3.0l bottom end/2.8 heads and valvetrain question

[Barney10186]

Hey all got a question here. was thinkin bout sandwiching a 3.0 bottom end in the D, but retaining the stock heads while doing so. with the 3.0 even fire bottom end, what type of valvetrain gear issues will i be up against? can i use the odd cams? the even 3.0s? Idk you all tell me....lol. someone school me here

[BABIS]

Hey all got a question here. was thinkin bout sandwiching a 3.0 bottom end in the D, but retaining the stock heads while doing so. with the 3.0 even fire bottom end, what type of valvetrain gear issues will i be up against? can i use the odd cams? the even 3.0s? Idk you all tell me....lol. someone school me here

if you use the 2.8 heads you have to use even the 2.8 liners (and pistons) ..

[DMCVegas]

Crank also has to be matched to cams since 3.0 is even-fire, and 2.8 is odd. 3.0 also does not have a provision for an adjustable distributor on it's cams.

[Barney10186]

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?77...or-premier-prv

[Josh]

it is my understanding if you want to make it even fire (complete 3.0 bottom end) you need to install the 3.0 cams in the 2.8 heads. However the drives side cam does not have a gear for the distributor. I have heard of a guy grafting this gear to a 3.0 crank and he had a k jet 3.0! Another way you can go is just drop in the entire 3.0 as is and drill out the head and graft the cam gear on the cam and install the 2.8 distributor. If you want to use your carb maniforld it needs intake spacers (1/2" I think) in the head intake ports. EIther way some work is involved. the 3.0 is a "dumb" distributor as it has no rpm output or vacuum advance. Another thing you could do is leave everything as is and run an ignition computer. You could run coil pack ignition and install a ford edis unit for spark management. Then plunk your carb on top. Would be a weird setup but I think it could work.

edit: edis will run at 10btdc all the time without any computer. So it will start but run like shit. and drive like shit. It needs a computer to tell it to advance the spark. Still i think this method would be cool, never done before.

[Barney10186]

it is my understanding if you want to make it even fire (complete 3.0 bottom end) you need to install the 3.0 cams in the 2.8 heads. However the drives side cam does not have a gear for the distributor. I have heard of a guy grafting this gear to a 3.0 crank and he had a k jet 3.0! Another way you can go is just drop in the entire 3.0 as is and drill out the head and graft the cam gear on the cam and install the 2.8 distributor. If you want to use your carb maniforld it needs intake spacers (1/2" I think) in the head intake ports. EIther way some work is involved. the 3.0 is a "dumb" distributor as it has no rpm output or vacuum advance. Another thing you could do is leave everything as is and run an ignition computer. You could run coil pack ignition and install a ford edis unit for spark management. Then plunk your carb on top. Would be a weird setup but I think it could work.

edit: edis will run at 10btdc all the time without any computer. So it will start but run like shit. and drive like shit. It needs a computer to tell it to advance the spark. Still i think this method would be cool, never done before.

Interesting, wonder if the odd fire crank will work with the 3.0 crankcase? Anyone done that one? although josh i like the idea of just running the new ignition side like you said to avoid all the cam gear nonsense. im trying to find the most practicle combination of parts that jive together. i feel like mix-n-matching.

[DMCVegas]

I have seen that conversion of moving the distributor gear over to a 3.0 cam. that is tons, and tons of work and not really worth it.

Now the one thing that I am honestly not sure of, and this is what I would ask someone who has a cracked one of these open would be the following:

1. Are 3.0L Cylinders compatible with 2.8L Heads.
2. Are 3.0L Connecting Rods Compatible with the 2.8L Crankshaft?
3. Is the 2.8L Crankshaft compatible with the 3.0L Upper Crankcase?

I don't see what the problem with the pistons and cylinder heads would be. The displacement is marginal, but it's there. The real question would be if you had to swap those connecting rods out, and if the crank is a direct swap.

If the cranks cannot be swapped between blocks, that's no big deal. What you would do is use the 2.8L block in it's entirety. Then just swap over the 3.0L Pistons, Sleeves, and Crankshafts. From there you just have to see if the Connecting Rods on the 3.0L Pistons will connect to the 2.8L Crank. If not, you're gonna have to swap them out. If yes, no big deal.

You should still be able to get a Carb Conversion kit from over in the UK which includes the manifold and everything. It's meant for the 2.8L Alpine engine.

Off the top of my head, I don't know what the rod lengths, pistons sizes, or even the displacement of the cylinder heads are between the engines. So when swapping heads, I'm not sure what the final displacement or compression ratios will be though. Such a conversion should be around $2,000 or so to complete. That however is just the start. Really it should be a bit higher because you're going to want to port and polish those heads up and install some performance cams to extract even more power. Which depending would probably be another $3,000 or so. That still doesn't even figure in a proper exhaust either. But in the end I don't know what the gains would be to tell you if it would even be worth it compared to the cost. When you start looking at the work that has to be done, and the price of parts, DMCH's Stage II engine upgrade really does show itself as an honest price. The only difference in between is the labor.

