How do project cars get in their condition?

[Rich_NYS]

Somewhat of a spinoff from the "What do you know about your car's PO" thread...

My daughter was sitting with me as I was looking at a few different threads of newly-purchased DeLoreans and asked: "why don't people take better care of their DeLoreans?" I really had to think to come up with a good answer because most of what I see on project cars is a list of different issues, not just one or two things explained by a single event (except for the flood cars.)

When I bought my car, it had a variety of issues:

-Headlight not working
-Overheats
-Dent in fender
-Axle seal leak
-Cracked dash & binnacle
-Torn seats
-Windows didn't work
-Fuel leak
-Exhaust manifold gasket leak
-Door struts not working

Etc, etc.....


My answer was that maybe things on the car start failing, but life gets in the way and/or the owner isn't able to afford the repairs. Owners really love their cars so they keep them, but things continue to go wrong and they finally have to sell it. That's what I think has happened to create a lot of the project cars out there....what do you think?

[Citizen]

My answer was that maybe things on the car start failing, but life gets in the way ... [SNIP] ...what do you think?

This is what I think too.

I have hardly driven my car in the last few years, but no less than once per week (not because I didn't want to, family responsibilities took priority). And the car is garaged 100% of the time when not being driven. But still, I am amazed at how many things go wrong:

Clutch line needed bleeding,
Fuel pump failure,
Fuel line failure,
Drivers window came off track,
Window switch failure,
One tire developed a slow leak.

And that's just the last year or so.

But, on the other hand, even driven so little, the car starts right up, first-time, every-time, hot or cold. And it never over-heats even in brutal Texas summers. So, all things considered, I can't be too unhappy with that.

Thomas

...

[DMCVegas]

I continually wondered that with my own car for years. And then I found the answer when it happened to me.

As with the previous thread, all I know is that the PO died and the family, the son in charge of the family trust in particular, did not care for the car. I do know that it had a Volvo pulley and instant gasket instead of O-Rings on the intake manifold and heads, so it must have overheated at one point in the past. So perhaps they had trouble with it as well.

Now I learned car repair on my DeLorean. My father before he passed had commented that he wished for me to have a used car to work on to learn auto repairs so that I wouldn't be cheated by any mechanic. Years later I got the DeLorean, and my father's wishes caught up with me. Caught up with a vengeance in this case.

Between neglect after the PO died and the sloppy work of mechanics combined with their lies as to what was and wasn't actually fixed on the car, I ended up overheating the engine 8 times. 4 times because the alternator blades were bent so that they flexed outward and cut the alternator belt and stopped the pump from working. 1 time when the right hose burst because the alternator belts had cut into it. 1 time when the left water pump bypass hose split even though I was told it would be replaced. 1 time when the otterstat popped-out. 7 times. And then came the final time I replaced the water pump, bypass hoses, Y-pipe O-rings and rear hoses. Everything went fine until I discovered that the brand-new pump was already weeping. So I had the vendor ship out another. And in my rush of trying to get the new pump on, I failed to properly bleed the system the 2nd time around.

The PRV engine is a tough little engine that can stand lots of abuse. But it finally gave up the ghost with it's head gasket that blew. I was blowing out about a half-gallon of coolant every 5-6 days (I've always kept my car as a daily driver). At this point I now wound up with 4 vehicles, and decided to park the DeLorean. I saved up to replace the head gaskets, but had a job offer that took me out of state and had to spend the money on that. 6 months later, the fuel pump seized. Then between marriage, and moving cross-country 3 MORE times, I just didn't have the time for it. My repair efforts had to be focused on the other vehicles to keep them running.

Once you park a vehicle, ANY vehicle, it all starts to go to hell. In this case it started with the fuel pump seizing. Then because I didn't drive it, the fuel system gummed up. The low milage tires are rotten. Who knows what kind of rust is in the engine now. Luckily it's still in the desert as we speak, but if it were here, who knows what the chassis would have ended up like. Then you've got seals that go out. Rubber that rots. And things build up.

Now that's not to say that it's all a "use it or loose it proposition". Yes, lots of damage has long since occurred. Somethings may not have needed replacement if I had kept the car running, such as the fuel distributor. But other things like tires and brake pads, and fluids, etc… Those would have needed replacement eventually, sure. But rather than being spread out over years, they ALL must be done at once. And when the maintenance isn't spread out, neither is the cost. So the financial impact becomes greater over time, and then it becomes even more challenging and depressing.

I'm hoping to get it back up and running within the next two years. Unlike some people, I actually have a supportive wife too. So it's not like I have anyone to blame. She wants the car to run again. Not just because it makes me happy, but because another running vehicle is just a practical idea.

I grew up seeing cool old, derelict cars sitting in driveways and resenting the owners for not bothering to fix them up. Turns out I became *that* guy. The one with the car that doesn't do anything with it. Oh, but I will "someday".

It's depressing as all get out. But I now understand the why's and why not's of how POs let their cars become the way they are. It's different for some, but I know what it's been like and what it's done to me.

[Rich]

I continually wondered that with my own car for years. And then I found the answer when it happened to me.

Once you park a vehicle, ANY vehicle, it all starts to go to hell. In this case it started with the fuel pump seizing. Then because I didn't drive it, the fuel system gummed up. The low milage tires are rotten. Who knows what kind of rust is in the engine now. Luckily it's still in the desert as we speak, but if it were here, who knows what the chassis would have ended up like. Then you've got seals that go out. Rubber that rots. And things build up.

