opinion wanted

[PeterBiggerstaff]

Hi Guys,

Please excuse me if this isn't the correct place for this post, but I wanted some opinions.

There is a DeLorean that has been for sale for a while, so I asked the owner about it.

The car looks immaculate, and is in Holland. The owner has said he can't afford to re-insure it so it has to go.

The weird thing that I don't like though, is he said he will take $13,000USD for it, and even ship it to New Zealand for that price.. (shipping from USA is around $8,000USD, not sure about Holland)...

It gets even weirder that he has said he will ship to me, then only if I like it I pay for it, if I don't like it He'll get it returned at his own expense.

The catch is, he won't let me use my own shipping company, or ESCROW as he says he has been burnt by that in the past, he'll only ship using a company he chooses..

Does this sound really strange? that someone who can't afford the insurance is happy to waste money shipping a car to and from NZ, or am I just being really paranoid?

I guess the paranoid thing I have is that I'll get the car, pay for it... then it get reposessed?

--Pete

[MML]

Seems dodgy to me; you know the saying... if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!

[Michael]

"Sometimes there is only one choice to make and you thank God when it is so clear."

[David T]

"Sometimes there is only one choice to make and you thank God when it is so clear."

He can't afford to insure it but he will ship it at his own expense and sell it below market value. Does anything about this deal make sense? Let's see how this works. You send him cash. Now what happens? My bet is the car is never shipped anywhere so of course he will say he will have it shipped back at his own expense. That is the "hook" to get you to send the money. You are right in trying to have the money held by a third party until you are satisfied. The only safe way is to go get the car, pay cash and then have it shipped yourself. If he is that willing to pay to have it shipped back he should deduct the cost of shipping 1 way from the purchase price. Tell him that and see what happens. My bet is he will find some stupid reason you can't come and buy the car and then have it shipped. No way can you let a seller have your money AND the car.

[Jimmyvonviggle]

I heard this many times, it is obviously fraudulent. I think you know that. So just walk away.

[PeterBiggerstaff]

The thing he is saying though is he will ship the car first, then I pay if I am happy with it after it has arrived...

I agree though, something just isn't adding up with this car, the car is for sale on a lot of different sites:
http://www.adpost.com/us/vehicles/1021964/

http://car.mitula.us/offer-detalle/42052/99953867307196093/9/1/delorean-california/Autoexplosion?cc=1

I've asked for a scan of the title, his Drives License and the VIN number


He can't afford to insure it but he will ship it at his own expense and sell it below market value. Does anything about this deal make sense? Let's see how this works. You send him cash. Now what happens? My bet is the car is never shipped anywhere so of course he will say he will have it shipped back at his own expense. That is the "hook" to get you to send the money. You are right in trying to have the money held by a third party until you are satisfied. The only safe way is to go get the car, pay cash and then have it shipped yourself. If he is that willing to pay to have it shipped back he should deduct the cost of shipping 1 way from the purchase price. Tell him that and see what happens. My bet is he will find some stupid reason you can't come and buy the car and then have it shipped. No way can you let a seller have your money AND the car.

[Kenny_Z]

It has popped up on here too: http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?8078-81-5sp-manual-for-sale-VIN-4724-23k-miles-25-000

[Elvis]

typical scam, this shit shows up every few weeks.

[SIMid]

Alarm bells all over this. I bet payment will be through Western Union.

Research through the European Delorean owners and see if they know of this car. There aren't many over there.

Google search the pics you sent you. You may end up finding them belonging to another D. If so, you know he's FOS.

I know you're busting to get one, but think clearly with your head, not with your heart.

[chris williams]

SCAM, but you can play with him! Point out DeLorean.eu is in Holland and would like to come and check it out, the list of excuses will be endless, heck we even had someone try it on Ebay UK this weekend.