The 3.0L engines have been around for about 26-17 years or so. I would think that if there were such an easy conversion to build the engine, someone would have figured it out by now and we'd probably all have it in our cars. Not that I'm trying to discourage you, but hey, I'd say to explore it more and see what you can do.

[outatym2001]

Hey all got a question here. was thinkin bout sandwiching a 3.0 bottom end in the D, but retaining the stock heads while doing so. with the 3.0 even fire bottom end, what type of valvetrain gear issues will i be up against? can i use the odd cams? the even 3.0s? Idk you all tell me....lol. someone school me here

I highly DO NOT recommend it but if you are doing all the work yourself then all you have to lose is your time and money.
I have been driving the set-up you describe (3.0 liter bottom end with the original DeLorean 2.8 liter heads and intake) for thirteen (13) years. Yes, thirteen years. I mentioned the engine transformation and the name of the shop that did the combining of two engines into one thirteen years ago on the DML (DeLorean Mailing List) but the links I had were no longer of any good.
I have put on about 100,000 miles on this modified engine in the past thirteen years.

The camshafts are a higher lift cam and who made them or where they came from before being installed in my Frankenstein engine I have no idea. The camshaft for cylinders 4,5,6 had to have a special gear ground onto it to make it work for this even fire engine set-up.
I have to use a MAHLE OC 142 oil filter.
My fuel injectors are Bosch 0437502013.
My fuel distributor is from some thing? It’s a Bosch unit and has the numbers on the exterior label 0 438 100 105.
My electrical distributor cap and the rotor, which is for an even fire engine, came from somewhere? I lost that information but there is a number on the exterior of the cap. The cap is not at all easy to get to so I don’t know If I will ever look for that number. The base of the cap has to be grounded off to expose the single tab that sticks downward. That tab sits in the slot of the metal housing on top of the electrical distributor. A steel hose clamp holds the base of the cap so it remains centered on top of the distributor or the cap will not stay exactly where it should since the base of the cap has been ground off.
The starter motor came from somewhere and I know not where. My starter motor makes a sound unlike any other DeLoreans with the original equipment.
A small steel sleeve was added around the crankshaft because the front main seal wasn’t making a perfect seal and oil was slowly escaping and being thrown around by the main pulley wheel.
The spark plug wires and spark plugs with the single electrode are the same that everyone uses in their original equipment 2.8 liter engine.
The v-shaped timing chain cover is from the original DeLorean 2.8 liter engine and it was leaking oil many years after the transformation so my friends at DMC Northwest removed it and resealed it.
I always, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS had premature detonation, pinging, knocking especially during the hottest days of summer. And I ALWAYS used 92-octane fuel from either Chevron, Texaco, 76, Shell. An additive from Red Line called Complete Fuel System Cleaner always helped a little. The approximate compression ratio is now 10.1 to 1 thus requiring premium unleaded all day every day.

Fast forward to September 2013.
After all those years I finally had an engine overheat condition and continued to add coolant while I drove the DeLorean to work. I made an appointment with DMC Northwest and limped there early in the morning of course while overheating in traffic. I would pull over rest a while then add more coolant then keep on driving.
It was found the head gasket was allowing coolant into cylinder number 3 and washing the cylinder out real good!!! The top of the piston inside cylinder number 3 was like brand new. DMC Northwest had to remove both heads and have them checked by another shop for any warping or cracking. Fortunately for me there was no warping or cracking found.
Then they found that the sprocket on the end of the camshaft for cylinders 1,2,3 was incorrect.
It was impossible to properly time the engine when both the left and right banks of valves were not opening and closing at the proper time!!!
No wonder I ALWAYS had premature detonation, pinging, knocking especially during the hottest days of summer.
DMC Northwest did some research and came up with a better sprocket for the camshaft over cylinders 1,2,3. And, now the pinging is virtually gone.

Fast forward to October 2013.
OOPS THE ENGINE OVERHEATED AGAIN and I limped into DMC Northwest and paid the bill for their service on November 4, 2013.
This time it was coolant found in the oil pan.
The engine had to be raised slightly to remove the oil pan to locate the leaking source.
The source confirmed to be leaking cylinder liner base seals, particularly #3, but #1 and #2 to a lesser extent.
Next the head for cylinders 1,2,3 had to be removed again. And, the pistons, connecting rods and cylinder liners 1,2,3 had to be removed from the engine block to install brand new cylinder liner base seals. The original base seals were pitted and corroded so no wonder they couldn’t provide a good seal. The base seals are steel by the way.

I got so sick of these very expensive engine repairs that I finally bought another vehicle as a daily driver in January 2014. I still have the D though and it runs just fine.

[Barney10186]

monaco.jpgwow what an interesting combo of stuff eh? welp i picked up a 1991 dodge monaco today with 123k for 375$. runs great! drove it home. so im gonna get into it one day here. kinda hate to dismantle it cuz the car actually is a good car. ac works n all! has anyone tried to use the oddfire 2.8 crank with the odd setup on a 3.0 block?

[NightFlyer]

kinda hate to dismantle it cuz the car actually is a good car.

They were really nice cars for what they were.

And that's a really solid/good looking Monaco for $375!