I've had other people tell me that shit is going to just pop off my car and then what do you know, shit is literally popping off my car.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuobhL6xELM

Either that's true or not - which is it?

These are all your own words/writings. I didn't make any of them up or pull anything out of my ass. And they're clearly inconsistent/contradictory with what you're now claiming.

[NightFlyer]

What on earth are you talking about? Bob never offered to drive from Dallas to Los Angeles to deliver my parts.

!?!?!? Does anyone actually read this or do they just assume based on the last page or two and spout off? Good lord people.

As Michael pointed out, Bob stated that he'd drive to LA to deal with the situation personally and put an end to it.

You interpreted that as being a threat, while others here clearly interpreted that as a legitimate offer that Bob made to personally deliver these parts to your front door.

See how the exact same things can sometimes be interpreted completely differently by people?

That's why I've been asking that you take a step back and try looking upon the situation with a completely OBJECTIVE set of eyes, but instead of trying that, you continue to be resistant to such.

[NightFlyer]

Amazing how things can get so crazy over a box of parts which honestly should have been inventoried when they came in the car in the first place.

Morally, ethically, and from the perspective of smart business - ABSOLUTELY.

Legally though, there was no duty on Bob to inventory these parts when they were shipped to his shop at Adam's direction. The only legal duty that exists on Bob is to remit all property owned by another that's in his possession back to the rightful owner either upon request or as soon as is expedient. That's it.

[NightFlyer]

I hadn't checked this thread because I understood it was locked.
Anyway, I had agreed to send Adam's box-o-junk to him, but he wanted me to first try to find some of the other items.
I told him we would be busy out of the shop shooting scenes for my TV show and then I had to go out of town for a gig. He wanted to finally talk on the phone but everytime I called he didn't answer.

I asked for the $1 Paypal to generate an automated shipping label but he couldn't do that.
I was ready to ship the box but I didn't have his info.
Then he gave me an alternate address different from his home address with someone else's name on it.
I told him that I want it to go to him, his address and only him to sign for it, since he is threatening all this legal action towards me.
It has always been Adam who has held up this proccess!

Furthermore, I return to the original issue, why wasn't this stuff mentioned when he was at my shop and home
for 3 days? We could have settled up on it then.
Instead of calling me and talking to me about it, he puts together a 3 page blog, 2 YouTube videos and
the attack in this thread.
I admit, my knee jerk reaction is to fight, it's my worst trait, I know that.
Vulgarities aside, I never did anything wrong, I never tried to steal anything from this dude,
the said items were misplaced by my crew and I never even knew they existed until Adam asked about them
a month later....at which time he did so rudely with insults and threats.
That is where everything went wrong.
This could have been handled very differently if he had simply called me in the first place
instead of waging this war on me here, publically.

If anything, this should prevent anyone from ever doing business with him as they know if there is a
dissagreement he wilk internet-terrorize them with slander and threats!

Now that there are claims filed, letters mailed, accusations made and legal actions threatened,
this is going to delay the shipment of the items while I speak with council, review the claims, respond to
letters and etc.
If Adam had just been cooperative and patient my plan was to ship his box out on Friday along with some
free replacement parts, additional parts and other gifts.
Now it looks like that is all on hold until I look into this with more detail.

Unless Adam is willing to talk to me on the phone, agree to drop his case amd make some revisions,
this looks like its going a different route.
Again, this is all Adam's choice.
I have been trying to send him his stuff for weeks now, since this started, if he would let me!

Stop with excuses - because quite frankly, it's all BS at this point.

It does you NO GOOD (from a legal perspective) to sit on these parts. Get them shipped ASAP.

No more BS - just do it.

If Adam wants to file claims after-the-fact regarding alleged missing items, you'll have to deal with that regardless.

As far as where to ship it: ship it to his personal address and addressed to him personally, with signature verification. If he decides not to accept it, that's his own issue, but it alleviates you of your legal duty, as you then took every reasonable measure to get him the property that you do have. Keep your receipts from the post office.

Get it?

So do it already - no more BS!

[DMCMW Dave]

I wasn't going to check in on this one, but will mention that is a minor pet peeve of mine - we get cars in here all the time with everything from car covers to lawn furniture to last years groceries in the trunk and behind the seats. It is a bit of an effort to remove all this stuff from the car, box it up, label it, put it on the shelf, and then remember to put it all back months or more later when the car leaves. Anything left in cars is either in the way of either electrical work or fuel pump/brake work, so it always has to be removed. We don't catalog "personal effects" to the individual piece, it just all ends up in a box that eventually goes back in the car. Sometimes we miss that and end up shipping it out later.

PS we also retain ALL bad parts removed from cars, also in boxes with owners' names on them, until the car leaves as once I a while we find someone who wants all the original parts, no matter how gruesome (not sure what you'd do with a set of old head gaskets or a rusty fuel pump, but it happens!).

PPS - we do throw out food.

[NightFlyer]

Slander involves posting an untruth, you know, like saying I live off my wife and her parents - that would be slander.

Actually, there's A LOT more to it than that - and BTW, if it's in writing it would technically be libel, not slander (orally). Both are under the legal course of action known as making a claim for defamation of character.




You have dragged this on for 10 days using excuse after excuse why you can't (or won't) ship me the items. Me sending a 10-day demand letter is just the latest excuse. Please send the parts, Bob.


Bob, you have had that address this entire time. Send the items, send the items, send the items. Stop saying you're "trying to" and do it. Stop saying I won't let you (:hysterical:) and just send them already.

Fully agree with you - at this point, all the excuses are BS.

@Bob - get what you have shipped ASAP.

Simple.

[OverlandMan]

I wasn't going to check in on this one, but will mention that is a minor pet peeve of mine - we get cars in here all the time with everything from car covers to lawn furniture to last years groceries in the trunk and behind the seats. It is a bit of an effort to remove all this stuff from the car, box it up, label it, put it on the shelf, and then remember to put it all back months or more later when the car leaves. Anything left in cars is either in the way of either electrical work or fuel pump/brake work, so it always has to be removed. We don't catalog "personal effects" to the individual piece, it just all ends up in a box that eventually goes back in the car. Sometimes we miss that and end up shipping it out later.

PS we also retain ALL bad parts removed from cars, also in boxes with owners' names on them, until the car leaves as once I a while we find someone who wants all the original parts, no matter how gruesome (not sure what you'd do with a set of old head gaskets or a rusty fuel pump, but it happens!).

PPS - we do throw out food.

^This

[NightFlyer]

I wasn't going to check in on this one, but will mention that is a minor pet peeve of mine - we get cars in here all the time with everything from car covers to lawn furniture to last years groceries in the trunk and behind the seats. It is a bit of an effort to remove all this stuff from the car, box it up, label it, put it on the shelf, and then remember to put it all back months or more later when the car leaves. Anything left in cars is either in the way of either electrical work or fuel pump/brake work, so it always has to be removed. We don't catalog "personal effects" to the individual piece, it just all ends up in a box that eventually goes back in the car. Sometimes we miss that and end up shipping it out later.