Chris

[PeterBiggerstaff]

Thanks for the feedback guys, the more I looked into this, the more things wern't adding up.. If I was selling my car there is no way I'd ship it somewhere for free, and expect the new owner to pay AFTER he receives it.

the fact he doesn't want me to arrange shipping and use escrow worried me too, so based on that, the fact he still hasn't send me any of the documentation I asked for and the opinions from you guys, I think I'll carry on watching cragslist for a project car in my budget where I can arrange the shipping and escrow myself.

Thanks again for taking the time to look at this.

[john 05141]

Sounds weird to me too, but plenty of guys here on the forum that will gladly go check it out for you.
Depends where in Holland, I live South of the Nehterlands and if not to far I can help you out.

I'd be very very carfeul.

Jan

[Dangermouse]

It's a scam Peter.

The DMCTalk forum member from San Franscisco CA had it listed on ebay last year and that where the photos are from.

The latest owners Directory has it located south of Los Angeles, presumably with the new owner.

Of course it is possible that it has since moved to Holland, but unlikely. $13k is way too cheap as you can see it sold for $24k.


I replied to an ad once for a car with pictures that looked like they were in an Atlanta suburb, but surprise, surprise, when I asked to see it, the car was suddenly in Spain, but the buyer was fine shipping it to me and if I didn't like it, I wouldn't have to pay. (Now, honestly, what owner would take on such a cost?).

"Luckily" I was to be in Spain the following week and offered to test drive it, but, again, suddenly, it was already in a container at the docks and couldn't be taken out - sorry. One lie after another, it was quite entertaining. Eventually he got pissed off at me "wasting his time" LOL.

You should definitely offer that you will have someone go view the car and see what he says (and report back of course)

[robvanderveer]

hey it's not even a Dutch license plate, and every bit of it of that curb picture shouts non-Dutch.

[Flicky]

Well, the car had emissions done in CA on Oct-7-2013. The guy is just telling you things to keep you interested. He will ask for money eventually with some idiotic story. He might ask for $1,000 so he can put tires on it. His job is to find a way to get you to send him money, that is all he lives for. With 75% of the world effectively making less than $5,000US a year, with growing availability of free internet, and a birth rate 3 times higher than their self-sufficient counterparts; it is just a matter of time.

Here is the Carfax history:
Date: Mileage: Source: Comments:
02/22/1994 17,461 California
Inspection Station
Belmont, CA
Failed emissions inspection
01/26/1996 17,958 California
Inspection Station
Belmont, CA
Failed emissions inspection
03/06/1998 18,293 California
Inspection Station
Belmont, CA
Passed emissions inspection
02/17/2000 18,308 Service Facility
Belmont, CA
Vehicle serviced
02/17/2000 California
Inspection Station
Belmont, CA
Passed emissions inspection
03/03/2000 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Millbrae, CA
Title issued or updated
04/04/2002 18,337 Service Facility
San Francisco, CA
Vehicle serviced
04/04/2002 California
Inspection Station
San Francisco, CA
Passed emissions inspection
01/23/2004 18,354 California
Inspection Station
Passed emissions inspection
01/24/2006 18,370 California
Inspection Station
Passed emissions inspection
03/12/2008 18,509 California
Inspection Station
Passed emissions inspection
03/11/2010 22,087 California
Inspection Station
Millbrae, CA
Passed emissions inspection
03/09/2012 22,827 California
Inspection Station
Millbrae, CA
Passed emissions inspection
01/11/2013 23,014 Hanlon Tire
San Bruno, CA
650-952-3521
Tire(s) balanced
10/07/2013 23,692 California
Inspection Station
Millbrae, CA
Passed emissions inspection

[PeterBiggerstaff]

Thanks Guys, I was 80% leaning to the 'sounds like a scam' side of things.. but after hearing what you said I'm giving this one a wide birth.

Back to cragslist!