I grew up seeing cool old, derelict cars sitting in driveways and resenting the owners for not bothering to fix them up. Turns out I became *that* guy. The one with the car that doesn't do anything with it. Oh, but I will "someday".

+1

It can happen to any car. The fact that DeLoreans tended to be used as GT/sports cars for weekend jaunts or just for fun meant that keeping them in good repair was a bit more optional for lots of owners than it might have been with a more mainstream-use car. There are plenty of derelict Jensen-Healeys, Lancias, Bricklins, Lotuses and other such "projects" that are out there rotting away for the same reason. Another reason is that after 10-20+ years the parts supply for many off those cars goes bad. Less so for MGs, Jags, MBZ, Bimmers and Porsches.

Given the very decent DeLorean spares situation, the car's body panel interchangeability plus the availability of newly-manufactured parts (e.g., windshield, binnacle, front fascia to name a few) there is a good chance for many "project" D's to come back to life in some form. And the ones that can't are often good donors.

Good luck to Peter the new "Project" Manager in NZ. And thanks for starting this thread, Rich. It's a good question.

[Kenny_Z]

I parked my Mustang a year ago to take care of replacing the floors. I cut out the driver's floor and started to get the new one fit. Then we got the coldest winter in 20 years. Then it rained for months on end. I don't have a garage so my poor car was forced to just sit there until the weather cooperated. The tires were poor when I parked her but now they are shot. So now I have to replace the tires but I don't want to use my old rims so I have to get a set of those too. But I want to put my front discs on before I get new rims so I can be sure they will fit. But before I can put her on the jacks I have to finish my floors. To finish my floors I need the weather to stop being nice when I work and crappy on my days off. And now I have a Monte Carlo to repair thanks to a guy and a cell phone. It's no wonder my Nova has been a project car for the passed decade.

[DMCVegas]

It can happen to any car.

Precisely! ALL vehicles will have those consumable parts that will go bad, like hoses and rubber components. Normally their replacement is a gradual process, but with an abandoned car that you're trying to get back onto the road you have to replace them all at once. Deferred maintenance is just that; a one list of items that need service and replacement that instead of resolving in a gradual schedule you put off until it all comes due at once.

Different vehicles too will have varying degrees of damage though that can add up to catastrophic repairs and high restoration bills depending upon their most sensitive systems. With the DeLorean, the biggest problem will be your fuel system for example. K-Jetronic as I've oft stated is a good, reliable system. But it takes a little bit of skill and understanding to troubleshoot and work on because of the amount of components involved. Rebuilding K-Jetronic may not be the cheapest of repairs, but compare that with a Rolls Royce, Jaguar, or many other Brit cars with hydraulic systems that use Hydraulic System Mineral Oil or other unconventional fluids and/or hydraulic configurations. Jags can have their steering and rear suspension, as well as brakes on some models all combined into the same system. Then you have the accidental mechanic. Like with Rolls Royce if you pour in DOT 3 instead of the proper braking fluid, you can start to have leaks and cause more damage that could have been avoided. Or even a DeLorean when someone doesn't know the proper bleeding procedure for the cooling system...

There are many different reasons and ways that cars deteriorate and wind up as basket cases in "Project Car" condition. But I can almost guarantee you that once they hit that status they stay that way for the same reason among the owners. You don't think it could happen to you, but I promise it absolutely can.

[JRNY13]

About what year did DMCH start selling their inventory of parts?

[Dangermouse]

1996 I think

[DMCVegas]

DMCH has been in business since the mid 90's or so, but didn't acquire the KAPAC inventory they have now until 1997. Construction of DMCH's current headquarters was delayed because of weather, and didn't open until about 2002 or so if I remember correctly? Something like over 50 truckloads of parts had to be shipped down from Ohio, and then there was the whole story about how a then employee who was in a hurry to go to lunch tipped a bin over with a forklift dumping the contents. That's when the missing parts first revealed themselves.

[David T]

DMCH has been in business since the mid 90's or so, but didn't acquire the KAPAC inventory they have now until 1997. Construction of DMCH's current headquarters was delayed because of weather, and didn't open until about 2002 or so if I remember correctly? Something like over 50 truckloads of parts had to be shipped down from Ohio, and then there was the whole story about how a then employee who was in a hurry to go to lunch tipped a bin over with a forklift dumping the contents. That's when the missing parts first revealed themselves.

The way I see it a car (any car) starts getting neglected and the maintenance is not kept up. The car starts to look like sh-t. Then, one day, it won't run. The car sits and starts to deteriorate. Maybe the owner dies and no one cares about the car. Maybe the owner gets sick. Since the car still looks good (the S/S looks good forever) it always seems like it could be fixed easily and the car is worth a fortune since it is SO rare. Anyone seeing it and making offers insults the owner since they have no idea what it is really worth and they think it is worth WAY more than it really is. Eventually, one day, someone inherits it, or they have to sell the house, or maybe complaints from the town and neighbors forces them to consider selling it. THIS is when you have to be there with cash in hand since they will take almost anything to get rid of it. By this time though it is a mess. The frame is rotten, maybe a tree fell on it, windows broken, sun damage, maybe it got flooded, EVERYTHING needs to be done. It is barely more than a parts car.