PS we also retain ALL bad parts removed from cars, also in boxes with owners' names on them, until the car leaves as once I a while we find someone who wants all the original parts, no matter how gruesome (not sure what you'd do with a set of old head gaskets or a rusty fuel pump, but it happens!).

PPS - we do throw out food.

EXACTLY - thank you Dave :smile:

And this just goes to show that had Adam taken a few simple pro-active steps from the beginning, that he could have avoided the situation all together.

Essentially, this situation is akin to taking your car (any car, and not just a DeLorean) to Macco for a brake job, leaving $5,000 in cash on the passenger seat when tendering possession of the car to Macco's slightly more than minimum wage paid employees, and then complaining about your $5k missing when they return your car to you, even though you have no empirical proof that the $5k ever existed or the actual dollar amount that was actually present on the seat. Honestly - WHO DOES THAT?!?!?!

To simply avoid such a potential situation from occurring, don't leave your $5k (or extra parts, or food, or any other personal effects that have value to you) in the car when you tender possession of it to a service provider - it's that SIMPLE. Or, at the very least have empirical proof of exactly what you have in the car and its condition, so that if a problem does arise, you'll be in a superior position to be able to deal with it. Again, this is common sense and it's SIMPLE.

Why Adam continues to deny that he could have acted differently to prevent the whole mess from occurring is quite simply beyond me. He's too wrapped up in the BS (threats, videos, back-and-forth tit-for-tat, ego, pride) to take a step back and realize the objective reality of what had occurred.

And yet, that's EXACTLY what others who are following this thread should take away from the whole situation.

This doesn't mean that Bob is right in continuing to sit on the parts that he does have - the last post from Bob was a load of pure BS. He needs to get them shipped immediately.

[Michael]

As Michael pointed out, Bob stated that he'd drive to LA to deal with the situation personally and put an end to it.

You interpreted that as being a threat, while others here clearly interpreted that as a legitimate offer that Bob made to personally deliver these parts to your front door.

See how the exact same things can sometimes be interpreted completely differently by people?

That's why I've been asking that you take a step back and try looking upon the situation with a completely OBJECTIVE set of eyes, but instead of trying that, you continue to be resistant to such.

Actually i was just being an ass. It most definitely was a threat...albeit an empty one. An overweight guy with pencil arms doesn't come off as threatening even when he uses the F word as an adjective, noun, verb, and pronoun.

[NightFlyer]

Actually i was just being an ass. It most definitely was a threat...albeit an empty one. An overweight guy with pencil arms doesn't come off as threatening even when he uses the F word as an adjective, noun, verb, and pronoun.

Yeah, I knew what you were doing, but I think that Rich may have interpreted such literally, which is still a completely reasonable interpretation of the situation (especially if going off of what Bob merely posted here, as opposed to seeing the same in the video).

As to the rest of your comment - AWESOME :approve:

[OverlandMan]

I motion we promote Dave S @ DMCMW to the honorary title of "DeLorean Jesus".

[DeLorean03]

Mods - doing an excellent job

Thank you - really - I do mean it.

This has been a tough call to leave open, close, and re-open. Honestly, none of the mods have consulted with each other; we're independently watching this thread. I feel it benefits the community on multiple levels, and while it does suck to see name calling and nasty words going back and forth - ultimately - this thread shows a lot of "what not to do" ... "how to do things better"... and really shows what some people are capable of in this community.

[Kane]

I love how Adam keeps saying "I didn't want to file a BBB claim but I had no other choice" as if a BBB claim does anything at all. The BBB is a non-enforcing record of business feedback. They can't do anything about a business that has 1000 bad reviews. It does nothing except serve as an old school Yelp. Plus, in this day and age who still looks up BBB records for a business? You might as well file a complaint with the Kiwanis club for all the good it will do you.

And Nightflyer and Bob... let's stop rehashing what people should have done 3 months ago. Adam is an idiot and Bob is a moron. They both deserve each other. But saying woulda coulda shoulda is pointless.

Bob is hiding behind the whole "but I can't ship now because I have to consult counsel because of what Adam is doing." That is just trying to make you come off as better while still not shipping the parts. "I was totally going to ship them with all sorts of free stuff on top of it and a pony and a golden toilet, but now I can't because wah wah wah." :bawling::bawling::bawling: Just like how Bob likes to throw out the whole "I was going to refer thousands of dollars in gigs to you, but now I won't because you are a meanie meanie poop head."

Ship the box or throw the box away.

Adam has shown his true colors in playing the victim card way, way too hard. Bob has shown how much of an asshole he is by threatening and insulting a customer (even though there are years of evidence, already).

I suggest to anyone thinking about doing business with Bob and having made it this far in the thread to do one thing: RUN AWAY AS FAST AS YOU CAN!

But it won't matter. Bob is only interested in reality shows and A-List celebrities who don't know the difference. He would probably give a discount to someone just so he has another name to drop. Pathetic.

[DMCMW Dave]

EXACTLY - thank you Dave :smile:

.

Someday when I'm bored I'll start a thread of "weird stuff people leave in cars".

Some of you may recognize yourselves.

[NightFlyer]

Someday when I'm bored I'll start a thread of "weird stuff people leave in cars".

Some of you may recognize yourselves.

Just as long as you don't bring up the dead male hooker that was stuffed in the luggage compartment of my car :nana1:

[Rich_NYS]

Yeah, I knew what you were doing, but I think that Rich may have interpreted such literally, which is still a completely reasonable interpretation of the situation (especially if going off of what Bob merely posted here, as opposed to seeing the same in the video).

As to the rest of your comment - AWESOME :approve:

I didn't think it was a legitimate offer to deliver the parts, but I would've made a legitmate counter-offer to show up at his front door and proceed from there....

[NightFlyer]

And Nightflyer and Bob... let's stop rehashing what people should have done 3 months ago. Adam is an idiot and Bob is a moron. They both deserve each other. But saying woulda coulda shoulda is pointless.

Then the entire thread would be little more than a back-and-forth, with no interjection of an actual greater/deeper objective takeaway.

I agree that for the parties involved, at this point, it's worthless. But for others looking to take their cars to a service provider (any and not just Bob), there's an opportunity to learn some valuable life lessons here, which I've been more than happy to point out.

While you may think that the thread should have been nothing more than Adam vs Bob, that's not the point of a community discussion forum such as this.

[NightFlyer]

I didn't think it was a legitimate offer to deliver the parts, but I would've made a legitmate counter-offer to show up at his front door and proceed from there....

Ah - I see now. You would have reacted to hostility and adversity with humility and proceeded to try and get to a resolution while setting aside all the other BS.

I 100% fully agree with you (having made the same point myself multiple times, albeit using different words), however Adam still refuses to acknowledge that he could have conducted himself any differently.

