Concourse V. Concours V. Word Choice V. Spelling V. Helping V. OT BS

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Originally Posted by Iznodmad

Nobody cares enough to prep a car anymore. It is a ton of work and it takes forever to score a car.

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I think most owners are not afraid of the work, a lot of us have untold hours in our cars. I can only speak for me but I don't feel I need validation from a bunch of uptight strangers. Case in point. My friend has a certified concours car who was at (DCS 14 or 16 I believe). He has a string attached to his passenger torsion bar. It was put there by one of the POGS (Chris Duvall) in 1981 as a reminder to replace a part they borrowed off that car(one of many). It's a heck of a story and the fact that the string survives still intact and on that car to this day is quite cool in it's own right. I believe that Chris himself remembered tying the string and actually saw the very car at DCS(I may not be remembering this 100% correctly but I do know the POGS verified the string history).

Anyway when his car was being judged he was told by some judge to remove the string or be docked points. I think the attitude he encountered from the judges put a bad taste in his mouth and may be the reason people were being begged to enter in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Michael

I think most owners are not afraid of the work, a lot of us have untold hours in our cars. I can only speak for me but I don't feel I need validation from a bunch of uptight strangers. Case in point. My friend has a certified concours car who was at (DCS 14 or 16 I believe). He has a string attached to his passenger torsion bar. It was put there by one of the POGS (Chris Duvall) in 1981 as a reminder to replace a part they borrowed off that car(one of many). It's a heck of a story and the fact that the string survives still intact and on that car to this day is quite cool in it's own right. I believe that Chris himself remembered tying the string and actually saw the very car at DCS(I may not be remembering this 100% correctly but I do know the POGS verified the string history).

Anyway when his car was being judged he was told by some judge to remove the string or be docked points. I think the attitude he encountered from the judges put a bad taste in his mouth and may be the reason people were being begged to enter in the first place.

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I agree with this sentiment.

I prepped Ken's car for the DCS '08 concours judging because Ken was too busy (running the entire show), and I spent hours and hours detailing every little thing. The little things that the judges dinged the car on felt ridiculous. Like a tiny bit of dust on the screens of the engine cover - Boom there goes half a point. This carpet piece isn't perfectly secured with all XX mounting points - boom point. Had it been my car I'd have never had the energy to go through it again. I get that concours judging is about perfection, but it really just taught me how little I actually care about perfection, haha.

For either the DCS '10 or '12 show (I cant remember which), there was a concern that there wouldn't be enough cars to hold a concours judging, so Cliff Schmucker handed me the concours manual and told me to run through the Johnny Carson car and do whatever I could to get it ready. Cliff figured it may get a bronze at best. I spent multiple nights cleaning and swapping out parts for nicer parts. In the end there were enough cars so Cliff pulled it. I was happy to do the work and wasn't bothered that it didn't get judged, but again, that much effort to judge against "perfection" just seems difficult to justify.

EDIT: According to the Millennium Concours website, Ken's car got 374/400 at DCS 08 which was the highest his car ever scored - so maybe I didn't do such a bad job prepping it, haha: http://deloreanmarquecertification.com/page10.html

Concours (sp) is not just about the cars being judged. It sets the standard for ALL cars of that marque to be judged by and helps to set values. Any serious Marque will have concours judging. The rules may seem arbitrary and picayune but that is the way it is done. Yes, prepping a car is a ton of work but that is what it takes. I figure it takes a year to prep a car for concours and it has to be a #1 car to begin with. If you don't like the rules you can voice your opinion or don't enter. Prepping begins with memorizing the rulebook and comparing your car against it. Besides all the time you will spend prepping your car, consider all of the time the volunteer judges spend. They have to learn the rulebook, the meetings, and the time spent actually judging the cars. It is a LOT of work. Concours is certainly not for everyone but it is an important part of what the Delorean Marque is for collectors.

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Originally Posted by David T

If you don't like the rules you can voice your opinion or don't enter. .

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Done and done.

