Anti-Theft / Door Popper Solutions

[DMCVegas]

I've found something that sort of suits your needs.

http://bluewiremotorsport.com/produc...e-start-system

I seriously should stop walking away and finishing replies later. It's throwing everything out of sync...

It looks like it's labeled as a brand known as SPY, and only appears to be available in non-US countries. I'm also trying to figure out just how in the world it's supposed to connect to a network to report back it's GPS to a phone. Is it cellular?

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/118...car_alarm.html

The interesting parts about this though are that aside from being only about $125 wholesale from China with a markup to over €399, a quick search came up with tons and tons of schematics for the unit. So it looks like it has some decent aftermarket support, which is a good selling point.

Viper appears to have a similar service offering, though I'm not to keen on it. It's not the subscription price, so much as the fact that my car can apparently update my Facebook status as to where I'm parked. Because nothing is better for car security than to tell the world where your exotic car will be left alone and unattended for an extended period of time.

[Shep]

I'VE GOT IT!

I've totally, totally, GOT IT! Custom one-off circuitry can accomplish this easily! It'll utilize the beauty of a system known as Android NFC (Near-Field Communications). Using a custom 3D-printed case for my phone, I can rig up a circuit that works as the go-between, reading the NFC signal to decipher what the intent is, and if it's applicable, sending a signal via RF, exactly as the keyfob does!

Just a breakdown of how it'll work:
1) NFC signal stays on steady enough to "wake up" the receiver
2) Once receiver wakes up, on-board cell battery starts powering the circuit
3) Phone sends specialized signal indicating what the intent is to the circuitry
4) Circuitry deciphers and transmits signal
5) Any further two-way RF action is done and powered by the cell battery
6) Once done, circuitry disconnects cell battery and ceases to draw power from it

Now I've just gotta figure out the particulars, but holy shenanigans I'm SO glad I had this revelation last night!!! And the best part? The only programming necessary by the Wings-A-Loft setup is for an additional keyfob. Man alive, why didn't I think of this sooner???

[Nicholas R]

How much bigger is this going to make your phone? Will it work with all the phones you own for the life of your car?

[Shep]

How much bigger is this going to make your phone? Will it work with all the phones you own for the life of your car?

Considering I'm planning on getting a Galaxy S4, not very. The electronics will hopefully last as long as the Wings-A-Loft lasts, but the case they're in will vary every two years as I get a new phone. Worst case scenario a phone I get doesn't have NFC and I use a new protocol to communicate with it. Either way, I'm an Android guy through-and-through, and have already made about 10 apps for it, so that's the least of my concerns. The biggest concern is hooking up to the NFC somehow.

[Exolis]

So it seems the general thought is a Smartphone (Open source for the most part, along with recently hacked iCloud) is more secured then Smart Keys? Sure there's an article about a poorly documented case of someone able to open one, but if it was so simple to do it should make one wonder why the millions of vehicles with Smart keys are more commonly stolen.

Technology is phone and all, but be careful what you are doing first. I'm sure plenty of people thought iCloud was safe for them to back up their files until recent since Apple is known for their high security measures.

As for the other methods of RF, be it BT, WiFi or GSM the nature of it will all work the same as a smart key. The module in the car will have to constantly pull for a signal, so whatever module is pulling, it's going to be on all the time. I don't know specifically for BT, WiFi, and GSM, but suppliers who make Smart key modules already have it down and designed to work well in vehicles and only pull about 2-3 mA when the vehicle is asleep.

Anyways, good luck to you on the project.

[Shep]

So it seems the general thought is a Smartphone (Open source for the most part, along with recently hacked iCloud) is more secured then Smart Keys?

I hate to burst your bubble, but in addition to comparing apples to oranges here, I'm making my own circuitry for this. The smartphone sends the signal to said circuitry via NFC (which is extremely secure as the range is only an inch or two at most -- good luck "hacking" it from two feet away even), which in turn then does the transmitting. Smartphone security is irrelevant, and I'm not sure what brought that up.

if it was so simple to do it

Now you're creating arguments no one had in the first place -- whoever said this was "simple"? DMC NW told me the install time for a Deluxe was 12 hours by a trained professional, and that's for a system that's already been developed etc. I never said "easy" was even part of the equation.

Technology is phone and all, but be careful what you are doing first. I'm sure plenty of people thought iCloud was safe for them to back up their files until recent since Apple is known for their high security measures.

More creating arguments no one had that are quite frankly irrelevant. (Also, underlined part desperately needs numerous citations, this isn't an inherent truth like you're trying to portray it as).

As for the other methods of RF, be it BT, WiFi or GSM the nature of it will all work the same as a smart key. The module in the car will have to constantly pull for a signal, so whatever module is pulling, it's going to be on all the time.

This is not accurate nor true. Do you know how Smartkey works? Generally speaking, it only checks for a signal upon a physical event. Case in point: when you touch the driver's door handle, it triggers a check for a nearby smart key and reads the value from it. That's how RFID works, which is essentially what this is. I don't know how or why you're linking RF into this, but they're completely different protocols.


I'm just going to ask an honest question here: are you purposely trying to start something, or is your post intended to actually help? Right now it seems like the former rather than the latter...