Again, this is a good take-away for those who might be looking to actually learn something from this thread, as opposed to just merely being entertained by the proceeding circus.

Great point Rich :approve:

[Silverbullet]

Ok... This Could have been fixed really easy....

It seems Bob's wife cleaned out the car... and Adam Stayed with Bob for a few days... "IF" he had asked Bob's wife what she did with his stuff... Problem solved...

Craig

[videobob]

Actually, it was my mechanic Jack's wife and a few of the people in the crew who cleaned the stuff up.
I have Jack, Omar, Fry, Logan, Aubrey, Brandy and Rachel all helping me along with others who drop in sometimes.
Now that I know exactly how it went down I can explain it better.

The majority of this stuff was in a cardboard box in the passenger seat.
That box was set aside.
Most of the other stuff in the trunk was considered "trash".
They made a "trash pile" of dirty papers, empty boxes (because some people save the box to everything)
and stuff like that.
They asked me if they should throw that stuff out. I said "yes".
I never saw the other cardboard box and other items.
This stuff got put upstairs in the loft, covered with trash bags to protect them from dust.
It blended in with all the other junk up there.

When Adam came to pick up the car and mentioned some stuff being inside, I said...
"Um, there was some trash and boxes in there, we threw it out"... it was still in the trashcan next to the car.
He didn't ask about it again.
That was the end of the subject, I thought.
Had he inquired with his "list" we could have explored it further and I could have found the stuff for him and
the HONEST MISTAKE could have been avoided.

Where the shit hit the fan was this,
Before Adam contacted me to rehash the subject, he put together a 3 page account on his blog along with a video on a "locked" page.
He sent me a message telling me I was a "thief" and I had ripped him off, etc. etc., and if I didn't meet all his demands he would unlock the page
and release the video, etc...
My mistake was being insulted by this and I did in fact tell him to "Fxxx off", etc.
Because frankly, I don't like being accused of things and then extorted.

I tried to call Adam to work it out.
He refused to talk to me on the phone and said he only wanted emails for a "legal record of his lawsuit".
So at this point I was pretty furious.
Mind you, this all transpired in a matter of MINUTES.
Then he decides to post the blog and videos anyway.
That is when I left him the angry voice mail.
And, yes, I have driven to LA to handle things like this with other people.
I have done it before and boy was that guy shocked to see me in his driveway, the situation was handled and we went for sushi.
Anyway,.....
This entire thing could have been avoided if Adam had just called me on the phone to talk about it and if I hadn't jumped the gun
and reacted like an asshole, cause I did, I admit that.
But being defensive and sensitive does NOT make me a thief.
I didn't steal anything from this dude and I didn't deserve this public witch hunt.
I did a great job on his car on a crazy timeline for a good price.
He was happy with it and his car would beat any competitors car at a judging competition for quality and accuracy anytime
and I doubt he would dispute that.

As far as our working relationship goes, my staff and wife could tell you that it was the most difficult case of micro-managing
I have ever dealt with in my life.
Constant text messages, in the hundreds, daily, as he demands photos of every square inch of work that he would critique and judge
and request changes for, phone call after call going into the early AM.
All the way to the point that he flew into Dallas and stayed at my house and watched over us like a vulture with a video camera
to make sure everything was how he wanted it.
Now after all this and he forgets the list of stuff?

I have a great relationship with all my customers and we stay in contact all the time.
I am as gracious as I can be with them but I am someone with a lot of pride and I don't like to be challenged on it.
The one thing I am teaching myself now is to only deal with real people in my life and understand that all the lip flapping internet trolls
out there don't matter a bit. They are not my customers or my friends and never will be.
So who cares?

As for Adam and his box, I will get it taken care of.
I have just been very busy!!!

[Ryan]

http://i.imgur.com/DiYSLGb.gif

[NightFlyer]

This entire thing could have been avoided if Adam had just called me on the phone to talk about it and if I hadn't jumped the gun
and reacted like an asshole, cause I did, I admit that.

I wasn't going to comment further in this thread, but as I've been admittedly critical of the way that both sides have handled themselves in this situation, I thought that it was only fair that I also recognize when one of the parties does something right.

This is the first bit of humility that I've seen from either side.

It's also quite clear that the original act (of failing to return the parts with the car) was indeed an honest mistake, with no malicious intent ever having been present - it happens.

The biggest problem, and that which caused this situation to turn into what it did, was in how BOTH sides conducted themselves after-the-fact when confronted with the situation - just as I've always maintained.

And hopefully, both sides will learn from this experience and take preventative/corrective measures in the future so as to avoid further situations from ever occurring in the first place.


As for Adam and his box, I will get it taken care of.
I have just been very busy!!!

No doubt that you're busy, but the time for reasonable delays/excuses is running thin on this one.

Prioritize it and get the parts shipped back to Adam - easy, simple, done.

Your next response to the forum should be swift and should simply state - 'parts shipped today, Adam in receipt of tracking number, everyone's content again.'

Do it.

http://www.sobernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/benStillerDoIt.jpg

[AdamKontras]

Got a little more info on the missing parts from the original seller and I thought the community would be interested in seeing them. Thankfully it has lowered the replacement costs and should help Bob in putting everything together for the shipment:


http://store.delorean.com/c-314-8-5-1-rear-bumperfasciadeflector-plates.aspx
Part 106733, "Air Deflector Plate (Left)"

I guess it doesn't have the *purpose* of covering the accumulator and filter, but that's where it lives, and I guess it's job is really to improve aerodynamics.

When I put it in the car, I put it into a couple of hefty bags (i.e. one bag didn't cover the whole length), to try and protect the interior (part was dirty). It's a large-ish piece of sheet metal, cut and bent to fit in that spot, with some trim around one of the cut-outs for cable / hose routing protection.

And here's the box for the alarm (it was new in this box) so this should also be easier to spot:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-WAY-KEYLESS-CAR-ALARM-SYSTEM-REMOTE-ENGINE-STARTER-CA908A/161348002809

Especially glad he explained that the Air Deflector Plate was already in two garbage bags to protect the interior. Should be far easier for Bob or his crew to find now.

[NightFlyer]

I guess it doesn't have the *purpose* of covering the accumulator and filter, but that's where it lives, and I guess it's job is really to improve aerodynamics.

When I put it in the car, I put it into a couple of hefty bags (i.e. one bag didn't cover the whole length), to try and protect the interior (part was dirty). It's a large-ish piece of sheet metal, cut and bent to fit in that spot, with some trim around one of the cut-outs for cable / hose routing protection.[/INDENT]

Not only does it not have the purpose of covering the accumulator or fuel filter, but it actually doesn't cover EITHER of them. As the name implies, it's mostly an air deflector, with the secondary purpose being to protect the trailing arm from road debris and exposure to weather conditions (although this function may be of dubious benefit, as they can also act to trap debris and moisture against the TA). In a previous post, I inquired as to whether it was really the air deflector / TA shield that you were referring to.