Attachment 67127

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Originally Posted by David T

Concours (sp)

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Attachment 67128

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is not just about the cars being judged. It sets the standard for ALL cars of that marque to be judged by and helps to set values.

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How could it? As has been mentioned, there hasn't been some a competition in many years. And the number of cars that come up for sale (at least in public) that are candidate concours cars is vanishingly small.

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Any serious Marque will have concours judging.

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This would be an obvious instance of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

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Concours is certainly not for everyone but it is an important part of what the Delorean Marque is for collectors.

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Maybe that was true long ago, but from what I can see, collectors seem to value low-mile, "stock" cars (in whichever definition you care to place with that) in the small number of high end auctions that go to such
people. Perhaps they are spending a fortune on returning such cars to concours (on my car, back in the 90s, the price tag was $30K), or perhaps they are contacting dealers to restore cars they have to
such states, but in either case, there's no visibility on such cars.

Being that concours-as-driver is expensive, inconvenient, and unsafe for the average DeLorean owner, maybe now there is an opportunity to purchase vehicles for this express purpose and sells shares as an investment?

Of course there will be yearly fees necessary to maintain the investment and cover costs required to travel and display at shows, documentation, etc., but this is necessary to help maintain the value of the marquee. The vehicles will be stored at the investment firms private garage, of which some venture capital would be necessary for me, er I mean, for the investment group to construct and reasonably outfit.

As a premium, for those willing to go beyond mere "common stock" (and with modest forfeiture to hold and complete supporting documentation), investors could adopt specific parts of the car that hold personal significance. One LH door grab handle preserved for eternity in loving memory of Uncle Jimbo. One full share of each left & right rear hub carrier, to be named "Bert and Ernie" per the desires of the shareholder. Have your family portrait laser engraved on the clutch release fork (109.95 plus adoption fees and retail part costs).

Interested parties with vast sums of surplus cash and a high tolerance for risk, please contact directly.

Who would have thought I could start such a interesting and informative discussion by spelling concours wrong. You guys can Thank me later.

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Originally Posted by David T

Concours (sp) is not just about the cars being judged. It sets the standard for ALL cars of that marque to be judged by and helps to set values. Any serious Marque will have concours judging. The rules may seem arbitrary and picayune but that is the way it is done. Yes, prepping a car is a ton of work but that is what it takes. I figure it takes a year to prep a car for concours and it has to be a #1 car to begin with. If you don't like the rules you can voice your opinion or don't enter. Prepping begins with memorizing the rulebook and comparing your car against it. Besides all the time you will spend prepping your car, consider all of the time the volunteer judges spend. They have to learn the rulebook, the meetings, and the time spent actually judging the cars. It is a LOT of work. Concours is certainly not for everyone but it is an important part of what the Delorean Marque is for collectors.

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Attachment 67130

Forgive me Dave, but how did you win a 1st Place DeLorean Marque Concours in 1998, when based on the DeLorean Marque Concours history, it was not established until 1999? http://deloreanmarquecertification.com/

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History

Millennium, the DeLorean Concours is the standard for judging the DeLorean automobiles for correctness as per the intent of the designer, engineers and factory. Ten events have been held in the United States and abroad since the DeLorean Motor Company created the Millennium standard for judging DeLorean automobiles in the summer of 1999 with at least one national level event per year. Regional/local events have not yet been held, but are planned for the future as "qualifying" for events on a national level.

Using memorandums, purchase orders, telexes, part and service bulletins and other documents from the original DeLorean Motor Company, the most comprehensive Judging Manual in the history of DeLorean car shows was written. After the first event in St. Louis in October of 1999, the manual was revised slightly and with the assistance of the judges at that event, the judging sheets were completely re-written to maximize efficiency.

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Originally Posted by Helirich

Who would have thought I could start such a interesting and informative discussion by spelling concours wrong. You guys can Thank me later.

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Attachment 67131

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Originally Posted by Helirich

Who would have thought I could start such a interesting and informative discussion by spelling concours wrong. You guys can Thank me later.

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...that be the case, don't you owe MrChocky apology??