[Exolis]

I hate to burst your bubble, but in addition to comparing apples to oranges here, I'm making my own circuitry for this. The smartphone sends the signal to said circuitry via NFC (which is extremely secure as the range is only an inch or two at most -- good luck "hacking" it from two feet away even), which in turn then does the transmitting. Smartphone security is irrelevant, and I'm not sure what brought that up.

Now you're creating arguments no one had in the first place -- whoever said this was "simple"? DMC NW told me the install time for a Deluxe was 12 hours by a trained professional, and that's for a system that's already been developed etc. I never said "easy" was even part of the equation.

More creating arguments no one had that are quite frankly irrelevant. (Also, underlined part desperately needs numerous citations, this isn't an inherent truth like you're trying to portray it as).

This is not accurate nor true. Do you know how Smartkey works? Generally speaking, it only checks for a signal upon a physical event. Case in point: when you touch the driver's door handle, it triggers a check for a nearby smart key and reads the value from it. That's how RFID works, which is essentially what this is. I don't know how or why you're linking RF into this, but they're completely different protocols.


I'm just going to ask an honest question here: are you purposely trying to start something, or is your post intended to actually help? Right now it seems like the former rather than the latter...

Sorry. No, not trying to start anything. Simply trying to help from the perspective of an Elec Eng that works at an Automotive OEM, on Body Electronics.

I don't quiet follow your process of your circuirty.

The simple part was in reference to the hacking article that you referenced earlier. The way the article is written, they made it out that it is simple to hack.

Why yes, I do know quiet a bit about Smart Keys, I work with the experts on it and know a fair bit about the systems myself. A very small portion of my job is to make sure what is drawing current and how much when the vehicle is asleep. It's a bit more complex then a Badge ID. In short, the vehicle needs to know if the key is in the vehicle or not, so it constantly pulls data (it's only small spikes of current). You might think it's a dumb idea, but has a lot of good reasons for it and probably couldn't work without it. If you have capacitive touch handle yes, but doors also has a button so same function, and yes it does check at that point which then wakes the vehicle up.

As for the Apple comment, there is quite a bit of difference between Android and Apple. iirc, to get an App on Apple's app store, it has to be checked and approved by them, along with having other security measures. Android on the other hand is more open source, so if the user is not careful, they can end up downloading something bad.

Anyways, sorry to bother.

[Shep]

Either way, we're getting off track here (and your "Apple vs. Android" points could be a 100-page thread in and of itself, which I'm opting to avoid instead of start), so let me post the latest in the email chains I've received:

- Viper claims to have a cheaper alternative that utilizes bluetooth and is limited to 30-100 feet, i.e. class 2 standard. Here's the problem: all it does is Anti-Theft, no accessory stuff or nothing. As stated previously, I can (and have) built bluetooth relay devices using class 2 adapters, so this is pointless to me. Worse yet, it's 100 feet from my car to my building. I need more range, which they cannot provide. So that's out entirely. Not to mention the dealer I spoke to hasn't a clue how to run a business, but that's beside the point.

- DMC NW made it clear that they do not want to hassling CompuStar with regards to reverse-engineering their hardware. Although I find this unprompted, it was NOT uncalled for since they do have to cover their legal bases. I charted a wee bit too far into dangerous territory in their opinion, so they opted to go the "disclaimer: don't involve us" route, which is fine. In my response, I wrote back in my own words (i.e. not theirs) that "I'm looking for a middle-ground that currently doesn't exist", so I inquired about just getting the actuators and nothing more. Rigging it up will be my fun little side project.

- Got a PM from another owner that said DMC CA used to do this about a decade and a half ago, door poppers and all. I do not know any details of the exact specifications, but I will say that it comes from the "pre-smartphone" era, so that'll get me about as far as the Wings-A-Loft route. Either way, those looking for an alternative might want to get in touch with Danny from DMC CA since he was involved with it at the time. Not a clue if they would even consider poking around for another run or not considering DMC NW is a sister branch that has engineered basically the same thing, so don't hold me to my word on that one

So this will definitely be a custom one-off system. Anyone else that wants to do something similar can shoot me a PM or an email if they want details to my install, but that being said, I'm not giving a full-fledged tutorial on how to rip off Wings-A-Loft.

[DMCVegas]

- Got a PM from another owner that said DMC CA used to do this about a decade and a half ago, door poppers and all.

That's the same time as my system was installed by DMC GG (DMC CA is the modern Houston affiliate/shop, DMC GG was the precursor of DeLorean Motor Center of Garden Grove that was started by the two Dons and evolved into what is now knows as DMC CA, but is firmly of the Don Steger era when called as such). I've seen the cars with the door kickers (poppers, launchers, or whatever you choose to call them) that Don installed. I don't know if Don started installing the secondary solenoids again, but when I asked him he said that he stopped installing them since they were not needed. He just would click the torsion bar one-extra notch. So the VPA system that I described to you in my car and sent the link on is the exact same system that the other owner is referencing.

[wrkey]

So.. if you use a smart phone to drive the system... perhaps you can also load it with the Google Maps and the Fluc Capacitor apps and then mount the phone where it is visiable by the drive.

Thus you get the popper, security (calls you when a break in occurs), a GPS and the time travel capability!!!!!!

Oh.. and perhaps it could make the 'pppssshhhhhhh' noise when the door opens too!!!!


Just a few suggestions!