So are you missing just the driver's side deflector/shield or both?

Also are you certain that Bob didn't install this piece onto the car?

FYI - many owners remove these from their cars and run them without them, thus, used ones only have a marginal value.

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?1341-Anybody-that-still-runs-dustshields-on-their-D-is-a-GOSHDARN-COMMIE

As to the alarm, $80 is a far cry from the $180 that you were previously claiming that it was worth...

So, the big question is this - if he can't find these two items, what's your position going to be regarding them?

[Silverbullet]

Actually, it was my mechanic Jack's wife and a few of the people in the crew who cleaned the stuff up.
I have Jack, Omar, Fry, Logan, Aubrey, Brandy and Rachel all helping me along with others who drop in sometimes.
Now that I know exactly how it went down I can explain it better.

The majority of this stuff was in a cardboard box in the passenger seat.
That box was set aside.
Most of the other stuff in the trunk was considered "trash".
They made a "trash pile" of dirty papers, empty boxes (because some people save the box to everything)
and stuff like that.
They asked me if they should throw that stuff out. I said "yes".
I never saw the other cardboard box and other items.
This stuff got put upstairs in the loft, covered with trash bags to protect them from dust.
It blended in with all the other junk up there.

When Adam came to pick up the car and mentioned some stuff being inside, I said...
"Um, there was some trash and boxes in there, we threw it out"... it was still in the trashcan next to the car.
He didn't ask about it again.
That was the end of the subject, I thought.
Had he inquired with his "list" we could have explored it further and I could have found the stuff for him and
the HONEST MISTAKE could have been avoided.

Where the shit hit the fan was this,
Before Adam contacted me to rehash the subject, he put together a 3 page account on his blog along with a video on a "locked" page.
He sent me a message telling me I was a "thief" and I had ripped him off, etc. etc., and if I didn't meet all his demands he would unlock the page
and release the video, etc...
My mistake was being insulted by this and I did in fact tell him to "Fxxx off", etc.
Because frankly, I don't like being accused of things and then extorted.

I tried to call Adam to work it out.
He refused to talk to me on the phone and said he only wanted emails for a "legal record of his lawsuit".
So at this point I was pretty furious.
Mind you, this all transpired in a matter of MINUTES.
Then he decides to post the blog and videos anyway.
That is when I left him the angry voice mail.
And, yes, I have driven to LA to handle things like this with other people.
I have done it before and boy was that guy shocked to see me in his driveway, the situation was handled and we went for sushi.
Anyway,.....
This entire thing could have been avoided if Adam had just called me on the phone to talk about it and if I hadn't jumped the gun
and reacted like an asshole, cause I did, I admit that.
But being defensive and sensitive does NOT make me a thief.
I didn't steal anything from this dude and I didn't deserve this public witch hunt.
I did a great job on his car on a crazy timeline for a good price.
He was happy with it and his car would beat any competitors car at a judging competition for quality and accuracy anytime
and I doubt he would dispute that.

As far as our working relationship goes, my staff and wife could tell you that it was the most difficult case of micro-managing
I have ever dealt with in my life.
Constant text messages, in the hundreds, daily, as he demands photos of every square inch of work that he would critique and judge
and request changes for, phone call after call going into the early AM.
All the way to the point that he flew into Dallas and stayed at my house and watched over us like a vulture with a video camera
to make sure everything was how he wanted it.
Now after all this and he forgets the list of stuff?

I have a great relationship with all my customers and we stay in contact all the time.
I am as gracious as I can be with them but I am someone with a lot of pride and I don't like to be challenged on it.
The one thing I am teaching myself now is to only deal with real people in my life and understand that all the lip flapping internet trolls
out there don't matter a bit. They are not my customers or my friends and never will be.
So who cares?

As for Adam and his box, I will get it taken care of.
I have just been very busy!!!

Ah,,,, Bob your post from 6-18 ...Page 4 and 12 lines down..."My wife and my workers girlfriend help clean up.
They piled this stuff in a box and put the trash aside for me to check"

If I want to find something... I ask My wife...You should too....

Craig

[videobob]

* I was not there when the car was delivered.
* I was not there when the car was cleaned out.
* I was not there when the parts were put away.

I don't ask questions about things I don't know happened.
Furthermore, when the time came for the client to preview the car, it's construction and contents,
the items were overlooked and not inquired about fully until a month later, at which time I can't recall
every minute of every day, especially those minutes that I didn't witness or know even happened.

[mr2nut123]

Was there a glue gun in there too?

[jdubb0567]

BOB great work really nice can't wait to give ya shout and talk about you building one of these for my brother and I
Justin~

[videobob]

28771

OK, after working things out with Adam, we scoured my 5000 sqft shop of shelves, storage and lofts and managed to find or replace almost everything on the list except for a few items that were thrown out.
Funny thing is, I didn't know that one of my guys, Jack, who is a hopeless hoarder, actually pulled some of this stuff out of the trash and took it home!
I forgot that he does this and it annoys me, so I usually take a sledge hammer to stuff I don't want him taking home!
But fortunately this time it actually helped me.
We found the floor mats as actually we have a few sets of them as well as a lot of other parts that we yank from most cars and replace with new stuff.
I absolutely HATE black mats on gray carpet, but, whatever...
So today I sent Adam two large boxes, one is 50lbs and the other 25lbs.
Cost me $120.00 in shipping and about $20 in materials and maybe another $120 in man hours to gather and box up, etc.
But, they are shipped and hopefully I am done with it.
This whole thing could have been avoided if Adam had reviewed his list while on the property and made sure all this was settled up on when he was here and taking acquisition of the car.
I certainly reacted badly to the way he requested the stuff, because he was pretty hostile in the way he confronted me about it causing me to be the same.
I would have to say that ALL parties involved were at fault here.
I shouldn't have to be the baby sitter of all his junk being shipped to my shop, he should have followed up on the stuff while he was here and I would have been on top of
it if I had only known about it all, since it was all put away with me over seeing the stuff.
I only saw the stuff still attached that I removed and "threw away". (IE the small VGA screen).
I suppose Adam was so blown away by the car we built him the other stuff slipped his mind, that is understandable I guess..... again, we all played a role of fault in this.

The tracking numbers are public and the two boxes should be delivered in the next few days or early next week and hopefully he will be satisfied with all the stuff.
I have done my best to make his car the best I could and return his stuff, all of his stuff.
So, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Let's move on shall we?
Thanks.

[NightFlyer]

Thank heavens that's finally resolved :thumbup:

A little more BS in the response than we needed, but at least it's done and over with.

