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Thread: 3.0l bottom end/2.8 heads and valvetrain question

  1. #41
    Senior Member
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    My VIN:    04194: 5-Speed, Black Int, 79 Peugeot 604 Manifold, 05052: 5-Speed, Gray Int, 78 Peugeot 604 manifol

    What Head Gaskets to Use on 3.0 engine with 2.8 heads?

    Now that I have finally completed the 403 swap on my 1985 Toronado, I have an empty engine stand which will soon be fitted with a 3.0 sourced from a 1989 Eagle Premier. With the helpful information from Bill and Farrar and a little additional research, I have confirmed that the valve timing difference between the odd-fire 2.8 PRV and the even-fire 3.0 PRV is the result of the timing chain that runs the fuel pump side cylinder head. (For the sake of simplicity of left / right references between rear engine Delorean as opposed to front engine Eagle, I will simply refer to the sides of the engine in terms of distributor side and mechanical fuel pump side.) Specifically, the Eagle engine uses the same timing chain as every odd fire PRV for the distributor side cylinder head. In contrast, the Eagle uses an Eagle specific chain for the fuel pump side! The reference points on the gears and the cams are the same. Even the procedure for setting the timing chains is the same between the Eagle shop manual and the DeLorean shop manual, the difference comes down to the reference timing links on the Eagle's center timing chain which runs the cam on the fuel pump side of the engine.

    With regard to spark, I have opted to borrow Bill and Farrar's use of a cut-down AMC 4.2 distributor with a timing gear grafted from a stock DeLorean distributor.

    In regard to fuel, I'm planning to utilize a fuel delivery system that has been successfully used by Alpine A310 tuners which consists of a Peugeot / Renault Alpine manifold modified to accept a Holley 390 4bbl carb.

    However, since the 2.8 and the 3.0 use different head gaskets, this begs the question of what head gaskets to use when mating the 2.8 heads to the 3.0 block???

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

    Andrew
    4194
    5052
    Andrew
    4194 Since 7/98
    5052 Since 7/14

    1972 Buick Riviera
    1974 Bricklin SV-1 177
    1982 AMC Eagle SX/4 (4.2 I6, 4 Speed)
    1983 Pontiac Trans Am (Knight Rider Conversion in progress)
    1985 Oldsmobile Toronado (daily driver)

    Solex carb and antenna television guru.

    "My carbon footprint is bigger than yours!" :-)

  2. #42
    Senior Member vwdmc16's Avatar
    Join Date:  May 2011

    Location:  sacramento

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    The cylinders are larger inside diameter on the 3.0. Smaller on the 2.85. Id say use the headgasket that corresponds with what CYLINDERS you are using.

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date:  Mar 2014

    Location:  Lansing, MI

    Posts:    436

    My VIN:    04194: 5-Speed, Black Int, 79 Peugeot 604 Manifold, 05052: 5-Speed, Gray Int, 78 Peugeot 604 manifol

    Quote Originally Posted by vwdmc16 View Post
    The cylinders are larger inside diameter on the 3.0. Smaller on the 2.85. Id say use the headgasket that corresponds with what CYLINDERS you are using.
    Thanks! That's what I was thinking!
    Andrew
    4194 Since 7/98
    5052 Since 7/14

    1972 Buick Riviera
    1974 Bricklin SV-1 177
    1982 AMC Eagle SX/4 (4.2 I6, 4 Speed)
    1983 Pontiac Trans Am (Knight Rider Conversion in progress)
    1985 Oldsmobile Toronado (daily driver)

    Solex carb and antenna television guru.

    "My carbon footprint is bigger than yours!" :-)

  4. #44
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jul 2011

    Location:  Florida: Pinellas County

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    My VIN:    5003

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    Best I can suggest absent any other advice is to take the gasket, set it on the block and see if there are any holes that need to be enlarged etc. If you get a block with some good 3.0 heads, let me know, I'd buy them off you.
    -----Dan B.

  5. #45
    Junior Member
    Join Date:  Aug 2018

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    crankshaft position sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Ill just relay the PM to this thread for future reference:

    This is basically as everyone assumes going into a 3.0 swap haha. There is one issue and its is a big one... The crankshaft position sensor. It reads off a large ring mounted to the flexplate and is mounted to the eagle bellhousing. You will be removing both. Steve S (protodelorean) tried to weld this trigger wheel to his flywheel and cut a hole in the delorean bellhousing and mounted the CPS and he could not get it to fire. I asked him about this at DCS, as it is documented in his blog and he said he never measured so many times or double triple quadroople checked anything so much... like he went all out trying to line this sensor and trigger wheel up. And still no dice. So I didnt even bother. He had a full car as well.

    If you did get it running you would be limited with upgrades. You could not tune for cams, porting, exhaust, intake, etc... Upgrading these things would probably lose you power as the computer would try to compensate and without remapping the spark and fuel maps it would run pretty bad. There would be no way to do any tuning to the eagle computer.
    I posted a couple days ago " CA smog legal 3.0 motor swap" I was required to use the premier computer to drive the fuel injection, spark, EGR etc. I built a wheel out of an old cam timing disc I had laying around and welded it to the back of the crank pulley. Mounted the trigger on a small aluminum plate below it. Runs great. Important: wrap a bare wire aroundWP_20180830_006.jpg the trigger wire the full length and ground it, use it as a drain, it fixed a slight random missfire

  6. #46
    EFI'd dn010's Avatar
    Join Date:  Jul 2011

    Location:  Florida: Pinellas County

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    Andrew is planning to go carb with his 3.0.

    As far as your trigger wire, if you use a shielded wire you'll have 0 problems.

    https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...0-gauge-10-39/
    Last edited by dn010; 09-06-2018 at 10:41 AM.
    -----Dan B.

  7. #47
    '82 T3 Turbo FABombjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Hudson View Post
    Important: wrap a bare wire aroundWP_20180830_006.jpg the trigger wire the full length and ground it, use it as a drain, it fixed a slight random missfire
    That must have been fun to track down!

    I had a similar issue (misfire/sync error due to false crank tooth detection). Used this stuff:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BIBQ940/

    Since it's woven, you can expand it out (like a finger trap) to pass over connectors without disassembly, then cinch it back tight, tape the ends, and tie to ground.
    Luke S :: 10270 :: 82 Grey 5-Speed :: Single Watercooled T3 .60/.48 :: Borla Exhaust :: MSD Ignition :: MS3X Fully SFI Odd-fire EFI :: DevilsOwn Methanol Injection

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  8. #48
    Junior Member
    Join Date:  Aug 2018

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    Quote Originally Posted by FABombjoy View Post
    That must have been fun to track down!

    I had a similar issue (misfire/sync error due to false crank tooth detection). Used this stuff:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BIBQ940/

    Since it's woven, you can expand it out (like a finger trap) to pass over connectors without disassembly, then cinch it back tight, tape the ends, and tie to ground.
    I used the stock premier trigger wire and trigger which I assume is shielded, i didn't cut it open to see. I don't believe the shield as it was was completing a circuit so I wrapped 18 ga solid bare wire around the entire length and grounded both ends so it could drain any cross signals conflicting with the trigger. the only other thing I did at the time was align the reluctor tabs so they hit dead center of the trigger. I have to admit that either one could have been my salvation, I hate misses.

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