Auto transmission

[DeLorean03]

sounds like upgrading the auto transmission isn't worth the time and effort put into it...

We'll see about that....

I remember someone told Eddie he couldn't fit a 2jz engine into a DeLorean too. Then this happened:

enginebay001.jpg

Eddie loves a challenge. We are in our extremely EARLY stages of investigating on how to upgrade the stock transmission. I never said "We are going with a Porsche." All I said was: "Psh, if I'm going to spend nearly $6000 on a stock auto, might as well spend some more $$$ and get a transmission that can handle the abuse."

To be honest, our transmission upgrades will not be discussed until we have our plan in motion and ready to roll (read: another year from now). At this point though, we're going auto. Because once that weak link is removed, there won't be much holding us back.

Of course, everything is tentative, but Eddie never disappoints. When he says he's going to do it - you can bet the farm it's going to happen.

[David T]

Good to know. I picked up the full set of specialty tools for rebuilding the automatics and manuals, but I won't go anywhere near an automatic. Manuals on the other hand...




These differences between the UN1 in the Esprit V8 and the 369 in the DeLorean aren't nearly as big as people act though. Internally, truly there are only 2 differences. First is the double tapered roller bearing on the input shaft, second is the 5th gear oiling grooves in the 5th gear cover. The 3rd/4th sliding coupler has different style detent springs but that makes little difference. The only other difference is gear ratio differences (which are still pretty similar). You can go to Lotus Talk and read all you want about the UN1. They hold up pretty well, even when you increase the output. Sure, they'll fail every now and then, but usually it's from a really bad hard shift into 5th under wide open throttle.

There are also differences in the type of metal used for some of the gears and the heat treat. The parts are then hand paired and precision matched. The clutch is a twin plate affair, VERY expensive. Magic fluid is also recommended but no longer available. No complaints about the nuts coming loose and chewing the end cover though. The rumor is the ECU has limits built into it to detune the motor so the transmission can last at least past the warranty period. Most of the hotter chips for the ECU have reduced or removed these limits.

[TTait]

Anyways I was prob going to sell it, but not sure what it's worth. Anyone?

Thanks

As its a heavy piece to ship, a big part of the value is if you can find a local buyer. You will be able to sell it easier to someone who only has to drive 30 miles, hand you some cash, and get your help loading it into his pickup.

Where is this transmission - Los Angeles (based on the DMCCA reference)?

[Citizen]

I remember someone told Eddie he couldn't fit a 2jz engine into a DeLorean too. Then this happened:
enginebay001.jpg

Toyota 24-valve DOHC engine, eh? Would you happen to have the VIN of Eddie's car? For the record book, of course.

Thomas

...

[Nicholas R]

I've got DPI Camshafts, a SPEC I cat-delete exhaust, a few other mods and a whole lot of tweaking to get maximum HP out of it all. Been at that level since the restoration, but the transmission is the stock weak link.

Is that everything? Are your heads stock? What kind of HP/torque are you making? DeLorean03s car is making ~210hp/240ftlbs at the wheels through the automatic transmission with no problem. It's that torque that's the real deal.

There are also differences in the type of metal used for some of the gears and the heat treat. The parts are then hand paired and precision matched. The clutch is a twin plate affair, VERY expensive. Magic fluid is also recommended but no longer available. No complaints about the nuts coming loose and chewing the end cover though. The rumor is the ECU has limits built into it to detune the motor so the transmission can last at least past the warranty period. Most of the hotter chips for the ECU have reduced or removed these limits.

Magic Fluid??

Production gears and gear shafts are hobbed, case hardened, and ground. That's about it. There not an inspector that is comparing the tooth profiles of every gear and matching them to their counterparts. If you're sure that the materials are different, I'd really like to know what the 369 main shaft material is compared to the UN1-026/27 material is. Do you have something that documents that?

I've got a lot of documentation on 367s, 369s (including 369-1 and 369-2), UN1s (the full series from UN1 to UN1-03 all the way to UN1-028s), and UN5s. The differences are small to say the least. The most notable difference is probably small differences in the castings, and the different bellhousing.

EDIT: I will say that it does bum me out a little that the 369 is only a 2 spider differential instead of a 4 spider diff like the later UN1s.

[David T]

All I have to fall back on is hearsay and rumors. Lotus never releases all of it's proprietary information except to say you can't source their parts out of other company's cross/overs. I have spoken to Lotus techs and Field service advisers too. As an example, in the Elise and Exige they use a Toyota motor. The company line is you can't just order Toyota parts because Lotus hand-picks and matches the parts, does further machining and heat treating and other "magic" to make the parts better. As for the "magic" fluid, the only fluid recommended by Lotus is Castrol TAF-X 75W/90. They never tested anything else. It was never available in the US except through the Lotus parts network. It is no longer available except for old stock. What most use now is Redline MT-90. Seems to be OK. As for the diff, some have spent the bucks to put the Quiffe in. Most say it doesn't improve the handling so much as it changes it. Some say for the better and some say not so much.