For the record, you knew that the car was being shipped with a cache of parts before you agreed to accept the car for the conversion, thus you either implicitly or expressly assented to caring for and eventually delivering the parts. If you don't want to have to undertake such a burden in the future, then don't agree to such before hand, and make such an express term of your written contract for accepting delivery of a car - it's that simple. Even if you didn't expressly agree to such this time, the fact that you were made aware that the car was being delivered to your shop with the parts, and that you didn't reject delivery of them, shows an implicit acceptance on your behalf, thus burdening you with legal duties, whether you like it or not. So, now you know.

While Adam isn't completely innocent here, as was already pointed out, the biggest error in this whole mess was in fact committed by you. And whether you want to admit to it or not, you're the one who elevated this into the mess that it became. It doesn't matter how hostile Adam was when he approached you about wanting the parts back. If you were as secure in your pride/ego/reputation as you claim to be, then you should have swallowed it, kept your cool, kissed the guy's ass, and as soon as reasonably possible assembled his parts and got them shipped out, period. Had you done that, there would have been a lot less drama. But you didn't. Instead, you got defensive, fired back, and made an ass of yourself in the process.

Given the business of false quasi-celebrity-ism that you're both in, who's to say whether or not this whole debacle actually helped or hurt your respective images/reputations overall. Certainly, all I can offer is that to anyone with a half brained, it definitely harmed both of you, but I also accept that there are a lot of idiots in this world, thus who's to say for sure. Certainly, not me.

All we can hope going forward is that you both learned something, but given the responses from both of you, I sincerely doubt it, unfortunately....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_J2OJel1YhX0/TCjW6ntnKLI/AAAAAAAAAYE/X2mihAnkWjg/s1600/end.bmp

[Jonathan]

Thank heavens that's finally resolved :thumbup:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_J2OJel1YhX0/TCjW6ntnKLI/AAAAAAAAAYE/X2mihAnkWjg/s1600/end.bmp

Yes!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_j5tDuakKU

[Michael]

28773

[videobob]

Here are a few videos that Adam had posted on his blog, documenting seeing the car and meeting me...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ak0wnTWZqo
(Meeting the Time Machine)

[videobob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIghY7Ld74Y
(Hanging out with Videobob)

...everything was peachy.

[Rich_NYS]

Nice party room, I like your guitar collection. Priest/Maiden was the first concert I went to.

Which model axe bass is that....one of the newer ones? A friend of mine has one of the 1000 Kramer's from back in the 80's.

[videobob]

Nice party room, I like your guitar collection. Priest/Maiden was the first concert I went to.

Which model axe bass is that....one of the newer ones? A friend of mine has one of the 1000 Kramer's from back in the 80's.
The AXE is a Cort, the heavy one!
I just recently got my ACE Epiphone signed by ACE, working on getting the Fractured Mirror signed by Paul.

Here is my collection in a Facebook album:
https://www.facebook.com/videobobtv/media_set?set=a.10152061846166779.1073741826.71749 1778&type=3

[ALEXAKOS]

...everything was peachy.
until he realized his D should have had 77 LBS more in it....

[Kane]

VideoBob... staying classy even when attempting to be humble... "Yes, we were both at fault here... but it actually was only Adam's fault... Or maybe I can blame my employees. But one thing's for sure... It was definitely Adam's fault."

[videobob]

You know Dave, (Kane).
Ever since you first started contacting me on 05/15/13, I answered all of your million questions, friendly and thoroughly.
Even after wasting hours of my time and going with someone else,
I offered to help you with free information on the best ways to rent your car and get business
and also offered you potential gigs through my network.
I have been nothing but nice and friendly to you even though you pose a competition to me,
yet, for no reason what so ever, you are just a dick to me.
I've never done anything wrong to you except answer your questions and try to assist you.
Why are you such an asshole?

[Totally 80s]

I've never done anything wrong to you except answer your questions and try to assist you.
Why are you such an asshole?

It's a question for the ages. Why are nerds so mean to one another?

[Michael]

Why are you such an asshole?

Every asshole needs an ass.

[Rich_NYS]

RE: post #212


Everyone has a different way of saying things; no matter how it's said, it's gonna be different from how someone else might say it. To me, the important thing is that it's sincere, and it looks to me like he's "keeping it real." Add to that, this whole situation was kept "open book" for the whole community to see. I thought it was pretty good of these guys to let it play out on the forum. I think most of us gained something from it, there was a lot of interest in this thread and they could've taken it to PM's.

Bob is part of the community and he let it roll the way it did....I think that showed a lot of "community spirit" and a set of balls not to run & hide when held to the fire. Compare that to the guy who owns a Delorean but trash-talks another guy's car (Matt F.)

[Michael]

RE: post #212

Add to that, this whole situation was kept "open book" for the whole community to see. I thought it was pretty good of these guys to let it play out on the forum.

I especially liked the part of the phone call where Bob demanded that everything not be taken down.
It was good of VB to allow all this to stay up.

[mr2nut123]

http://www.gbfans.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=27212&start=420

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxYREvtB-VxPR1Jid3NiU1FsZEU/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxYREvtB-VxPT1ZxV3Q3TW9JRU0/edit

:closedtop:

[ALEXAKOS]

http://www.gbfans.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=27212&start=420

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxYREvtB-VxPR1Jid3NiU1FsZEU/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxYREvtB-VxPT1ZxV3Q3TW9JRU0/edit

:closedtop:

Holly crap! Literally! (there is a dried turd scrape on "SpongeBOB's" toilet bowl in the vid.)

How poor of self esteem and burning jealousy must one be to make such childish videos????:banghead:
I pity the fool!

well since the cat is out of the sack... I call him spongeBOB cause he recently sent a Mr. Fusion Base out to Germany 3 Months ago.
I am telling you this was so poorly casted it looked like Edam cheese. Full of craters and rough badly shaped edges.
Due to its look like a sponge we named him SpongeBOB's props :giddy:

[mr2nut123]

Holly crap! Literally! (there is a dried turd scrape on "SpongeBOB's" toilet bowl in the vid.)

How poor of self esteem and burning jealousy must one be to make such childish videos????:banghead:
I pity the fool!

well since the cat is out of the sack... I call him spongeBOB cause he recently sent a Mr. Fusion Base out to Germany 3 Months ago.
I am telling you this was so poorly casted it looked like Edam cheese. Full of craters and rough badly shaped edges.
Due to its look like a sponge we named him SpongeBOB's props :giddy:

That bit probably got caught in the rest of the sh#t coming out of his rear and dropped away from the water. Also, his pee was like a kids, it's no wonder he kept his little chipolata out of view.

Great that you've shared (yet another) awful experience, but please don't insult SpongeBob. He's done nothing wrong here and deserves far more respect than that numpty.

[Rich_NYS]

http://www.gbfans.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=27212&start=420

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxYREvtB-VxPR1Jid3NiU1FsZEU/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxYREvtB-VxPT1ZxV3Q3TW9JRU0/edit

:closedtop:


Yeow.....