[Flash66]

He can't afford to insure it but he will ship it at his own expense and sell it below market value. Does anything about this deal make sense? Let's see how this works. You send him cash. Now what happens? My bet is the car is never shipped anywhere so of course he will say he will have it shipped back at his own expense. That is the "hook" to get you to send the money. You are right in trying to have the money held by a third party until you are satisfied. The only safe way is to go get the car, pay cash and then have it shipped yourself. If he is that willing to pay to have it shipped back he should deduct the cost of shipping 1 way from the purchase price. Tell him that and see what happens. My bet is he will find some stupid reason you can't come and buy the car and then have it shipped. No way can you let a seller have your money AND the car.


+1

[Nicholas R]

This is the most ridiculous scam ever. Just mess with him until you get bored, then ignore him. I've done it many times with scammers.

[sapphirexae]

Don't walk, RUN away from this. It has scam all over it.

[MartyP]

Like the others said !

SCAM !

[dn010]

I've sold many, many cars to overseas buyers. The first thing I do as a seller - have THEM arrange all stages of shipping (you can help as a seller by suggesting companies and discussing transportation to the port etc); why should I go out of the way if someone wants to buy my car but lives overseas? For me, I will help where I can but ultimately it is not my responsibility.

The buyer make the arrangements and once the car is paid for and shipping is in order (company will contact you with details so you'll know its all set up), I bring it to the port or it gets shipped from my house (transfers to my bank account only - no checks, money orders etc.). I've never been burned, but had many wary buyers of course - it's hard to trust someone when your so far away but with a buyer protection, deals worked out.

Like everyone else says, it is a typical, old scam. No one would ever, ever bring their car that they spent their hard earned money for, pay even more to ship it away overseas, without being paid for it already.

Also like others said, once you can identify a scam, it is rather fun to play along with them until you get bored, I have to admit.

[PeterBiggerstaff]

Fully agree Dan,

The shipping company I have in mind also have escrow which is even better... the fact that this seller didn't want to go though escrow was my first red flag.


I've sold many, many cars to overseas buyers. The first thing I do as a seller - have THEM arrange all stages of shipping (you can help as a seller by suggesting companies and discussing transportation to the port etc); why should I go out of the way if someone wants to buy my car but lives overseas? For me, I will help where I can but ultimately it is not my responsibility.

The buyer make the arrangements and once the car is paid for and shipping is in order (company will contact you with details so you'll know its all set up), I bring it to the port or it gets shipped from my house (transfers to my bank account only - no checks, money orders etc.). I've never been burned, but had many wary buyers of course - it's hard to trust someone when your so far away but with a buyer protection, deals worked out.

Like everyone else says, it is a typical, old scam. No one would ever, ever bring their car that they spent their hard earned money for, pay even more to ship it away overseas, without being paid for it already.

[dn010]

Fully agree Dan,

The shipping company I have in mind also have escrow which is even better... the fact that this seller didn't want to go though escrow was my first red flag.

If you're in the market, I'd suggest finding one that either yourself, or someone else who knows Deloreans can go look at for you, check out and take more pictures of because generally you'll only get a few in an ad. Then you'll know what you're getting and have piece of mind that someone who knows the car checked it out for you and would report whether it is a good deal or not.

[PeterBiggerstaff]

Thanks for the advice Dn010... I'm in New Zealand and because of shipping (going to cost around $8,000USD to ship one from the US by the time you add on tax, port charges etc) my current budget at this stage is only around $10,000 USD, so I'm looking for serious project car that will take me a few years to restore.

[TTait]

Of course it is possible that it has since moved to Holland, but unlikely. $13k is way too cheap as you can see it sold for $24k.


Total scam - 100%. at some point you would have been asked for banking information, or been asked to send some small amount of money for a fee that you would have to pay for it to all be legal, something like that. This is the same scam as the Nigerian banker asking you to please let him send you $800,000 to get it out of the country...

Its also really dumb to say its a car in Holland. The market there is priced higher than in the US. The same car is worth more in Europe than it is in the US - simple Supply and Demand.