[SIMid]

the main hub cracks causing pressure loss. The hub failure is a design flaw

Been down this road ...... $4000 later .....

[Dangermouse]

Toyota 24-valve DOHC engine, eh? Would you happen to have the VIN of Eddie's car? For the record book, of course.

Thomas

...

Really, Thomas?? You of all people don't have this?? I'm shocked!!

Would you like me to come over and help out ?

j/k

it's 10410

http://dmctalk.org/showthread.php?10...DT26T0CD010410

[DMCVegas]

All I have to fall back on is hearsay and rumors. Lotus never releases all of it's proprietary information except to say you can't source their parts out of other company's cross/overs. I have spoken to Lotus techs and Field service advisers too. As an example, in the Elise and Exige they use a Toyota motor. The company line is you can't just order Toyota parts because Lotus hand-picks and matches the parts, does further machining and heat treating and other "magic" to make the parts better. As for the "magic" fluid, the only fluid recommended by Lotus is Castrol TAF-X 75W/90. They never tested anything else. It was never available in the US except through the Lotus parts network. It is no longer available except for old stock. What most use now is Redline MT-90. Seems to be OK. As for the diff, some have spent the bucks to put the Quiffe in. Most say it doesn't improve the handling so much as it changes it. Some say for the better and some say not so much.

I've heard about the fluid too from a few different people. It was supposed to be something that Lotus worked with Renault on as another way to push longevity any way that they could. Now I can tell you that back when my DeLorean was only 20 years old I had the transaxle fluid drained and refilled. Granted 20 years is a long time for oil and things are going to happen to the viscosity. But with the right oil, the gearbox gets nice and slippery and shifts gears with so much less effort. So yeah, the UN-Series of Transaxles is indeed very sensitive to oil.

We'll see about that....

I remember someone told Eddie he couldn't fit a 2jz engine into a DeLorean too. Then this happened:

enginebay001.jpg

That engine swap scares the living hell out of me because of this:



Without that rear crossmember of the chassis in place, who in the holy hell knows HOW that car is going to perform in a rear end collision now. First, that's a whole lotta flex on the back end. Second, and more importantly, in a collision, the chassis is no longer able to protect the engine. It's going to bust it's engine and tranny mounts and take out the drivetrain. Once it's detached, who knows where it's going to end up. But you have to hope that it doesn't penetrate into the passenger cabin.

[Nicholas R]

All I have to fall back on is hearsay and rumors. Lotus never releases all of it's proprietary information except to say you can't source their parts out of other company's cross/overs. I have spoken to Lotus techs and Field service advisers too. As an example, in the Elise and Exige they use a Toyota motor. The company line is you can't just order Toyota parts because Lotus hand-picks and matches the parts, does further machining and heat treating and other "magic" to make the parts better. As for the "magic" fluid, the only fluid recommended by Lotus is Castrol TAF-X 75W/90. They never tested anything else. It was never available in the US except through the Lotus parts network. It is no longer available except for old stock. What most use now is Redline MT-90. Seems to be OK. As for the diff, some have spent the bucks to put the Quiffe in. Most say it doesn't improve the handling so much as it changes it. Some say for the better and some say not so much.

I understand what you're saying; I was just curious if you had anything else. I've run some lab tests on a transmission shaft that I have right now. They're very clearly case hardened, but the material is nothing to write home about, with hobbed gears that are ground post heat treat. I've got a source with a Niton gun which will hopefully be able to tell me exactly what the material is. Truthfully I'm not expecting much more than general purpose alloy steel. I've been curious about the quaife LSD for a while now. It's still on my list. I drove the 2JZ DeLorean once (which is the only DeLorean I know of that has the Quaife LSD installed), however; at the time I wasn't really thinking about the differential so I dont remember whether it made a difference. This was also with wider rear tires so I'm sure that helped.

I've heard about the fluid too from a few different people. It was supposed to be something that Lotus worked with Renault on as another way to push longevity any way that they could. Now I can tell you that back when my DeLorean was only 20 years old I had the transaxle fluid drained and refilled. Granted 20 years is a long time for oil and things are going to happen to the viscosity. But with the right oil, the gearbox gets nice and slippery and shifts gears with so much less effort. So yeah, the UN-Series of Transaxles is indeed very sensitive to oil.

The difficulty with transaxles like ours is that when it comes to the oil, you have to find a balance that serves both the differential and the gear train (mostly the synchronizers) since they're all together. Technically, if the oil gets nice and slippery, you're going to start having trouble shifting because the synchros wont be able to bite the cones of the idler gears, and the sliding gear coupler wont be able to engage the dog teeth. Shifting will be very difficult and you'll grind as you try to engage. Then again, if you use a really thin oil that works well for the synchros and helical gears, you're going to start damaging the differential. The hypoid gears on the crown gear and pinion gear have to be able to slide A LOT. That's how they work. Spur gears dont slide anywhere near as much as hypoid gears. If the oil on the hypoid gears is too thin, you loose your oil barrier, and it is metal on metal. Eventually the gears heat up/cool down/heat up/cool down, work harden, and break/strip.