[videobob]

Those videos to Gary was sent as a private text message, he was the one who made it public, it was all part of the what lead up to Bob Gale publicly
calling Gary out for all of his shenanigans, he used passwords fished from his website to break into other people websites, namely the Time Machine Restoration
Team's site, which is where he got all that amazing information he likes to share with people on his page.... because really, where else would he get it?
You can read about it here: https://www.facebook.com/timemachinerestoration/posts/511100322295959
The part of the video you don't see is the 10 years of bullshit I got from Gary, the insults to me, my family and friends, how he pretended to be part of
my staff and called up my suppliers to try to steal parts and information. How he faked letters to certain people with fake emails and anonymous accounts, etc.
So yeah, there are a handful of people on this planet that I hate to the death. Gary is one of them.

[Gary Weaver II]

You are so completely full of sh#$...

While it would be mildly entertaining to call you out on EVERY lie you just posted - I don't see the point and frankly have so many better things to do with my time.

That ANYONE would believe your fantasies is beyond me.

Stay classy, lowlife.

-Gary

[Kane]

You know Dave, (Kane).
Ever since you first started contacting me on 05/15/13, I answered all of your million questions, friendly and thoroughly.
Even after wasting hours of my time and going with someone else,
I offered to help you with free information on the best ways to rent your car and get business
and also offered you potential gigs through my network.
I have been nothing but nice and friendly to you even though you pose a competition to me,
yet, for no reason what so ever, you are just a dick to me.
I've never done anything wrong to you except answer your questions and try to assist you.
Why are you such an asshole?

Hours wasted to write 2 emails to me (consisting of 14 questions, of which 8 were answered)? Wow, you must be a lot dimmer than I thought. I don't know what van you learned how to run a business in, but a person who asks questions does not owe you anything, Bob. Answering the questions of potential customers is the cost of doing business. I went with a competitor namely because of this exchange in one of those two emails:


* Also, as I do live in Seattle, rain and weather are a concern for me. I am assuming that with all the customizations, it would be a bad idea to take it out in the rain. Is there any sort of protection that is available so that I could take it out in the rain (or at least worry less about any sort of moisture causing damage).

Deloreans suck in the rain.
Save it for sunny days.


This was at the time that you didn't weather seal the rear bulkhead of your conversions. That, by itself, was an indicator of the poor workmanship that you put into your conversions. Did you really wonder why I didn't throw thousands of dollars at you after that?

And you didn't want to help with information on how to rent my car out. You wanted to collude on price fixing the market.

And how gracious and generous of you to be friendly to the competition. You deserve a gold star for that one. You have shown me how wrong I am to merely exist. I have seen the errors of my ways.

Fuck off, Bob.

[Kane]

And here is the best video of yours:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYOxrK-mYyw&t=1m30s


We've removed the rear window, put in a custom bulkhead system. Now, the unfortunate thing is that it's not weather-proof, but this is exactly how they did it in the movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYOxrK-mYyw&t=11m24s


To access the engine, you either have to remove the lower section of the vents or dislocate the hinges and pull the whole thing off. It's not too difficult, but luckily this car runs good enough that you won't need to get back there very often.

This video was made two years before my email and you still hadn't started weather-proofing the bulkhead. And this was the famous Auction Kings car that you love to highlight to your customers.

[videobob]

Kane,
Car number 6, the Auction Kings car, had a screen accurate rear bulkhead and rear deck,
the screen used car was not weather proofed in any way, it was wide open in the passenger rear. We built that one and only car this way.

All of the other cars I have done have been completely water proofed on the rear window.
We either covered the rear window with an aluminum cover, or we replaced the window with a two piece aluminum panel that is sealed with a rubber gasket,
further sealed with silicone and locked in place with brackets, clamped to the interior rear bulkhead with a layer of foam to insulate in between them.
They have always been completely weather proof.
Car number 11 had this feature, built in January of 2013, before you contacted me.
We now do all of our cars this way.
Maybe you need to watch THIS video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMsmlPHxpN4

When I told you that "Delorean's suck in the rain", I wasn't referring to leaking, although I have yet to ever find a Delorean that DOESN'T leak from the doors.
But I was referring to the way they handle in the rain. They have smaller front tires with less weight up front, no ABS or traction control and panic stops
in water with a Delorean will hydroplane and render the car totally uncontrollable.
Go try it. I recommend it.

I never said you owed me anything, I only said I have only ever been friendly to you and you have been nothing less than a cock meat sandwich.

[NightFlyer]

When I told you that "Delorean's suck in the rain", I wasn't referring to leaking, although I have yet to ever find a Delorean that DOESN'T leak from the doors.
But I was referring to the way they handle in the rain. They have smaller front tires with less weight up front, no ABS or traction control and panic stops
in water with a Delorean will hydroplane and render the car totally uncontrollable.
Go try it. I recommend it.

My car doesn't leak from the doors, and I've been in the rain with it plenty of times to find out :)

Never had to panic stop in water with my car, as I don't drive it like an ass. But the absence of ABS and traction control doesn't make it a bad / uncontrollable design. It just means that the driver should know what they're doing and react accordingly - such as pumping the brakes instead of standing on them, counter-stearing when rapid stopping in standing water, etc.

To drive any old car as if it were a new car and expect it to react/perform like a new car is wholly unrealistic and completely moronic. This is something that only a true idiot would do.

You can either adapt your driving habits to the abilities of the car, adapt the car to your preferred driving habits, or act like a complete and total shlep rock and expect the car to perform as you want it to while driving it like a modern car without any adaptations and then bitch about it after-the-fact when it doesn't because it was never designed to do so.

Just be aware that when you do the third, as you've done here, you're making yourself look like a total ASSHOLE to any real car guy.

Just sayin....

[ALEXAKOS]

Are you guys seriously still responding to spongeBOB's childish comments?

Gary was right. Its a complete waste of time even thinking to respond.

He obviously needs ABS, traction control, esp, OnStar and every single other driving assistance to drive his car "SAFELY" at 40MPH.

Let him buy a VW Jetta and drive safely to the mall get sodas, video games etc.

After seeing those videos... private or not... hopeless case: CLOSED!

[videobob]

I also have a 1963 Cadillac convertible that I drive, it also sucks in the rain.
Despite being a factory made vehicle in the hundreds of thousands, it slides all over the place in the rain and no matter how tight you
clamp down the roof, with enough rain or a car wash you will get a little water in it.
So let me also add that 60's Cadillac Convertibles also suck in the rain.
My Harley Davidson also sucks in the rain, even with my full body rain suit, it still sucks.

Now, luckily you got the most perfect Delorean ever made and you drive it like a Sears driving instructor with a cop trailing behind him, that's great...
but when I was going 35MPH in a down poor and a guy in a BMW changed 3 lanes to pull in front of me and then stomped his brakes to make a left turn,
I pumped the brakes. I turned the wheel. Know what happened?
The car actually sped up, hydroplaned and was utterly useless and I ran right into the back of him.
I will say that the impact was soft, little damage to the BMW.
$10,000 in damage to the Delorean.

So when it's gonna be bad weather, I leave the Delorean and Caddy at home and I take my Dodge.

As far as my Time Machine conversions go, there are as watertight as you can get a custom show car should be...
It's a prop, it's a show car, I recommend to my customers that they don't drive it in bad weather.
But, do what ever you want... good luck with that.


My car doesn't leak from the doors, and I've been in the rain with it plenty of times to find out :)

Never had to panic stop in water with my car, as I don't drive it like an ass. But the absence of ABS and traction control doesn't make it a bad / uncontrollable design. It just means that the driver should know what they're doing and react accordingly - such as pumping the brakes instead of standing on them, counter-stearing when rapid stopping in standing water, etc.

To drive any old car as if it were a new car and expect it to react/perform like a new car is wholly unrealistic and completely moronic. This is something that only a true idiot would do.

You can either adapt your driving habits to the abilities of the car, adapt the car to your preferred driving habits, or act like a complete and total shlep rock and expect the car to perform as you want it to while driving it like a modern car without any adaptations and then bitch about it after-the-fact when it doesn't because it was never designed to do so.

Just be aware that when you do the third, as you've done here, you're making yourself look like a total ASSHOLE to any real car guy.

Just sayin....

[Project Vixen]

I wasn't referring to leaking, although I have yet to ever find a Delorean that DOESN'T leak from the doors.

Just an FYI, but my car doesn't leak from the doors, nor any of the others in PADMC, and we've all gotten caught in some pretty big downpours at our tech sessions and the like.

[mr2nut123]

http://s29.postimg.org/s7dx05z13/Screenshot_2014_07_14_22_43_27.png

"VB might be a bell end, but he's family and I love him very much, it's official"

[AdamKontras]

I received the two boxes Bob shipped and can confirm the following were included:

$47.58 New Coil
$56.97 New 8mm spark wires
$18.13 New Bosch Platinum 4 prong plugs
$27.50 New Cap
$15.95 New Rotor
$27.44 New O2 Sensor
$10.56 New PCV Valve
$18.99 New Fuel Pump Harness for alternative VW 909 Pump
$34.88 Spare Belts
$49.94 Original RPM relay as backup
$108.39 Panel that covers fuel accumulator and fuel filter
$15.00 Reproduction Owners Manual
$149.50 Good floor carpets
$5.98 Couple of Jumper Wires
$120.14 New Backlit, Electroluminescent Gauge cluster, LEDs
$199.98 2 Bass tubes
$129.00 Lillput navigation screen
$179.95 Car Alarm with door poppers
$39.99 New Horns
$9.95 R134a Variable Orifice Tube (current system is R12)

$1,265.82

The following items are outstanding:

$9.95 Radio Remote Control Admitted you had, did not include
$159.99 Rear Pioneer Speakers Taken out for mod, whereabouts unknown
$63.07 New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key Admitted you couldn't find them
$89.90 Working original window switches Not in box

$70.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Front Admitted you had, but threw out
$140.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Back Admitted you had, but threw out
$36.95 Fire extinguisher Admitted you had, but threw out

$569.86

I'm satisfied with the 70% of items that were finally shipped, however there was nothing extra in the box as compensation for the items he admitted throwing out nor any attempt to replace them. I will take the next few days to talk with everyone involved to see what a proper resolution is. For the time being, case #14002922 with the Duncanville Police Department is still open as $569.86 is still a good deal of money to walk away from. I'm sure we'll come to a resolution soon.

I'll continue to update this thread with any future information.

[Kane]

Nightflyer, please resist the urge to repeat your lecture again

[Michael]

Nightflyer, please resist the urge to repeat your lecture again

Please don't make the mistake of thinking anything you say carries any weight with anyone.

[videobob]

Adam,
again with the forum?
We were handling this privately and being friendly...
And, after all this bullshit, do you really think I would hold out on your for these little items?
I find it rather sneaky how you change gears with me in private and basically "brush off" all this other stuff,
knowing all along those items are not going to be delivered because we discussed it all via text messages, and that only after me and my crew spend a full day
packing it and shipping it, do you then come here and also send me a private email to tell me I owe you almost $600
(the maximum retail value of broken and used parts) or else you will continue your harassment of me?
Pretty uncool dude.

Let's review the list of complaints.

The remote control - I thought it was in the box, if not, I will look for it again.
I will send it if I find it.
It's value, $5-$10 tops.

The speakers, we discussed this a million times, the cones were shot, you could see through them, we threw them away.
So even if you had them now, they would have no value.
I assure you, if I had them or another pair like them, you could have them.
As a matter of fact, next set we pull out, is yours if you want them!!!
As an example, here is a brand new in the box set of the Craig Speakers that recently sold on eBay at auction,
the set, front and rear, fetched all of $26.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DeLorean-Craig-Front-And-Rear-Speakers-/131168233943?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item1e8a3c69d7&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=KlR%252FC%252BuRF2hQF0A%252Bf7mETuUG5V8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Lug Nuts?
We discussed this, they never showed up.
We never saw them.
You should consider the possibility that maybe, the list you had was flawed and some of this stuff never made it in the first place!!!
There is no proof that I ever got them and if I did, I would surely give you your $20 worth of lugnuts.
They are NOT worth $60 what ever dollars as you claim, they are about $1.50 each or less.
Value? A set of 20 Chrome Lug Nuts for a Honda (Delorean) are less than $20 at my local Pep Boys.

Window Switches?
Again, we never saw them.
We used the working switches that are in your car now.
The cardboard box of parts that was in the car was simply dumped into the large gray tote that we used to store the stuff, with the lid on it, that matched
the other 100 or so that are upstairs, which is why I didn't notice anything different.... anyway, if it wasn't in that box, it didn't make it into the tote.
We simply dumped the tote into the cardboard box, but chose to wrap certain items to protect them.
So what I am saying is... much like the lugnuts, maybe they were on the list by mistake, because I didn't take them and never got them?
I do however have some old switches laying around, maybe you can have those if you want them so badly?
The new lighted replacement switches that you have in the car now are much better than the old ones.
There is a reason people replace them you know.
I have sold them in the past, but I don't bother anymore because they only fetch about $20 a pair on eBay.

Fire Extinguisher?
We are talking about a tiny little bottle, the kind you put in your kitchen, they average about $10 at Home Depot.
The $36 versions are the 10lb units you hang on a wall.
I know because I have one in every room, inspected by the Fire Marshall each year.
When they expire I have to replace them.
Yours was expired.
In your best interest, I threw it out to save you from having a defective unit on hand in an emergency.
I remember telling you, "You need to get a Fire Extinguisher and keep it in the car at all times".
I shouldn't be responsible for your expired consumables that should be replaced.
I did what was in the best interest of your safety and discarded it to protect you.
You're welcome.

My estimate for these items are less than $100.
Does anyone else agree?

Considering all the extra things I paid for concerning you, picking you up and dropping you off at DFW airport ($50 in gas and tolls)
Letting you stay at my house for 3 days instead of spending $100+ per night at a local hotel.
Taking you to the Dallas ComicCon ($40)
Feeding you at several restaurants and at my house for 3 days where you snapped off my shower head and then left a huge mess in the other bathroom and then left the water dripping for a week.....
Giving you lots of free props, (Sports Almanac $40, Little Brass Clock $50, etc.)
Not to mention the tons of upgrades we did on your car that we didn't charge you for, including all the electrical work we did on your Delorean
that we should have billed you shop rate of $50 per hour for (DMC is $110 per hour I think).
Considering ALL that stuff... can't you be happy with what you got, what we did and simply move on already?
Or is it that really, you just want a war with me to get attention?


I received the two boxes Bob shipped and can confirm the following were included:
The following items are outstanding:
$9.95 Radio Remote Control Admitted you had, did not include
$159.99 Rear Pioneer Speakers Taken out for mod, whereabouts unknown
$63.07 New set of Lug Nuts with optional Lock Nuts and Key Admitted you couldn't find them
$89.90 Working original window switches Not in box
$70.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Front Admitted you had, but threw out
$140.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Back Admitted you had, but threw out
$36.95 Fire extinguisher Admitted you had, but threw out

$569.86
I'm satisfied with the 70% of items that were finally shipped, however there was nothing extra in the box as compensation for the items he admitted throwing out nor any attempt to replace them. I will take the next few days to talk with everyone involved to see what a proper resolution is. For the time being, case #14002922 with the Duncanville Police Department is still open as $569.86 is still a good deal of money to walk away from. I'm sure we'll come to a resolution soon.
I'll continue to update this thread with any future information.

[NightFlyer]

I fully agree with Bob's $100 estimate on the value of the un-returned property. And quite frankly, Adam would be hard pressed to receive even that as an award from a small claims court considering the evidence that the forum has been privy to, as was previously analyzed in detail with complete reasoning/support given for the decisions arrived upon.

For $100, I'd personally let it slide, especially if what Bob says about all the comps/extras that he provided to Adam is indeed true/accurate, which Adam personally confirmed during one of those video'd phone call conversions, thus, I fully accept Bob's accounting of them as being 100% complete and factual.

At this point, I have to agree with Bob in that this appears to be turning into a ploy for nothing more than continued attention. You guys and your quasi false celebrity-dom, and its reliance upon the old adage that there's no such thing as bad publicity. It's something that only works when you prey upon the ignorant and stupid. But it's not going to work around here - sorry.

On the up side, I'm starting to see a little more humility from the two players in their posts/responses to each other (at least there's no more finger pointing and name calling going on anymore), thus it's possible that they might be learning something from this experience (even if it is only a slight sliver of what each should be taking away from this) - one can only hope....

[Kane]

I fully agree with Bob's $100 estimate on the value of the un-returned property. And quite frankly, Adam would be hard pressed to receive even that as an award from a small claims court considering the evidence that the forum has been privy to, as was previously analyzed in detail with complete reasoning/support given for the decisions arrived upon.

For $100, I'd personally let it slide, especially if what Bob says about all the comps/extras that he provided to Adam is indeed true/accurate, which Adam personally confirmed during one of those video'd phone call conversions, thus, I fully accept Bob's accounting of them as being 100% complete and factual.

At this point, I have to agree with Bob in that this appears to be turning into a ploy for nothing more than continued attention. You guys and your quasi false celebrity-dom, and its reliance upon the old adage that there's no such thing as bad publicity. It's something that only works when you prey upon the ignorant and stupid. But it's not going to work around here - sorry.

On the up side, I'm starting to see a little more humility from the two players in their posts/responses to each other (at least there's no more finger pointing and name calling going on anymore), thus it's possible that they might be learning something from this experience (even if it is only a slight sliver of what each should be taking away from this) - one can only hope....

And there it is...

[NightFlyer]

And there it is...

You know it sweet thang :biggrin:

[AdamKontras]

Funny, I haven't been on this thread in over a week, I simply updated with what I got (something I promised this board I would do) and now I'm the one looking for attention? <shrugs>

Anyway, I'm gonna continue talking with a few people and find the best way to proceed. I wrote to Bob privately on how to work the remainder of this out and he decided to bring it back here. Whatever gets us to a resolution is fine with me.

[NightFlyer]

Funny, I haven't been on this thread in over a week, I simply updated with what I got (something I promised this board I would do) and now I'm the one looking for attention? <shrugs>

Anyway, I'm gonna continue talking with a few people and find the best way to proceed. I wrote to Bob privately on how to work the remainder of this out and he decided to bring it back here. Whatever gets us to a resolution is fine with me.

But all you had to do was state that the property was received, issue resolved to your satisfaction, and that you were moving on. But you didn't fashion your return in such a way.

Instead, you proceeded to go into nickel/dime -ing over the last little bit of un-returned property. Property that you were previously made aware of the ultimate disposition of such. The entire rest of the board knew that a few items weren't getting returned because Bob no longer had them, hence the previous question I posed to you about how you would approach such, as it was inevitable, which you never bothered to responded to. Either you weren't paying attention then, you were conveniently ignoring reality for your own reasons, or there's an ulterior motive now at play for resurrecting this in the manner that you've chosen over such a trivial amount.

Thus, we apparently still have an issue to work out - so let's do it.

The remainder of the un-returned property was valued by you at $570, which is completely unrealistic. Bob valued the same at $100, which I personally agree with based on the evidence and surrounding circumstances.

Now, if Bob was a stand-up businessman, he would have offered to convey that $100 to you. He didn't do that in his post, but I understand that there was some private communication over the matter as well.

Let's make that $150 just so you can feel content about the settlement.

If Bob agreed to covey to you $150 to forever be done with any and all claims pertaining to the entirety of the spare/excess parts pertaining to this transaction, would you agree to accept such in exchange for your agreement to forever releasing, waiving, and holding harmless Bob and his business from any remaining liability, known or unknown, as to such parts?

This is someone's chance to look like the reasonable party here:

Bob - offer Adam the $150. This is smart business.

Adam - agree to accept the $150 according to the terms above.

Then this bullshit will finally be done and over with. Note that this wouldn't in any way affect any warranty/guarantee made on the conversion, anything pertaining to such, either directly or indirectly, or anything else that is wholly unrelated to the spare/excess parts that have been discussed in this thread.

Fair enough gentlemen?

[DMCMW Dave]

$70.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Front ...........
$140.00 Working Original Craig Speakers Back ...........

My 2 cents worth - -
There is no such thing. OE Speakers that were in a car are all deteriorated and now junk. DMCH was selling off NOS speakers maybe 9 years ago at $35 for the whole set, new in box.

The window switches are doubtful.